Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 30, 2006, 01:24:00 AM
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Hi
I am writing this post from Australia. My brother moved to the US about 2 years ago with his American 2nd wife & my now 10 year old niece (her mother dies years ago). My niece is dislexic & they want to ship her off to Majestic Ranch for a full year. She does not have any behavoural issues just a learning problem. From what I can see from its website it takes a highly punitive approach to the children and i was puzzled as to why toys from home are banned as well as phone calls strongly discouraged. Further research did nothing to reassure me (isaccorp etc. Australia does not have a tradition of places like this or even summer camps, but whenever i express concern his wife tells him i am butting in and that I am just worried because these places are not an Australian norm. What can be done to stop a child from going there. I have offered to have my niece live with me for a year & attend a private day school In Australia. While this also separates my niece from her parent it seemd far less damaging than a place that is so extreme. Any advice would help. I am not just an interferer. I really fear for the kid & am pretty powerless from 1/2 way across the world. Can anything be done. Is the place as bad as isaccorp says it is. Why cant the kids write letters to anyone apart form their parent?
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She'd be far better off away from the parent with you. If they ship her off she is going to be away from her parent anyway and in a hostile abusive environment. Your instincts are correct and I hope you prevail in keeping her out of that place. Just hope these kind of places never make it to Australia.
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This is my biggest concern. That she wont have any contact with her family (any of us @ all)at least if she were with me or her grandparents she could have contact with any of her family as much as she wants. That and all the abuse allegations. Does anyone know of any legal recourse that relatives can take? are there any simalar programmes which adress learning difficulties and help the kid? I am worried sick. I keep being told that my niece is quite keen on going because she loves animals and is told of their ranch programme. This makes me so angry because she is just a little girl. She has no idea what she is being sent to.
Also while i am on this rant- Why are thses schools not subject to the same legal requrements as normal american boarding schools? When I was a teenager, I did a 6 month exchange @ an american boarding school and had a great time. I had just assumed they were all subject to the same standards in terms of minimum care etc. I know I probably sound ignorant but i am not American. Please If anyone knows anything that can be of help to me here it would be so appreciated :???:
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Why on God's Green Earth would anyone send a child with a Learning Disability to a WWASP program??
Ask the parents what they are hoping to gain - and if it is an education for their child - ask how they expect her to be educated in an environment designed to facilitate stress, for breaking down resistance to authority?
How is that going to help her learn to read and write?
My guess is they went looking for a specialty school and found Majestic Ranch - and when calling the marketing arm (teen help / teen solutions or what ever they are calling themselves now) they were told the program was perfect for their needs - like everyone is, no matter what their needs are.
Try this - suggest they call using different names and greatly divergent scenarios - and see what they are told about the appropriateness of Majestic Ranch. They'll need to call from different phones - maybe get friends and family to call each with a different situation.
Describe children with needs far different from your nieces - needs far different from each other - and see if any of these kids are felt to be inappropriate for placement at Majestic Ranch.
This might help your family see they are being sold a most inappropriate program for their Learning Disabled child.
Frankly, I am horrified to think of this child being sent to such a Program. The since of abandonment and fear she will suffer; and the hostility that is bound to be generated toward parents who who subject her to such treatment will be unavoidable.
For make no mistake - she must be abandoned there. Phone calls are not discouraged - they are not allowed! Visits are not allowed - not until she reaches level 4 - and that may take many months. For some kids, it takes a year and more.
On the first levels she will not be allowed to have a normal conversation with anyone. Talking is not allowed. She will not be allowed any privacy what so ever - none - ever - on the first levels. She will not get much to eat - and it will not be very wholesome or tasty. She will eat it anyway, b/c she will be very hungry. In school, if she is allowed to attend class (and if she is being consequenced for breaking any of the many rules, she will not be allowed to attend class) she will be sat in front of a computer and given copied study sheets - and she will be expected to read it ,and learn it, in a "self directed" manor. If she can teach herslef - she can do that at home. If she can't, she needs a school with trained special ed teachers who can teach her. I can't think your family has any idea what kind of place Majestic Ranch is.
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Majestic Ranch is no place for an animal lover.
A sadist who enjoys animal cruelty would be right at home.
There are persistent reports of cruel and vicious treatment toward the animals.
For example:
http://www.isaccorp.org/majesticranchacademy.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/majesticranchacademy.html)
excerpt:
If the children touch any of the dogs on the ranch, the dogs are shot by owner Dan Pert.
Ranch dogs feed on the carcasses of dogs and other animals.
Sick animals are shot in front of the children.
I also recall reading of an occasion where Dan Pert drug a Llama near to death and left it tied to a fence to finish dying. I can't find it now - maybe someone else will know where that was posted. I know in the affidavits taken in 05 ex staff explained how the kids were made to gather up dead and maggoty carcasses to haul to the carcass pile. Feel free to write me, and I'll send you copies of the affidavits in a PDF file.
As for why there is no regulation - such things have been left largely up to the states; and many states chose not to stiffel the growth of private industry. Following might give you an idea why the teen "help" industry has been left alone to grown and do as it will unchecked. This is just a small sampling of how its accomplished.
http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/com_i ... 71039/P-T/ (http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/com_ind/C00371039/P-T/)
RANDOLPH UT 8406404/15/2003 4000.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 23991336511 PEART, DAN
RANDOLPH UT 840640 6/29/2003 2000.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 23991336512 PEART, DAN
RANDOLPH UT 840640 6/29/2003 -2000.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 23991336511 PEART, DAN
RANDOLPH UT 840640 6/29/2003 2000.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 23991336512 PEART, DAN
RANDOLPH UT 84064 10/11/2004 500.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 24962668928 PEART, DAN
RANDOLPH UT 84064 10/27/2004 1500.00 MAJESTIC RANCH/EXECUTIVE 24981549102 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 10/27/2004 2000.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 24981549102 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 03/31/2004 500.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 24990996317 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 06/29/2003 2000.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 23991336513 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 06/29/2003 2000.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 23991336513 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 06/29/2003 -2000.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 23991336513 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 03/31/2004 -500.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 24990996317 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 04/15/2003 4000.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 23991336512 PEART, DONNA
RANDOLPH UT 84064 03/31/2004 500.00 N/A/HOMEMAKER 24990996317 PEART, RACHEL S.
LA VERKIN UT 84745 04/11/2002 1000.00 N/A/HOUSEWIFE 22990859838 PEART, WILLIARD JAKE
LA VERKIN UT 84745 04/11/2002 -1000.00 22990859839 PEART, WILLIARD JAKE
LA VERKIN UT 84745 03/31/2002 1000.00 TEEEN HELP/ADMISSIONS 22990660363 PEART, WILLIARD JAKE
LA VERKIN UT 84745 03/31/2002 1000.00 TEEEN HELP/ADMISSIONS 22990660363
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my god. This is just inconcievable. Why would anyone want to put their child through such insanity? Part of the problem in making my brother see any kind of sense or reason is his new wife. She is not wild about the Australian side of the family either.
His wife seems convinced that my niece is disturbed as well as having a learning disability. The fact is she is a normal child & like all normal kids sometimes behaves & sometimes does not. Her step mother seems to feel that children should be punished for being inconvenient. This is why i am strongly pushing that my niece live in Australia with with me or her grandparents. Everything i have to say is falling on deaf ears though.
If I were to move to the US (my husband is in IT & could easily get a good job) would I have any legal rights if it could be proven that this place was abusive? I read about a californian boy who was released by a judge to relatives because he was @ tranquility bay.
BTW Isaccorp state that WWASPS own tranquility Bay & I saw a documentary on this place. My brother claims he was told by majestic ranch that they were unconnected. What is the story on this?
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most kids with learning disabilities are also made fun of on a consistent basis by the other kids.
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Majestic Ranch is absolutely affiliated with WWASP-- there's no doubt about it. Just google it and see how it is always listed on referral sites in conjunction with WWASP and look at the "desperate measures" series in the Rocky Mountain News.
No child should be sent there-- there's no evidence that such programs help anyone.
The owner of Majestic Ranch is no longer allowed to have contact with the children due to charges of sexually inappropriate behavior.
The prosecutor withdrew the charges with this condition. If the guy were innocent, do you think he would have accepted that?
And their education program consists of having kids read a textbook, take the quiz at the back of the book, and take the same quiz over and over till they get at least a B. I can't imagine this being any kind of help for a dyslexic.
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It is very frustrating to read this thread where a woman is trying to send a 10-year-old to Majestic Ranch. Hasn't anyone confronted her with the easily available information condemning this place? And she still insists on this particular facility above all others?
The very idea of sending someone away from home for such a mild diagnosis is appalling. This is nothing short of child abandonment and it is a testament to how messed up American society is that it is even allowed.
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yes it is extremely frustrating for me and the whole family. Boarding school of any kind seems inappropriate when a child is 10! This is why I am desperate for info onwhat can be done to stop this. It is extremely diffucult from so far away though.
In the worse case scenario if she does get sent there, & a realtive visits and demands to speak to her, can they be legally stopped? They probably can is Australia but these deliberately abusive schools dont exist here because of child protection laws.
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WWASP lies .
They own, are affiliated with Majestic Ranch.
They said they did'nt own paradise Cove either back in the day.
It would be a huge mistake to send a kid there. have the new MOM go instead. If she can handle it .
Better yet.Contact the Attorney General's
office in UTAH.They have facts about Majestic Ranch. If they still send the kid .Take legal action now. The kid needs your intervention.
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Maybe, if you point out to the step mom, that if she forces this through, and the child comes to harm (emotionally, mentally or otherwise) not only will the child probably hate her for life, causing unending problems in her marriage; but her husband may also come to hate and despise her as a result.
No doubt the girl is a hand full. I am sure the friction between she and her step ma ma is pretty think. All very normal. She may get the kid out from under foot for a couple years - but is that as long as she wants her marriage to last? Because eventually, the kid will come home. Even if the dad is seriously uninvolved with his daughters welfare - he will not be able to avoid seeing the effects of the Program on his little girl. I'd anticipate deep regret and anger as a result, and he just might direct it at his wife.
Majestic Ranch seems to be a dumping ground for adopted kids who have "attachment" issues; and step children, whom the Step parent finds annoying. This is also often the case with the older kids in the other programs as well - but it is only Majestic Ranch that will take the real young ones.
The child will get no individual treatment for her individual needs. She will be forced into a mold, that is exactly the same for every kid in the Program. Majestic Ranch is a WWASP Program.
Claiming they are not associated with Tranquility Bay is not exactly a lie. They can say each is individually owned and operated - therefore, not associated. But this is an unethical white wash job. All the WWASPS programs Are associated. They are all not only associated by virtue of having an identical "program" in each and every WWASPS "school" (The Program, is the Program, where ever it is)but also be virtue of family ties and employee swapping. Certain names pop up associated with various WWASP programs - and this has always been the case. It is essentially, a family operation. Not that everyone is a Litchfield, or a Kay, or a Peart; You also have Gouldings and Hintons and Atkins and Farnsworths - but they are all long and closely associated.
Please send me a PM with your email address. I can send you copies of affidavits written by Majestic Ranch Staff.
Also, you might want to read over the WWASPS V PURE trial transcripts. I can send you a copy of that as well.
And get a copy of Help at Any Cost, how the trouble teen induistry cons parents and hurts kids; by Maia Szalavitz. There is a link to order it provided at the top of this forum. It is Very informative and your brother really needs to read it - like Now!
The fact is, even if your niece is a disturbed child, treatment such as takes place in these programs is proven to not help, and in fact hurt.
I don't know what you can do, even if you come to the states. It would be a long hard battle getting her out, once they put her in, if they want to fight you. They as the parents, hold all the cards. For now concentrate in trying to educate your brother and tell him to tell his wife to shut up for a few weeks, while he does some research! Whats the rush? This is important. Tell him to slow down and start reading - and to thik for himself. His common sence will do the job, if you can just get him to listen to it.
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Anyone can write anything - especially if it comes off the hate sites. Of course I'd be horrified it I was stupid enough to believe the next Stephen King novella:
If the children touch any of the dogs on the ranch, the dogs are shot by owner Dan Pert.
Ranch dogs feed on the carcasses of dogs and other animals.
Sick animals are shot in front of the children.
I also recall reading of an occasion where Dan Pert drug a Llama near to death and left it tied to a fence to finish dying. (I can't find it now ) - maybe someone else will know where that was posted. I know in the affidavits taken in 05 ex staff explained how the kids were made to gather up dead and maggoty carcasses to haul to the carcass pile. Feel free to write me, and I'll send you copies of the affidavits in a PDF file.
No wonder I only come here for a laugh! Amazing...
PHX
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http://caica.org/KIC%20Main.htm (http://caica.org/KIC%20Main.htm)
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PHX laughing at kids getting abused... I see nothing has changed around here. :roll:
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Hi Everyone
Thank you for the helpful links. Keep anything of use coming I am trying to tread lightly with my brother because if he ses it as a matter of takig sides he will side with his wife as he is a weak weak man.
I am not sure if this is the site to ask but does anyone know of any good day schools for dislexic kids or places to search for them in the sanfrancisco reigion. The more alternatives I can try & offer the better.
I have looked on the aspen sites as well as the forums which surround them but again the emphasis seems to be on focusing on childrens negative behaviours instead of encouraging the positive.
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You can't "treat" dyslexia, you can't cure it and you can't attenuate it. For crying out loud it's not even really a disorder, simply a slightly different perceptual scheme.
Essentially a dyselxic child processes sensory data with different areas of the brain meaning that usual perceptive cues that act as mnonic (sp) devices will not work on her. Any half decent public school ought to have facilities in place to help a dyslexic child.
http://www.interdys.org/jsp/resources/i ... ations.jsp (http://www.interdys.org/jsp/resources/ida-collaborations.jsp)
http://www.dyslexia.com (http://www.dyslexia.com)
Both of these sites contain useful information abot special educational requirements for dyslexics and how to best meet them.
On a personal note, frankly I am alarmed that this is even being considered for a dyslexic child. What does the wife hope to achieve by doing this?
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was
made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be
masters.
--Daniel Webster
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Most States in the USA have laws which require public schools to provide for the special needs of students with learning disabilities.
The process is quite simple. The parents arrange with the school to have a CST (Child Study Team) test the girl. They will write up their findings, discuss it with the parents and make recommendations. It's free to the parents.
If there is a need for special services, they make up a plan for these (called an IEP, Individual Education Plan).
Since dyslexia is common, I'm sure they already have programs in place in any large or medium size city.
All of this is at no cost to the parents as the States are required to provide it.
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If it is ok I have a few more questions as the more i learn the less i realise i know! (the dislexia sites were very helpful BTW i took the californian details down to give to my brother)
I assumed that there was plenty of time to research this & do something as we are currently moving into the northern hemisphere summer & I figured school does not go back till september. After reading some of the sites it would seem that the WWAPS schools do not send kids home @ all over the summer & therefore take immediate enrolments during this time. Is this true? It is staggering! How can anyone be happy for their young child to potentially spend that much time away?
This means that a kid could not see extended family or friends @ all ever for up to 3 years? I am astonished that this has not gotten international media coverage. It seems no better than the human rights abuses in China.
I noticed that there is a californian congressman fighting to regulate the industry. Does anyone know if I want you to be an american resident or citizen to try & get a political rep to intervene?
This idea is a long shot, but if it g0ot to the point that there was a legal dispute, could the fact that the kids mother made provisions for me & her sister to be guardians have any influence? Given that the kids dad is alive & well & has custody i doubt it, but if we have any laywers on the forum their input would be helpful.
Also in the event that a kid is not an american citizen can they be forced to go? I realise that a 10 year old is pretty well powerless but her extended family are now ready to get on the first plane to the US if the situation becomes urgent. We just need the right information to try & prevent this disaster.
i am aware that my emails probably are coming across as a bit incredulous & hysterical but I am becoming increasingly panicked everytime I learn something new about these vile places. My heart breaks for the kids who are already in there. For the money their families are paying they could have a first rate education and in the event it is needed excellent therapudic treatment.
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http://old.heraldextra.com/modules.php? ... &sid=34937 (http://old.heraldextra.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=34937)
Monday, September 20, 2004 - 12:00 AM |
Investigation shows troubled school may be buying interest with lawmakers
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
SALT LAKE CITY -- A family that runs a chain of troubled boarding schools has dumped bundles of money into Utah political campaigns over the past two years -- and may have been peddling influence with lawmakers to avoid regulation, a newspaper reports.
The Salt Lake Tribune reports in Sunday editions that lawmakers quietly killed a bill this year that would have allowed the state to regulate boarding schools. Since then, checks have flown into political coffers, and complaints surrounding the schools have swirled.
At the center of the storm are House Speaker Marty Stephens, who received a $30,000 check six days after the bill died from its biggest opponent, and the Majestic Ranch boarding school near Randolph, which has been has been investigated three separate times for alleged abuse, according to state Human Service officials.
That school is owned by Dan Peart, brother-in-law of World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools founder Robert Lichfield, who awarded Stephens the $30,000 check.
The ranch is among seven troubled-teen schools affiliated with World Wide in four states and two foreign countries. Several others have been shut down amid allegations of abuse or poor living conditions, including the Casa by the Sea facility near Ensenada, Mexico, closed last weekend by government officials.
Ken Stettler, director of the Utah Office of Licensing, told The Tribune he's convinced he had the votes to pass the bill giving his office regulatory authority over Majestic Ranch, if only Stephens and others had allowed it to come up for a vote.
"It still goes back to the old deal that, you know, if you are giving political contributions, then when the time comes and I want you to call in your chips, you're going to have a listening ear, which is more than a lot of the citizenry has," he said.
After several years of relatively modest contributions, Lichfield, of La Verkin, and his network of family members and business associates opened their wallets to politicians -- all of them Republicans, and many of them Utah politicians -- starting in 2002. They donated no more than a couple of thousand dollars prior to Jan. 1, 2001, but since then have forked over $1 million.
'A responsibility
to bless others'
Lichfield told The Tribune there was nothing nefarious about his sudden plunge into the political arena.
"We've been abundantly blessed, and when you're blessed, we feel you have a responsibility to bless others," he said, confirming that World Wide member schools gross more than $70 million annually.
Lichfield added that the family's charitable contributions, which he estimated at $3 million last year, dwarf its political donations.
Stephens, the outgoing House speaker whose bid for governor ended unsuccessfully in the May 8 Republican State Convention, did not return repeated requests from The Tribune for comment or a telephone message Sunday from The Associated Press.
However, Lichfield denied receiving undue influence, and shrugs off suggestion that he has become a political powerbroker.
"Believe me, the check had nothing to do with (the bill)," said Lichfield. "Marty Stephens was going to get a donation from me no matter what happened to (it). Marty Stephens is a quality guy."
"I'd like to use my means and resources to bless peoples' lives. Does that also imply influencing policy-makers to make good policies that support good family values, quality education and the things I believe in? Definitely. I'd like to have some influence in that," he said.
This story appeared in The Daily Herald on page D4.
http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/PrRel/prjune142002.htm (http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/PrRel/prjune142002.htm)
For Immediate Release
June 14, 2002
YOUTH RANCH DIRECTOR CHARGED WITH CHILD SEX ABUSE
The director of a boarding school for troubled youth has been arrested for allegedly sexually abusing a young girl at the Rich County facility. Wayne E. Winder, 35, has been charged with a first degree felony count of aggravated sexual abuse, a third degree felony count of dealing in material harmful to a minor, and one second degree felony count and two class A misdemeanor counts of child abuse.
Winder is the director and staff supervisor at the Majestic Ranch, located near Randolph in Rich County. The parents of the children paid the school approximately $3,000 a month to care for each child. The investigation involved interviews with 41 children at the ranch.
The children told investigators about sexual abuse, physical abuse and that the defendant displayed a pornographic picture. The children are between the ages of 10 and 14-years-old.
The Office of Licensing has sent a letter to the owners of the school to inform them they need a Human Services license to operate a residential treatment center.
Assistant Attorney General Craig Barlow, the division chief of the Children's Justice Division of the Attorney General's Office, will be prosecuting this case. Bail has been set at $30,000.
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Home/News/ Press Releases/June 14, 2002
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///I also recall reading of an occasion where Dan Pert drug a Llama near to death and left it tied to a fence to finish dying. I can't find it now - maybe someone else will know where that was posted.///
here it is:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/ ... 1095707693 (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/6/683.html?1095707693)
name withheld (198.81.26.106)
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:46 am:
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I understand what these boy are saying 100% I havce been a staff member at majestic ranch academy (UT) for sometime and am currently doing my best to see that the place is shut down. I can attest to the facts that students at this establishment are continually neglected, mistreated and downright ABUSED both physically and mentally. The administration cares nothing about the welfare of the students or thier progress, on more than one occasion, I have seen students doing very well (too well) slammed down to level one from level 3 or even 4 for no reason at all, except of course for the fact the buisness loses money if a student is able to graduate in half the time that it "normally" takes. I myself have heard the assistant director, Wayne Winder tell a 14 year old boy that he was stupid, would never graduate and all we were doing was milking his parent's money. the average staff to student ratio at MR is 1 to 10 on a good day. These students are supposed to be learning how to take care of a ranch and care for animals right? Wrong. They very rarely have any contact with animals on the ranch, ALL of which are in very poor condition. The owner of the ranch, Dan Peart has been known to shoot dogs because the students pet them. One of my students told me one day that while working with Dan he witnessed him (dan) drag a live llama on the ground behind a horse at a full run for quite a distance. after he stopped, he tied the wounded animal to a fence and left it, telling the boys,"I don't care if you kill that damn ting" I have heard stories from other students of dan stopping his truck, (with boys inside) pulling a rifle from behind his seat to shoot deer and leave their bodies where they lay. Is this how we should teach children to care for animals? There are so many problems with this company, it is a truly terrible enviroment for children. If you have been thinking about sending your child to a wwasp program, DON'T DO IT!!!!! And if you have children in a program, YOU ARE BEING LIED TO AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOT SAFE!!! For their sake please pull them from wwasp programs as soon as possible. I promise you that all the staements on this message are 100% factual
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Are you still a staff member @ majestic ranch buzz kill? If so & it becomes necessary Can I get you to email my brother? He is likely to listen more to a staff rep. His big claim is that the people that he and his wifew spoke to on the phone were "professional and compassionate" Of course they were. They stood to gain 3000 a month!!!!
I am assuming that if you are lobbying to get the place shut down you are in contact with the office of george miller. Obviously these wwasp people have a stanglehold of power in utah. What about the more moderate states? What are they doing to get them shut down.
I have gotten my brother to agree to let my niece come to australia for a holiday over the summer holidays for a few weeks so that @ least buys time & puts her where i can see her.
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WWASP marketers are in it for the commission. So, if your brother calls and wants a school for kids with dyslexia, they would tell you that 80% of their students have it and that their treatment is 99.99999% effective in curing them. They would tell you anything, and none of it will be in writing so it doesn't matter what they say.
Parents ask WWASP's salespersons about things like that they are worried about their kid learning about other bad things, and the salespeople lie and say that the kids don't have any time unsupervised to tell war stories. Yeah right!
Just know that your brother will receive many high pressure follow-up sales calls urging him to save his daughter's life before it's too late, and that they can be so convincing that he might feel that he must have her kidnapped away or she could die or face a terrible fate. Also, know that the marketers read this site, so they're aware that he's being educated on the true colors of WWASP.
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I have now registered under the above name.
I can understand how a parent falls for high pressure slaes tactics when they have a teenager in trouble with the law or with a drug prblem that they are desperate to adress. I just do not get what they could possibly say to the parent of a relatively untroubled 10 year old who has special learning needs to convince them of any kind of urgency. I strongly suspect that they are selling it as some kind of year round summer camp with a special ed component. I would be extremely curious as to what they could say to get around the fact that the principal of the school was charged with sexual abuse.
The last time i spoke to my brother he mentioned that he was advised most kids will say bad things about the place because they are homesick & I note this seems to be a common theme in their pitch & an issue which comes up in these forums. I am amazed that this does not arouse suspicion in parents and make them come for a visit unannounced regardless of what the school says the rules are. The school i attended as a teenager had a boarding wing & I boarded in the US for a few months on exchange. In both schools boarders were made to write home (uncensored) every week and there were regular family days etc. The only limit was that parents @ the Australian school could not visit for the first few weeks of a new students stay & this was to help the child overcome homesickness. (I dont know how well it worked)
I would imagine that if your child were troubled in some way you would want to visit more as they need you more. It is obvously not a financial issue for parents who can afford 3 grand a month. Isnt that what universities like harvard charge?
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So very sorry Pls Help - I, BuzzKill , have never worked for wwasp. I have simply copy/pasted a post from another board - and provided the link as well, in case you'd like to see the entire thread on that forum.
The staff member posted anonymously, so there is no real way to contact them. It is regrettable. However, there are the affidavits given by Majestic Ranch staff member that have been mentioned. They have the person's names, naturally. Its been awhile since I read them, but as I recall, they co-oberate the account this anon poster made that I copied here.
You wrote: I strongly suspect that they are selling it as some kind of year round summer camp with a special ed component.
I strongly suspect you are right!
They sell the parent, what ever it is the parent is looking for. What the parent is actually getting, is something else all together. You seem to be getting it figured out pretty quickly. I hope your brother can learn as fast.
In case you wonder - I am a parent of a once upon a time Program kid. I learned after the fact that I had been lied to and manipulated - and I do Not mean by my son. I can talk about that - my experience as a parent, if you think that would help.
Please send your brother a copy of "Help at Any Cost". It explains the history of this kind of treatment modality; its realities, and its effects, very clearly. Please tell him to slow down - take hihs time - and do some research. He must not allow himself to get all his information from those who stand to enrich themselves through his daughter's placement/suffering.
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On 2006-05-31 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you still a staff member @ majestic ranch buzz kill? If so & it becomes necessary Can I get you to email my brother? He is likely to listen more to a staff rep. His big claim is that the people that he and his wifew spoke to on the phone were "professional and compassionate" Of course they were. They stood to gain 3000 a month!!!!
I am assuming that if you are lobbying to get the place shut down you are in contact with the office of george miller. Obviously these wwasp people have a stanglehold of power in utah. What about the more moderate states? What are they doing to get them shut down.
I have gotten my brother to agree to let my niece come to australia for a holiday over the summer holidays for a few weeks so that @ least buys time & puts her where i can see her. "
I cannot believe that someone would put more stock in a phone call than all the evidence that can be presented against this. I mean even the rumors of such stories would keep me away. It's a child, after all.
I am very glad to read that she will be coming to see you in Australia. Hey, I've never been to Australia! Can I come? (just kidding)
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Oh I would LOVE to visit Aussie Land!
Its on my list of most wanted vacations. I have even pondered moving there one day. So many deadly creatures tho! Poisonous creatures abound, and they are toxic to outrageous degrees. But still I want to visit, for sure! If you've not yet read "In a Sunburned Country" by Bill Bryson, I recommend it highly.
But back to the subject of Majestic Ranch - I was looking at the thread I linked to above, and noticed the following by Llith, concerning her thoughts on Majestic Ranch; posted just this past March. But before anyone asks - I have no idea who she is or how to contact her.
lillith
New member
Username: lillith
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 67.121.121.68
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 6:26 pm:
I enrolled my beloved child at Majestic Ranch in a little over a year ago, then, concerned by what I had read on sites like this, went to get her. Everything on this site about abuse at Majestic Ranch is true. The Pearts, Wayne, Tammy & all the others who collude in the torture of kids for profit will some day be called to account for this. No one ever truly gets away with anything...even if it may look like they do. Parents: you are being lied to. Your kids are being tortured for fun and profit. Please, do not buy the snake oil that W.W.A.S.P. is selling. I know how it feels to be desperate, and to feel that there are no other options. Fact is, we live in a very kid-hostile world. Also, I do find it interesting that WWASP, Ken Lay et al are huge contributors to politicians with agendas similar to theirs. It is obvious that they have managed to put quite a few politicos in their pockets, otherwise how could these abuses continue? There are never any surprise inspections of any of these facilities, nor are any of the kids ever interviewed by outsiders (parents) without a "staff" member present. When the CPS investigated majestic Ranch, it gave 48 hours notice, took the "tour" Wayne and Tammy gave them, and never spoke at all to any of the kids. Real impartial and fair assessment, right?
God bless the courageous staff who blew the whistle on these scumbags.
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Hi there.
Your first port of call ought to be an Australian legal expert. Several countries have laws or customs that forbid parents overseas if there is a reasonable suspicion that a child will be mistreated there. If this is a non-starter then your next gambit will need to be an appeal directly to the father, you'll need to go armed with armloads of information about the facility you are concerned about. My advice is to check out http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org) and remember that you are dealing with a large organisation here and you can use information about the various personalities involved very effectively. Part of your argument needs to include the findings of the surgeon general's report. I've found that generally speaking the best way to talk parents out of doing this sort of thing is to arrange to talk to them in a relatively informal setting, over drinks etc and then to present them will a whole boatload of information that starts with
1)These places don't work, look here the surgeon general says so...
2)The people you are entrusting your child to are totally untrustworthy an include several known child abusers, a guy who pepper sprays kids for fun and a guy who continues to work for the program despite knowing it's bullshit (Ken Key)
3) Look here, there's a tonne of information that indicates that these schools are harmful
4) Look here, your wife is talking shit, there are plenty of local effective treatment options here's what they are
5) If you don't like them let me investigate options in Australia. She can stay with us.
Generally speaking people who promote and advocate these programs are very prone to careful rationalisation and a strange sort of double-think. If you let him he'll probably simply brush away your concerns with some program-speak technobabble and you'll need to be prepared for this.
Finally you'll need to understand that in the extreme the decision is out of your hands.
My email address is batting around all over the place on these forums. If you have any questions or you'd like help putting together the information to petition your brother with just drop me a line.
Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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It's worth noting that the above is wholly founded in my personal experience, has nothing other than anecdote to back it up so it can only be considered trustworthy inasmuch as I'm a reliable commentator.
James.Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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Hi guys
I have checked out the potential legal situation here. It is not looking great. A judge letting an American kid go to American relatives is one thing. letting a kid go to people who are not even citizens of the country, when the kids biological parent lives there is another entirely.
I think Aardvark is right. It will probably be better if i could speak to my brohter face to face though as emails and phone calls are somewhat restrictive they also get quite tense & I am sensitive to the fact that i may alienate and cause a snap decision This is actually my biggest fear. Especially after reading about those horror escort services. @ least i have a body of reading on WWAPS programmes for him though. I found a psycholigist view of Casa by the Sea which was closed down that may help. I think when i send my niece back home I might take the vacation time & visit the US that way I can sit down and talk about the other options. As to the public education system, my niece is enrolled @ a private school. In spite of not loving the academic side she seems quite happy & has many friends. (another rsn why sending her away seems wrong)
Buzz kill I am sorry i should have read your email more thoroughly. I copied the link though and the passage to show my brother. I hope your son came out relatively unscathed from the WWASP school. Which one was it? Not one of the offsure ones i hope.
I have read the Bill Bryson book, i think it was marketed as Down under here. i was hilarious. i think he is a bit of a baby though. Nothing ever killed me :wink: Just imagine Sanfrancisco or Oregon but with nicer weather & that is pretty much what Australia is like.
Just a final question and this may seem naive. If a kid goes willingly or even enthusiastically & is not there for behavoural issues per se, i would assume they would get through the levels more quickly. Dont the adults then have a hard time explaining why a child who has obviously progressed well is now "manupulating " or making up lies? I understand that here is a finanncial incentive to hold kids onto lower levels to some extent but sooner or later parents must question either why progress is slow or why if it is not a kid would lie?
Also do they not have any kind oof report card for parents? In Australia each teacher writes a different comment & gives their grade. This is an indicator of progress. Are parents not allowed to call & discuss results?
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On 2006-06-01 06:34:00, Pls help wrote:
"Hi guys
I have checked out the potential legal situation here. It is not looking great. A judge letting an American kid go to American relatives is one thing. letting a kid go to people who are not even citizens of the country, when the kids biological parent lives there is another entirely.
I think Aardvark is right. It will probably be better if i could speak to my brohter face to face though as emails and phone calls are somewhat restrictive they also get quite tense & I am sensitive to the fact that i may alienate and cause a snap decision This is actually my biggest fear. Especially after reading about those horror escort services. @ least i have a body of reading on WWAPS programmes for him though. I found a psycholigist view of Casa by the Sea which was closed down that may help. I think when i send my niece back home I might take the vacation time & visit the US that way I can sit down and talk about the other options. As to the public education system, my niece is enrolled @ a private school. In spite of not loving the academic side she seems quite happy & has many friends. (another rsn why sending her away seems wrong)
Buzz kill I am sorry i should have read your email more thoroughly. I copied the link though and the passage to show my brother. I hope your son came out relatively unscathed from the WWASP school. Which one was it? Not one of the offsure ones i hope.
I have read the Bill Bryson book, i think it was marketed as Down under here. i was hilarious. i think he is a bit of a baby though. Nothing ever killed me :wink: Just imagine Sanfrancisco or Oregon but with nicer weather & that is pretty much what Australia is like.
Just a final question and this may seem naive. If a kid goes willingly or even enthusiastically & is not there for behavoural issues per se, i would assume they would get through the levels more quickly. Dont the adults then have a hard time explaining why a child who has obviously progressed well is now "manupulating " or making up lies? I understand that here is a finanncial incentive to hold kids onto lower levels to some extent but sooner or later parents must question either why progress is slow or why if it is not a kid would lie?
Also do they not have any kind oof report card for parents? In Australia each teacher writes a different comment & gives their grade. This is an indicator of progress. Are parents not allowed to call & discuss results?
"
Up front, I strongly support the work of alternative programs, and my long experience with the WWASPS schools (Not Majestic) has been extremely positive. So watching this exchange that villifies all WWASPS schools, by folks who have little or limited experience of them, makes me roll my eyes. The fact is that at some WWASPS schools, parents drop in all the time for unscheduled visits, as do law enforcement, educators, and other gov't agencies. So don't swallow everything you see or hear. Frankly, the histrionic alarmist approach of MA and Buzz tends to put people off, which hardly serves your purpose. That said, there are two elements of your story that concern me.
One is that your niece is far too young to go so far, and she does not fit the average toubled-kid profile, in which all other options have failed. Either part of the story is missing, or your brother is terribly misguided.
To address your question regarding willing students, if your niece really doesn't belong there, she will naturally react angrily to assumptions that she is a troubled kid, has behavior problems, etc. I can't imagine at ten that she'd be mature enough to just make the best of things and skip on through.
You could write a hundred e-mails or plead with your brother trying to convince him of your viewpoint, but it comes down to each of you having only secondary information. Why don't the two of you go visit the school together? You can affirm his parental authority and concern, recognize he's trying to do the right thing, but also demonstrate to him that there are other options.
You can also enlist a health professional to support your suggestion of seeing the place first-hand; health professionals will all agree that unless the situation is dire, you should never send your child anywhere without seeing the place first, and talking with the other students--without other staff there if possible. You can do this by talking in a room with a window, so that staff can't hear but can see you, to maintain the kids' safety.
This approach avoids setting you up as the antagonist and clarifies that you and your bro are on the same team. I hope this is helpful. Good luck.
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Thank you for your post. Which WWASP school do you have experience of? I understand your concerns that there are many different schools possibly with different cultures and not being a citizen of the US I cant judge or comment. I absolutely agree that if my brother were to go through with this i would want to see the school and I would imagine that i could talk him into this if i were in the US @ the time.
I would also be happier if kids could write to anyone they wanted to. Could they @ your kids school?. I got the impression from the schools own website that phone calls were discouraged until the kid got to a certain point & it specifcally said that parents should not call before this point as it undermined the goals of the programme. The website also implied that kids could only write to parents and no nobody else. I assumed that if calls were so strongly frowned upon so would visits be. (particularly if you wanted to take the kid off campus) Was your experience of a WWASP school different?
My biggest worry is that after being pointed to other sites I have read some shocking things. The Isaccorp site mentioned some alarming things. The local media states & the links I have been provided with show that the principal was charged with sexual abuse. Having looked @ the schools website which was what lead me to do further research, I was surprised @ the lack of contact between students and parents and puzzled as to why children were not allowed to be sent treats or toys except on their birthday. Even if your child has severe behavioural issues it seems that this approach is harsh given that this is a school taking kids as young as 7 so I came looking to this site & others for genuine answers. It was then that I became more than worried and alarmed. I have read the newsletter that seems to cover all wwasp schools (provided on the majestic ranch website) and there seem to be some happy customers. Again though the emphasis seems to be on punishing kids till they see the light.
I dont think that this is what it takes to overcome a learning difficulty or to build a relationship with a stepparent. I have also become frightened by further research. I would be happy to hear your point of view & experiences although the alarming evidence against these schools is becoming overwhelming.
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On 2006-06-01 12:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
Up front, I strongly support the work of alternative programs, and my long experience with the WWASPS schools (Not Majestic) has been extremely positive. So watching this exchange that villifies all WWASPS schools, by folks who have little or limited experience of them, makes me roll my eyes. The fact is that at some WWASPS schools, parents drop in all the time for unscheduled visits, as do law enforcement, educators, and other gov't agencies. So don't swallow everything you see or hear.
Talk about making one roll their eyes?!?! :flame:
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http://caica.org/zehnder-report/contents.htm (http://caica.org/zehnder-report/contents.htm)
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I'd like to know which WWASPS program allows parents to visit a child on the first three levels? Or even talk to them on the phone? Which ones exactly? It doesn't happen. It doesn't matter how long the kid remains on those first levels either. I do know. I recall well the BBS parents, from every school, talking about how if they (the kid) wanted to talk to mom and dad, and get a visit, they'd start working their program - and some of these kids had been level one or two for a year or more.
When has Majestic Ranch, specifically, ever let parents visit a child at will; or talk to them on the phone at will?
When has CPS ever arrived unannounced and interviewed the children privately - assuring the child knows it is confidential; and if they are being emotionally or physically abused, they will be removed from the program? When has this ever occurred?
Because to make an appointment for a welfare check is simply giving warning to hide the troubled ones; and clean up the compound. Send some of the kids off into the woods - so CPS can't see how overcrowded the compound is.
And also, to interview a few children with staff standing by, is worse than useless. The consequences of being negative are such, that few will risk speaking out, knowing they will be left there to suffer the consequences.
In My Opinion, CPS knows all this, and thats why they do it this way; so they won't have to actually do any work. If they did their jobs, they'd have to find a safe place for the kids, and it would take a lot of man hours and money - and these states do not have the men and money to do the job. So, they turn away, and pretend to have done inspections and interviews - and they can truthfully say we went, and we looked, and the kids said it was great!
So, am I wrong? Tell us, when has any state agency ever arrived unannounced, and conducted private interviews with the children? At Majestic Ranch; or at any WWASP Program in the U S of A?
It has happened a few times in your off shore programs, and it results in the closing down of the program when it does. But when has such a inspection and private interviews ever takin place here in the states?
And what child was ever allowed to call their parent or visit with them while still on Level One, Two or Three? Even if they are in the program for a year or more at level two - which WWASPS program allows the parent and child any kind of one on one, uncensored, communication?
Even the phone calls, when finely allowed, are censored. I've never, not one time, heard from a program teen or parent that they *ever* had a un-moderated phone call. How freely may a child speak in such circumstances?
Which WWASPS program operates any differently?
And By the By - I hear a rumor your Program dudes have severely limited parent access to your BBS. I hear there is no longer a general board. Parents may only interact with parents from their own childs school. Now, why might that be? (rolling eyes)
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2006-06-01 18:59 ]
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Amen, Buzz. I won't hold my breath for them to answer your questions though.
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hi. What is bbs? is it the internal email system? I am curious to know if there is some kind of charity set up to genuinely help families (particularly the kids) who have been harmed by these places. Something about the stories I have read on these sites has really hit a nerve. I am waiting for my copy of help @ any cost to arrive but has there been any long term studies on what happens to the kids when they get out? This is an issue that people outside of the us know NOTHING about.That book is not even available in international bookshopsit needs to be ordered through Amazon. I am aware that the US is one of the few countries to not sign the un declaration on the rights of the child but a widespread education campaign is needed to uncover this. Would anyone be interested in speaking with Amnesty Internatioanl and broadening the campaign against these places? I only stumbled across all of this info by mistake afterall.
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The BBS is a forum; something like this one. It is only for Program Parents and is very closely moderated. Anyone who posts comments that raise disturbing questions about the program are soon blocked from access. It is all about "support" for the Program parents. Support being defined as keeping them validated in their decision to send their child into the program; and building firmly in their minds the idea that the child Must graduate.
When I was on it, there was a general board, that any program parent had access to. And then each "school" had its own forum, dealing strictly with that "school's" families.
On occasion, parents would notice that people from all the schools were hearing very similar complaints from their kids about what goes on. Keep in mind, the parents are told from the very first phone call that the child will lie and manipulate - and the outlandish stories they write home can not be believed. This does make since, when your talking about a population of kids who have been abusing drugs, as they tend to have a history of just that kind of thing. Some mental illness can also having lying and constant manipulation as a behavioral symptom. So, people accept that as a reasonable explanation when the letters begin to arrive.
But when you have parents from the various schools all saying Little Johnny, or Patty Jo, wrote and said they are always hungry; or the school is bogus; or the place is seriously overcrowded; that kids are hurt physically, and mentally - you begin to wonder why and how all these kids come up with the same stories - over and over.
The explanation? They conspire. They sit and night and plan together what lies to tell to best frighten and manipulate the parents. This too, can be believed - except when it is coming from schools hundreds or thousands of miles apart!
So, I speculate, that is why they took down the BBS General Board. Something along those lines.
As for Amnesty International and so on - they have certainly been approached about all this. There are some Human Rights organizations that have taken a slight interest. Nothing much as of yet. One of the problems is, it is the parents who put the kids there. It is the Program Parents, who in their great (and brainwashed) numbers, insist the program saved them and their kid. And facing that, its hard to get such groups to understand what is really going on. Frankly, it is hard to believe. Hopefully the international exposure will have an effect, and there will be a rising outcry that can not be ignored.
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I can certainly see how with older kids who are troubled the "manipulation" story would go down because im sure for a lot of these kids it is a nightmare version of the boy who cried wolf. I know the marketing people for MR seem to be strongly pushing the line to my brother & particularly his wife that a lot of younger kids exaggerate because they are homesick. So I am beginning to see how they convince parents how this can happen before the kid sets foot in the door of the place. Once thing that struck me about the tranquility bay kids was that the boys particularly all looked so thin and pale. It was reminicent of the pictures of ww2 concentration camp victims. The girls in the pictures usually look quite plump and healthy though. Are they a little kinder to the girls physically? From the sound of the post I have read on the sites you guys have provided they sure arent emotionally.
One thing that staggers me is the fact that they really seem to push honesty & trust with the kids ( I read the newsletters on the MR site)but many of the kids seem to think they are only going for a short time or seem to get sent by escort. It is such a shocking example to set. I know that my niece seemed to think that this is going to be like a summer camp with sports and outdoor activities with a minor emphasis on academics. i note that she loves anything physical and hates schoolwork. I am concerned that in the event she goes, her response will be to get angry at the outrageous lies she has been told and try to rebel, which will obviously keep her trapped there for longer. Obviously this is why i am spending the time & money to do what it takes to keep her out, but in the worse case scenario what would your advice be. Should I give her a more honest picture? It hurts me to think that her last monents with loved ones would be traumatic but by the same token she at least has the chance to go in and be co operative with a goal of getting out.
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The way the system handles the 'rescue letters' and BBS are indicative of how sophisticated these programs have become over the years. They have had their legal brushes with lawsuits and closed facilities and they have learned from these experiences. They know what they can get away with. They have been at this for a long time. They have an answer for every criticism. It is very cult-like and quite refined.
Still, it amazes me that parents fall for it. The most basic research will expose the most horrible stories; not just disgruntled kids, but parents who have admitted being fooled and news articles from reputable sources describing the closings and horrible treatments.
I cannot imagine why anyone would send a child as young as 10 away from home like that. If you think about it, the way the program dismisses 'just homesickness' is a good indication of their callousness towards kids.
I cannot fathom how this man can allow his new wife to manipulate him into giving up his child.
It tears at my heart to know there are thousands of children trapped in these facilities.
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On 2006-06-02 19:09:00, Pls help wrote:
"hi. What is bbs? is it the internal email system? I am curious to know if there is some kind of charity set up to genuinely help families (particularly the kids) who have been harmed by these places. Something about the stories I have read on these sites has really hit a nerve. I am waiting for my copy of help @ any cost to arrive but has there been any long term studies on what happens to the kids when they get out? This is an issue that people outside of the us know NOTHING about.That book is not even available in international bookshopsit needs to be ordered through Amazon. I am aware that the US is one of the few countries to not sign the un declaration on the rights of the child but a widespread education campaign is needed to uncover this. Would anyone be interested in speaking with Amnesty Internatioanl and broadening the campaign against these places? I only stumbled across all of this info by mistake afterall."
This is an issue that people INSIDE of the US know little about---due in part to the misinformation spread on forums like this. What happens is, people buy into the drama, catch on to the cause---much as it seems you're doing---without knowing the facts, or having any genuine experience. They gallop away on their white horses, raise a ruckus, and then find out they were wrong about it. There are so many good schools, and the work they do is so important, no one takes the crusaders seriously. Long run: the schools that are doing real harm, and hiding out quietly, continue to thrive.
I urge you to go see for yourself, if you're in need of a cause. Your niece does not belong at MR, but you probably know very little about the kids who really need a place to go in order to heal from addiction. These schools provide an essential service that is lacking in most places. Most are doing a spectacular job of saving families. Don't believe me . . . GET OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO SEE FOR YOURSELF.
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On 2006-05-31 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am assuming that if you are lobbying to get the place shut down you are in contact with the office of george miller. Obviously these wwasp people have a stanglehold of power in utah. What about the more moderate states? What are they doing to get them shut down.
I have gotten my brother to agree to let my niece come to australia for a holiday over the summer holidays for a few weeks so that @ least buys time & puts her where i can see her. "
A START has formed a state policy committe to study the issue from state to state which will then give avocates data to work with. A youth, parent and staff survey is also due to come out sometime soon, i understand.
http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/projects/ASTART.htm (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/projects/ASTART.htm)
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On 2006-06-03 12:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-02 19:09:00, Pls help wrote:
"Would anyone be interested in speaking with Amnesty Internatioanl and broadening the campaign against these places? I only stumbled across all of this info by mistake afterall."
i'm sure many kids would, i've been in contact w/ Human Rights Watch. This was through a professor for a human rights class project who had some HRW contact. They haven't picked up, but I planned on writing soon. Usually they require a large numer of youth- not sure why they haven't persued anything though.
We've been working on centralizing the youh pop @ http://www.cafety.org (http://www.cafety.org)
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i am not suggesting that every institution that takes boarders or works with Kids in crisis should be shut down. I am saying that given the amount of links & information I have been given which indicate abuse, there is obvously a severe problem with an industry which is not always regualated and that people outside the USA know nothing about this. We do know about other human rights abuses though. Moveover I would love to visit some of these places particularly when they are being considered as a place to put a loved one but A) I live in Australia and B)visits seem to be highly discouraged until the institution decides it is ready for a kid to see its family & even then it is only the parents. The MR website itself made this clear that is why I did nore research to find out why. Surely if a kid is truly troubled & needs to be removed from the family there should be as many attempts to keep the family together as possible. When kids are denied food, family contact and medical treatment until they behave better it is a breach of the un declaration on the rights of the child & it is not unreasonable to suggest that international pressure needs to be placed on the country who allows this. If this is not occuring there should be no issue with strict nationwide regulations to protect kids. Particularly Kids @ risk.
You are right I have jumped on the bandwagon because someone i love could potentially be hurt by what seems to be a major palyer in thhe industry & my capacity to help is limited. Kids need as many adults in their community looking out for them as possible. This does not just mean the nuclear family.
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The USA is one of the very few countries that have NOT signed the UN declaration of Rights of the Child. Why? Because the UN declaration forbids capital punishment for minors and the UN declaration forbids a sentence of life without the possibility of parole for minors. There are States within the United States for allow for both of these sentences.
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I urge you to go see for yourself, if you're in need of a cause. Your niece does not belong at MR, but you probably know very little about the kids who really need a place to go in order to heal from addiction. These schools provide an essential service that is lacking in most places. Most are doing a spectacular job of saving families. Don't believe me . . . GET OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO SEE FOR YOURSELF.
See what I mean about an answer for anything?
You can pick up the yellow pages for pretty much any community in the USA and find drug rehab programs that do not require handcuffs, cutting off contact with parents, and living far from home. This poster is quite simply lying.
You name the affliction and these guys claim they can cure it. They list everything from ADHD and depression, to lack of respect for parents and dressing funny. In some cases, they claim they can cure homosexuality. No, I'm not kidding. They can solve all the world's problems and all you have to do is willingly hand over your child to them, no questions asked and no contact or interference allowed, so they can work their secret magic and return to you the child you wish you had.
And just like the Nigerian bank account Internet scam, thousands of people fall for this.
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Hi Again
My niece arrives Friday. Yay. I have spent most of my time this last week trying to find out as much about the whole industry as possible. I have a few questions for those familiar with the vernacular of the industry so that I am armed with good info when i see my brother
1. What is Hazing-a cheryl sudweeks was charged with it according to the isaccorp site
2. Why is it in utah (it seems this is the home of a lot of facilites) there is a debate about whether a place is therapudic or a normal boarding school? Is there a different minimum standard of care?
3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psycologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
4. A lot of the kids on the fornits sites describe being "taken down" for various infringements. Is this some sort of beating?
5. It seems in some states religious schools are not made to hold the same regualtions as other schools. Do they have their own governing body.
In Australia Catholic schools have a separate governing body but they still have to follow the same minimum stnadards of curriculum and duty of care as all other schools. It seems in the US it is different? does anyone know how?
Cheers
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You forgot one TSW.
11. Utah is the Prozac capital of the US. Why so much depression?
One reason Utah is popular is that the Licensing authorities support programs. There are articles advocating programs posted at their site, written by a woman who is responsible for monitoring the programs. Utah, generally speaking, has decent regulations for programs, as regs go. The problem is in enforcement. The director has let his "fellow mormon saints" off the hook on numerous ocassions- at least once this resulted in a death of a teen, due to medical neglect.
In another incident of death, they investigated and found NO violations of regulations. When the DA pressed charges, they went back out and found "four"- all minor. I read the state regs and based solely on newpaper articles and sworn testimony came up with over 20 violations. I followed this case closely because the boy was my 14 year old neighbor whose mother ignored my warnings.
Another advantage to Utah is it's remoteness and that Wilderness programs don't have to purchase land. They march kids through land owned by the BLM- Bureau of Land Management.
Religious schools are exempt from regulations.
Religious programs are too.
A grave oversight, as many forms of abuse are carried out in them. My friend's grandson was molested in a religious program. No, to my knowledge they don't have a governing body. My guess, is that it is assumed that they are 'godly' people and wouldn't abuse kids. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think it used to be too, that many religous programs were for 'charity', which is becoming less the case. There's big money to be made in warehousing kids. Their mantra is "spare the rod, spoil the child". You can search "Roloff" and read about how one religious program in Texas fought to keep the state out of their affairs.
Some states have no regulations at all. Programs tend to gravitate to 'friendly' states and rural areas that will welcome the influx of money the programs bring.
There are some very good articles archived here that show the ills of behavior modification and discourge the aggregation of distressed teens. You might print those to give to your brother.
PS- Next to medical neglect, the number one killer of teens in programs is Restraint. A precedent was set in Texas recently when a high powered lawyer was hired to refute the coroner's report. He hire his own coroner who coined the term "excited delirium" - in other words, the kid was responsible for his own death. Restraint is even used in programs that state that they use de-escalation techniques instead of restraint. The truth is, many times you've got young, inexperienced males, ex-military, or religious zealots working with kids and when
push comes to shove, restraint will be used. It is also used for intimidation, as you may well have assumed.
Many of the "counselors" have no credentials. The programs use of the word is deceptive. In most states it is considered a professional title and illegal to use without proper credentials. Most programs, and many state regs, only require the direct care staff to be 19 years old, sometimes only a year or two older than their charges. They usually have a brief training provided by the program, and no background working with distressed teens.
110+ deaths in programs. Should 'therapy' include the risk of death?
Good luck!!
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-04 10:04 ]
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Um .. how long did it take Utah to prosecute polygamists?
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Two things for TSW's post:
1. If you want number five:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/washi ... ref=slogin (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/washington/04believers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
2. In most States, counselors and even psychologists cannot prescribe, change, or dispense medications. You can have a PHD in psychology and still cannot mess with meds. You must have an MD to do this. In other words, you must be a psychiatrist. In NJ, where my ex is a board certifified psychiatrist, psychologists refer patients to her when they feel medication might be warranted.
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On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:
"Hi Again
3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psycologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:
"Hi Again
3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
In the USA there is a division between what the Federal Government has jurisdiction over and what belongs to the States. Generally, issues involving the Constitution are within the jurisdiction of the Federal Government. Much of USA Federal law is based on the concept that the Federal Government can regulate trade between the States and Internationally.
That said, you will find laws vary drastically between States. For example, in Ohio and Pennsylvania you cannot provide therapy unless you hold a PHD (doctorate degree - the highest post graduate degree offered) in psychology or you are a psychiatrist. In New Jersey, you can be a 'counselor' with an MSW (Master's degree in Social Work). In most States, only psychiatrists can prescribe medications. To be a psychiatrist, you first must be a licensed MD (Medical Doctor). Psychiatry is a medical specialization much like internal medicine, surgery, or anesthesiology. The highest accreditation for doctors is to be 'Board Certified' for the specific specialization.
In general, prestige runs from lessor to greater: MSW, PHD, MD (Psychiatrist). Compensation also follows this with PHDs in psychology charging slightly over 100 US dollars per hour and psychiatrists charging 150 to 200 US dollars per hour. Therapy is expensive. Often, medical insurance only covers a very small portion by limiting what constitutes an acceptable diagnosis, the number of visits, and restricting the patient to the use of MSW level providers. Insurance companies generally require both a diagnosis and a treatment plan before approving coverage. They then approve a limited number of visits or sessions, after which the therapy provider must give progress reports and justification for further treatment to the insurance provider. Very few insurance companies will pay for these schools.
This lack of insurance is actually considered a plus by investors in these schools. Because the customer (parent) pays directly to the school, they avoid all the regulations, checks and balances, that are required by insurance companies and the laws that surround acceptable practices. For example, the law requires hospitals, clinics, and individual practitioners to have malpractice insurance in place. Insurance companies insist on this coverage and also insist that the provider is licensed to practice (medicine or therapy) by the State where they are working. It also speeds collections. Insurance companies often make partial payments based on approving only some procedures and treatments. Insurance companies also have maximum limits for services, above which the patient/customer is responsible to pay.
These schools often use technicalities to avoid regulations by describing themselves differently to different groups or people. They call themselves 'boarding schools' to avoid the legal restrictions under which therapy providers must operate. They call themselves 'residential treatment centers' to avoid State requirements under which academic schools must operate. In some States, these facilities only need a 'business license' to operate and there are no regulations governing their conduct.
Because these facilities are private, they cannot be visited or investigated by government agencies (child protection agencies, police on all levels, medical licensing boards, state inspectors) unless a complaint is filed against them and that State's Attorney General feels the allegation has merit and gets a search warrant from a Judge. The warrant must state exactly what and who the authorities are looking for when they visit. These schools contribute large sums of money in the form of political donations to local police and the attorney general as well as State Legislatures. This ensures they are looked on kindly by these law makers and enforcers. In some cases (notably Florida) police or former police are counted among the owners and employees of these schools. It must be stated that law enforcement and judges often approve of what these schools are doing.
It is difficult to prove cases of abuse because often there are no witnesses and the word of the accuser is discredited by the very fact that they were sent to one of these facilities. Also, in the USA, minors cannot file lawsuits. They require an adult to file on their behalf and their parents won't do this because they; 1. are the people that sent the kid there, and/or 2. would be exposing themselves to charges of neglect since they are legally responsible for their child's safety. Thus the few lawsuits filed are generally based on business laws (misleading advertising, fraud, breach of conduct). These lawsuits can only result in fines and monetary restitution to the victim. They are civil, but not criminal charges. Most are settled 'out of court' avoiding the bad publicity associated with going to trial and allowing the facility to pay off the victim without admitting any guilt. That said, once your read Help at Any Cost you will read of one successful lawsuit in New Jersey based on medical malpractice.
Finally, it must also be mentioned that these programs often send the teen out of their home State or even overseas. They are now under the jurisdiction of the laws of the State or country where the program resides that applies, not the teen's home State. When it comes to custody issues, like yours, this makes things very complex because in principle States say they will honor the custody, visitation, and child support rulings of the home State, in practice they often do not. Thus there are cases where the opposing parent is denied access to their own child which is technically illegal, but so difficult to resolve between the States that the child can end up completing the program before the Courts can enforce the parent's custody/visitation rights.
Thus you can see that this industry is a slippery animal tacitly approved by the State and as such is difficult to assail through legal means.[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2006-06-04 12:43 ]
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On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:....4. A lot of the kids on the fornits sites describe being "taken down" for various infringements. Is this some sort of beating?
5. It seems in some states religious schools are not made to hold the same regualtions as other schools. Do they have their own governing body.
In Australia Catholic schools have a separate governing body but they still have to follow the same minimum stnadards of curriculum and duty of care as all other schools. It seems in the US it is different? does anyone know how?
Cheers
"
4. When I refer to having seen others "taken down" at a WWASP program I spent 2 years at, I mean that they are tackled, sat on, and usually an arm is twisted. This is never done when the child is going to harm themself or another, just to make a point or harm someone who has talked back. Usually two or three staff will continue sitting on the kid, taunting them, until they finally agree to say whatever the staff want to hear or they are dragged into a locked isolation room for several hours or days. This is not legal in America, period.
5. IEPs are completely ignored at WWASP programs. Those are the plans we have for students who have disabilities and are in special education in our country. It is very illegal not to hold IEP meetings and not to carry out the provisions included and work towards the goals contained within an IEP, but WWASP doesn't care. This is one reason that I am certain your niece would be educationally neglected even more than most at Majestic Ranch.
Not just schools, but all American institutions, are not legally permitted to violate basic human rights of children. Because these programs are run by extended family members and they are operated as for-profit locked prisons, they are able to get away with what they do. They simply told our parents that we are all liars.
You've done your web research, Kudos! I'm sure you've found the thousands of us online with traumatic experiences to share, as we hope to educate people such as yourself who can still make a different choice for the child in your life.
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Thank you everyone for your amusing and enlightening responses. This is an issue which has gripped me completely.
Is this a bush initiative? Without meaning to offend anyone here, Why would anybody vote for Bush! I am beginning to see what the ned flanders character on the Simpsons is all about! You guys brought the world Ice hockey & keg parties, f scott fitzgerald & jazz. Surely you can do better than bush!
I have always been all for religious freedom but how does having a school with "religous values" make you above the law? What does this teach kids? That Jesus believes in ass whompings!!!!!
Most other Western countries have Private religious schools where the state & church agree that they can teach kids any crazy idea that they want but they are still subject to enforceable child protection laws & must porvide a minimum standard of curriculum & contain only fully qualified teachers. The nuns taught me of the best excuse for teen pregnancy ever "no mum it really is the son of god" :lol: but they still were not allowed to cut kids off from their family and voilently abuse them!
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What exactly did you find "amusing" lady?
We are talking about what? A ten year old little girl here? Take your Bush-bashing elsewhere, and use your energy to try to keep this CHILD out of a program.
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For your information, not too many people did vote for Bush...he stole the presidency twice. They guys that make the voting machines are Bush supporters. The thought that anyone could actually vote for him, especially for a second term is highly offensive. We are rapidly losing our rights over here and your neice is better off in Australia. At least when Bush finally crowns himself king she will be out of his reach. Also the main supporters of these abusive schools contribute billions to Bush. If they voted for him it is because they want to be part of the inner circle and be rich and important, same old sad story thoughout history. Greed Greed Greed. Oh and to be part of the "elite" that is guaranteed a place in heaven. Sick. :roll: :roll:
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Ok apologies. i did not mean to offend. of course i take this issue seriously. I was more commenting generally not specifically to my own situation. Really I did not mean to belittle anyones experience of these places
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ps if it is any consolation I hate my countries own bush loving pm & there was no corruption in the system everyone was just stupid enough to vote for him!
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On 2006-06-03 19:48:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"
I urge you to go see for yourself, if you're in need of a cause. Your niece does not belong at MR, but you probably know very little about the kids who really need a place to go in order to heal from addiction. These schools provide an essential service that is lacking in most places. Most are doing a spectacular job of saving families. Don't believe me . . . GET OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO SEE FOR YOURSELF.
See what I mean about an answer for anything?
You can pick up the yellow pages for pretty much any community in the USA and find drug rehab programs that do not require handcuffs, cutting off contact with parents, and living far from home. This poster is quite simply lying.
You name the affliction and these guys claim they can cure it. They list everything from ADHD and depression, to lack of respect for parents and dressing funny. In some cases, they claim they can cure homosexuality. No, I'm not kidding. They can solve all the world's problems and all you have to do is willingly hand over your child to them, no questions asked and no contact or interference allowed, so they can work their secret magic and return to you the child you wish you had.
And just like the Nigerian bank account Internet scam, thousands of people fall for this."
http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=3261 (http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=3261)
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So what is your point with the radio link? I'm happy for little Mia. Gee, I guess I can add trauma from sexual abuse to the list of things these programs claim they can cure.
For every success story there is another story of harm done and no conclusions can be drawn from these.
Many on Fornit's say that programs give the illusion of success because the participant was 'brainwashed.' How about 'converted?' I have a few friends that drank and did drugs when they were young. They fit the description of kids who need programs. They found God instead. It straightened them right out. At least no one forced them to find God.
The religion thing isn't as much a cure as it is a delusion. But since the means justifies the end in the mind of the program supporter, I suppose they would say it doesn't matter as long as it works.
Religion or program, or maybe a religious program. Pick your mind fuck. Oh wait, the kids don't have a choice. They have to accept whatever mind fuck is chosen for them, and endure whatever torment the mind fuckers think is appropriate. Choice really isn't important here. Whether cult or program (same thing, really), salvation is far more important than the rights of the individual.
Both cult and program then parade out their converts and say, "Look at this poor wretch. We save his life. This person is an example of how right we are." The convert simply smiles and agrees.
The objectionable part is when they insist that everyone else must be forced to agree as well.
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Well said AA! :tup:
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I could not get the link to play but i did read a 4 page extract from the book that this pair put out. It hardly improved my view of the BTS ideology particularly WWASPS. This woman was dreadful!
The mother described how heartbreaking it was for her when her kid was a missing person yet the first thing she did was go to an important business meeting. Surely even a busy exec would put the kids welfare first. She was also sooo compassionate toward homeless youngsters NOT! "they cant afford food but they can afford purple hair dye"
Then there was her delightfully non racist attitude to the french and to those scruffy backpackers @ the youth hostel. Because the kind of people who travel but do so on the cheap are obviously the devil incarnate!!!
As to the cops, I mean could they not see she was like really rich!! Does this not mean she gets priority over the seething masses!!!!
Lets not forget the fact that when Mia's uncle could not get her friend to come home mom was pretty blase about the other set of parents suffering. I guess if your kid will insist on dressing like a goth and being into some kind of wierd wikka cult, well it must serve you right!!! i mean according to mom none of the other girls @ school liked goth girl anyway so who cares if she ends up a homeless drug addict! What a comassionate mentality to raise a kid with!!!!I can kind of see why mia preferred the van full of Nazis to mom!!!
I am sure Mia gets saved in the end & everyone lives happily ever after but what is rediculous is that the mother obviously did not see a single problem with her mode of thinking.
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On 2006-06-18 21:30:00, Pls help wrote:
"I could not get the link to play but i did read a 4 page extract from the book that this pair put out. It hardly improved my view of the BTS ideology particularly WWASPS. This woman was dreadful!
The mother described how heartbreaking it was for her when her kid was a missing person yet the first thing she did was go to an important business meeting. Surely even a busy exec would put the kids welfare first. She was also sooo compassionate toward homeless youngsters NOT! "they cant afford food but they can afford purple hair dye"
Then there was her delightfully non racist attitude to the french and to those scruffy backpackers @ the youth hostel. Because the kind of people who travel but do so on the cheap are obviously the devil incarnate!!!
As to the cops, I mean could they not see she was like really rich!! Does this not mean she gets priority over the seething masses!!!!
Lets not forget the fact that when Mia's uncle could not get her friend to come home mom was pretty blase about the other set of parents suffering. I guess if your kid will insist on dressing like a goth and being into some kind of wierd wikka cult, well it must serve you right!!! i mean according to mom none of the other girls @ school liked goth girl anyway so who cares if she ends up a homeless drug addict! What a comassionate mentality to raise a kid with!!!!I can kind of see why mia preferred the van full of Nazis to mom!!!
I am sure Mia gets saved in the end & everyone lives happily ever after but what is rediculous is that the mother obviously did not see a single problem with her mode of thinking. "
Yep, sounds like your basic MOMSTER (monster mom).
Sad thing is, most of the WWASPS parents fit this same profile: Self-absorbed, spoiled, overly demanding and controlling. Unable to tolerate kids who will not (or can not) meet their expectations and demands. Eventually they write books or open up referral websites. The cycle continues.
:eek:
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On 2006-06-18 21:30:00, Pls help wrote:
"I could not get the link to play but i did read a 4 page extract from the book that this pair put out. It hardly improved my view of the BTS ideology particularly WWASPS. This woman was dreadful!
The mother described how heartbreaking it was for her when her kid was a missing person yet the first thing she did was go to an important business meeting. Surely even a busy exec would put the kids welfare first. She was also sooo compassionate toward homeless youngsters NOT! "they cant afford food but they can afford purple hair dye"
Then there was her delightfully non racist attitude to the french and to those scruffy backpackers @ the youth hostel. Because the kind of people who travel but do so on the cheap are obviously the devil incarnate!!!
As to the cops, I mean could they not see she was like really rich!! Does this not mean she gets priority over the seething masses!!!!
Lets not forget the fact that when Mia's uncle could not get her friend to come home mom was pretty blase about the other set of parents suffering. I guess if your kid will insist on dressing like a goth and being into some kind of wierd wikka cult, well it must serve you right!!! i mean according to mom none of the other girls @ school liked goth girl anyway so who cares if she ends up a homeless drug addict! What a comassionate mentality to raise a kid with!!!!I can kind of see why mia preferred the van full of Nazis to mom!!!
I am sure Mia gets saved in the end & everyone lives happily ever after but what is rediculous is that the mother obviously did not see a single problem with her mode of thinking. "
Go ahead and read the book; the mom was very honest about her own attitude, and wasn't afraid to demonstrate in the book that her mode of thinking had a great deal to do with the whole situation. In the excerpt, you just got to meet her as she was at that time, warts and all. Later, you get to see the transformation as she recognizes how she has to change.
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I actually read a lengthy on line interview with just the daughter. I am relieved that she got her life together & it seems she has been able to make a genuine life for herself. But I got the feeling that a lot of what she said, she had really convinced herself of because thinking about it too much (or perhaps discussing it) was just too painful. I noticed that she said it was hard at first to make friends outside of "the programme". I also noted that she mentioned that her counsellor would "confront" her about the issue of childhood sexual abuse then hug her when she cried. One thing that struck me as odd about this was that a place which is supposed to know all about kids, would put a girl with sexual abuse issues apparently alone in a room with a middle aged man who can get her uspet enough to cry and then hug her.
What if that scenario had gone horribly wrong? What if a lonely troubled kid with little experience of non sexual male attention & no parents to turn to for comfort was to mis interpret that and the adult male alone with her were to take advantage? i am not suggesting that this is what occurred but even setting up a situation where this can happen sits extremely uneasily with me!
She also mentioned that she was distraught when the authorities closed Morava. I imagine that a lot of kids would have been. After all they are alone and troubled and in a strange country where they do not speak the language and their parents are a million miles away! Moreover for many kids contact with the family is banned until they can "earn" back their parents love! In this situation even a horrible prison like atmosphere is a security blanket. many kids would not know if they are even welcome back at home, particularly if escorts took them.
I am glad WWASSPS saved mia but I sure as hell can't see why any sane adult would take that gamble with their kid!!!
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On 2006-06-20 02:59:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"WWASP didn't save Mia.
Mia saved Mia. A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
"
Amen! And SCL showed her it was possible.
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On 2006-06-20 06:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-20 02:59:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"WWASP didn't save Mia.
Mia saved Mia. A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 830#202077 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=1830#202077)
They've got built in answers for every outcome. Say a two kids go to ASR but don't finish. Both have remarkably similar experiences both before and in there. One leaves and becomes successful, one leaves and doesn't. Here's the explanation these places give for each. The one who is successful is so because of what he did learn while at ASR. The one who isn't, it's because he didn't finish. They take credit for successes that they can't possibly prove are a result of their practices and discount any negative outcomes as the client not working hard enough. Kinda like the religious freaks that claim to be able to perform healing miracles and when they don't materialize it's because the poor lamb didn't have enough faith.
:roll:
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On 2006-06-20 20:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-20 06:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-20 02:59:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"WWASP didn't save Mia.
Mia saved Mia. A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 830#202077 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=1830#202077)
They've got built in answers for every outcome. Say a two kids go to ASR but don't finish. Both have remarkably similar experiences both before and in there. One leaves and becomes successful, one leaves and doesn't. Here's the explanation these places give for each. The one who is successful is so because of what he did learn while at ASR. The one who isn't, it's because he didn't finish. They take credit for successes that they can't possibly prove are a result of their practices and discount any negative outcomes as the client not working hard enough. Kinda like the religious freaks that claim to be able to perform healing miracles and when they don't materialize it's because the poor lamb didn't have enough faith.
:roll: "
All reputable mental health professionals agree that partial treatment has little or no chance of success. And the successful ones? It's possible they're successful in every way except being able to perceive (your) reality, I guess.