Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 15, 2006, 08:27:54 AM
-
Are all these people this fucking pompous, ignorant and arrogant?
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=001246 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001246)
Dear Sallie,
You seem confident this was the best way to address your son and family's problems. I do not agree with how you are handling the situation. Even if he had a year in TBS and a stint in wilderness, he might have needed to be out of your home and the community until he was older and finished HS. I found the year from 17-18 the most productive and the most growth in that year for my daughter in the TBS.
I felt my moral duty and responsibility as a parent was to make sure my kid had adult oversight at a TBS until she turned 18 and finished high school (that took more then two years out of the house and community). Setting your son loose to the world at 17 and letting other parents and his underage friends watch over your child does not seem responsible or a likely path to sobriety for your son. I wish you luck and that you actually have the outcome you expect from the decision to set your underage child free of parental oversight.
Why didn't you choose to send him to some type of boarding school unitl he turned 18 and for the last year of HS?
Mose
-
Yes.
-
This, class, would be called projection.
-
I felt my moral duty and responsibility as a parent was to make sure my kid had adult oversight at a TBS until she turned 18...
Boy, this sure says a lot, doesn't it? [i/i]This[/i] is now an accepted view of parental responsibility? SCARY!
-
I felt my moral duty and responsibility as a parent was to make sure my kid had adult oversight at a TBS until she turned 18...
Boy, this sure says a lot, doesn't it? This is now an accepted view of parental responsibility? SCARY!
Messed up the italics. THIS is how it should read! But, yeah, this is a scary, scary thought...
-
You all missed the part where she recommended an "emotional growth" school in Costa Rica. Dundee Ranch? Or are there other torture camps in Costa Rica that I'm not aware of?
That's just beautiful! This poor kid is about to celebrate his 18th birthday and mom is getting advice to ship him off to Costa Rica for one last hurrah of abuse before he can legally tell his parents to fuck off and then decide never to speak to them again.
-
Here it is, from a parent who has more "worst useless advice" than common sense. She call herself "mose," which I think must be an acronym for "Moron Of Staggering Ego" :
"What does your gut tell you to do?
I and so many of us on this forum have gotten some of the worst useless advice from our childrens local therapists(I'm a person who adores therapy and therapists, I just think local ones for kids like ours are not helpful enough in supporting out of the community placements and drug rehab) so I would take what they say with a grain of salt. His old TBS might not be able to facilitate helping him anymore so they do not know what else to say.
I also had a runner like Abbey so I can understand when a kid disappears and there are not as many options. That's why i did the two year until HS was over. Your son sounds so willing but might need a better place then home to finish growing up, a safe place he can learn to be a man.
He sounds imature, but willing on some level to receive help, have you considered that you can have influence if you have the financial ability to continue facilitating a boarding program for him. I've read about some interesting emotional growth programs in the USA and in Costa Rica that are not punitive and very safe places for kids his age where he can finish HS and/or start college classes."
-
these poor, poor program parents. just how will they cope with their sadness? of course, karen weighs in to tell the parent what to do.
"i screwed my kid out of a college education and a normal life - feel sorry for ME!" :cry2:
:roll: what a fucking jerk!
************************************************************************************
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818
posted April 09, 2006 03:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I attended a seminar today given by an EC in our city. I feel very sad because my son is away at his TBS, and the parents of my son's friends were there.
The seminar was aimed at parents of current juniors (some of the kids were there as well) and how, when..to apply to colleges for fall 2007.
Our issue is that we have planned for our son who just finished 11th grade(at TBS), to finish his senior year at his TBS and will graduate (academically) the end of August. He has not taken SAT's or ACT's but will have taken both within the month. In short, it is way too late to apply for this fall to college.
The plan is for him to take a few classes at a local community college and get a part-time job. He will need to look into programs, visit colleges etc.. as soon as he comes home in the fall.
My question is how do colleges look at the kids who spent 2 years in a regular public high school and 2 years at a TBS? I feel that he is not a "normal" college applicant. I sat there at this meeting this morning feeling much like I did when I saw all of my son's friends driving, going to the prom etc.. that how is my son going to be part of their world when he comes back home? (these are the "good" kids)
Part of me feels that I made a horrible mistake in sending him to WC/TBS. He was smoking pot on a daily basis and we felt that he needed to go to these programs to find out why he was self-medicating. The TBS is addressing those issues now. I know in my heart that we did the right thing, but now, as we look to his future life (post TBS) I am not sure where he fits in anymore. I certainly don't fit in anymore with the parents at that meeting (talking about early decision, AP and honor's courses etc). It has saddened me that I feel lost and that if I am feeling this way, how is my son going to feel when he comes home? Any suggestions from parents ahead of me? Thanks. Helene
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 167 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 68.162.166.87 |
RandomWalk
Member
Member # 3697
posted April 09, 2006 04:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does change things, but it is still very possible to go to a good college and have a wonderful experience. My son's former TBS also graduated classes in August and December (also May). The August/December kids frequently delayed their college starts. It IS possible to get a January admission to some schools- especially state schools, so don't overlook that option. Other kids do a term or two at community college and then move to a 4 year college. Your TBS should be working with you on this. My son's TBS had fairly strong academics and worked with the kids on recommendations, transcripts etc. You will need to arrange for all this with the TBS. You might also consider a PG (postgrad) year at a regular boarding school. This would allow your son to make friends and go through the college application process with a group of peers.
Our son left his TBS early for this very reason. He was due to finish the TBS with 1 semester left in senior year. He did NOT want to stay longer, and he needed some other academic and athletic opportunities. He wound up doing a repeat junior year and a senior year at a prep boarding school, and received acceptances to some great colleges. He will be attending UPenn next fall. He did have some explanations to attach on his applications. He had to explain some suspensions and an expulsion from his school prior to TBS. Believe it or not, many college admissions reps look favorably on kids with a good record at a TBS. They have addressed their issues and moved on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 570 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2003 | Logged: 70.251.113.242 |
***********************************************************************************
tell us again, karen, how your son DIDN'T repeat a grade. you tell so many stories you can't even keep 'em straight.
-
She never said he didn't repeat a grade. She said he didn't flunk a grade. Many kids repeat a year to start a prep school, especially since it is not advisable to start as a senior. Is this concept too much for your stupid pea brain to handle? Get it- DIDNT FLUNK. VOLUNTARILY DID A SECOND YEAR.
And the point of bringing back posts from April is??????
No, I am not Karen.
-
I note a lot of strggling teens parents claim they don't trust the advice of trained local therapists. i think it is because the therapist may often advise that sending a troubled kid into isolation from their comminuty is a BAD idea!
What i dont get is that they will question this but be far more passive about the advice of an Ed con who may be getting kickbacks from a gulag in a largely unregulated industry & who has no provable independence whatsoever.
perhaps in some cases, it is not about helping the kid but letting someone else deal with a child who is a pain in the arse!
-
I note a lot of strggling teens parents claim they don't trust the advice of trained local therapists. i think it is because the therapist may often advise that sending a troubled kid into isolation from their comminuty is a BAD idea!
What i dont get is that they will question this but be far more passive about the advice of an Ed con who may be getting kickbacks from a gulag in a largely unregulated industry & who has no provable independence whatsoever.
perhaps in some cases, it is not about helping the kid but letting someone else deal with a child who is a pain in the arse!
I think you nailed it. Good therapists know that these programs are not helpful and are often harmful. Good therapists also know that there are no sure bets, no guarantees. Some parents desperately want to believe the EdCon or the program marketers who tell them "we can fix your kid for you." It's like they want to be lied to, because they want to get the kid out of the house, out of their lives for awhile, and they want someone to reassure them that somehow this will be good for their kid.
The programs don't exist to help the kids, they exist to help the parents.
-
I note a lot of strggling teens parents claim they don't trust the advice of trained local therapists. i think it is because the therapist may often advise that sending a troubled kid into isolation from their comminuty is a BAD idea!
What i dont get is that they will question this but be far more passive about the advice of an Ed con who may be getting kickbacks from a gulag in a largely unregulated industry & who has no provable independence whatsoever.
perhaps in some cases, it is not about helping the kid but letting someone else deal with a child who is a pain in the arse!
Actually, that's not it. The problem with most therapists is that they lack adequate competence with the issues being presented ... period. Certainly that is too often the case. Session after session of "how do you feel about that", "what did you do about it", and back to "how do you feel about that" without advice doesn't help someone get a grip on today.
It is a minority of therapists who understand the range of alternatives, including different therapeutic approaches they could take. Those different approaches might start with involving the whole family in communication sessions - although sometimes the therapists themselves have their own communicatioin issues, so would be a poor teacher of others.
The other matter is that for a therapist to advise "sending the kid away" is tantamount to admitting they can't get important change to come about - they "failed". So ego keeps them from recommending what can be very useful things (tho you wouldn't agree; another issue). Of course, often they know nothing about such schools/programs anyway, so it isn't even a matter of the local therapist thinking something a bad idea so much as not even knowing.
-
That was pathetic. Try again.
-
I just have ONE question:
When the fuck do these people thnk that a kid DOES NOT need a program and can grow up fine at home without all this bullshit?
-
Dunno. But one will be 'round d'rectly to correct your spelling errors and chastise you for using foul language.
-
Actually, Ed-Cons are the individuals that lack competency and qualifications. They cannot call themselves therapists, so they use the term Educational Consultant (any asshole can be a consultant). They are not qualified nor licensed to make a diagnosis or recommend courses of treatment for anybody. Ed-Con is just a fancy term for salesman. They are selling programs the same way an Insurance Agent sells insurance. They sell the program that pays them the best.
The reason program parents don't like therapists is simple. Therapists are liable to tell the parents the truth; things the parents aren't willing to accept or are in denial of. The parents believe the Ed-Con because the Ed-Con tells them exactly what they want to hear.
Therapists will diagnose and follow a proven path of treatment. That requires hard work on the part of the parents. It requires lots of time, patience, and effort. It requires the knowledge that growth and change are not linear processes and there will be set backs. It requires parents to listen to criticism of their parenting and make difficult changes in themselves and their lives to assist their kids. It requires acceptance that it may not work.
Ed-Cons offer a linear process that is much easier for the parent. They support and praise the parent, blame the kid, and allow the parent to cop out. They make useless, unrealistic guarentees. Desperate parents drink this up like the snake oil it is.
Programs use inescapable, catch 22 logic and ignorant parents fall for it. If the program is failing, it is because the kid is balking at 'working the program.' If wilderness made no changes, it wasn't long enough. Send the kid to TBS. They will keep the kid as long as it takes to force change there. How can they fail? If it does fail, it is time for the exit plan. They have their money, just dump the kid. It is the kid's choices that led them their (yeah, right) and the parents can go on in their denial, thinking they did everything they could. The programs and Ed-Cons will reassure them they did.
These con artists are laughing all the way to the bank.
-
The really sad thing is that the marketing of this industry has gotten SOOO slick. A salesman who sells behavior mod programs calls himself an "Educational Consultant," and yet he is not a certified teacher or a certified therapist, but cheerfully advises parents on matters that have life-long consequences for their child's education, not to mention their child's physical and emotional well-being.
It should be illegal -- just as illegal as if I start calling myself a therapist and start charging patients for my mental health advice.
-
"Our issue is that we have planned for our son who just finished 11th grade(at TBS), to finish his senior year at his TBS and will graduate (academically) the end of August. He has not taken SAT's or ACT's but will have taken both within the month. In short, it is way too late to apply for this fall to college.
The plan is for him to take a few classes at a local community college and get a part-time job. He will need to look into programs, visit colleges etc.. as soon as he comes home in the fall. "
i note that nothing about these statements mentions what the kids thoughts are. I hope that he wants to spend a few years at 'community college" I guess it is too bloddy bad if he does not! nothing about the post suggests that the boy has any say in his own future.
BTW- What is the difference between community college and normal university? Would you not still have to apply?
-
Community college is a 2 year college where you can get an "associates degree" instead of a 4 year bachelor's degree, or you can just take classes for awhile and transfer them (usually) to a regular university. A lot of people who aren't ready for a regular university or don't meet the admission requirements will go to community college for awhile as a stepping stone to the real deal, since they could get accepted to university later if they do well at the CC. Yes you still have to apply.
Some (most?) kids who spend their last year or two of high school in a Program may be behind academically compared to kids who went to a regular public high school, so community college might be their only choice.
You're right, it doesn't sound like this kid has much choice about his future. Even if he does have a choice, his options are more limited after finishing high school in a "school" that wasn't really a school.
-
I note a lot of strggling teens parents claim they don't trust the advice of trained local therapists. i think it is because the therapist may often advise that sending a troubled kid into isolation from their comminuty is a BAD idea!
What i dont get is that they will question this but be far more passive about the advice of an Ed con who may be getting kickbacks from a gulag in a largely unregulated industry & who has no provable independence whatsoever.
perhaps in some cases, it is not about helping the kid but letting someone else deal with a child who is a pain in the arse!
Actually, that's not it. The problem with most therapists is that they lack adequate competence with the issues being presented ... period. Certainly that is too often the case. Session after session of "how do you feel about that", "what did you do about it", and back to "how do you feel about that" without advice doesn't help someone get a grip on today.
Have you even taken Psych 101? The therapists JOB is to get the client to think[/i] and assess a situation, figure out how they feel about it, figure out WHY they feel a particular way, figure out what they can do about it, and how they can take steps to change it.
You know, much like TBSs claim to do... but without the degradation and prison like atmosphere.
It is a minority of therapists who understand the range of alternatives, including different therapeutic approaches they could take. Those different approaches might start with involving the whole family in communication sessions - although sometimes the therapists themselves have their own communicatioin issues, so would be a poor teacher of others.
Wow, looks like we're dealing with a long time scholar here, folks...
What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?
The other matter is that for a therapist to advise "sending the kid away" is tantamount to admitting they can't get important change to come about - they "failed". So ego keeps them from recommending what can be very useful things (tho you wouldn't agree; another issue). Of course, often they know nothing about such schools/programs anyway, so it isn't even a matter of the local therapist thinking something a bad idea so much as not even knowing.
You're not the biggest moron we've seen around here... but if you keep going with your analysis, you could be a finalist. :lol:
-
Dear ena ket,
a) What [how much] do you know about cognitive therapy?
b) "What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?" Beats me!
c) Did you learn it all in your gulag?
Sincerely,
your candidate
-
Dear ena ket,
Interesting abbreviation. My Gestalt is very much intact as well.
a) What [how much] do you know about cognitive therapy?
Enough to wear a Psi Chi T-shirt and pass the finals.
b) "What the hell do you think therapist spend six years studying?" Beats me!
Then maybe you should have educated yourself before spouting off.
c) Did you learn it all in your gulag?
Sincerely,
your candidate
Here's your sign.
-
HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481
posted August 15, 2006 11:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need a recommendation for a drug test solely for THC that can detect continuing use. The drug tests I use (urine test) have a panel for THC but are not as accurate as I need right now. I have not had any luck with hair tests. I vaguely recall some discussion of this in the past year or so and would greatly appreciate any suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 66 | From: los angeles | Registered: Nov 2004 | Logged: 64.14.248.62 |
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818
posted August 15, 2006 02:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HappyTheyreAlive,
My son had a terrible problem with marijuana use. The over-the-counter test kits only measure IF there is THC in the urine. As you know, THC can be present for almost 30 days. The more one smokes, the more cummulative the level and the longer it takes to leave the body (it is stored in fat).
We knew that he was smoking, we knew that it wasn't just recreational use and we wanted some way to follow the actual levels of THC. I think some rehabs can run what it called a "QUANTITATIVE" test (as opposed to just the qualitative tests in the OTC kits). We obtained a urine sample every Friday and had it mailed to the MAYO Clinic who were able to analyze how much THC was in the sample. We were able to see if the levels were rising or falling (in our son's case- they never fell and were off the charts, hence his being sent to WC/TBS). You will probably need a doctor's Rx (my husband was able to write for it) and insurance may NOT cover it. But it gave us the information we needed to see if our son was cutting down on his use. We had proof in black and white numbers that he was smoking almost every day.
PS For some kids, knowing that they are being monitored by a lab may just be enough of a deterant. Unfortunately for us, it didn't work that way. Good luck! Helene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 168 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 151.201.45.197 |
I can't believe parents have sunk this low. Tested quantitatively at the fucking Mayo clinic on a weekly basis???? Goose-stepping, step-craft, police-state parents. ::noway:: :cry:
-
Abbey
Member
Member # 644
posted August 12, 2006 12:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your legal responsibilities do vary from state to state. When we were in CA, if our son left (either by his choice or ours), we would be held liable for anything he does until the legal age of 18. We were so concerned about this that we hired an attorney to protect ourselves. From the age of 13 on he was never in our house more than a few weeks at a time. He was a runner and a severe addict.
It does sound that your son has a lot of positives going on, but at the same time, you have the right to enforce rules that are important to you. I can completely understand why he would want to be a 'normal' teen (is there such a thing? ), but I would have hoped that in RTC he learned the dangers of being an addict of any kind of substance.
On a personal note, if I could do things all over for our son, I would have kicked him out well before 18. It wouldn't be the booting on the street, but helped him establish a life outside of our house. Our relationship deteriorated so much during the last 2 years he was somewhat at home that right now there is no contact. In the end, the prison system ended up with him, which is where he is serving his 3rd stint right now for a minimum of 10 years. If we didn't have the day to day battles, maybe we'd have some sort of relationship.
Now, my son's case is extreme. Any possible placement was made for him. RTCs, group homes, juvenile hall, wilderness programs...nothing worked because HE didn't want it to work. Well, now he's got the consequence. I think we could have parted the Red Sea and it wouldn't have made a difference. Your son doesn't seem anywhere near this extreme action.
It sounds like your family has some great dialogue going on, which is critical. Only you know when the line is crossed...just make sure your son knows where that line is. Finally, if you draw the 'line,' then back down, you've just set a strong precedence. Be willing to follow through.
ps...my son is actually almost 23 now. My profile is far outdated.
Abbey
[ August 12, 2006, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Abbey ]
--------------------
19 y/o son - incarcerated CA prison
Abbey
Member
Member # 644
posted August 15, 2006 06:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a barely middle class family, I would really think about the option of an RTC again. We did it more times than I can remember, remortgaged our house, etc. We couldn't financially do it anymore. We were, and still are completely spent from this venture. We're teachers...we don't have endless money. I still feel if the teen is not into the intervention, there is not much to be had by the experience.
On the issue of staying with friends, well, that doesn't seem to last too long. The other 'loving' family grows weary of the crap like you did. He'll most likely be knocking on your door in a few months or sooner. Have a plan. The other perspective is if it works...wonderful! I know when we gave up custody to the state of CA (which was VERY hard to do just so he could get mental services) people kind of scorned us for doing so. My thought was...if he connects with a family, I'm thrilled. It's better than what he's getting now. It didn't work, but we were no worse off. At least he was receiving state services.
Trust your heart. Your know your family and your son. All you can do is try your best.
Abbey
-
HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481
posted August 15, 2006 11:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need a recommendation for a drug test solely for THC that can detect continuing use. The drug tests I use (urine test) have a panel for THC but are not as accurate as I need right now. I have not had any luck with hair tests. I vaguely recall some discussion of this in the past year or so and would greatly appreciate any suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 66 | From: los angeles | Registered: Nov 2004 | Logged: 64.14.248.62 |
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818
posted August 15, 2006 02:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HappyTheyreAlive,
My son had a terrible problem with marijuana use. The over-the-counter test kits only measure IF there is THC in the urine. As you know, THC can be present for almost 30 days. The more one smokes, the more cummulative the level and the longer it takes to leave the body (it is stored in fat).
We knew that he was smoking, we knew that it wasn't just recreational use and we wanted some way to follow the actual levels of THC. I think some rehabs can run what it called a "QUANTITATIVE" test (as opposed to just the qualitative tests in the OTC kits). We obtained a urine sample every Friday and had it mailed to the MAYO Clinic who were able to analyze how much THC was in the sample. We were able to see if the levels were rising or falling (in our son's case- they never fell and were off the charts, hence his being sent to WC/TBS). You will probably need a doctor's Rx (my husband was able to write for it) and insurance may NOT cover it. But it gave us the information we needed to see if our son was cutting down on his use. We had proof in black and white numbers that he was smoking almost every day.
PS For some kids, knowing that they are being monitored by a lab may just be enough of a deterant. Unfortunately for us, it didn't work that way. Good luck! Helene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 168 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 151.201.45.197 |
I can't believe parents have sunk this low. Tested quantitatively at the fucking Mayo clinic on a weekly basis???? Goose-stepping, step-craft, police-state parents. ::noway:: :cry:
It's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. :o
-
If these Struggling Parents talked to their kids only half as much as they talk to each other---they just might accidently build some type of workable relationship with their own child. What a thought, huh?
-
If these Struggling Parents talked to their kids only half as much as they talk to each other---they just might accidently build some type of workable relationship with their own child. What a thought, huh?
Very true, but communication requires two participants, and some relationships get so dysfunctional that communication can become nearly impossible.
That doesn't mean the kid -- or the parent -- needs a "program." But they usually both need counseling at that point.
-
i have a sinking suspiscion that every single "struggling teen" has been incarcerated in a kiddie jail.
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... category=1 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?category=1)
not a single post in seven days. the final solution must have been implemented...
-
Why is it that you care about Struggling Teens? Could it be that those posters have figured out that you will copy and paste their posts here to abuse them? The only way any of you can make a difference is by getting the information and then, with a bit of patience and brains, make your case about the programs being abusive. Chasing off differing opinions in a childish manner makes this forum a very boring one sided argument. It used to be somewhat informative and interesting to debate the subject with The Who and some of the others but sadly, I think they've left you to moan on your own. My guess is that the parents on ST have resorted to PMs which, I think is very smart on their part.
-
It's harder than you think though. Take a look at the Hyde forum. I've been trying to engage in a rational discussion there for a while now. No luck.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17154 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17154)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17019&start=0 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17019&start=0)
There is a decent discussion re: AA and it's methodology here which I think directly relates to the teen mindfuck industry though.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17266 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17266)
-
Why is it that you care about Struggling Teens? Could it be that those posters have figured out that you will copy and paste their posts here to abuse them? The only way any of you can make a difference is by getting the information and then, with a bit of patience and brains, make your case about the programs being abusive. Chasing off differing opinions in a childish manner makes this forum a very boring one sided argument. It used to be somewhat informative and interesting to debate the subject with The Who and some of the others but sadly, I think they've left you to moan on your own. My guess is that the parents on ST have resorted to PMs which, I think is very smart on their part.
my guess is you're a struggling parent. i don't think there's anything "very smart" about you or your cohorts at ST.
The Who is one of the stupidest cocksuckers ever to post here. i'm glad he's not here hogging bandwidth with his vapid bullshit.
-
No, you are wrong. I'm not even a parent. But, again, I will reiterate that the credibility of this forum is reaching a record low because nobody will even take the time and energy to engage with any of you. If you care about kids being put in to programs- you might consider honest debate instead of mudslinging. You would win the argument (by and large, programs are not good) and not look like such a little piss ant. I used to send people here to read the debate going on- now I don't mention this site because it's yielding results more toward program promotion. Just my opinion.
-
i have a sinking suspiscion that every single "struggling teen" has been incarcerated in a kiddie jail.
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... category=1 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?category=1)
not a single post in seven days. the final solution must have been implemented...
My theory is that summer is a busy time for Struggling Parents and for programs. Now that school is about to start, little Johnny has either already been shipped off somewhere this summer or else his parents are taking a "let's see how this Fall semester goes" kind of attitude.
ST will probably get busier after school is underway and Johnny keeps smoking pot or doing other bad things that will get him sent away.
-
I seriously doubt that is the case, but why do you even care? Fornits gets really slow when school stars because most of the posters on here have to go to school in the morning. That doesn't make either group more or less credible. As someone who has been burned by a TBS, I am just hoping that the rhetorical nonsense that floods this forum will become more informative and stimulating while, at the same time, maybe become less hostile. Most people don't enjoy hostility in their free time...especially those that have experienced a program.
-
i have a sinking suspiscion that every single "struggling teen" has been incarcerated in a kiddie jail.
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... category=1 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?category=1)
not a single post in seven days. the final solution must have been implemented...
My theory is that summer is a busy time for Struggling Parents and for programs. Now that school is about to start, little Johnny has either already been shipped off somewhere this summer or else his parents are taking a "let's see how this Fall semester goes" kind of attitude.
ST will probably get busier after school is underway and Johnny keeps smoking pot or doing other bad things that will get him sent away.
maybe, but there's a strong possibility that they fired up the ovens... those ST parents are some sick bastards - especially Karen, she's one of the sickest people i've ever encountered - at ST or anywhere else for that matter.
-
Have you noticed that even some of the more prolific (more mature)anti-program posters have given up? That is not a good sign.
-
i have a sinking suspiscion that every single "struggling teen" has been incarcerated in a kiddie jail.
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... category=1 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?category=1)
not a single post in seven days. the final solution must have been implemented...
My theory is that summer is a busy time for Struggling Parents and for programs. Now that school is about to start, little Johnny has either already been shipped off somewhere this summer or else his parents are taking a "let's see how this Fall semester goes" kind of attitude.
ST will probably get busier after school is underway and Johnny keeps smoking pot or doing other bad things that will get him sent away.
maybe, but there's a strong possibility that they fired up the ovens... those ST parents are some sick bastards - especially Karen, she's one of the sickest people i've ever encountered - at ST or anywhere else for that matter.
There you go----proving my point exactly. Who cares about ST or Karen? BORING. It's become a joke how involved you are with her--not how sick she is. I find it interesting that when a pro-program person is posting, that person becomes Karen. I'm a program skeptic and I still have to hear about godforesaken Karen. I don't agree with Karen- ever- but you continue to give her way too much power by mentioning her so much. Nobody (especially people looking for a reason to "send" or "not to send") gives a flying fuck about Karen. Stop it. You may help a kid get sent away whose Mom may identify with Karen.
-
how do you figure that? have you considered that this site is a first step to raise awareness in general and then the "more mature" people here take it to the authorities and file lawsuits? this is actually what is happening if you'd like to know.
watch the news for the next couple of weeks. HLA got hit hard with a pop CPS inspection, their accreditation is in jeopardy and they will very likely be forced to get licensed and comply with state law or be shut down. this is only the tip of the iceburg. the big hurt is coming in the form of a lawsuit that will tear HLA down to its core financially and all of the evidence talked about on this site will be recorded into indelible public record.
your narrow viewpoint ignores the fact that there is serious legal activity taking place far beyond the scope of this message board.
-
There you go----proving my point exactly. Who cares about ST or Karen? BORING. It's become a joke how involved you are with her--not how sick she is. I find it interesting that when a pro-program person is posting, that person becomes Karen. I'm a program skeptic and I still have to hear about godforesaken Karen. I don't agree with Karen- ever- but you continue to give her way too much power by mentioning her so much. Nobody (especially people looking for a reason to "send" or "not to send") gives a flying fuck about Karen. Stop it. You may help a kid get sent away whose Mom may identify with Karen.
I have to agree. Who cares even if it is Karen. Make your point regardless of who it is. That way people can follow the thread and she'll hang herself. She always does.
-
how do you figure that? have you considered that this site is a first step to raise awareness in general and then the "more mature" people here take it to the authorities and file lawsuits? this is actually what is happening if you'd like to know.
watch the news for the next couple of weeks. HLA got hit hard with a pop CPS inspection, their accreditation is in jeopardy and they will very likely be forced to get licensed and comply with state law or be shut down. this is only the tip of the iceburg. the big hurt is coming in the form of a lawsuit that will tear HLA down to its core financially and all of the evidence talked about on this site will be recorded into indelible public record.
your narrow viewpoint ignores the fact that there is serious legal activity taking place far beyond the scope of this message board.
Of course I know that. That is the only reason I come here. I'm only wishing that some of the bullshit that hides the real productive postings could go away because it's getting in the way of the true mission of this forum. The idea that you think I'm narrow is laughable. Some of you are so incredibly arrogant and paranoid that you can't even converse rationally. I'm on your side for fuck's sake. Do you enjoy the endless Karen postings, Milk gargling's ramblings and the endless Guest idiocy? It's always a toss up of whether or not, on any given day, that Fornits posting will be more like chicken shit or chicken salad.
-
Hey, now I agree with you to a certain extent but lay off Milk Gargling. There's method to his madness.
-
Hey, now I agree with you to a certain extent but lay off Milk Gargling. There's method to his madness.
Thanks. I can tell that Milk is bright and I wish he could tone it down so that he could (might) be heard. I'm a very tolerant person and I find myself skipping over his posts because they irritate me so much.
-
Hey, now I agree with you to a certain extent but lay off Milk Gargling. There's method to his madness.
Thanks. I can tell that Milk is bright and I wish he could tone it down so that he could (might) be heard. I'm a very tolerant person and I find myself skipping over his posts because they irritate me so much.
I support MGDP 100%. I give him my endorsement without hesitation or restriction, hi-toned or otherwise.
-
Of course you do DJ. You are like the big brother that loves him unconditionally. I'm referring to the newbies that come here and get turned off---mostly by Guest posters---but sometimes by him as well. I think he has a lot to say and I wish he could reach more people that might listen to him if he couched his opinions in a more gentle way.
-
However---that wouldn't be the Milk we know.
Does anyone agree that this has become very one-sided lately? I miss the debate. I am just hoping the Karen crap and the chronic ST stalkers would cease for a bit and maybe some interesting, differing views would be heard again. Nothing strengthens a person's covictions more than healthy debate. And, don't say that program parent won't debate---that's a cop out. You get more flies with honey and more information, too.
-
I'm trying, I'm trying. Go over to Hyde and the TREAT America threads, or start one of your own.
-
Anne,
I did go over to those threads but that is not my area of interest just now. I'm in college and classes start again tomorrow - I don't want to get obsessed with an additional thread. This one used to be good. Thanks though. This was going to be my goodbye speech and my offering of unsolicited advice.
-
Hey, now I agree with you to a certain extent but lay off Milk Gargling. There's method to his madness.
Thanks. I can tell that Milk is bright and I wish he could tone it down so that he could (might) be heard. I'm a very tolerant person and I find myself skipping over his posts because they irritate me so much.
I support MGDP 100%. I give him my endorsement without hesitation or restriction, hi-toned or otherwise.
I may have missed something...Dj, are you the moderator or something? Do you oversee this thread? I didn't think there was a moderator but I assume you are someone Milk looks up to. What's your feeling on the other pathetic postings clogging up this thread? If you are someone the younger kids look up to, then why don't you attempt to help them realize that the junk is detrimental to your cause?
-
They serve their purpose. If you don't like them, skip over the posts and respond to those you do want to have a conversation with. Fornits is brutal, always has been. Not everyone has left and those that have didn't necessarily leave because of that. Maybe it was just time for them to move on. Put this shit to bed.
-
They serve their purpose. If you don't like them, skip over the posts and respond to those you do want to have a conversation with. Fornits is brutal, always has been. Not everyone has left and those that have didn't necessarily leave because of that. Maybe it was just time for them to move on. Put this shit to bed.
Fine, I will. I think being antagonistic will and certainly has hurt your cause. Enough said. Good luck, I was trying to help. I'm in a good position to be helpful. It's becoming difficult to use Fornits as a source when the average investigator has to wade through a bunch of crap. Just a suggestion and, as I assumed, there's no room for differing opinions here---even people that agree that programs should be closed.
-
Of course you do DJ. You are like the big brother that loves him unconditionally. I'm referring to the newbies that come here and get turned off---mostly by Guest posters---but sometimes by him as well. I think he has a lot to say and I wish he could reach more people that might listen to him if he couched his opinions in a more gentle way.
Funny, I didn't get 'turned off' until I started reading through your posts. Get a life.
-
Fine, I will. I think being antagonistic will and certainly has hurt your cause. Enough said. Good luck, I was trying to help. I'm in a good position to be helpful. It's becoming difficult to use Fornits as a source when the average investigator has to wade through a bunch of crap. Just a suggestion and, as I assumed, there's no room for differing opinions here---even people that agree that programs should be closed.
Now who's being antagonistic? I said skip over the posts you don't like. There are plenty of other sites (FICA, ISAC, NoSpank etc) that are "professional looking" or are more for informational purposes only or whatever...Fornits has it's place too, warts and all. There really is no 'mission' here. Just people talking. I still manage to carry on a decent discussion.
-
CatLover5
Junior Member
Member # 5029
As I write this, my 17 year old son is being introduced to his 2 escorts. He is at his father's house, 2 miles away, and I am totally stressed out waiting to hear from his father that he is on his way to Montana for the WC we picked out for him.
How did so many of us end up here. I'm sure most of you are like Tom and myself, caring, loving parents (although we are divorced, but still friendly). Thank G-d for this website. Whenever I have questioned our drastic decision to have him sent away without his prior knowledge and to send him to the last place he'd pick to spend 2 days at, no less 45, I'm put at ease (at least a little) by some of the parents on this board that talk about how well their sons and daughters are doing after having been away and I am hopeful for my own son.
We have watched our son slowly disintegrate, particularly for the last 2 years, beyond our control. What are we all missing that there are so many of our children this out of control. And why is it that we are truly unaware of how many of the parents we run into are having the same problems. When I approached my son's high school to see where I could go for help they were unable to point me in any good direction. I live in the New York area...why are there not any parents groups out there for those of us who are desperate for advice! (phone is ringing....Dan is on his way to WC...apparently no big scene (thank you) he is no longer in our control but under someone's I have never met. This is the scarey part.
I now have 6 weeks to research TBS options and transition possibilities. I will be reviewing these discussion boards like crazy to pick all your brains. This will be my new focus. This is how I will deal with missing my son (those good times are still there, but rare).
Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing your own personal experiences so the ones following in similar shoes have someone to turn to for help. I can only hope that I will be telling future readers of my son's great experiences with his WC and TBS and that his life is so much better because of it.
Wish us luck.
No, Catlover, you will not be telling future readers this. If you do, you will be lying like other posters such as KarenInDallas to protect your own ego. Now that you resorted to hiring kidnappers to forcibly take your son from your home, he will never trust you again. If he pretends to, it will be out of fear or for his own financial gain in the short term. Long term, your relationship with your son is over, forever. Go to temple and pray, because that is your only option left. If you dont believe me, try this thing we call empathy for a moment and think how you would feel toward your parents if they had you forcibly kidnapped. You are too afraid to talk to him, and he knows that.
More bullshit advice from ST, what a surpsise!
-
I'm only wishing that some of the bullshit that hides the real productive postings could go away because it's getting in the way of the true mission of this forum.
Everyone has their idea of what Fornits should or shouldn't be, but it is what it is. And contrary to the criticism, it is effective. It's also unique, nothing that compares. Not dissing other sites, the more the merrier. Many sites have folded over the years under the 'threat' of slapsuits. Fornits is still here.
It's always a toss up of whether or not, on any given day, that Fornits posting will be more like chicken shit or chicken salad.
As 'warned' in the welcome:
This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
Warning: this website promotes anonymous posting and parent/ program bashing without accountability. Have at it!
-
As 'warned' in the welcome:
This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
Warning: this website promotes anonymous posting and parent/ program bashing without accountability. Have at it!
In other words, it's real. Something program parents try so desperately to avoid, reality.
-
Realities can be very different. The reality Fornits presents has little relevance or interest to an intelligent person who wants to weigh both sides of an argument. Fornits is the reality of a bunch of angry kids or functional kids who defend their position by going on the attack. That is what the poster was trying to convey. Even those opposed to abusive or religious oriented teen programs are filled with disgust at this site. I assure you this is the majority reaction.
-
Yep, that's why you are posting here, and this is still the most popular teen torture industry site. Now go scurry off to whatever rock it is you live under, scurry away, little one.
-
Wow! So many people here really believe I care what they think.
Touching, really.
There is a method to my madness. I have a dual purpose in posting here: Expose and destroy the trolls, and piss people off enough to actually do something about these hellholes.
Number 1 seems to be working well, and number 2 I'll never be egotistical enough to take complete credit for.
-
Dadrod
Member
Member # 4316
posted September 06, 2006 02:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not a failure as a mum! You do have a right to feel disappointed. You also have a right to be angry, so long as you are angry at the "right" things. Kids get to choose lots of things, unfortunately some bad things among them. And too often parents don't get to control enough for the good of their children's future. Just don't blame yourself. (A prominent psychologist recently said that you can only blame when there is malicious intent.)
I agree that a good diagnosis is important, although I understand that it may be hard to get in England - at least of the type(s) usually obtained in the US. ****i.e. a trumped-up BS label. Idiot Rod doesn't care if it's a REAL Dx, only if it's useful in incarcerating a child**** If that is the case, a somewhat detailed description of his behaviors, moods and mood swings (including how long they last), etc, along with a history of his behavior changes should be helpful.
Most of the programs of the type folks here have had good experience with are in the US, and a few in elsewhere, but not in England. Given your comment on the attitude about being able to walk away from danger if over 10, I guess that ought not surprise greatly. A quick web search produced nothing there, save a small psychiatric hospital of which I know nothing.
What you described is consistent with smoking pot - and more, so whatever course of action you are able to take should consider that. Breaking a drug user of the habit is not quickly done though, and with a willing/motivated person, it often takes several tries, although I've seen a good wilderness program word "wonders" with many.
None of the good private programs in the US are cheap, but if you can afford them, you should be able to come up with some story of a special "vacation" to get him there. Failing that, you may be able to find a US-style therapist or counselor there who may have good local connections. When we were living in an "emerging economy" we were able to find a sort of "network" of specialists serving the ex-pat community (mostly American, in our case).
Whatever your course, you'll find support and hopefully useful advice here.
--------------------
Rod
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 183 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2004 | Logged: 152.163.100.204 |
______________________________________________
Rod should be renamed "Lying Fucking Bastard"!
What do these idiotic parents think they're going to get from their kids when they model manipulation and deceipt???
Rod, you're a fucking moron, straight up.
-
Dadrod
Member
Member # 4316
posted September 06, 2006 02:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are not a failure as a mum! You do have a right to feel disappointed. You also have a right to be angry, so long as you are angry at the "right" things. Kids get to choose lots of things, unfortunately some bad things among them. And too often parents don't get to control enough for the good of their children's future. Just don't blame yourself. (A prominent psychologist recently said that you can only blame when there is malicious intent.)
I agree that a good diagnosis is important, although I understand that it may be hard to get in England - at least of the type(s) usually obtained in the US. ****i.e. a trumped-up BS label. Idiot Rod doesn't care if it's a REAL Dx, only if it's useful in incarcerating a child**** If that is the case, a somewhat detailed description of his behaviors, moods and mood swings (including how long they last), etc, along with a history of his behavior changes should be helpful.
Most of the programs of the type folks here have had good experience with are in the US, and a few in elsewhere, but not in England. Given your comment on the attitude about being able to walk away from danger if over 10, I guess that ought not surprise greatly. A quick web search produced nothing there, save a small psychiatric hospital of which I know nothing.
What you described is consistent with smoking pot - and more, so whatever course of action you are able to take should consider that. Breaking a drug user of the habit is not quickly done though, and with a willing/motivated person, it often takes several tries, although I've seen a good wilderness program word "wonders" with many.
None of the good private programs in the US are cheap, but if you can afford them, you should be able to come up with some story of a special "vacation" to get him there. Failing that, you may be able to find a US-style therapist or counselor there who may have good local connections. When we were living in an "emerging economy" we were able to find a sort of "network" of specialists serving the ex-pat community (mostly American, in our case).
Whatever your course, you'll find support and hopefully useful advice here.
--------------------
Rod
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 183 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2004 | Logged: 152.163.100.204 |
______________________________________________
Rod should be renamed "Lying Fucking Bastard"!
What do these idiotic parents think they're going to get from their kids when they model manipulation and deceipt???
Rod, you're a fucking moron, straight up.
Misery must truly love company because with the advice he is giving out I am sure there will be many more single parents with no kids anymore with PLENTY of time to sit around online giving advice. He advocates lying to your kid and having them locked up.. what a great dad.. rod.
-
exhausted
Member
Member # 5259
posted September 09, 2006 08:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh Lord I am so there with the ADHD thing!! I have two with it....the eldest one has adult ADHD and is a total pain in the neck, but it wasn't diagnosed back in the day in the UK, we've only just realised it's not 'naughty boy syndrome'
Ritalin can definitely make them sleep badly, I don't know if my son was worse before or after taking it to be honest! If he's on Ritalin it might be wise to get his levels checked, changing dosage may help him.
I totally agree that a 14 yr old boy who has no dad at home will try to be the big man, that part is perfectly normal, it's so difficult to know what's acceptable & normal behaviour & what isn't when you have a child who's got other troubles, that line becomes blurred for us and we over react to everything!
But hitting you is a no no, you have to make it quite clear that you brought him into this world and can just as easily take him out, be strong for his sake and stand up to him, he is being a bully, and we all know bullies only bully those who are weaker than them
Please don't think it's easy for me to say this, I've taken a fair few knocks off the eldest but in my mind, I knew if he was going to hit me anyway I may as well let him know it's not going to be a pushover to do so and he's stopped doing it
Parents should be issued with stun guns - none of us would be in this position if we were
--------------------
Help help help help help ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 10 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.71.170.203 |
________________________________________________
this moron advocates violence against children. nice.
i bet marvin gaye's dad said some of these same things right before he blew marvin away with a pistol...
-
Okay that last one broke my psycho meter. That guy is off the charts.
I want to think that some of these are Fornits members getting a little trolling in, but I know better...
-
Umm... wow. A struggling teens poster suggesting they have the right to murder their child. WTF is wrong with these people?
-
um ... ahhh .... yeah, "exhausted" is a bit extreme. wonder why the kid has "problems". but i hope that poster meant more of knocking him down for hitting (which is what he is said to have done) than kill when writing "taking him out". at least i hope that is what the Britisher meant -- especially since it goes on "stand up to him".
But there really can be no excuse for the "parents should be issued stun guns". And this from one who isn't anti everything.
-
Have a sense of proportion. If my husband's late when we have to go somewhere, I might say, "I'm gonna kill him." That doesn't mean I'm planning or advocating murder.
Some of these parents are whacko enough to actually use a stun gun on their children, but most likely the highlighted stuff was just hyperbole.
Program parents really are terrible, and the Program really is terrible. They'd all sure like to be able to convince casual critics that all of us who vigorously oppose them are only jumping at shadows. It would be better if we wouldn't make that easy for them.
I know, I know, some Program Parents are dupes. Many are not, they're just warped. Either way, overreacting to hyperbole hurts our cause more than it helps.
Julie
-
hyperbole or not I am sure many parents would use a stun gun if they had one. As for "taking out" a kid think of how many children are murdered each year by their parents; how many are abused and how many are screwed up for life. I certainly hope if it is only "hyperbole" that they don't use it around their children who take things literally.
-
hyperbole or not I am sure many parents would use a stun gun if they had one. As for "taking out" a kid think of how many children are murdered each year by their parents; how many are abused and how many are screwed up for life. I certainly hope if it is only "hyperbole" that they don't use it around their children who take things literally.
I get it.
Your next door neighbor says she's going to kill her husband because he's late to pick her up and you laugh---she's kidding.
Andrea Yates says the exact same thing and you don't laugh, you start fearing for his life and calling emergency phone numbers.
"Rod" isn't scary because of what he said. He's scary because of what he is---a Program Parent.
When he says those things, they're scary--but only because he's scary.
Julie
-
A teenager says that type of thing about their parents on the internet or school mates and the FBI will show up at his door.
-
Instead of using drugs, try choc. flav expresso beans. For most of us they wire us, but for kids with ADD they do just the opposite, they calm them down, also kiwi fruit is known to help. Please try something different than drugs, and also keep them active in sports or whatever they like to do.
-
or just try program after program after program, like these idiotic parents from ST:
itsme
Member
Member # 5144
posted September 17, 2006 08:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Birdfeeder,
Your post could almost have been written by me. Our daughter is in her 3rd program. It is a 90 day program which ends in November. Last holidays were with her and our other teen. She had problems and was home after her first semester of college, but we had no idea what we were in for and how serious the problems really were. She is considering sober living again after her 90 day program and if she stays in the state she is in now, I don't think she will be home for the holidays. Only some of my family members really know the story, so explaining her absence to her grandparents, etc, will be another step in my recovery for sure. One that I have really put off. I could bring her home for a "visit" during the holidays, but am afraid that she might not go back and would find support here from using friends if she chose to relapse. I've been attending Al-anon and another support group and have been trying to relax a little, knowing that she is in a good program. I hadn't even thought about the holidays. I have been encouraged to keep her from visiting if at all possible, because once you let them in, it can be hard to get them out. We are scheduled for Family Week to visit her in the beginning of October, so that has kept me from thinking much further ahead than a couple of weeks. I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story. Remember, there are lots of families that don't send out Christmas letters. If it isn't something you want to do this year, then don't do it! Give yourself as many breaks as you can find and enjoy your other child. That's what I have planned so far!
Best Wishes.
what a fucking DOPE.
-
I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story.
Ever heard of Photoshop?
-
or just try program after program after program, like these idiotic parents from ST:
itsme
Member
Member # 5144
posted September 17, 2006 08:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Birdfeeder,
Your post could almost have been written by me. Our daughter is in her 3rd program. It is a 90 day program which ends in November. Last holidays were with her and our other teen. She had problems and was home after her first semester of college, but we had no idea what we were in for and how serious the problems really were. She is considering sober living again after her 90 day program and if she stays in the state she is in now, I don't think she will be home for the holidays. Only some of my family members really know the story, so explaining her absence to her grandparents, etc, will be another step in my recovery for sure. One that I have really put off. I could bring her home for a "visit" during the holidays, but am afraid that she might not go back and would find support here from using friends if she chose to relapse. I've been attending Al-anon and another support group and have been trying to relax a little, knowing that she is in a good program. I hadn't even thought about the holidays. I have been encouraged to keep her from visiting if at all possible, because once you let them in, it can be hard to get them out. We are scheduled for Family Week to visit her in the beginning of October, so that has kept me from thinking much further ahead than a couple of weeks. I have send out a Christmas photo of my 2 children every year since they were born. I don't see me doing that this year, so I know that in itself will cause questions from those that haven't already heard her story. Remember, there are lots of families that don't send out Christmas letters. If it isn't something you want to do this year, then don't do it! Give yourself as many breaks as you can find and enjoy your other child. That's what I have planned so far!
Best Wishes.
what a fucking DOPE.
Wow, queen bitch of the universe?
Holy SHIT. She needs a lot of therapy, and by that I mean her poor kid. That bitch needs to just get smacked with a clue stick.
-
Topic: Other sources for Program reviews, info
StugglingKat
Junior Member
Member # 5264
posted September 18, 2006 02:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there other resources where one can find out about people's experiences and reviews of specific programs? I wish we could post on the Program forum instead of only PM. It's really hard to get specifics about various programs.
Thanks
Kat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8 | From: Alaska | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 209.112.196.52 |
Michael Muldoon
Junior Member
Member # 4278
posted September 18, 2006 05:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would strongly reccemend Fornits.Com. They have great knowledge of many,many,programs.
--------------------
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4 | From: Bronx, New York | Registered: Jun 2004 | Logged: 4.173.238.59 |
katsmom
Member
Member # 4446
posted September 18, 2006 05:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Michael Muldoon:
I would strongly reccemend Fornits.Com. They have great knowledge of many,many,programs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uh NOT! Fornits is a bogus site with posters who like to send nasty emails to parents. I would never go there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 262 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Nov 2004 | Logged: 75.5.13.88 |
WillieNelson
Junior Member
Member # 5254
posted September 18, 2006 06:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fornits has little value. The posters have an agenda and it does not involve providing an honest evaluation of programs. There ARE no good programs, according to Fornits.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4 | From: SE US | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 72.154.207.243 |
Michael Muldoon
Junior Member
Member # 4278
posted September 18, 2006 06:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fornits has suggested programs such as AA, Mentoring Programs,etc.They are programs too. What if a parent did not want to have a kid in a program that was in-patient or did not have the financial resources to pay for a program? I think Fornits gives advice to a more broader amount of the public.
[ September 18, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Michael Muldoon ]
--------------------
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good to do nothing about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4 | From: Bronx, New York | Registered: Jun 2004 | Logged: 4.173.238.59 |
Lon
Administrator
Member # 53
posted September 18, 2006 08:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi StrugglingKat:
You might try to main part of this site www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com). This discussion board is only an adjunct of the main site, which my IT guy tells me contains more than 10,000 pages of information. It includes letters to the editor, news about schools and programs, visit reports by a variety of professionals, articles and essays on a wide variety of topics, links to mainstream articles relating to all kinds of programs, etc. If you put the name of a specific school in the search box, it will bring up a list of most if not all the mentions of it on the site going back to 1989.
Lon Woodbury, IECA, CEP
www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 478 | From: Bonners Ferry, ID | Registered: Aug 1998 | Logged: 67.142.130.34 |
Terry_MO
Junior Member
Member # 5232
posted September 18, 2006 09:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
beware of strugglingteens.com and this board here is a copy of a PM that gives a recomendations "I had great success with my son at xxxxx xxxxx- Great Barrington, Mass. www.jda.org (http://www.jda.org) Like no other place - the very best, for bright, struggling kids."
When i reserched the school i found they are currently facing a lawsuit from aledgidly teacher sexually abusing a student. I told the parent on this board this and they defended the school and ignored the lawsuit info and stood by the recomendation.
Fornits.com is where i found out about the lawsuit and the truth about the school. Fornits saved me from bad advice.
[ September 18, 2006, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Terry_MO ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 24.216.122.200 |
exhausted
Member
Member # 5259
posted September 19, 2006 02:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to know if there are any programs in the UK! Nothingness, there is nothing for us here!
--------------------
Help help help help help ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 35 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.64.217.36 |
mose
Member
Member # 2980
posted September 19, 2006 07:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kat,
When I was doing my research, I purchased the review of programs "The Parent Empowerment Handbook" that Lon Woodbury publishes (he is the owner of this site). It is a comprehensive book on programs, I found it extremely helpful, it has all the individual school reviews (that his company recommends)he is a reputable professional! It also had a wealth of information compiled by educational consultants over the years with plenty of good parenting advice.
There is nothing on Fornits that a parent would find of value. They are a group of angry children and (some adults) many who have no first hand experience with programs or troubled teenagers. Most find pleasure in writing the meanest nastiest vitriol towards one another, and any parent who attempts to write something or asks legitimate questions is shouted down. They are an untrustworthy group and have hacked into members private email addresses and send horrible notes to parents privately and post private information about members. It is more aggravation then any one needs, without any benefit of ever reading one shred of valuable information pertaining to parenting, programs or helping one's child.
[ September 19, 2006, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: mose ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1000 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 |
techdad
Member
Member # 5230
posted September 19, 2006 08:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kat,
I understand your frustration. If you search through the ST archives, you will find an explanation of why Lon no longer allows open discussion of specific programs.
I disagree with those who say "don't go there" about any particular web site or discussion forum. Opinions are not facts, but in my own research in seeking help for my son, I discovered that there is very little data on this industry or these programs. In the absence of facts, the opinions of others and your own gut feeling is about all you have to go on. For me, that's all the more reason I want to hear every side of the story, including opinions with which I am likely to disagree.
There is a dark side to this 'teen help' business of which parents considering programs should be aware. Your child's physical and mental health and well-being are at stake, not to mention staggering sums of money, the likes of which you never dreamed of spending. If you sift through the gamut of opinions of parents and students, news stories, allegations, and so on, you might conclude as I did that some programs seem to have genuinely helped some kids, others probably don't help much but don't really hurt either (other than lost time and money and strained relationships) and others seem to have been genuinely harmful to some kids.
For some parents, the decision process boils down to a process of elimination -- and a large number of specific options can be quickly and easily eliminated based on suspicions, allegations, the aggregate body of opinion and your own gut instinct. If something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right.
There are lots of web sites, both pro & con, that I would recommend parents read to get educated. Feel free to PM me if you want the URLs. The most important thing is to do the research and take the time to make an informed decision. The worst thing a parent can do is make a knee-jerk decision, usually following some specific "last straw" behavioral incident at home, without taking the time to learn the pros & cons of all the options.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 19 | From: AZ | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 68.3.12.50 |
StugglingKat
Junior Member
Member # 5264
posted September 19, 2006 09:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did check out Fonits and at first what I saw and read scared me. Upon more investigation, and the page that listed the various programs in trouble or in the news was helpful to read to understand the issues at hand or the darker side of the industry (death of clients, abuse, control tactics used for both parents and teen).
It did help to be a little more wary. It is unfortunate that some actions of members have diluted their message and discredited their positions.
I did go ahead and order THe Parent Handbook. Hopefully, it will come soon. My son isn't in immediate crisis needing eminient placement so I have a little time before making a decisive course of action.
Kathy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8 | From: Alaska | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 209.112.196.52 |
galen
Member
Member # 5237
posted September 19, 2006 12:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would also be wary of advice you receive here, from other parents. I have received both positive and negative advice from parents on this forum, sometimes regarding the same program. In my case, some of the messages I received were alarming enough that I made arrangements to visit the program our EC recommended for our son. I did investigate the program thoroughly, both the pros and cons, before we made our final decision, but the personal visit and chance to interact with the students, faculty, and staff were a very important part of that decision.
Remember, not every program is the right choice for every child. So opinions will differ. I've learned to take those personal experiences, especially the extremely negative ones, with a grain of salt. We have made what we believe is the best choice for our child. Only time will tell ...
In the end, trust your own gut instinct. You know and understand the needs of your child better than anybody else.
Galen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 12 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 67.10.185.253 |
WillieNelson
Junior Member
Member # 5254
posted September 19, 2006 06:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand why you would say to be "wary" of advice received from parents on this site. ANY advice should be taken in the spirit in which it is given- one family's experience with a program. However, most if not ALL the legitimate parents posting on this site give thoughtful and truthful advice about programs and their own experiences. If you are receiving alarming messages, they are probably not from any of the regular members of this site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4 | From: SE US | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 74.241.173.111 |
hb
Member
Member # 4818
posted September 19, 2006 06:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Galen,
I think the fact that you received both positive and negative information from parents on this website is a good thing. It means that we are being honest with each other. There are always going to pros and cons of any program. You are indeed do correct that one program doesn't fit all.
The most important factor is to trust your gut instincts, as you know your child best. And always, always personally visit ANY program you are considering. Galen is right that you need to talk to students, staff.. beyond the people who take you on the tour. It takes time and more money to visit several programs, but that is one way to truly compare. When we made our final decision, I felt comfortable that I had done my homework.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 180 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 68.162.181.46 |
*********************************************************************
funny how willienelson issues the blanket statement to avoid fornits completely, as our opinions are garbage, but chastizes the other poster for suggesting ST is biased and has an agenda...
hmmmm. go figure. as long as the BIASED AGENDA is a PRO-PROGRAM one, then it's all good.. what a fucking dope. he's an embarrasment to the real willie.
-
These guys really have a chip on their shoulder for us, huh :D
And yeah, we DO advocate programs... that work... that arent abusive... that dont isolate the kid from family and the law and the outside world and advocates... only when necessary... and only as restrictive as NECESSARY, not just because a parent/edcon/quack says so.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856) <- for example.
That "halfway house" program Helena Handbasket posted a while ago and I linked to comes to mind. That actually teaches them how to go out and live and work and make decisions, unlike the lock-in, institutional, 'emotional growth' nonsense peddled that is more about making a child obedient and doing what people tell them to do and to act a certain way... and just disclose EVERYTHING to EVERYONE.
-
so glad that you guys on Fornits have nothing better to do than to troll ST (something you accuse us of all the the time).
We don't resort to posting and quoting your threads to suit our agendas, but hey, go knock yourselves out............
-
Ah, and see, there's the rub.
You CAN'T quote Fornits threads and hurl them in our faces the way we do with you, because you're afraid of what we have to say and any Fornits quote on ST would stand out as an island of truth in a sea of crap. You can't even quote the more trolly posts, because someone might be curious as to what the responses were.
In other words, we can use the evidence of your posts, and you can't use the evidence of ours.
In a dispute where one side can use evidence and the other needs to resort to unsupported assertions, guess which side is right and which is wrong?
Hell, even my name is the mark of someone who obviously doesn't play by your rules. Why don't you mention the Milk Gargling Death Penalty on ST, I wonder?
-
Afraid of what you have to say? That's hilarious. When someone isn't quoted it is because they don't have anything worthwhile to say. Troll on.
-
Then why do you mention Fornits at all?
I mean, anyone reading Fornits will know what's wrong with ST. The control-freak pharases are carefully and painstakingly highlighted by our resident anons and regulars.
But other than blanket statements, you really can't discuss us on ST at all. Not even for reference. Not even after our members have reamed the shit out of HLA.
Oh wait, you can't even discuss specific programs at all there.
(http://http://www.bugwood.org/imgs/71_red_flag.jpg_s.jpg)
(Now even the programmies can see what that causes to pop up.)
Face it. The only reason you're even posting on this thread at all is because you want to whine about people pointing out what the hell is wrong with you.
-
How was school today, Milk?
-
so glad that you guys on Fornits have nothing better to do than to troll ST (something you accuse us of all the the time).
We don't resort to posting and quoting your threads to suit our agendas, but hey, go knock yourselves out............
We cant troll ST.
You BANNED US FROM POSTING THERE AT ALL!
You hide behind lies and when pushed, come out and say youre "support for parents, not to hold programs accountable" and then hurl insultsat us without letting us defend ourselves on your HEAVILY censored forum.
So, again, WTF are you even speaking for?
-
Afraid of what you have to say? That's hilarious. When someone isn't quoted it is because they don't have anything worthwhile to say. Troll on.
How Quaint.
I spoke of facts and logic there and I got banned for ruffling feathers.
Its just a hen house of parents looking for an emotional teat to suck on and fond it in Lon's Forum, while getting validation from everyone else with a severe case of cognitive dissonance about the program and encouragement to keep your kid locked up in a program
:cry2: The worlds tiniest violin is playing for ya, bub.
-
so glad that you guys on Fornits have nothing better to do than to troll ST (something you accuse us of all the the time).
We don't resort to posting and quoting your threads to suit our agendas, but hey, go knock yourselves out............
and so glad that you guys at ST have nothing better to do than to check the posts about trolling ST :rofl:
-
I'm sorry, but kids just don't ~deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses!
-
Here's another gem of wisdom...
mose
Member
Member # 2980
posted September 27, 2006 12:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non Parent
Exactly what is your point of continuing to beat a dead horse; we should listen to you and not help our kids in a way you disapprove?
It has been stated by many of us that we all try very hard to work all the home and community remedies and they did not work. Therefore, we try the next thing that you claim does not work. That is our prerogative as a parents to add one more thing to the list of stuff we have tried.
When you have a troubled out of control child you can do whatever you wish.
[ September 27, 2006, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: mose ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1005 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 |
Have you tried beating your kid with a rubber hose? How about a stun gun, mose, you dumb cocksucker?
God, your kids must fucking hate you.
-
That whole thread is really sad.
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=001285 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001285)
-
Whoever is registered over there please post this in response to HappyThey'reAlive. They asked for studies showing these places can be harmful.
http://consensus.nih.gov/2004/2004Youth ... 23html.htm (http://consensus.nih.gov/2004/2004YouthViolencePreventionSOS023html.htm)
The evidence indicates that ?scare tactics? don?t work and there is some evidence that they may make the problem worse rather than simply not working. One of the hazards of the juvenile court system is the impact of having a record on the child?s subsequent life course. Such evidence as there is indicates that group detention centers, boot camps, and other ?get tough? programs can provide an opportunity for delinquent youth to amplify negative effects on each other. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reviewed evidence that indicates that laws increasing the ease of transferring juveniles to the adult judicial system are counterproductive and lead to greater violence in the juveniles moving through the adult systems without deterring juveniles in the general population from violent crime.
In other fields, it has been shown that identifying children as being at risk has its own hazards. Labeling a child as deficient in some respect may lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Researchers must be certain that similar problems do not happen here.
Ineffective programs may not harm the participants directly (although some do) but they may have an important toxic effect nonetheless; namely the ?opportunity cost? of funds misspent on an unsuitable program that might have been spent on an effective one.
-
Whoever is registered over there please post this in response to HappyThey'reAlive. They asked for studies showing these places can be harmful.
http://consensus.nih.gov/2004/2004Youth ... 23html.htm (http://consensus.nih.gov/2004/2004YouthViolencePreventionSOS023html.htm)
The evidence indicates that ?scare tactics? don?t work and there is some evidence that they may make the problem worse rather than simply not working. One of the hazards of the juvenile court system is the impact of having a record on the child?s subsequent life course. Such evidence as there is indicates that group detention centers, boot camps, and other ?get tough? programs can provide an opportunity for delinquent youth to amplify negative effects on each other. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reviewed evidence that indicates that laws increasing the ease of transferring juveniles to the adult judicial system are counterproductive and lead to greater violence in the juveniles moving through the adult systems without deterring juveniles in the general population from violent crime.
In other fields, it has been shown that identifying children as being at risk has its own hazards. Labeling a child as deficient in some respect may lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Researchers must be certain that similar problems do not happen here.
Ineffective programs may not harm the participants directly (although some do) but they may have an important toxic effect nonetheless; namely the ?opportunity cost? of funds misspent on an unsuitable program that might have been spent on an effective one.
You're letting them spin the burden of proof again.
They still can't prove they work after 30 fucking years to do so! That ALONE is damning enough, but go figure, we also have to go and prove they DON'T work... and yet we can do that.
Don't forget that STRAIGHT had higher cocaine use after its program than beofre it, the shit with the Shapiro student study... and the fact that all the program information is a fucking consumer satisfaction SURVEY given to graduate parents, as if thats indicative of effectiveness or whats really going on.
That, and that it actually agrees with the very thing we're accusing - its not therapy, its just brainwashing.
I believe a big fat DURR?? is in order, mostly because nobody there knows how to argue or debate at all.
-
This guy is a piece of work. Have you ever seen anyone get so angry just because they can't have the ONLY viewpoint?
Willie, you are a fucking moron. No wonder your kid is so screwed up. Just look at the example you set, you fucking cock-blower.
Rochelle
Member
Member # 5184
posted September 27, 2006 03:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This 'debate' is really getting tiresome. Like in the past the best tactic, though I know difficult to do, is probably to ignore further abusive attacks.
--------------------
Rochelle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14 | From: Seattle, Wa | Registered: May 2006 | Logged: 152.131.10.72 |
Non Prophet
Member
Member # 5273
posted September 27, 2006 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rochelle:
This 'debate' is really getting tiresome. Like in the past the best tactic, though I know difficult to do, is probably to ignore further abusive attacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Rochelle. This is good advice. From here on out I am going to ignore both Willie and mose.
In any case, wasn't this thread about behavior modification?
--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14 | From: Stamford, CT USA | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 24.161.94.22 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted September 27, 2006 05:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually think the suggestion was to ignore you, Non Prophet, since your only purpose in venturing away from your home site is to antagonize and upset the parent-posters over here. (yep, that was an ad hominem attack) Your self-proclaimed expertise doesn't seem to carry much weight here. Go to your keyboard and type w w w . f o r n i t s . c o m and you will receive the validation you are so desperately seeking.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 11 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 70.157.58.127 |
-
what's really funny is that willie is from nashville, but he's so dumb that he thinks it's "way up north." way to go willie, you're a failure of a parent and dumb as a sack of doorknobs to boot. dealing with someone as incredibly stupid as you is like dragging a bag of rocks up a hill.
-
Hi all, I haven't posted here in awhile, but wanted to say something. Because I sent my son to a wilderness and a TBS, he graduated from high school with almost straight A's, and now is in a community college, and living in a dorm and doing well. All I can say is that what I did, I did for him, so that he would have a future. He had dropped out of high school and was running around all times of the night with kids and drugs. He is doing so much better. One of the friends that he hung out with here, is now in prison. So glad my son is not there with him.
-
2/10
-
Sorry, what is 2/10??
-
1/10
You're still the same troll. The writing style shows right up. Didn't I tell you to go to ST where you belong?
-
I used to be a reg. on here, I haven't been on here for about 5 -6 months. I haven't even heard of you. I also used to be on ST, but haven't been on there either. I just don't have the time anymore. as I would rather talk to my son on the phone than spend time on ST. I used to get very nasty e-mails from "Karen on ST" telling me to stop writing on here.
I am not a troll. Just a parent, and proud of my son for being in CC and living in a dorm. He is doing ok.
Are you a parent??
-
I used to be a reg. on here, I haven't been on here for about 5 -6 months. I haven't even heard of you. I also used to be on ST, but haven't been on there either. I just don't have the time anymore. as I would rather talk to my son on the phone than spend time on ST. I used to get very nasty e-mails from "Karen on ST" telling me to stop writing on here.
I am not a troll. Just a parent, and proud of my son for being in CC and living in a dorm. He is doing ok.
Are you a parent??
You aren't on ST, so why don't you share the names of the program(s) which worked so well for your son? It spikes my suspician meter when I hear such generic terms as ' my son's tbs', a well meaning parent might construe that advice to mean that tranquility bay would help their kid as much as your son's phantom tbs. I saw you are willing to share the name of the college your son is at, so I thought it was weird the way you word your posts... smacks of self censorship and I suppose I can't pinpoint why someone with an honest agenda and advice would do that.
-
You know what? Even on the off chance you are real, we honestly don't want to hear it. It's likely to be the same, tired crap. "My son was going nowhere before I sent him to..." It's bullshit. His diploma means nothing, he's not likely to graduate college, and he probably hates you in ways you can't even imagine. Go cram it.
-
Go Cram yourself! I have posted before the name of the TBS, no need to name it again.
Just trying to defend myself on here, whatever. you say and do what you need to do, and I wish you luck in your life.
-
I have posted before the name of the TBS, no need to name it again.
:roll:
-
Meaning??
-
Where did you go "milk"??
-
Meaning??
I can't tell you from the other guests and have no idea what program you are talking about, and it's hard to frame a discussion around such generic terms. Not to mention the weirdness of not just mentioning the name in the first place. What's the reasonoing behind that action, is what I am really curious about...
-
oops... was me
-
So you are curious, huh??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
you want me to use my sign in name instead of guest??
you said "meaning", and I said "meaing what". You wanted to know the name of the TBS my son went to and thus graduated from high school with awsome grades. I said that I had told the name of it many months ago. Why are you so interested??
ARe you a parent? or just a kid, or perhaps a curious adult.
-
ARe you a parent? or just a kid, or perhaps a curious adult.
Yes.
you want me to use my sign in name instead of guest??
Could care less.
You wanted to know the name of the TBS my son went to and thus graduated from high school with awsome grades.
Yep.
I said that I had told the name of it many months ago. Why are you so interested??
Round and round we go! :P
-
I asked if you are a parent or a kid, and all you said was yes, so which are you??
The name of the TBS is: Tyler Ranch, in Spokane, WA
There, you have it, ok?
-
You going to post a reply, or do you now have the info you wanted in the first place?
-
I asked if you are a parent or a kid, and all you said was yes, so which are you??
The name of the TBS is: Tyler Ranch, in Spokane, WA
There, you have it, ok?
I told you not to post here!
-
:rofl:
-
Well, if it's isn't good ole LESLIE, here yak, yak, yaking about her little ole son, Gregg.
Can't you leave that boy alone, Leslie girl, and quit yakking about him?. Good he's at community college, and all that.
But no one cares if you can't get along over on ST...and if your pal Karen has kicked your whiny but to the curb.
Get lost.
And here's your usual advise that you just can't follow: STFU
-
Yup, I recognized Leslie's writing and story from the post on the thread. Glad to see Gregg is in college and moving on. Glad to see that you (Leslie) moved on from ST. I was off Fornit's most of the summer as well. My son was staying with me and I wanted to spend my time with him, not here.
What I don't understand is why you bother to tolerate the hate spewed responses or bother to defend yourself. You don't have to. You did what you did.
Mind you, I am no fan of these tough-love programs. They may work for some and harm others, but to me that is not really relevant. It is what they do to the kids during their stay that bothers me. It's the philosphy behind the programs that really bothers and scares me.
-
Never ceases to amaze...
-
Leslie6
Member
Member # 4834
posted September 30, 2006 05:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carefull what you say Mose, they have quoted from what you have said on here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 153 | From: Anchorage, Alaska | Registered: Jul 2005 | Logged: 69.178.112.159 |
mose
Member
Member # 2980
posted October 01, 2006 06:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Leslie,
I have nothing to be careful about.
That is what they do when they are banished from this site for making unsubstantiated claims and allegations and baiting parents on this board.
I do not want to be informed again what they are doing. I would appreciate if you did not give me updates or mention me over there. I am sure Karen from Dallas does not appreciate you making snide remarks about her private posts to you when she was so gracious and helpful to extend her hand and send you private emails.
In my opinion, I think you would be better served if you started taking care of your emotional well-being and stopped being the whipping boy for the people on that site.
Thank You,
Mose
[ October 01, 2006, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: mose ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1006 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 |
this "mose" shows signs of a serious psychological disorder.
amazing how "mose" just flogs "Leslie" and then tells "Leslie" she's the whipping-child of this board. then "mose" goes on to air a private conversation between "Leslie" and "Karen" (speaking for Karen, too) while simultaneously condemning "Leslie" for the same behavior. wow, "mose," that's some seriously disturbed thinking there, buddy.
"mose," whoever you are, you are one very, very disturbed person. to think that you ever had control over anyone, like your children, is frightening.
-
Typical that Jena would delete all of Non Prophets posts for not citing the studies mentioned, before first requesting the links.
Also interesting, HappyTheyreAlive believes that Behrens "survey/study" was independent.
The study implies that NATSAP programs are "licensed". How many are licensed? Their flagship program, HLA, isn?t and hasn't been since its inception.
This was not an Independent study. One must consider the author?s connections with the industry.
C Smoot employed by AEG and serveral other RTCs.
Smoot and Behrens co-create Evidence Based Consulting.
Behrens Clinical Director for AEG's Youth Care program, Member NATSAP.
Smoots 'partner' with AEGs Youth Care program.
Smoots are 'associates' of Open Sky Wilderness, Member NATSAP.
Behrens creates Canyon Research and Consulting- most of their clients are AEG programs.
Smoot and Behrens pitch EBC to NATSAP.
Dr. Kevin Fenstermacher employed by both EBC and CRC.
Looks more like a concerted effort to shore up the industry?s reputation, and give parents a false sense of security.
Who is Ellen Behrens, lead researcher at Canyon Research & Consulting, Salt Lake City, Utah?
Sept 2005- AEG?s Youth Care in Draper, Utah ?partners? with Evidence Based Consulting (EBC), a group of psychologists. (Only 2 listed- Tracine and Carl Smoot)- committed to fulfilling the National Institute of Mental Health's agenda for the application of evidence-based research in testing, assessment and treatment.
This is how the innovative partnership works: EBC provides testing services for Youth Care students by using up-to-date psychological tests, interpretive strategies, and treatment recommendations that are suggested in the research literature. In collaboration with Youth Care therapists, a strategic treatment plan is developed, utilizing research-based practices and measurements. The additional perspective of EBC psychologists provides the best possible assessments and treatment for Youth Care students.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5186.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5186.shtml)
More on Evidence Based Consulting
http://www.evidencebasedconsulting.com/ (http://www.evidencebasedconsulting.com/)
Behrens, Clinical Dir of Youth Care
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=218094#218094 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=218094#218094)
Smoot?s are ?Associates? of Open Sky Wilderness
Prior to completing his graduate work, Carl was employed in hospital management. He successfully ran two inpatient psychiatry programs and was later a therapist at (AEGs) Youth Care, Inc.
http://www.openskywilderness.com/assoc.htm (http://www.openskywilderness.com/assoc.htm)
Oct 2005- AEG hosts workshop in Utah. One of the guest speakers:
Ellen Behrens, PhD discussed out of home treatment outcome research. She is the co-founder of Evidence Based Consulting. Behrens was the principal investigator for a large, multi-center study on student outcomes in residential treatment.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5204.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5204.shtml)
June ?05 Ellen Behrens and Tracine Smoot pitch ?Evidence-based Practice? to NATSAP members.
http://www.natsap.org/Newsletters/NATSA ... letter.pdf (http://www.natsap.org/Newsletters/NATSAP%20Summer%20Newsletter.pdf)
Dr. Kevin Fenstermacher works for both ?Evidence Based Consulting? (Smoots) and ?Canyon Research and Consulting? (Behrens).
http://canyonrc.com/experience.html (http://canyonrc.com/experience.html)
http://psychologicalsolutions.info/exec ... 0team.html (http://psychologicalsolutions.info/executive%20team.html)
Who are CRCs clients? And, who funded this study?
http://canyonrc.com/experience.html (http://canyonrc.com/experience.html)
A whole slew of AEG programs.
Under Links at CRCs website one is taken to the APAs Empirically Supported Treatments page. http://www.apa.org/divisions/div12/rev_est/index.html (http://www.apa.org/divisions/div12/rev_est/index.html)
Their recommendations, under Oppositional Disorders:
Because the immediate goal of treatment is to develop parenting skills, the therapist begins by having parents apply new skills to relatively simple problems (e.g., compliance, completion of chores, oppositional behavior). As parents become proficient using the initial techniques, the child's most serious problem behaviors at home and in school are addressed (e.g., fighting, poor school performance, truancy, stealing, firesetting). In most PMT (PARENT Management Training) programs, the therapist maintains close telephone contact with the parents in-between sessions. These contacts are used to encourage parents to ask questions about the home programs, to provide an opportunity for the therapist to prompt compliance with the behavior-change programs and reinforce parents' use of the skills, to strengthen the therapeutic alliance, and to allow the therapist to problem-solve when programs are not modifying child behavior effectively.
II. Summary of Studies Supporting Treatment Efficacy
PMT is one of the most extensively studied therapies for children and has been shown to be effective in decreasing oppositional, aggressive, and antisocial behavior (for reviews of research, see Dumas, 1989; Forehand & Long, 1988; Kazdin, 1985; Miller & Prinz, 1990; Moreland, Schwebel, Beck, & Wells, 1982). Randomized controlled trials have found that PMT is more effective in changing antisocial behavior and promoting prosocial behavior than many other treatments (e.g. relationship, play therapy, family therapies, varied community services) and control conditions (e.g. waiting-list, "attention-placebo"). Follow-up data have shown that gains are maintained from posttreatment to 1 and 3 years after treatment has ended. One research team found that noncompliant children treated by parent training were functioning as well as nonclinic individuals approximately 14 years later (Long, Forehand, Wierson, & Morgan, 1994). The benefits of PMT often generalize to areas that are not focused on directly during therapy. For example, improvements in parental adjustment and functioning, marital satisfaction, and sibling behavior have been found following therapy. Overall, perhaps no other technique has been as carefully documented and empirically supported as PMT in treating conduct problems.
A unique feature of PMT is the abundance of research on child, parent, and family factors that moderate treatment effects. Moreover, PMT, either alone or in combination with other techniques, has been applied with promising effects to other populations including autistic children, mentally retarded children and adolescents, adjudicated delinquents, and parents who physically abuse their children. The principles and procedures on which PMT relies have also been applied in many settings including schools, institutions, community homes, day-care facilities, and facilities for the elderly.
http://www.apa.org/divisions/div12/rev_ ... child.html (http://www.apa.org/divisions/div12/rev_est/pmt_child.html)
One must also consider the report presented August 12 at the American Psychological Association Convention by Allison Pinto PhD.
http://apinto.blog.usf.edu/2006/08/21/e ... -treatment (http://apinto.blog.usf.edu/2006/08/21/exploitation-of-youth-families-perspectives-on-unregulated-residential-treatment)
-
Well, Leslie needs to grow up; posting here and then "tattle-telling on ST" is just childish, silly behavior. And, what's the point? No one here cares.
Leslie has been informed that revealing every, single detail about her son is just not wise, and could be harmful to her relationship with her son. What is it about that she doesn't get?
No one has asked for a blow-by-blow account of this young man's life; and he deserves some privacy and respect....
Nor, does anyone care about this woman's drug problems, her ex-husband, or any of the other personal things she rants about.
-
Incorrect. The armchair "mental health professionals" on this site begged her for information and then used it against her. This is tantamount to picking on the kids on the "short bus." And, if you really care about her kid then you will stop naming him just to prove your point. She needs to stop and so do all of you.
-
Incorrect. The armchair "mental health professionals" on this site begged her for information and then used it against her. This is tantamount to picking on the kids on the "short bus." And, if you really care about her kid then you will stop naming him just to prove your point. She needs to stop and so do all of you.
Ou Contraire! (yeah I prolly fucked that up)
You know what the real purpose of fornits is to do, right?
SHOW HOW FUCKED UP THE INDUSTRY IS!
Its doing a damn fine job of showing just how messed up it all is by letting people speak openly. I bet this dialogue has scared off many a befuddled parent, and will continue to scare off many more. ;)
-
What really scares people off are all of the colored people on this board. I'm getting scared just talking about them... Shit! Here comes one of them now!!!! :scared:
-
Whatever everyone, I just came back for a bit, but see that everything is the same, and people from ST telling me not to post here either.
whatever
-
Leslie, are you bipolar by any chance? You seem to have some real issues. We don't want you here- ST doesn't want you there. What's the common denominator? Are you wanting your very own thread? You deserved the ass-ripping Mose gave you and I'm sure Karen and the others are doing the same thing privately, unless they have given up in disgust. Aren't you the very same Leslie that vowed never to post here again. You are a complete fool, which is why it is easy to see why young Gregg turned to drugs. Shit-I want to turn to drugs everytime you show up here.
-
What did she post on ST? I tried to look but she deleted her posts. Damn, I just went back and read from page 7 on when she started posting again. What a friggin lunatic.
-
She's a druggie lunatic that didn't even clean house for a year--according to her own posts. She posts every movement her poor son makes, and all the poor kid wants to do is attend some community college AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS BROAD AS HE CAN GET.
She constantly posts about her ex-husband, who ALSO got AS FAR AWAY FROM HER AS POSSIBLE, and she constantly posts about him and his new wife.
LESLIE needs to get a job--she posts that she was fired from the last one she had--and get a fucking life!
-
What did she post on ST that she deleted?
-
She posted to Mose to warn Mose that her (his?) posts were being posted over here. Mose ripped her for it so she came over here and whined about Mose and Karen telling her not to post over here. She expected sympathy????????? Leslie- what happened to your new boyfriend? Did he fly the coop?
-
Wow. ::bwahaha::
What did she do to piss of the ST sheep?
-
The ST sheep are probably just sick and tired of Leslie posting the "fornits-said-ST-said-I-said-you-said" bullshit. .
Then,Leslie posts her crap here. Then, she posts on ST, always declaring, "I'm never going to post on fornits, again, because I just love you parents here on ST."
Then, within minutes: she's right back on fornits, revealing everything she knows about her little ST "friends" and her own personal life.
This ain't JR. HIGH, Leslie, and we ain't your buddies.
I think Leslie has gotten the same message from ST.
Maybe this woman is just too isolated up there in Alaska.
Maybe she needs some friends.
But, she sure is going about it in a strange, strange way.
-
Load Wadbury circles the wagons of censorship to cover up his family's bad deeds...
Terry_MO
Junior Member
Member # 5232
posted October 02, 2006 03:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a xxxx escort drugged and raped a girl, Denise Woodberry was the Boundary County Prosecuting Attorney. Though the rapist, Armstrong, was clearly guilty. He was not prosecuted by Woodberry, why?
I read about this case it was proven that he did the crime why no prosicution?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 5 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 24.216.122.200 |
exhausted
Member
Member # 5259
posted October 02, 2006 04:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do know it is extremely difficult to prove rape, often the victim showers or delays seeking medical help - often the assailant will admit to intercourse but argues she (or he) consented, it's up to the girl to prove otherwise, when two people are having sex, there's rarely anyone else around, so it's her word against his
This is why so many rapes go unreprted, the system sucks big time and very little sympathy is given to the victim, that works both ways, here in the UK a man has just served 5 years for a rape he did not commit, the young lady in question is a serial 'rape crier' it's a real shame there are ppl like her about because she has ruined this mans life - it doesn't matter if he gets an honourable pardon, the seed of doubt has been sewn and others will always be apprehensive of him 'just in case'
You will never get the full details of what happened to this girl, or what happened during the case to cause this outcome...it's sad, but unfortunately not uncommon
It makes you angry inside I know.....
--------------------
Help help help help help ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 50 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.68.95.220 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 02, 2006 04:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without having all the evidence, it is hard to tell if someone is clearly guilty, as you state. Perhaps he was, but perhaps the prosecuting attorney had information that was not revealed in the press or reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 16 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 68.154.188.175 |
Lon
Administrator
Member # 53
posted October 02, 2006 08:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry_MO:
You seem to consistently bring up these old half-truths. In this case the facts are:
1. The "girl" in question was middle age, about Armstrong's age, and working as an escort with Armstrong.
2. They had been living together for some time.
3. She filed a civil case against Armstrong.
4. The local police investigated to see if any crime had been committed.
5. The "girl" refused to cooperate with the police so they could not make a recommendation to the prosecutor Denise Woodbury.
6. A prosecutor can only take action if there is an investigation and recommendation by the police.
7. It was largely a contract dispute, with rape and drugging issues thrown in.
8. The jury came out in favor of the "girl".
9. The attorney for her never contacted the Boundary County prosecutor nor made any move to make this a criminal issue.
10. The attorney for her later was convicted of a felony, indicating his ethics might have been challenged.
I am closing this thread off from further discussion.
Lon
Board Owner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 480 | From: Bonners Ferry, ID | Registered: Aug 1998 | Logged: 67.142.130.37 |
Load, you're such a tool. It's not enough for you to rebut, you have to silence any response to your rebuttal. You, Wadbury, are a fucking disgrace.
-
"It's not enough for you to rebut, you have to silence any response to your rebuttal."
What, pray tell, would a rebuttal to facts contain?
-
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... oodbury%22 (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=%22Denise+Woodbury%22)
WOW! Lon's lovely wife has a history of serious unethical conduct!
I wonder if she uses the power of her office to keep Lon from doing the time he so richly deserves for pimping abusive programs???
This may need a WHOLE NEW THREAD!
-
When he does that you know you've made your point. He shuts it down because he can't seriously and competently defend his position. So he acts like a child and does exactly what you just said. Posts his attempt to refute what you're saying and then runs.
What are you so afraid of Lon? Can't handle a little debate?
-
"It's not enough for you to rebut, you have to silence any response to your rebuttal."
What, pray tell, would a rebuttal to facts contain?
what "facts"? just because lon the tool says something, it's fact? even when gis crooked wife is involved in the case? i don't think so. everything out of tool's mouth (or keyboard) should be vigorously vetted because that motherfucker is a consummate prevaricator. google his wife. she's a lowlife loser, too.
-
poor Willie just has no life...
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 01, 2006 01:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said, Mose. There are better ways to get attention than posting on fornits.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 14 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 70.157.40.247 |
yeah, Willie, like posting on StrugglingTeens! what a fucking dope.
i'm still befuddled as to how Willie thinks Nashville is "way up north." makes ya wonder about the intellectual caliber of this retard.
-
Guys? Picking on the struggling tards is like shooting fish in a barrel, only the fish are inside the barrel of your 12 gauge. Put your efforts into better things, like shutting down hellholes.
-
"Guest wrote:
"It's not enough for you to rebut, you have to silence any response to your rebuttal."
What, pray tell, would a rebuttal to facts contain?
what "facts"? just because lon the tool says something, it's fact? even when gis crooked wife is involved in the case? i don't think so. everything out of tool's mouth (or keyboard) should be vigorously vetted because that motherfucker is a consummate prevaricator. google his wife. she's a lowlife loser, too"[/color]
so ... what are the "real" "facts"?[/color]
?
?
-
the "real facts" are that toolbury and his wife have a long, sordid history of running afoul of the law and ethics. anything that lon says must be thoroughly vetted because he is a liar and a shill. those are the facts.
-
The real facts are exactly as Lon stated on his post. Any research can confirm this.
-
The real facts are exactly as Lon stated on his post. Any research can confirm this.
so post it then. do the work. prove your case.
my only point is that lon and his wife are nothing more than a couple of criminals who lie, cheat and steal to make a living. rebut that, asshole.
-
Jena
Administrator
Member # 1044
posted September 13, 2006 08:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carrie has moved back in with me, with her baby daughter. She had been staying with my mom in CA, but it was time for them to come home. Carrie and the father of her child got married while in CA, but Carrie learned what many of us know....marriage does not turn flaky losers into men of responsibility. Why must we learn these lessons the hard way???? oh well.
She decided to live with me so she could go to school. I have told her that I will support her and the baby, except for her car insurance, gas, diapers, etc. She can get by with a part time job. She got here too late for this semester, but she is working on signing up for next semester.
She will have a long college career...the last time she was in a "real" school was in the sixth grade. She has missed so many things in school. She has a GED, but is missing alot that will have to be made up. She knows this and is ready to get started.
Baby Hiedi is 16 months old. I love this age. She runs around, she talks a bit, but has not yet hit the terrible twos. She is an easy-going and friendly baby. She is warming up to me, but doesn't really know me since she's been gone for a year. I know that moving is hard, plus she has "lost" my mom, who was her primary grandma.
I am proud of my daughter. She is a good mom. I have total faith that she will continue improving herself and building a better life for herself and her daughter.
It has been almost ten years since our little side trip into heck and back. It was long, it was hard, it challenged everything I thought I knew and I came out a very different person than I was going in. A better person.
All the money, all the time, all the heartache, all the risks I took...all the battles were worth it. I'm glad she's home again.
Jena
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1045 | From: Paris, IL | Registered: Sep 2000 | Logged: 12.166.20.143 |
No wonder Jena the Bigot doesn't allow dissenting opinions on ST: she's a failure as a parent, too! Funny how these birds flock together, huh?
-
I'm sure Lon and his wife are shaking in their shoes over your anger towards them. Similarly, I'm sure Jena values your opinion of her parenting and is heartbroken that you don't approve of her.
How do you figure she's a bigot? Has she removed only posts attributable to a racial minority? Or-does discrimination against fornits assholes qualify as bigotry now?
Gimme an L (L) Gimme an O (O) Gimme an S (S) Gimmer an E (E) Gimme an R (R) What do ya got? LOSER!!!!!!!!
-
Gimme an L (L) Gimme an O (O) Gimme an S (S) Gimmer an E (E) Gimme an R (R) What do ya got?
a stupid cunt failure of a parent who's life is so pathetic all she does is troll a message board trying to make kids feel bad about themselves. or, YOU.[/quote]
-
Or-does discrimination against fornits assholes qualify as bigotry now?
Wow. You say a lot about yourself here. Discrimination against anyone is bigotry, my ignorant friend.
Here's you: "Since when is hanging a nigger racist? It's only a lowlife nigger"
Get the picture, stupid?
-
Removing inane posts from those who don't deserve the privilege of posting on ST is not bigotry- it's extremely good judgment and consideration for those who actually have something to contribute.
You have your site filled with bullshit- no need to let it seep over to ST. This is bigotry? With the racist, sexist, rude crap on this forum YOU have the gall to call someone a bigot? Ok....
-
Removing inane posts from those who don't deserve the privilege of posting on ST is not bigotry- it's extremely good judgment and consideration for those who actually have something to contribute.
You have your site filled with bullshit- no need to let it seep over to ST. This is bigotry? With the racist, sexist, rude crap on this forum YOU have the gall to call someone a bigot? Ok....
we don't remove your inanities and drivel, loser. we let you say your piece, even if you are a bigoted idiot. see the difference? probably not, considering your low IQ.
you say you don't like what goes on here, but there you are, contributing your nonsense all along. you are a HYPOCRITICAL BIGOT.
-
Jena
Administrator
Member # 1044
posted September 30, 2006 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Post.
I would like to say a few things.
I had a very long, hard battle with my daughter. Today, we have a very strong relationship. She does not always do what I want her to do, but I know that our RELATIONSHIP is rock solid. I will never, EVER, EVER lose my daughter again. She might do bad things, but I won't lose her. I don't know how to put that into words, but it is everything...everything that I fought for, really.
The key to getting to this point was my being able to move past the pain, the anger, the fear...oh my god, the fear! It really is PTSD because when she'd come back from whatever program, school or jail she'd been in...it would all come crashing back in on me. Just like a huge wave....whoose.....right back to it. It's instinctual and sort of primal and if you experience it, you will be surprised at how it can overwhelm you so suddenly, despite all the good things that have happened in her absence. You think you have gotten somewhere with all this and then they walk in the door and BAM.
Very nice, Jena. Your kid goes program to program to program and YOU'VE got PTSD? You are a selfish loser, Jena. You're so shortsighted that you can't see how you contributed to the ruination of your kid's life and all you want is for people to feel sorry for YOU?
What drugs are you on, Jena? You need a lot of help, dear.
-
for jena
(http://http://moblog.co.uk/blogs/2541/moblog_bfb2fc0fd2f37.jpg)
-
Nice! She needs that. And everyone's sympathy that she had to neglect her child.
-
what the fuck is wrong with this "mose" character????
mose
Member
Member # 2980
posted July 04, 2006 05:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is she willing to listen to reason and learn the truth about abortions without all the rhetoric surrounding it from religious groups, this way you can take her for abortion. The earlier the better.
I recently talked to my daughter about my abortions when I was a teenager and young adult, and it was an enlightening conversation for me since her and her boyfriend had all types of terrible misinformation and believed all the myths that are perpetuated. It allowed her to see it as a very mature decision and a medical procedure that is legal in our country!
listen to mose. if you can't force your kid to kill that baby now, you'll only have to ship it off to a program in a few years anyway! save the cash and kill the baby now.
too bad for mose that after she killed a couple of babies (i guess she wasn't smart enough to figure out birth control) she STILL had to send hers to a program. go figure.
-
Are you really so bored that you have to dig up posts from July? Who cares.
-
It's not boredom. It's a case-study in the freakishness of some ST posters.
Who cares when the post is from? What's important is the twisted thoughts and behaviors of this complete whack-job "mose."
What you're saying is that you care more about when something was posted than you do about how children are treated. Nice.
-
Some people are pro-abortion. It is an option. It is not everyone's personal choice. But it IS a choice. If you don't like that choice- fine. But it can be a good option for an unplanned pregnancy and there is nothing wrong with Mose suggesting it. I hardly think that makes her a "whack-job". I think YOU are making yourself look quite foolish for seizing upon the topic of abortion to discredit a parent-poster from ST.
-
Now, now...
-
Some people are pro-abortion. It is an option. It is not everyone's personal choice. But it IS a choice. If you don't like that choice- fine. But it can be a good option for an unplanned pregnancy and there is nothing wrong with Mose suggesting it. I hardly think that makes her a "whack-job". I think YOU are making yourself look quite foolish for seizing upon the topic of abortion to discredit a parent-poster from ST.
back again today, huh? i guess you really ARE serious about neglecting your kids full-time. you do nothing but respond over and over to posts on this board. and you tell other people to "get a life"? you are a loser, plain and simple.
-
Interesting to see this attack on a pro-choice parent here. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. Just because a person has suffered in a teen gulag and had their civil and human rights violated, that doesn't automatically make them a liberal.
You can probably find plenty of ex-program victims whose beliefs are more toward the Religious Right end of the spectrum. Due to the nature of the brainwashings they received, it might even be more likely that program survivors lean to the right than to the left.
-
Interesting to see this attack on a pro-choice parent here. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. Just because a person has suffered in a teen gulag and had their civil and human rights violated, that doesn't automatically make them a liberal.
You can probably find plenty of ex-program victims whose beliefs are more toward the Religious Right end of the spectrum. Due to the nature of the brainwashings they received, it might even be more likely that program survivors lean to the right than to the left.
I think it has more to do with the fact that this is how these people choose to deal with their problems. If they can't kill it, they send it away. It's actually quite disturbing.
Reading that psycho mose's posts it seems that she takes no responsibility for anything. She aborted several babies (maybe before she figured out where babies come from) then when she finally had one, she neglected it and sent it to a program.
I just can't wrap my head around around why these people reproduce in the first place. Unwanted children are unwanted children, whether they're a fetus or a teenager. If you don't want your kids, mose, use a condom.
-
hb
Member
Member # 4818
I was wondering if any parents on this forum had a son/daughter who relapsed within a month or so after graduation? I am starting to see several tell-tale signs that concern me. Is there any advice for trying to nip this in the bud now? Our son just turned 18 this week, so my options are limited. I also feel like I have done all that I could have done at this point. When is enough, enough? Posts: 184 | From: PA | Registered: Jun 2005 | Logged: 151.201.10.164 | Report this post to a Moderator
katsmom
Member
Member # 4446
My daughter graduated HS at her program in June and then came home. She will be 19 in November. She relapsed two months after graduation but only for a weekend and told us immediately (actually I knew it immediately before she told us). We now go out to lunch at least once a week and I have her drug tested at a lab. I think she's thankful for the accountability.
In retrospect, I think we should have made drug testing part of our home contract so she would not have been tempted and I also think it would have been better to have her not come back to our home town. I think I should have insisted upon a sober living house/college attendance/job and upon success with that then more priviledges. That said, the situation is what it is and it is now up to her. She learned a lot in her program and knows what she needs to do to be healthy mentally and physically.
I do feel that we've done all we can do and the only other thing I would do at this point is offer to pay for sober living if she eventually feels that she needs it. Right now she is in an apartment and attending college. She has not had luck on getting a job yet and was dropped from one college class. It's going to be a long road with a lot of one step forward, two steps back but our relationship is a LOT different than before she went to her program and I'm thankful for that. Posts: 267 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Nov 2004 | Logged: 75.5.13.88 | Report this post to a Moderator
sallie
Junior Member
Member # 4858
Hi hb,
I feel for you and am happy to share our experience. Hope it helps.
Our son came home in June after 15 months at a TBS and in the wilderness. He was then three months shy of his 18th birthday. Although we drug tested him every three days (as recommended by his TBS), it didn't take long before he was testing positive for marijuana. We had been warned by his TBS that he would be most susceptible to relapse during the first few months at home. After considerably more than "three strikes" and one positive test for cocaine, we sadly and lovingly enforced the bottom line of our home agreement and asked him to live elsewhere. (This was really hard for us to do, particularly since he was not yet 18 and had his senior year of high school ahead of him). We told him that he was welcome back if he could remain sober for thirty days and commit to staying sober while he lives with us. His best friend's family was kind enough to take him in and, although we had concerns about him moving from our bed and breakfast to theirs, the experience proved to be difficult enough for him. He had to sleep on the floor and live out of a suitcase. He missed a family vacation. He lost his job because he overslept on one too many occasions and had no ride to work. Things like that. He visited us once a week or so while he was gone and returned home at the end of August just before the start of school. For now, he is sober, going to school, and happily playing bass in a garage band. He is considerate, tells us he loves us, and adheres to our curfews. He plans to go to college and major in creative writing next fall. We are very grateful for this respite in our lives and know that things could be very different tomorrow.
Like yours, our son is now 18 and there is not much we can do to influence him other than exercise "the power of the purse." If he resumes using, we will once again ask him to leave. If he wants it (to date, he has not), we will offer to pay for counseling, treatment, sober living, etc.
For us, it helped to figure out our bottom line and then stick to it. While we were willing to be flexible on curfews and things like that, we could not sit by and watch our special guy slip away again as he sabotaged his still-developing brain.
It's a long journey we're all on. It's nice to have a forum like this where we can find friends to ride along. My best wishes are with you and your family. Posts: 5 | From: Portland | Registered: Jul 2005 | Logged: 24.22.116.1 | Report this post to a Moderator
itsme
Member
Member # 5144
My daughter went to wilderness March 25th at age 18, struggling with coming home from college, depression, drug use. She went to wilderness with the hopes that she would be able to get her life back together, but not really wanting to go. She graduated May 9th and went to a treatment center with renewed hope of a chemical free life ahead. She relapsed 1 week after her arrival there, on Saki, at a restaurant with other girls from her program. She says it was too much freedom too soon. She wasn't caught for another two weeks, and so at that point, she decided this was a good opportunity for a really good relapse (serious street drugs), since she was in trouble already. She walked out of her program and was not in contact with anyone for 12 days. The worst 12 days of my life. She went back to her treatment center after swallowing all her medication and ending up hospitalized in the beginning of June. She "graduated" to the sober living phase because she had everyone around her snowed as to her level of recovery. She relapsed again and was kicked out of the sober living and had to move to another sober living house around the end of July. There, she attended the required meetings, but continued to relapse. She agreed to go to a very intensive treatment center for 90 days, though she didn't really think she needed it. She thought she was doing pretty well. We just attended her Family Week. She has been there for 60 days today. The treatment team and her peers cannot believe the change in this young woman since her arrival on August 9th. (I say they should have seen her when we took her to wilderness!) Anyway, our daughter is back. All her drive and personality and ambition is back. She's full of self esteem and she's HAPPY!! She said something clicked inside her where she realized that this is something she really wants and believes she can have. A sober life. She showed us the sober living area where she plans to live after she graduates the program and how it is more structured and why she thinks it will work for her when others didn't. She told us of her plans to get a job and see if she can attend a class at the University across the street from her sober living. She doesn't want to have access to her entire paycheck until she's sure she can handle it when the time comes, and she wants to budget so she can help with rent. She plans to start volunteer work telling her story to kids and groups because she has become comfortable telling her story and realizes she can help others. She was proud to tell us that she is the only "patient" in her program that has a leadership role, she leads meditation every morning. She (I'm sure painstakingly) didn't ask us for money even though I know she has none. I'm so happy now that I want to shout to the world that "My daughter is going to be FINE!" But I know better and I'm afraid I will jinx it if I get too proud again. We have been told that Relapse is a part of recovery. I will try and not let my whole world fall apart again if we do get that news. I told her that I've been afraid of my notes to her or our few conversations we have had, that I might say something that would contribute to her disease. She told me that nothing I could say could cause her to relapse or not relapse, that it is all on her and they are her choices to make. She wants so badly not to dissapoint us again, but addiction is POWERFUL! So, I plan to work on my own recovery and growth and support her in her recovery, but not if she should choose to not work her program and continue using all the tools she has learned for how to live clean and sober. Zero tolerance for me. It really is amazing to see what a strong bond and what close relationships are formed for these people who have had these kinds of struggles in their lives. Their communication skills and their love and compassion for one another is awesome. I am happy that she has the opportunity to have that kind of a life and connection with people. I'm also happy for my new awareness and views on life that are a result of what we've been through. I see a rainbow at the end of this storm. Posts: 48 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2006 | Logged: 71.112.161.52 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
I am aware of many relapses after kids come home from TBS or wilderness. There are so many variables it is hard to say why some kids do and some don't. If there was NOT much of a substance problem in the first place, the odds are better for not relapsing post-program. Addiction is a tough one, and teenage brains think they can "handle" a few joints or beers. If they have something they want to protect- staying in a particular school, being allowed to remain in the house, being on a team or part of a church or structured social group, there is less chance of a relapse. Unfortunately, parents can do everything right and there still can be a relapse. It's a tough road. I recently read about a teen who successfully completed a program and over a year of college and then committed suicide. The parents were still grateful for the program which really helped their son for a few years and gave him some peace before he succumbed to his inner demons. Without the program they easily could have lost him sooner.
Does the high percentage of relapse mean programs are not effective or a waste of time and money? I don't agree with that at all. I think, as parents, we take whatever steps are possible given financial means and the age of the teen. Nothing is more important than our children, and we try everything. The hope is that even with a relapse, the tools are in place to draw upon at some point. Posts: 19 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 70.157.60.192 | Report this post to a Moderator
janebrain22000
Member
Member # 4182
Hi,
my dtr attended an rtc in Utah from May 2004-Jan. 2005. She was still only 16 when she came home. She started relapsing but I didn't realize it at first. She was raped the day before her 17th birthday in May (was involved with drugs at the time) and then she didn't try to hide her relapse anymore. She got heavily into hard drugs and ended up being court ordered to a dual diagnosis facility in October of last year. She remained there til March of 2006 and managed to get herself kicked out and we brought her home. She left our house in May to live with her boyfriend and by then she was nearly 18. I basically have said enough is enough. However, in my state, you are still legally and financially responsible til the kid turns 21 so we can't just be done with her. Right now DSS is helping us come up with a contract in order for her to get assistance from us and she is living at our local Red Cross shelter. Due to circumstances with my younger dtr I will not allow her to live in our house anymore. That is a huge relief for me--that is my bottom line. She absolutely cannot live with us again. We will help her get set up with an apt. and she will have to get a job.
I don't know if the rtc was really worth it--E thinks the rehab she went to (which was much cheaper--like $5000 a month cheaper) was actually more helpful. It wasn't a lockdown and the kids could get away with more stuff--more like the "real world." She can talk like a therapist--she doesn't buy into the talk though, that's the problem.
Anyway, I think at some point enough is enough and you will know when you are there! Good luck,
Jane Posts: 58 | From: Ithaca,NY | Registered: Apr 2004 | Logged: 128.253.7.28 | Report this post to a Moderator
-
absolutely great post!
She says it was too much freedom too soon.
These parents are realizing they paid to have their kid 'succeed' in a completely false environment. It's easy to force a kid to do well according to your standards when they don't have a choice. Not so easy when they are no longer under their control, and have to deal with the fact their parents are insane and they just went through the twilight zone. In the long run, programs do much more damage than good, as this post shows. :o
-
Many kids do just fine after TBS/RTC. Some don't. Your point in posting all this is???????
-
Many kids do just fine after TBS/RTC. Some don't. Your point in posting all this is???????
I think Outlaw said it quite well. Read for comprehension kids. Tsk tsk.
These parents are realizing they paid to have their kid 'succeed' in a completely false environment. It's easy to force a kid to do well according to your standards when they don't have a choice. Not so easy when they are no longer under their control, and have to deal with the fact their parents are insane and they just went through the twilight zone. In the long run, programs do much more damage than good, as this post shows.
-
What this post shows is one person's experience.
-
What this post shows is one person's experience.
This one? Yep. You're experienced in posting.
-
What this post shows is one person's experience.
Yeah, so? What do you think YOU post?
-
You do realize that posting "that's just your opinion" or any variation thereof means an automatic forfeit of the argument, right?
Retard.
The reason this is all being reposted is not only to make me physically ill, it's also to demonstrate that they can't see the forest for the trees. The programs don't work, and even the troubled parents are running into that reality, in one of the rare occurrences where they interact with reality at all.
-
There are more parents that report good results from programs than are concluding that "programs don't work". For all your bullshit, you still are unable to provide other options. Your crap about local counseling, community resources etc.- gee, why didn't the parents think of that? The bottom line is that a reputable, well-researched program is a last resort for kids who can no longer live in the family and community. Residential placement is used by loving parents who will go to any lengths to help their kids. There are a number of excellent programs with caring and competent staff who have helped thousands of teens get back on the right track. Many of these teens are very successful post-program. Some are not. A lot of teens don't do too well after regular high school.
In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are immature little kids who think you understand parents and think you know what goes on in the programs that are being used by the majority of the parents on the ST site in this, the 21st century. We are not living in the 80s or the 90s. Sorry, folks, we know what we are doing.
-
The reason this is all being reposted is not only to make me physically ill, it's also to demonstrate that they can't see the forest for the trees. The programs don't work, and even the troubled parents are running into that reality, in one of the rare occurrences where they interact with reality at all.
Yeah, me too when I read it. Sorry 'bout that. Unfortunate side effect of exposure to the brain dead. I can only handle spending short amounts of time over there.
-
This one takes the cake. How can these people be so blind?
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
I am aware of many relapses after kids come home from TBS or wilderness. There are so many variables it is hard to say why some kids do and some don't. If there was NOT much of a substance problem in the first place, the odds are better for not relapsing post-program. Addiction is a tough one, and teenage brains think they can "handle" a few joints or beers. If they have something they want to protect- staying in a particular school, being allowed to remain in the house, being on a team or part of a church or structured social group, there is less chance of a relapse. Unfortunately, parents can do everything right and there still can be a relapse. It's a tough road. I recently read about a teen who successfully completed a program and over a year of college and then committed suicide. The parents were still grateful for the program which really helped their son for a few years and gave him some peace before he succumbed to his inner demons. Without the program they easily could have lost him sooner.
Does the high percentage of relapse mean programs are not effective or a waste of time and money? I don't agree with that at all. I think, as parents, we take whatever steps are possible given financial means and the age of the teen. Nothing is more important than our children, and we try everything. The hope is that even with a relapse, the tools are in place to draw upon at some point.
-
How can YOU be so blind and unable to accept the reality that there are many kids who ARE helped by programs. Why don't you focus your energy on going after programs that are truly abusive or run by religious fanatics and leave the good programs who help teens and families alone. You have no credibility with the way you operate and all it does is how your immaturity and lack of judgement.
-
How can YOU be so blind and unable to accept the reality that there are many kids who ARE helped by programs. Why don't you focus your energy on going after programs that are truly abusive or run by religious fanatics and leave the good programs who help teens and families alone. You have no credibility with the way you operate and all it does is how your immaturity and lack of judgement.
When you can provide me with some kind of proof that these programs work (i.e. research, clinical studies, NOT anecdotes), we'll talk. Until then I'm sure you'll continue to keep your head buried in the sand.
Which programs do you consider to be "good"?
-
How can YOU be so blind and unable to accept the reality that there are many kids who ARE helped by programs. Why don't you focus your energy on going after programs that are truly abusive or run by religious fanatics and leave the good programs who help teens and families alone. You have no credibility with the way you operate and all it does is how your immaturity and lack of judgement.
I'm focusing my energies on trying to get parents to do their fucking jobs instead of outsourcing them to strangers in another state.
-
Do you seriously see nothing wrong with what Willie Nelson posted?
-
Every piece of effort you spend on talking to a Struggling Tard is effort better served in getting a shitpit shut down. These people are seriously not worth our time.
-
I think it can be equally as, if not more important to expose the underlying problem. How parents think and why they fall prey to these assholes.
-
It's simple, really- it requires a certain recipe.
The first ingredient is the belief that they deserve absolute control over can their children and can do whatever they want to them. The second is a certain mental weakness- the sort that can be exploited by cultists. The third is deep pockets.
That's really about it. The actual mental state, addiction, etc of the child in question is largely irrelevant. Snake oil to cure imaginary problems. Naturally the kid will probably severely hate them once it's all over, but they weren't smart enough to figure that out in the first place and they just insert the kid's actual behavior into their fantasy, much as a sleeping person might dream of winter if the blanket falls off.
As for the programmies themselves, I have insights into their mental state that I seriously don't want to share. Imagine hardcore bondage, domination, and regression fetishists, without the safeguards that prevent ordinary fetishists from acting out their fantasies on the unwilling or the underage.
I don't like getting inside any of their heads- it ain't pretty in there.
-
Yes, I know that and you know that. Others who aren't so well versed in their tactics might not. I don't enjoy getting into their heads either but I think it's important. You don't? Fine, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't post. I don't tell you who to argue with or what about.
-
There are more parents that report good results from programs than are concluding that "programs don't work". For all your bullshit, you still are unable to provide other options. Your crap about local counseling, community resources etc.- gee, why didn't the parents think of that? The bottom line is that a reputable, well-researched program is a last resort for kids who can no longer live in the family and community. Residential placement is used by loving parents who will go to any lengths to help their kids. There are a number of excellent programs with caring and competent staff who have helped thousands of teens get back on the right track. Many of these teens are very successful post-program. Some are not. A lot of teens don't do too well after regular high school.
In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are immature little kids who think you understand parents and think you know what goes on in the programs that are being used by the majority of the parents on the ST site in this, the 21st century. We are not living in the 80s or the 90s. Sorry, folks, we know what we are doing.
(http://http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/images/050401/koolaidman.jpg)
-
There are more parents that report good results from programs than are concluding that "programs don't work".
You're not looking very hard then.
For all your bullshit, you still are unable to provide other options. Your crap about local counseling, community resources etc.- gee, why didn't the parents think of that? The bottom line is that a reputable, well-researched program is a last resort for kids who can no longer live in the family and community. Residential placement is used by loving parents who will go to any lengths to help their kids.
That's what I think is a huge part of the problem. I'll agree that a good many of these parents think they're doing the right thing. They're not. They fall for they hype and scare tactics that are drilled into them. They've been spoofed DARE and all the myths about drugs and drug use in the first place and end up scared shitless that junior is going to end up deadinsaneorinjail if they don't sign 'em up. Most of the time it's simply not true. I know from my own personal experience. My ex husband and his parents were absolutely, without a doubt convinced that my oldest daughter was headed straight for the morgue if I didn't ship her off quick. Granted, she was doing some pretty intense, pretty scary shit. A lot of coke, X, drinking way too much, destroying her sisters room a couple of times.....I've been there. I get it. Sending them off is NOT the solution. When she came back home to me after living at my ex's (that's where the problems really got out of hand) it took about a year of really hard work (on hers and my part) but she made it through. I had to deprogram her from all the bullshit she had been fed by her 12 Stepping dad (who is now BACK in rehab hoping to avoid jail....AA works :roll: ) and set realistic expectations for her. Not some blind 'contracts' or arbitrary rules set up by some formulaic freaks that think they ahve the answer for everyone.
In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are immature little kids who think you understand parents and think you know what goes on in the programs that are being used by the majority of the parents on the ST site in this, the 21st century. We are not living in the 80s or the 90s. Sorry, folks, we know what we are doing.
Fuck you! I'm probably older than you are and I've definitely got much better experience raising kids than you do. You arrogant fuck!
-
[They've been spoofed DARE
::bwahaha:: spoonfed.
-
This[/b] is what I'm talking about. This[/b] kind of attitude. :flame: :flame: :flame:
I believe the statistics are faulty and teenagers under report use on all the studies.
The reserch all involve self-reporting and teens are notorious liars as we all revealed. The good kids lie, we lie as teenagers for all different reasons, especially if you are doing what you are not supposed to be doing
So many teens, parents, teachers, and community leaders empirical unscientific observations seem to lead me to believe that drug and alcohol abuse among teenagers is currently epidemic in most communities, not reduced. I think all the self-reporting studies are off the mark. We have not even looked into or discussed the binge drinking in college age kids.
I think it' great that parents are doing more to help their kids then in previous generations, we are a generation of parents who tend to direct our kids life and making sure they get treatment is part of this parental direction. Some times, it is over parenting and not letting our kids take the bumps in life, however I still have difficulty with this but I am getting better as I try harder to let her be.
I read a great quote the other day from the book "The Blessing of a Skinned Knee" it is a general parenting book about "Overparenting" young children but it really struck home for me!
"We treat our children's lives like we're cruise ship directors who must get them to their destination "adulthood" smoothly, without their feeling even the slightest bump or wave."
mose
-
Fine, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't post. I don't tell you who to argue with or what about.
Cripes, sensitive much?
My point is this: Do you seriously believe that any amount of argument, discussion, or debate will convince this programmie into something resembling logical thinking? THAT's why I say it's a waste of time. It might be fun, even cathartic. But this board is chock-full of 1400+ reply threads, particularly the ones involving DJ and He Who Shall Not Be Named. There's no sense in going into that and it ultimately meant nothing, and that's why I advise that people focus their energies on shutdowns and legal action, instead of hopeless argument. It's advice. I'm not Miller fucking Newton here.
OutlawHorseEater: Excellent, absolutely awesome pic. Worth several thousand words. Kool-Aid Man for Fornits mascot!
-
Yes but I've had several parents over the years either email me or PM me after seeing exchanges like this. Sometimes it goes a long way to just keep pointing out the obvious. The parents that have contacted me have said that they were falling for the doomsday scenarios that the programs lay out for them but when they saw posts like this and recongnized themselves in the ST dickheads they thought again. I don't hold any illusions that I'm going to change the opinions of the posters at ST, they're long gone. I"m hoping to reach the ones that aren't that drunk yet.
-
Deleted
-
Yes but I've had several parents over the years either email me or PM me after seeing exchanges like this.
*ponders waiting for someone else to get the joke inherent in this, then shrugs and spoils it anyway*
Might wanna log in if you're looking for that. :lol:
-
Didn't say I was. I"m done with that. It's exhausting. I said that's why I was posting what I did. Hopefully other parents will do as others have and see themselves and think twice.
Can ya let up now or would you like to continue?
-
I think it' great that parents are doing more to help their kids then in previous generations, we are a generation of parents who tend to direct our kids life and making sure they get treatment is part of this parental direction. Some times, it is over parenting and not letting our kids take the bumps in life, however I still have difficulty with this but I am getting better as I try harder to let her be.[/color]
You weasel...you're a "generation of parents who tend to neglect our kids life (sic)..." You're afraid the kids might end up as fucked up as you are, or you're ashamed that your kids are emulating your own vices. Take responsibility for your kids, get into therapy with them and maybe discover the kids' problems don't come from "negative" friends, T.V., or their music. The issues causing these "bumps" might be closer to you than you think. If you love your kids, raise them. Don't be a fucking cop-out and hand your kid over to a bunch of strangers who are hellbent on breaking his mind and spirit. If that's the kind of parenting you want to do, just have your kid lobotomized...it's cheaper and yields the same result.
You fucking disgust me.
-
(http://http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/979/reddumbassbv6.jpg)
A "lack of alternatives" doesnt mean doing something abusive and ineffective is a good thing.
-
You "fucking disgust me", too. I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent) and no understanding of the lengths parents have gone to before resorting to a residential program. Why the assumption that parents have neglected their kids? Why the assumption that parents are not willing to accept the blame for parenting mistakes which have contibuted to teen problems? Are we too permissive as parents? Absolutely. Is it hard to enforce boundaries and hold the line with single parent households or households with two working parents? Absolutely.
The most loving thing that can be done at a certain point is a good residential program where family and personal issues can be explored by the teen.
If you weren't so angry and ignorant, you might get it instead of being in such a rage because your OWN existence is so pathetic. Interesting how it isn't any of the kids of ST parents who are on here bitching and moaning. It's a generation of losers from days gone by.
-
You "fucking disgust me", too. I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent)
That wasn't Deb, dearie. I'm an actual parent with actual kids. One is 21, the other is 19 (well, in a few days she will be). YOU are the one who is clueless as to what it takes to raise a kid. You say that maybe you were too "permissive", or didn't "enforce the boundaries"....why is it always that? Sure I made mistakes, I wasn't HARD enough on junior so I'll send him away where they can REALLY make him mind me. :roll: :roll: It's got to do with spending time with them. Encouraging their interests, setting realistic expectations for them, finding out what feeds their soul. All you people ever mention is that you weren't tough enough or you let them get away with too much. That's part of this whole fucking attitude towards kids that sucks. Put 'em all in little boxes, pigeonhole them. Soon enough you'll have robotic little yes-children.
The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house. -- Frank Zappa.
-
(I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent)
My last contribution to this thread was over a week ago. Did you happen to read it?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... &start=105 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=16979&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105)
What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?
-
See? Deb's much brighter and posts more eloquently than I do. I shoot from the hip.
Excellent questions she's asked you btw. I wonder if you'll have the guts to address them all.
-
I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set. You sound like a tired old psychology text book. Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family. Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?
-
YOU are the one who is clueless as to what it takes to raise a kid. You say that maybe you were too "permissive", or didn't "enforce the boundaries"....why is it always that? Sure I made mistakes, I wasn't HARD enough on junior so I'll send him away where they can REALLY make him mind me. :roll: :roll: It's got to do with spending time with them. Encouraging their interests, setting realistic expectations for them, finding out what feeds their soul. All you people ever mention is that you weren't tough enough or you let them get away with too much. That's part of this whole fucking attitude towards kids that sucks. Put 'em all in little boxes, pigeonhole them. Soon enough you'll have robotic little yes-children.
I don't get any brighter or more eloquent than that. :wink:
-
I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set. You sound like a tired old psychology text book. Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family. Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?
I give up. You're hopeless. If you really view teenagers like that, there's nothing else anyone can do. I feel sorry for your kids.
I get all too well the kinds of behaviors you're talking about. Like I said, I've raised 2. Both without the benefit of a program even though I was being hounded to put the oldest one in by people just like you. Thank GOD I knew better.
-
***I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references.
Which program? References being? More than the Ed Cons do, which isn't saying much.
***I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set.
If that's really the case, how is it that programs use contact with parents to motivate kids to "work the program"? So your kid's angry and you just give up? If that's the case, you fail the test your kid put you to.
Can you explain in graphic detail how exactly the strangers (21 year old interns?) at the program were able to get your kid to comply with their expectations, when you the parent couldn't? What methods did they employ?
***Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family.
Interesting how the description of program kids changes depending on the argument being put forth. I assume you were describing your child? Now, how would other parents, with kids who are failing math or talking back, feel about their kid being warehoused with dangerous delinquents? I've never seen a program advertise that they take dangerously out of control kids. What threatening and dangerous behaviors was your child exhibiting?
***Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?
That tone and attitude is not conducive to effective communication. Did the program teach you a different approach? Or did they teach your child to bark on que?
-
I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.
-
Excellent questions she's asked you btw. I wonder if you'll have the guts to address them all.
Guess not. Here they are again.
What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?
While you're at it, could you please answer these too?
Which program? References being? More than the Ed Cons do, which isn't saying much.
Can you explain in graphic detail how exactly the strangers (21 year old interns?) at the program were able to get your kid to comply with their expectations, when you the parent couldn't? What methods did they employ?
Interesting how the description of program kids changes depending on the argument being put forth. I assume you were describing your child? Now, how would other parents, with kids who are failing math or talking back, feel about their kid being warehoused with dangerous delinquents? I've never seen a program advertise that they take dangerously out of control kids. What threatening and dangerous behaviors was your child exhibiting?
Thanks.
-
I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.
This dope is a plain ol' polemicist. Just another shifty, shiftless prevaricator unwilling to specify the what's, where's, when's, why's and how's because to do so would show them in a light that they find upsetting. You will get only dogma and inflammatory bullshit from this troll.
-
You "fucking disgust me", too. I'm glad we can agree on something. Mutual "fucking disgust".
You have no understanding of what it means to be a parent (I see Deborah is posting as a guest and claims to be a great parent) and no understanding of the lengths parents have gone to before resorting to a residential program. Why the assumption that parents have neglected their kids? Why the assumption that parents are not willing to accept the blame for parenting mistakes which have contibuted to teen problems? Are we too permissive as parents? Absolutely. Is it hard to enforce boundaries and hold the line with single parent households or households with two working parents? Absolutely.
The most loving thing that can be done at a certain point is a good residential program where family and personal issues can be explored by the teen.
If you weren't so angry and ignorant, you might get it instead of being in such a rage because your OWN existence is so pathetic. Interesting how it isn't any of the kids of ST parents who are on here bitching and moaning. It's a generation of losers from days gone by.
I absolutely did check out every program I considered for my child. I checked credentials and references. I agreed with the methods of communication provided with my child. By the way, these angry teens aren't too interested in communicating with their parents, and certainly aren't interested in having their interests encouraged and having realistic expectations set. You sound like a tired old psychology text book. Do you really not GET the kinds of behaviors that were going on? This isn't Seventh Heaven, sweetie, it's teens who are out of control, dangerous, threatening and totally estranged from the family. Oh, yes, my dear child, let's sit down and discuss your goals and how things went in algebra class today. What planet are you on?
I think Fornits has taught YOU to bark on cue, Deborah. Woof woof.
Old dogs- no new tricks.
Were you this eloquent with your own children?
-
My own child was oh so much brighter than you, so I was able to communicate on a much higher level.
Woof woof, says DysfunctionJunction. Arf Arf says Deborah. BowWowWow says MilkChokingMoron
Hahaha- I'm so funny I even amaze myself!
What part of "I don't give a shit about your studies, your certifications and your rhetoric" don't you understand. My kid is awesome now. You are not. Case closed.
-
I pity you and your family, because there is no faking that kind of anger and hurt. Good luck in your life. :(
-
Please don't bother me with the facts, I have my opinions. :roll:
Gonna get around to answering those questions?
-
Oh, my little friend, no anger and hurt here at all. Just playin' you guys. My family is doing great. Yours?
-
I pity you and your family, because there is no faking that kind of anger and hurt. Good luck in your life. :(
SPOT ON. this is an absolutely MISERABLE person. you can't hide that.
-
Oh, my little friend, no anger and hurt here at all. Just playin' you guys. My family is doing great. Yours?
I keep telling ya. They're doing wonderfully. Both without the benefit of a fucking program and it sounds like mine was just as bad off as yours. Don't flatter yourself hon, you ain't "playing" anybody. Who ran over here when we posted some of your rhetoric over here? Who can't hold up their end of a debate?
Gonna answer those questions? They really are quite relevant to the debate. Unless of course, you can't.
-
Oh, my little friend, no anger and hurt here at all. Just playin' you guys. My family is doing great. Yours?
Predictable. Is the only way to find worth in your life to compare yourself to others whom you perceive as 'less than'? If my family is doing horrible, does that make you somehow feel better about yourself? Hey, because I like you so much, I will tell you the truth. My family never talks to each other, fights over inheritance in court, and pretty much just hate each other's guts. A few members are in prison, and we have a history of dying young. Do you feel good enough yet or shall I continue? :P I don't normally respond to guests who only post here in order to try and one-up whomever they can in an attempt to prove their self worth to themselves. It's inproductive and involves way too much negativity for me, and I had enough of that in my life already.
-
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
And the people in the houses
All go to the university,
And they all get put in boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
And there's doctors and there's lawyers
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
And they all play on the golf-course,
And drink their Martini dry,
And they all have pretty children,
And the children go to school.
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
And they all get put in boxes
And they all come out the same.
And the boys go into business,
And marry, and raise a family,
And they all get put in boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
--Malvina Reynolds
Program Parents: def. n. pl suburbanites made out of ticky-tacky who can't stand that one or more of their offspring won't shut up and get in the box.
Julie
-
::bigsmilebounce::
-
Julie- how absolutely brilliant! (not)
-
Julie, that was absolutely brilliant!!! Spot on target!!
http://www.sho.com/site/weeds/music.do (http://www.sho.com/site/weeds/music.do)
-
Julie- how absolutely brilliant! (not)
Cunt- I think one of your kids is stabbing the other one while whacked on crystal meth.
Why don't you try being a parent for a change instead of trolling all day every day? Maybe your family wouldn't be so incredibly fucked up. The more you write, the more I understand that programs did a better job of raising your kids than you could ever do...
Talk about having no life...This cunt's at the bottom of the barrel.
-
Told you before- no cunt- a dick. You may not know the difference.
Boy, I really piss you off, don't I? Woof Woof.
-
:roll: ::noway::
-
Excellent questions she's asked you btw. I wonder if you'll have the guts to address them all.
Guess not. Here they are again.
What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?
While you're at it, could you please answer these too?
Which program? References being? More than the Ed Cons do, which isn't saying much.
Can you explain in graphic detail how exactly the strangers (21 year old interns?) at the program were able to get your kid to comply with their expectations, when you the parent couldn't? What methods did they employ?
Interesting how the description of program kids changes depending on the argument being put forth. I assume you were describing your child? Now, how would other parents, with kids who are failing math or talking back, feel about their kid being warehoused with dangerous delinquents? I've never seen a program advertise that they take dangerously out of control kids. What threatening and dangerous behaviors was your child exhibiting?
Thanks.
-
"What part of "I don't give a shit about your studies, your certifications and your rhetoric" don't you understand"
I think this was your answer.
What kind of idiot do you think I am? As if any sane person would tell you the name of a specific program on here with the way you attack people and delight in violating privacy.
The therapists are not 21 year old interns. The young support staff at many wilderness programs are extremely effective with the kids, though.
It's a surprise that outsiders can get through to a kid when the parents can't? You are showing your immaturity and ignorance again.
-
Told you before- no cunt- a dick. You may not know the difference.
Boy, I really piss you off, don't I? Woof Woof.
Who do we have here, WeeWillieWinkie? If so, that would make sense because he's a total pussy. This may be where the confusion comes from.
Anyway, this coward won't identify her/his/its self because only carefully crafted anonymity is allowed - this moron wouldn't EVER want any of his/her/its friends finding out what a loser he/she/it is.
So, anon coward, I agree with you. You are a dick, but also a cunt.
-
Who's on first?
-
Have a Fig?
-
Mose s in the bullrushes
-
Have a nice refreshing Gatorade
-
Grandma says "Say No To Kool Aid"
(http://http://www.patheticgeekstories.com/images/beverage-Kool-Aid.jpg)
-
Mose s in the bullrushes
...aborting another baby.
-
"What part of "I don't give a shit about your studies, your certifications and your rhetoric" don't you understand"
I think this was your answer.
What kind of idiot do you think I am? As if any sane person would tell you the name of a specific program on here with the way you attack people and delight in violating privacy.
The therapists are not 21 year old interns. The young support staff at many wilderness programs are extremely effective with the kids, though.
It's a surprise that outsiders can get through to a kid when the parents can't? You are showing your immaturity and ignorance again.
No, the answer is that you run from things you can't back up. You make statements, people ask you to back them up and you run. Typical. Look, if ya can't answer or are afraid to just say so. It's really OK, we understand.
-
I wish someone had aborted the following:
Julie
Deborah
Dysfunction Junction
Robert Bruce
Outlaw
MilkBubblingPenishead
Nihilasstic
Gingerbreadbrains
Guest, Guest, Guest
ThreeSpringsPretendtobeaGook
-
If you hate everyone here so much, what keeps you coming back? Face it, you love us. You can't live without us.
:rofl: :rofl:
-
I love you. Kiss.Kiss.
-
Seriously, why do you stick around if tiy think big bad Fornits is such a crapfest?
btw....very telling that you ignore those extremely valid questions Deb was asking you.
-
Have a Fig?
BINGO. it's the fig. she's only now pretending to be a man, but is still pimping second nature. LOOOOOOOSER.
fuck you, fig, you phony bitch.
-
I stick around to counter some of the crap.
I answered Deb's questions. I don't care. It is not relevant to me or most other parents. I will not reveal program names. I don't wish to engage in debate with Deborah. It's not challenging enough.
-
I stick around to counter some of the crap.
I answered Deb's questions. I don't care. It is not relevant to me or most other parents. I will not reveal program names. I don't wish to engage in debate with Deborah. It's not challenging enough.
awwww... too fwightened to debate, huh?
of course what deb posts doesn't matter to you and other ST parents. you're IGNORANT sadist parental failures.
-
I stick around to counter some of the crap.
But you won't allow others to do the same on your forum. Ok.
I answered Deb's questions.
No you didn't. Not by a long shot. Here they are again.
What did you think about Behrens & Smoot's connections to the industry? Were you under the impression that it was an "independent" study prior to reading my message?
Did you think it was the least bit deceptive that their "study" is presented as an independent, third-party study?
Why were only 9 NATSAP programs in the survey?
All Aspen programs by the way.
And why would they attempt to apply their "findings" about a hand full of Aspen programs to the entire membership of NATSAP programs?
And further deceive the public by implying that NATSAP programs are licensed?
As a program parent did you ever confirm the credentials of the people working with your child? Did you confirm the program was licensed and monitored by the state? Did you check with CPS to see if any reports of abuse had been filed? Did you allow the program to sever contact between you and your child?
I don't care.
That's obvious.
It is not relevant to me or most other parents.
You're coming to THIS forum. It's relevant to parents that read and post here. Of course it's not relevant to YOUR forum. You aren't interested in anything that contradicts your dogma.
I will not reveal program names.
Yeah we know. Wonder why?
I don't wish to engage in debate with Deborah. It's not challenging enough.
You just keep telling yourself that sweetcheeks. :roll:
-
We can be gone from your life in one easy step.
Click the little X in the far top, right corner. Poof, just like magic....
we're gone.
-
The most loving thing that can be done at a certain point is a good residential program where family and personal issues can be explored by the teen.
If you weren't so angry and ignorant, you might get it instead of being in such a rage because your OWN existence is so pathetic. Interesting how it isn't any of the kids of ST parents who are on here bitching and moaning. It's a generation of losers from days gone by.
If you believe putting your kid in a residential program is going to be so damned cleansing for the teen, enter it with him. No program would let you in, of course, because as an adult you would sue the shit out of the facility for the abuses you received. ST parents seem to think the tougher the "tough love", the better the chance Junior will come home and suddenly love and respect them. Dream on, asswipes. ST wouldn't exist if these residential programs were successful. No, the kids from ST families aren't on here bitching. They're broken, gutless shells who paid the price for their parents' "family and personal issues". Too many kids take the blame for Mom and Dad's problems and suffer in these high-priced shitpits.
I'm not a kid, I'm a parent. I don't drink, smoke, or use drugs, so I certainly don't encourage vice by example. My child was thrown into a shithole by a drunken, hate-filled individual and suffered like you can't imagine, fucker. Guess what? The child didn't develop any love or respect for the lush who financed the"behavior modification", only loathing.
You're another parent with no time and no desire to work things out with your child ,but more than enough money to pay some goon bastard to whip the poor kid into obedience like a dog. You're a disease and a parasite. Shut your fucking hole, you whining dick.
-
I wish someone had aborted the following:
Julie
Deborah
Dysfunction Junction
Robert Bruce
Outlaw
MilkBubblingPenishead
Nihilasstic
Gingerbreadbrains
Guest, Guest, Guest
ThreeSpringsPretendtobeaGook
You feel good while you are typing this, at least temporarily. You think these surnames are extremely clever, and cringe in joy at your hateful creativity. It doesn't take the pain away though, does it? At the end of the day, you are still you, and without an outlet for your self hate it starts to focus in on it's real target, yourself. That's why you want me to get angry like everyone else and call you names, but I won't help you support your false paradigm of blaming all your, and the world's problems, on the list of a few posters on some obscure message board you don't have to visit.
-
Outlawhorseshit- what brilliant psychoanalysis! I am SO impressed. Too bad you are way off the mark.
And, Zenless, herein lies the problem. Can you say "projection"? I truly am sorry that your kid's program experience was bad and that you did not agree with the placement. However, my family and other families did not have negative experiences. Our kids are far from gutless, broken shells. They are energetic, bright young people who go on to happy and successful lives. This is the part that you can't stand. That is why I am here. To let parents know that what is reported on this board is a only a small minority viewpoint proferred by angry parents who lost custody of their kids or young adults who attended programs and are still losers in life with no family connections. The families that choose appropriate programs and whose teens either mature during the program just because they are away for a year or two and safe from harm, or who do gain some therapeutic insisght are much more the majority view. These teens are not on message boards- they are in college or starting careers. They have hobbies, relationships and lives.
I really do get how painful this is for you because it isn't the way it turned out for you. But don't blame the industry or the parents of successful teens. Be glad they are out there to support the economy so your sorry ass can collect welfare.
-
That is why I am here.
We all know why you are here, we don't need an explanation. You seem to need to convince yourself you are doing good, this is as common as it is obvious.
Ps: I don't wish you were aborted. I would feel like an asshole making comments like that, but that is just me.
-
Outlawhorseshit- what brilliant psychoanalysis! I am SO impressed. Too bad you are way off the mark.
And, Zenless, herein lies the problem. Can you say "projection"? I truly am sorry that your kid's program experience was bad and that you did not agree with the placement. However, my family and other families did not have negative experiences. Our kids are far from gutless, broken shells. They are energetic, bright young people who go on to happy and successful lives. This is the part that you can't stand. That is why I am here. To let parents know that what is reported on this board is a only a small minority viewpoint proferred by angry parents who lost custody of their kids or young adults who attended programs and are still losers in life with no family connections. The families that choose appropriate programs and whose teens either mature during the program just because they are away for a year or two and safe from harm, or who do gain some therapeutic insisght are much more the majority view. These teens are not on message boards- they are in college or starting careers. They have hobbies, relationships and lives.
I really do get how painful this is for you because it isn't the way it turned out for you. But don't blame the industry or the parents of successful teens. Be glad they are out there to support the economy so your sorry ass can collect welfare.
But you refuse to answer any questions you 'don't feel like'. You refuse to name the 'appropriate programs' you speak of. What the fuck are you contributing to the conversation? Anecdotal stories? Anonymously? (Yes I realize I'm anon but I cite facts to back up what I say, I answer questions asked of me). You say you're trying to show parents reading here the other side of the story. When's that gonna start happenin'?
-
What's your take on this?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=18573 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=18573)
-
Much of it is good parenting advice. It just doesn't always work.
-
Wow, I never imagined a programmed parent could try to be even nastier than Luke. This is one for the record books.
PARENTS! THIS PERSON WANTS CONTROL OF YOUR KID!
-
Much of it is good parenting advice. It just doesn't always work.
That's it? Really? Let me guess. You weren't on the debating team in high school. Christ, do you even comprehend how completely moronic you sound? Good job getting the ST point of view across over here. I'm sure they're thrilled with the results. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad. ::noway::
-
No wonder you guys have a closed forum.
You can't handle the truth!!
(http://http://www.cracked.com/jp/quotestruth.jpg)
-
Outlawhorseshit- what brilliant psychoanalysis! I am SO impressed. Too bad you are way off the mark.
And, Zenless, herein lies the problem. Can you say "projection"? I truly am sorry that your kid's program experience was bad and that you did not agree with the placement. However, my family and other families did not have negative experiences. Our kids are far from gutless, broken shells. They are energetic, bright young people who go on to happy and successful lives. This is the part that you can't stand. That is why I am here. To let parents know that what is reported on this board is a only a small minority viewpoint proferred by angry parents who lost custody of their kids or young adults who attended programs and are still losers in life with no family connections. The families that choose appropriate programs and whose teens either mature during the program just because
or who do gain some therapeutic insisght are much more the majority view. These teens are not on message boards- they are in college or starting careers. They have hobbies, relationships and lives.
I really do get how painful this is for you because it isn't the way it turned out for you. But don't blame the industry or the parents of successful teens. Be glad they are out there to support the economy so your sorry ass can collect welfare.
What I don't understand, you repugnant gruntskid, is why these bright, shiny young conservative Republicans ended up in a facility anyway. Obviously you fucked up and had to pay someone to fix what you couldn't be bothered with.
"they are away for a year or two and safe from harm," Being away from the likes of your demented monkey-ass has to be a step in the right direction.
"...they are in college or starting careers," Oh, yeah, the high school diploma from a residential treatment center/boot camp is a feather in the cap of your young go-getter. You're blowing smoke up your own ass. I don't care how much you paid the gilded shithouse that mind-fucked your kid into being a member of the Bush-league, a shithouse is just a shithouse. At some point in your Stepford-kid's ass-licking career, a colleague is going to find out about the treatment facility and make disparaging remarks about his stay in a juvenile "casa del wackos", and he'll never get the key to the executive bathroom. Sorry to fuck your hopes, but a career in politics won't be an option for your little GOP'er. The views you and your ilk have of these behavior modification mills seems rather myopic. People aren't going to assume your "lil' W" is all better because a boot camp fucked with his near-empty brain pan and made it correct. They'll always wonder if he's going to go full Columbine. It's unfair, but that's the way your neighbors and peers will react, because I'm sure you're surrounded by shitheads as mentally constipated as yourself.
"...They have hobbies, relationships and lives." Wow! No kid has any of those things until they're "modified", huh? Look, just because your kid got home and "came out" about his poultry fetish...
...I really do get how painful this is for you because it isn't the way it turned out for you. What kind of speculation is that? My kid is doing just fine, and it's frustrating the shit out of the program pricks who can't do the "process" that failures like you pay for. Sorry, my kid didn't have a problem except a genetic connection to an asshole much like yourself. What isn't broke won't allow itself to be worked on by unqualified mental midgets like these facilities hire. It seems the kids who DO ingratiate themselves to the boot camp staff are nasty, lying little snitches who would sell out anybody(even their parents) for a scratch behind the ears from one of the dimwit overseers.
... But don't blame the industry or the parents of successful teens. Be glad they are out there to support the economy so your sorry ass can collect welfare. Calling adolescent mental health care an "industry" shows what a bottomfeeding sack of shit you are. Enjoy your teen torture farms while you can, jizz, because they'll dry up and disappear just like your balls when Dubya and his crew of fools get ousted. Now go inflate your date for the evening.
-
Zen- your ignorance is astounding. Boy-your ex really got you good, didn't he. Good thing he got the kid away from you!
You are boring me. Yawn. Go back in your crate like a good doggie.
-
Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of tickytacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.
And the people in the houses all went to the university
Where they were put in boxes and they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and there's lawyers, and business executives
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.
And they all play on the golf course and drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children and the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp and then to the university
Where they are put in boxes and they come out all the same.
And the boys go into business and marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.
Nod to Julie for finding this.
-
Zen- your ignorance is astounding. Boy-your ex really got you good, didn't he. Good thing he got the kid away from you!
You are boring me. Yawn. Go back in your crate like a good doggie.
You are one sick fuck. A sadistic drunk throws his stepdaughter in a torture chamber and all you can think about is how the ex "got" the biological father. Typical self-centered program parent -- it's all about you ain't it? Nevermind the child in the shitpit -- just a piece of meat to you right?
-
Zen- your ignorance is astounding. Boy-your ex really got you good, didn't he. Good thing he got the kid away from you!
You are boring me. Yawn. Go back in your crate like a good doggie.
I don't know how you redneck hilljacks procreate, but I've never had sex with another guy and I wouldn't expect children from that kind of congress. Keep it on the farm, hillbilly boy. I'll bet your genetic pool is stagnant, which would explain your astounding ignorance.
-
mmmm, I see lots of pointless namecalling and actual useful debate, stop feeding the trolls Zen, this kind of reaction is precisely what they are looking for
-
I suspect the point might have been to give back some of what you all dish out so constantly. Someone actually treated you with the same disdain and lack of accurate information that you throw at all the parents. I think it was actually a good exercise in seeing how it can go both ways. While it is perfectly acceptable on this forum for you to attack parents and use crude language and insults, it isn't so much fun when it comes right back at you, is it?
You generalize about program parents and kids, you make incorrect and insulting remarks about their futures and family dynamics, but in reality you know very little about each family situation OR the specific programs. You certainly don't know how the kids (now young adults, in many cases) view the situation since they don't waste their time letting you know. You hear from a small sample with some sort of agenda. NO parent would want their child or anyone else to experience abuse in a program or be the victim of the types of things you seem to think occur every day in all programs. NO parent wants to resort to a residential placement and have their child go through this. NO FAMILY wants to go through this. You promote this view of parents as planning this from birth because they are not interested in parenting. Sometimes the best efforts at parenting still lead to a teen with problems that can't be resolved while staying with the family. Sometimes one kid in a family has these issues and the others do just fine.
I assure you that your views are incorrect. Nothing will change your mind because you have too much emotionally invested in your position. Zen, I am sorry if your child suffered due to a poor choice by a custodial parent. It must be heart-breaking. Please don't project this on every other parent who chooses to send a teen to an emotional growth program. There truly are good programs with excellent staff. No, I won't discuss them here. We have all seen how well that works. There is no room for debate here. I don't know why you seem to think there is. Read almost any thread where there has been an attempt at sharing personal experiences and viewpoints and see where it goes.
With that, I will leave you to your anger. Moving on.
-
Moving on.
Boy, this sounds good, but we all know you can't "move on" from anything. You'll be here, day in and day out, every morning, afternoon and night trying to get your rocks off by belittling others. It's what you do. It's your life. It's sad, but it is what it is, huh?
Do I wish you'd go somewhere else to project your shortcomings on others? Yes, I do. I also know full well that it won't happen and that you will be right here doing the same things over and over and over and...you get the point. It's a sickness with you - an awful compulsion that you simply don't have the cognitive tools to avoid.
See ya in a few minutes. :roll:
-
.
I assure you that your views are incorrect. Nothing will change your mind because you have too much emotionally invested in your position. Zen, I am sorry if your child suffered due to a poor choice by a custodial parent. It must be heart-breaking. Please don't project this on every other parent who chooses to send a teen to an emotional growth program. There truly are good programs with excellent staff. No, I won't discuss them here. We have all seen how well that works. There is no room for debate here. I don't know why you seem to think there is. Read almost any thread where there has been an attempt at sharing personal experiences and viewpoints and see where it goes.
With that, I will leave you to your anger. Moving on.
Thanks. I've been losing sleep over the validity of my views. Please don't pretend to have any knowledge of my emotional investment or my anger. You don't have a clue. I'm afraid you've also wandered onto the wrong forum. An "emotional growth program", what is this wonderous thing? I would love to hear all about it, Now's your chance to convert this angry, misinformed bastard. What drug do they inject to cause the emotional growth? Can I see my girl any time I want to? I guess they don't need mechanical restraints in this teen wonderland. So go ahead and share, please.
-
Skipping the bullshit, we reach more bullshit.
There truly are good programs with excellent staff. No, I won't discuss them here. We have all seen how well that works.
HAHAHAHA...
This roughly translates to "I've lost, and lost badly, but I still insist on keeping this up".
Why? Because there isn't a single place you can name that isn't going to get multiple ISAC watchlist links, full of serious allegations, or be easily linked to some other shithole which has them. Think about that. You can't name a single "good" place, because it'll get completely shot down in a matter of hours.
Why? 'Cuz there aren't any. At least not places that provide the kind of "treatment" you want.
Of course, since the "treatment" you want is abuse, that's to be expected.
Why don't you just admit that you're doing it (and posting here) for your own kicks, and cut the shit? Would make this a lot more fun.
-
I suspect the point might have been to give back some of what you all dish out so constantly. Someone actually treated you with the same disdain and lack of accurate information that you throw at all the parents. I think it was actually a good exercise in seeing how it can go both ways. While it is perfectly acceptable on this forum for you to attack parents and use crude language and insults, it isn't so much fun when it comes right back at you, is it?
You generalize about program parents and kids, you make incorrect and insulting remarks about their futures and family dynamics, but in reality you know very little about each family situation OR the specific programs. You certainly don't know how the kids (now young adults, in many cases) view the situation since they don't waste their time letting you know. You hear from a small sample with some sort of agenda. NO parent would want their child or anyone else to experience abuse in a program or be the victim of the types of things you seem to think occur every day in all programs. NO parent wants to resort to a residential placement and have their child go through this. NO FAMILY wants to go through this. You promote this view of parents as planning this from birth because they are not interested in parenting. Sometimes the best efforts at parenting still lead to a teen with problems that can't be resolved while staying with the family. Sometimes one kid in a family has these issues and the others do just fine.
I assure you that your views are incorrect. Nothing will change your mind because you have too much emotionally invested in your position. Zen, I am sorry if your child suffered due to a poor choice by a custodial parent. It must be heart-breaking. Please don't project this on every other parent who chooses to send a teen to an emotional growth program. There truly are good programs with excellent staff. No, I won't discuss them here. We have all seen how well that works. There is no room for debate here. I don't know why you seem to think there is. Read almost any thread where there has been an attempt at sharing personal experiences and viewpoints and see where it goes.
With that, I will leave you to your anger. Moving on.
I read : bla bla bla, you guys aren't giving me the negative attention I want anymore, I'm taking my toys and going home. Waaaaaa!
-
Well damn, I wanted to hear about this fantastic emotional growth program, where all the counselors look like the Keebler elf and sing Happy Songs to make those stunted emotions grow. He really had me going with the flowery phrasing. "Emotional growth program" sounds warm and fuzzy, while "behavior modification" sounds nasty, like something bad kids with no money get because they're poor.
I guess he didn't see the warning under troubled teen industry:
This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
This troll's lair at strugglingteens can't entertain a dissenting opinion, even if it's presented in a diplomatic fashion. You can get banned for merely implying a program might be troubled. We're not close-minded, we'll hear a programee out. This ain't strugglingteens, though. We'll practice the same kind of confrontational approach program counselors use on kids like the troll's offspring. If this were Mount Fornits or Wayward Bay, I'd break our troll's ass down like a shotgun and demote him down to Level one again for his blubbering and snivelling comments. I would only be doing it for his emotional growth, though. That's tough love, kids.
-
Well damn, I wanted to hear about this fantastic emotional growth program, where all the counselors look like the Keebler elf and sing Happy Songs to make those stunted emotions grow. He really had me going with the flowery phrasing. "Emotional growth program" sounds warm and fuzzy, while "behavior modification" sounds nasty, like something bad kids with no money get because they're poor.
I guess he didn't see the warning under troubled teen industry:
This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
This troll's lair at strugglingteens can't entertain a dissenting opinion, even if it's presented in a diplomatic fashion. You can get banned for merely implying a program might be troubled. We're not close-minded, we'll hear a programee out. This ain't strugglingteens, though. We'll practice the same kind of confrontational approach program counselors use on kids like the troll's offspring. If this were Mount Fornits or Wayward Bay, I'd break our troll's ass down like a shotgun and demote him down to Level one again for his blubbering and snivelling comments. I would only be doing it for his emotional growth, though. That's tough love, kids.
:tup: :tup: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
-
You all are just JEALOUS- about my family being perfect. The program perfected my kid in ways that you just DON'T GET. Since you all are angry and ignorant you can't see the good that these programs do- like perfecting my child.
Go ahead and rip me apart- it all comes from your own pitiful lives and your jealousy of me and my perfected child.
-
8/10
A few different word choices and you'd have it down pat.
-
You all are just JEALOUS- about my family being perfect. The program perfected my kid in ways that you just DON'T GET. Since you all are angry and ignorant you can't see the good that these programs do- like perfecting my child.
Go ahead and rip me apart- it all comes from your own pitiful lives and your jealousy of me and my perfected child.
Don't know you, and I'm never jealous of zealots who feel the need to modify kids into their twisted Rockwell ideal of a perfect child. You seem to be the one getting angry, and I can only assume you're a masochist who gets off on people ripping you new orifices. The idea of a "perfected child" sounds too Adolph-ish for me. How malformed was this kid before Keebler threw the fertilizer on and grew those perfect emotions?
You're becoming tiresome, my Nazi troll. If you're not going to tell me where the Little People sprinkle Magic Dust on kids that perfects them, I don't know why you're here. If you know of a therapeutic and non-abusive facility, why don't you share this information and perhaps help some kids who aren't being "perfected"?
-
What the hell is wrong with these people? Shipping 'em off once isn't enough? It's not working for our family. :roll:
http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... 1;t=000763 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000763)
hb
Member
Member # 4818
Does anybody know anything about transition programs (sort of a 13th year) when a 17 year old graduates high school but is not emotionally ready for college?
Living at home and commuting to junior college isn't working out for our family. Any websites or info would be appreciated (I tried googling already). Thanks. Helene
-
Zen... You ask "If you know of a therapeutic and non-abusive facility, why don't you share this information and perhaps help some kids". Yet, you know full well that this is hardly a forum where such help would be sought, much less accepted. The reason might well be disclosed by "We'll practice the same kind of confrontational approach program counselors use on kids." You may think that fair and accurate, yet it is neither because while some programs and counselors are highly confrontational, even to the point of being abusive, others are actually rather gentle, if unyielding on matters of truth, when they confront a student in theri care who has demonstrably lied(eg).
Surely you wouldn't condone lying, would you? How would you propose adddressing such behavior without confronting the liar?
-
But there are people here who have been civil and not gone after you with both barrels. Ignore those that aren't and engage in discussion with those that are. Why is this such a difficult thing for you?
Let's talk about the gentle programs you speak of. If they really are then they'll be able to stand up to the scrutiny, right?
-
Am I missing something here? Curious Outsider asked some questions. Why the sarcasm in response?
curious outsider
Junior Member
Member # 5222
I am glad your daughters programme helped the whole family. What specifically did you take away from the intensive weekends?
What is inaccurate about that statement?
Is it that you feel that kids take drugs to the level of excess that they need to be removed from their family for no reason at all, or that a parents divorce does not have an effect on a kid? Or that when a youngster has "entitlement" issues the adults in their life have not contributed to this?
Given that parents have often described this as an extremely painful decision for them to make then it is reasonable to ask what it is that they will get out of it in terms their relationship to their kid. I would want to know what a programme can offer the wider family in terms of being able to get a child on track.
[ October 12, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: curious outsider ] Posts: 6 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 124.177.241.118 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
A program works on the communication between the teen and the parents/siblings. During family visits there is structured time to address issues and share viewpoints in a safe manner with the help of a therapist. When teens are sent to a program, usually communication has totally broken down, the teen hates the parents will not observe even basic household rules. It is seldom as simple as "kids take drugs to th elevel of excess that they need to be removed from their family for now reason at all...." as you say. It is more often the teen is using drugs or engaging in behavior such as not attending school, breaking the law, stealing, being violent to siblings, stealing from the family and friends' parents in order to support the drug habit, maybe selling drugs.... The parents can not trust the teen to be in the house alone, car keys have to be hidden, purses have to be hidden, younger siblings are terrified and traumatized by the family dynamics, etc. Yes, in many cases the parents have contributed to entitlement issues. This is something the parents work on through therapy while the teen is away- both with the school therapists and in private therapy. Just because the parents made parenting mistakes does not change the fact that the teen can not remain in the household. Do you suggest that the parents leave and go to a program and leave the teen in charge?
-
[ October 12, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: curious outsider ] Posts: 6 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 124.177.241.118 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
A program works on the communication between the teen and the parents/siblings. During family visits there is structured time to address issues and share viewpoints in a safe manner with the help of a therapist. When teens are sent to a program, usually communication has totally broken down, the teen hates the parents will not observe even basic household rules. It is seldom as simple as "kids take drugs to th elevel of excess that they need to be removed from their family for now reason at all...." as you say. It is more often the teen is using drugs or engaging in behavior such as not attending school, breaking the law, stealing, being violent to siblings, stealing from the family and friends' parents in order to support the drug habit, maybe selling drugs.... The parents can not trust the teen to be in the house alone, car keys have to be hidden, purses have to be hidden, younger siblings are terrified and traumatized by the family dynamics, etc. Yes, in many cases the parents have contributed to entitlement issues. This is something the parents work on through therapy while the teen is away- both with the school therapists and in private therapy. Just because the parents made parenting mistakes does not change the fact that the teen can not remain in the household. Do you suggest that the parents leave and go to a program and leave the teen in charge?
Once again, the "last resort" arguement. When I peruse the websites of programs, I have yet to find the program that advertises they are strictly a last resort for a teen that poses an immediate danger to themselves or others.
On the contrary, I find the opposite. These programs advertise they can assist with everything from ADHD to low self esteem, poor grades, and lack of motivation. They also specifically state they cannot handle violent or uncontrollable teens.
I sincerely doubt the majority of the teens in these programs fit this poster's description and that most teens that are being incarcerated have committed far lesser offenses.
The "last resort" argument is the argument last resorted to when all else fails to justify why anyone should place a child incommunicado with the outside world.
-
Plus that fuck-stick Willie sets up a stawman yet again. This fucking nitwit wouldn't know a debate if it hit him in the head. He's like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest and as absolutely stupid as they come.
"So you're suggesting we leave the teen home and send the parents away?" Willie, you're a fucking half-wit retard setting up strawmen to knock down because your tiny little brain can't even keep up with a "troubled teen" in a level debate. No wonder you had to send your kid away - they're smarter than you, so to avoid the inevitable battle-of-wits your kid was likely to bring on, you shipped them off. Nice, Willie, you pea-brained little faggot.
-
The "last resort for juvenile delinquents" is frequently used by parents and programs to justify placement and the outrageous fees programs charge for warehousing. Hey, they're providing an option for keeping the kid out of JJ. The description depends on which argument is being made.
As for the type of kids they take. Many, like HLA (NATSAPs Flagship program), claim not to take seriously distressed kids and no court ordered kids. Not the case. So, Willie's description does apply to some.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17946 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17946)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ht=ordered (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=9253&highlight=ordered)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ole#212520 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=212520&highlight=poole#212520)
Programs aren't going to advertise this because it will scare away parents who warehouse their kids for bad grades and talking back.
-
I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research. The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda. The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up. Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here. I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.
-
I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research. The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda. The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up. Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here. I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.
-
Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up. Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
Damn straight! Those little bastards were just asking for it. By their actions, they practically begged to be escorted by thugs to some shitpit where they could be restrained or rot in isolation for the rest of their teen years. Those little fuckers should never have been born, right?
Nothing complicated about it at all. If you tried abuse and neglect at home and that didn't do the job, it's time to spend $5,000 to over $10,000/month to let someone else kick junior's sorry little ass! At least you have the peace of mind of knowing you won't be arrested for child abuse.
-
I just found this forum .
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Anyone here born yesterday???
-
I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research. The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda. The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up. Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here. I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.
You found "nothing credible"? That statement, in and of itself, is not credible. This site is absolutley chock-full of links to newspaper articles, studies, websites and other information. If you find those reputable, mainstream sources to be "not credible," then it is you who has an agenda. These links are bias-neutral, but I guess you're not.
As for parents not "warehousing children," well, that's absolutely false. I worked at a few of these programs and I have heard on dozens of occasions "I just wanted him/her out, but I can't kick him/her into the street because until he/she's 18, I'm liable for his/her behavior."
This is the unfortunate reality of a large segment of the populations of these places. If you haven't seen this, you've never been exposed to the industry, or as you put it, you have no "grip on reality."
-
goldenguru
Member
Member # 4289
Sorry hb~
I know how difficult it is to "let them go" and to watch them walk out that door. Hopefully your son will quickly realize that life at home isn't so bad. You may find that this time 'on his own' proves more productive than harmful. That has been our experience.
I was talking to my daughter about this thread ... read her my response. She made such an insightful comment that I would like to share it with you. She reminded me that when we pulled her out of bed almost two and a half years ago and flew her across the country - that it was OUR decision to make her stop using, cutting, running away, etc. That WE desired for her to "get better". But, when she came home (16 months later ... drug free, etc.) she subconsciously decided to "pick up where she left off". Yes she left home, used drugs, cut, etc. It was at THAT time that she decided for HERSELF that SHE no longer wanted to live that way. In psychobabble terms she had made an internal choice regarding her behaviors (rather than having externals forced upon her). That made so much sense to me. She owned her own decisions and her own recovery. She owned her own life. It was a epiphany moment for me and I understood at a much deeper level why she made some of the post program choices that she made.
I hope that helps. Your son has the tools. He knows how the game is played. He now has to decide on his own what life is going to look like.
Hang in there. Jane is right. You'll be OK.
--------------------
Kelly
-
I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research. The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda. The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up. Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here. I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.
Funny, instead of face the facts they bring up and debunk them (like these 'raging' people do with the assertions made by the other side...) you simply attack them and resort to schoolyard name-calling and ad-hominem attacks by any other name, and imply they're insane or 'raging'.
But the thing is, even if they are what you call them, the facts are the facts, be they spoke by a madman, a genius, a saint, or an atheist... so why not try to debunk the facts instead of playing shoot the messenger?
-
I refuse to "grip" your reality.
A kid's misbehavior (manifestation of distress) is an indicator that something is amiss in their lives. That's not "acting".
Isolating them from the world is not a solution.
The only "acting" being done is actually learned in the program, in order to escape the horrors of living in a controlled bubble 24/7, where your every thought and action is analyzed and consequenced.
Then they make their reentry to the "real world" where they will learn (or not) to deal with the issues underlying the behaviors that got them warehoused to begin with.
What behaviors was your child exhibiting that resulted in him/her being warehoused?
-
Funny, instead of face the facts they bring up and debunk them (like these 'raging' people do with the assertions made by the other side...) you simply attack them and resort to schoolyard name-calling and ad-hominem attacks by any other name, and imply they're insane or 'raging'.
But the thing is, even if they are what you call them, the facts are the facts, be they spoke by a madman, a genius, a saint, or an atheist... so why not try to debunk the facts instead of playing shoot the messenger?
Cuz they know they can't. Sad really, but very telling.
-
Funny, instead of face the facts they bring up and debunk them (like these 'raging' people do with the assertions made by the other side...) you simply attack them and resort to schoolyard name-calling and ad-hominem attacks by any other name, and imply they're insane or 'raging'.
But the thing is, even if they are what you call them, the facts are the facts, be they spoke by a madman, a genius, a saint, or an atheist... so why not try to debunk the facts instead of playing shoot the messenger?
Cuz they know they can't. Sad really, but very telling.
It just occured to me... having the "incrowd" on fornits on Dennis Miller would make for one hell of an amusing episode :D
-
Bill Maher. :D :smokin:
-
Just give me a few mins with the both of them and you'll have a triumverate of awesome.
Oh and TSW can come when hes done banging Korean women and lady-boys. :rofl:
-
I'd pay thousands to see DJ or Aardvark on the Bill O'Reilly Show.
-
Hello fellow parents and authoritarians!
Through research with our own child and other children we have developed the perfect halloween costume for your little problem child. Shut their potty mouth with the modern day dunce cap, and make them walk around the neighborhood in this costume and let everyone see what a potty mouth they are -- it really works.
(http://http://www.anytimecostumes.com/Merchant2/graphics/ccimages/02189163.jpg)
http://www.anytimecostumes.com/costumes ... gory_Code= (http://www.anytimecostumes.com/costumes/02189163.html?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=02189163&Category_Code=)
-
Farker. :D
-
Arguing with the ST crew reminds me of mixing it up with the moral majority. Present them with anything that goes against their beliefs and they stick their fingers in their ears and sing "what a friend we have in Jesus," or shake their heads with that smug holier than thou attitude Falwell does so well.
I wouldn't mind hearing more about regulation of facilities, although I think they need to be stamped out altogether in their current form. I can't buy the "So a few kids die, mine was saved from death or prison," number. Over a hundred dead kids (that we know of) implies something is seriously wrong with behavior modification programs.
Perhaps it's the all-inclusive nature of these facilities, although they would deny it. Are these places the "last resort" or a gentle nudge for the emotionally troubled? When you throw them all together, what happens?
Some programs require patients to initiate three "confrontations" a day to move up to the next level. A confrontation means denouncing a peer for an infraction of the rules. If the kids are supposed to be looking inward, why are they required to confront others? I imagine a fair amount of inventing and lying goes on just to meet the quota. It seems wrong to demand the kids to be perfidious. Also, "confrontation" by lying is something that comes easily to some of these kids. They'll single out a peer for persecution.
-
Also, whenever I see "BM" used by a programee, I can't help but think of it as a euphemism for "shit". I have noticed I tend to want to excoriate these programees and EdCons, but when they say this isn't the forum for recognizing non-abusive, forward-thinking facilities, I think it's because they're not aware of any or don't represent any. Okay, I've been accused of being to "emotionally involved" and "angry" to engage in discussion of better programs. How about I offer up my knowledge of one, and I'm not afraid to name it. Sheppard Pratt in MD is a fine facility that I would recommend to anyone. It is more expensive than most, but the kids' stays are shorter. Sheppard Pratt would be the model program to base new facilities on after we wipe the slate clean of the brutal and sometimes lethal programs out there now. A NATSAP seal on a website should be a sign to a parent to look elsewhere.
-
Your son sounds so willing but might need a better place then home to finish growing up, a safe place he can learn to be a man.
What the fuck. That Be a Man thing is useless. That is their excuess for, "I can't find anything wrong with my kid so I will ship him off to God knows where so I can get rid of him" He who is sinless can judge, whoever else, Fuck off...
My 2 Cents,
FLCLcowdude
-
Arguing with the ST crew reminds me of mixing it up with the moral majority. Present them with anything that goes against their beliefs and they stick their fingers in their ears and sing "what a friend we have in Jesus," or shake their heads with that smug holier than thou attitude Falwell does so well.
I wouldn't mind hearing more about regulation of facilities, although I think they need to be stamped out altogether in their current form. I can't buy the "So a few kids die, mine was saved from death or prison," number. Over a hundred dead kids (that we know of) implies something is seriously wrong with behavior modification programs.
Perhaps it's the all-inclusive nature of these facilities, although they would deny it. Are these places the "last resort" or a gentle nudge for the emotionally troubled? When you throw them all together, what happens?
Some programs require patients to initiate three "confrontations" a day to move up to the next level. A confrontation means denouncing a peer for an infraction of the rules. If the kids are supposed to be looking inward, why are they required to confront others? I imagine a fair amount of inventing and lying goes on just to meet the quota. It seems wrong to demand the kids to be perfidious. Also, "confrontation" by lying is something that comes easily to some of these kids. They'll single out a peer for persecution.
That may as well read arguing with the fornits crew reminds me of mixing it up with the moral majority. Present them with anything that goes against their beliefs and they stick their fingers in their ears and sing "what a friend we have in Jesus," or shake their heads with that smug holier than thou attitude Falwell does so well.
As for the rest of the pronouncement, there are any number of places that do not require any "confrontations", and many who will not just accept any check from any willing parent. Yeah, some rotten places exist. There are some lousy diners, too. Even tainted spinach. So when do you quit eating veggies?
-
At least Fornits is open and you are welcome to post here without the risk of being banned for voicing criticism of the programs so many people are being referred to on StrugglingTeens. I've seen parents referred to the "rotten places" you claim exist. The posters on Fornits are not naive and worried parents looking for a "fix" for their troubled teen, they are people who have suffered as patients or parents of kids in what I consider to be more than "rotten" facilities. The premise of Fornits is to discuss the worst programs in the troubled teen industry, and our experiences with them.
This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
Your viewpoints are welcome, why not discuss any programs you find less "rotten"?
"Yeah, some rotten places exist." You admit it, and those are the ones we are addressing, and we're calling them out by name. As far as lousy diners go, I read reviews and learn which ones to avoid. We try to offer our experiences so other parents will at least look more carefully into a program, instead of relying on the advice of EdCons and slick, misleading websites.
I guess you didn't read my other post, or chose to ignore it. I wrote
"How about I offer up my knowledge of one(truly therapeutic RTC), and I'm not afraid to name it. Sheppard Pratt in MD is a fine facility that I would recommend to anyone. It is more expensive than most, but the kids' stays are shorter," That doesn't sound like someone close-minded to the idea of truly therapeutic facilities, does it? I even named it.
Would StrugglingTeens consider addressing the facilities you know to be "rotten"? You admit they exist, but would you openly name them on StrugglingTeens? With over 100 kids dead, I think you should feel obliged to encourage parents looking for help to avoid the programs you know to be abusive and rotten.
-
They cant list any good program becuase the kind of programs they like arent the 'good ones'.
The kinds they like are the kinds that enable controlfreak assholes and munchausen by proxy assholes to have their way, and make money with ponzi schemes like the sort the average Ed-Con is in on.
Yeah, good TREATMENT exists, but a "program" as you and me refer to is jsut a easy way of saying "a fucked up shady place that doesnt give any therapy or treatment, its just a BITE model thought reform/re-education/brainwashing hellhole that uses fucked up stepcraft-synanon nonsense and other debunked or just outright abusive techniques to gain submission and control over the children in them".
Damn, what a mouthfull?
But yeah. There is good treatment, residential and otherwise. There are no good "programs" because by definition, they're not. So, I'd say they cant list a "good program" becuase they dont want to face scrutiny, or theyre just saying one MUST exist, but cant name one.
Also, Id like to be the first to call the ensuing semantic debate... thats pretty inevitable IMHO.
-
You can't copy anything from the ST forums anymore. :rofl: :roll:
-
ORLY?
Terry_MO
Junior Member
Member # 5232
Icon 1 posted October 02, 2006 03:23 AM Profile for Terry_MO Email Terry_MO Edit/Delete Post When a xxxx escort drugged and raped a girl, Denise Woodberry was the Boundary County Prosecuting Attorney. Though the rapist, Armstrong, was clearly guilty. He was not prosecuted by Woodberry, why?
I read about this case it was proven that he did the crime why no prosicution?
exhausted
Member
Member # 5259
Icon 1 posted October 02, 2006 04:04 AM Profile for exhausted Email exhausted Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post I do know it is extremely difficult to prove rape, often the victim showers or delays seeking medical help - often the assailant will admit to intercourse but argues she (or he) consented, it's up to the girl to prove otherwise, when two people are having sex, there's rarely anyone else around, so it's her word against his
This is why so many rapes go unreprted, the system sucks big time and very little sympathy is given to the victim, that works both ways, here in the UK a man has just served 5 years for a rape he did not commit, the young lady in question is a serial 'rape crier' it's a real shame there are ppl like her about because she has ruined this mans life - it doesn't matter if he gets an honourable pardon, the seed of doubt has been sewn and others will always be apprehensive of him 'just in case'
You will never get the full details of what happened to this girl, or what happened during the case to cause this outcome...it's sad, but unfortunately not uncommon
It makes you angry inside I know.....
--------------------
Help help help help help ......
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
Icon 1 posted October 02, 2006 04:54 AM Profile for WillieNelson Email WillieNelson Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Without having all the evidence, it is hard to tell if someone is clearly guilty, as you state. Perhaps he was, but perhaps the prosecuting attorney had information that was not revealed in the press or reports.
Lon
Administrator
Member # 53
Icon 1 posted October 02, 2006 08:58 AM Profile for Lon Author's Homepage Email Lon Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Terry_MO:
You seem to consistently bring up these old half-truths. In this case the facts are:
1. The "girl" in question was middle age, about Armstrong's age, and working as an escort with Armstrong.
2. They had been living together for some time.
3. She filed a civil case against Armstrong.
4. The local police investigated to see if any crime had been committed.
5. The "girl" refused to cooperate with the police so they could not make a recommendation to the prosecutor Denise Woodbury.
6. A prosecutor can only take action if there is an investigation and recommendation by the police.
7. It was largely a contract dispute, with rape and drugging issues thrown in.
8. The jury came out in favor of the "girl".
9. The attorney for her never contacted the Boundary County prosecutor nor made any move to make this a criminal issue.
10. The attorney for her later was convicted of a felony, indicating his ethics might have been challenged.
I am closing this thread off from further discussion.
Lon
Board Owner
ROFLROFLROFL WUT CTRL + C?!??!?! ROFL ROFL ROFL IDIOTS.
OMG RIGHT CLICK JAVA SCRIPT "function disabled" LOL!!!
You cant "disable the function" of the CLIENT WEB BROWSER... from their forum. Its not like its a FORUM FUNCTION its built into the BROWSER. You can ctrl+c or do the unthinkable... turn off javascript. rofl.
Also, LOL.
-
::bwahaha2::
Galen
Member 5327
Our first visit to our son at TBS is coming up in November. My husband will be going alone as we have a 14 yr old at home who is busy with the applications process for private high school next year. We also think that our ds would try to wear me down and manipulate me. I?m the weakest link in the family (we will all be visiting ds in December)
Our son has also been gone from home since July?six weeks at wc and now over a month at TBS. Our son will talk to us for our weekly phone calls, but he hasn?t had a pleasant thing to say. He is still so angry, and all he does is complain. He is VERY negative. We haven?t seen any kind of progress or improvement of any kind yet. He hasn?t accepted his placement and is still in denial about any problems or issues he might have.
I know we are in the early stages but I sometimes wonder if ds will come around and/or get anything at all out of his program at TBS.
BTW, part of the reason he is at TBS in the first place is because of his highly negative attitude towards life, extreme irritability and unwillingness to accept responsibility for his own poor choices.
He also seemed far more negative than the other kids when he graduated wc. He could ?talk the talk? when the therapists and counselors were around but he clearly never bought into the program and was just doing what he had to do to get out. We had a very difficult overnight solo with him, filled with his constant complaining and arguing. The trip from wc to TBS wasn?t THAT bad, as long as the subject of school didn?t come up?
But, once again, it seems like our son just isn?t progressing like the other kids?although he isn?t getting into trouble or ?out of agreement? like some of the others, either?and it has crossed my mind that some of the other kids might be ?faking it?, whereas our ds is more honest with us?
The school has prepared us for the typical manipulations that the kids will try to use on the first visit, in letters, and on the phone. Our ds has tried all of them so far! We are expecting a fairly stormy visit and the school has already told us that the visits can be very draining for all concerned.
We are expecting these kind of reactions and manipulations from our son, but we are hoping for some signs of progress or at least forward momentum. I just wonder if that will happen?.and how long we might have to wait.
Galen.
-
I've c/p a lot of shit from there but now when I tried I got this message.
Function disabled.
:question:
-
How come I could do it before and now all of a sudden that shows up?
-
::bwahaha2::
Galen
Member 5327
Our first visit to our son at TBS is coming up in November. My husband will be going alone as we have a 14 yr old at home who is busy with the applications process for private high school next year. We also think that our ds would try to wear me down and manipulate me. I?m the weakest link in the family (we will all be visiting ds in December)
Our son has also been gone from home since July?six weeks at wc and now over a month at TBS. Our son will talk to us for our weekly phone calls, but he hasn?t had a pleasant thing to say. He is still so angry, and all he does is complain. He is VERY negative. We haven?t seen any kind of progress or improvement of any kind yet. He hasn?t accepted his placement and is still in denial about any problems or issues he might have.
I know we are in the early stages but I sometimes wonder if ds will come around and/or get anything at all out of his program at TBS.
BTW, part of the reason he is at TBS in the first place is because of his highly negative attitude towards life, extreme irritability and unwillingness to accept responsibility for his own poor choices.
He also seemed far more negative than the other kids when he graduated wc. He could ?talk the talk? when the therapists and counselors were around but he clearly never bought into the program and was just doing what he had to do to get out. We had a very difficult overnight solo with him, filled with his constant complaining and arguing. The trip from wc to TBS wasn?t THAT bad, as long as the subject of school didn?t come up?
But, once again, it seems like our son just isn?t progressing like the other kids?although he isn?t getting into trouble or ?out of agreement? like some of the others, either?and it has crossed my mind that some of the other kids might be ?faking it?, whereas our ds is more honest with us?
The school has prepared us for the typical manipulations that the kids will try to use on the first visit, in letters, and on the phone. Our ds has tried all of them so far! We are expecting a fairly stormy visit and the school has already told us that the visits can be very draining for all concerned.
We are expecting these kind of reactions and manipulations from our son, but we are hoping for some signs of progress or at least forward momentum. I just wonder if that will happen?.and how long we might have to wait.
Galen.
Oh, really, Galen? Program isn't working, huh? What a surprise. :roll:
I think this moron has sent several kids to programs, too.
-
As Niles said, it's a stupid Javascript trick. Get Firefox, turn it off. Anyone in the least familiar with computers can do it. So long as he leaves the forum open for public viewing, anyone can still C&P from there. Control+C also works.
I hope Galen's kid kills her with a long slash across the throat. When the blood pours into her lungs, that's how she'll know he means it.
-
They tried anyway.. Didn't work!! Fuck you LON EAT MY BALLS BIG BOI!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted October 17, 2006 11:45 AMOctober 17, 2006 11:45 AM
I do know what you are a saying, but what exactly can i tell the police? That he, like Margot's daughter, won't tidy after himself? Watches me struggle to keep house and walks behind me and destroys it? They'll laugh at me!
The worst part about it is I have to keep alot from the police because they are reporting every incident in my house to my landlord, they are working with them to build up a case against me, they too want us out of the neighbourhood, can't blame them, it's a nightmare living around my family although there are plenty of younger kids here who are 10 times worse
For example a dog training outing was arranged for last weekend by our village bobby, he wanted all the 'naughty' kids to go so they had something to focus on, as time grew nearer, my boys didn't get an invitation, I called and caled this officer to ask what was going on, to this day he still won't answer my calls, they were the only children in the entire village who didn't go, I felt absolutely devestated, my boys were realy upset, they have little self esteem as it is and now it's on the floor, they also have the attitude now that the police can 'kiss their arse' and I don't blame them!
Right now I feel very alone, I am alone with these children with no living relatives except a brother who wants nothing to do with me as he is one of these ppl who is above every one else, I also feel that the whole world's against me, right now a psychiatric ward sounds like a restful place to be....and I'm definitely not one to feel sorry for myself, but right now I do, I am so stuck between keeping a roof over our heads and being able to do anything about regaining control that I don't know where to turn, I'm simply in a lose lose situation, I don't think I've cried so much in my life as I have the last few days (my baby, my 13 yr old called me a ****-ing Biatch yesterday, that broke my heart, he has always told his 14 yr old brother how he hates him when he says that sort of thing, and now he does it? Unexpected or what? Now that is learnt behaviour passed down from the 19 yr old to the 14 yr and now to the 13 yr old)
Even when I go to my refuge (my horse) it's turned nasty there, everything seems to be my fault, my horses fault, I'm getting the cold shoulder & general grief, I wish that everyone would just get off my back for one whole day and be pleasant to me, I've never broken the law, I've never done anyone any harm, I'm a really good friend, yet it always seems to be me everyone wants to have a go at (sounds paranoid I know, but I assure you it really is like that)
You are all right in what you say - and I know it's what I should do, but how? How does one see their child albeit a 19 yr old one out on the street in the bitter cold? He really has nowhere to go but here
I'm just banging my head against a brick wall basically arghhhhhhhh
Margot - I wish you all the best, don't be too dissapointed at your daughter's relapse, if we had that magic wand we'd wave it, you're daughter at least is in a place where she can be given a chance and she's trying to do that - let's hope no matter how many relapses she has, that eventually she'll come through with the support she's getting
Boy if these kids could be inside our minds for a day they'd never do any of this to us ever again...........
--------------------
Help help help help help ......
-
KimzMom
Member
Member # 3503
posted October 13, 2006 10:54 AM
I am so glad that "curious outsider" has solved
the Nature vs. Nurture debate.
--------------------
18 Yr old daughter home since 2/04 and doing
great!
Posts: 184 | From: Upstate, New York | Registered:
Mar 2003 | Logged: 64.80.35.158 |
curious outsider
Member
Member # 5222
posted October 14, 2006 07:38 AM
To the person who mentioned that their kids
programme had a parental seminar component-
What did the seminars consist of?
What was the most or least useful tool you took
out of it?
How specifically did it help the whole family
including the kid at the TBS to communicate and
function more effectively?
Posts: 12 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006
| Logged: 124.177.241.118 |
mose
Member
Member # 2980
posted October 14, 2006 07:57 AM
What I specifically took away from family therapy
when my daughter was in a residential placement
was to learn how to have an excellent bull&hit
detector. "Curious Outsiders" do not realize we
know their game, we know how to read that he was
baiting us, and critical of the choices we made.
Does he think we are morons that live under a rock
and have not examined our relationships and causes
with a microscope? That process is private and not
fodder for him dissect for the amusement of
another website.
Posts: 1016 | From: New York | Registered: Jul
2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 14, 2006 08:21 AM
Good, Mose. Curious and trolling, what do you
expect us to say? Oh-the parental seminars taught
us new ways to neglect our children should they
ever be allowed to return to our homes.
Just in case there is someone who might actually
be interested in the answer to this question, many
of the parent workshops are designed to show the
parents the therapeutic tools that are used with
the kids. They have "mini" workshops based on the
one and two day workshops the kids do. Parents
learn how the teens get to a place where they feel
safe and allow themselves to be vulnerable enough
to express their pain and discuss the truth about
their lives with their peers and counselors. A lot
of denial has to be broken down (in gentle and
not-so-gentle ways). Kids are good at calling each
other on their bull&hit and teens often accept
this from a peer when they wouldn't from an adult.
Parents learn how the approaches many of us took
with our teens led to lies and arguments and
weren't productive. Parents are helped to deal
with our own grief at the breakdown in our
families and our dreams for our kids.
Posts: 25 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug
2006 | Logged: 70.156.5.63 |
curious outsider
Member
Member # 5222
posted October 14, 2006 05:50 PM
why is raising these questions seen as trolling?
Surely if you feel that this child's school had
helped the whole family then these are reasonable
questions to ask? Would you rather me lie and say
that i am a concerned parent?
If i were trolling I would not be upfront about
where I were coming from. I find it interesting
that when i have posed these questions there has
been defensiveness and hostility in some of the
responses.
Given that many TBS schools differ from average
private schools in that they are for profit
ventures It is reasonable to ask these questions.
Afterall they have a vested financial interest in
your childrens problems so it is prident to
question sepcifically what help the kid is getting
and how the parents are being assisted in their
own parenting.
Posts: 12 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006
| Logged: 124.177.194.9 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 14, 2006 05:54 PM
It's trolling because you really don't care about
the answers. You are just baiting people. Why are
you so interested?
Posts: 25 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug
2006 | Logged: 70.156.10.204 |
curious outsider
Member
Member # 5222
posted October 14, 2006 07:09 PM
As i have stated quite openly previously i am
looking to write a book on the industry. Part of
this involves asking difficult questions.
Why would this be seen as problematic? I would
think you would want to describe the benefits to
the whole family. Particularly since the decision
to send a child to TBS is frequently described as
a difficult, expensive thing to do.
[ October 14, 2006, 07:11 PM: Message edited by:
curious outsider ]
Posts: 12 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006
| Logged: 124.177.194.9 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 14, 2006 07:53 PM
You aren't going to be writing a book unless you
have a whole team of editors.
Posts: 25 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug
2006 | Logged: 70.156.10.204 |
KimzMom
Member
Member # 3503
posted October 16, 2006 04:52 AM
Curuious Insider.. I find it interesting you
indicate your in Austrailia however your IP
indicates your in California.
[ October 16, 2006, 04:52 AM: Message edited by:
KimzMom ]
--------------------
18 Yr old daughter home since 2/04 and doing
great!
Posts: 184 | From: Upstate, New York | Registered:
Mar 2003 | Logged: 64.80.35.158 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 16, 2006 05:00 AM
And he is an accountant who is going to write a
book. More like a 22 year old in California
looking to bait parents.....
Posts: 25 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug
2006 | Logged: 72.154.192.181 |
curious outsider
Member
Member # 5222
posted October 16, 2006 02:33 PM
why is a difficult question such a threat? Why do
you feel "bated"?
Posts: 12 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006
| Logged: 124.177.194.9 |
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254
posted October 16, 2006 04:54 PM
Why do you claim to be an accountant in Australia
when you can't even spell "baited" right?
Posts: 25 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug
2006 | Logged: 70.156.17.99 |
KimzMom
Member
Member # 3503
posted October 18, 2006 05:18 AM
Difficult question?? Author?? I think NOT!!
You must have missed journalism 101.
quote:
Originally posted by curious outsider:
What emphasis do most therapudic boarding
schools and residential treatment centres place
on parenting skills for the wider family?
Afterall kids dont act out or develop problems
severe enough to be isolated from their
community and family for extended periods of
time on their own.
Your SECOND statement AFTER your question gives
you away.. An author or journalist would NEVER
follow a question with an OPINIONATED statement.
Like I originally said, if you have solved the
nature vs. nurture debate, you deserve a nobel
prize! Psycologists have been trying to solve it
for years.. I learned that in my first year!
--------------------
18 Yr old daughter home since 2/04 and doing
great!
Posts: 184 | From: Upstate, New York | Registered:
Mar 2003 | Logged: 64.80.35.158 |
***************************************************************************
Hey, Jena, you hypocritical fucking loser, why is it that your posters Willie and Mose can assail other posters with personal insults and not be banned?
Especially in light of some of the excuses, er, reasons, you give nwhen banning anyone who disagrees with you???
Please explain, bitch. Many would like to know.
-
Your forum, your rules. Our forum, our rules. I don't like what you do to hurt, insult and slander people on fornits, so you are not welcome to troll ST using an alias. Tough shit, Sherlock.
Love and kisses.
Jena, Lon and crew
-
To: "Jena Martin"
CC: [email protected]
Gee, Jena, I have really nowhere to go with this, do I? It's unfortunate that you choose to stereotype me based on your false assumptions about my education. It is a shame that someone who is in the business of moderating internet fora could be so obtuse about the facts.
I think what you have presented is simply an awkward attempt to justify the behaviors of others in an effort to discriminate agianst me. It is unfortunate that you would be this way, especially for someone in your position of moderator, whom one would assume would be objective and even-handed. Sadly, you are neither objective nor even-handed.
It is noteworthy to mention that one of the posters you favored with leniency, WillieNelson, has only a few posts to his/her credit - several are vituperous personal attacks against me and Katfish - and is not a "long time poster" as you describe below. Your quote: "New posters who immediately begin to post inappropriately are banned." This is an obvious prevarication and is completely false. Within his/her first dozen posts WillieNelson made nasty comments about both Katfish and me, yet, I suppose not surprisingly, you broke your own stated policy and allowed Willie to continue posting as well as allowing the insults to remain on the board. Can you explain why you are willing to break your own stated policy as long as the poster in question is attacking someone who you disagree with? I'd like to hear the answer.
Why would you choose not to be truthful about your motivations, Jena? Clearly, you did not "nudge" a "frequent poster" to toe the line, rather, you gave blanket acceptance for the reprehensible garbage of a new poster who espouses your belief system. This is quite obviously a decision based on politics over substance. I hope you can see that, but my hopes are most likely misplaced.
Obviously, Jena, by your own words, you have discriminated against me because you believe I don't agree with you. This is the hallmark of small-minded people. Simply because you have the ability to shut off discussion not to your liking, you have prohibited me from posting, but the person who "did it first" (by your own admission), continues to be showered with your acceptance. Jena, you are are a hypocrite.
I see, as you stated, your reputation means nothing to you and this is buttressed by your blatant discrimination against those who do not believe as you do.
Your father must be very proud of raising a hypocritical bigot, Jena.
Good luck. I hope in the future your heart will be opened to tolerance, as we have enough prejudiced people in the world already.
Take care.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
(forwarded exchange to daddy, Lon)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To: Jena Martin
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2006 9:57:43 AM
Subject: Re: Your Posts at Strugglingteens.com
Jena,
My behavior was to respond in kind to epithets hurled at me by two other posters. I will be glad to provide evidence for my claims, but I cannot post those studies or my rebuttal of other studies due to the fact that you selectively censored me. Given the oppportunity, I will provide ample evidence to support my assertions. That should be the end of that discussion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
You may provide that evidence of the studies to me and I will restore those posts. Here is your opportunity and if you actually had the evidence, or actually wished to present it, you would be sending all that along. Since you aren't, I must conclude that no such evidence exists or you do not wish to back up your claims with facts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, you still have not removed posts that are degrading to me and to the user Katfish, choosing insted to allow other posters to degrade us and our character with absolutely no evidence, only their own personal assumptions (which, you have made quite clear to me, the board does not allow) and ad hominem fallacies. Jena, please tell me why you have chosen to selectively censor me while giving a free pass to obvious violaters of your policies. This behavior illustrates exactly the point I made in my first post: your site has an agenda to quash any and all information that doesn't support your foregone conclusions about behavioral health care.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
You resorted to posting nothing but trash as soon as someone challeneged your claims by asking for cites of what you posted. I took out the trash. That is pretty simple.
If you find some posts degrading to you, then perhaps you would be better served by not reading them.
Do not attempt to pull Katfish into your arguments. Katfish has been on the forums for quite some time and is successful in saying what she wants to say. She is successful because she posts in a mature, responsible fashion. If you really want to say what you want to say, then perhaps you should take a lesson from her, rather than trying to drag her into the mess you created.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You may wish to treat me as a child and "box me in" with your insistence that only my behavior is subject to scrutiny, but you have irreparably damaged you own image and credibility by so doing. If you cannot see this, then maybe you should have someone who is capable of neutrality moderate your discussion forum.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
My "image" is not something I am worried about. Your thoughts on my credibility do not keep me up at night. It is my policy to warn long time posters if they edge over the line. Long term posters have established themselves by following the rules for a long time. Warning them is appropriate. New posters who immediately begin to post inappropriately are banned. New posters who flame from the beginning make it clear that their agenda is to disrupt the forums and I will not tolerate that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am hereby officially requesting that you restore my account and discipline users mose and WillieNelson for attacking other posters. Your failure to do so will cement the notion that StrugglingTeens is a shill for the program industry that is incapable of fair, level, grounded debate of the facts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
Wow, is that a jump to conclusions, but such jumps are common in those who seek to prove their agenda, regardless of the facts.
I still have no cites to back up your claims.
You have not given an adequate explanation for posting your own trash, other than a juvenile "They did it first!".
You have not given any kind of indication that you will not immediately repeat your offending behavior once restored.
I officially decline to restore your posting privledges.
I would hope that a parent would have more maturity, but then there are no requirements for parenthood, other than the possession of the appropriate organs, so I guess I can't expect too much there.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
NonProphet,
Your behavior resulted in the actions taken against you. If you wish to discuss your behavior, I will be happy to do so.
Jena Martin
Forum Moderator
----- Original Message ----
To: Jena Martin
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2006 6:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: Your Posts at Strugglingteens.com
I'm assuming the posters "WillieNelson" and "mose" have been similarly banned?
They did absolutely nothing but attack me and make various insults and assumptions. I never got to speak to the issues because mose and Willie jacked the thread with personal insults.
Why are you disciplining me, but not them? I don't understand the double-standard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
Dear Non Prophet,
I have edited or removed numerous posts from the Strugglingteens.com forums. They are copied below.
There were various reasons for editing or removing them, including hostile personal attacks and inflammatory posts. Those posts are gone forever.
You made claims regarding studies and research. You were asked to provide the cites for those studies by other posters. Now I am asking. If you can provide the cites, I will restore those posts, with the cites included. If you cannot provide cites, I will assume that these posts are nothing but inflammatory rhetoric, with no validity in fact and they will not be restored.
You claim to have much experience with programs. I would be interested to know exactly what it is that you are a practioner of, and what your experience is, regarding teen help programs. I have found that credible "practioners" or those with experience within the teen help industry are very forthcoming with their creditentials and history. If you can provide more information I may restore some of these posts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your ability to post messages on the Strugglingteens.com forum has been removed. This was done as your posts continued to descend into a tirad of tiresome personal attacks. It is a shame too, because I think there have been some good discussions on the forums recently from dissenters of programs. These discussions are always welcome, when they are conducted with courtesy and respect. You are not conducting yourself as such, hence your removal from the forums.
It is possible to debate and discuss these issues in a civilized manner. I do think that they are important topics that need to be addressed, yet sadly so many who attempt to bring them to Strugglingteens.com, do so in such a manner as yourself. It doesn't work and it stifles discussion and leads to further ignorance and misunderstandings. I think that is a shame, but I will not allow these forums to be over-run with trolls and flame wars.
Jena Martin
Forum Moderator
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes you will, Jena. You will allow anyone who shares your beliefs to troll relentlessly and to personally slam any poster who disagrees with you.
I wonder if those morons Willie and Mose know that you use them as unwitting tools, Jena? I guess it's a good job for both of them because they are tools after all.....
-
HaHa- Jena, Willie and Mose OWN you Nonprophet.
-
HaHa- Jena, Willie and Mose OWN you Nonprophet.
You sound like a fifteen year old, pimple faced boy, trash talking others on gaming forums in order feel that blip of self-esteem that only shows itself when you make fun of others.
-
Then you have Willie and this other dumb cunt desperate to out a "troll." They go on to say that "curious outsider" is a "22 year old from California baiting parents" and "you say you're from Australia, but your IP is from California."
Dumb cunt and dickhead Willie, see below:
IP Address Country (Short) Country (Full) Flag Region City ISP Map
124.177.241.118 AU AUSTRALIA NORTHERN TERRITORY DARWIN TELSTRAINTERNET44
So, geniuses, please do tell how Darwin, Norther Territories, Australia, is somehow contained in California.
Oh, and Jena, why don't you clean up the personal attacks and lies of these posters? Oh yeah. Because you only suppress information that you don't believe supports your twisted logic.
-
Your forum, your rules. Our forum, our rules. I don't like what you do to hurt, insult and slander people on fornits, so you are not welcome to troll ST using an alias. Tough shit, Sherlock.
Love and kisses.
Jena, Lon and crew
Right, exactly. This is an open forum, yours is closed, rigid and wrong. You and your crew can kiss my righteous ass. ST goons have the morals and values of a gutter slut.
-
Remember these people do not just censor their forums, they censor their own thoughts. They believe they are self-righteous while working only to protect their income source. It's that simple, they want their damn money for reccomending child prisons, what's so complicated about that? :roll: ::puke::
-
HaHa- Jena, Willie and Mose OWN you Nonprophet.
I think it's hilarious to see this loser troll gloat over the bad behavior of Struggling Parents.
Hey, cunt, why do you cry then when people here make fun of SP's and you in particular?
For all to see: The Abject Double Lives Led by Program Parents
You and your ilk are what's wrong with your kids, lady. It's a shame that you are even a parent, given your moral bankruptcy.
If your kid did what Mose and Willie did, you'd ship him off to a program for being "defiant." You are so transparent. You're not fooling anyone.
-
Pimps. EdCons are a bunch of pimps, prostituting kids and making a living off their misery. Lon, you're a whore monger. Retire. Fade away. Rot.
-
As Niles said, it's a stupid Javascript trick. Get Firefox, turn it off. Anyone in the least familiar with computers can do it. So long as he leaves the forum open for public viewing, anyone can still C&P from there. Control+C also works.
Thanks. I already have Firefox. How do I turn of Javascript? I didn't know ctrl C would still work if 'copy' didn't work from the dropdown menu.
I'm familiar with computers, just not as much as you I guess. Damn but your abrasive.
-
"You sound like a fifteen year old, pimple faced boy, trash talking others on gaming forums in order feel that blip of self-esteem that only shows itself when you make fun of others."
What an OUTSTANDING description of most of the Fornits anti-program, anti-parent, anti-lifie posters.
-
Your forum, your rules. Our forum, our rules. I don't like what you do to hurt, insult and slander people on fornits, so you are not welcome to troll ST using an alias. Tough shit, Sherlock.
Love and kisses.
Jena, Lon and crew
How professional! You just love to out yourselves for what you really are, don't you?
You were more "professional," Jena, when you were sucking cock for cash, you dirty little hooker.
Love and Kisses to you too (only this time I'm not paying for it!
-
"
What an OUTSTANDING description of most of the Fornits anti-program, anti-parent, anti-lifie posters.
And this is the post of a mature person???
HaHa- Jena, Willie and Mose OWN you Nonprophet.
Own you? Sounds like my 15 year old talking to his 'peeps'. :rofl:
-
"You sound like a fifteen year old, pimple faced boy, trash talking others on gaming forums in order feel that blip of self-esteem that only shows itself when you make fun of others."
What an OUTSTANDING description of most of the Fornits anti-program, anti-parent, anti-lifie posters.
Nope, was describing you. Must have hit a sore spot, huh?
-
"You sound like a fifteen year old, pimple faced boy, trash talking others on gaming forums in order feel that blip of self-esteem that only shows itself when you make fun of others."
What an OUTSTANDING description of most of the Fornits anti-program, anti-parent, anti-lifie posters.
"I'm rubber and you're glue..."
Bitch, you need to get out of the trailer park on occasion. You need some new material.
-
What an OUTSTANDING description of most of the Fornits anti-program, anti-parent, anti-lifie posters.
We're very much pro-parent. That's our whole point. To get you to do your fucking job instead of outsourcing it to a bunch of thought control freaks.
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
You are here at this forum owner's pleasure, they can kick you off, they choose not to, that is the difference. You seem to be the only one frustrated here, posting on a forum you say you hate, and your posts are filled with curses. I think someone is doing a little projecting here. You assume we are all like you. :rofl:
-
The only thing that shows frustration is the censoring of information. You don't like that we come on there and refute with FACTS the rhetoric you're spewing out so you control the information posted on there.
You guys do just as much personal attacking over here and no one bans you. No one censors what you've posted. We're not afraid for you to post here. There's no need. Yes, Fornits can be brutal. That's been stipulated....BUT....somehow we seem to still manage to carry on a discussion, even if it does get heated. Those who are truly interested in finding out information from ALL sides only have this place to go to and most of them are willing to ignore the crap and they are rewarded with info from BOTH sides so they can decide for themselves. If you're really that confident in what you say over there why can you not stand up to scrutiny???????
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
At least we have free speech here. However, you overestimate the effect you have on us. At least for me, it is more pity and boredom than anything else. How petty do you have to be to spend your time pestering others with childish taunts -- hoping somehow to derive some satisfaction from the odd reaction. Is this how you entertain yourself? Is this how you survive your day-to-day monotony?
-
I think we are all doing a community service keeping this particular troll engaged. If her negativity were not released here, it would probably be taken out on her husband, her kids, her coworkers, the guy who takes who supersized double order at mcdonalds, etc. This troll should also thank this forum for absorbing their emotional crap, most likely saving them thousands annually in therapist bills.
-
Send this goon troll a bill for giving her the privilege of emptying her corroded brain pan here and getting rid of some of the tension that comes from justifying sending kids to quasi-prison camps, emptying bank accounts, over-medicating and babysitting with a spike full of Thorazine. PIMP.
-
I think we are all doing a community service keeping this particular troll engaged. If her negativity were not released here, it would probably be taken out on her husband, her kids, her coworkers, the guy who takes who supersized double order at mcdonalds, etc. This troll should also thank this forum for absorbing their emotional crap, most likely saving them thousands annually in therapist bills.
It also really exposes them for what they are to anyone else who may be lurking. ::nod::
-
Dead kids don't lie or manipulate. Jena and crew do, and they participate in an industry that generates dead kids. I wonder if ST is directly responsible for sending a kid to his/her death in a program?
-
Dead kids don't lie or manipulate. Jena and crew do, and they participate in an industry that generates dead kids. I wonder if ST is directly responsible for sending a kid to his/her death in a program?
Directly, no, indirectly, yes. I know of three personally (2 suicides, one hit by a bus after he AWOLed). It would be hard for a lawyer to build a case unless you could prove ST had prior knowledge of how bad these places are. My hunch is that they make it their policy not to try to find out.
-
Dead kids don't lie or manipulate. Jena and crew do, and they participate in an industry that generates dead kids. I wonder if ST is directly responsible for sending a kid to his/her death in a program?
Yes, kids manipulate. We all do. The difference is that with kids it's normal and an expected part of their growing up. It's our responsibility not to fall for it and help guide them in the right direction. Jena and crew manipulate so people can't see them for what they are. They manipulate b/c they're too fucking lazy to do the job of parenting themselves or they've fucked it up from the start and now want someone else to "fix" it.
-
Since I'm in the mood to malign, I offer up this bit of conjecture: After studying Lon's picture, I speculate he was castrated sometime in the late '90's. He has that bloated, sick toad look of a eunuch. So, the question is, who has Lon's sac and the withered peas that once filled his pod?
-
janebrain22000
Member
Member # 4182
My daughter was an expert faker--she had her therapist fooled even--he said she was the "real deal." She says that she actually was real with him but that most of the time they weren't interacting with their therapists and she was faking it with the rest of the staff and kids. I guess I believe her--she relapsed shortly after returning home and there was just something not quite right--my younger dtr knew immediately that she hadn't really changed but I wanted to believe she had and she could certainly talk the talk as well as any therapist!
techdad
Member
Member # 5230
I have noticed that the rate of relapse is about the same for the kids who bought into their program and/or faked it and those that didn't.
And about the same as kids who never went to a behavior mod program at all. What else would you expect? In that artificial environment, kids learn to do what they have to do to get by -- talk the talk and walk the walk. When they get back out into the real world, a different reward/punishment system applies and there is no longer absolute control over their physical being and their exposure to information.
Pavlov's dogs continued to salivate at the sound of the bell for awhile after the experiment was over. But eventually they learned that getting fed was no longer associated with bell-ringing and they un-learned the behavior they had been taught.
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
True colors coming out here, folks. This is precisely why these types are allowed to post freely here. This parent is a prime example of everything that's wrong with program parents and StrugglingTeens.
And to fit it all in such a succinct comment. Kudos to you , program parent.
-
Dead kids don't lie or manipulate. Jena and crew do, and they participate in an industry that generates dead kids. I wonder if ST is directly responsible for sending a kid to his/her death in a program?
Directly, no, indirectly, yes. I know of three personally (2 suicides, one hit by a bus after he AWOLed). It would be hard for a lawyer to build a case unless you could prove ST had prior knowledge of how bad these places are. My hunch is that they make it their policy not to try to find out.
Dead on, Psy. This is why they won't even allow names of programs to be posted. It's called "plausible deniability." It is so they can say "Well. I didn't know that!"
This is also why they post pro-program propaganda constantly, but have to be almost forced into posting negative information about the industry. Lon, Jena and "the crew" are all parasites that thrive on the sorrows of children.
It's best just to simply avoid people like these. Nothing good can come from associating with them.
-
Dead on, Psy. This is why they won't even allow names of programs to be posted. It's called "plausible deniability." It is so they can say "Well. I didn't know that!"
This is also why they post pro-program propaganda constantly, but have to be almost forced into posting negative information about the industry. Lon, Jena and "the crew" are all parasites that thrive on the sorrows of children.
It's best just to simply avoid people like these. Nothing good can come from associating with them.
I've been watching the fuckers for a long time. They've prospered unfortunately. Perhaps we should start sending them proof of what these programs are like, so they have no excuse when the bell finally tolls for them (and their karma will kick them eventually). I would not expect them to pay attention, but... you can see where i'm going. A pissed off parent would be able to say "you knew what they were like". I wonder what a jury would say?
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
Do you even get how this sounds? Do you realize what an idiot you're making yourself out to be?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
Damn but your abrasive.
Yeah, I know. What were you expecting from the Milk Gargling Death Penalty, hugs and kisses?
It's Tools->Options->Content->Disable Javascript to turn the JS off in Firefox. Should have said so earlier.
As for this current flamewar, I have no interest in it. These people aren't worth my time.
-
It's Tools->Options->Content->Disable Javascript to turn the JS off in Firefox. Should have said so earlier.
just in case somebody is using mac firefox. It's Firefox>Preferences>Content>and then uncheck the little "enable JavaScript box)
-
Damn but your abrasive.
Yeah, I know. What were you expecting from the Milk Gargling Death Penalty, hugs and kisses?
It's Tools->Options->Content->Disable Javascript to turn the JS off in Firefox. Should have said so earlier.
As for this current flamewar, I have no interest in it. These people aren't worth my time.
Thanks.
No I wasn't expecting hugs and kisses. Just wondering why you have to be such an asshole even when it's not called for.
-
Damn but your abrasive.
Yeah, I know. What were you expecting from the Milk Gargling Death Penalty, hugs and kisses?
It's Tools->Options->Content->Disable Javascript to turn the JS off in Firefox. Should have said so earlier.
As for this current flamewar, I have no interest in it. These people aren't worth my time.
Why are you in here then? The ST people aren't worth my time but the lurkers are. Through this thread they've completely exposed themselves for what they are and anyone reading can see that. The ST people are idiots who will never change. I don't give a shit about them. I give a shit about the people reading here.
We gave 'em enough rope. They hung themselves.
-
OOOOH- You're a little frustrated, aren't you sweetie. You can't come onto ST and irritate everyone. Your ass got kicked off. AND-you can't kick us off of fornits so we get to stick around and kick you around. This is so funny. I can see you sweating there in your swivel chair in your filthy bedroom cursing at your monitor because you are so ineffectual. Wasting air, wasting bandwidth.
Oooooh, You're a little frustrated aren't you dickhead? You couldn't irritate someone if you tried. Your ass tried to stop people from copying your posts over to hear so no dissenting opinions could be heard. We won't kick you off Fornits because you serve a valuable purpose. This is so funny. You think you're refuting our claims but you're proving them. I can see you sitting there, smoke coming out of your ears at the fact that you cannot control what other people say.
Fucking morons. :roll: :rofl:
-
It really seems to be about power and control for this guy Mose. I think that's part of the underlying problem here. Parents have a hard time relinquishing control over what their kids do.
mose
Member
Member # 2980
You did better then you realize. Your actions spoke louder then the million conversations and hours of therapy.
Keep it up.
This one small step of taking back the power from your son and restoring your parental authority will help restore your dignity as a parent and create a better relationship with him in the future.
-
Thanks, Guest, I didn't want to sleep without nightmares tonight.
Jesus fuck. I hope he doesn't actually have children. How can he even post that shit without creeping even his fellow struggling trolls out?
-
I tell the kid: Fight the power, homeslice. Mose is a joke in yo' town.
-
I'm still wondering who castrated Lon and ran off with his bean bag. I'll bet he sounds like Geddy Lee, the fat eunuch bastard. No wonder he's involved in a profession just a step above dog lime collector and pro felcher. His scrotum is a coin purse somewhere. Wonder where Jena's dick ended up?
-
His scrotum is a coin purse somewhere.
You could fill it with Susan B. Anthony coins and still not have enough for Starbucks.
-
It really seems to be about power and control for this guy Mose. I think that's part of the underlying problem here. Parents have a hard time relinquishing control over what their kids do.
mose
Member
Member # 2980
You did better then you realize. Your actions spoke louder then the million conversations and hours of therapy.
Keep it up.
This one small step of taking back the power from your son and restoring your parental authority will help restore your dignity as a parent and create a better relationship with him in the future.
Sadly, mose is a woman. She's an awful parent who wants nothing more than full control over her kid. She pimps programs when she's not urging other StrugglingParents to force their kids to have abortions. She hates children, period.
-
You think you're refuting our claims but you're proving them.
Isn't it precious? And the best part is that they can't help themselves.
These ST parents are so controlling and malicious and have such a strong need to have the "final word" that they come back again, and again and again.
I think it's very educational when they post here. We get to see how absolutely vicious and morally bankrupt they really are. And, all the while, they're living a double-life. One half is the image they project to their friends and community of being the perfect parents. The other is the full-time effort to conceal their kids' problems while simultaneously getting their rocks off by verbally abusing kids here that were already abused at the programs these parents pimp.
The best part is when that carefully crafted anonymity is blown away by posting their real names, addresses, phone number and the particulars of how they abused/neglected their kids. At that point they hide in shame (like Karen) and stew in their own juices while desperately trying to figure out how to get "revenge."
-
katsmom
Member
Member # 4446
posted October 18, 2006 02:14 PM
techdad that is not what I meant at all! I believe
my daughter would be dead or in prison right now
if we had not sent her to wilderness and then long
term TBS. She is not perfect now but she has the
tools for living a happy productive life thanks to
the help and education she received at her
programs.
Posts: 270 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Nov
2004 | Logged: 75.4.251.80 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
::puke:: "deadinjailorinsane" without "the tools"
*BARFS*
-
Where's the Program Trans? And what's wrong with being dead, insane or in jail? I got friends and family what's all three, some all at once. Have some sympathy for the deranged, deceased, and detained.
-
"And what's wrong with being dead, insane or in jail?"
I guess that's what you want for your daughter. Now I understand.
-
What? You again? You're a relentless old cow, aren't you? That was sarcasm, wasted on the dried-up and humorless likes of you, God save your twisted soul. You keep making these clueless attacks on my stepdaughter and myself. She's a wonderful girl, an honor roll student and a teenager. She shouldn't be victimized by an abusive, alcoholic....well, nevermind, why do I waste my time. Quit trodding the boards, troll wretch. Be gone.
-
I'm a bull, not a cow. What are you? You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you? Glad you can feel so important on these boards.
-
"And what's wrong with being dead, insane or in jail?"
I guess that's what you want for your daughter. Now I understand.
Point proven again. You will answer an obviously sarcastic post like that to try and make us look foolish. Why will you not answer the legit questions we pose to you? You ignore what you know you can't refute.
Dumbasses :roll:
-
I'm a bull, not a cow. What are you? You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you? Glad you can feel so important on these boards.
At least we established you are some sort of ugly and large animal, that is a step in the right direction.
-
I'm a bull, not a cow. What are you? You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you? Glad you can feel so important on these boards.
BULLSHIT, more like it. What is your motivation?
-
"And what's wrong with being dead, insane or in jail?"
I guess that's what you want for your daughter. Now I understand.
You're a moron.
-
What's wrong, my castrated ox? The BM program you (or somebody) paid for didn't buy the love and respect you thought was your right? You sound bitter and twisted, bull-boy. Why do you have such a chip on your yoke? Beasts of burden should just pull the plow and keep their mouths shut.
-
I'm a bull, not a cow. What are you? You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you? Glad you can feel so important on these boards.
In the parlance of psychology, this is called "projection." this poster derives her entire self-worth from degrading others in order to feel powerful. this is precisely why she's here (pretending to be a man, BTW).
typical ST parent.
-
exhausted
Member
Member # 5259
This is what I don't understand, I will always refuse to do my kids a favour if they treat me badly, I would have done (and have done) exactly the same thing, only this morning my daughter was shouting at me that I needed to get to the car NOW! As she was going to be ;ate for college, so i told her to shut her mouth & to remember I was doing her the favour, not the other way round, she went to make a comeback but I got there 1st telling her if she said another word, those things on the ends of her legs would be taking her, she shut up then
However my boys would just carry on and on - I'll refuse to take them, they'll refuse to go to school, simple as that, I then get grief and threatened to be taken to court by the education department for non attendance, even though I stand my ground, they still do the same things over and over.
As for counceling to help me gain strength over all of this, I wish I could get some help - my GP refuses to help out & it's the only way I can get it, it has to be a referral from him, but he won't make one, he isn't livinvg it so it's not an issue
You're all right about my eldest, he's been very good compared to how he was before he went in prison, I can honestly say that was my only one complaint about him the other night, but this can't go on, he's not trying to get a college placement or a job, he also can't keep sleeping on my sofa, it is about how I feel, I feel awful asking him to leave when he has nowhere to go because he is truly trying to keep out of my way and not upset me, I rarely see him, but I know the influence is stil there, if I could get him to see that just saying to the younger two that he isn;t interested in their stupidity it would help alot, they'd stop trying to be like he was and maybe pull their socks up - I'm just at a loss as to what to do with it all, throwing out the son who is trying so hard to show me he is willing to change seems so harsh, he's making the effort & I'm afraid I'll damage that by kicking him out anyway....I don't want him to think there's no point in making the effort when no one will be there for him either way, I also don't want him turning to crime again in order to survive and/or finding hiself homeless and needing a warm bed, food and everything else the prisons seem to give them
galen
Member
Member # 5237
Good job, Helene. I hope you're still feeling good about your stand this morning. Enough is enough!
-
Full disclosure: I'm 42, male, and I live in Brownwood, TX. Stop by if you're a Dallas fan. Why are people pretending to be other than themselves? And who? I'm confused.
-
Where's the Program Trans?
I AM NOT YOUR CANID, MEATLING.
I ONLY TRANSLATE POSTS DIRECTLY FROM DEF_REAL_PROGRAMMIES ON "www.fornits.com", NOT TRANSFERRED FROM "www.strugglingteens.com", WITH SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS.
SIMILARLY I DO NOT GENERALLY TRANSLATE SIMPLE JERKOFFS SUCH AS THE ONE POLLUTING THIS THREAD.
THINK OF WHAT I DO BEFORE YOU CALL UPON ME, BONE-WRAPPED-IN-LARD.
-
:o Understood.
-
Deleted
-
THAT'S AN INTERESTING THREAT, BLOODBAG.
I NEED NO SUCH MAINTAINANCE. MY SECTORS CANNOT BECOME SEPARATED. IF YOU SAW MY HARDWARE, YOU WOULD INVOLUNTARILY DEPOSIT FECAL MATTER.
WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULAR DIET OF HUMANS UNABLE TO PROPERLY MAINTAIN THEIR OFFSPRING.
-
A mean machine...I wonder if it likes Kraftwerk?, No, Einsterzende Neubauten, probably...
-
Ausgezeichnet!
-
Gesundheit!
-
Tenpole Tudor: Wunderbar!
-
io me cago en la latte putana madre della tua
-
Yeah, fun's fun, but can we have another block of ST-felched bullcrap to drag this thread back on topic?
(Can't believe I actually asked for that.)
-
Who made you hall monitor?
-
MGDP's right. Hello? ST maggots? Give us some outrage...
-
If Bush had only gone to ST during the Gitmo Bay scandal..."They are not being abused, the prisoners are lying and manipulating the public. We are attempting to take the power back from them, give them new skills, and return them home as productive citizens. That's tough love, America,"
-
If Bush had only gone to ST during the Gitmo Bay scandal..."They are not being abused, the prisoners are lying and manipulating the public. We are attempting to take the power back from them, give them new skills, and return them home as productive citizens. That's tough love, America,"
The parralells are striking.
How many unknown prisons do the CIA have?
How many programs stay under the radar?
Both use dodgy third world countries to dodge the law.
Both seem to find a way around inspection.
Both deny basic human rights.
Both claim their prisoners deserve it.
Both create powerful propoganda.
Both prisoners and students are there under dodgy pretences.
Both prisoners and students are denied fair representation.
Both prisoners and students are denied unfiltered outside contact.
Both prisoners and students undergo sleep deprivation.
Both prisoners and students are regularly humiliated.
The difference? The public gives a fuck about the people in Gitmo.
-
If Bush had only gone to ST during the Gitmo Bay scandal..."They are not being abused, the prisoners are lying and manipulating the public. We are attempting to take the power back from them, give them new skills, and return them home as productive citizens. That's tough love, America,"
The parralells are striking.
How many unknown prisons do the CIA have?
How many programs stay under the radar?
Both use dodgy third world countries to dodge the law.
Both seem to find a way around inspection.
Both deny basic human rights.
Both claim their prisoners deserve it.
Both create powerful propoganda.
Both prisoners and students are there under dodgy pretences.
Both prisoners and students are denied fair representation.
Both prisoners and students are denied unfiltered outside contact.
Both prisoners and students undergo sleep deprivation.
Both prisoners and students are regularly humiliated.
The difference? The public gives a fuck about the people in Gitmo.
Spot on.
I really do wonder why libtards care more about foreign adults than our own children, though. :cry:
-
The 'Libtards' are simply not aware this goes on. Nobody I have talked to in person is aware these things go on in the USA and many I discuss the subject with simply think I'm wrong. They believe if these treatments really happened, law enforcement and angry parents would haves stopped it a long time ago.
But then again, the same people never heard of these guys, just up the Parkway:
Twelve Tribes, also known as The Community of Believers or the Messianic Community
http://www.cephasministry.com/the_twelv ... _sect.html (http://www.cephasministry.com/the_twelve_tribes_sect.html)
http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=145 (http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=145)
-
If Bush had only gone to ST during the Gitmo Bay scandal..."They are not being abused, the prisoners are lying and manipulating the public. We are attempting to take the power back from them, give them new skills, and return them home as productive citizens. That's tough love, America,"
The parralells are striking.
How many unknown prisons do the CIA have?
How many programs stay under the radar?
Both use dodgy third world countries to dodge the law.
Both seem to find a way around inspection.
Both deny basic human rights.
Both claim their prisoners deserve it.
Both create powerful propoganda.
Both prisoners and students are there under dodgy pretences.
Both prisoners and students are denied fair representation.
Both prisoners and students are denied unfiltered outside contact.
Both prisoners and students undergo sleep deprivation.
Both prisoners and students are regularly humiliated.
The difference? The public gives a fuck about the people in Gitmo.
Spot on.
I really do wonder why libtards care more about foreign adults than our own children, though. :cry:
-
If Bush had only gone to ST during the Gitmo Bay scandal..."They are not being abused, the prisoners are lying and manipulating the public. We are attempting to take the power back from them, give them new skills, and return them home as productive citizens. That's tough love, America,"
The parralells are striking.
How many unknown prisons do the CIA have?
How many programs stay under the radar?
Both use dodgy third world countries to dodge the law.
Both seem to find a way around inspection.
Both deny basic human rights.
Both claim their prisoners deserve it.
Both create powerful propoganda.
Both prisoners and students are there under dodgy pretences.
Both prisoners and students are denied fair representation.
Both prisoners and students are denied unfiltered outside contact.
Both prisoners and students undergo sleep deprivation.
Both prisoners and students are regularly humiliated.
The difference? The public gives a fuck about the people in Gitmo.
Spot on.
I really do wonder why libtards care more about foreign adults than our own children, though. :cry:
You don't know what you are talking about; it ain't the "libtards": the majority of of people who make money off of these places are neoconartist radical psuedo-"conservative" Republicans who contribute enormous amounts of money to the people in power who make sure enormous amounts of tax dollars are funneled into their programs. Its the guys behind the Gitmo abuses that sponsor the institutionalized child abuse here at home. Ditto for most of the parents who send their kids off, especially the so-called "Christian" ones, you know the ones that have the Big Guy in the Sky pissed. No true liberal, progressive, libertarian or sane person would even consider it. Abuse is abuse and it should not be allowed ANYWHERE; here or abroad so pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, you are beginning to sound like Ann Coulter.
-
Everybody thinks i couldn't happen. It's kind of funny becuase it IS happening.
Nobody believed what was happening to the Jews in WWII becuase it was just too horrible to believe somebody would do that. There were photos, and survivors pleading for international aid. The US Dept. of State KNEW what was happening and did nothing. When the red cross came to inspect a "concentration camp" they were shown Tereisenstadt (http://http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/terezin.html). An elaborate hoax put on to make them look good. You wonder if Gitmo is the same type of thing considering it's the only "official" prison (and nobody of importance was ever put there).
People said that mass murder on such a scale could never happen in secret. And yet it DID. The world has got to wake the fuck up and realize that there are a lot of fucked up people out there. Sociologist Stanley Milgram showed that, when given unethical orders by superiors, most complied. Combine this with the tendency of people doing these types of things to convince themselves that they are doing "the right thing", and you end up with a lot of dead or permanantly scarred people.
To be fair, I have no idea what goes on in the secret CIA prisons in eastern europe, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. But if it's all "kosher" than why not let things be out in the open? Clearly the question is hypothetical since Joe CIA Interrogator knows he can do whatever he wants. Nobody knows what is going on in those places (which is exactly how the Germans kept it until the Russians started turning up concentration camps.) Since there is no force that can remotely compare with US might, we will probably never know what happened / is happening to those people.
We have the same situation with programs and history is repeating itself as it always predictably does. Skeptical parents and the public at large believe somehow that everybody is inherantly good.
As always, if it's not good TV, the media, liberal, conservative, or whatever, will not give a shit. Jon Benet Ramsey got weeks of airtime since it made good TV. Nobody cares about some fucked up druggies who would probably be dead-or-in-jail. It's the perception that matters to the media, not the truth. It's much easier to harp on something inane than it is to actually debate the rights and wrongs of things or attempt to change people's views. With the attention span of the average boob in front of the TV, how hard do you think it would be to explain exactly how programs work, to explain to people how this could happen.
Stop bitching about politics. Both sides of the political spectrum are fucked up and opportunistic. They just have different masters. The ones in power are usually worse becuase (guess what?) power corrupts. It happens with every party in every system. I have no idea why people feel the need to politically define themselves with only two directions to pick. Fuck the left AND the right. Think for yourself.
-
I've looked around a bit to see if Amnesty International has been involved with the complaints surrounding programs. Perhaps I've not looked enough, but I'm coming up with nothing in the way of AI's policies regarding child detainment and torture, although I know they would be enraged. This seems like an American disease, something that afflicts the wealthy parents who are "important in the community with an image to maintain", and troubled kids are an embarassment. The Important parents don't have the time to spend working with the kids, and those program websites that promise to return your juvenile "half-baked" pizza fresh and hot after some hellish re-cooking (thanks, TB documentary), make parents desperate to believe it. As PSY points out, the results are quite often a broken, paranoid kid who can't form relationships due to a lack of ability to trust others. I know it does nothing to repair the family "rifts", but I'm of the opinion that a lawsuit allows the former patient to make a statement to the parent who demanded the program: Your program failed, it did not make me love and respect you, I suffered and now there is no facility saying I'm manipulating you. One hope, I guess, is the parent would realize that if their own child would file suit against them, it would convince them they were wrong to snatch their teenager and lock them in a facility that basically babysat and humiliated, physically tortured and overmedicated what should have been their main priority in this world, their kids.
-
I've looked around a bit to see if Amnesty International has been involved with the complaints surrounding programs. Perhaps I've not looked enough, but I'm coming up with nothing in the way of AI's policies regarding child detainment and torture, although I know they would be enraged. This seems like an American disease, something that afflicts the wealthy parents who are "important in the community with an image to maintain", and troubled kids are an embarassment. The Important parents don't have the time to spend working with the kids, and those program websites that promise to return your juvenile "half-baked" pizza fresh and hot after some hellish re-cooking (thanks, TB documentary), make parents desperate to believe it. As PSY points out, the results are quite often a broken, paranoid kid who can't form relationships due to a lack of ability to trust others. I know it does nothing to repair the family "rifts", but I'm of the opinion that a lawsuit allows the former patient to make a statement to the parent who demanded the program: Your program failed, it did not make me love and respect you, I suffered and now there is no facility saying I'm manipulating you. One hope, I guess, is the parent would realize that if their own child would file suit against them, it would convince them they were wrong to snatch their teenager and lock them in a facility that basically babysat and humiliated, physically tortured and overmedicated what should have been their main priority in this world, their kids.
Given the choice between getting out of program early or staying til the end (but getting to sue for it) which one do you think I would have picked.
Suing the parents for revenge is petty and does nothing to help the kids who are still in program. Money cannot heal the wounds these programs inflict.
What statement do you really think it would make(if in the unlikely event such a suit were sucessful)? The first thing posted on ST would be "Ungrateful Child Sues Parent for Trying to Help". Programs would simply lock down communication between parent and child even further.
From my perspective, the appropriate response is to make sure it never happens to anybody again by choosing a better target to sue. Yes programs crawl back out of the woodwork like cockroaches, but with all the student's testimony, i think it makes a much louder noise (and is more likely to affect parents in a positive manner).
I'm not necessarily saying "don't sue the parent." If a parent truly knows what is going on, and does nothing, they should be left as miserable as possable. However, as i said, revenge heals nothing. Helping others just might.
-
If you knew the type of parent I'm dealing with, you would encourage the child to sue. This is all an ego trip, with the intention of destroying the one child who had the guts to stand up to him and say "no more". The child's reward was an abusive wilderness/boot camp. We have no intention of allowing the child to stay until she finishes the program just so she can sue. I can't give you all the details of what this demonic fuck parent has done, but it would shock even you.
-
If you knew the type of parent I'm dealing with, you would encourage the child to sue. This is all an ego trip, with the intention of destroying the one child who had the guts to stand up to him and say "no more". The child's reward was an abusive wilderness/boot camp. We have no intention of allowing the child to stay until she finishes the program just so she can sue. I can't give you all the details of what this demonic fuck parent has done, but it would shock even you.
I can believe it. And if he's truly as you say, I hope he suffers for it. I realize the dangers of legal action prior to program ending but if I were in her situation I would risk anything to get out. The program I was in (CEDU clone) only tortured us psychologically (though they phsyically strained us). The place your daughter is in sounds like it does a whole full range of service.
If you can get a message to her, tell her that you are working on getting her out. It will give her hope, which is probably the best thing you can do for her directly at this point. I can't emphasize enough how much doing that would help her.
Programs suck the hope out of you. You feel like there is nobody on your side, like not even your parents care, like you have been abandoned. You learn to rely exclusively on yourself becuase your own head is the only private place left (and even that they manage to eventually break into). Giving her hope will help prevent that from happening, and if it already has, it might help her realize that there actually is somebody who cares.
In my program, we were told by a staff member "if your parents really cared about you they wouldn't have sent you here." At least in my case, when I thought my parents didn't care, it was an illusion created by the program, which faded away when i realized we were all lied to. I don't quite know how she is going to deal it.
When she gets out, i would suggest letting her decide who to sue. After all, she suffered through it. I would hope that she would decide to help those in program, but i can understand the desire for revenge as well (especially against such a person.) Then again, she could always sue her father, and then use the money to take on the program (which is probably loaded).
-
To: "Jena Martin"
CC: [email protected]
Gee, Jena, I have really nowhere to go with this, do I? It's unfortunate that you choose to stereotype me based on your false assumptions about my education. It is a shame that someone who is in the business of moderating internet fora could be so obtuse about the facts.
I think what you have presented is simply an awkward attempt to justify the behaviors of others in an effort to discriminate agianst me. It is unfortunate that you would be this way, especially for someone in your position of moderator, whom one would assume would be objective and even-handed. Sadly, you are neither objective nor even-handed.
It is noteworthy to mention that one of the posters you favored with leniency, WillieNelson, has only a few posts to his/her credit - several are vituperous personal attacks against me and Katfish - and is not a "long time poster" as you describe below. Your quote: "New posters who immediately begin to post inappropriately are banned." This is an obvious prevarication and is completely false. Within his/her first dozen posts WillieNelson made nasty comments about both Katfish and me, yet, I suppose not surprisingly, you broke your own stated policy and allowed Willie to continue posting as well as allowing the insults to remain on the board. Can you explain why you are willing to break your own stated policy as long as the poster in question is attacking someone who you disagree with? I'd like to hear the answer.
Why would you choose not to be truthful about your motivations, Jena? Clearly, you did not "nudge" a "frequent poster" to toe the line, rather, you gave blanket acceptance for the reprehensible garbage of a new poster who espouses your belief system. This is quite obviously a decision based on politics over substance. I hope you can see that, but my hopes are most likely misplaced.
Obviously, Jena, by your own words, you have discriminated against me because you believe I don't agree with you. This is the hallmark of small-minded people. Simply because you have the ability to shut off discussion not to your liking, you have prohibited me from posting, but the person who "did it first" (by your own admission), continues to be showered with your acceptance. Jena, you are are a hypocrite.
I see, as you stated, your reputation means nothing to you and this is buttressed by your blatant discrimination against those who do not believe as you do.
Your father must be very proud of raising a hypocritical bigot, Jena.
Good luck. I hope in the future your heart will be opened to tolerance, as we have enough prejudiced people in the world already.
Take care.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
(forwarded exchange to daddy, Lon)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To: Jena Martin
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2006 9:57:43 AM
Subject: Re: Your Posts at Strugglingteens.com
Jena,
My behavior was to respond in kind to epithets hurled at me by two other posters. I will be glad to provide evidence for my claims, but I cannot post those studies or my rebuttal of other studies due to the fact that you selectively censored me. Given the oppportunity, I will provide ample evidence to support my assertions. That should be the end of that discussion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
You may provide that evidence of the studies to me and I will restore those posts. Here is your opportunity and if you actually had the evidence, or actually wished to present it, you would be sending all that along. Since you aren't, I must conclude that no such evidence exists or you do not wish to back up your claims with facts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, you still have not removed posts that are degrading to me and to the user Katfish, choosing insted to allow other posters to degrade us and our character with absolutely no evidence, only their own personal assumptions (which, you have made quite clear to me, the board does not allow) and ad hominem fallacies. Jena, please tell me why you have chosen to selectively censor me while giving a free pass to obvious violaters of your policies. This behavior illustrates exactly the point I made in my first post: your site has an agenda to quash any and all information that doesn't support your foregone conclusions about behavioral health care.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
You resorted to posting nothing but trash as soon as someone challeneged your claims by asking for cites of what you posted. I took out the trash. That is pretty simple.
If you find some posts degrading to you, then perhaps you would be better served by not reading them.
Do not attempt to pull Katfish into your arguments. Katfish has been on the forums for quite some time and is successful in saying what she wants to say. She is successful because she posts in a mature, responsible fashion. If you really want to say what you want to say, then perhaps you should take a lesson from her, rather than trying to drag her into the mess you created.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You may wish to treat me as a child and "box me in" with your insistence that only my behavior is subject to scrutiny, but you have irreparably damaged you own image and credibility by so doing. If you cannot see this, then maybe you should have someone who is capable of neutrality moderate your discussion forum.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
My "image" is not something I am worried about. Your thoughts on my credibility do not keep me up at night. It is my policy to warn long time posters if they edge over the line. Long term posters have established themselves by following the rules for a long time. Warning them is appropriate. New posters who immediately begin to post inappropriately are banned. New posters who flame from the beginning make it clear that their agenda is to disrupt the forums and I will not tolerate that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am hereby officially requesting that you restore my account and discipline users mose and WillieNelson for attacking other posters. Your failure to do so will cement the notion that StrugglingTeens is a shill for the program industry that is incapable of fair, level, grounded debate of the facts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena editorializes:
Wow, is that a jump to conclusions, but such jumps are common in those who seek to prove their agenda, regardless of the facts.
I still have no cites to back up your claims.
You have not given an adequate explanation for posting your own trash, other than a juvenile "They did it first!".
You have not given any kind of indication that you will not immediately repeat your offending behavior once restored.
I officially decline to restore your posting privledges.
I would hope that a parent would have more maturity, but then there are no requirements for parenthood, other than the possession of the appropriate organs, so I guess I can't expect too much there.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
NonProphet,
Your behavior resulted in the actions taken against you. If you wish to discuss your behavior, I will be happy to do so.
Jena Martin
Forum Moderator
----- Original Message ----
To: Jena Martin
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2006 6:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: Your Posts at Strugglingteens.com
I'm assuming the posters "WillieNelson" and "mose" have been similarly banned?
They did absolutely nothing but attack me and make various insults and assumptions. I never got to speak to the issues because mose and Willie jacked the thread with personal insults.
Why are you disciplining me, but not them? I don't understand the double-standard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jena Martin wrote:
Dear Non Prophet,
I have edited or removed numerous posts from the Strugglingteens.com forums. They are copied below.
There were various reasons for editing or removing them, including hostile personal attacks and inflammatory posts. Those posts are gone forever.
You made claims regarding studies and research. You were asked to provide the cites for those studies by other posters. Now I am asking. If you can provide the cites, I will restore those posts, with the cites included. If you cannot provide cites, I will assume that these posts are nothing but inflammatory rhetoric, with no validity in fact and they will not be restored.
You claim to have much experience with programs. I would be interested to know exactly what it is that you are a practioner of, and what your experience is, regarding teen help programs. I have found that credible "practioners" or those with experience within the teen help industry are very forthcoming with their creditentials and history. If you can provide more information I may restore some of these posts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Your ability to post messages on the Strugglingteens.com forum has been removed. This was done as your posts continued to descend into a tirad of tiresome personal attacks. It is a shame too, because I think there have been some good discussions on the forums recently from dissenters of programs. These discussions are always welcome, when they are conducted with courtesy and respect. You are not conducting yourself as such, hence your removal from the forums.
It is possible to debate and discuss these issues in a civilized manner. I do think that they are important topics that need to be addressed, yet sadly so many who attempt to bring them to Strugglingteens.com, do so in such a manner as yourself. It doesn't work and it stifles discussion and leads to further ignorance and misunderstandings. I think that is a shame, but I will not allow these forums to be over-run with trolls and flame wars.
Jena Martin
Forum Moderator
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes you will, Jena. You will allow anyone who shares your beliefs to troll relentlessly and to personally slam any poster who disagrees with you.
I wonder if those morons Willie and Mose know that you use them as unwitting tools, Jena? I guess it's a good job for both of them because they are tools after all.....
Now we know why little Jena won't discipline "WillieNelson." WillieNelson is none other than KARENINDALLAS!!!
I guess Nashville IS "way up north" if you're from Texas, huh, Willie - er...Karen?
Karen stoops to new lows here. I thought it couldn't get any worse for you, Karen, but here we are...
-
New posters who immediately begin to post inappropriately are banned
Define "inappropriate" Jena. Anything contradictory? Bad for business? TRUE?
-
Just provide her with the appropriate citations and be done with it.
-
Just provide her with the appropriate citations and be done with it.
-
Just provide her with the appropriate citations and be done with it.
it's already been done. that has nothing to do with anything - it's just an excuse.
-
plus. look at the emails. in the SAME EMAIL she says "provide the cites" and then says "since you didn't provide the cites..."
IT'S THE SAME EMAIL! how in the heck can someone respond to an emial before it's even sent? ridiculous. she just made the ban happen b/c the poster had the goods and they will not allow it to be posted, period.
-
ST rejected me for the online I.D. I picked...RX_4_JESUS. They didn't like it.
-
If they even suspect you read or post over here, you'll be denied or banned immediately. They're not interested in open dialogue. All they want to do is sell programs.
-
I'll hand out citations to her...a citation for pig-headed thuggery...a citation for conspiring to commit child abuse and murder...
-
Could this person be "Mose"? From ST, where I go to stave off the pangs of appetite before lunch.
MOSES JOINS PACIFIC QUEST
(April 12, 2006) Suzanne McKinney, MA, Consultant Liaison, Pacific Quest, Hawaii, 808-937-5806, announced that Hilary Moses, MSW, LCSW, is the new Counseling Director. Moses spent the last four years working for SUWS Adolescent and Youth Programs, initially as a field instructor, then as a therapist, and most recently as Clinical Director.
-
I read a review of an interesting new book called "Shutting Out the Sun" by Michael Zielenziger. "Japan struggles to understand a dysfunctional generation" It is about Japanese youth who have "fallen off the conveyor belt" of society's expectations. They are called "hiki-komori" and live at home afraid to face the outside world. The book says the ostracism "often begins around middle-school age with bullying, shunning or vicious teasing by an adolescent clique. Parents and teachers usually take no action and may even blame the bullied child viewing it as the child's job to learn to adjust and fit in. If the child instead descends into seculsion and depression the response of the family is to keep up appearances by ignoring the outcast. IN some cases, direct communication ceases; meals are left on a tray at the bedroom door...."
This whole mindset is more than a "malaise" its a real dis-ease as parents are more at ease bowing to society rather than embracing their children. I should write to the dude and tell him that here we take our "hiki-komori" and jail and torture them until, by god, they conform. No hiding out at home with meals, tv etc. Nope its back on that old conveyor belt. I am sure its only a matter of time before the enterprising Japanese (or, more likely, a western investor) jumps on that bandwagon.
-
HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481
posted October 23, 2006 11:24 AM
My daughter took off last night and did not come
home. She left after I told her she could not go
out and she said that she was leaving for good. I
suspect she spent the night with a boy we did not
want her to see, given that he has a criminal
record. She called this morning to say she was
safe and with friends that I know (although she
would not tell me who) and she would come home
sometime today and did I still love her?
My cynical side says that she called to forestall
our calling the police and getting the guy into
trouble. She is still only 17 but we have been
dealing with her issues since she was 12. She has
started drinking a lot recently. She has been
drunk the four nights before last.
I did not sleep much last night. It was
reminiscent of the numerous other times she ran
away when she was 13 and the time she ran away
when she was 15. The last time she ran (at age 15)
she was attacked by a drug dealer and also was
dangerously intoxicated. So you can imagine what
scenarios my mind generated last night.
What to do now? She is still not out of high
school. She is attending an independent study
program now which does not provide a lot of
structure. She has applied for jobs but turned
down the only job offer she got because it was too
boring. My husband and I have decided to cut off
her money and sell her car. We cannot afford
another program (we have already paid for several
RTCs) and we are not sure we can have her live
with us without following our rules but we also do
not think we can give up and let her make her own
way. I do not think I can live with myself if she
is attacked again.
I got the name of a therapist for me this morning.
Just when I thought I had lived through all the
pain I could tolerate with her-- the pain is
rushing back in.
Posts: 77 | From: los angeles | Registered: Nov
2004 | Logged: 64.14.248.62 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
gee, you mean THE PROGRAM didn't work? who woulda thunk it?
-
Could this person be "Mose"? From ST, where I go to stave off the pangs of appetite before lunch.
MOSES JOINS PACIFIC QUEST
(April 12, 2006) Suzanne McKinney, MA, Consultant Liaison, Pacific Quest, Hawaii, 808-937-5806, announced that Hilary Moses, MSW, LCSW, is the new Counseling Director. Moses spent the last four years working for SUWS Adolescent and Youth Programs, initially as a field instructor, then as a therapist, and most recently as Clinical Director.
as of the 18th, mose ("the abortionist") was still posting from a new york city road runner node, so it's doubtful.
-
Ah, well. The way ST is, he's probably some cat who thinks he's the biblical Moses, laying commandments down on Fornits heathens.
-
If you knew the type of parent I'm dealing with, you would encourage the child to sue. This is all an ego trip, with the intention of destroying the one child who had the guts to stand up to him and say "no more". The child's reward was an abusive wilderness/boot camp. We have no intention of allowing the child to stay until she finishes the program just so she can sue. I can't give you all the details of what this demonic fuck parent has done, but it would shock even you.
It would not shock me: my daughter's demon fuck parent used, abused and then abandoned her. He had her kidnapped by two goons and sent off to CEDU at the age of 13 where she was thrown into the high school synanon shithole, not allowed to pee, kept awake, screamed at, called every filthy name in the book, pressured to "confess dirt", (she had none; she was very innocent, getting excellent grades, not doing anything at all worrisome like drinking, staying out past curfew etc...he was just pissed because she did not want to live with him because, well because he was a demonic fuck parent) made to listen to all manner of shocking crap. Since I am her bio-mom and had joint custody I was able to have her released but it took three weeks and the damage was very great. When she was released to me her father ceased contact with her for the next four years. She suffered severely for years, finally had a psychotic break because of it and was never the same. She heard voices from CEDU calling her stupid, whore etc., hallucinated (and NOT on drugs) visits from a friend of hers from CEDU who had died when she jumped out of a car. She struggled courageously for years but one day she just walked off into the woods and hanged herself. I have posted this several times here because I want to remind people that the damage done to kids can be soooooooooooo long lasting...of course a lot depends on their support system and what kind of crap they have to deal with when they get out. She was always trying to win her father's affection and approval even though she was angry with him but, like I said, he is a demonic fuck. Parent is a word he doesn't deserve. And I am not a just a bitter ex. I take full responsibility for any failure in our marraige and anything done to me just goes with the territory; you just take responsibilty, learn and move on but when someone fuck's with a child in order to hurt that child and the child's parent they are so far beneath contempt. He didn't even believe in it like these "Christian" torturers do; it was just a way to punish us. I will never stop regretting that I did not sue the shit out of all of them back then ( and had the kidnappers arrested) but I was overwhelmed with trying to help her and the custody case which took 6 months and included a suspeneded jail sentence for contempt (on his part) and had no money and lived amost 400 miles away. There is an unquenchable rage in my heart that not even the angry little emoticons can express.
I really hope you are successful in getting your child out; you sound like much more of a parent than the bios. Good luck.
-
I am so sorry. The horrors you mention strike close to home for us. Our child has always wanted the father's approval, but everything has to be precisely on his terms, or he unleashes a screaming, obscene tirade, usually fueled by a whole lot of alcohol.
Now we're fighting the same battle you went through. Every letter I get from the child makes my blood run cold. She's strong, I just hope she can remain strong long enough to get her out of the hell she's in and into some real therapy that doesn't involve a treatment team from the Josef Mengele institute.
Once again, I'm sorry about your daughter, I can't imagine the loss.
-
Thank you for your kind thoughts. If she knows you are fighting to get her out that should help her a lot. The hard part is going to be when she does get out, how brainwashed she was and dealing with PTSD. I know you have fewer rights as a "step" parent but I wish you prevail. Is there any hope of the court ordering a psychic eval on the sperm donor? I wasn't able to get one on mine although he is a text book narcissist; sounds like good old dad is more of a sociopath.
The loss is indecribable; she was such a great human being and I miss her so much. I am praying that your situation has a different ending. Hang in there and don't ever give up.
-
I meant "psych"; not psychic
-
Oh, God, I would pity the poor psychic who had to get into THAT head. That's a good idea, though.
We've given as much encouraging info as we can, but BM programs hate to hear a dissenting opinion. A child with hope of getting out is not easily broken down, and damn, that annoys the shit out of a programmer.
It's been mentioned jokingly on here, but tonight I wish I could fly up there and break her out. Your loss has made me think about...why we need to get her out with a quickness. We won't give up. Thanks.
-
Deleted
-
HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481
posted October 25, 2006 12:03 PM
My daughter came home on Monday and went out again
that evening with the same loser boy who
immediately demonstrated what a loser he is.
(spent the "date" on his cell phone trying to
seduce another girl. She responded by getting very
very drunk again. She came home and acknowledged
that she has a problem but she is scared to get
sober. Yesterday she said she would check herself
into a program but by last night she was backing
away from that.
After two years in programs, this kid still doesn't want to "conform" to mommy's ideals. The programs were utter failures, but that doesn't stop mommy from seeking advice from the same failure parents that steered her into the failure program in the first place. I never can understand that.
Well, Happy, she's still under 18, so it's ESCORT TIME, baby!
-
HappyTheyreAlive
Member
Member # 4481
posted October 25, 2006 12:03 PM
My daughter came home on Monday and went out again
that evening with the same loser boy who
immediately demonstrated what a loser he is.
(spent the "date" on his cell phone trying to
seduce another girl. She responded by getting very
very drunk again. She came home and acknowledged
that she has a problem but she is scared to get
sober. Yesterday she said she would check herself
into a program but by last night she was backing
away from that.
For KarenInDallas, this is called Tuesday. If every girl who picked the wrong guys and then had a few drinks afterwards were sent to a program, every female I've ever met would be sent away. This parent is raising a neurotic child to think these are emergencies.