Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: psy on January 27, 2007, 06:22:32 PM
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This is breaking my heart (http://http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001320)
Yes, she takes meds for the depression, anxiety, etc. so thankfully, she is not self-medicating at this point. She does not bond well with others so no boyfriend issues per se other than the fact that she is dying for love and obsessed with finding it in whatever boy will pay attention to her. I feel that she needs a place that is "good at working with kids who need some help with emotional issues" first and foremost. She will not cooperate here in town with counseling. We have tried and tried. I will check into St. Margaret's nonetheless. I also have an appointment to talk with Big Creek Ranch in Arkansas. Thank you for your insight.
Psy- She needs more help (emotionally) than she allows here. It's time for an intervention so to speak even though there are no obvious outward signs of total destruction. i.c. drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. Her issues run deep. I feel that it is more important to help with those than move head on into college, even though she is college material. Thanks for your help.
No problems to speak of, but the woman still thinks her kid needs an EGBS. I don't know what i can say to convince her not to do this... I saw so many kids like these at benchmark, and they were systematically destroyed. They were hollowed out...
Also, any information on "Big Creek Ranch" in Arkensas would be appreciated.
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*clicks link* "AAAH!! ST!" *closes window* ST is the new Goatse.
You can't make these tards realize reality, Psy. Did you invite her to Fornits?
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Milk don't call this parent a tard, she/he is desperate because they're child is unhappy, you don't know how terrible that feeling is
I agree tho that if Psy could get her to come over here, even to just read what is being said .........
i'd have to say to this parent, that a child with emmotional issues that are running this deep, needs to be at home, not sent away, if she's finding love wherever, however, the issues begin at home, sending her away is going to make her feel more 'unloved'
Lots of girls find love through opening their legs - sorry to be so blunt, but that's what they think they're doing
being at home, with family who are tirelesly chipping away at her low self esteem and showing she is wanted around will eventually bring her back into the fold, the girl has no self worth, she needs her family to constantly show her they love her no matter what, she will eventually realise she's worth more than that - she will stil sleep around, play about, all the parents can do is advise her & keep her as safe as possible while she carries on like this
The poster says she needs to address these issues rather than worry about college, that's a good sign, let her have a gap year and really work on what's bothering her .... i don't know what else to say, I hope she's reading this, it's a long road, I know, I've walked it, and although I have a long long way to go, my persistence is paying off big time, I actually like my kids and they like me, we are a family again ..... so much can be achieved with baby steps, I will never ever regret my decision not to send my son away, I just KNOW that would have been the end of us as a family and he would have ended up a gibbering wreck (or dead, that's a strong possibility) - it's a really hard thing to do, but no-one said being a parent was easy, some kids just make the job a little tougher than others
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exhausted, maybe you could send her a PM.....
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Group prayer that she answers it people.....
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I pm ed her too
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Curing an unhappy child by sending her to one of these places? :lol: "My child has a stubbed toe. Anyone know where I can get her foot amputated?"
I actually like my kids and they like me, we are a family again
Startled me to read that here, but this is probably the thread that one belongs in. Very glad to hear it.
Look, Lori- are you reading this? Have you checked out the rest of Fornits? Would you like some quotes, or would you rather find them for yourself? Don't take my word for it, I'm an asshole. Surf the rest of this board. Won't take you very long at all before your "Oh my GOD" meter maxes out and you join Exhausted among the ranks of the horrified.
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Anyone who's been in a program know almost all the kids are sent away for bogus or no reason at all. This parent articulates it well, they simply want the kid to dissapear until they turn 18. They want their kid gone a few years earlier.
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I registered but can't post yet(or send pm's?), so I'll ask God to send my message via telekineses
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It's impossible to get an address out of an IP without a subpoena. End of story.
The kid isn't going to get sent away- if ever (and probably not) until June. And even one of the ST regulars is opposing it.
AND I JUST HAD TO READ ST TO GET THAT.
::puke::
Thanks a lot, TSW.
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Also to the daughter... If your mother insists on depriving you of your rights to the pursuit of life liberty and happiness then you ARE empowered to defend those rights.
If you don't have any relatives around you may have to accept that being a ward of the state is better for your short term options.
CALL CPS and tell them whatever it takes to get you out of that house.
DON't let your mom win on this one. Fight back and use the system to protect you.
The state isn't going to protect anyone. It's legal for parents to privaely kidnap their children and have them rendered to private gulags. Until that changes, nobody is going to help these kids before placement.
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Damn, TSW. Having your period today or what? The woman hasn't actually done anything irrevocable yet.
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And even one of the ST regulars is opposing it.
at least publically, behind the scenes there's a group of program moms and dads salivating at the idea of confirming their beliefs with another new member to the cult, and line their pocket with cash.
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their forum sure is slow.. remember when they all came over here and tried to disrupt this forum.. that was hilarious. looks like their forum did not survive the questioning.. sucks for them. :P
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I didnt know people still used AOL.. if you want a program parents information just tell them you have a new shiny program to offer and they will get all googly eyed and tell you whatever you want... paint a utopian picture with words then move in for the sell.. works every time!
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Struggling retards lists the IP numbers at the bottom of each post.
Just in from Whosis:
OrgName: America Online, Inc
OrgID: AMERIC-59
Address: 22080 Pacific Blvd
City: Sterling
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20166
Country: US
+5 FUNNY
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I sent her an email... hopefully the kid can be spared...
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*clicks link* "AAAH!! ST!" *closes window* ST is the new Goatse.
You can't make these tards realize reality, Psy. Did you invite her to Fornits?
hell no i didn't invite her.. I don't think she's the type to listen here...
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If not I hope the kid has the brains to get far away from mumsie as quickly as possible. Might be a good chapter for the TBS Evasion and Survival Guide.
How to escape TBS before you are sent.
Sadly I dont think most of the kids see it coming... or there parents lie and say its a two week summer camp vacation type of experience, I fell for a variant of that bullshit... dont underestimate the kids desire to escape their family, ignorant of the horrors of cult confinement...
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No guests allowed. Will keep things boring and my forum on the bottom of the stack.
Fixed!
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Thanks ! :lol: :P :tup: :tup: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::armed:: :smokin: :wave: :silly: ::nod:: ::hatter:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::read:: ::soapbox:: ::soapbox:: ::rocker:: ::ribbon:: ::ribbon:: ::poke::
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I feel you TSW. Reading stuff like that from parents like that drives me insane.The girl seems absolutely fucking fine to me and this mother wants to ship her off wherever an Ed Con says to ship her off to.;
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If not I hope the kid has the brains to get far away from mumsie as quickly as possible. Might be a good chapter for the TBS Evasion and Survival Guide.
How to escape TBS before you are sent.
Sadly I dont think most of the kids see it coming... or there parents lie and say its a two week summer camp vacation type of experience, I fell for a variant of that bullshit... dont underestimate the kids desire to escape their family, ignorant of the horrors of cult confinement...
Yup.
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guys STOP!!!!!
For crying out loud, do you wnat her to come over here or not?
i am in contact with the mum, you are wrong, she doesn't want to send her daughter away, that is the issue, she doesn't want her to go, she wants to get her help while keeping her at home....she is a confused and desperate mum, she is not stupid, she doesn't know what happens at programs, she only knows how wonderful they are painted to be
Stop the negative vibes and welcome the mum over here, she'll only find out what her options are if she feels comfortable talking about the problem, not everyone's as thickerd skinned as me and will plough on regardless, you're venomous comments aren't going to encourage her to post here or even read further than what she sees in this thread!
use your common sense and help me to help this girl and her family work it out without her ending up dead in some wilderness program
jees you make me so fucking mad sometimes.
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jees you make me so fucking mad sometimes.
The feeling is mutual!!!!!
::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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We Americans used to live by the motto, "Live Free or Die" and we have sadly strayed from that path.
If it were up to our foerign legion here at Fornits, our new motto would be "Do what mommy says, lest make mother cry. "
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Exhausted has a point. If the disagreements on this site were not so vicious and vitriolic we'd win a lot more friend. Give the woman the opportunity to see both sides of the coin and I'll wager she does the right thing.
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we'd
Who is we on this site? The ex program survivors? The foreigners who hate America and everything within it, and exported from it? The ex program parents who think they were duped? The ex program parents who pretend they were duped? The ex program parents who think programs are just dandy and spend their time defending them? The ex program parents who think wwasps/cedu is bad, but don't see anything wrong with wilderness and light programs? The people who just post here for kicks but have no real horse in this race? Who is this "we" that people keep refering to here? Because I just don't see it.
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We are using out common sense. Most of us know how deluded parents can be when it comes to programs. For this reason I am hoping someone can get to this girl and educate her on how to protect herself from the whims of her mother.
More power to the mother if she can be educated. If not then the girl needs to be ready to take the steps needed to prevent her abduction to a program.
Help at any cost must be replaced with Freedom no matter what the price.
We Americans used to live by the motto, "Live Free or Die" and we have sadly strayed from that path. It is time we remember what made our country the greatest nation in the world, and get back to those ideals.
Some people think the parents are the victims in all this, not the kids. Poor parents, all they were trying to do was help their kid. :roll: We've seen the act, ain't buying it, sorry!!!
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Why is it so essential that parents come to this forum to discuss their family problems openly, and most likely get ridiculued (like everyone who posts here including prorgam survivors and anyone else), in front of strangers? Smacks me as somewhat program like, if you know what I mean. We might be used to it but these parents sure aren't, and that is the tone of this entire forum. So it seems very counterproductive to bring parents here and start a thread about them. If it were me, I would be sending email, and having private conversations with these parents... maybe thats something I already do. Maybe its even more effective than these town hall type threads where everyone clears their issues for the day and giving armchair psychology advice to everyone else. Sure, it's fun, but if someone like exhausted is serious... I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Email can do wonders!
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guys STOP!!!!!
Why do you assume its just guys and not gals? :P
For crying out loud, do you wnat her to come over here or not?
Not. What purpose would it serve? So she can be trolled and fucked with endlessly until she figures out what this forum is about, and that people who post here have no patience with ignorant potential program parents? Probably make her more eager to send junior away.
i am in contact with the mum, you are wrong, she doesn't want to send her daughter away,
Well then what is the issue?
that is the issue, she doesn't want her to go, she wants to get her help while keeping her at home....she is a confused and desperate mum, she is not stupid, she doesn't know what happens at programs, she only knows how wonderful they are painted to be
Send her a few links via email to your favorite threads here at fornits describing programs. Send her links to isaac, and all the other websites. There is so much information out there, it would take years to sift through it all. All she has to do is read, we don't need to know anything from her to advise her of the dangers of programs.
Stop the negative vibes
This is a progrma survivor forum mainly where people post about imprisonment, torture, mind rape, abuse, shit like that. The topic is what breeds negative vibes. This isnt a forum about our favorite vacations at Disneyland.
and welcome the mum over here, she'll only find out what her options are if she feels comfortable talking about the problem,
From what she said, the only problem is her own ignorance. That is solved through education and reading. What point is a thread, so all the fornits experts can bash her about what an idiot she is for considering programs? What purpose would that service, come on.
not everyone's as thickerd skinned as me and will plough on regardless,
That's a shame that they take their child's welfare so lightly. They should take more responsibility about who they entrust their loved ones too. I know I do, but then again I've seen what seemingly nice people are capable of behind closed doors.
you're venomous comments aren't going to encourage her to post here or even read further than what she sees in this thread!
Good. Better she doesn't read what is posted here. This is us just bullshitting late on a saturday night about this mother. If you haven't realized this is what happens on fornits on a daily basis, you are never going to figure it out I am afraid. You don't need a group of people trying to convince you that programs are bad, when an entire website is filled with first person tales telling as much, along with dozens of other websites warning the same thing.
use your common sense and help me to help this girl and her family work it out without her ending up dead in some wilderness program
You can save a generic email with two dozen good links, a general write up about the dangers of programs and the alternatives. Then save that file and when you see a potential program parent post on ST or somewhere else, email that to them. That's what I do, and it works fine. I never post parents family problems on this forum (unless I am making fun of them) or tell them to start a thrad here. I hate this forum sometimes because of the tone, and I am a program survivor. I dont think this is the forum to see as an activism forum, or advice forum to bring parents to. I think it's a forum where people who were burned by an insidious and abusive industry congregate because it's the busiest bar so to speak, and the most lively. If you walk into a biker bar wanting to find out why your son joined the local gang, would you expect them to sit down with you and have tea and crumpits and turn down the music? I wouldn't. Take it for what it is, don't assume it's anything more though... it could backfire!
jees you make me so fucking mad sometimes.
That's what I'm here for.
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Why is it so essential that parents come to this forum to discuss their family problems openly, and most likely get ridiculued (like everyone who posts here including prorgam survivors and anyone else), in front of strangers? Smacks me as somewhat program like, if you know what I mean. We might be used to it but these parents sure aren't, and that is the tone of this entire forum. So it seems very counterproductive to bring parents here and start a thread about them. If it were me, I would be sending email, and having private conversations with these parents... maybe thats something I already do. Maybe its even more effective than these town hall type threads where everyone clears their issues for the day and giving armchair psychology advice to everyone else. Sure, it's fun, but if someone like exhausted is serious... I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Email can do wonders!
Something to be said for this and its why I tend to defend parents who are sincere. You have the Karen In Dallas sorts who are total trash and shouldn't be arsed. Karen by the way the woman who would be Queen of Fornits and Struggling Retards has now begun to recant on her previous admissions that Carlbrook isn't quite what she thought it would be. Not that anyone who has experienced her before is at all surprised by this, but it is none the less amusing to see yet another one of her artarded ploys go down in flames.
I try to stay away from giving psychological advice myself given the fact that I am neither a parent or a professional counselor. I have a pretty good idea what won't work.
I agree though that the majority of these conversations are better held via email or instant messenger. The anons can take a toll on parents who are to big of dipshits not to take text on a computer screen seriously. I've never understood how people can take shit printed on an internet forum to heart. You really can't get to know the true nature of a person via online means. To really get to know a person you have to do it face to face. It is for this reason I don't let text bother me. It is also for this reason why I don't really concern myself with parents or anyone for that matter who starts bawling like a baby when someone takes a chomp out of their hide with a few nasty posts.
Really.. If you've that little of a grasp on reality that you can't look at text and laugh about it then you must be a pretty sad person. I feel for your family and your coworkers. Must be hard to be around a person so horridly humorless. Must be hellish to be the child of this sort of person. If a parent let harmless text roll of their back then their kids are truly hosed. and I only see bad things in their future. Bad things from parents who aren't firing with all their mental pistons in the first place.
Very well said, TSW.
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But wrong.
I am not at all recanting anything I said about the program my son attended. I just chose, for obvious reasons, to not share as much of my opinions on this particular forum. I would be glad to reply privately to anyone, and my views on the plusses and negatives of the program were stated quite clearly on ST before I deleted most of my old posts on that forum. I stand by everything I said, and psy, for one, has a good archive of all my posts.
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But wrong.
I am not at all recanting anything I said about the program my son attended. I just chose, for obvious reasons, to not share as much of my opinions on this particular forum. I would be glad to reply privately to anyone, and my views on the plusses and negatives of the program were stated quite clearly on ST before I deleted most of my old posts on that forum. I stand by everything I said, and psy, for one, has a good archive of all my posts.
What's your point?
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Yup yup you're all right in what you're saying, I know that and so do you, but a desperate parent doesn't, she/he/they are in panic, they are about to be convinced their child is going to die unless they remortgage their houses and sell their souls to the devil in order to save their kids' lives
Think about it, what would YOU do if you were that parent.....trust me, I know what i nearly did, Fornits possibly saved my son's life, I'm not kidding, if I hadn't had come here - there's a strong possibility my boy would be in your country or jamaica (there for the grace of God go I) and I'd be happily thinking I'd done him the biggest favour of his lifetime!!
People don't know what happens because the experts tell them it's all good, why wouldn't you trust the expert? Come on! be realistic, I didn't even think to look up wether there was child abuse issues at places like this because in no way would it be allowed to happen in a civilised country right?? Wrong......
If your agenda is to make sure this never happens to another kid, then put your poison away and speak with this mum, show her the way, Christ people you did it for me and my son, why is it so hard to do it for her? The mum in question is not a lazy poisonous retard who can't be bothered to look after her kid, she's scared, she doesn't know what to do, she wants to help, and right now she's being driven straight towards people who will tell her what to do .... what's your agenda? Decide, do you want to help this kid or not? And by helping, I mean helping her to get her ife together without having to run away from her family and live a more miserable existence than she is now - this can only be done through helping mum to know what she could face before making any decisions
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I think we have the same goal in mind, just a different strategy. I am all for telling this parent the horrors of the industry, the truth about ST posters and their pro-program agenda, the tales of abuse and death and torture that occur behind closed doors with the complicit approval of the 'ignorant' crowd... we agree on all that. I just think it's more effective to communicate with these parent privately, rather than trying to publically shame someone into making the "right" decision. Maybe I don't have an agenda, maybe I do... but it certainly does not include becoming a self righteous maniac like the ones I can't get out of my dreams, from my childhood and program experiences. I just can't take that role, but if you can, I am all for it. I am glad you found this forum helpful, but like you said, you seem to be able to handle the tone and pace of this forum more than most parents. A running inside joke with myself is the fact so many of the people posting here that never been in a program/cult don't see how similar their words/behavior/arguments actually are to those of other fundies sometimes. The information is here, but trying to stuff it down the throat of an already shaken parent, what's that going to do? Like you said, everyone here has an agenda. Well, some of those people's agendas is to create chaos and twist and manipulate other people's most intimate experiences for their own pleasure or boredom. Where else do you see that kind of behavior? Mea culpa, because I do it too... a sad reminent of my program days I suppose.
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People don't know what happens because the experts tell them it's all good, why wouldn't you trust the expert? Come on! be realistic, I didn't even think to look up wether there was child abuse issues at places like this because in no way would it be allowed to happen in a civilised country right??
WOW.
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I think we have the same goal in mind, just a different strategy. I am all for telling this parent the horrors of the industry, the truth about ST posters and their pro-program agenda, the tales of abuse and death and torture that occur behind closed doors with the complicit approval of the 'ignorant' crowd... we agree on all that. I just think it's more effective to communicate with these parent privately, rather than trying to publically shame someone into making the "right" decision. Maybe I don't have an agenda, maybe I do... but it certainly does not include becoming a self righteous maniac like the ones I can't get out of my dreams, from my childhood and program experiences. I just can't take that role, but if you can, I am all for it. I am glad you found this forum helpful, but like you said, you seem to be able to handle the tone and pace of this forum more than most parents. A running inside joke with myself is the fact so many of the people posting here that never been in a program/cult don't see how similar their words/behavior/arguments actually are to those of other fundies sometimes. The information is here, but trying to stuff it down the throat of an already shaken parent, what's that going to do? Like you said, everyone here has an agenda. Well, some of those people's agendas is to create chaos and twist and manipulate other people's most intimate experiences for their own pleasure or boredom. Where else do you see that kind of behavior? Mea culpa, because I do it too... a sad reminent of my program days I suppose.
People should learn to keep their agendas in their pants where they belong! ::bwahaha::
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"My child has a stubbed toe. Anyone know where I can get her foot amputated?"
I like your analogy, and sadly, it applies to many parents and not-so-fucked-up-teens that get sucked into programs. These cases are no-brainers.
The tougher cases, though, go something like this: "My child's foot has been amputated. Anyone know where I can go to make sure she doesn't bleed out?" Programs aren't the answer for them either, or for anyone. But answering the question of what to do and who to turn to is a lot tougher.
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But answering the question of what to do and who to turn to is a lot tougher.
I think that's a fallacy of parents when doing their 'research' on programs. I've got emails before basically threatening that if I don't provide some utopian alternative they are going to send their kid to the program I warned them specifically against. Who wants to deal with parents like that? I sure don't, and I feel very sorry for their kids.
There's people who go hiking on cliffs near me, and every year, without fail at least a couple of them fall off and die. There are signs warning against climbing down the cliff. Smart people don't go near the edge and heed the warning. Adventurous people bring proper shoes and experience, as well as good decision making and alertness to prevent injury, going into the experience knowing full well the consequences. Then there's the stupid people, tourists usually, or drunk college students who read the sign, laugh at it and walk on by.
The sign is there. Unless they put up a fence, and ruin the view and hike for the rest of us, there's nothing you can really do. So what do you do, plaster the cliff with signs, put up a fence.. what?
The answers are out there, some parents just don't want to hear them.
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Parents that are IGNORANT enough to send their kids off to these places deserve to DIE at the hands of their own children, case closed.
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It might be better to handle this in private due to some toxic emotions here. I can't send pm's or post on the ST board but if this mum wants to here from more fornits folks just PM me and I'll give you(psy or exhausted) my email address
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Why all your drama? It gets old.
It sure does.
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Exhausted is right that the best thing to do is talk to the parent... as for which is worse: running away or going to a duck farm... you know my answer to that.
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I dont think this is the forum to see as an activism forum, or advice forum to bring parents to. I think it's a forum where people who were burned by an insidious and abusive industry congregate because it's the busiest bar so to speak, and the most lively. If you walk into a biker bar wanting to find out why your son joined the local gang, would you expect them to sit down with you and have tea and crumpits and turn down the music? I wouldn't. Take it for what it is, don't assume it's anything more though... it could backfire!
I'd have to agree with this to some extent. We are a lively bunch, indeed.
If they want to play nice, go to the facility questions and answers forum. It's moderated. All bets are off in TTI.
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Wow, either post in here or post in a forum run by TSW?!
That's like a choice between being burned with fire and being hit in the head with a frying pan. :lol:
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Well then if she isn't a lazy poisionus retard then what are you yammering on about like the end of the world is at hand? Obviously this woman seems to have the greater mental acumen of a turnip so provide a few links and let her figure it the fuck out on her own.
Why all your drama? It gets old.
No drama, but in answer to your question of why I am yammering on :roll: it's better to get to the person who makes the decisions (THE PARENT) before she does something like send her kid to a program......why wait for her to figure it out? She is asking for help, what is the big deal with giving her that help based on experience, or would you rather she spent years trying to figure it out by which time she'll have sent her child away in desperation after exhausting every avenue?
For crying out loud TSW, i honestly sometimes think you couldn't care less wether kids end up in programs or not, you're not intertested in educating the parents one bit, you are coming across that if the kid is sent away it gives you a reason to bash the parent
maybe you should go back to your job, you don't seem to be interested one bit in stopping kids ending up in programs, if you were, you'd do whatever it takes, either that or your desire to see kids tortured hasn't quite left you yet, you really are a prize prick.
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Its pretty funny... around this forum.. the "ultimate insult" which you can throw at somebody is "you don't care if kids are sent to abusive programs".. :rofl: I guess if we were a christian forum everyone would be saying insults like "you are nhabited by the debil"... but this is the only place I see people slamming others all day long by saying "you dont care about the children!!"
When you KNOW thats not true.. obviously the people who post here do care about these abusive programs.. theyve been posting on this forum for YEARS longer than people who come and then make moral judgements about the potential of this forum.
Stick around a few more years.. you might start to get it.
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Its pretty funny... around this forum.. the "ultimate insult" which you can throw at somebody is "you don't care if kids are sent to abusive programs".. :rofl: I guess if we were a christian forum everyone would be saying insults like "you are nhabited by the debil"... but this is the only place I see people slamming others all day long by saying "you dont care about the children!!"
When you KNOW thats not true.. obviously the people who post here do care about these abusive programs.. theyve been posting on this forum for YEARS longer than people who come and then make moral judgements about the potential of this forum.
Stick around a few more years.. you might start to get it.
Goddam right, some of these stupid a-holes around here should STFU and stop their lame attempts at "quality control" and learn to co-exist. :cry2:
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I just got an email from Lori in which she allowed me to let my "buddies" on fornits know that "our daughter will not ever go to an egbs thanks to you and others"
She found a local option...
I have to go to an appointment now but.... wow. Good mood now.
::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce::
Lon:
::eek3::
::jawdrop::
I wonder if i get banned on ST now. :rofl:
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And I have some property to sell you, Psy. :D :D :D
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Uh oh.... Karen's working the program line... what will this girl's fate be?
Kristiesprout, program grad extraordinaire has banned you psy... due to "childish and argumenative behavior" and "breaking the agreements"....
No arguments, no debate, no exposure of what really goes on in program.
I noticed Anne recommended a life coach to the struggling mom. This christian woman should know that "life coaches" is also est/lifespring. You want some dolt, psych-wanna-be "counseling" you? You really should divulge that Anne, especially when advising christians who believe the new agey crap is of the devil.
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Uh oh.... Karen's working the program line... what will this girl's fate be?
Kristiesprout, program grad extraordinaire has banned you psy... due to "childish and argumenative behavior" and "breaking the agreements"....
No arguments, no debate, no exposure of what really goes on in program.
I noticed Anne recommended a life coach to the struggling mom. This christian woman should know that "life coaches" is also est/lifespring. You want some dolt, psych-wanna-be "counseling" you? You really should divulge that Anne, especially when advising christians who believe the new agey crap is of the devil.
I just read the post: "Due to childish and arguementative behavior and breaking of the agreements of this forum, Psy has been banned and will no be allowed to post on this forum."
I have a sneaking suspicion Anne requested this to avoid answering the last set of questions i posted on the "new years" thread...
That is so sickening... "breaking aggreements" how so? No specifics.. nothing. Just a judgement. No warning... nothing.
I think Lori is astute enough to recognize new-age when she sees it.
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Are you surprised? Look at who you're dealing with... they run the forum like program.
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Deborah- I never suggested this woman's daughter should go to a program. However, I suspect she got scared to death about what she heard about fornits and the fact that her life and IP address were posted over here. What she told psy was to sever her ties to the whole mess.
Psy- I asked about your banning and was told that you should contact Lon directly if you want more explanation.
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Are you surprised? Look at who you're dealing with... they run the forum like program.
Not really. But now that you mention it they did call me argumentative in program.. never childish.. but argumentative.
:rofl:
I tended to disagree with illogical stuff.... they didn't quite like that... the whole "logic/reason" thing annoyed them...
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If we're scaring parents away from this whole business, we're doing our fucking job.
Good work everyone! :tup:
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"Breaking agreements" Jesus christ, Lon, are you still at RMA?
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Deborah- I never suggested this woman's daughter should go to a program. However, I suspect she got scared to death about what she heard about fornits and the fact that her life and IP address were posted over here. What she told psy was to sever her ties to the whole mess.
Psy- I asked about your banning and was told that you should contact Lon directly if you want more explanation.
Karen. "Her life" and IP address were posted on ST before they were reposted on fornits...
You didn't recommend she go to a program huh?
"Lon, who runs this site, might be a good place to start. He could steer you in the right direction."
"I am NOT saying "ship her off", but I doubt that Lori is posting here without having considered all local alternatives. It may be that the girl needs to be presented with alternatives- either going to some sort of RTC with a strong psychiatric component or agreeing to do some serious individual and family therapy at home, with possibly some sort of alternative schooling."
"hat said, there are a few posters over there with good information about specific programs and I would be glad to provide those contacts to you. I tried to facilitate peace between the two boards earlier this year, and spent quite a bit of time listening to their point of view and sharing my own on their forum, but it always returned to trash talk and accusation. Oh-some of them recommend that our children actually murder us for sending them to programs."
Gaah. Cut it out karen...
I hope you're wrong about her telling me that simply to sever her ties to a non-existant mess.
Regarding the banning, i already contacted lon and kristie directly after it happend asking for an explantion. If they gave you a response quicker than they sent me one, i doubt i will get one at all. Most people respond to emails in the order they get them...
I have to get back to homework anyway.
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I need to address that matter also. I have never had sex with Karen in Dallas. Therefore it is not possible that I have ever had sex with an animal.
:rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: :rofl: :nworthy:
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people want to come into this forum, sit on top of all the content that was built by the people they want to now moderate, and want to use that information to help parents. personally if i was that concerned i would build my own website or pay someone else to do it. then when a program parent posts here, just post your link to your website.
but the reason people dont do that, is because they want to use the mountain of information located on fornits servers to further their own goal. it enrages them when they cannot use this unique pile of information in the way they see fit.
stop trying to plant your flags already.. if youre so concerned, start your own website and you can moderate people all you want. you can even have a special parents forum!! wow!
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Psy- how was what you quoted recommending a program? I used a suggestion I got here on THIS forum, which was to use the threat of a program to get the kid to agree to local counseling. You seem to have trouble understanding a lot of what I write. I think I'm pretty clear. How could anyone recommend a program to this particular parent? We knew virtually nothing about the situation!
TSW- You are probably the most repulsive individual on the entire internet. Congratulations.
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TSW- You are probably the most repulsive individual on the entire internet. Congratulations.
I think you had better look in the fucking mirror!!!! :rofl: :rofl: ::fuckoff:: ::bwahaha2::
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TSW- You are probably the most repulsive individual on the entire internet. Congratulations.
I think you had better look in the fucking mirror!!!! :rofl: :rofl: ::fuckoff:: ::bwahaha2::
A little more originality please.
Ganja's post sounds a lot like a five-year-old chanting "I know you are but what am I?", and feeling really clever about it.
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go home karen
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go home karen
Best advice I've ever read on Fornits.
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Now THERE's a sharp come-back!
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Bye Bye Karen
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TSW- You are probably the most repulsive individual on the entire internet. Congratulations.
I think you had better look in the fucking mirror!!!! :rofl: :rofl: ::fuckoff:: ::bwahaha2::
A little more originality please.
Ganja's post sounds a lot like a five-year-old chanting "I know you are but what am I?", and feeling really clever about it.
I'll get right on it. Sorry, but I'm just getting started. That was far from my best material, and yes, a 5 year old could have easily come up with a better line. I was in a bit of hurry & I haven't smoked up since I got home; that's probably the trouble.
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go home karen
Best advice I've ever read on Fornits.
Very likely!
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I would like to state, for the record, that I have found many individuals far more repulsive than TSW. And I'm not just talking about programmies, either.
:scared:
It's a big Internet.
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Refrain from your overly dramatic ad-hominen attacks. They really aren't working for you. What you think you know about me and what you know about me are two entirely different concepts. Using character attacks on a person like me is pointless when it is me who started 95 percent of the rumors about myself. I never once in this thread endorsed the bashing of Lori so don't start misrepresenting the situation now to fit your naive world view. I did fully endorse someone educating Lori's daughter in the ways and means to protect herself from her mother should a TBS become a real circumstance for her. Let me illustrate for you how I endorsed a positive dialogue with Lori.
Those who can read over the kindergarten level will also note that I posted more power to the mother if she can be brought to see the light in this matter. Also I invited Psy to host a discussion on my own forum where it can be moderated to avoid personal attacks. Noting that you might not have the educational requirements to understand the full meaning of what I just stated I decided to draw a picture for you. It is with great regret that the picture can't be posted as it involves the intercourse between a camel and and an orangatan. It just goes show how convoluted the entire issue seems to have gotten lately.
I think you ought to keep two things in mind here Exhausted. First I've been dealing with this sort of thing far longer than you have. Second I have learned over time to be distrustful of parents for an extremely good reason. Hence my objectives aren't about working with parents, but they have changed into providing resources for kids to escape, evade, and win their own freedom by whatever means it takes.
That being said let me point out the obvious. I am not here for parents. I am here to help kids. I am here to help them stay out of programs. I am here to help them escape from programs.
That is my sole motivation for posting on fornits. There are plenty of others who deal with parents. On occasion I will deal with as an ends justifies the means for keeping a kid out of a program. I've defended many parents on fornits in the past and will continue doing so as I see fit. So before wobble off to post a no doubt well worded response try to see past all the hype and malarkey. Remember I did promote 95 percent of that hype and malarkey for my own amusement.
Moving on.. Do have have a lovely day.
Why are you more interested in helping them escape than stopping them getting into that position in the first place?
You may have been dealing with it longer than me, but there's nothing like experience, this isn't text book stuff you know, only a parent can really know what it's like
If you're here to help kids, then the obvious place to start is with the parents, or basically do whatever it takes to keep them from being abused under any circumstances, not pick & choose what sits comfortably with you - that's hardly naive now, don't tell me I'm wrong on that, i was one of those parents a while back - wonder if you can claim to have REALLY experienced what that's like.
The reason you're a prize prick is because this is all for your amusement as you state, you seem to get a laugh out of anyone elses misery, parents and kids included
Don't worry your little head about my education, I'm an intelligent woman, intelligent enough not to be tossed around like a rag doll buy a self appointed forum bully like you anyway
Discussion over
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Your sole motivation for coming to fornits was to bully and troll, or do you forget that Karen? You play all nice now, but a lot of us remember what you are really like when you first came here... and what you'd be like if all your online buddies didn't start hating on you for showing your true crazy self. Its laughable that you seem so concerned with kids and then lie about pretending to be anti program, and then get quoted here as recently as yesterday promoting sending a kid off who you know nothing about. I can't even imagine what you are telling parents privately. :roll: You put on a good show though, a lot of posters here do... but every once in a while you guys get honest and then it gets interesting around here.
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When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
:rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl:
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
She's right about your treatment of her that time on the Carlbrook thread.
As for his motives. I believe TSW has the same motives as most people here: shutting down programs. We simply disagree with the methods. Yes. Blasting you, in my opinion, hurt the ability of Fornits to reach out to parents. Many would argue that this is not the purpose of fornits... but until there is another place that fulfills that purpose.. This is the next best thing. Hey. I already tried talking to the parents on ST.... and after one listened... BANNED. So. If you want to hurt programs... do what Charly (i assume that was her) is suggesting: convince parents to stop sending their kids to program. Some will listen. Some won't. A few of them will end up here later with a big "OOPS".
People hate karen. Period. I don't like to take sides. I don't aggree with her much, but i do in this respect. TSW was out of line on the CB thread. Karen... Well i don't much like her libel threats either... but that isn't the issue. Yes she came to the board and pissed a lot of people off. Do i think she meant to? Sometimes. But i tend to think of her more as insensitive than malicious... But how easy is it to relate to what some of us went through in program... it's not easy to understand... or the sensitivities involved.
Taking on the industry without parents = perception of fucked up druggies
taking on the industry with parents = credibility
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Refrain from your overly dramatic ad-hominen attacks. They really aren't working for you. What you think you know about me and what you know about me are two entirely different concepts. Using character attacks on a person like me is pointless when it is me who started 95 percent of the rumors about myself. I never once in this thread endorsed the bashing of Lori so don't start misrepresenting the situation now to fit your naive world view. I did fully endorse someone educating Lori's daughter in the ways and means to protect herself from her mother should a TBS become a real circumstance for her. Let me illustrate for you how I endorsed a positive dialogue with Lori.
Those who can read over the kindergarten level will also note that I posted more power to the mother if she can be brought to see the light in this matter. Also I invited Psy to host a discussion on my own forum where it can be moderated to avoid personal attacks. Noting that you might not have the educational requirements to understand the full meaning of what I just stated I decided to draw a picture for you. It is with great regret that the picture can't be posted as it involves the intercourse between a camel and and an orangatan. It just goes show how convoluted the entire issue seems to have gotten lately.
I think you ought to keep two things in mind here Exhausted. First I've been dealing with this sort of thing far longer than you have. Second I have learned over time to be distrustful of parents for an extremely good reason. Hence my objectives aren't about working with parents, but they have changed into providing resources for kids to escape, evade, and win their own freedom by whatever means it takes.
That being said let me point out the obvious. I am not here for parents. I am here to help kids. I am here to help them stay out of programs. I am here to help them escape from programs.
That is my sole motivation for posting on fornits. There are plenty of others who deal with parents. On occasion I will deal with as an ends justifies the means for keeping a kid out of a program. I've defended many parents on fornits in the past and will continue doing so as I see fit. So before wobble off to post a no doubt well worded response try to see past all the hype and malarkey. Remember I did promote 95 percent of that hype and malarkey for my own amusement.
Moving on.. Do have have a lovely day.
Why are you more interested in helping them escape than stopping them getting into that position in the first place?
You may have been dealing with it longer than me, but there's nothing like experience, this isn't text book stuff you know, only a parent can really know what it's like
If you're here to help kids, then the obvious place to start is with the parents, or basically do whatever it takes to keep them from being abused under any circumstances, not pick & choose what sits comfortably with you - that's hardly naive now, don't tell me I'm wrong on that, i was one of those parents a while back - wonder if you can claim to have REALLY experienced what that's like.
The reason you're a prize prick is because this is all for your amusement as you state, you seem to get a laugh out of anyone elses misery, parents and kids included
Don't worry your little head about my education, I'm an intelligent woman, intelligent enough not to be tossed around like a rag doll buy a self appointed forum bully like you anyway
Discussion over
I think that you are being rather presumptuous and a bit judgemental about TSW here.
I also think you take this board a little too seriously.
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Plenty of parents post on this forum..what are you talking about?
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Your sole motivation for coming to fornits was to bully and troll, or do you forget that Karen? You play all nice now, but a lot of us remember what you are really like when you first came here... and what you'd be like if all your online buddies didn't start hating on you for showing your true crazy self. Its laughable that you seem so concerned with kids and then lie about pretending to be anti program, and then get quoted here as recently as yesterday promoting sending a kid off who you know nothing about. I can't even imagine what you are telling parents privately. :roll: You put on a good show though, a lot of posters here do... but every once in a while you guys get honest and then it gets interesting around here.
Hmmm... :question:
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When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
:rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl:
I have ultimate power and control over ALL of you! ::bwahaha::
Social Security
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I think I've kind of given up on the civility thing. Parents that care enough to find out about these places will read enough to at least get a sense of some of the people and seek them out privately for information. If they don't, they won't. Plenty have. I've yelled at 'the guys' before, but seriously.....with dolts like The Who and Karen running around....what's the use? Like I said, those that care enough will seek out the information. Those that don't, won't.
edited to add......
And I'm goddamn sick and tired of coddling and catering to these fucking people!!! I had to do that for waaaaayyyyyyy too fucking long.
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I think I've kind of given up on the civility thing. Parents that care enough to find out about these places will read enough to at least get a sense of some of the people and seek them out privately for information. If they don't, they won't. Plenty have. I've yelled at 'the guys' before, but seriously.....with dolts like The Who and Karen running around....what's the use? Like I said, those that care enough will seek out the information. Those that don't, won't.
edited to add......
And I'm goddamn sick and tired of coddling and catering to these fucking people!!! I had to do that for waaaaayyyyyyy too fucking long.
Yeah.. but the whole civility thing is just syntax as far as i'm concerned. It's the message, not the method that's important to me.. If i can express the same message in a civil manner... parents tend to listen who otherwise wouldn't. That being said... even a message can get you banned.
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After all it takes to two troll. Not just one.
Tsw is right as far as i'm concerned on this. I told karen to ignore him.. she didn't. She took the bait.
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And I'm goddamn sick and tired of coddling and catering to these fucking people!!! I had to do that for waaaaayyyyyyy too fucking long.
:nworthy: :tup:
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Anne- those are YOUR issues and maybe you should take a look at them. Not all programs are the one you went to and not all people react the way you do. Thankfully.
I did not promote sending ANYONE off to a program recently. Read what I wrote. Who could have possibly recommended a program for Lori's kid? We knew very little and it seemed like she had not exhausted other options. Why do you make stuff up?
TSW- good try. You had to take over the thread because for once it wasn't all about YOU.
When I first was led to fornits (by Overlordd) I did what I could to defend a particular program because I disagreed with what was being said. I replied in kind, which meant I lowered myself. I have apologized for that and for mocking people. I do not support ANY abuse of kids-either emotionally or physically. I have limited knowledge of programs but I know a lot about teens. All any of us can do is speak from our own personal experiences. That is what I do- with input from my son and other classmates of his.
If you knew me at all you would know that I have spent 20 years fiercely defending and protecting my son. If I ever thought someone harmed him they wouldn't be long on this earth. When someone comes on this forum and shows some abuse at the hands of the programs my son attended- REAL abuse, not just "I was coerced to go there and didn't like the therapy", then I'll be all over the place.
In the meantime, while I appreciate the horrors that Psy, Deborah's son, Anne and others endured, I just am not there with respect to ALL programs.
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Stalk you, TSW? Please! The very signt of your login on the left side of the thread is enough to make me puke.
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Anne- those are YOUR issues and maybe you should take a look at them. Not all programs are the one you went to and not all people react the way you do. Thankfully.
I did not promote sending ANYONE off to a program recently. Read what I wrote. Who could have possibly recommended a program for Lori's kid? We knew very little and it seemed like she had not exhausted other options. Why do you make stuff up?
TSW- good try. You had to take over the thread because for once it wasn't all about YOU.
When I first was led to fornits (by Overlordd) I did what I could to defend a particular program because I disagreed with what was being said. I replied in kind, which meant I lowered myself. I have apologized for that and for mocking people. I do not support ANY abuse of kids-either emotionally or physically. I have limited knowledge of programs but I know a lot about teens. All any of us can do is speak from our own personal experiences. That is what I do- with input from my son and other classmates of his.
If you knew me at all you would know that I have spent 20 years fiercely defending and protecting my son. If I ever thought someone harmed him they wouldn't be long on this earth. When someone comes on this forum and shows some abuse at the hands of the programs my son attended- REAL abuse, not just "I was coerced to go there and didn't like the therapy", then I'll be all over the place.
In the meantime, while I appreciate the horrors that Psy, Deborah's son, Anne and others endured, I just am not there with respect to ALL programs.
Coercion IS abuse in and of itself.
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Stalk you, TSW? Please! The very signt of your login on the left side of the thread is enough to make me puke.
I think we are getting close to a climax where Karen says she isnt going to post here anymore, is disgusted and all that.. how many times you've done that already karen.. like half a dozen?
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Plenty of parents post on this forum..what are you talking about?
\bump//
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Anne- those are YOUR issues and maybe you should take a look at them. Not all programs are the one you went to and not all people react the way you do. Thankfully.
Fuck off Karen!! I didn't ask you to "take my inventory" you waste of flesh.
I do not support ANY abuse of kids-either emotionally or physically.
Yes you do.
I have limited knowledge of programs but I know a lot about teens.
No you don't.
All any of us can do is speak from our own personal experiences.
You ever been in a program? No? Then SHUT YOUR FUCKING HOLE!!!!
That is what I do- with input from my son and other classmates of his.
If you knew me at all you would know that I have spent 20 years fiercely defending and protecting my son. If I ever thought someone harmed him they wouldn't be long on this earth. When someone comes on this forum and shows some abuse at the hands of the programs my son attended- REAL abuse, not just "I was coerced to go there and didn't like the therapy", then I'll be all over the place.
Yeah, yeah. You and The Who sound just like my dad.
In the meantime, while I appreciate the horrors that Psy, Deborah's son, Anne and others endured, I just am not there with respect to ALL programs.
I didn't say they were all AS abusive as Straight, but they are all born out of the same bullshit. Maia's latest explains you people a lot.
http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ (http://www.thesunmagazine.org/)
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This thread is going nowhere.
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Coercion IS abuse in and of itself.
Word. :tup:
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This thread is going nowhere.
Welcome to the new millenium! :lol:
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Your sole motivation for coming to fornits was to bully and troll, or do you forget that Karen? You play all nice now, but a lot of us remember what you are really like when you first came here... and what you'd be like if all your online buddies didn't start hating on you for showing your true crazy self. Its laughable that you seem so concerned with kids and then lie about pretending to be anti program, and then get quoted here as recently as yesterday promoting sending a kid off who you know nothing about. I can't even imagine what you are telling parents privately. :roll: You put on a good show though, a lot of posters here do... but every once in a while you guys get honest and then it gets interesting around here.
Hmmm... :question:
oooppss..
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I think I've kind of given up on the civility thing. Parents that care enough to find out about these places will read enough to at least get a sense of some of the people and seek them out privately for information. If they don't, they won't. Plenty have. I've yelled at 'the guys' before, but seriously.....with dolts like The Who and Karen running around....what's the use? Like I said, those that care enough will seek out the information. Those that don't, won't.
edited to add......
And I'm goddamn sick and tired of coddling and catering to these fucking people!!! I had to do that for waaaaayyyyyyy too fucking long.
How dare you allow your 'personal' issues get in the way of our united front against child abuse - shame on you!
If parents perecive ANY of us to be the slightest bit out of their norm, or less than straight edge, we have failed and they will send their children off.
This is not a forum, it's theater. We have to put on a good show for parents in order to achieve our aim. Now I know some of you are saying, why can't we just be honest and say what we think? Because parents will not stay around and then we lose them forever to the bowels of this industry!
So please, shape up. No more threads about pot smoking, getting drunk, fucking asian prosittutes, none of that please. No more profanity, no more glofifying stories about drugs and violence. Time to bow your head and take your place as the a pawn of the activists who need to make up for their previous mistakes. Dont say anything. Just stand there and look pretty and say you agree with everything I say, since you obviously arent capable of civil discussion due to your lifetime of issues.
If you dont want to do that then act as crazy as you can. Then parents will think any kid they send to a program will end up crazy. If TSW acts crazy then parents will think staff at these places are crazy. WOW. what an effective strategy.
So.. places actors. we got a live audience of parents out there.. scene one, take two.. lights, camera... ACTION!
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When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
:rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl: :roll: :rofl:
I have ultimate power and control over ALL of you! ::bwahaha::
Social Security
SUBMIT & OBEY... ::bigsmilebounce::
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Like I said, Anne, those are your issues and not mine. In your case, I agree with CCMGirl and you really need to get over it. Taking one's inventory seems to be the main goal of this site, doesn't it? You sure spend a lot of time taking mine and telling me what I do and do not believe and what I do and do not know. Take a look inside at that anger, Anne. Is it at parents whose kids are doing well? At parents who are doing well and have good relationships with their kids? At kids who don't hate their parents EVEN after a program? Your issues, not mine.
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I think I've kind of given up on the civility thing. Parents that care enough to find out about these places will read enough to at least get a sense of some of the people and seek them out privately for information. If they don't, they won't. Plenty have. I've yelled at 'the guys' before, but seriously.....with dolts like The Who and Karen running around....what's the use? Like I said, those that care enough will seek out the information. Those that don't, won't.
edited to add......
And I'm goddamn sick and tired of coddling and catering to these fucking people!!! I had to do that for waaaaayyyyyyy too fucking long.
How dare you allow your 'personal' issues get in the way of our united front against child abuse - shame on you!
If parents perecive ANY of us to be the slightest bit out of their norm, or less than straight edge, we have failed and they will send their children off.
This is not a forum, it's theater. We have to put on a good show for parents in order to achieve our aim. Now I know some of you are saying, why can't we just be honest and say what we think? Because parents will not stay around and then we lose them forever to the bowels of this industry!
So please, shape up. No more threads about pot smoking, getting drunk, fucking asian prosittutes, none of that please. No more profanity, no more glofifying stories about drugs and violence. Time to bow your head and take your place as the a pawn of the activists who need to make up for their previous mistakes. Dont say anything. Just stand there and look pretty and say you agree with everything I say, since you obviously arent capable of civil discussion due to your lifetime of issues.
If you dont want to do that then act as crazy as you can. Then parents will think any kid they send to a program will end up crazy. If TSW acts crazy then parents will think staff at these places are crazy. WOW. what an effective strategy.
So.. places actors. we got a live audience of parents out there.. scene one, take two.. lights, camera... ACTION!
:rofl: :o ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::cheers:: ::kiss:: ::rocker:: ::stab:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::both:: ::both:: ::poke:: ::troll:: ::boycott:: ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm:: :wave: ::bangin:: :rofl:
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Like I said, Anne, those are your issues and not mine. In your case, I agree with CCMGirl and you really need to get over it. Taking one's inventory seems to be the main goal of this site, doesn't it? You sure spend a lot of time taking mine and telling me what I do and do not believe and what I do and do not know. Take a look inside at that anger, Anne. Is it at parents whose kids are doing well? At parents who are doing well and have good relationships with their kids? At kids who don't hate their parents EVEN after a program? Your issues, not mine.
I agree with Anne; I don't think parents should be coddled on this forum.
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Your sole motivation for posting on Fornits is to have a sense of power and control- just like you had when you worked at Three Springs. You can abuse and bully people on the internet instead of at the program. You justify it by thinking you are helping kids! Actually, your presence on this forum is probably the single biggest reason most parents won't stick around long enough to get the message others here are trying to get across. Don't forget my 12 PMs from your "friends" bemoaning your disgusting and vicious posts against me and others. When that many people have to apologize for someone, who really has the power and control?
Oh yes... I have power and control. Ican only have power and control if you give it to me.
So I am gathering I have you on remote control now. If I say go left you go left. If I say go right you go right? What sort of absurd notions are you prattling on about? IT is text. The only thing text can hurt is your eyes from the strain of reading it. Please drop this sad tired charade about you being a poor abused victim. This show you putting on isn't even fit for the ranks of a bad daytime tv soap opera.
Do I care if half the universe apologizes for me? Not a jot tit tat or tittle. Because what you don't realize is the numerous private message I've gotten supporting me in this whole thing against you. You say you have 12 whole messages apologizing for my horrible behavior? Well guess what! That Ain't squat compared to what I had sent my way.
So get over yourself and stop feeling that you need stalk me. Its getting a little creepy.
:tup:
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I don't think you have to worry about that happening, SS.
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I agree with Anne too. But I guess it's because of my 'issues'. So what time is group tonight? I'll pre-mix the Tang.
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Yes do stuff in your ears and run around going "LA LA LA LA LA LA" it will really work well for you.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I don't think you have to worry about that happening, SS.
Okay then. :lol:
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Look. In no way am i arguing that people should stop talking about normal shit. I'm just saying when talking to parents... consider the audience. This isn't a theater. This is reality.
Karen. Are you seeing this. Ask yourself what could cause people to be this pissed off. These aren't wackos (well most of us :lol:). These are by and large normal people put in extraordinary circumstances. Ask yourself what could cause kids to hate parents (within whom they see their own...) so much?
Well some people cope by saying FUCK YOU MOM and FUCK YOU DAD.. and for a good while i felt that way... But after a while.. i just wanted them to understand what i went through. Persistance paid off. It doesn't in every case.. and some parents still refuse to listen to, or believe, their kids stories of abuse... It's like a program phone call all over again. Its not being believed when you're telling the truth. it's infuriating to most...
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Look. In no way am i arguing that people should stop talking about normal shit. I'm just saying when talking to parents... consider the audience. This isn't a theater. This is reality.
Hate to tell you, but this fuckin' board has morphed into a comic strip. ::bwahaha::
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Hate to tell you, but this fuckin' board has morphed into a comic strip. ::bwahaha::
I'm Calvin, Luke's Hobbes.
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Like I said, Anne, those are your issues and not mine. In your case, I agree with CCMGirl and you really need to get over it. Taking one's inventory seems to be the main goal of this site, doesn't it? You sure spend a lot of time taking mine and telling me what I do and do not believe and what I do and do not know. Take a look inside at that anger, Anne. Is it at parents whose kids are doing well? At parents who are doing well and have good relationships with their kids? At kids who don't hate their parents EVEN after a program? Your issues, not mine.
Yep, they're my issues.....given to me by Straight. You're pretty much the only one I speak to like this, save The Who but y'all are interchangeable at this point. You bet your ass I'm angry. A lot was stolen from me. A lot has been stolen from my kids by some of my families continued belief in the philosophy that this industry is based on. I and every other vet here has got a god-given, program-bred obligation to be angry enough to call a spade a spade. How many more kids have to die? How many more have to lose their families? How many more will be emotionall crippled for life? Those things tend to piss me off, but that's just me.
To repeat, AGAIN. The very basics and fundamentals of 'programs' in the context we're speaking of here are dangerous. There is nothing safe about them. You can't dress it up or tone it down. It's isolation and coersion and it's not pretty. I've spent the last 20 or so odd years trying to figure out who the fuck I am because the chance to do it when I was supposed to was taken away from me. I adopted a set of beliefs that I neither understood or agreed with. I was in my developmental years and someone fucked with my soul. I'm pissed off about it but I'm more pissed off that last night somewhere, there was an Open Meeting. Those that were in Straight or it's offshoots know what a chill that sends down my back. The fact that people like you refuse to see what's in front of you and that you have influence over someone shipping their kids away is infuriating. The fact that the people who started, ran and continue to defend the program I was in influence public drug policy pisses me the fuck off.
I've earned my anger. Get the fuck off my back.
Christ, if I'm angry then I'm a loser and need to "get over it" here. If I talk about the good things in my life I'm a stuck up bitch elsewhere. I give up. Beer anyone? :silly: ::bwahaha::
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Psy- I am not convinced that the program is entirely to blame for the anger and parent-hatred on this forum. I think many of these posters have serious psychological issues (and I don't mean that as an insult) that could be present with or without a program in their past.
Anne is a good example. I simply don't believe that all of her problems-throughout her adult life- are the fault of the program she attended or anything that happened to her there.
Someone said that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
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Hate to tell you, but this fuckin' board has morphed into a comic strip. ::bwahaha::
I'm Calvin, Luke's Hobbes.
:rofl: I'll have to read Calvin & Hobbes (as well as some posts by the two of you) to fully appreciate this...
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Someone said that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
I think you are onto something. After all, you post here regularly.
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Christ, if I'm angry then I'm a loser and need to "get over it" here. If I talk about the good things in my life I'm a stuck up bitch elsewhere. I give up. Beer anyone?
Take it easy, Anne...it's all good!
How about a smoke instead? :idea:
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Look. In no way am i arguing that people should stop talking about normal shit. I'm just saying when talking to parents... consider the audience. This isn't a theater. This is reality.
Hate to tell you, but this fuckin' board has morphed into a comic strip. ::bwahaha::
::bwahaha:: :roll: :o :wave: :silly: :smokin: ::armed:: ::argue:: ::blushing:: ::cheers:: ::crybaby:: ::deal:: ::jawdrop:: ::kiss:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::ftard:: ::bangin:: ::bandit:: ::bandit:: ::bandit:: ::nod:: ::nod:: ::nod:: ::nod:: ::nod::
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Someone said that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
I think you are onto something. After all, you post here regularly.
Hah! :rofl:
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Psy- I am not convinced that the program is entirely to blame for the anger and parent-hatred on this forum. I think many of these posters have serious psychological issues (and I don't mean that as an insult) that could be present with or without a program in their past.
Anne is a good example. I simply don't believe that all of her problems-throughout her adult life- are the fault of the program she attended or anything that happened to her there.
and that's the problem. You don't see how far reaching and deep this can be.
Someone said that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
Well, I was a pretty normal kid before going in. The lightweight of my circle of friends. Straight told my parents all those friends of mine would be deadinsaneorinjail if they didn't talk their parents into signing them in. They've all gone through life pretty well with no major problems, other than the norm. No PTSD, no nightmares, relationships with their parents are great. They were all the heavy hitters of the group, I was the lightweight. They were left to their own devices, I was put in Straight. They're pretty normal, I've been pretty fucked up.
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Christ, if I'm angry then I'm a loser and need to "get over it" here. If I talk about the good things in my life I'm a stuck up bitch elsewhere. I give up. Beer anyone?
Take it easy, Anne...it's all good!
How about a smoke instead? :idea:
Aw I'm just blowing steam.:D
Puff, puff pass. :smokin: ::bandit::
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I simply don't believe that all of her problems-throughout her adult life- are the fault of the program she attended or anything that happened to her there.
What would you know about that? Stop being a drag or get the fuck out of here.
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Psy- I am not convinced that the program is entirely to blame for the anger and parent-hatred on this forum. I think many of these posters have serious psychological issues (and I don't mean that as an insult) that could be present with or without a program in their past.
Anne is a good example. I simply don't believe that all of her problems-throughout her adult life- are the fault of the program she attended or anything that happened to her there.
Someone said that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
Ok. Let's assume the wackos on this forum were wackos before they went to program.... WOW. SUCESS STORIES!!!
Er... Straight.. Yesh... Straight was not to blame for Anne's problems.... Have you seen the straight forum.. Do you know what they had to go through.. tell her anne.
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Bipolar?
Paranoid Schizo?
What is it?
You an alky?
You like snorting the nose candy?
Check out the thread for troubled parents, I think this parents in need of an escort, pronto!!
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How dare you talk about other people's issues again. This seems to be a common theme with you and the industry as a whole. Once a voice of contention in the wilderness rises up people like you trot out the old, "They've gotten problems! Don't take them seriously!"
SO TRUE. And it's funny how we both hit on the same point.
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But not all programs are Straight, Psy. And many people come out and move on with their lives a lot better than Anne has. This forum is a tiny, tiny minority.
TSW- It's interesting to me how the things that seem to bother you so much about others are exactly the things YOU do. You are always trying to identify my issues. You always want to turn any discussion around to be about how screwed up you think I am. How about all the people who impersonate ME or all ME all sorts of names? But God forbid I reply in kind. Really gets to you, doesn't it?
Anne- I have no influence on whether anyone sends their kid to a program. What part of "I don't advocate programs" don't you get? I want there to be an alternative!
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The best part about all of this is all you have to do is keep posting and she can't resist not responding.
LEFT KAREN LEFT!!
NO RIGHT RIGHT!!!
Any other person fully in their head would have logged off a long time ago and gone to start learning how to knit.
BUT not KAREN!
Woooooooooooooooooooo!
LEFT! LEFT!
:rofl: :rofl:
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I want there to be an alternative!
Hmm.. what sort of alternative?
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I would send my teen to Karen for mentoring if that were an option.
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An alternative for kids who can't remain in the home and community, like mine. Take the things that DID work about the program he attended- one of which was a therapist he respected. I don't know- this is what I am trying to figure out. Where to turn when you are really at the end of the line.
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Well, my kids are doing pretty well, despite being raised by their parents. I guess somewhere we accidentally did something right in between abusing them.
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I dont think Karen wants to have all her issues and shit splayed out for everyone in the group to hear and us throw back at her in order to hurt her. She chooses not to admit personal stuff and luckily she isnt coerced over long periods of time in doing something like this against her will. karen imagine if TSW had complete control over you, could lock you in isolation, force you to admit your shit in front of a crowd of epople.. maybe then you get an idea of what goes for treatment these days.
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I can not imagine anything worse. I agree that the scenario you describe is abusive. However, this is not the way my son's wilderness program worked and even the TBS did not use TSW tactics or the kind of force or coercion you describe. I am open to learning more about it if it does- and I can see how to some people (teens) it can feel like that. For my son it didn't impact him that much.
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SPAM
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I would send my teen to Karen for mentoring if that were an option.
:rofl:
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Well, my kids are doing pretty well, despite being raised by their parents. I guess somewhere we accidentally did something right in between abusing them.
Yes, we all know how well adjusted and smart your kids are. We all know that you're not really either pro-program or anti-program. We all know that you have been on ST and Fornits with many different identities, only some of which you've owned up to. We all know that you've insulted people just as badly (if not worse) as you accuse others of doing to you. We all know that you're just trying to "help parents with their troubled teens".
We know. We know. You keep saying the same things over and over again. And the same people keep arguing with you.
Don't you get tired of this? Why don't you just go away? (And I don't mean that in an insulting way.)
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Reality Check please!
It bounced.
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Well carlbrook doesnt have its own forum here, and the only reason the thread stayed alive was because the tit for tat troll game with you. our points are basically the same. when you talk about programs or use the word program and say it was good for your son i think, this lady must not know what most othe rprograms are like. the majority of kids dont go to ivy league schools they go to aspen, or wwasps, or cedu, so i hope you realize your son was very lucky and that is usually not the case for the programs discussed on this forum. just like you want us to aknowledge that some kids can go through the experienec without abuse, you must aknowledge that many kids do get abused. we are very similar in that aspect of our arguments.
if 5 mcdonalds across the counotry out of tens of thousands had sick customers coming out everyday, and even deaths.. they would lose business and be shut down so fast due to the media attention. how about 20 mcdonalds.. what would happen to their stock price? welll 20 out of 10000 mcdonalds is a very small minority. but i bet youd think twice about pulling into mcdonalds on your way home. so why isnt that true with these unregulated TBS? would you go online and tell everyone you just ate at a mcdonalds and didnt get sick, or would you just stand back, horrified and hope nobody goes to mcdonalds, no matter how small the chance that they might end up sick. one aspect of this industry is how silent and secret eferything is kept. there are cover ups in the abuse and killings and that shows something is definitely not right with the private teen business in america.
sorry for my crappy typing i just got a laptop and im getting used to the small keyboard!
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An alternative for kids who can't remain in the home and community, like mine.
I'm curious as to why your kids couldn't remain in your home, or why they didn't want to, etc.
What was the reason?
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I dont think Karen wants to have all her issues and shit splayed out for everyone in the group to hear and us throw back at her in order to hurt her. She chooses not to admit personal stuff and luckily she isnt coerced over long periods of time in doing something like this against her will. karen imagine if TSW had complete control over you, could lock you in isolation, force you to admit your shit in front of a crowd of epople.. maybe then you get an idea of what goes for treatment these days.
OMG!
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Guest- I could not possibly insult anyone as badly as I have been insulted. I could not even imagine having the creativity to do so! Perhaps you are forgetting what I was put through on this forum.
My login on ST has changed because I chose to try to avoid having my posts drug over here. I see lots of changes of identity over here, too. And lots of "Guest" posts. And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.
I'll leave in due course. Just think how boring it would be without me and TheWho. You would just have to entertain yourselves!
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I dont think Karen wants to have all her issues and shit splayed out for everyone in the group to hear and us throw back at her in order to hurt her. She chooses not to admit personal stuff and luckily she isnt coerced over long periods of time in doing something like this against her will. karen imagine if TSW had complete control over you, could lock you in isolation, force you to admit your shit in front of a crowd of epople.. maybe then you get an idea of what goes for treatment these days.
Bingo! Every one of these "different" programs (I've heard that about HLA, Carlbrook, Hyde, ASR and countless others) that are supposedly kinder and gentler begins and ends with forcing a belief system on someone. Every thing I read from both sides of these kinder, gentler versions smacks of Straight and they way they viewed and dealt with kids. I have yet to see one that doesn't use coersion or peer groups or levels or phases or LGATs. THAT'S the dangerous part. I've said before that I wasn't physically abused in Straight. Many, many, many people were but I wasn't. What really fucked me up was the rape of my soul and that's seriously, no shit what it feels like. I'm still realizing and coming to terms with different ways it screwed with me.....all these fucking years later. When I was in there I had no other frame of reference, no relation to anything normal. When I got out I was held hostage to those same beliefs through the custody shit. I already had the stigma of being a "druggie" kid, even though there was absolutely NO evidence of a drug problem. My own father hired an attorney that was on the board of Straight to take my kids from me. They continued the harassment until my kids were too old for them to be able to control me anymore. It wasn't until THEN that I was able to FINALLY begin to truly think for myself.
It's fucking rape of the soul, plain and simple and it fucking SUCKS!!
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Guest- I could not possibly insult anyone as badly as I have been insulted. I could not even imagine having the creativity to do so! Perhaps you are forgetting what I was put through on this forum.
I'd say you earned those insults, Charly.
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I had one kid who went to a program. I've outlined his issues many times- he was way over the top and admits today we were totally justified in sending him to wilderness. He disagrees with the TBS step, but says we didn't know any alternatives at the time.
Guest- I believe there is much abuse at many programs. I'm just not sure if it is ALL programs. They aren't all the same. I wouldn't even consider (at the time) HLA or any CEDU or WWASP program (or any off-shore program) for my son. I had a list of 3 programs I would consider and I chose one. I don't think it is right for everyone and I don't know what changes have occured since my son was there.
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An alternative for kids who can't remain in the home and community, like mine.
I'm curious as to why your kids couldn't remain in your home, or why they didn't want to, etc.
What was the reason?
Me too. Most of the time it really seems that it's the parents freaking out over teenagers growing a mind of their own. I get that, don't misunderstand me. As y'all know, I've got two of them myself. They can scare the living shit out of you, but most grow out of it. I think that's where the big disconnect is. Kids just aren't the big, bad boogeymen they're being made out to be.
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SS- How does someone "earn" those kind of insults. That sounds like something you picked up in program. Someone who insults someone with that kind of malice needs to check in with themselves. I took a look at what I was doing and apologized.
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An alternative for kids who can't remain in the home and community, like mine.
I'm curious as to why your kids couldn't remain in your home, or why they didn't want to, etc.
What was the reason?
bump
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SS- How does someone "earn" those kind of insults. That sounds like something you picked up in program. Someone who insults someone with that kind of malice needs to check in with themselves. I took a look at what I was doing and apologized.
I was referring to the things the other people were saying about you is all. In other words, you deserved them, haha.
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SS- How does someone "earn" those kind of insults. That sounds like something you picked up in program. Someone who insults someone with that kind of malice needs to check in with themselves. I took a look at what I was doing and apologized.
"Check in with themselves" :rofl: I'm going to use that some time.
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My kid could not remain in the home. We've been through this before.
Anne, my husband and I are not at all like your father and I'm sorry you had to go through that. We sent our son to two programs and he was home in a year without finishing the second program. He matured and figured out a lot of things for himself. Whether or not there was therapeutic benefit from the TBS is up for grabs. It did allow him to see where he wanted to go with his life and the way things were going before he went away wasn't working for him.
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SS- How does someone "earn" those kind of insults. That sounds like something you picked up in program. Someone who insults someone with that kind of malice needs to check in with themselves. I took a look at what I was doing and apologized.
:rofl: "needs to check in with themselves"? :roll:
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I can not imagine anything worse. I agree that the scenario you describe is abusive. However, this is not the way my son's wilderness program worked and even the TBS did not use TSW tactics or the kind of force or coercion you describe. I am open to learning more about it if it does- and I can see how to some people (teens) it can feel like that. For my son it didn't impact him that much.
Oh really. The tbs didn't use those tactics. Your son said kids broke. Kids don't do that unless coerced. And they did use LGAT techniques in their propheets. Like the documentary shrink said "they do in days what it takes most cults years to do"
You're right. Your son was lucky. He didn't break. He is strong willed apparantly... probably a bit stubborn like his mother :wink:
You did watch the french documentary right?
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Psy- I am not convinced that the program is entirely to blame for the anger and parent-hatred on this forum. I think many of these posters have serious psychological issues (and I don't mean that as an insult) that could be present with or without a program in their past.
Anne is a good example. I simply don't believe that all of her problems-throughout her adult life- are the fault of the program she attended or anything that happened to her there.
Someone said [Ottawa] that this forum seems to be a receptacle for seriously disturbed people. Is this the result of attending a program or is attending a program simply another point of common ground? I don't know.
Oh brother. Karen's been hanging out with Ottawa on STs and now has become an shade-tree psychologist. This should be interesting. She knows all about teens and can dx others, but couldn't raise her own kid. Now that's someone we sh0uld take advice from.
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It did allow him to see where he wanted to go with his life and the way things were going before he went away wasn't working for him.
One thing programs have in common is the over use of euphemisms and gross simplification.
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SS- How does someone "earn" those kind of insults. That sounds like something you picked up in program. Someone who insults someone with that kind of malice needs to check in with themselves. I took a look at what I was doing and apologized.
:rofl: "needs to check in with themselves"? :roll:
Ironic too since Karen's post sounds WAY program.... ::bwahaha2::
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I did watch it. I agree that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I just don't quite know where that is.
I am not opposed to coercion in therapy. I think some of it is needed- I agree with Anne Hall on that.
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My kid could not remain in the home. We've been through this before.
Anne, my husband and I are not at all like your father and I'm sorry you had to go through that. We sent our son to two programs and he was home in a year without finishing the second program. He matured and figured out a lot of things for himself. Whether or not there was therapeutic benefit from the TBS is up for grabs. It did allow him to see where he wanted to go with his life and the way things were going before he went away wasn't working for him.
Well gee, thanks but I ain't asking for your pity. :roll: My point is that my dad didn't and still doesn't feel that Straight was abusive. I was in there with the famed Miller Newton. The whole time. Pretty much everyone agrees that that was horrible. Not dad. He refuses to see it. Parents see what they want to see. They see what's put in front of them. They need to look a little deeper.
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I did watch it. I agree that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I just don't quite know where that is.
I am not opposed to coercion in therapy. I think some of it is needed- I agree with Anne Hall on that.
Have you ever been on the receiving end?
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Oh brother. Karen's been hanging out with Ottawa on STs and now has become an shade-tree psychologist. This should be interesting. She knows all about teens and can dx others, but couldn't raise her own kid. Now that's someone we sh0uld take advice from.
:rofl: :nworthy: :tup:
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I did watch it. I agree that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I just don't quite know where that is. :o
I am not opposed to coercion in therapy. :o I think some of it is needed- I agree with Anne Hall on that.
And you wonder why we call you names. :roll: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::unhappy:: ::stab:: ::puke:: ::bangin::
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If my son tells me his programs were abusive to him, I'll listen.
TSW- Yes, he grew up. The therapy at the TBS had little to do with it. However, what he did have there were a few staff members (including his therapist) who he really respected and listened to. He didn't listen to us (his parents). He still emails back and forth with one of them in Latin. I don't really care whether it was the therapy or not. The time he was there he was safe, he had a lot of time to read and think, and he came out ready to live his life. I agreed way before this that the therapy was suspect in terms of the groups, etc. There were a few things that worked for him, but he is not very receptive to therapy.
Anne- that is what I mean. It wasn't a matter of my pitying you. It was me telling you I hear what you are saying and I appreciate what you went through. It's a shame for you that you can't accept that.
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So why can't I diagnose my own parent with Alzheimers (theyve been forgetting things lately, not flushing the toilet) and hire some thugs to take them away for a few years and have them trained to flush the toilet like good boys and girls. Aparently some shit about due process, the constitution... thank god that stuff don't apply to them damn kids!
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It did allow him to see where he wanted to go with his life and the way things were going before he went away wasn't working for him.
One thing programs have in common is the over use of euphemisms and gross simplification.
Yes indeed.
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Deb- You're right. Our family got to the point where we could not raise our son. There was a year that he needed to not be with us. Perhaps it was our terrible parenting, but for whatever reason the family had totally broken down. He appears to have gotten raised OK, though, in the end.
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If your parents were minors or you had medical power of attorney, you could certainly have them taken to a facility which would likely be a lot worse than the TBS my son attended, judging from the nursing home cases I read about in the legal journals.
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Karen, you're talking out your ass again as usual. You have no idea what it's like to be subjected to that kind of bullshit. You have no idea how it alters you view of life and self. I read these forums and just shake my head. All these places that are proclaimed to be different, better, safer....it's all bullshit. I'm watching the people that went to Hyde anywhere from 30 years ago until just a few wake up and realize what was done to them. Just like happened with Carlbrook and ASR and HLA and on and on. It's all so sad. So many families lost, altered beyond repair. So many lives shattered or even simply dulled and muted. It's sick, it's twisted, it doesn't "work", it hurts people and it needs to fucking stop. Now.
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If your parents were minors or you had medical power of attorney, you could certainly have them taken to a facility which would likely be a lot worse than the TBS my son attended, judging from the nursing home cases I read about in the legal journals.
What do you you have to do to get medical power of attorney?
Why does the state not trust the family to make the decision when in patient is necessary. Why is there due process for coercive therapy for adults and not children?
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Guest- I could not possibly insult anyone as badly as I have been insulted. I could not even imagine having the creativity to do so! Perhaps you are forgetting what I was put through on this forum.
My login on ST has changed because I chose to try to avoid having my posts drug over here. I see lots of changes of identity over here, too. And lots of "Guest" posts. And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.
I'll leave in due course. Just think how boring it would be without me and TheWho. You would just have to entertain yourselves!
Look. The first person to stop mentioning the past will be the first to put it in the past.
Your ip address... like milk said... can do nothing without a subpoena. If it could, the record industry would be suing a lot more teenagers.
Shit. if you don't want to provoke.. don't say provocative things like that. that said. Chill.
You are dead on about the abuse though. Though you are wrong that what you went through was the worst of it. You think people finding out a little information about you on the internet (much of it false) is bad? Well. Imagine if you got "confronted" a la "Le Forum" method every day for years on end... and ... unlike "Le Forum"... the people confronting you know a lot... a lot.. about you becuase... guess what... you've been coerced into telling them a lot.... and confessing to a lot of things that weren't true.. to try to appease... and "work the program"... Please. You truly have no idea... no IDEA.. how bad it can get in these programs...
Let's see... for example... A girl who I knew was brought out in front of group becuase she used to masturbate with the cookware in the house.. (dildoes etc.. were not allowed). As a result... imaginably... The girl was henceforth known as "spatch" for "spatula". it sounds funny? You think it was funny to her.
Imagine every personal, embarrassing thing you have ever done being used against you in front of a large... very vocal audience...(extra points with staff for cruelty... also known as "being real"... or in the french documentary "authenticity")...
that's just for starters.... should i continue...
Oh. The girl who was raped.... well guess what. her daddy was the one who raped her.. and guess who paid the bills... Daddy. So guess what. They basically told her to deal with it.
Oh. The girl who said she was raped by another guy in program... I don't know if she was telling the truth or not... but the staff didn't care... She was labeled as "manipulative"...
The sucide attempts: Manipulatiors. They made them pay for the ambulance bill by working it off at $2.50 an hour.
more you say?... ill continue in a second
You don't think carlbrook was like that? Just becuase your kid seems to have skin like a rhino?
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So why can't I diagnose my own parent with Alzheimers (theyve been forgetting things lately, not flushing the toilet) and hire some thugs to take them away for a few years and have them trained to flush the toilet like good boys and girls. Aparently some shit about due process, the constitution... thank god that stuff don't apply to them damn kids!
Hahaha!!
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And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.
Karen, that's too general. Who are you implicating specifically? Did you ever change the post in which you claimed I lost custody of my son? Or divulge who used you as a patsy to spread that crap? Out with it.
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Parents are responsible for minor children. They essentially have built in power of attorney.
No, the fact that my son wasn't abused doesn't make anyone else's abuse OK. I just don't know yet that Carlbrook is abusive. Maybe Anne is right and it will all come out in a few years. I believe Hyde is abusive and simply run by nuts. I believe HLA got in over its head with incompetent staff, trying to be too many things at once and poor leadership. I am willing to hear from more Carlbrook grads, but so far they majority seem to think the place was OK. (my son being one of the exceptions)
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If your parents were minors or you had medical power of attorney, you could certainly have them taken to a facility which would likely be a lot worse than the TBS my son attended, judging from the nursing home cases I read about in the legal journals.
What do you you have to do to get medical power of attorney?
Why does the state not trust the family to make the decision when in patient is necessary. Why is there due process for coercive therapy for adults and not children?
Excellent questions, squire!
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Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that. It was a long time ago.
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I did watch it. I agree that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I just don't quite know where that is.
I am not opposed to coercion in therapy. I think some of it is needed- I agree with Anne Hall on that.
was what you described on that tape therapy?
Therapy is public humilation?
I doubt you'd find anybody who hasn't gone through an LGAT (and that includes workshops), who approves of that shit. CEDU's workshops for parents were almost carbon copy est.
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Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.
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And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.
Karen, that's too general. Who are you implicating specifically? Did you ever change the post in which you claimed I lost custody of my son? Or divulge who used you as a patsy to spread that crap? Out with it.
Wha...? What's this all about????? A patsy? WHAT??? ((LOL))
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Bingo! Every one of these "different" programs (I've heard that about HLA, Carlbrook, Hyde, ASR and countless others) that are supposedly kinder and gentler begins and ends with forcing a belief system on someone. Every thing I read from both sides of these kinder, gentler versions smacks of Straight and they way they viewed and dealt with kids. I have yet to see one that doesn't use coersion or peer groups or levels or phases or LGATs. THAT'S the dangerous part.
There's a reason. They're all CEDU/est/Lifespring/Synanon based. They're all branches of the same experimental, new-agey bullshit philosophy. They're not kinder and gentler. Instead of putting kids in dog kennels, like their used car salesmen cousins, they focus on mind rape. No visible scars.
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And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.
Karen, that's too general. Who are you implicating specifically? Did you ever change the post in which you claimed I lost custody of my son? Or divulge who used you as a patsy to spread that crap? Out with it.
Karen. These people won't sue you. If what she says is true... you might as well admit it.
Deb: ... cut that shit out. Mod privs are not to be abused. Karen is not HLA.
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My son hated Carlbrook- most of the kids who came out swear by it. My son had a classmate from Carlbrook at his next school and they could hardly get him to shut up about how great it was.
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Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.
So you don't condone what went on in that tape?
Gestalt therapy is not est.
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My son hated Carlbrook- most of the kids who came out swear by it. My son had a classmate from Carlbrook at his next school and they could hardly get him to shut up about how great it was.
Lemme guess. he graduated. IE. you don't graduate until you believe that shit.
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Parents are responsible for minor children. They essentially have built in power of attorney.
There needs to be some revisions made concerning children's rights. What say you start litigating in that direction, Charly? Why not try to help someone for a change?
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Guest- I believe there is much abuse at many programs. I'm just not sure if it is ALL programs. They aren't all the same. I wouldn't even consider (at the time) HLA or any CEDU or WWASP program (or any off-shore program) for my son. I had a list of 3 programs I would consider and I chose one. I don't think it is right for everyone and I don't know what changes have occured since my son was there.
Karen, Karen, Karen.... it wasn't but a few short months ago you were in the HLA forum defending them like the attorney you are. I spose to save face, you had to change your tune when the lawsuit was filed. Or, at what point did you actually change your mind?
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Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that. It was a long time ago.
GET HONEST BITCH!!!!!!! :evil: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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If my son tells me his programs were abusive to him, I'll listen.
I didn't even recognize that it was abusive for a long time.
TSW- Yes, he grew up. The therapy at the TBS had little to do with it. However, what he did have there were a few staff members (including his therapist) who he really respected and listened to. He didn't listen to us (his parents). He still emails back and forth with one of them in Latin. I don't really care whether it was the therapy or not. The time he was there he was safe, he had a lot of time to read and think, and he came out ready to live his life. I agreed way before this that the therapy was suspect in terms of the groups, etc. There were a few things that worked for him, but he is not very receptive to therapy.
Anne- that is what I mean. It wasn't a matter of my pitying you. It was me telling you I hear what you are saying and I appreciate what you went through. It's a shame for you that you can't accept that.
But you have no idea what a lasting imprint those raps/propheets/LGATs or whatever they're called at whatever program have. You have no idea what it's like to have that running around in your head year after year after year. If your son made it through relatively unscathed, he's a better man than I. And lucky. The premise and set up of those types of programs is DANGEROUS. It isn't possible to make something like that safe.
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He graduated from Carlbrook and did a PG year at a prep school and is now in college.
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He graduated from Carlbrook and did a PG year at a prep school and is now in college.
That figures.
Ok. so you say you would never approve of a CEDU program... but Carlbrook... was a CEDU clone... with all the trimmings from everything you have described. There is nothing you have said to indicate otherwise... and you're son's descriptions of things seem to match pretty well.
I suggest you ask him what kinds of things were talked about in group... whether personal subjects were made public. whether kids were attacked in group...
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Anne- my son didn't finish the program and only went through 2 workshops, so maybe he was less affected because of that.
Deb- It was a long time ago that I was told that about you and your son. I defended HLA while I was getting information that everything was fine there. When I found out the truth, I stopped defending it. I am willing to admit I was wrong. I have no connection to HLA or anyone there. I knew two families with kids there, but they are long gone.
I am interested in the class action suit. I hope the parents prevail.
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Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.
THAT'S WHAT LGATS/RAPS/PROPHEETS/SEMINARS ARE!!!!! THAT'S HOW THEY "WORK"
::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.
well... i would argue that the raps are more the type of thing seen on the beginning of the tape (again... nothing compared to a real program)... and the "dig up childhood fears and trauma" shit is the workshops..... and the real deep disclosures..
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
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I don't know what that means. I guess I don't know when I'm trolling and when I'm not! :D
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
Then why do you incensantly defend it? Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?
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Anne- my son didn't finish the program and only went through 2 workshops, so maybe he was less affected because of that.
Deb- It was a long time ago that I was told that about you and your son. I defended HLA while I was getting information that everything was fine there. When I found out the truth, I stopped defending it. I am willing to admit I was wrong. I have no connection to HLA or anyone there. I knew two families with kids there, but they are long gone.
I am interested in the class action suit. I hope the parents prevail.
The ones who get mindfucked the worst are the kids who go in looking for help, and take it all seriously. They are the ones who come out singing the praises of the program, and evangelize their program after getting out. Ironic, isn't it, that the kids who are looking for help, or have serious issues are getting fed crap, as far as effectiveness of applying the situation to the outside world. Its the kids who reject the program, strong headed, stubborn , that will come out with a clearer picture. So if anyone is going to complain in the future I think it would be the kids who are the crazed program fanatics when the first get out. There were some 13-14 year olds in a program with me, hadnt even smoked a ciggarette before. They became enraged program robots. I fought the program and suffered restraints and physical coercion. But I think there's is going to be longer lasting in the effects. At least mine was somewhat honest, but they actually trusted those people and bought into the bullshit.
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karen isn't trolling. she's just insensitive to what we went through. she will listen... just try to be sensitive to her as well. this is not a Kids vs parents + program.... it's kids + parents vs program...
at least that's what it can be.
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Guest- I believe there is much abuse at many programs. I'm just not sure if it is ALL programs. They aren't all the same. I wouldn't even consider (at the time) HLA or any CEDU or WWASP program (or any off-shore program) for my son. I had a list of 3 programs I would consider and I chose one. I don't think it is right for everyone and I don't know what changes have occured since my son was there.
Karen, Karen, Karen.... it wasn't but a few short months ago you were in the HLA forum defending them like the attorney you are. I spose to save face, you had to change your tune when the lawsuit was filed. Or, at what point did you actually change your mind?
hMMM...
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Anne- Based on what I know right now, I don't see that Carlbrook was like Straight. I just don't see it now. I am open to hearing from more kids about it. I DO believe the wilderness program was effective-but I don't want to re-argue that here.
Guest- you are right. The strong-willed kids seem to do better. My son didn't buy into one bit of the program. He sure understood what got him there, though.
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
Then why do you incensantly defend it? Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?
Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit. Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...
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Anne- my son didn't finish the program and only went through 2 workshops, so maybe he was less affected because of that.
Deb- It was a long time ago that I was told that about you and your son. I defended HLA while I was getting information that everything was fine there. When I found out the truth, I stopped defending it. I am willing to admit I was wrong. I have no connection to HLA or anyone there. I knew two families with kids there, but they are long gone.
I am interested in the class action suit. I hope the parents prevail.
The ones who get mindfucked the worst are the kids who go in looking for help, and take it all seriously. They are the ones who come out singing the praises of the program, and evangelize their program after getting out. Ironic, isn't it, that the kids who are looking for help, or have serious issues are getting fed crap, as far as effectiveness of applying the situation to the outside world. Its the kids who reject the program, strong headed, stubborn , that will come out with a clearer picture. So if anyone is going to complain in the future I think it would be the kids who are the crazed program fanatics when the first get out. There were some 13-14 year olds in a program with me, hadnt even smoked a ciggarette before. They became enraged program robots. I fought the program and suffered restraints and physical coercion. But I think there's is going to be longer lasting in the effects. At least mine was somewhat honest, but they actually trusted those people and bought into the bullshit.
//bump\
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TSW- Obviously, I don't know how to use a proxy. I wish I did.
I haven't used a fake ID on here in ages. I don't even post as a Guest except when I get logged out. I can't read the code things!
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Anne- Based on what I know right now, I don't see that Carlbrook was like Straight. I just don't see it now. I am open to hearing from more kids about it. I DO believe the wilderness program was effective-but I don't want to re-argue that here.
Guest- you are right. The strong-willed kids seem to do better. My son didn't buy into one bit of the program. He sure understood what got him there, though.
Carlbrook wasn't like straight... two different genetic lines of program.. They have similarities.. but ultimately it's closest to CEDU.
Not many kids are as "strong willed" as your son. He probably had to be really really ... reallly... abnoxious to get isolated like that. I know because in program people used to try to get a vacation by doing that... they wanted to get away from the everyday group drama.. even if it meant virtual isolation.
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
Then why do you incensantly defend it? Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?
Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit. Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...
I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.
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Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that. It was a long time ago.
You know who told you. You divulged that Joe Ferrel was a friend from college, who just happens to be an attorney in Q&Q, HLAs attorney's office. Who else would have a vested interest in using you as a patsy? He knew you'd be all over that, spreading it far and wide.
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
Then why do you incensantly defend it? Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?
Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit. Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...
I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.
Have your parents figured it out.... have anne's.... shit. my mom just figured it out yesterday... after five fucking years...
My dad felt he was being conned... my mom knew something wasn't right... but they just didn't put it all together... i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?
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At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information. It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school. I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it. I'm still learning about all this.
TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.
Then why do you incensantly defend it? Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?
Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit. Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...
I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.
yep
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My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people. He wouldn't do it. He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit. He didn't obey it. He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump. He claimed he was "taking a break". He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers. He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised. They held it over his head- if he would "buy in" he would get to train. Never happened. We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help. Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill. He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him. He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that). I was on their case all the time. That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.
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Have your parents figured it out.... have anne's.... shit. my mom just figured it out yesterday... after five fucking years...
My dad felt he was being conned... my mom knew something wasn't right... but they just didn't put it all together... i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?
NO, but my parents don't come on FORNITS. :exclaim:
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.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?
People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........
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Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that. It was a long time ago.
You know who told you. You divulged that Joe Ferrel was a friend from college, who just happens to be an attorney in Q&Q, HLAs attorney's office. Who else would have a vested interest in using you as a patsy? He knew you'd be all over that, spreading it far and wide.
Say it ain't so Karen!! ::mecry::
(http://http://www.tkstoystand.com/IMAGE1/APPLAUSE/ap_p_sad_sam_giant.jpg)
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My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people. He wouldn't do it. He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit. He didn't obey it. He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump. He claimed he was "taking a break". He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers. He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised.
Your son's a hero...
They held it over his head- if he would "buy in" he would get to train. Never happened. We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help. Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill. He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him. He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that). I was on their case all the time. That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.
That's very little... if you think thats all that was going on... Ask him what types of things went on in group... what people confessed to. were private things discussed in public. Were people attacked in group? slandered?
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.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?
People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........
I meant the program... parents are the ones who ask that question...
Imagine programs didn't exist.. and you somebody tried to tell you about programs... would you believe it?
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Deborah- WHERE did you get that? Joe Ferrell is a lot younger than I am. He went to college where I went to law school. I've never met the man in my life! I called him to ask him some questions. That call occurred about 2 weeks ago. Where in the world do you GET this stuff???
TSW- Yes, I won't troll. I'll be nice. I would have apologized to Julie, too, but she doesn't have a way to get PMs.
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My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people. He wouldn't do it. He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit. He didn't obey it. He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump. He claimed he was "taking a break". He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers. He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised. They held it over his head- if he would "buy in" he would get to train. Never happened. We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help. Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill. He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him. He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that). I was on their case all the time. That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.
You ask how carlbrook could be bad for a kid? What if they embrace those social norms and when they get home they apply it to their friends and family? Because they will, it will be ingrained in them until they take the time to deprogram themsleves of that bull crap. You might notice a program vs program undertone to a lot of duscussion here thats because they divide the kids. Some buy into it and embrace it, others fight it and see it for what it is like your son. But it seems to me you agree your son was correct in misbehaving in these ways? Am I correct in that, or would you prefered he learned the ethics of ratting out friends to benefit yourself, etc? Most parents see these aspects of program as a good thing, and pay good money for it. They arent on the phone all day long criticizing the program, they are doing the opposite. Then theres ones like Sue Scheff who take it to a whole new level and build a little empire based on their experience as a program parent and fall in love with the whole scheme.. :o
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.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?
People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........
I meant the program... parents are the ones who ask that question...
Imagine programs didn't exist.. and you somebody tried to tell you about programs... would you believe it?
Karen admits that these things take place and she's perfectly fine with that. That's why places like this still exist. Parents like Karen and my dad think it's perfectly fine to alter someone against their will "for their own good". It's not. Ever.
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No- I totally supported him in not ratting out people. I wasn't so sure about the Crazy Creek chair. My son did need to learn how to live in a community and follow the rules of the community. I think what happens is that the programs feel they have to over-correct- and maybe they do.
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discussion continuing here... to prevent history.. repeating itself (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20531&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
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Anne- I don't want anyone to be altered against their will. I don't support that at all.
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Imagine programs didn't exist.. and you somebody tried to tell you about programs... would you believe it?
That's a big "if."
And yes, sure I would, as society is corrupt in many other ways...
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discussion continuing here... to prevent history.. repeating itself (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20531&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
CaN you guys get TheWho to hang out down in that forum too..
-thanks
//guest
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Deborah- WHERE did you get that? Joe Ferrell is a lot younger than I am. He went to college where I went to law school. I've never met the man in my life! I called him to ask him some questions. That call occurred about 2 weeks ago. Where in the world do you GET this stuff???
TSW- Yes, I won't troll. I'll be nice. I would have apologized to Julie, too, but she doesn't have a way to get PMs.
Alright then Charly If you will play nice I will play nice. I extend my actual apologies to you for being a hard ass to you.
Now I also suggest that this discussion be moved. Immediately.
Sure, where to? Your forum? Fine with me, I guess.. Someone else start...
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This is crazy: Karen is still defending Carlbrook; she is still insinuating that people like Anne should not be having problems from their program shit they had no control over; and she is attacking Deborah. Play nice, hell! This crazy bitch needs to move it back over to ST.
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This was all a carefully planned troll by TSW to get some action to his otherwise normally boring and static forum.
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whoops wrong thread
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guys. she's asleep.
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It's late, but you(charly) have a pretty fucked up view of survivors of serious trauma. You say that you're against abuse and all that jazz, but reading what you wrote about Anne imo outs you as being too ignorant to make such claims.
Not only do you not know the long lasting effects of this kind of abuse, you don't even know what abuse is. Psy is making some good head way with you and I don't think you mean to be malicious or insensitive, but lady get a clue.
Just put yourself in the shoes of a teen trapped in a place that humiliated and disrespected them in the same way you feel humiliated and disrespected here. Just imagine what it would be like if your parents turned you over to the "evil forniters". Imagine not being able to leave, not being believed by your parents, and not even having the privacy of your own thoughts.
Assuming that you are indeed a human and not a figment of the collective imagination of the fornits community, I ask you this: - Do you remember being a teen?
- Do you remember any of the embarrassing things you did then?
- Do you remember being awkward and weird?
- Do you remember any of the special benchmarks you experienced as a growing teen?
The stuff you remember is normal and priceless, Anne had that taken away and so did many others.
I won't go into why this is bad because you should already know that.
I going to sleep.....
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Karen loves aligning herself with THE WHO; and she continues her support of Carlbrook and programs, in general.
Her disrespect towards Deborah and Anne in her posts is entirely uncalled for and shows her arrogance, stupidity and cruelty.
She even show a great disrespect for her own son by posting details about this young man's personal life in details that should remain private.
She's an attention whore, who should be ignored.
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Karen, is a LIAR plain and simple. She comes on fornits and whines and says "Oh, I won't post and use any fake names EVER EVER AGAIN." Why the name "Charly" now?
She'll be back with some new fake name, and won't admit that it is HER, until someone figures out, AGAIN: Oh, that's Karen!
Why are you people dealing with this woman?
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I certainly didn't intend to disrespect Deborah or Anne. I don't know what led Deborah to think I knew this HLA lawyer.
Charly has been my registered name on this forum since December when I registered so that I could send PMs and apologize. My identity under this name was never a secret. Am I supposed to register with my real name? Let's see YOU do that!
The details of my son's life wouldn't have led to any identification of him if his full name and contact information hadn't been printed on the forum
I'm not going to debate my integrity here. I will answer questions and discuss programs on TSW's forum.
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Deborah- WHERE did you get that? Joe Ferrell is a lot younger than I am. He went to college where I went to law school. I've never met the man in my life! I called him to ask him some questions. That call occurred about 2 weeks ago. Where in the world do you GET this stuff???
TSW- Yes, I won't troll. I'll be nice. I would have apologized to Julie, too, but she doesn't have a way to get PMs.
Any of this ring a bell?
FYI- and between us- I checked in lawyer to lawyer with Joe Farrell at the Quirk firm....
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 662#207662 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=207662#207662)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 792#207792 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=207792#207792)
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Deborah- I talked to Farrell once and it was two weeks ago. I had a specific question for him. I got his name off of Ginger's Dewey, Cheatam section. He graduated from college in 1987-long after me.
I'm not sure what your point is, but I knew parents with kids at HLA and indirectly know someone with a kid there now. I have no other connection with HLA. If you want to PM me, I think I remember who told me your background. It was a parent.