Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 03, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
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Hey, I just noticed that FICA is now offering a Fee-Based Program Investigative Report Service.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)
:grin:
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Wow, charging $???
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On 2006-05-03 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey, I just noticed that FICA is now offering a Fee-Based Program Investigative Report Service.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)
:D
"
:wstupid: Congrats. We now have two Sue Scheffs. :roll:
P.S. - why the fuck am I not even surprised anymore? Im not even shocked, just sorta pissed.
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Disappointed - that's the word that comes to my mind. Very disappointed. Can you imagine some of the other advocates charging? Hell, some don't even ask for donations! They just do what they do cuz it's the right thing to do. Sadly disappointing.
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On 2006-05-03 16:43:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"O.o..................... Before you write her off why don't we see what the fee entails, and where it goes.
Lot of times this could be a token amount to cover the cost of resources expended, and to pay for other incidentals.
If not then yah I agree pretty grotesque. Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
"
I for one will be amazed when we find a 'program' thats not abusive and actually therapeutic. But, then again, that would just make it basically a retreat with therapy and boarding facilities.
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On 2006-05-03 16:50:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"I for one will be amazed when we find a 'program' thats not abusive and actually therapeutic. But, then again, that would just make it basically a retreat with therapy and boarding facilities. "
You wouldn't recognise an effective, non-abusive, therapeutically beneficial program, much less acknowledge such a thing could be possible.
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You wouldn't recognise an effective, non-abusive, therapeutically beneficial program, much less acknowledge such a thing could be possible.
Oh, I do, but such a thing can only be possible without minimum time limits, coersion, isolation, and confinement, restraint as corporal punishment, censored communication, LGAT seminars, level systems and mind control/behavior modification.
Then, it would be a retreat/ACTUAL BOARDING SCHOOL/with therapy, not "a program".
:roll:
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Don't care if FICA is just charging the parents for postage. That's just wrong to charge a fee, from someone who wants the title "advocate."
From a business standpoint, anyone can choose how they want to earn money; but waving the "advocate banner" at the same time is way off.
No, it's just wrong.
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Threee Springs, "advocates" don't charge the people they are ADVOCATING FOR. That's not how it works. When "Advocates" do a good enough job, prove themselves to be reputable and professional, then people will donate to them. OR there are funds available for research if the CAUSE is worthwhile.
This FICA thing just has a Sue Sheff-ie ring to it. Look at the PURE website and the BIG "NO CHARGE TO PARENTS"...
Everyone knows Sue Scheff makes lots of money, because she is paid by the programs to which she refers the parents and their children.
SO THERE IS A BIG CHARGE TO THE PARENTS, and it is a lot more than just money.
This FICA deal just feels like another scheme to grab money away from desperate, confused parents.
It doesn't matter how much is being charged, or how the fees are calculated. It is simply wrong.
If FICA truly feels they know a program is abusive, or has some problems that any parent should be aware of: THEY SHOULD NOT CHARGE FOR THIS IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
What happens to the parents who can't afford to pay FICA? Do their kids just get enrolled into abusive programs because their parents lack the funds for a FEE-PAID investigation?
This stinks!
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Yah man I should start charging, and have people pay for me to plug their product and/or service in my rants.
:wstupid: its the american way!
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Damn I'm up late. Got too much shit to do, and I keep checking back here.
What would make the most sense from an "advocacy" standpoint, if they need the money to check things out, is simple: They get paid to post the truth on their website for everyone to see. So if it costs them $200, say, to expose some WWASPS crap, the crap remains exposed on the public Internet. If they do anything other than that, I'm with the anon; it's not good.
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Didnt Kathy get sent to Straight herself? :roll:
Gawd, whats next, me opening up my VERY OWN PROGRAM? :lol:
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On 2006-05-03 22:07:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Hahaha I know who the Anon is now.
Ok I looked at the website and this is my revised opinion.
My definition of advocacy and the anon's is going to differ obviously. However, I will say that the overall feel of the site makes me wonder if we are witnessing the birth of a new Ed Con. God is the...refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find no sanctuary in His arms, but...a kind of superiority, soothing to their...egos: He will set them above their betters.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
"
:eek:
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Isn't that what Sue Scheff likes to think of herself as, an "ed con?" Of course Sue Scheff isn't an Ed Con, but she does refer children to programs, she is just paid by the programs and not by the parents.
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On 2006-05-03 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey, I just noticed that FICA is now offering a Fee-Based Program Investigative Report Service.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)
:D
"
Why post anonymously? Why post on Fonits??? If you have comments or questions about what I'm doing, I'm only an email away. Or is it the drama that you are looking for on Fornits. :wave:
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In response to .... "Wow, charging $???"
Wow, how the rumors get started here on Fornits! It's like a regular soap opera. Why don't you look at the site, before contributing to the about-to-be a large and false rumor.
Thanks guys, I appreciate being the object of an attack for no apparent reason other than your own ignorance. Oh well, I should know by now, not to expect any more from you...
I just got air of this from a friend, you know, someone with the guts to come to me directly.
Oh well. :roll: [ This Message was edited by: Kathy on 2006-05-04 04:21 ]
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On 2006-05-03 14:39:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2006-05-03 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey, I just noticed that FICA is now offering a Fee-Based Program Investigative Report Service.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)
:wstupid: Congrats. We now have two Sue Scheffs. :roll:
P.S. - why the fuck am I not even surprised anymore? Im not even shocked, just sorta pissed."
Niles, why are you even here? It doesn't make any sense? You don't make any sense. :roll: whatever. :roll: Oh well, whatever makes you feel important. guess you all ran out of other victims to attck. Again, I'm only an email away, no need for the drama on Fornits. Unless this is your only excitement, if so, then carry on as usual.
[ This Message was edited by: Kathy on 2006-05-04 04:26 ]
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On 2006-05-03 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Disappointed - that's the word that comes to my mind. Very disappointed. Can you imagine some of the other advocates charging? Hell, some don't even ask for donations! They just do what they do cuz it's the right thing to do. Sadly disappointing. "
:wstupid:
I'm so sorry you're disappointed. I'm really disappointed that you don't have enough balls e-mail me or at the very least claim your post.
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On 2006-05-03 16:43:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"O.o..................... Before you write her off why don't we see what the fee entails, and where it goes.
Lot of times this could be a token amount to cover the cost of resources expended, and to pay for other incidentals.
If not then yah I agree pretty grotesque. Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
"
Well, thanks for half way giving me the benefit of the doubt anyway. (and yet contributing to the bs in another, oh well) :question:
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On 2006-05-03 16:50:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
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On 2006-05-03 16:43:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"O.o..................... Before you write her off why don't we see what the fee entails, and where it goes.
Lot of times this could be a token amount to cover the cost of resources expended, and to pay for other incidentals.
If not then yah I agree pretty grotesque. Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
"
I for one will be amazed when we find a 'program' thats not abusive and actually therapeutic. But, then again, that would just make it basically a retreat with therapy and boarding facilities. "
Why are you looking for a program Niles? I could be terribly mean to you, but I'm really trying hard to resist the temptation. You really are annoying as hell.
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On 2006-05-03 21:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Don't care if FICA is just charging the parents for postage. That's just wrong to charge a fee, from someone who wants the title "advocate."
From a business standpoint, anyone can choose how they want to earn money; but waving the "advocate banner" at the same time is way off.
No, it's just wrong."
Another anonymous poster, figures. Man, you guys are gutless. You never cease to amaze me.
I don't recall looking of a title of any sort, but I guess you'd know be than I. Whose waving the "advoceate banner" What in the world are you talking about??? You guys, if you are going to complain about something, at least show some intelligence in your arguments. Oh and a little bit of courage is always nice, you know addressing the person directly, or at least claiming your post. this is becoming laughable! :rofl:
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On 2006-05-03 21:08:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Lot of research costs money and not all Advocates are flush with cash. Sure you can get alot of information off the internet, but other information you have to pay for.
FICA may well be asking for a nominal sum to cover those expenses which seems reasonable, but if that is not the case shame on them. Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
"
Thank you once again, for first, having some intelligent questions that might just be on the right track, and second, for being able to post with your name, jeez.
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On 2006-05-03 21:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Threee Springs, "advocates" don't charge the people they are ADVOCATING FOR. That's not how it works. When "Advocates" do a good enough job, prove themselves to be reputable and professional, then people will donate to them. OR there are funds available for research if the CAUSE is worthwhile.
This FICA thing just has a Sue Sheff-ie ring to it. Look at the PURE website and the BIG "NO CHARGE TO PARENTS"...
Everyone knows Sue Scheff makes lots of money, because she is paid by the programs to which she refers the parents and their children.
SO THERE IS A BIG CHARGE TO THE PARENTS, and it is a lot more than just money.
This FICA deal just feels like another scheme to grab money away from desperate, confused parents.
It doesn't matter how much is being charged, or how the fees are calculated. It is simply wrong.
If FICA truly feels they know a program is abusive, or has some problems that any parent should be aware of: THEY SHOULD NOT CHARGE FOR THIS IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
What happens to the parents who can't afford to pay FICA? Do their kids just get enrolled into abusive programs because their parents lack the funds for a FEE-PAID investigation?
This stinks!"
:wstupid:
Oh man, you busted me, I AM another SUE Scheff. I can't hide it any longer! She is my hero and my mentor. wow, how'd you anonymous people figure me out. I've been outted! Oh no! what shall I ever do??? :silly:
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Kathy, it's no drama, and it's no rumor. It's on your website.
So why are you charging a fee for investigating programs for parents?
Can you answer that for everyone?
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Yeah Kathy, I am curious about that too? I went to your website yesterday, and I remember it saying it would cost money. Now, there isn't a flat fee...........but if I remember correctly it's not free?
Waiting to hear..........
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On 2006-05-04 04:28:00, Kathy wrote:
"
On 2006-05-03 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Disappointed - that's the word that comes to my mind. Very disappointed. Can you imagine some of the other advocates charging? Hell, some don't even ask for donations! They just do what they do cuz it's the right thing to do. Sadly disappointing. "
:wstupid:
I'm so sorry you're disappointed. I'm really disappointed that you don't have enough balls e-mail me or at the very least claim your post. "
More about balls... I think someone has a fetish.
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On 2006-05-04 07:28:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Yeah Kathy, I am curious about that too? I went to your website yesterday, and I remember it saying it would cost money. Now, there isn't a flat fee...........but if I remember correctly it's not free?
Waiting to hear.........."
Hey CCM girl, thanks for the decent post and the direct question... See http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#193388 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15265&forum=9&start=0#193388)
for the answer.
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On 2006-05-04 07:28:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Yeah Kathy, I am curious about that too? I went to your website yesterday, and I remember it saying it would cost money. Now, there isn't a flat fee...........but if I remember correctly it's not free?
Waiting to hear.........."
Investigative Program Reports are available for a fee - I want you to contact Kathy Moya for a "quote".
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)
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On 2006-05-04 12:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-05-04 07:28:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
"Yeah Kathy, I am curious about that too? I went to your website yesterday, and I remember it saying it would cost money. Now, there isn't a flat fee...........but if I remember correctly it's not free?
Waiting to hear.........."
Investigative Program Reports are available for a fee - I want you to contact Kathy Moya for a "quote".
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... eports.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/programinvestigationreports.htm)"
Uh, what's up with Fornits? I typed "you need" to contact ... and it comes out I WANT YOU to?
Weird!
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Okay, I think what happened is originally Kathy had a fixed price on certain reports but has since decided to make the reports available for a "suggested donation". At least that's my take on it, having visited the website a few days ago when it looked different. Either way, there really isn't anything wrong with exchanging information for a fixed price or suggested donation.
My suggestion would be for Kathy to follow the lead of orgs. like ISAC. Let people know specifically what you need (e.g. office equipment, computer supplies, etc.) as some people have these resources (but might be cash poor) and would gladly donate to a worthy cause such as ending institutionalized abuse.
The program investigative report concept is still "iffy" in my mind. It smacks of the same kind of approach we have seen the ed cons and parent referral services use ... just packaged differently. Doesn't mean that is Kathy's intent, especially since she has already stated what her primary concern is (making at least enough money to support the operational costs of her website).
What Kathy doesn't seem to get is by offering this service to parents, she is giving credence to the idea that the troubled teen industry is somehow SAFER if a parent knows what to look for (FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY).
The industry as a whole is not safe as long as there is no accountability for mistreating even killing children. That's the point Cathy (and others) appear to have missed by a longshot.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... ngpage.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/reportorderingpage.htm)
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On 2006-05-04 12:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay, I think what happened is originally Kathy had a fixed price on certain reports but has since decided to make the reports available for a "suggested donation". At least that's my take on it, having visited the website a few days ago when it looked different. Either way, there really isn't anything wrong with exchanging information for a fixed price or suggested donation.
My suggestion would be for Kathy to follow the lead of orgs. like ISAC. Let people know specifically what you need (e.g. office equipment, computer supplies, etc.) as some people have these resources (but might be cash poor) and would gladly donate to a worthy cause such as ending institutionalized abuse.
The program investigative report concept is still "iffy" in my mind. It smacks of the same kind of approach we have seen the ed cons and parent referral services use ... just packaged differently. Doesn't mean that is Kathy's intent, especially since she has already stated what her primary concern is (making at least enough money to support the operational costs of her website).
What Kathy doesn't seem to get is by offering this service to parents, she is giving credence to the idea that the troubled teen industry is somehow SAFER if a parent knows what to look for (FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY).
The industry as a whole is not safe as long as there is no accountability for mistreating even killing children. That's the point Cathy (and others) appear to have missed by a longshot.
http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... ngpage.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/reportorderingpage.htm)"
This anonymous posting is driving me crazy? why are you people so afraid to admit who you are?
Anyway, thanks for the post, yours is the only one that has made any valid points. (Assuming no ulterior motives--anonymous)The only one with some specific suggestions. I do appreciate this. I will also think about what you've said, and perhaps change some things on the site. With this said, I still don't get why you guys won't email me personally. I don't understand why you are hiding behind the anonymity of fornits. oh and PS.... this thread was continued under the title, aka SUE SCHEFF, JR. for further reading. And now, I will be signing off.
So Long!!!!!
Kathy