Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 11, 2006, 07:50:34 PM
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How long was he in that shitpit?
And don't blame yourself- at least not yet. You can do all the kicking of your own ass after we get done kicking theirs, 'k?
Please be as detailed as possible.
Also, you have access to the forum on www.parentsupportservices.com (http://www.parentsupportservices.com) , right? If you do, please post the username/password you have there (if you didn't sign a binding legal agreement not to do that), so we can take a thorough look at the site.
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I am sorry I can not give you access to the BBS. Even though I am seeing the light, I can not disrespect the parents that are on the BBS. Before I go off of it, I will let them know why I am pulling my son.
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Send them all Private Messages instead. I'll bet dimes to dollars your public post will be deleted inside a day.
And for the love of crap, don't leave your kid in there one more hour than you have to.
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Mom, what do you mean by "disrepecting" the parents on that website? Do you think for one moment that 99% of those brainwashed ninnies would listen to you anyway? YOU failed the program, and YOU didn't get it!
WHEN does your plane leave for Jamacia, lady?
The only person's being disrepected are those children in TB.
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Mom will now join the ranks of the Chattering Pigs. Actually an honor.
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Its worth a shot posting some links with info to the BBS. It will be yanked in a matter of minutes, I assure you, but that might be long enough to be of help to someone or other.
When Ryan Pink posted that string of links, I happen to be on the board when it hit. I did a quick Copy and Paste; b/c I knew it wouldn't last long. And sure nuff, it was down in a matter of a minute or two. But I had the links - and I began reading. Its been quite an education.
TB mom - feel free to write me. I have what might be some interesting info for you.
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Mom will now join the ranks of the Chattering Pigs. Actually an honor.
What do you mean by that?
aka. TB mom = jnzmom
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I was trying to praise you for speaking out on the torment and abuse. I am getting my son out!! He has been there since August I was reading and thought to post what a great thing everyone is doing and I get hounded on about the situation. I am on your side and am getting hounded because I respect a group that is brainwashed. I dont know!!! They have their own way of thinking etc.... I am not going to disrespect anyone that I dont know their situation. I was raised that way. So sue me. I was reaching out.
I still believe these programs are wrong and I took a chance before I got him out.
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Mom will now join the ranks of the Chattering Pigs. Actually an honor.
What do you mean by that?
aka. TB mom = jnzmom
Or might be a BMW-bitching, moaning, whiner
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ing#117119 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=117119&highlight=chattering#117119)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ing#138609 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=138609&highlight=chattering#138609)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#32183 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=32183&highlight=chattering#32183)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#62351 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=62351&highlight=chattering#62351)
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Whatever you do, read this press release and heed the advice of child advocates and survivors (many of whom post on Fornits) who truly care about protecting kids and parents from exploitation and fraud.
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Referral-Free Zone: Buyer Beware of Businesses Exploiting Children and Families
International Survivors Action Committee
9/9/2006 4:02:51
Victims, Moms, and Advocates Join Forces to Expose Fraud and Child Abuse in a Booming Billion Dollar Industry
CONTACT: Shelby Earnshaw
WEB SITE: www.referralfreezone.info (http://www.referralfreezone.info)
After operating separately for years, a group of survivors, moms, authors, and advocates have joined forces against child abuse in privately operated children?s programs. The group emphasizes that parents looking for family help, especially over the Internet, have no idea that agents and programs are operating without federal oversight.
The ?wolves in sheep?s clothing? begin with the self-described parent ?resource experts? and referral agents. ?No one is federally regulating or reigning in these businesses,? claims Shelby Earnshaw, who operates International Survivor?s Action Committee (ISAC). According to the coalition, the self-described "parent resource expert" or agent may frighten a parent looking for help for his or her child with descriptions of one bad residential program, only to lure the parent into another, from which the so-called "expert" is making big money.
ISAC is a watchdog organization that warns parents, collects evidence, and reports child abuse to authorities about privately operated children?s programs and those who refer to such programs. Ms. Earnshaw should know?she was a victim herself. Now an adult, with a family of her own, Ms. Earnshaw has dedicated her life to exposing the proliferation of fraudulent residential children?s programs. ?Many times the best help for the money is near home. We are here to at least warn parents about the unethical practices of self-described resource experts and referral agents.?
Some referral organizations tout their membership with the Better Business Bureau, claiming they are ?parents helping parents,? while, in fact, they are uneducated in relevant fields of child development or disorders from which children may be suffering. In reality, these Internet savvy companies are marketing experts--making their businesses traps for honest, but unwitting parents.
Thusfar, such businesses are operating with impunity because there are no federal standards by which to regulate and punish them when they go too far. Ms. Earnshaw states, ?It is not uncommon for skilled agents to talk parents into moving their children across state lines and even out of the country. The parents needing help may be under severe pressure and these companies take advantage of the parents? vulnerable state of mind.?
In starkest contrast, the Referral Free Zone is designed to provide information from researchers, authors, advocates, and parents who have no financial interest whatsoever in referring to children?s programs. ?It?s not uncommon for the operators of these programs to lie about the fact they are receiving fees. There are also no federal laws requiring ?parent resource experts? or agents to reveal child abuse or neglect that has occurred at the programs they have just referred someone to?it?s buyer beware, at its height."
One program may refer to another, with the parent not understanding the connection between the two companies. The sites all look very different from one another, giving the appearance they are independent of one another. ?This is an obvious conflict of interest,? says Ms. Earnshaw. ?We know of cases where owners are up on criminal charges or in the middle of criminal investigations for child abuse, but the ?expert or agent? turns a blind eye because they may be friends with the owners and they have been paid. It?s very dangerous for children.?
According to the Referral-Free Zone, the latest trend is to ?appear? to advocate, while referring to another company that earns money. Ms. Earnshaw explains, ?Since people have gotten wind of the for-profit referral business, referrers are now teaming up with ?child advocates.? These ?advocates? will gladly tell you how awful a particular facility is, and direct you to someone who will help you find an alternative, which happens to be a business in which they have an interest in one way or another.?
The Referral-Free Zone only allows dedicated members who do not refer to children?s programs. The coalition is committed to advocating and creating true public awareness about the increasing popularity of using our children as business commodities.
ISAC said the strength of the Referral-Free Zone?s will be through the Internet, books, and films, as well as political and media campaigns. ?Our power is growing and we will not stop until meaningful action is taken to regulate this dangerous private industry. The Referral-Free Zone will unify our efforts to educate and advocate.?
The Referral-Free Zone is found at www.referralfreezone.info (http://www.referralfreezone.info)
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Also, be sure to check out ISAC's facility and referrer watch list.
http://isaccorp.org/watchlist.asp (http://isaccorp.org/watchlist.asp)
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So basically... I am a chattering Pig because I am not for this program and want to shout it out to the world?
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are you a former student or a former program mom?
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Woah, woah!
jnzmom: That was actually a compliment. Deborah was being sarcastic and referring to what the continual program supporters would call you.
Deb: How the fuck is she supposed to know the sarcasm around here?!
He's been there since fucking August? Oh man. Oh.. fuck. Bet you dimes to dollars you're going to be fucking appalled when you see him, and he's not going to like you for leaving him in there four months...
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I know understand what she meant. I am not worried he will not like me. He is 14 yrs old and very immature for his age, with a huge IQ. I am hoping he is grateful and loving. He has had majoir issues with anger in the past, which he will now. We will work through them.
Thanks
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I am hoping he is grateful and loving.
Damn, you had me going there for a while.
[troll10]
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JNZMOM:
When you get back I'd be interested to hear your side of the story and what happened and how staff reacted, etc. I know other parents will find this information very useful. I would be curious to know what signs or signals was it that starting to bring up red flags in your mind, and led you to this decision to pull your son out. This would help in the future conversation with parents of kids in programs. Good luck getting your son out, I hope they don't put up too much of a hassle.
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You lost me there.
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I am picking my son up tomorrow evening after I fly into Jamaica. We are then are spending the weekend in Jamaica at a resort until Monday. We will be back then. I will post what happened while pulling him plus find out from him and also let you know how this came to be.
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::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::drummer:: ::drummer:: ::drummer:: ::drummer:: ::drummer:: ::kiss::
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I am sitting right now at a resort very close to TB. My son is in the next bed watching TV for the first time in 8mths. We did not get in to Treasure Beach till after dark. We checked in and drove straight to the school. No problems. They checked my ID and made some phone calls and Josh came down. He did not know I was coming. It was an emotional experience. All evening though, he asked me permission to sit, stand, wear his hat, fold his clothes, etc. I am sure its a huge shock to him to be able to be normal. He asked to walk around the resort alone for a bit, since he hasnt been alone in a long time. It will take some time. He has told me alot of things. I told him about this site, and he is willing to share his experiences.
Thanks!!!!!
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The troll meter was a way of saying "I don't believe you." We get a lot of false people on this site. I'm now going to treat you as if you're real, whether you are or not.
The harsh reality is this: Once it wears off, once your son realizes he's out of there and not going back, the odds are that he's not going to be grateful you pulled him out. It's quite likely that he's going to fiercely hate you for sending him there in the first place. Your relationship might be irreparably damaged. There's not going to be any blue skies or sunshine for a very, very long time.
I strongly recommend you find him a real therapist as soon as possible, and document everything in case you decide to file a lawsuit.
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I'm glad he's out of the facility. I would agree with getting him to a licenced therapist to begin the healing process. I dont think he will hate your guts per-say though. How long was he at TB?
eta saw that he was there 8 months... how did you come to the conclusion you needed to pull him out? and why the heck did you wait so long?? or what tipped you off to the conditions at TB?
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I am sitting right now at a resort very close to TB. My son is in the next bed watching TV for the first time in 8mths. We did not get in to Treasure Beach till after dark. We checked in and drove straight to the school. No problems. They checked my ID and made some phone calls and Josh came down. He did not know I was coming. It was an emotional experience. All evening though, he asked me permission to sit, stand, wear his hat, fold his clothes, etc. I am sure its a huge shock to him to be able to be normal. He asked to walk around the resort alone for a bit, since he hasnt been alone in a long time. It will take some time. He has told me alot of things. I told him about this site, and he is willing to share his experiences.
Thanks!!!!!
Damn, more good news. This is fantastic. Good luck to you both. It'll take some time but whatever happens, he'll always know that you pulled him out. If my parents had done that it would have made all the difference in the world. I just spoke to my father for the first time in about 6 years on Monday. We've had a horrible relationship since I got out over 20 years ago and it's taken this long for us to try and make a new start. If my parents had pulled me out of there not only would the damage have been less in terms of the time I spent there and what I saw and endured, but to know that they realized they were wrong and took action to correct it, well...I can't begin to tell you how differently my life would have turned out.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy the holidays.
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I think we being played. Whoever you are pretending to be program parents you really got to do a better job. It's still too obvious.
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I am gettting the feeling there are some that dont believe me. However, I am so proud of my son who I just pulled from TB. There was a parent here that wanted to bring home their son, she is staying at our hotel. Josh sat and talked with her for over an hour. He told the truth. She called her husband and he is calling and if that doesnt help him come home, he is flying down to pull their son. They believed my son and Josh confirmed things that their son was saying. Plus he showed his scabs. So I came to pull one child, my son, and now two are going home. I also am taking him to the dr as soon as we are in the US. I think he has scabies and I took pictures just in case. There is more that I will share when I get home. So if you dont believe me..... well that is your opinion and I cant change your mind if that is how you feel. I am for real.
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Of course you are for real. Why would we think it suspicious for a parent to concern themselves with a forum they first found two days ago during such an ordeal. Please. :roll:
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Jnzmom.. I believe you. Keep at it. Get your boy home.
(http://http://users.aol.com/hytritium/newpost.jpg)
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What family was Josh in? What seminars had he completed already? Did you already attend the parent seminar? Why did it take you eight months to google tranquility bay?
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Why did it take you eight months to google tranquility bay?
I have got to put this permanently on the site somewhere.
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There was a parent here that wanted to bring home their son, she is staying at our hotel. Josh sat and talked with her for over an hour. He told the truth. She called her husband and he is calling and if that doesnt help him come home, he is flying down to pull their son.
This makes no sense. You picked up your son all by yourself, as a mother. So why can't the other mom do the same thing? What would a call from the husband do, why is she waiting around the hotel talking to your son when she can just drive over and pick up her kid? This makes no sense.
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the other mother may be having issues because the other mother may have signed over parental rights to TB. in which case they have to go through the courts and shit to get the kid back.
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the other mother may be having issues because the other mother may have signed over parental rights to TB. in which case they have to go through the courts and shit to get the kid back.
No - that I don't believe. The parents do Not sign parental rights over to the facility! The kids may be told thats what they did - but that is bull shit. What the parents sign is equivalent to what any parent signs when their kid goes to summer camp or even a school field trip. It is giving the facility the right to seek medical care and otherwise act as the childs caregiver. Otherwise, if there was an emergency, the medical staff could not intervene unless the parents were there to sign the releases.
As for the other mom needing to speak with the dad - and seeming to hesitate - this is not at all difficult to understand if you have ever been a program parent. People, don't forget, the parents in this program are also brain washed - conditioned to believe that their child will soon be dead or in jail if they pull them prior to graduation. It really does get in your head in a powerful way. It really is difficult to overcome. My guess is this other TB mom simply needed confirmation of her common sense. I expect she wanted to tell the dad what she had learned and get his support for pulling the kid. This might also be an attempt to share the blame should her greatest fear be realized - tho she may not be consciously aware of this.
Believe me folks - deciding to pull a child is generally not a quick or easy process. Personally, I applaud both of these folks for listening to their own good common sense when it finely did kick in. It would be easier for them to let the programming continue to lull them to sleep. The Kool-aid can be quite addicting.
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Did not think TSW was capable of thinking of more than one way. Pills must be kicking in for TSW.
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jnzmom, I'm so glad that you pulled your son from TB.. For the past few months I've been researching the "teen-help" industry and reading horror story after horror story has been a very emotionally taxing experience. Finally seeing a good story(well, good considering the circumstances) is like Christmas come early.
I wish you and your son luck!
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I was trying to praise you for speaking out on the torment and abuse. I am getting my son out!! He has been there since August
August... 8th month of the year...
December 12th month of the year...
4 months total..
Translates to: Can I graduate to the regular classroom now please?
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Well, Josh is home. Before my post was deleted from BBS and now banned from it. I reached out to parents to email me if they were interested on knowing the truth why josh was pulled. have had over 35 parents wanting to hear. I replied to each one. Its up to them of course, but I put the word out.
JNZOM
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All right, I seriously, seriously hope this is fucking legit.
What I want is for a bit over a tenth of those 35 parents contacted to react the same way that jnzmom did, with messages to all the other parents.
jnzmom, please get those other parents onto Fornits.
If this continues, the population can be more than halved, with only the die-hards and the irredeemable continuing to leave their kids in that fucking hellhole.
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All right, I seriously, seriously hope this is fucking legit.
What I want is for a bit over a tenth of those 35 parents contacted to react the same way that jnzmom did, with messages to all the other parents.
Yes, I am legit and I am trying to get the word out there to the other parents I have met in person or the BBS. One parent, who is very involved with staffing seminars, told me she just heard this past weekend at PC2, that the student said the same thing as I did. So it is getting out there. I agree on the tenth of them to react the same way. I am only one voice and will work hard to be heard.
Jnzmom
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Well, Josh is home. Before my post was deleted from BBS and now banned from it. I reached out to parents to email me if they were interested on knowing the truth why josh was pulled. have had over 35 parents wanting to hear. I replied to each one. Its up to them of course, but I put the word out.
JNZOM
You fuck'in rock ::rocker::
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Oh... FYI... I took my son to the ER straight from the airport last night. He did not have scabies, which I am glad to hear. However; he had sand flea bites, and since he was not treated for itching, he itched them and infected his open sores, which was not also treated. We are treating him now and they should heal but will scar.
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Mom,
Now that you son is home safely, can you back up and tell us how your son got placed to begin with? Who referred you, that sort of thing?
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Josh has had a rough childhood. His father and I divorced when he was 1 yrs old. He lived with me the first 5 yrs. ADHD, OBD ect.. since 4 yrs old. He lived with his dad for 5 years and was emotionally abused by stepmother. Then turned physical and came back to live with me when he was around 9-10. Long story there but... he was having behavior problems since kindegarten. Defiant, disrespectful, arguing, yelling, temper tantrums ect.. We went through so many counselors over the years. As most parents, we were desperate. Josh went to Midwest Academy this past May. They no toleranced him in August and gave one day to decide TB. We had a family meeting with his dad and all the grandparents. Josh then was sent to TB. After the letters, research and red flags, we pulled Josh last week.
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How did you decide on Midwest Academy? What made you decide to send him there?
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what does it mean to be "no toleranced" I'm not sure i understand that terminology.
Additionally, congrats for getting him out of there.
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Deleted
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Yes, you are right. They tell another place is better for you. Josh, however; told me, its when you are not moving up fast enough in the levels and they dont want to deal with you anymore.
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good luck with everything.
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He has been adjusting very well so far. He may go live with his dad though. He wants to get to know his dad better. At 14 he may need his dad more on a daily basis then his mom. Its totally his choice.
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Josh may go live with his dad????
Didn't you post earlier that his step mom was verbally abusive, and that this verbal abuse escalated into physical abuse?
Is this step mother still in the picture?
If so: WHY would you allow this boy to be around her?
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Would still like to know:
WHO made the decision for this boy to go into the program at Midwest in the first place? Was his father involved in this decision? Or did you, the mom, make this decision independently?
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He has been adjusting very well so far. He may go live with his dad though. He wants to get to know his dad better. At 14 he may need his dad more on a daily basis then his mom. Its totally his choice.
He's only 14? How young was he when he went into a program?
Jesus Christ... :(
PLEASE tell me you've gotten a therapist and nudge-nudge wink-winked to get an evaluation or something done, JNZ.
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His father divorced his step-mom 2 years ago. So... no she is not in the picture anymore. I would not let him be around her if she was. 2nd question: His father and I made a joint decision. We have joint legal custody.
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Thanks for the info TSW
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He's only 14? How young was he when he went into a program?
Jesus Christ... :(
Well... he is 14..... So... minus 8 mths... less then a year he would have been 13.
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Thats really young to be locked up in a program. Wow.
He's going to need your support, big time, but I'm sure you already know this.
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at 3 springs we had kids as young as 11
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Jesus fuck it only gets worse.
Jnzmom, what did the other parents say when you contacted them? Will any of them be pulling their kids? Are any of them coming to Fornits? You're in a rather unique position right now so please pardon me if I ask you to use it.
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Jesus fuck it only gets worse.
Jnzmom, what did the other parents say when you contacted them? Will any of them be pulling their kids? Are any of them coming to Fornits? You're in a rather unique position right now so please pardon me if I ask you to use it.
I would suggest sending them to the Isaccorp (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/default.asp) site. Not that this place is bad, but the information on the Isaccorp site is much more organized and easier to read through
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Well, they're for different things. ISAC is an information repository, Fornits is a forum.
Send them to ISAC, and when they're freaked out enough, send them here.
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Hi
How was it that you Came across midwest academy?
What was it that made you decide on it as a place for your son?
Did you get to any of the seminars?
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Like most parents, I found teen help on the web. I visisted the school and thought it was a place for him to learn. Discovery is the only Seminar I went to. Which I did enjoy and learned from it about myself and as a parent. Josh just didnt get the behavior issues by himself.
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Which I did enjoy and learned from it about myself and as a parent.
Considering the practices of WWASPS, would you really want to learn anything from its seminars, except maybe how to hurt children?
The Kool-Aid will wear off eventually.
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Either way, I did learn something from it.
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What?
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(this is where you say your discovery slogan)
come on, all you magical children, come out and play!
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come on, all you magical children, come out and play!
Be careful what you wish for.
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Discovery is just fucking with your head and then making you feel good when its over and the euphoria kicks in after the pain is gone.
Yanno, sort of like reilef after a traumatic event is over and you can finally recouperate?
We all know about how those seminars work. Its just mindgames and them filling your head with bullshit when you've been made into a 'suggestable' state and weakend so much your ability to think critically is gone.
Again, give it time, and don't take this as a personal attack on you. I'm just trying to jumpstart the ole "BS meter".
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For those that are beating me up for sending my son to the program::
I am a parent that had no options in my community and school district. My son would have had to broken the law to get the help he needed. I was trying to prevent that. I am sorry that "milk" you had to go through what you did, that has made you so angry and so judgmental on every parent that has sent their child to a wwasp school. Are you a parent or a former student? I understand either way. I feel like you are so bitter towards any parent that sent their kid to the program not knowing the effects. I know that now, I don't understand the brutality you are presenting since now I am aware of the program. A lot of parents have hopes in the beginning. Then some realize the down falls of it.
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Do I really need personal involvement to be against child abuse?
You just sent your kid for four months in one WWASPS torture pit, then sent him for another four months in what is commonly accepted as the worst one of all, you just realized that now, your kid might be suffering from induced psychological maladies they don't even have names for yet...
...and you're worried about all the nasty things someone is saying to you on an internet messageboard?!
Priorities, lady!
I'll ask again, if this isn't a troll (and your writing style is very similar to a lot of trolls) and you really did contact 35 other parents to pull their kids out of that hellhole, where are they? Did any of them listen to you?
It's not about you. It's not even about just your son. It's about all the kids being subjected to things like being forced to lay face-down on concrete for eight hours a day.
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Deleted
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JNZMOM sounds like every other fake parent around here. You've all been had. Again.
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For those that are beating me up for sending my son to the program::
I am a parent that had no options in my community and school district. My son would have had to broken the law to get the help he needed. I was trying to prevent that. I am sorry that "milk" you had to go through what you did, that has made you so angry and so judgmental on every parent that has sent their child to a wwasp school. Are you a parent or a former student? I understand either way. I feel like you are so bitter towards any parent that sent their kid to the program not knowing the effects. I know that now, I don't understand the brutality you are presenting since now I am aware of the program. A lot of parents have hopes in the beginning. Then some realize the down falls of it.
You don't need to be apologizing to milk, you need to be apologizing to your kid.
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Let's say they only answer the questions convenient to them. Why don't you answer PM's about the program that you can't find out through google ?
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Well done MGDP.
We win someone over from the "other team" get her posting on here, get her to acknoweldge her mistake and more importantly bring her son home (which is the objective here iirc) and you go and rip her a new one.
Sometimes I think you must be working for the other side. Do you not see how totally counterproductive that is going to be, It totally undermines our attempts to present the truth because Lon and co can simply use your posts to characterise the rest of us.
Yes, JNZMOM fucked up, but she's fixed it, her son is home. Problem solved. Lay off on the personal attacks.
Well said Aardvark! :nworthy: :nworthy: ::cheers:: ::kiss::
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Let's say they only answer the questions convenient to them. Why don't you answer PM's about the program that you can't find out through google ?
So in the abcense of concrete proof you have decided to make assumptions that are convient to yourself. What does this make you?
A cliche program employee trying to make ammends with trolls?
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Cuing JNZMOMO to come tell us she's real. It's not like a parent would have better things to do. :roll:
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Thanks, MightyAardvark!!!!
Ya know, people will believe in what they want. All I can do is be me and be truthful to myself. If some want to judge me, so be it. I am not going to let it bother me anymore. As, for being fake? Thats your opinion. My son has gone through alot, I brought him home. You dont believe, it? Oh well!!
I came on here to find support to help my son get through the aftermath. It has helped.
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You believe what you want, I don't want to start deconstructing other people's delusions. Sorry the proof I have would cause me to reveal some things I would rather not. I was just giving a friendly warning before you waste your emotional energy on another troll. Have fun!
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Sometimes I think you must be working for the other side. Do you not see how totally counterproductive that is going to be, It totally undermines our attempts to present the truth because Lon and co can simply use your posts to characterise the rest of us.
Heaven's no, not lon characterising us badly!!! If you knew what this industry was really like you'd understand there are no "sides" or "truth".
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I would like to know what proof you have. I am not hiding anything.
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Keep digging.
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Mighty Aardvark isn't Lon foolsbury.
And this whole thing seems awfully similiar to the troll I pulled on Muldoon.
Right then..
jnzmom if you want my advice I wouldn't even respond to the anon. If they aren't willing to present their evidence then they are either bluffing hoping you will flinch and reveal something or trolling you out of boredom.
I wouldn't bother responding to the anon. He does have a user account, but for some reason he isn't willing to use it. I suspect it has something to do with his own parents sending him to a certain wwasp program. Tranferance is the clinical term used in these sorts of cases I believe.
jnzmom if you do want to put the rumors to a rest why don't you ask one of the admins to verify your location?
You did say you posted from Jamacia, and I do believe that IP address is pretty distinctive, much like every other ip addy in the world is.
Fuck you TSW. You want to know why no program vets post here, it's because of people like you. You don't see it, neither do some of the other regulars. But a lot of us do, so enjoy your program that you have built here.
I'll be back when admins actually respect the rules of the forum and don't try to form their own personal program witin it. Remember when anonymous really meant anonymous arond here? In fact, this was all a troll to out you TSW. It had nothing to do with JNZMOM, thanks for proving yourself as expected.
JNZMOM, go spend your chrismas with your kid insteaad of wasting your time on this bullshit. It will only hurt you more in the end. Trust me on that.
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Yes I am a dummy. You are of supreme intelligence.
I bow down to your supremecy and god like abilities.
But then again, I never abused kids. So I can't be that stupid.
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Didn't they teach you how to walk in a line nut to butt in your program?
Oh they taught us more than that. :wink:
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Well that's why i am here, to dissapoint.
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::fuckoff::
really, no words are required
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Well, I am not in Jamaica anymore. We flew back on Monday.
We have a meeting with the Jr high today, figure out how far behind he is in school and how to make that up. He wants to catch up to 9th grade next fall.
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I take offense to the comments posted by "guest" regarding ex-staff. I am ex-staff and honestly i'm glad that jnzmom saw the light and took her son out of the abusive program. I too was once a starry eyed, change the world through love, type person. I learned really quickly that the world in treatment centers wasnt all puppydogs and roses and I got myself out.
Now, I was also accused of being a troll when I first came here so jnzmom, dont let them get to you. Sometimes some people need to get their heads out of their asses and actually smell the fresh air.
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thanks TSW i know you did :)
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Staff and program parents have one perspective.
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TSW your name is still bold, you cant see colors when not signed in so yes it appears you have "powers" still to us guests.
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I was addressing your "any idiot can see" comment or whatever it is you said back there. Not there you care, I can't knock you off your high horse and I am not going to try. But i am going to stick around and put sticks in the spokes of this program parent/staff love fest when I feel like it. Just becuase I am an asshole like that.
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Awesome thread to keep the flamewar in, TSW, especially since you believe she's real. I don't. Too many "I" statements, too much going on about largely irrelevant stuff, no real discussion of other parents, answering only the questions she feels like answering, and not enough discussion about what the hell actually happened there. Her reactions simply do not match those of actual parents and there is no emotion at all in anything she writes.
I'll continue as if she was, though. Noblesse oblige.
MA, harsh reality is what they come here for. They have to know it just walking in the gate. People are going to be mean to them, but as I pointed out this is an Internet messageboard. If the things we say have more impact on her than, well, just learning she sent her kid to be brutalized for eight months, this represents a massively skewed perspective and ought to be corrected as soon as possible, while she's still in contact with all these parents.
Jnzmom, if you really expect niceness here, consider: You just sent your kid to WWASPS for eight months. Even if everyone on this forum were to call you a cunt and worse for 24 hours and you read every word, the things done to your son and the things he has seen outweigh that by the weight of the Sun versus that of a marble. So pardon us if we don't care if you get your feelings hurt. And I don't particularly care if you like me or not, either.
The only thing I'm asking for is that you use your current position to get in contact with other parents and say what you can to them to get their kids the hell out. You don't like me? If you show incontrovertible evidence that you got one other kid out of a shithole, I'll give you my address and you can beat me with a stick. And this goes for the rest of you fuckweasels. (note to other fuckweasels: This is only for kids gotten out after this offer was made)
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I have two comments:
First: I am not sure if JNZMOM is real or not. If she is, then this could be a great opportunity for more kids to be removed from TB.
I think some posters may doubt her because of her lack of outrage, and her descriptions of how simple it was for her to remove her son from TB. Those who viewed the TB Documentary saw what a traumatic, emotional, and tough legal battle it is to remove children from TB.
Secondly: I agree with the poster, who appears to be a former program student that anyone posting anonymously should not feel "threatened" that their identity will be OUTED.
When I first posted on FORNITS in 2004, I did not realize that I should have registered with a "user name", and I posted using my real name. I am a "program parent,' and I sent my daughter to Whitmore Academy. JNZMOM will learn that program parents must learn to be honest, and to "take the heat" if they post on FORNITS.
MOST of the Whitmore parents who posted, did post anonymously--and, I know for a fact, that these parents helped to close down that abusive facility. But, these parents' identity was respected, and was never threatened to be revealed, or outed.
I believe that any poster has the right to post anonymously, without anyone else posting directly to that individual with comments, such as: "Why aren't you posting with your USER NAME?"
I think all of this "talk about outing people's identity by exposing their IP Addresses" is causing many people, who may have valid information to post, to stay away from FORNITS.
And, I do not believe that "former program students" should be attacked or picked on by anybody. If he/she wants to post ANON, who cares?
Sometimes, I post ANON myself. WHY? Just because the name JOYCE HARRIS can stir up " negative feelings." And, sometimes, I may just want to ask a question without stirring up a bunch of crap about Whitmore Academy.
.
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My experience of "real" program parents v. trolls posing as ex-or soon-to-be-ex-program-parents" is neither one is particularly interested in viewing children as anything but the private property of their sperm/egg donors.
The proof is in the pudding. Only parents who believe they "own" their children believe they have the right to have them abducted by strangers and imprisoned in a corporate gulag where under the guise of helping families heal, their children will be subjected to physical, mental and emotional abuse at the hands of persons paid to torment them into submission. It's really that simple.
The Repo Man is Back.
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Did I know that this was going to happen to my son? No, otherwise, I would have not sent him. No parent purposely puts their child in a program to be abuse, emotionally or physically. He is very open and honest about the things that happened to him and what he heard and saw. Whether you believe me or not, thats up to you. He doesnt blame me. We have talked about it and he also realized he doesnt want to go back to the behaviors he had before he left. I am not pro-program. However; we all have to realize what got us to the point to seek out of desperation of these programs. My son may go through a tough time right now. You dont know me or my son to just assume what happened to him or the effects it has caused. I dont even know that. In time, we will deal with it. I am very interested in knowing how this has effected other suriviors and parents of other suriviors, that is why I am on this forum. I was not out to look for arguing on whether I am real or not. I would not be posting if I wasnt. I would have no interest.
As for answering questions?? Ask me anything? As for the 35 emails.... I mostly got back "sorry, your son had a bad experience, my child is doing just fine" That is a simplified version.
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Oh please. What did you "think" was going to happen? You signed away the right of your child to communicate openly and freely with his own parent(s). That's child abandoment, lady.
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So what is your story?
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Jnzmom, I believe it is important that you "tell your own story," and include as many details as you are comfortable with.
When the abuse allegations first broke at Whitmore Academy, only 4 parents withdrew their children--and we parents were attacked for not "supporting" the owners, the Sudweeks.
But, the investigation continued; and parents, and former students started posting on FORNITS. The investigation resulted in criminal charges being brought against the owner. Eventually other parents did listen, and more children were withdrawn from Whitmore.
Whitmore Academy is now closed; and there is a civil case pending..
Other parents who have their kids at TB may be reading FORNITS. What you have to reveal about your son's treatment at TB, may help them to come to the decision that they need to withdraw their son or daughter, too.
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(Again, reality assumption. If I'm wrong on my evaluation that you're a troll, I'd rather just be wrong, or right and falling for it, than miss out on the chance to say something important.)
He is very open and honest about the things that happened to him and what he heard and saw.
What did happen to him? What did he hear and see? I thought he was going to post?
You dont know me or my son to just assume what happened to him
Actually, we don't have to know either to know that. We're all too aware of what happens to kids locked up in Tranquility Bay, as the experiences detailed at www.tbfight.com (http://www.tbfight.com) go thoroughly into detail. As an institution, they're going to do largely the same things to everybody.
"My kid is doing just fine" doesn't wash. If your kid saw others being abused, that means he saw the kids of the parents that emailed you being abused.
Which is why I urge you to have your son compile the longest possible list of personal first-hand experiences he possibly can, and you should e-mail it to every single parent that contacted you.
Also, talk to an attorney.
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What is MY story? Well for starters I never signed a contract authorizing persons to modify my child's attitude and behavior in accordance to the values and beliefs of some private lock up facility thousands of miles from my home.
You sound like an ed con poser or teen help wannabe with the emotional intelligence of a flea.
Let's see if you can ratch it up a bit and display some bonafide critical thinking skills. Unless and until you can do that (as opposed to continuing this pity party) there's no point in playing this silly little game.
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WTF? This is clearly a ST kinda parent whose been sippin' on their bourbon-laced eggnog while wrapping presents for their captive teen -- who if he/she has obtained a high enough phase/level during their captivity -- MAY be allowed to open on Christmas Day.
Either that or some attention whore is acting out their frustration at not being stroked by the Fornits regulars enough to satisfy their supersize ego.
:rofl: Take Your Pick.
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I pick "c" none of the above
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Not one description of TB and what that place was like?
Not one word of anger about how her son was treated?
Not one word about the process of getting her son released?
Not one word about ANYTHING?
And the kid is JUST FINE?
TROLL METER! 3
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Not one description of TB and what that place was like?
Not one word of anger about how her son was treated?
Not one word about the process of getting her son released?
Not one word about ANYTHING?
And the kid is JUST FINE?
TROLL METER! 3
BINGO.
:lol:
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Damn lazy ass trolls. The least they could do is load up on some carbs if they're gonna invite themselves into the Fornits sandbox.
:flame:
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Yea, troll mama, lay out some drama here!
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Not one description of TB and what that place was like?
Not one word of anger about how her son was treated?
Not one word about the process of getting her son released?
Not one word about ANYTHING?
And the kid is JUST FINE?
TROLL METER! 3
I can not describe for myself on what the place looks like. I picked him up after dark. The guard asked for my ID plus my two friends that were with. My son's family rep showed up and they went and got him. We were sitting on a bench in the courtyard. Yes, there are bars on the windows, however; driving back to the airport, so does every house I saw. Its a 3 hour drive from Treasure Beach to Monetgo Bay. Twisty roads, up mountain, down mountain.
The process of releasing him: I called last Wed told them I was picking him up Thursday evening. I went there, they had his stuff ready. I signed a release form and out we were. Took about 20 min. while driver from Sunset Resort was waiting for us.
Most of what my son has told me happened to other boys. Staff hit a boy in the face with a radio and slammed his head on the concrete. Now that boy has plates in his cheek and jaw. My son was trying to be forced into the bathroom where there are no cameras but instead he fought. The staff then punched him in the stomach on camera. He never saw that staff member again. He was severely infected from sand fleas. No treatment.
I did not say he was just fine. I was quoting the parents that responded to my email. I said he was doing okay.
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Okay, so now you have personal knowledge of child abuse and are bound by law to report this incident to the proper authorities. I suggest you stop posting on Fornits and get busy contacting CPS in the victim's home state, the attorney general's office and the U.S. Dept. of State. Once you have finished with those three tasks, some of us might be able to breathe a bit easier.
Do you not realize this could have been your son whose friend told their parent about your boy being abused and that parent did not do everything they could to STOP THE ABUSE?
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Do you not realize this could have been your son whose friend told their parent about your boy being abused and that parent did not do everything they could to STOP THE ABUSE?
You have a point! I will ask him what the boys name was and try to contact his parents.
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What exactly did this 13 year old do that required international imprisonment?
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Defiant, argued uncontrollably, disrespect for any kind of authority. Abusive to us so we have had the cops here. I could go on and on.
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Please go on. It's not every day a parent sends a 13 year old to a place like TB and we want to understand how something so unbelivable could actually happen.
Why did you not contact the jamaican authorities after hearing of all this abuse while you were there? Why are you so calm and not angry about all this?
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Hey, she doesn't owe anyone here anything, so please stop trying to bully her. When I first learned about this issue I was pissed and wanted to rip the head off of any parent that sent their kids to places like TB.
Now I realize that these places are master exploiters, feeding the fires of desperation burning in the guts of parents. If she was trying to justify and hold herself above responsibility I could understand you all beating up on her. But she's not doing any of that she admits that she made the mistake and that it was wrong. She can't undo that mistake, but she has taken the steps to right it>>
- Her son is out ]she tried to help inform other parents,
- and she has shared her story with us.
Come on folks lets just be glad that one parent and one kid is free.... thanks to all of you here who inform us about places like TB
::cheers::
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Defiant, argued uncontrollably, disrespect for any kind of authority. Abusive to us so we have had the cops here. I could go on and on.
Uh... defiance and arguing are not mental/psychological pathologies and not anything needing 'treatment', jnz. Did someone try to say that was some actual disorder or 'problem'? Because saying you need to force 'therapy' for a nonexistant problem is 100% quackery! I wonder if you could nail the edcon for something akin to practicing without a liscence or fraud...
What do you mean abusive? WHY did you call the cops, exactly? Not generalized 'abusiveness' like what comes from the mouths of ST posters, I mean speciifcs... was it all verbal or was he actually harming anyone or anything?
I'm not trying to bully you (and to those who think I am, If I was, you'd know...) I'm just trying to understand whats going on and what your thinking was. If he was acting out violently, that is one thing, and there is REAL help to be had for that REAL problem... but sending a kid away for having a big mouth is just stupid.
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Why doesnt this TB Mom get in touch with the watchdog org ISAC? They have a procedure for reporting allegations of abuse to the proper authorities in the U.S. and overseas.
http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
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Why not take them to court for abuse and not giving education or therapy while you're at it?
A person by himself doing what a program does to kids is a 'sex offender'... but a business isn't?
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YOU haven't sent me anything, TSW...
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I can not describe for myself on what the place looks like. I picked him up after dark.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/gallery/tranq ... page1.html (http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/gallery/tranquilitybay/page1.html)
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Wow TSW, get the sand out. My dad might have been a Class A asshole but the very idea of sending me to some cult like this would have appalled him beyond compare and even my crazy-ass mom would have flipped her gizzard. All of this is thoroughly in the camp of 'things you just don't do to children'.
If I really was a programmie, don't you think they'd have better websites? :lol:
During the period of their lives that a lot of the posters here were being incarcerated and had cult bullshit rammed down their throats, I was busy worrying about grades, bike riding, going on late-night outings with friends, crushing my parents' minds like soft clay (so no, this has nothing to do with them, I've already gotten more revenge than they were worth), and playing Starcraft.
Yes, I am, in fact, a complete outsider to all of this, having no direct interaction with any of it before Fornits, and I have never felt happier about that fact than right now. 8-)
And yes, I am gloating. Don't waste your hate on me. I just eat it. Save it for the child torturers instead.
I could flame you back, TSW, but really- don't you have your own demons to worry about? It's not worth my time.
Back to the trolling!
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It is my intention to disregard anything you have to say
Liar.
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Better calm down. Can't have Ginger's two "moderators" having a little fight, here!
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The days of our fornits :roll:
ON TOPIC PLEASE.
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Programmie: Why were you sent to the program!?
Kid: I have no idea, I was kidnapped in the middle of the night and my parents let it happen so...
Programmie: Are you trying to blame your parents for where you are at?
Kid: Well... I don't know. I didn't come here on my own, so the answer to your question is my parents sent me.
Programmie: Wrong! Do you think your parents wanted to spend their hard earned money to send you here? Do you think your siblings and family spending the holidays alone this year feel good that you are here? NO! It is YOUR fault and YOUR fault alone that you are here. Why do you think your parents sent you here, are they rewarding you for good behavior with a vaccation?
Kid: Well, no.. I guess I was doing some bad things, and in a letter my parents told me that I was doing..
Programmie: No! I want you to tell me what you did wrong. I already know what your parents said. You might think that you are their bundle of joy but let me tell you that have had it with you. Take a look around and look where you are. Your behavior and your choices alone brought you here. Your parents saw this destructive behavior and took action to save your life from your negative choices.
Kid: I guess...
Programmie: So are you going to tell everyone why you are here, or are you choosing out of the seminar.
Kid: Well I don't know what you want me to say... I got arrested for stealing cars and doing drugs so I guess thats why they sent me or something...
Programmie: Or something? Do you think you deserved to be rewarded for that kind of negative behavior? It is your choices that brought you here and it is only your choices that will get you out of here. Now tell me why it is you did these things.
Kid: I dont know. Me and my friends would...
Programmie: You are not here because of your friends. Your choices alone brought you here. There are no accidents. You CHOSE to be here through your actions. You chose the path that led to where you are. So obviously your choices are wrong. You need new tools and new decision making skills so you don't end up here again.
Kid: I don't know..
Programmie: Really, I must insist...
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TSW wrote:
Right the movement progresses with yet another MGDP masterpiece. Does your hypocracy know any limits? Obviously not.
It is a wonder any parent would have anything to say to anyone with people like you around.
Your hate filled semantics are far to program like. Your bile leaks program in every word and phrase. Your justifications for your outrage ooze program right down to the last period.
There is something fucked up about you. I have no idea what it is, but for the longest time I passed it off as immaturity. I can't see you being immature, not with this ongoing pattern of personal attacks against everyone who doesn't share your own narrow view.
I am left with three conclusions.
Either you really are a program plant like Might Aardvark suggests.
Your are a program survivor yourself who holds a great deal of rage against your own parents and this is your own impotent way of getting back at them.
You are a fucked in the head 15 year old living in your mom's basement getting his rocks off by playing sick power games with other people's emotions.
Either way. It is my intention to disregard anything you have to say and add to any further discussions here on fornits. You have ran off to many potentially valueable sources of information. I advise anyone else who has any common sense to no longer give MGDP the time of the day. His vitirol has caused more harm to the progress of those who actively give a damn than he has helped.
All the best for you MGDP but you are just another troll. Sadly a troll that has Ginger conned six ways to sunday.
Oh yeah.. Niles check your pm box.
Took the words right outta my mouth. It's the third option....the one I bolded above. On the nosey!! :roll: :rofl:
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i agree anne. Besides what is up with this idea that if a person does not beat their breast and cry on an international forum to perfect stangers they are automatically judged. Some people are the stiff upper lip type. others feel it is not appropriate to share any feelings of guilt with the world. Or this lady may still be processing her feelings toward the whole situation.
Moreover when did it become ok to openly accuse a perfect stanger of being a liar? For fuck sake just let a person be heard, ask questions and quietly draw your own conclusions.
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Shut up you goddamn piece of shit good for nothing liar!
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Shut up you goddamn piece of shit good for nothing liar!
Gee, that was so funny. Where do you come up with that rapier wit? :roll: :roll:
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i agree anne. Besides what is up with this idea that if a person does not beat their breast and cry on an international forum to perfect stangers they are automatically judged. Some people are the stiff upper lip type. others feel it is not appropriate to share any feelings of guilt with the world. Or this lady may still be processing her feelings toward the whole situation.
Moreover when did it become ok to openly accuse a perfect stanger of being a liar? For fuck sake just let a person be heard, ask questions and quietly draw your own conclusions.
I don't know Oz Girl. A lot of things are changing around here and not for the better, IMO.....but then again, it's not my site so it's not for me to say what is and isn't acceptable. If things continue as they are though, I won't be around much. Ginger always says stop doing it if you're not having fun anymore. I think I will in a while, cuz I ain't.
Don't get me wrong, I still believe in Fornits and its message and intention but a lot of aspects lately very much remind me of program thinking and that I can't handle watching. I also still consider her my friend. Friends piss each other off all the time. Hopefully we will work things out.
Ginger and Fornits have both meant a lot to me over the years and I would miss them both dearly if I decided to leave, but we'll just have to see.
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GMDP; I too am puzzled by your frequently naming people trolls or liars. Your are to quick to judge in most cases; and your comments are doing more harm to the debate than good. Make an effort to be still and see how they mature on the board, before making such decisions.
TSW; You might be a little less hostile with GMDP. Using these forums are something of a learning process. Given time and experience he'll learn to be cautious with snap judgments. I think, Partly, it is a natural tendency to totally blame the parents for this industry's issues. A knee jerk reaction to think them all stupid and selfish and everything else negative in the human makeup. I suspect, in time, with more experience, he'll learn to view the parents posting with a more moderate and balanced reaction. At least, I hope so.
GMDP; you can't help the kids in the programs by alienating the parents. People do not listen to those who are attacking them. And while some see any kind of criticism as an attack, others can be reasoned with, if you are more diplomatic in your arguments. They are the ones you can reach and make allies of; and this is an important and worth while goal.
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If I wanted your opinion, I'd beat it out of you with a hammer.
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If I wanted your opinion, I'd beat it out of you with a hammer.
If I wanted to hear any shit outta you, I'd squeeze it out of your head like popping a zit.
Get over yourself. You're not as big and bad as you think honey. :roll:
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If I wanted your opinion, I'd beat it out of you with a hammer.
Its an opinion widely shared; and advice which you may not want, but which you need. You sometimes behave like a Jr. high school brat writing on the bath room walls.
No doubt you are a smart kid with a lot on the ball and some good ideas; but you are to quick to demean and devalue others. You'd be wise to read more and comment less; for a while anyway.
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Mmmm. That last one was tangy. Got any more?
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No speaking out of turn in group!
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No speaking out of turn in group!
:roll: :roll:
He's a little attention freak, the bully on the playground. Ya know, the kid who's always ragging on someone for something....doesn't matter what it is as long as he gets to jump up and down and scream "Look at me!!! Look at me!!! See what a badass I am? See how mean I am?"
Like I said before, get over yourself darlin'. :rofl:
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No speaking out of turn in group!
ME: Yeah i'd like to confront Milk
FECESLATATOR: Go ahead Psy
ME: *inhales*... do you think you're such a big man HUH! You get off on conflict don't you! You enjoy stirring things up don't you! Do you think you're doing a good thing playing the asshole? Do you think parents will listen to you if you beat them down with the truth? Is that supposed to help them? What keeps them from closing the browser and never coming back. Why should they listen to you when they can get comfort ANYWHERE else. Go ahead, drive em into the arms of the programmers. Aw fuck it' You aren't listening. You're always right.
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And Anne's was rather like drinking hazlenut coffee creamer straight from the bottle. Mmmmm. Factually wrong, though. If the local kids at the skate park read your post, Anne, they'd wonder who the fuck you're talking about.
Which is more likely to drive parents away, moderately nasty true statements about horrible child abuse, or multi-page flamewars that the OP most assuredly doesn't care about?
Good going guys. Be sure to dogpile me in public next time this happens. I'll be sure to be twice as mean. :)
Jnzmom and any other program parent reading this (and I know that if you have the least bit of curiosity for what the other side really is, you're still reading this): We're human beings. This is what human beings happen to do to each other from time to time. No one is forced to participate and no one on Fornits speaks for anyone but himself and it's easy to forget that. This is not a "rap" and there is no "group", despite anyone's wishes (and despite the parodies).
Jnzmom, I'll tell you a secret: Most of the locals are of the opinion that you can't handle the truth stated bluntly, and this is why they're jumping down my throat. I have very little respect for you (you sent your kid to TB, after all), but I'll treat you a bit better than that. You had to send your kid to the hospital for a serious untreated infection. I refuse to treat you as if you're too stupid to realize that that means your kid has been seriously neglected, as I simply don't believe in treating people like mental invalids. If you really want to run back to the comforting safety of WWASPS parents telling you that their kids are A-OK in a place where kids are forced to lay on their stomachs on concrete for eight hours a day, that's entirely your decision, but I honestly won't take you for the kind of person who would actually do that. And I won't treat the other WWASPS parents as being too ignorant to realize what's going on, either. You're all adults. You either know better or should.
There. Let the throat-jumping commence!
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I think we should also get Ginger to remove the "I just" thread, and other such garbage on this site. We need to show program parents that we are upstanding citizens worthy of their attention. I think there should be no anonymous posters. Everyone should be required to have a college degree who posts. If anyone posts an insult to a parent they should be banned. We need to define a purpose and anyone who deviates from that purpose should be shunned. We must show the program people we are not what they ssaid we were, druggies and losers. I have a P.H.d. in sociology, so I feel I am properly equipped intellectually to post. But before you do, ask yourself, am I really qualified to make a post at fornits? Do I really understand the ramifications of my actions?
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And Anne's was rather like drinking hazlenut coffee creamer straight from the bottle. Mmmmm. Factually wrong, though. If the local kids at the skate park read your post, Anne, they'd wonder who the fuck you're talking about.
Is that supposed to bother me or something?
Which is more likely to drive parents away, moderately nasty true statements about horrible child abuse, or multi-page flamewars that the OP most assuredly doesn't care about?
Don't know. All I know is that I've had more than just a few parents contact me off the boards for help because they can't stand to deal with you.
Good going guys. Be sure to dogpile me in public next time this happens. I'll be sure to be twice as mean.
Oh Boo-fucking-Hoo. :roll: Hopefully I won't ever have to meet you in public. It's not something I would relish. You can try to be mean...and you are to some people, but to most of us you just come across as a sad little attention whore.
Jnzmom and any other program parent reading this (and I know that if you have the least bit of curiosity for what the other side really is, you're still reading this): We're human beings. This is what human beings happen to do to each other from time to time. No one is forced to participate and no one on Fornits speaks for anyone but himself and it's easy to forget that. This is not a "rap" and there is no "group", despite anyone's wishes (and despite the parodies).
Agreed.
Jnzmom, I'll tell you a secret: Most of the locals are of the opinion that you can't handle the truth stated bluntly, and this is why they're jumping down my throat.
Speak for yourself moron. That's not how I think at all.
I have very little respect for you (you sent your kid to TB, after all), but I'll treat you a bit better than that. You had to send your kid to the hospital for a serious untreated infection. I refuse to treat you as if you're too stupid to realize that that means your kid has been seriously neglected, as I simply don't believe in treating people like mental invalids. If you really want to run back to the comforting safety of WWASPS parents telling you that their kids are A-OK in a place where kids are forced to lay on their stomachs on concrete for eight hours a day, that's entirely your decision, but I honestly won't take you for the kind of person who would actually do that. And I won't treat the other WWASPS parents as being too ignorant to realize what's going on, either. You're all adults. You either know better or should.
I don't think that's it at all. I've had plenty of run-ins here with people. I'm a little more selective about it than you are. Some parents are as you described above, but not all of them.
You carry on with your little self-promotional tantrums and practically demanding donations from people (when the fuck did THAT start? "say it with money" :roll: ::both:: )and I'll continue to talk with these people off the boards.
There. Let the throat-jumping commence!
No throat jumping. There are a lot of us who have felt this way for a while, I'm just saying it out loud. I could give a shit what you think of me. You're just an angry little boy who's found the perfect "cause" to vomit his rage all over everyone.
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I think we should also get Ginger to remove the "I just" thread, and other such garbage on this site. We need to show program parents that we are upstanding citizens worthy of their attention. I think there should be no anonymous posters. Everyone should be required to have a college degree who posts. If anyone posts an insult to a parent they should be banned. We need to define a purpose and anyone who deviates from that purpose should be shunned. We must show the program people we are not what they ssaid we were, druggies and losers. I have a P.H.d. in sociology, so I feel I am properly equipped intellectually to post. But before you do, ask yourself, am I really qualified to make a post at fornits? Do I really understand the ramifications of my actions?
:rofl: :rofl: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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(http://http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/05/300px-Days2004logo.jpg)
::drummer:: ::deal:: ::cheers::
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(http://http://frase.id.au/pics/waaambulance_533.jpg)
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Honey, you ain't upsetting me. I was asked to post what I have regarding you. You're like an annoying little gnat buzzing around here to most of us. I guess you've really gotten to a few other people (and I'm not talking about program parents but some of us program vets). They know that I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of me here anymore so they asked me to speak up and I did.
As I've said before, you're an angry little kid who happened upon a forum that you could join and have an outlet for whatever the hell your problem is. I don't want you to leave, nor would it matter if I did. It ain't my forum. I'll just speak up every now and then when you're being a dick. You're pretty much a dick all the time so I'll just have to be selective in what I respond to. Or wait for someone to email me and ask me to respond.
Have fun monkeyboy. ::bwahaha2:: ::both::
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Ironically, the first and only place I heard the term "whambulance" actually used in real life was at a wwasps program. The fat bitch of a family mother would use it to shut up kids who started complaining. Effective it was, for a grown woman, the only mother figure in the young boys lives to immasculate them like that in front of their peers like that. At wwasps it wasn't raps it was feedback. When everyone ganged up on you, the standard was for everyone to yell "agreed". It would go something like this.
Kid 1: I think you are being fake.
Kid 2: Fuck you.
Kid 1: See how fake you are!
Group: AGREED!
:roll:
:rofl:
Now back to my christmas cookies.
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Jnzmom and any other program parent reading this (and I know that if you have the least bit of curiosity for what the other side really is, you're still reading this): We're human beings. This is what human beings happen to do to each other from time to time. No one is forced to participate and no one on Fornits speaks for anyone but himself and it's easy to forget that. This is not a "rap" and there is no "group", despite anyone's wishes (and despite the parodies).
I've heard that Jnzmom is gone. Consequently, this thread has morphed into people giving you feedback about your potential role in that, and in general.
Re: the statement in the above quote, we do speak for ourselves, and I personally would appreciate you noticing how often you use the word "we", and sometimes when you're being "mean". I'd prefer you speak for yourself. There is no consensus on Fornits. No one can speak for everyone. Because you are listed as an Administrator, anyone new to the site might assume that your use of the word "we" does constitute a consensus.
Jnzmom, I'll tell you a secret: Most of the locals are of the opinion that you can't handle the truth stated bluntly, and this is why they're jumping down my throat.
Just my perspective, but this isn't about the "truth stated bluntly". That happens everyday on Fornits.
It appears to me to be a race... to be the first to identify a troll. Not wanting to be taken/deceived by a troll.
It will happen.
Anything's possible, but I saw no indicators that this woman was a troll.
And, if you are concerned about being taken, just as you said to the alleged troll, you don't have to read. You can avoid any thread in which others are engaged in dialogue with someone 'you' think is a troll.
There. Let the throat-jumping commence!
That is not my intention. But, I do think you've been given some "truth stated bluntly" to consider. I know that several people have discussed this with you in private, just a matter of time before the boil errupted on the forum.
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Some around here would have us treat anyone who claims to be a program parent, as royalty. Personally I disagree, but I just want to know from anyone who feels like answering today... what exactly is it that these program parents have that you need? What information could they possibly provide that you don't already know, or couldn't find out another way? Are you trying to organize parents into a group or something? I just don't get it I guess. We know how WWASPS treats parents, what they do, the literature they receive, we know it all. What is so important that JNZMOM could have told you, that might have made a difference in shutting these programs down.
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What is so important that JNZMOM could have told you, that might have made a difference in shutting these programs down.
The 35 email addresses.
In retrospect that is so unlikely as to be laughable. People, especially brainwashed people, don't do that. They sit around quietly and let the detractors get hustled out the door.
Remember, there are less than 200 kids locked up in that particular hellhole. For a full 35 people to email her would mean that not only were a sixth of the parents reading that forum between the time the message was posted and it was deleted (a highly unlikely proposition, considering the tiny percentage of other programmed parents who post on any forum at all), but they all emailed her about it. Not fucking happening! The math just doesn't work out.
And if she really has stopped reading this forum then it probably wasn't the place for her anyway. I know that people are trying to get in touch with her privately. G'luck on that one. Don't be surprised when her other contact details are suddenly unavailable, too.
Overall, though, it was an extremely well done troll.
[troll10]
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I've heard that Jnzmom is gone.
No, am not gone. I was taking time to spend a wonderful Christmas with my husband, and both my sons. Anyone, I wouldnt give milk the time of day to get rid of me. As I see it, he has not personal knowledge of being a parent or a child that was sent to these programs. So whatever is said by him, I just disregard anyways. No biggie. I know who I am and my experiences with WWASP, he has no clue. Just because a few dont believe me, thats up to them. I am not letting that affect me. I have had good responses from people that I would rather put energy into.
Hope you all had a good Christmas. My son was very happy to be home spending it with us.
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JNZ mom, I'm glad you had a nice Christmas.
GMDP - you write:
Remember, there are less than 200 kids locked up in that particular hellhole. For a full 35 people to email her would mean that not only were a sixth of the parents reading that forum between the time the message was posted and it was deleted (a highly unlikely proposition, considering the tiny percentage of other programmed parents who post on any forum at all), but they all emailed her about it. Not fucking happening! The math just doesn't work out.
It is absolutely possible she got a slew of Email. 35 is a high number if your talking strictly program parents - but still possible. The BBS people network much as "we" net work. If two or three happened to see it before it got yanked, it could easily get passed around to several score more; and many of them might feel interested enough to write.
Also it is very possible the programmed will want to fish for info, to pass along to the program. And many will simply feel compelled to write and tell her how she has been a bad, bad parent, who has damed her son to death or jail. The program staff might even pass out her info to the dependably programmed, to do just that.
I have at times also been swamped with email and I know how the numbers can swell as things get passed around.
I have heard that the Program has removed email info from the BBS users profiles to make passing info off board more difficult. I even heard that they did away with the general baord, to stop program parents from differing schools being able to share thoughts, concerns and info. I have not been able to get these reports verified, but even if this is all true - people meet at support group meetings and the Parent Child seminairs, and no doubt contact info gets shared, and off board net working takes place.
You really should practice more patience before popping off.
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I'm glad you're still around.
Regarding how all of us might act sometimes, all I have to say is this is what these places do to people! Its not personal so much as bringing back old pain becuase of what was done to them by their parents can hurt, and in my case I just can't understand being tricked like that, because I haven't been tricked.
Also, I was never in a program myself, Im one of the rare people who came by without any prior involvement and decided to care and was able to understand, more or less.
I have a better understanding than most people who have not heard of these places before, so I know all the tricks... you did not.
I also know about the seminars and that brainwashing nonsense, whereas you did not until after it was done to you. Time and some education will help get that out of your skull, don't worry :P
BTW, have you found a shrink for the kid yet before you put him back in public school? I'd really recommend getting him with a therapist and getting a psych. profile done and at least a intake before putting him in a public school, he might not be able to handle that.
At any rate, I'm glad you and your kids were able to enjoy Christmas with eachother...
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Thanks! He wants to jump right back into Jr High. His dean, myself, his father are against it. There is a youth transition day program that I feel would help him. They have "real" therapy to help him transition back into life, school and deal with what he has gone through. I get the feeling from him, that anything that has the word "program" in it, he is not willing to do. Which I dont blame him. I told him will go visit and if he still is against it, we will try regular jr high. I know now I have to listen to him, as well as be a parent. Yes, we are working on getting him into a psychologist soon.
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What seminars did your son go through before he was pulled?
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He went to Orientation at Midwest. That was it. He never received the points to go on to Discovery at TB.
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Oh, okay. What was the highest level that he reached? Were you ever able to speak with him on the phone?
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No.. he never reached past Level 1
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What is the name and location of this day program?
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How many points do you need to go to a seminar?
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How many points do you think the kids need to go to a seminar?
(damn filter!)
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I was told that he at least needed positive points and show improvement to be able to go. TB was more stricter on who was invited to go to Discovery. By then end of the night he was always at negative points.
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Funny, I've never heard, not from one person ever, that you need points to go to the seminars. Kids told me that they would go to discovery the day after they arrived, if that is when the seminar came. Weird, huh? How about at Midwest, he was there for several months right. Why didn't he go to discovery there? As far as I know, they come around every two months and everyone has to go.
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Yes at Midwest he went to Orientation asap cause it was the week after. He choose out as they say. He said because he didnt cry enough. Then he went to the next one. I was told by his rep at TB that they are more stricter. They have to go to accountability first, then if they have points and have proven themselves they can go to discovery. The next one for him was a few weeks ago and he didnt go to it.
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Funny, I've never heard, not from one person ever, that you need points to go to the seminars. Kids told me that they would go to discovery the day after they arrived, if that is when the seminar came. Weird, huh?
.
Question for you? Is that from what you have been told or experienced? I am going with what my son experienced and told me.
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Yes at Midwest he went to Orientation asap cause it was the week after. He choose out as they say. He said because he didnt cry enough. Then he went to the next one. I was told by his rep at TB that they are more stricter. They have to go to accountability first, then if they have points and have proven themselves they can go to discovery. The next one for him was a few weeks ago and he didnt go to it.
Orientation is when a couple upper levels walked the kid around the facility and showed you the ropes, and you spent a couple days attached to another kid to tell you whats up. "Orientation" is not a seminar, so I don't know how you could choose out of that.
Discovery is the first seminar the kids go to, regardless of points. If they were withholding the seminars from your kid, then what on EARTH were you paying for? That is the 'therapuetic' aspect of the program. If he was in the program for eight months there should have been at least three or even four chances to go through the seminars. Accountability is the third seminar. Why don't you tell us what the second seminar is called, ask your son if you don't know.
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According to the program my son went through.... Orientation is the first seminar he went through. It was not what you described, it was a 2 day seminar. Then at Midwest... it was discovery, focus, pc1 ect... At TB.. they do orientation, which my son went through at Midwest, then they have a one day seminar of accountability that they have to pass to move on. If they show progress and have positive points they go to discovery.
I am just sharing what we experienced with the seminars. The parents start with Discovery right off the bat.
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Oh okay they must have changed it or something then I guess.
Did you do discovery and focus and anything past that? How was your own experience at the seminars? What did you think of them?
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Yes at Midwest he went to Orientation asap cause it was the week after. He choose out as they say. He said because he didnt cry enough. Then he went to the next one. I was told by his rep at TB that they are more stricter. They have to go to accountability first, then if they have points and have proven themselves they can go to discovery. The next one for him was a few weeks ago and he didnt go to it.
Orientation is when a couple upper levels walked the kid around the facility and showed you the ropes, and you spent a couple days attached to another kid to tell you whats up. "Orientation" is not a seminar, so I don't know how you could choose out of that.
Discovery is the first seminar the kids go to, regardless of points. If they were withholding the seminars from your kid, then what on EARTH were you paying for? That is the 'therapuetic' aspect of the program. If he was in the program for eight months there should have been at least three or even four chances to go through the seminars. Accountability is the third seminar. Why don't you tell us what the second seminar is called, ask your son if you don't know.
That was the old system: Discovery, Focus, Accountability. It was changed way back in 2003, and it is now as JNZmom describes it: a kid goes thru "Orientation", a seminar designed to soften him/her up for Discovery, almost as soon as s/he arrives at a WWASPS facility. Accountability was cancelled-- I think it was replaced by a seminar called "Principles" (same bullshit, different name).
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Funny, I've never heard, not from one person ever, that you need points to go to the seminars. Kids told me that they would go to discovery the day after they arrived, if that is when the seminar came. Weird, huh?
.
Question for you? Is that from what you have been told or experienced? I am going with what my son experienced and told me.
Both, from what I experience and what I read from other kids. Granted time has passed and things like seminars might not be the same, this all seems kind of weird to me. A 13 year old being sent to TB, and him being on level 1 the whole time, never going to seminars. This sounds like a horrible situation for that kid, he must have been treated pretty bad I imagine. To remain on level 1 for that kind of time, you have to actively resist, and fight it at every step pretty much. For a 13 year old that's surprising, but I can see that happening I guess. For him to be transfered to TB, shocks me, and that's why I am suspicious of trolling. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Was he in isolation the whole time? They might have called it something else like special care or something like that. Pardon me if i am out of line, but doesn't this all bother you more? It seems like you are so logical and everything about this. I guess that is why it strikes me as weird.
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I only went to Discovery. Which I did get alot out of my own issues, I came to terms with somethings that I probably wouldnt have if I didnt go. To be honest... I was planning on going to Focus, which I never did. I was told it was hard. But... my son said "Did you get the High to keep me there?" He said that he learned "that a high does not need to come from drugs but.. an emotional high. Makes sense. Since he learned this and never has done drugs.
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You didn't miss much with focus, same emotional group games, more beating the ground with towels wrapped with duct tape. Yeah the emotional high is nice, but it's 100% faked. It's a lot different when the people holding you up in your discovery love circle are you jailers. Some kids from the old days still go back to staff for that high, god bless 'em. :roll:
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Both, from what I experience and what I read from other kids. Granted time has passed and things like seminars might not be the same, this all seems kind of weird to me. A 13 year old being sent to TB, and him being on level 1 the whole time, never going to seminars. This sounds like a horrible situation for that kid, he must have been treated pretty bad I imagine. To remain on level 1 for that kind of time, you have to actively resist, and fight it at every step pretty much. For a 13 year old that's surprising, but I can see that happening I guess. For him to be transfered to TB, shocks me, and that's why I am suspicious of trolling. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Was he in isolation the whole time? They might have called it something else like special care or something like that. Pardon me if i am out of line, but doesn't this all bother you more? It seems like you are so logical and everything about this. I guess that is why it strikes me as weird.
What I was told why he was transferred to TB, is not what my son told me that happened. He said cause he was annoying and they didnt want to deal with him anymore. He was in and out of intervention all the time. They told me that he was total resistant and it was two choices within 24hrs. That was after 3 mths. They said home or TB. So we had an emergency meeting of our whole extended family. We "thought" he was testing the waters and had to prove to him we were serious. So we sent him to TB. I have had anxieties ever since he went there. I was caution and open to all possibilities. At Tb is was in and out of OP. He wasnt there more then a day or so and got himself out, not that makes a difference. I finally saw the red flag and pulled him. When I finally saw him and spoke with him in 8 mths, I listened to him and could see he was telling the truth.
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What kind of stuff did he write in his letters? Did he talk about abuse at all? Did you seem like his personality was changing? Now that you look back on the letters, do you see things you wish you would have noticed that you did not see before realizing TB is a gulag?
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Nothing about this mom's emotional detachment post-pull rings true to me except the part about the Mom admitting she has "issues". That much I do believe is true with about 99.9% of the parents who turn to these programs as the solution for conflict in the home. It's also possible this "mom" is a poser. Wouldn't be the first or the last time. Has anyone actually confirmed her to be the real deal? I don't mean yahooing or pm'ing either. I mean seen a copy of her kid's contract with her signature on it? :lol:
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No, not really. His early letters were just him, promising to change, ect. Which he has for many years. Then the last few letters drew red flags that I acted on. He kept on telling me.... I have so much that I cant say, cause i will get in trouble. The letters got more to where he was not asking to come home, but I have to tell you something. He was ready to commit to the program and stay for 5 yrs but that he really needed to tell me the truth. That was not manipulation.
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Has anyone actually confirmed her to be the real deal? I don't mean yahooing or pm'ing either. I mean seen a copy of her kid's contract with her signature on it? :lol:
A quote from someone that is a "Guest" who will not post with a username.
Do I need to defend further to this?
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[You dont need to do anything, freedom is wonderful in that way.
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Thank you! Let Freedom Ring!
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I am curious who was your Discovery facilitator? This can actually make a big difference whether it is a positive or negative experience.
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No really! I actually had a positive experience. I know some didnt and left the first day.
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Who was the facilitator?
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I think its a good idea to look into a transitional day program for school. as long as he doesnt reside at the program and its only for schooling, its probably state monitored. make sure you ask where their state credentials are and be sure that the program is versed on his background. additionally it would probably help to visit the program with him. instead of a transitional program, a private school would probably cost the same and give you the added benefit of focused classes that meet him at his level.
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Who was the facilitator?
Oh, great question Anon! Perhaps TB Mom overlooked the question or doesn't realize the significance of the question.
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I would get SPECIFICS about this "youth transition day program". I would get SPECIFICS about if they would ever cut off communication or hold him captive in any way or how they do punitive measures or any of their 'structure'.
And anything CONFRONTATIONAL... big fat no-no!!! The point here is he needs to learn to be a free person again not a damn captive puppet who isn't done being stepforded.
I do find it odd that he "chose out" of the seminar for "not crying enough". That kind of just stinks of LGAT bullshit, considering the entire point is to cause an emotional breakdown... no?
Also, JNZmom, the emotional 'high' you get from a seminar is a pathological effect. Its just like the euphoria you get after any stressful/traumatic event is over and you feel better when you're not being hurt anymore.
I strongly suggest you read up about just how these things manipulate and screw with people's heads... http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awar ... hology.htm (http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/pathology.htm) <- is a good write up done by trained professionals (yanno, actual psychologists!) that can help shed some light on what they did to you and others and how it is done.
I'll go ahead and paste the conclusion here...
CONCLUSION
We have argued that while many participants experienced a sense of enhanced well-being as a consequence of the training, these experiences were essentially pathological. First, ego functions were systematically undermined and regression was promoted by environmental structuring, infantilizing of participants and repeated emphasis on submission and surrender. Second, the ideational or interpretive framework provided in the training was also based upon regressive modes of reasoning--the use of all-or-nothing categories, absolutist logic and magical thinking, all of which are consistent with the egocentric thinking of young children. Third, the content of the training stimulated early narcissistic conflicts and defenses, which accounts for the elation and sense of heightened well-being achieved by many participants. The devaluation of objective constraints upon a person's action promoted grandiose fantasies of unlimited power. A corollary to this devaluation of the external world wits that interactions with others lacked substance. People appeared to be interchangeable so that ephemeral, indiscriminate emotional contacts were experienced as profound and meaningful. Identification with Lifespring necessitated considerable idealization so that any threat to this experience was aggressively defended against.
Our methods had an effect on our experience of the training and on our conclusions. The Lifespring Basic training, which demands full participation and rejects the legitimacy of observation, provided a particular challenge to the participant-observation method. In the Lifespring milieu any evidence of observation became evidence for the need for further "growth," for getting away from analysis or "intellectual trips." Lack of full emotional involvement in the training thus set the authors apart from the-group and led us to experience the training differently from the rest of the participants. As a result, we are not qualified to speak from the point of view of the "average participant." We did not, to use Lifespring's words, "got the training."
However, as parficipant-observers, we did share some of the group's subjective experiences, particularly the extraordinary pressure to conform. In this instance, the context of participant-observation, which as Rabinow (1977) says is dictated by "observation and externality," provided us with the opportunity to note the lengths to which the trainer was willing to go in attempting to achieve the required submission and commitment which we have described In this paper. Thus participant-observation, although a research strategy not. suited to fully integrating the researcher into the Lifespring Basic Training, did prove to be invaluable for developing insight into the processes of that training.
We have not addressed the normative implications of the training nor the extent to which participants are prepared by our culture to respond positively to Lifespring. The ideational content of the training would he less persuasive, perhaps, if beliefs concerning the autonomy and power of the individual were not deeply embedded in the prevailing ideology of American society. Growth organizations seem to be capitalizing upon the erosion of traditional means of supporting these beliefs and of anchoring individual identity. A deeper understanding of this phenomenon would require an analysis of the sociohistorical context out of which it emerged and from which it has gained its legitimacy.
IOW, its bullshit and basically just filled you full of nonsense. You didn't really face any issues you just got given a lovebomb after being broken down.
Or in the words of so many, they blew sunshine up your ass.
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Who was the facilitator?
Oh, great question Anon! Perhaps TB Mom overlooked the question or doesn't realize the significance of the question.
If a facilitator can make a LGAT good or bad does the rapist make rape good or bad?
And dont even get into rape vs BDSM, the former is unconsentual, the latter has people at every step giving a willing participant safewords, safer sex information and just general safety nonsense and "SAFE SANE AND CONSENTUAL" over and over, something a seminar NEVER is.
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It actually makes a pretty big difference in this case.
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SPECIFICS? Or just "well it does cos I say so"?
Becuase here, you can't just say so... there's nobody to put us in OP if we say "nuh uh".
And to me its still like saying "well the rapist makes the rape good or bad".
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I can just say no. See, I just did.
And to me its still like saying "well the rapist makes the rape good or bad".
:-? :rofl:
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Yep, but apparently that anon thinks you can force someone into a towel-slapping, mind-fucking LGAT and make it good instead of bad, depending on who leads and pushes the buttons.
So I guess I can rape someone good instead of bad if Gilcrease teaches me how? I'll sign right up!
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I don't know anything about rape, sorry.
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Well then explain how a seminar can be done nonconsentually but 'good' depending on the facilitator, please.
I mean, psychological, emotional rape vs 'physical rape', how different can it be?
BTW, I've had at least one person tell me gang rape is preferrable to going through a rap... so yeah, do explain!
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Seek answers elsewhere. Jnzmom, when you posts again I'd be curious to know who the facilitator was.
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Ok, so, you say it can make it good, but can't explain why?
You can't just say something and not back it up! The reversal of the burden of proof is one of the biggest things the programs do and get away with way too much.
Until you start explaining, I'm gonna keep saying bullshit.
So, bullshit!
:wave:
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Good, I like that.
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Who are you anyway?
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Carol! Does that help anything? I think not.
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I was asking the anonymous "guest" about how a facilitator can make an inherantly abusive, nonconsentual mindfuck 'good'.
Nice to meet you though, Carol.
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Carol! Does that help anything? I think not.
I agree. To me, you're just another wayward parent who should have spared their kid a $40k nightmarish wake-up call by enrolling yourself in a LGAT seminar aimed at reducing you to a child-like state of euphoria and when that wore off, signed yourself up for another round of mind numbing magical child doping until you no longer can even remember what critical thinking skills are.
:roll:
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Carol! Does that help anything? I think not.
No, it doesn't. You've offered no useful information at all.
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For those of you with suspicions- I've left the thread. All the nastiness is occurring without my help.
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(http://http://www.resourcerealizations.com/m/i/th/cc_shadow.jpg)
Carol Clark
Senior Facilitator - Communication Skills Coach
Carol Clark brings over 30 years of experience in training, education, curriculum development and training of others. She is an outstanding facilitator/consultant as well as a gifted motivational speaker. Carol began her career in the field of education, teaching students in both junior and senior high school. She did this for many years, receiving many awards and recognition for outstanding achievement and performance, continually being chosen for Teacher Leadership. One summer, Carol was one of 25 teachers in the Boston area selected to participate in the Harvard Center for Research and Development on Educational Differences.
Over the years Carol has also worked with thousands of clients in organizations around the world, working with all levels within an organization, group sizes, and content areas (i.e., leadership/management, sales, customer service, change management, personal and organizational change, and professional presentation skills). Some of these organizations have been AT&T, British Airways, Chevron, DuPont, Eli Lilly, General Motors, Honeywell, IBM, Kraft Foods, Power Bar/Nestle and the United States Postal Service. She is comfortable working with executives as well as plant staff and has facilitated groups in size from 5 to 300. Neither the age nor the gender of an audience has made any difference to Carol as she does well with any mixture of participants.
During her years at Wilson Learning Corporation in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Carol served as a Senior Trainer and Consultant. She became one of few Master Trainers at Wilson, and because of her extensive experience, particularly her wide repertoire and knowledge in many different areas, was frequently asked to conduct developmental trials and ?high risk? sessions with clients on new products and programs. Joining the Pecos River Division of Aon Consulting, Inc., as Vice President and Senior Facilitator, her leadership abilities included leading the very large group of facilitators and administrative staff. Given the many roles and responsibilities Carol has handled over the years, she has successfully coached many, many employees to grow, learn and develop into higher level of competencies, confidence, professionalism, and leadership.
Working as a Senior Trainer with Resource Realizations allows Carol to bring to this audience all of her extensive background and experience. Her ability to work with individuals and groups is excellent as she gains trust very quickly due to her passion and enthusiasm for assisting people to create their desired results. She strives incessantly to provide a learning environment where everyone can learn, grow and be successful in their path forward.
Carol?s educational background includes a B.S. in Education from Ohio University, Athens, Ohio; and an M.A. in Sociology from Portland State University in Portland, Oregon.
Carol has extensive personal and professional world travel experiences, including camping in the Serengeti for three weeks; riding the Trans-Siberian Railroad through Siberia, Mongolia, and China; boating across northern Thailand; bungee jumping in New Zealand; hiking in the jungles of the Amazon; and visiting Antarctica where she landed on her seventh continent!
She resides in Depoe Bay, Oregon, in a home she built at the ocean
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I was asking the anonymous "guest" about how a facilitator can make an inherantly abusive, nonconsentual mindfuck 'good'.
Nice to meet you though, Carol.
No my name is not Carol.
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Well now we know who the facilitator was.
Too bad nobody could answer to me why if she lead the psycho cryfest mindfuck it was particularly less bad than if anyone else did :roll:
Oh well, thats probably because thats not true.
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TB Mom,
Did you know there is a Documentary called "Tranquility Bay" that is an hour long expose on the facility you sent your son to? Have you seen this documentary? If not I suggest you do, it's very informative.
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And I suggest you get a psych. on speed-dial :( it's hard to watch.
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I rewatched the documentary today. Chilling.
TB MOM if you cannot locate it post here, I know where you can get a copy if you want one.
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You can try and hope there is enough seeders.
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Yes, I was searching for that film for weeks. I finally watched it before it went down on the sight. Within a week I pulled my son. It is a great example of what TB is. I did have another parent that wants to talk to me on the phone about it. So wish me luck!!!
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Yes, I was searching for that film for weeks. I finally watched it before it went down on the sight. Within a week I pulled my son. It is a great example of what TB is. I did have another parent that wants to talk to me on the phone about it. So wish me luck!!!
Copy that movie and send it out to the parents. A picture speaks a thousand words. If any parent saw that documentary and still sent their kid to wwasps or didnt pull them out, they are child abusers.
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Yeah their lawyers were all over that shit. They were contacting every forum, group and internet site the links were posted on to immediately removed them. So I don't know. But I hope it gets up somewhere and gets seen more because I dont think parents really believe it until they see it. (given a reality check they sorely need)
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Glad to you're still posting jnz.... But yeah I got the movie off of bittorent, difficult watch but very necessary. Goodluck with the parent jnz....
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Rather than speculate, why doesn't someone get to the bottom of why this documentary is not being shown in the U.S.? After all, it is about an issue that involves a controversial issue in the U.S.A. not France.
Me thinks there is MORE to this than we know. Lawsuits? Filed by whom? That's a question that should NOT be too difficult to answer and yet those "in the know" who could shed some light on this question aren't talking.
WHY?
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I would really like to see the 90 minute version. I have been trying to get a copy and been sending emails so far no luck.
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Apropos of nobody in particular, people with a lot to hide and a big, lucrative scam to protect will frequently threaten those telling the truth about them with frivolous defamation suits.
There is a whole lot of money changing hands in the troubled teen industry in general.
There is a whole lot of smoke there.
I haven't seen it myself, but I've heard the movie in question was very uncomplimentary towards WWASPS and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd want it suppressed.
Julie
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90min version?! Where ya get that from, cause I want it. The one I have is only 50-something mins