Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 11, 2006, 07:20:35 AM
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Straight Inc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks)
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or just go to www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) and type in "Straight Inc."
This movie sucks!
Who made it?
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Firstly I think its a valiant attempt to express the idea of what the program was like emotionally, however abstract the creator felt they needed to be in order to get this point across....what we endured however, does not usually beg abstraction in order to get it. I found myself trying to understand the artists vision on a topic that I already clearly understood, but Im a survivor so my perspective is modifed to begin with.
In my opinion, a true artist is someone who can create a vision that triggers all different types of understanding, amoungst all different types of people. The viewer does not have to struggle to enter the mind of the artist to get his/her meaning, the artist creates an environment where the viewer can clearly see the point, however possibly in a new light or with new perception. So many people I have met who fancy themselves "creatives" are usually nothing more than hopelessly self absorbed and bent only on creating their own pain so that they might have something to "create" about. They think they need to change people, move them.....all the while missing the point entirely. I think art should be a vessel of understanding presented by the artist as an honor to the collective reality.....not a vain attempt at a creation of a new reality.
So whats with the tar baby?
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Straight Inc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks)
What? Wth is that? It's some horror flick; nothing to do w/ str8.
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Firstly I think its a valiant attempt to express the idea of what the program was like emotionally, however abstract the creator felt they needed to be in order to get this point across....what we endured however, does not usually beg abstraction in order to get it. I found myself trying to understand the artists vision on a topic that I already clearly understood, but Im a survivor so my perspective is modifed to begin with.
In my opinion, a true artist is someone who can create a vision that triggers all different types of understanding, amoungst all different types of people. The viewer does not have to struggle to enter the mind of the artist to get his/her meaning, the artist creates an environment where the viewer can clearly see the point, however possibly in a new light or with new perception. So many people I have met who fancy themselves "creatives" are usually nothing more than hopelessly self absorbed and bent only on creating their own pain so that they might have something to "create" about. They think they need to change people, move them.....all the while missing the point entirely. I think art should be a vessel of understanding presented by the artist as an honor to the collective reality.....not a vain attempt at a creation of a new reality.
So whats with the tar baby?
Very eloquently said. You should be a columnist....lol. Seriously, you'd be good at it instead of wasting your time and energy here. Anyway, I found it by typing in "Straight, Inc." The first link was bogus....
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Very eloquently said. You should be a columnist....lol. Seriously, you'd be good at it instead of wasting your time and energy here. Anyway, I found it by typing in "Straight, Inc." The first link was bogus....
Damn Frank, what's with you today? Who says she's wasting her time and energy?
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Give me Bingo anyday!!
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Very eloquently said. You should be a columnist....lol. Seriously, you'd be good at it instead of wasting your time and energy here. Anyway, I found it by typing in "Straight, Inc." The first link was bogus....
Damn Frank, what's with you today? Who says she's wasting her time and energy?
That wasn't meant as a 'finger pointing' kind of remark... we all waste time here now and then, don't we? You'd think we'd have better things to do with our time.. or I guess you could look at it as she's honing her writing skills...whatever.
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Very eloquently said. You should be a columnist....lol. Seriously, you'd be good at it instead of wasting your time and energy here. Anyway, I found it by typing in "Straight, Inc." The first link was bogus....
Damn Frank, what's with you today? Who says she's wasting her time and energy?
That wasn't meant as a 'finger pointing' kind of remark... we all waste time here now and then, don't we? You'd think we'd have better things to do with our time.. or I guess you could look at it as she's honing her writing skills...whatever.
Yes, nice attempt, but Bingo.......now that is the freakest movie I have ever seen. Bingo has Straight Inc written all over it.
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Yeah that was a good one!
"Bingo the clown-o"
Creepy...
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http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/bingo.ram (http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/bingo.ram)
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good idea. Not sure the finished product conveyed the message it intended...admittedly a hard message to project. The film seemed to convey a horror genre version of Straight, Inc. While some people would describe it like that, I dont' think the casual observer will make the connection to the treatment modality.
Bingo, while not fessing up to be about the program, nails it, and nails it down hard. I think other people who watch it can get it also.
Vive la Bingo!
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I agree. To an outsider it would be hard to grasp but to anyone who's been in any of the TBS type facilities from Straight on up to today, the message behind Bingo is very clear. Although I like the other one and can appreciate the thought process behind it, I had to work to see it. It was immediately evident with Bingo.
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The fuck ya'll talkin'bout ??... not sure I wanna know...
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Straight Inc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks)
Can't find. Is it under"VIDEOS" ?
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I want to convey my apologies to the author of the video. I think it was a good production and obviously the person responsible put a lot of work and effort into it.
That it attempts to artistically portray a message that only "insiders" can get should not be the subject of our intensive scrutiny and hyper critical comments.
Thanks for your time, effort and obvious talent. My comments before should have been tempered with more understanding of what you did instead of a comparison with another video.
Whoever you are, you are good at what you do.
BTW, here is a corrected link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZ0Qqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZ0Qqks)
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I want to convey my apologies to the author of the video. I think it was a good production and obviously the person responsible put a lot of work and effort into it.
That it attempts to artistically portray a message that only "insiders" can get should not be the subject of our intensive scrutiny and hyper critical comments.
Thanks I did a searh.
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It was touching to me.
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Firstly I think its a valiant attempt to express the idea of what the program was like emotionally, however abstract the creator felt they needed to be in order to get this point across....what we endured however, does not usually beg abstraction in order to get it. I found myself trying to understand the artists vision on a topic that I already clearly understood, but Im a survivor so my perspective is modifed to begin with.
In my opinion, a true artist is someone who can create a vision that triggers all different types of understanding, amoungst all different types of people. The viewer does not have to struggle to enter the mind of the artist to get his/her meaning, the artist creates an environment where the viewer can clearly see the point, however possibly in a new light or with new perception. So many people I have met who fancy themselves "creatives" are usually nothing more than hopelessly self absorbed and bent only on creating their own pain so that they might have something to "create" about. They think they need to change people, move them.....all the while missing the point entirely. I think art should be a vessel of understanding presented by the artist as an honor to the collective reality.....not a vain attempt at a creation of a new reality.
So whats with the tar baby?
In other words,you dont know who made it,but you know why it shouldn't suck.
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It was touching to me.
Yes well,you would.
Bingo always likes a warm hand on his opening.
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or just go to www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) and type in "Straight Inc."
This movie sucks!
Who made it?
That is the ACTUAL FOOTAGE of Samantha "Did you see me on Montel" Monroe,getting it rammed between her humble pants by a kind staff member.
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or just go to www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) and type in "Straight Inc."
This movie sucks!
Who made it?
That is the ACTUAL FOOTAGE of Samantha "Did you see me on Montel" Monroe,getting it rammed between her humble pants by a kind staff member.
Thats prime stuff,I have to admit.
Fine job.
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It was touching to me.
Yes well,you would.
Bingo always likes a warm hand on his opening.
Reminded me a little bit of Jan Svankmajer's films.
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I took a film class at the University of North Texas and the instructor hammered us on symbolism.
The symbolism I saw here was:
the setting is dirty and unsanitary like straight.
the closed door representing straight secrets behind closed doors.
The little doll that couldn't speak had no personality, just a molded shell of a body that was picked up and comforted by a giant and than smashed into peices.
I liked the news clippings.
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I took a film class at the University of North Texas and the instructor hammered us on symbolism.
The symbolism I saw here was:
the setting is dirty and unsanitary like straight.
the closed door representing straight secrets behind closed doors.
The little doll that couldn't speak had no personality, just a molded shell of a body that was picked up and comforted by a giant and than smashed into peices.
I liked the news clippings.
But worthless for educational purposes.
Anyone who has never been in Straightlike Program would not get it.
Only people who already know what the program is like may relate to that movie.
Worthless crap.
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Maybe it was made for survivors.. It's just a little short film. It is impossible to appeal to everyone and we all face criticism.
Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
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Maybe it was made for survivors.. It's just a little short film. It is impossible to appeal to everyone and we all face criticism.
Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
My My. I find myself in the awkward position of actually agreeing with ReaganYouth.
:rofl:
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
Yep, and Clockwork Orange is another.
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Maybe it was made for survivors.. It's just a little short film.
I
Ah,just what I have been craving.
No Haagen Daas Cherries Garcia for me!
All I want is some grainy video of someone smashing a twisted dusty little Straight doll.
Ah,that takes me back.
I can almost TASTE Sammie's humble pants now!
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Sammie has been pretty humble with all the insults written about her on here. Her continued involvement shows a lot of strength and dedication.
It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
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It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
Would you do her? :D
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Yeah, and I bet you would, too.
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Sammie has been pretty humble with all the insults written about her on here. Her continued involvement shows a lot of strength and dedication.
It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
:tup:
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I get chubbed over women dressed like pirates. :D
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:rofl:
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
That movie was based off of your book that you wrote to promote the opening of Straight, Inc. and condition your target audience, you crook!
No wonder you feel the need to mention it. ::puke::
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
That movie was based off of your book that you wrote to promote the opening of Straight, Inc. and condition your target audience, you crook!
No wonder you feel the need to mention it. ::puke::
More like it was written to take credit for ideas that straight stole from Art Barker. By the time Newton Wrote his book, this stuff was old hat.
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Sammie has been pretty humble with all the insults written about her on here. Her continued involvement shows a lot of strength and dedication.
It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
I bet she made one hell of a misbehavor
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It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
Would you do her? :D
I wouldn't fuck Samantha "Montel" Monroe with a STOLEN dick!
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
That movie was based off of your book that you wrote to promote the opening of Straight, Inc. and condition your target audience, you crook!
No wonder you feel the need to mention it. ::puke::
Cant find "Not My Kid" video on youtube.com.
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Hopefully there will be more lenghty educational films that everyone can understand in the future.
There are already educational films about Straight that people can understand... "Not My Kid" is one of them.
That movie was based off of your book that you wrote to promote the opening of Straight, Inc. and condition your target audience, you crook!
No wonder you feel the need to mention it. ::puke::
More like it was written to take credit for ideas that straight stole from Art Barker. By the time Newton Wrote his book, this stuff was old hat.
True, but it was still a conditioning and promotional movie for Straight, Inc.
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Cant find "Not My Kid" video on youtube.com.
That's because it's not a youtube movie.
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More like it was written to take credit for ideas that straight stole from Art Barker. By the time Newton Wrote his book, this stuff was old hat.
True, but it was still a conditioning and promotional movie for Straight, Inc.
Both are good points. Miller took what he could from Art and the Seed and then put is own sadistic little twists on it.
That movie came on one afternoon about 10 or 12 years ago. Creeped me out and cracked me up at the same time.
Does anyone know how to get ahold of a copy of the 60 Minutes piece that was done in the early 80s? Unfortunately my dad worked with Virgil and Beth Polson on that. He wasn't allowed to go on camera because he worked for the St. Pete Times. I'm dying to see it again. I haven't seen it since just after I got out.
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I remember seeing that movie as an after school special, and then being sent to Straight later on I remember thinking my first day, "Oh my God, this is that movie!" It was a horrific realization...
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Straight Inc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZOQqks)
Can't find. Is it under"VIDEOS" ?
Try this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZ0Qqks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3566FZ0Qqks)
If that doesn't work, go to search at top and type in Straight, inc. It should be the first video
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Damn, that must have been strange. I knew all about Straight before I went in. Some of my friends had broken one of their girlfriends out about a year before I went in. She was a big, strong girl and the horror stories she told freaked all of us out. As soon as we pulled into the parking lot and I realized where I was my heart sank. I knew what I was in for and I was scared shitless.
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Damn, that must have been strange. I knew all about Straight before I went in. Some of my friends had broken one of their girlfriends out about a year before I went in. She was a big, strong girl and the horror stories she told freaked all of us out. As soon as we pulled into the parking lot and I realized where I was my heart sank. I knew what I was in for and I was scared shitless.
I was kidnapped by two thugs to be taken to Straight. I had already been in one residential for 18 months prior and a psyche ward in between. I fought the entire time. Probably the worst day of my life besides losing my first husband in a car accident...
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More like it was written to take credit for ideas that straight stole from Art Barker. By the time Newton Wrote his book, this stuff was old hat.
True, but it was still a conditioning and promotional movie for Straight, Inc.
Both are good points. Miller took what he could from Art and the Seed and then put is own sadistic little twists on it.
That movie came on one afternoon about 10 or 12 years ago. Creeped me .
Don't give Miller too much credit. He wasn't even around at the beginning of Straight. He was just another Straight Parent, hired because of his degree to try to lend some veil of legitimacy to the program due to his degree.
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I always feel a pang of envy when I think about misbehavers and fighting. I wish I had, but back then I was so timid and scared of everyone and everything. Came from living with a controlling, domineering father. I just felt so trapped. I knew what Straight was about, I knew there was no way in hell that my dad would ever give up or admit he made a mistake. I knew I was fucked. I ended up on first phase for 8 months, the first time, because I wouldn't admit to any drug use beyond pot and drinking. That's all I had done but there was a staff member there that went to the same school as me. He told everyone that he knew I had done cocaine and a few other drugs. I hadn't even seen it yet. Of course I finally did "admit" what they wanted to hear. After that it was all over. I knew they had won.
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I don't think anyone here is trying to give Miller credit. He was a tool. It may not have even been his writing... That movie was a marketing tool for the program. A 1 hour and 37 minute commercial for Straight.
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I always feel a pang of envy when I think about misbehavers and fighting. I wish I had, but back then I was so timid and scared of everyone and everything. Came from living with a controlling, domineering father. I just felt so trapped. I knew what Straight was about, I knew there was no way in hell that my dad would ever give up or admit he made a mistake. I knew I was fucked. I ended up on first phase for 8 months, the first time, because I wouldn't admit to any drug use beyond pot and drinking. That's all I had done but there was a staff member there that went to the same school as me. He told everyone that he knew I had done cocaine and a few other drugs. I hadn't even seen it yet. Of course I finally did "admit" what they wanted to hear. After that it was all over. I knew they had won.
I didn't fight after my first day. I knew I had to submit or suffer longer. I was honest throughout my entire program and still got confronted for being "FOS." I was there for another 18-20 months...
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Don't give Miller too much credit. He wasn't even around at the beginning of Straight. He was just another Straight Parent, hired because of his degree to try to lend some veil of legitimacy to the program due to his degree.
I hear ya, but Newton did put his own spin on it and it was pretty fucking sadistic. Fucker enjoyed the control and it just fed his messiah complex. You're right though, he did take credit for what Art had built. You should read Agent Orange's section on Seed, Straight, Art, Miller, Mel and the whole industry. He just rips 'em to shreds. Plus the hate mail he gets is funny as all hell.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html)
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The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.
)))==========={:tup:
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It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
Would you do her? :D
I wouldn't fuck Samantha "Montel" Monroe with a STOLEN dick!
"cause you keep all the dicks you steal in your mouth.
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It's kinda funny how the harder people try to make her look bad, the better she looks.
Would you do her? :D
I wouldn't fuck Samantha "Montel" Monroe with a STOLEN dick!
"cause you keep all the dicks you steal in your mouth.
:rofl:
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I don't think anyone here is trying to give Miller credit. He was a tool. It may not have even been his writing... That movie was a marketing tool for the program. A 1 hour and 37 minute commercial for Straight.
I meant in the context of giving him any credence to his claims of developing any treatment model whatsover. The whole damn thing was plagarized. He only added his own brand of assholery to it, as countless other copycat programs have done.
Miller tried to take credit for Straight's treatment modality, which was lifted verbatim from the Seed. The entire modality from the 7 steps to the raps, the foster parent system, to the guards at the gate to the placement of the chairs, the posters on the walls, the oldcomer/necomer dynamic, senior/junior staff, moral inventories, permission to pee, motivating, Going home, confessionalls, seperating the sexes, isolation from outsiders, serenity prayer, love raps, confrontation raps, refreshers and starting over...all this and much more we all just zeroxed from the Seed. Miller added a couple of trite little things that didn't change a thing in the overall context of what was occuring and then wrote a book that seems to take credit for the whole damn thing.
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I do remember that Greg. I remember him having a conversation with my dad about that around the time of the 60 Minutes thing. Going on and on about "his" revolutionary treatment for kids.
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I don't think anyone here is trying to give Miller credit. He was a tool. It may not have even been his writing... That movie was a marketing tool for the program. A 1 hour and 37 minute commercial for Straight.
I meant in the context of giving him any credence to his claims of developing any treatment model whatsover. The whole damn thing was plagarized. He only added his own brand of assholery to it, as countless other copycat programs have done.
Miller tried to take credit for Straight's treatment modality, which was lifted verbatim from the Seed. The entire modality from the 7 steps to the raps, the foster parent system, to the guards at the gate to the placement of the chairs, the posters on the walls, the oldcomer/necomer dynamic, senior/junior staff, moral inventories, permission to pee, motivating, Going home, confessionalls, seperating the sexes, isolation from outsiders, serenity prayer, love raps, confrontation raps, refreshers and starting over...all this and much more we all just zeroxed from the Seed. Miller added a couple of trite little things that didn't change a thing in the overall context of what was occuring and then wrote a book that seems to take credit for the whole damn thing.
Well, he is a megalomaniac.
So where did Werner Erhard steal his material from? EST is Discovery which is almost a carbon copy of the Straight/Seed model as well. Didn't all this brainwashing and stripping of rights and identity stem from the Zen master approach used by the Chinese communists during the Korean War on their POWs?
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I don't really think so. Even tho some of the techniques are similar, I think the techniques have more in common with a kind of weird mixture of AA doctrine with Moonie recruiting methods...mixed in with an involuntary setting.
If you are looking for the absolute genesis for the idea to form the Seed, then perhaps we will never *know*, we only have Aert's self serving accounts which to me seem rather suspect and loose with the truth. What we do know is that Art Barker was an AA devotee, started a drug rehab that was went from being an open door voluntary rehab, to quickly admitting 1000s of kids with the governments help and incorporating the involuntary aspects. During this time he was developing a messiah complex. All of the techniques of the seed seemed to come on rather rapidly. Soon, the seed stopped getting federal funding and it eventually reverted back to a kind of creepy rehab cult.
We cannot Tie the roots to chinese/korean torture institutes. we can only comment that some of the techniques seem lifted from there. NOr can we tie (at least not yet) it to the synanon, only comment about the creepy similarities. We can draw the conclusion that the synanon and the Seed were both started by AA people.
This is all I can really tell you, after years of researching it, on where it *comes* from. I think looking back at the influence of the Federal government and the rapid change in the modality, and the connection of Dupont to the Synanon, we can draw some inferences, but direct tangible evidence does not exist that connects the Seed any further back than itself. At least none that I have been shown. All the evidence is indirect. I am personally convinced, but can't substantiate it, that along with the federal funding of the seed came some Conditions and consultants in the form of several seed staff members from a synanon offshoot program.
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Then how do we explain the WWASPS/Discovery seminars and the Straight/Seed/Synanon model being so similar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon)
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Then how do we explain the WWASPS/Discovery seminars and the Straight/Seed/Synanon model being so similar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon)
I think my point was is that we Cannot *explain* it currently on an evidenciary basis, we can only draw conclusions based on indirect evidence.
Unless you know something I don't know, no direct correlation between the Seed and earlier programs exists except some suppositions about Dupont influencing Art Barker. Will this is entirely likely, it has not been established by direct evidence. Further, other AA cults have sprung up with similar results to synanon independent of a direct link like Jim Jone's little cool aide cult, and the commonality of brainwashing and behavior modification techniques thruout all cults further muddy the water.
However, WWasp and the Seed both CLEARLY had common techniques that CLEARLY orginated in Synanon. The difference is WWASP can be Directly linked to the Synanon, and all the efforts to link Art Barker to the Synanon have failed to date, except for the indirect assumptions we can make about Art Barker, Robert Dupont, federal funding and the rise of the Seed cult in 1973. As I explained earlier, I have my theories but they remain just that, theories.
Fascinating stuff to me and others no doubt and I wish I could make that direct connection we ex-program inductees assume is there.
I wish you could understand the hours and hours people like wes Fager, Ginger, Bradbury, Kathy, myself and others have poured over documents, gone to local and national libraries and have not come up with the smoking gun.
If someone else can come up with it, you will earn my eternal gratitude and respect because I have been unable to date to establish the direct link, as have all others that I know of.
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If someone else can come up with it, you will earn my eternal gratitude and respect because I have been unable to date to establish the direct link, as have all others that I know of.
One thing is certain & that is that there is possibly a link between them. If I happen to find out I'll be sure to let you know.
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Thanks for your post, Greg. I appreciate all the time you've spent discussing this subject.
I wish you could understand the hours and hours people like wes Fager, Ginger, Bradbury, Kathy, myself and others have poured over documents, gone to local and national libraries and have not come up with the smoking gun.
I'm not sure why you think I couldn't comprehend this. All I know is that I experienced both sides of the coin at the same time in my life and do not rule out the matter going deeper than just all stemming from Synanon. I have also spent a few years (and countless hours) reading, researching and being an activist, just like all of us survivors who have tried to take our experiences and make a difference with it.
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And thank for the conversation as well. When I said "I wish you could comprehend" I didn't mean to insinuate you couldn't. It was just sloppy language on my part. Please accept my apology.
I do not rule out the possiblity of the link being made either, I just have failed to date to make it as have others. If, during your research you ever do come across 'the smoking gun', that will be a day of extreme interest for me.
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I will most certainly keep you in mind. :wink:
Thanks again, take care.
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And thank for the conversation as well. When I said "I wish you could comprehend" I didn't mean to insinuate you couldn't. It was just sloppy language on my part. Please accept my apology.
I do not rule out the possiblity of the link being made either, I just have failed to date to make it as have others. If, during your research you ever do come across 'the smoking gun', that will be a day of extreme interest for me.
Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair from the Straight Sarasota program?
We were newcommers together.
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Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair from the Straight Sarasota program?
We were newcommers together.
Call Mr. Lee
Tell him the code is broken.
Tell him the dog is turning red.
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Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair
No.
The bird flies at noon. Call the Meister.
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:idea: http://www.john-hanley-sr.com/ (http://www.john-hanley-sr.com/) :-? check out the interview with this dude... it maybe just a part of a clue, maybe more to it somewhere somehow, still looking for more info. Don't give up.
Cheers!
8)
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Yes, Very interesting.
This Dr. Fletcher character deserves some consideration. Not much comes up on a google search, but this lifespring fanatic claims he started in 1971 and that the works of Dr. Fletcher with americans returning from the Korean war helped inspire him.
Good stuff. Still, I don't see how it would tie The seed to the synanon, but it certainly could establish a link between lifespring, the techniques used at lifespring and the government, and also perhaps some link to Korean war and the 'treatment' of returning soldiers.
This would require someone to put in some work on researching Dr. Fletcher and the Dept of education.
Thanks for the link. You have sparked my interest. I am somewhat ignorant on Lifespring, but from what I read it appears to be an EST style cult. Is this wrong?
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Lifespring essentially is EST. John Hanley took what he learned from Werner Erhard and founded Lifespring.
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Great history provided by Lon Woodbury and strugglingteens.com. Ha. Kinda scary that I went through both EST and Salesmanship Club... and then Straight, Inc.
"However, the 1960s and 1970s saw a tremendous surge of innovative ideas and new approaches for these teens. Synanon, Daytop, Elan, DeSisto, EST, boy?s ranches, LifeSpring, the Dallas Salesmanship Club, wilderness adventure, back-to-nature communities and many other innovative approaches proliferated, challenging the system of predictability then in vogue. The founders of those facilities that were focused on struggling teens developed philosophies and approaches they thought would better meet these children?s needs because they felt the standard approach to helping teens who were making poor decisions did not help many of them. One of the most influential approaches to the network of emotional growth/therapeutic schools and programs was Mel Wasserman?s CEDU School, founded in 1967."
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ation.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2004/9/innovation.html)
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CEDU is a direct Synanon spin off.
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I didn't know that, thanks Greg.
Here's Wikipedia's info on Lifespring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring)
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I didn't know that, thanks Greg.
Here's Wikipedia's info on Lifespring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring)
Here ya go.
?I met Mel in San Francisco several years before he started CEDU, while I was working for Synanon, a drug rehabilitation center,? Bill said."
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5144.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5144.shtml)
CEDU used to have this history right on their own website. All of these places used, at their core, the same basic tenants of mind control. This isn't a surprise since most of them can be traced back to the synanon. The big mystery is how it got from the synanon to The Seed.
Again, I have my theory but I can't confirm it with any tangible evidence. One particular "Rap" sticks out in my mind tho, from the time I was in the St. Pete Seed. Keep in mind that the Seed was all pretty much pasty white teenagers from the Suburbs. Then we had several staff members that clearly fit into the category of "not belonging".
One in particular was in his mid twenties and very New Yorker in style and speech and an ex-junkie. Junkies in the seed were rare as virgins in 'da club', if you follow me. Anyway, one day he was just going off, saying "you guys don't even know where this shit comes from. It comes from _____, okay? This shit all come from ________, and you guys are lucky to be here. It is much harder at _____blah blah blah". And he mentioned some rehab from up north. This has Nawed at my crawl for years.
I think, perhaps, that when Art Barker got the funding from Dupont that it was conditional, and he also got this guy and maybe one or two more, and they helped him set up a synanon style rehab. The government, at the time was actively sponsoring synanon spinoffs throut the country.
Now you have my theory. It really has no real explanatory power over my speculation based on my experience, but I believe it to be true, based on my faulty memory and what I know about synanon spinoff programs and the rise and fall of the Seed, and also the introduction of the synanon "style" into the Seed.
I would also tell you that generally, Ginger agrees with this assessment. We have no "proof" or "smoking Gun" to back it up, however.
I hope this helps.
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Every bit of information helps to get closer to understanding what we all went through. Much appreciated, thanks!
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One time, years and years after the seed, my wife (now ex) went into a shopping center and I milled about outside. I leaned up against the building and I could hear someone speaking, and people talking in response. Okay, kind of weird. Then they started singing I could swear a seed song, and then again the talking. I tried to peer thru the window but it was sealed tight and I couldn't hear what they were saying.
Peaked of curiosity, I went to the door. The meeting was set up just like a seed meeting, two rows of chairs seperated by a walkway and speaker up front, and the people were all excited and waving their hands to speak. When they got called on, they stood up and talked in an excited urgent manner.
I was dumfounded. My wife strolled out and over to me and asked me what I was doing, and I couldn't explain it to her, only that the people were acting weird inside.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Turned out to be an amway meeting.
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A few years ago I was working as a salesman for a company that sold copiers and fax machines. One of my customers was a Mormon church, and before closing the deal I had to endure about an hour of attempts to convert me to their religion. After it became pretty clear that I wasn't buying, the church guy in charge of buying office equipment started in on his Amway sales pitch. To add insult to injury, they didn't buy the machine I had demonstrated. Of course, when they came calling back a couple of weeks later, I wasn't able to get them quite as good a deal as I was able to offer them previously........
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One time, years and years after the seed, my wife (now ex) went into a shopping center and I milled about outside. I leaned up against the building and I could hear someone speaking, and people talking in response. Okay, kind of weird. Then they started singing I could swear a seed song, and then again the talking. I tried to peer thru the window but it was sealed tight and I couldn't hear what they were saying.
Peaked of curiosity, I went to the door. The meeting was set up just like a seed meeting, two rows of chairs seperated by a walkway and speaker up front, and the people were all excited and waving their hands to speak. When they got called on, they stood up and talked in an excited urgent manner.
I was dumfounded. My wife strolled out and over to me and asked me what I was doing, and I couldn't explain it to her, only that the people were acting weird inside.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Turned out to be an amway meeting.
Hahaha... :D I was invited to a Mary Kay meeting. I got the heebies and left. I had to apologize to my sister-in-law who didn't understand since all I did was arrive, walk in and turn around and leave.
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:o http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm (http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm) :o
just some general history, links, etc... wwasp etc... seminars ,est, all that mindraping rigamarole, gotta be hooked up. just need more specifics, like a jigsaw puzzle. It may be possible that some of these folks met each other in places, talked off the record, etc etc. you know, not something easily researched unless you talk to the folks themselves, a rather daunting task. take that gilcrease dude for instance, he's the wwasp seminar leader, associated with hanley, makes sense it's all hooked up. check out the 'friends of the kennedy's' connections to sembler... that might lead somewhere too. one of the names there is robert a.g. monks- sembler donated money to monks's campaigns when he was running for office and monks knows all about straight inc and a son was in start up synanon, and monks has a place in FL. creepy :-?
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Well, Sembler is a dead end because we know where he got 'connected' into the machine. It was thru his son, in 1973, at the Morgan yacht building- Seed.
That is where it all started for Sembler and where the idea for Straight came from, and where all the original straight people came from. No mystery here.
The remaining peg in the puzzle is The Seed connection to the synanon or some synanon spinoff like Daytop. I think my theory has merit, but again...no one *knows* the way we would like to know.
Once that is solved, it would be nice to connect the synanon to some sinister government program, would it not?
we can dream, can't we?
:lol:
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Well, Sembler is a dead end because we know where he got 'connected' into the machine. It was thru his son, in 1973, at the Morgan yacht building- Seed.
That is where it all started for Sembler and where the idea for Straight came from, and where all the original straight people came from. No mystery here.
The remaining peg in the puzzle is The Seed connection to the synanon or some synanon spinoff like Daytop. I think my theory has merit, but again...no one *knows* the way we would like to know.
Once that is solved, it would be nice to connect the synanon to some sinister government program, would it not?
we can dream, can't we?
:lol:
Experiminting on children is not so sinister.
You should look in to the history of research centers.Children with chronic illinesses and no money were often sent to research centers for free treatment in exchange for being used as lab rats.
Thats what all this program crap is about and why you cant touch these people.It was all experimental and they were trying to help you.
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It was all experimental and they were trying to help you.
And they did a very good job, too.
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There is a government connection to the Synanon. Around this time last year I was living in Colorado with a guy from Comton, CA that was in a gang called "the Bloods" out there.
One night I started talking about Straight and he said he went through a weird mind fuck program called the Sinanon. I realizied he was talking about Synanon, the y in the spelling had me previously thinking a different pronouncation.
His story was; while he was in a California prison the government started an experiment to try and rehabilitate criminals. The inmates were selected on a most likely to succeed basis and they had to agree to participate in the experiment being Synanon. He was selected and went.
He seemed very two sided about the whole thing. On one hand he shook his head about the brainwashing and mental mind control freaky shit. On the other he said it was a great program and the best thing that ever happened to him. He lived with some program founders and worked for them as a cook for a while after the program.
I can't remember much of the details right now. But I did write down some of the names and stuff he told me. I always kept a notebook with me up in Colorado bacause of the idea surge I was going through. And I wrote those ideas down because of how all those ideas were coming in. Good thinking, but hard to memorize.
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:o http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm (http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm) :o
just some general history, links, etc... wwasp etc... seminars ,est, all that mindraping rigamarole, gotta be hooked up. just need more specifics, like a jigsaw puzzle. It may be possible that some of these folks met each other in places, talked off the record, etc etc. you know, not something easily researched unless you talk to the folks themselves, a rather daunting task. take that gilcrease dude for instance, he's the wwasp seminar leader, associated with hanley, makes sense it's all hooked up. check out the 'friends of the kennedy's' connections to sembler... that might lead somewhere too. one of the names there is robert a.g. monks- sembler donated money to monks's campaigns when he was running for office and monks knows all about straight inc and a son was in start up synanon, and monks has a place in FL. creepy :-?
Thanks!!! :tup:
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There is a government connection to the Synanon. Around this time last year I was living in Colorado with a guy from Comton, CA that was in a gang called "the Bloods" out there.
One night I started talking about Straight and he said he went through a weird mind fuck program called the Sinanon. I realizied he was talking about Synanon, the y in the spelling had me previously thinking a different pronouncation.
His story was; while he was in a California prison the government started an experiment to try and rehabilitate criminals. The inmates were selected on a most likely to succeed basis and they had to agree to participate in the experiment being Synanon. He was selected and went.
He seemed very two sided about the whole thing. On one hand he shook his head about the brainwashing and mental mind control freaky shit. On the other he said it was a great program and the best thing that ever happened to him. He lived with some program founders and worked for them as a cook for a while after the program.
I can't remember much of the details right now. But I did write down some of the names and stuff he told me. I always kept a notebook with me up in Colorado bacause of the idea surge I was going through. And I wrote those ideas down because of how all those ideas were coming in. Good thinking, but hard to memorize.
Just like A Clockwork Orange!
Damn!!!
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I watched V for Vendetta the other day finally. I was kind of shocked at how I reacted to the part where shes "detained" and tortured in the mock set-up that V created to help her understand what his brand of freedom and fearlessness really meant.
At the end of it, when she says that shed rather be taken out and shot than cooperate......I actually fell into tears. My husband thought I had lost my mind, but I tried to explain to him, however unsuccessfully, that I understood EXACTLY how she felt at that moment. To lose fear and accept the possibility of death as a viable option......thats exactly the choice I was forced to make when I decided that it may be my only alternative in leaving the program. I knew what it really truly meant to actually feel what was only being portrayed philisophically on the screen. It shocked the crap out of me, I wasnt prepared for it. I wanted to jump up and yell, shes right! hes right! they are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Its not just an idea, or a concept....its an actual state of being that exists within us all, and unfortunately....becomes tangible all too often.
I find it hopelessly ironic that I am here sharing my deepest personal emotions about losing fear of death, all because I was awoken in the night by several horrid roaches scuttling around, and actually in, my bed.....Id rather die than get anywhere near my bed right now. Ive killed one, and the other bastard is still at large. For some reason theve been turning up in my bed this summer.....its horrendous. Summer in the South for ya, I Gar-ON-tee. Theyve been particularly prolific and uncharacteristically cozy this year. Trashy fuckers. :flame:
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I had wondered if any other survivors go thtst reaction upon seeing that scene, I know I did, it ws kind of weird, but yeah, I felt that way, too.
Good luck annnihilating the insects.....
Yer pal,
rtp2k3
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I watched V for Vendetta the other day finally. I was kind of shocked at how I reacted to the part where shes "detained" and tortured in the mock set-up that V created to help her understand what his brand of freedom and fearlessness really meant.
At the end of it, when she says that shed rather be taken out and shot than cooperate......I actually fell into tears. My husband thought I had lost my mind, but I tried to explain to him, however unsuccessfully, that I understood EXACTLY how she felt at that moment. To lose fear and accept the possibility of death as a viable option......thats exactly the choice I was forced to make when I decided that it may be my only alternative in leaving the program. I knew what it really truly meant to actually feel what was only being portrayed philisophically on the screen. It shocked the crap out of me, I wasnt prepared for it. I wanted to jump up and yell, shes right! hes right! they are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Its not just an idea, or a concept....its an actual state of being that exists within us all, and unfortunately....becomes tangible all too often.
I find it hopelessly ironic that I am here sharing my deepest personal emotions about losing fear of death, all because I was awoken in the night by several horrid roaches scuttling around, and actually in, my bed.....Id rather die than get anywhere near my bed right now. Ive killed one, and the other bastard is still at large. For some reason theve been turning up in my bed this summer.....its horrendous. Summer in the South for ya, I Gar-ON-tee. Theyve been particularly prolific and uncharacteristically cozy this year. Trashy fuckers. :flame:
Theres no excuse for the cockroaches except thay you are a dirty person and your house stinks.
If you insist on living in a filthy house,at least you could buy a mosquito net,hang it over your bed and tuck the edges under the matress when you sleep.
I had a dirty filty disgusting person like you living in my house,and after I threw them out,I bought some 409 and scrubbed the filth away,and the cockroaches never returned.
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The fuck ya'll talkin'bout ??... not sure I wanna know...
We r
speakin of T.B.I'S (((LOL)))
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You must be right....Im sure youve never found a bug in your house before. You see, there IS an excuse for cockroaches.....its called THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. And unfortunately, if you live in this region, you dont have to be dirty to encounter them in your home. Its the swamp, Mr. Orkin Man.
The need to uselessly insult someone however, is something that there really is no excuse for. :roll:
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You must be right....Im sure youve never found a bug in your house before. You see, there IS an excuse for cockroaches.....its called THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. And unfortunately, if you live in this region, you dont have to be dirty to encounter them in your home. Its the swamp, Mr. Orkin Man.
The need to uselessly insult someone however, is something that there really is no excuse for. :roll:
Don't sweat it, they were just trying to get your goat. Btw, does your goat have fleas? :lol: J/k.
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You must be right....Im sure youve never found a bug in your house before. You see, there IS an excuse for cockroaches.....its called THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. And unfortunately, if you live in this region, you dont have to be dirty to encounter them in your home. Its the swamp, Mr. Orkin Man.
The need to uselessly insult someone however, is something that there really is no excuse for. :roll:
You are GUILTY!
You feel "insulted" because somebody told you the truth.You have a dirty house.
DUH!I also live in Florida,with millions of other people who dont have cockroaches crawling on the bed.
Just clean the house and the cockroaches will go away.
No need for the Orkin Man or any bug spray.
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That is one stupid ass clip.
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That is one stupid ass clip.
I agree.
Almost as damaging to our cause as Sammie "Did you see me on Montel" Monroe's drama queen TV interview on the Montel show.
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Did Montel ever get a blowjob outta that? :D
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Did Montel ever get a blowjob outta that? :D
Montel wouldn't fuck Sammie,even with a STOLEN dick!
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Did Montel ever get a blowjob outta that? :D
Montel wouldn't fuck Sammie,even with a STOLEN dick!
You know this because Montel stole your dick? Or does he fuck you with stolen dicks? Or do you just give him head? Inquiring minds want to know........
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And you're helping soooo much! :roll:
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Oooo.....burn! :D
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ya'd think people would grow up by now! Hey, Sammie Slammer? WTF have you done about the problem?
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
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What problem?
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And you're helping soooo much! :roll:
You are one of the "good ones",so make sure you dont stand too close to Sherman and his cronies.I wouldnt want you to get any of his infected brain matter on your nice shirt.
Why do you allign yourself with shitheads like Sherman?
You show your face here,and you offer sincere advise,unlike Sherman and Co.
Mike Sherman and Chris Tyler are real creeps.
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This is a real winner:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... c%22&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8451806652332732839&q=%22straight+inc%22&hl=en)
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Was this the movie with the doll that gets smashed up by the man who walks up the stairs? The clip isn't there anymore. I would like to know who made that movie and I would like to see it again.
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No, it was not that one; that one wasn't bad.
It was a shitty one, trust me. I was being sarcastic when I said that it was a real winner.
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Well where is that one?
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I loved it better than Bingo. I totally got it. Thanks.
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I loved it better than Bingo. I totally got it. Thanks.
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Cant find "Not My Kid" video on youtube.com.
That's because it's not a youtube movie.
http://www.amazon.com/Not-My-Kid-Michae ... B00000FCZK (http://www.amazon.com/Not-My-Kid-Michael-Tuchner/dp/B00000FCZK)
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Wow, I didn't know it costarred noted Scientologist and voice of Bart Simpson, Nancy Cartwright.
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I just wanted to say that my mother went to Synanon when she was just 15 in California. I have heard many horrible stories about her times there of rape, sever beatings and brainwashing. I was a product of her enviornment and myself went to Walden house for children on haight st. when I was just 13. Even at that age I could see what they were trying to do with slogans like, "Fake it till you make it." While there are places out there for troubled children, I don't believe that anyone is policing these facilities for physical, mental and emotional well being of these children. Most of the kids are what they call throw away children and their families have given up on them. I ran away after only a few months of this two year program after one of the "Couselors" tried to have sex with me. As he said, no one would believe me. How right he was!!
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DeeDee, I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you!
Something needs to be done about these places.
Can anyone give me a link to the movie? I'm finding various things on Utube... but not what you're describing.
Thanks so much!
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I just wanted to say that my mother went to Synanon when she was just 15 in California. I have heard many horrible stories about her times there of rape, sever beatings and brainwashing. I was a product of her enviornment and myself went to Walden house for children on haight st. when I was just 13. Even at that age I could see what they were trying to do with slogans like, "Fake it till you make it." While there are places out there for troubled children, I don't believe that anyone is policing these facilities for physical, mental and emotional well being of these children. Most of the kids are what they call throw away children and their families have given up on them. I ran away after only a few months of this two year program after one of the "Couselors" tried to have sex with me. As he said, no one would believe me. How right he was!!
deedee. can you elaborate on what was done to your mother in Synanon?
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o my god..was not my kid an indoctrination film for straight?
does anyone know? The similarities...God, how does anyone, no matter how STUPID and uneducated think forced confessions to a group about your abortions and drug use is GOOD. Get a hold of the hardened 17 year old interrogator character prompting the confessions. Christ
What happened to the Semblers kid? Anyone know?
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Yes. It was based on Newton's book and used for promotion and societal conditioning.
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Yes. It was based on Newton's book and used for promotion and societal conditioning.
do you have a link to newtons book or news about what happned to semblers kid? Is it true he was in seed and eventually committed suicide?
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for some reason watching those clips makes me embarassed. I guess watching someone's mental illness, as captured through film just is just uncomfortable
lol "how many of you got high in church?"
hands shoot up
"Im 10 years old, i started doing drugs in the 5th grade"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_TCcgn ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_TCcgnwCs&feature=related)
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The only elaboration that needs to be made was I was born right before my mother turned 16 and she was not sexually active before going to this place that was supposed to "help children".
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o my god..was not my kid an indoctrination film for straight?
does anyone know? The similarities...God, how does anyone, no matter how STUPID and uneducated think forced confessions to a group about your abortions and drug use is GOOD. Get a hold of the hardened 17 year old interrogator character prompting the confessions. Christ
What happened to the Semblers kid? Anyone know?
Damn that clip really was erie.
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What clip?