Post by: dragonfly on February 21, 2006, 08:08:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2006, 09:02:00 AM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 21, 2006, 10:50:00 AM
Quote
My specific thoughts sound silly, but I wonder if a group of kids brainwashed together, have some remote way of influencing each other without realising it. And I wonder if executive staff and thier affiliates have remote psychic surveliance still.
Pssst! Dispatch the StraightMobile? immediately! This guy knows way too much! :exclaim:
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2006, 10:54:00 AM
Post by: BuzzKill on February 21, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
He asked me how many enter the military afterward.
I don't know - but I do know some do.
That in itself is not odd - but if the percentage is High - that might be interesting.
This friend pointed out it sounded like a program to condition people to accept authority without question - and that such people are valued by the military.
He thinks the whole thing might be intended to produce an abundance of fodder for military service.
Anyone have any idea what the stats are for military service after time in such programs?
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
Come on. Perhaps if you stop tripping so much things may be a little clearer for you. :roll:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 21, 2006, 12:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-21 08:48:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"
This friend pointed out it sounded like a program to condition people to accept authority without question - and that such people are valued by the military.
"
"it sounded like a program (designed) to condition people to accept authority without question".
This is exactly what it is/was. At the least it is/was a program designed to head off any threat from the youth to the established order of society. The goal being to convert willful, strong-minded and clear-sighted youth into submissive slaves. If the program fell short of its' goal of a completely sucsessful transformation of the indidvidual, then at the least the threat from that individual would be difused by incapacitating that individual through mental and physical trauma, leaving him or her so crippled and scarred by the experience as to render him/her socially and politically impotent.
"...and that such people are valued by the military."
After I graduated from $tr8 I realized I had been completely prepared to enter the military. I went to the recruiting center and signed up with the Army. I even went and took the Asvab (??) test. Just before I signed the papers though, I changed my mind and walked away.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority. Fuck government.
::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove::
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 21, 2006, 01:16:00 PM
Quote
The goal being to convert willful, strong-minded and clear-sighted youth into submissive slaves.
http://fornits.com/SIBS/bdsm.htm (http://fornits.com/SIBS/bdsm.htm)
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2006, 02:12:00 PM
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on February 21, 2006, 06:33:00 PM
At my discharge, Straight was brought up. Naval Investigation Services had found out to wherefores of time/dates/people. It was because of Straight, I was "Released from Duty". Yet, it was also because of Straight, I did not go to Levenworth. Odd or Gawd? --- those who know me well, know, or that will know me well, know what I mean.
Conspiracy Theory, is just that...theory. When you look at the board of directors, the mel semblers, mayors, sheriffs. princesses and first ladies that can think of nothing more to say than, "JUST SO NO". The concept of a Conspiracy Theory leaps forward to the Conspiracy Possibilty/Probability.
What was done to us, our legacy is hidden in a plan/obvious view. Then cloaked with well wishes from do-gooders (for lack of a better term) and done "because it's the best thing for the child". The whole idea is repugnemt and revolting. If it weren't so real...the idea...that this would be considered entertainment for caloused, cold hearted, punk ass bitches or bitch ass punks that find it entertaining...literally turns my stomach.
::soapbox::
Thanks for letting me share ::puke::
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 01:57:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 22, 2006, 02:17:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-21 23:02:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:
"OK. Listen up playaaas. This is 4 real.
I initially backed away from this forum for a while for a couple of reasons. But this particular post struck a cord with me that I believe deserves further discussion/exploration.
First, though, the couple of reasons that I, as a Straight Survivor, became reluctant to share further posts on this forum:
1) The initial group of people who had shown me support when I first discovered this forum has somehow transformed into a different group of (primarily ?anonymous?) people who were more interested in insulting one another, rather than advocating the support and camaraderie that I had initially experienced when first posting to this forum when I first ?Woke Up? last year. It had seemingly degraded into a group of persons whose answer to the healing we seek was to ?smoke more pot? rather than discuss/share the problems which, in truth, could only be addressed by an understanding of the facts to form the basis for the beginning to a resolution to the ordeal that we had been through and that others are, to this day continuing to endure?. BTW don?t get me wrong I don?t doubt for a minute that my predisposition to drink is much more destructive in the end than smoking pot. I hold no judgments there.
2) When I have posted political type of comments that allude to the bigger picture of what we have been through with Str8, I am inundated with feedback that my posts are irrelevant and have no place on this forum. I have become discouraged by this, and would have liked to have thought that more of those on this forum would see this connection and be inclined to look into it and see the FACTS for what they really are
Now, Dragonfly, my humble comments to you: Your thoughts do not sound silly, you are not paranoid, and so what SO WHAT if you are scoffed at. Your suspicions are well founded. PERIOD.. Upon leaving Straight I was granted a High School Diploma after an ?aptitude test? and then given an above Top Secret security clearance (at the age of 17!!!), and admitted into the United States Air Force. I loyally served with the USAF for four years. Can?t tell ya what I did cause I?d have to kill ya ::flipflop::
Much love to ya?all. ---Str8SurvivorVa
"
Thanx for your extrememly interesting post Str8 survivor. It's good to hear from you again.
You wrote: "FACT: Straight was the continuation of a government experiment on behavior modification techniques".
This is an extremely interesting statement. I don't doubt it, but would none the less be interested in knowing how I can verify this information. You say you found this information "on an open source". What do you mean by that ?? Is there a link you could post that would prove your claim. Your claim is plausible but still too vague. We need more than just your word. We need evidence. Give us the evidence. Show us the proof.
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 22, 2006, 03:41:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 03:45:00 AM
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 22, 2006, 03:51:00 AM
Post by: OKB4RMA on February 22, 2006, 03:57:00 AM
Post by: Withdraw on February 22, 2006, 05:57:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 07:17:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 02:57:00, Withdraw wrote:
"I believe we were ~chosen to be in Straight because of our unique abilities. I for one, would not have been thought of as rebelious if People understood then, Often I was going on ~gut instincts. Mainly at that time to weed out harmful authority figures. So by that.. I was seen as having a problem with authority. When infact.... I felt what they were doing/saying/teaching was wrong or against humanity as I understood it. So I refused to follow them, hence I was a wave maker, a problem... Bang, I'm in Straight which was designed to steal that part of me away.
Even my family says someday.. My ~speaking out for what is right will get me killed, maybe standing at a podium telling my truth. People expect me to die from standing up and speaking the truth as I see it. Because Authority will see me as a threat to their ~way. I have always been this way. Always, even in Straight. What kind of world do people die for standing up for humanity? This kind, thats right! Happens everyday.
So, I honestly believe it is our ~make-up and how we respond to the world which put us in Straight anyhow. Straight was designed to cage us and destroy that which speaks out for the truth. Did the goverment plan it that way? Who knows, but I wouldn't be suprised. Do I still feel like I have an X on my back? Yep, sure do. Sometimes, I too wonder if we are still being ~studied. Maybe so. Do I believe there is a way to ~escape that if so? Newp, I sure don't. It could be much bigger than we are even imagining.. Matrix anyone? :wink:
St8suvivor- Some people attack others, not all. Some only attack back to defend themselves. There is alot more people posting here than anyone realizes..Anon and un-anon. Some are for fun, some are Not. I'm trying to learn to pick my battles here, because I too came here and was horrified at the seemingly un-unified bunch of people. But that is not always so, alot goes on behind the scenes, which most never see. People are ememies, and people are very close... just never know. I'm glad to see ya back too=) I've been taking mini breaks as well. We have to...I can say, I am STILL FREE though!
~Naked PeAcE to all :razz: "
Ok, so I am to believe that because I was barely a 12 year old who was drinking, smoking pot, doing cocaine and going from straight "A"'s in school to failing and constantly skipping school, that the government knew I was going to be trouble for them and found a way to put me in Straight?
Wow.
I'm one of the few who actually were helped to get back into life. I was fucked up and needed some direction. I was in for 14 months and got my shit together. I did not see all the atrocities that were described here, but I do believe that they did happen.
So, what's my point? There seems to be a lot of blame placed on Straight for some very common life situations (i.e. panic attacks, paranoia, etc.). Maybe these are things that would have happened to us even without the Straight experience. I believe dwelling on the blaming of Straight for all current problems may be convenient but counter-productive to healing.
Sorry to disagree with the consensus, but that's what I think.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 07:36:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 09:46:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-22 02:57:00, Withdraw wrote:
"I believe we were ~chosen to be in Straight because of our unique abilities. I for one, would not have been thought of as rebelious if People understood then, Often I was going on ~gut instincts. Mainly at that time to weed out harmful authority figures. So by that.. I was seen as having a problem with authority. When infact.... I felt what they were doing/saying/teaching was wrong or against humanity as I understood it. So I refused to follow them, hence I was a wave maker, a problem... Bang, I'm in Straight which was designed to steal that part of me away.
Even my family says someday.. My ~speaking out for what is right will get me killed, maybe standing at a podium telling my truth. People expect me to die from standing up and speaking the truth as I see it. Because Authority will see me as a threat to their ~way. I have always been this way. Always, even in Straight. What kind of world do people die for standing up for humanity? This kind, thats right! Happens everyday.
So, I honestly believe it is our ~make-up and how we respond to the world which put us in Straight anyhow. Straight was designed to cage us and destroy that which speaks out for the truth. Did the goverment plan it that way? Who knows, but I wouldn't be suprised. Do I still feel like I have an X on my back? Yep, sure do. Sometimes, I too wonder if we are still being ~studied. Maybe so. Do I believe there is a way to ~escape that if so? Newp, I sure don't. It could be much bigger than we are even imagining.. Matrix anyone? :wink:
St8suvivor- Some people attack others, not all. Some only attack back to defend themselves. There is alot more people posting here than anyone realizes..Anon and un-anon. Some are for fun, some are Not. I'm trying to learn to pick my battles here, because I too came here and was horrified at the seemingly un-unified bunch of people. But that is not always so, alot goes on behind the scenes, which most never see. People are ememies, and people are very close... just never know. I'm glad to see ya back too=) I've been taking mini breaks as well. We have to...I can say, I am STILL FREE though!
~Naked PeAcE to all :razz: "
Ok, so I am to believe that because I was barely a 12 year old who was drinking, smoking pot, doing cocaine and going from straight "A"'s in school to failing and constantly skipping school, that the government knew I was going to be trouble for them and found a way to put me in Straight?
Wow.
I'm one of the few who actually were helped to get back into life. I was fucked up and needed some direction. I was in for 14 months and got my shit together. I did not see all the atrocities that were described here, but I do believe that they did happen.
So, what's my point? There seems to be a lot of blame placed on Straight for some very common life situations (i.e. panic attacks, paranoia, etc.). Maybe these are things that would have happened to us even without the Straight experience. I believe dwelling on the blaming of Straight for all current problems may be convenient but counter-productive to healing.
Sorry to disagree with the consensus, but that's what I think.
"
You ate a lot of beans.
Post by: Withdraw on February 22, 2006, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on February 22, 2006, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 22, 2006, 02:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-21 23:02:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:I hear ya about panic attacks (I've had many since my early 20's)....I know for me they are connected to the extreme stress of being conftronted in Str8 all the time like you said.....I just spent half of yesterday trying to regain control of my breating to fend off a panic attack....it was a stressful day at work yesterday, partially becuase I was fearful of getting in trouble for missing a deadline (I made it, but its that fear of confrontation thing in the mix...I just figured out the connection)
"This is when the panic attacks started. I could not function normally. Any time someone asked me a question or engaged me in a conversation or I had to give a presentation, I felt like I was being ?confronted? (ala Straight), and had a severe panic attack."
Quote
"We (Straight Survivors) are the fallout of this (well funded) experiment. While Maia Szalavitz?s book does a good job of accurately documenting the atrocities that occurred when we were imprisoned there, the story of the aftermath is still left to be told.
PTSD is real. But the problem is that most professionals equipped to deal with PTSD and the like are focused on sexual abuse. While this type of abuse is very significant and sincerely worthy of treatment, I assert that there are not sufficient professional resources familiar with or equipped to treat the significant psychological aftermath of the many, many, casualties of the so called ?War on Drugs?.
Yeah I agree with you here. PTSD in the context of the traumatic "treatment" kids are subject to needs to be explored and in the media spotlight if you ask me....In fact...I'm working on that right now...getting it out there I mean. check this out!
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... _survivor/ (http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/magaddiction/comments/interview_with_a_survivor/)
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... s_milford/ (http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/magaddiction/comments/protest_tonight_of_kids_helping_kids_milford/)
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... stigation/ (http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php/magaddiction/comments/kids_helping_kids_a_cincinnati_beacon_real_talk_live_ongoing_investigation/)
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2006, 02:09:00 PM
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 22, 2006, 02:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 02:57:00, Withdraw wrote:
"I believe we were ~chosen to be in Straight because of our unique abilities. I for one, would not have been thought of as rebelious if People understood then, Often I was going on ~gut instincts. Mainly at that time to weed out harmful authority figures. So by that.. I was seen as having a problem with authority. When infact.... I felt what they were doing/saying/teaching was wrong or against humanity as I understood it. So I refused to follow them, hence I was a wave maker, a problem... Bang, I'm in Straight which was designed to steal that part of me away.
Even my family says someday.. My ~speaking out for what is right will get me killed, maybe standing at a podium telling my truth. People expect me to die from standing up and speaking the truth as I see it. Because Authority will see me as a threat to their ~way. I have always been this way. Always, even in Straight. What kind of world do people die for standing up for humanity? This kind, thats right! Happens everyday."
Ya I have that 6th sense too..I was percieved as disobedient and defiant because of this...but I just knew what was bullshit and therefore I knew when something/someone shouldnt be obeyed.
About speaking out, yeah I wonder that about myself...but so be it...I guess my signature explains it all.
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 22, 2006, 02:28:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteSo, what's my point? There seems to be a lot of blame placed on Straight for some very common life situations (i.e. panic attacks, paranoia, etc.). Maybe these are things that would have happened to us even without the Straight experience. I believe dwelling on the blaming of Straight for all current problems may be convenient but counter-productive to healing.
Sorry to disagree with the consensus, but that's what I think."
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Not this line of bullshit again....
Umm...I suggest you educate your self about trauma induced panic attacks/anxiety disorders and childhood trauma induced PTSD.....both are SERIOUS ailments. Chronic panic attacks and/or PTSD is NOT a common life situation. Neither disorder remotely has a thing to do with dwelling in any shape or form. And trying to come to terms with the past is not dwelling!
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 22, 2006, 02:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So, what's my point? There seems to be a lot of blame placed on Straight for some very common life situations (i.e. panic attacks, paranoia, etc.). Maybe these are things that would have happened to us even without the Straight experience. I believe dwelling on the blaming of Straight for all current problems may be convenient but counter-productive to healing.
Sorry to disagree with the consensus, but that's what I think."
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Not this line of bullshit again....
Umm...I suggest you educate your self about trauma induced panic attacks/anxiety disorders and childhood trauma induced PTSD.....both are SERIOUS ailments. Chronic panic attacks and/or PTSD is NOT a common life situation. Neither disorder remotely has a thing to do with dwelling in any shape or form. And trying to come to terms with the past is NOT dwelling!
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 07:26:00 AM
I am not saying that people don't have PTSD from Straight. What I'm saying is maybe they should search a little more and see if there aren't still behaviors that are causing those effects currently instead of blaming it all on the past.
Post by: RTP2003 on February 23, 2006, 08:13:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-21 23:02:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:
"OK. Listen up playaaas. This is 4 real.
I initially backed away from this forum for a while for a couple of reasons. But this particular post struck a cord with me that I believe deserves further discussion/exploration.
First, though, the couple of reasons that I, as a Straight Survivor, became reluctant to share further posts on this forum:
1) The initial group of people who had shown me support when I first discovered this forum has somehow transformed into a different group of (primarily ?anonymous?) people who were more interested in insulting one another, rather than advocating the support and camaraderie that I had initially experienced when first posting to this forum when I first ?Woke Up? last year. It had seemingly degraded into a group of persons whose answer to the healing we seek was to ?smoke more pot? rather than discuss/share the problems which, in truth, could only be addressed by an understanding of the facts to form the basis for the beginning to a resolution to the ordeal that we had been through and that others are, to this day continuing to endure?.
I think you are painting with a rather broad brush here. Granted, there are plenty of kooks and downright assholes here, but there can also be useful insights and perspectives to be gained, it just requires a bit of sifting to get to. A bit of caution as to who to trust is also in order, as many of those kooks and assholes seem to enjoy playing "group", or maybe that is the only way they know how to interact with others.
As far as the advice to "smoke more pot", I certainly advocate it, but not as a mere "alcohol substitute". Marijuana is one of the best medications for the treatment of PTSD, and it's use also has the benefit of helping to "short-circuit" Straight programming because to use it is to violate the entire foundation of Straight's fucked up philosophy. While much of the pro-marijuana banter can seem childish, or downright stupid at times, if you can "snort between the lines", so to speak, you will find that many survivors of Straight, Inc. use it as a medicinal tool to help them cope with the experience. I don't think you are being snobbish or hypocritical in the slightest in regards to your comments about marijuana vs. alcohol, I think you may be a little mistaken about your belief that smoking marijuana has no benefits for Straight victims and survivors. Discussing the facts and gaining an understanding of the ordeal is of great importance, I agree, but the use of marijuana for coping with PTSD is a very valuable tool. To simply dismiss it as "druggie bullshit" is to fall prey to more of Straight's programming and conditioning, I recommend the use of marijuana for Straight survivors not only for it's inherent medicinal qualities, but also as a means of defying Straight, Inc.'s programming, and doing so on a conscious level---NOT from some notion of "powerless inevitability", but as a means of asserting one's separation from Straight's indoctrination.
Quote
2) When I have posted political type of comments that allude to the bigger picture of what we have been through with Str8, I am inundated with feedback that my posts are irrelevant and have no place on this forum. I have become discouraged by this, and would have liked to have thought that more of those on this forum would see this connection and be inclined to look into it and see the FACTS for what they really are
Again, this is where the sifting through shit becomes important. There are some really deranged people on these forums, and often their paranoia gets in the way of useful, meaningful discussion and conversation. However, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you." A lot of interesting theories as to the extent of Straight's influence and purpose have been thrown around, many of which seem to be well-grounded in fact, not merely figments of paranoid imaginations.
Quote
FACT: Straight was the continuation of a government experiment on behavior modification techniques. The ?rehabilitation? of ?troubled teens? was the perfect alibi for the furtherance/funding of these studies. Good for funding, good for politics, good for votes, good for gov?t research. Period.
We (Straight Survivors) are the fallout of this (well funded) experiment. While Maia Szalavitz?s book does a good job of accurately documenting the atrocities that occurred when we were imprisoned there, the story of the aftermath is still left to be told.
I agree that only half of the story is beginning to be told, the aftermath of Straight, and the psychological, emotional, and all-too-often physical damage lingers in many of us, long after the abuse factory shut down. Too many times I have seen the destructive effects of Straight, many, many years after the last MI was written or the last rules rap attended. Abusive situations such as the one we were in leave various traumas and suffering for numerous reasons in addition to the day-to-day mental (and physical) tortures. The fact that we were told it was "therapeutic" has caused many of us to have a distrust of anything remotely resembling mental health treatment, and since most of us were placed their by our parents, and many betrayed by siblings during the ordeal, relationships and issues of misplaced or ill-placed trust often occur. Add thias to the constant belittling of and assault on our sense of self-worth, and it's pretty amazing that we have survived at all. Many did not. That speaks volumes in and of itself. Straight was an all-too-real quack "therapy" for an imaginary "disease", the "cure" being far worse than the "illness" ever could have been, sort of like cutting off a hand to get rid of a hangnail.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with these observations, and I hope you will continue to contribute to the forum with your insights and perspectives on the ordeal that was/is Straight, Inc.
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 08:32:00 AM
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 10:22:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 06:29:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Well, I am PARANOID!!!!!
I think there is an element of truth to my paranoia.
I think we psychically bonded in Straight.
I don't really know much about psychic bonding.
I think there are people that DO understand that bond.
I think those people could very well have understood that power from the very begining of Seed and Straight etc.
I think we are effecting each other to this day, as a group.
I think it is very possible that someone still works for Straight, creating forums, organizing protests etc. just to keep an eye on the long term experiment and also to see how much sway they can still muster.
I am wondering and wondering and the possibilities are getting darker and darker.
I still think it's so wierd that my original post about this, my induction into the monkey house, got erased.
That Frank Discussion happened to be the one to re post it.
that the other day I typed in monkey house in the search and NOTHING came up.
then a few hours later, Frank Discussion bumped that thread out of the blue.
That freaks my shit a little bit to say the least.
"
Ok, you're right. YOU ARE FUCKING PARANOID!!
Perhaps some of the accusations that have been made lately are not so far fetched...hmmmm. :scared:
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
Come on people. :lol:
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 12:20:00 PM
Post by: teachback on February 23, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:20:00, dragonfly wrote:
How did Frank Discussion know I was searching for the Monkey House thread that morning a few weeks ago?
Why is it that he was the one to repost it when it disappeared originally, several months ago?
Your guess is as good as mine..
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 12:44:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 01:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:44:00, dragonfly wrote:
I mean if there is a way for The Evil Doers In Power to remotely influence and affect Straightlings, might they not occassionally get their wires crossed so to speak the same way the phone tappers replayed my recorded voice to me?
What do you mean by *remotely* influencing survivors?
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 01:14:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:20:00, dragonfly wrote:
"How did Frank Discussion know I was searching for the Monkey House thread that morning a few weeks ago?
Why is it that he was the one to repost it when it disappeared originally, several months ago?
I trust that he understands my questions and won't take offense at them.
"
I believe you, dragonfly. Just remember your heart is still inside no matter how scary anybody is being.
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 01:16:00 PM
Post by: teachback on February 23, 2006, 01:19:00 PM
Quote
I believe you, dragonfly. Just remember your heart is still inside no matter how scary anybody is being.
Pfffttt.... :roll: :roll: :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 01:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 10:19:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Quote
I believe you, dragonfly. Just remember your heart is still inside no matter how scary anybody is being.
Pfffttt.... :roll: :roll: :lol: "
Oh Frank, what's wrong? He's making wierd noises, has anyone taken his temperature? I think he might not be feeling too good.
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 02:35:00 PM
But my first thought is this, DF. No, you're probably not paranoid. But trips are like dreams, all made up of alpha wave stuff and imagery. I don't think they (whoever they may be) are litterally tracking and influincing us directly as individuals. But I do think your description is probably a fairly good allegory for what is happening.
Never mind the "it will be scoffed at" stuff. I've found it useful to tag any thoughts that present in the passive voice as fnords. Sometimes, they actually escape my lips. I hate when that happens. But, damned near always, it's worth the while to rephrase in the active voice and take a moment to mark who and why I would be averse to naming them (often "them" is me).
So, now I go throw newspapers. BBL
[sigh] I should find a sad, forlorne wavey gremlin guy.
Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 03:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-21 09:22:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
At the least it is/was a program designed to head off any threat from the youth to the established order of society.
I think this is one minor error. What is this "established order of society" of which you speak? I think it's just the same as the "moral majority" or "Christian coalition". The proponants would like to believe that it's established and that what it is is a society. I think it's neither. I think it's the same fucked up nightmare rendition of the New World Order of which Wells and Papa Büsh spoke so fondly.
I think the whole aim of the Program (inside the warehouse and the lives of us individuals who got sucked in there, as well as the much vaunted ideal of aDrug Free America, which only exists on a map of Flat Earth) is to supplant our societies and cultures w/ their own version of what society should be (you can one pick up on sale at Walley World)
I also think that, in their own warped little minds, they believe certain tenetes of faith:
- This "established society" is established firmly in reality, not just in their delusional little minds.
- This New World Order is better, w/o question, than any competing culture, be it the thousands of years old Confucian, So. Asian, Germanic and Celtic or American native cultures and philosophies.
- Anyone who can't see that plain truth as clearly and unquestioningly as they themselves see it must, therefore, be mentally ill and in need of "help" to gain sanity.
As de dawg chases his tail, the leading lights of the Conservative factions of our own upstart American culture have now come full circle to the ideologies and methods employed against the various peoples of the former Soiet Union.
Forced treatment = Stalinist reeducation.
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Gandhi
Post by: 85 Day Jerk on February 23, 2006, 04:17:00 PM
One thing I remember is that my schoolwork was closely monitored. Whereas my parents showed rank indifference to my grades at school, Mrs. Pete, Liz Cassidy, Marnie Sykes, and Chris Casselor all knew intimate details of my school day. Mrs. Pete even asked me one day, how I felt having a girl help me get caught up in American Literature. How in the hell could anyone know about that? It was my first period class, and the door was always closed. As far as I know, there was noone affiliated with the program in that area. There were alot of rats though, and maybe someone saw me talking to Diane in the halls or something.
All I know about school is that I simply flew through it and devoured my assignments with ease. After spending a summer in hell at the program I was eager to learn and accomplish something. My talent for Geometry was astounding, and I picked up on my artwork really well too. Another thing was my sense of direction. I could find addresses with uncanny accuracy and without needing a map. Other people from the program could do the same thing, it was really weird. Another thing I picked up was being able to take things apart and put them back together again really fast.
I guess the biggest thing we all got was our "Awareness." Mine was a curse for a really long time. It took me a good 10 years or so before I was finally able to "turn it off" and just go on with a normal life. It was a real drag to look at people and pretty much know what they were going through and feel empathy for people and then find out that pretty much nobody really gives a shit about you. My Awareness did'nt come back to me until I started working with children, and then it creeped back slowly with each passing day. Now it is more like a camera shutter, opening and closing very quickly so that I do not get caught up in other peoples problems, yet I still possess a clear picture of the situation. As far as spooks and black ops and all that shit, did'nt happen in the seventies, although we did set the ground work for all the others.
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 04:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-22 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ok, so I am to believe that because I was barely a 12 year old who was drinking, smoking pot, doing cocaine and going from straight "A"'s in school to failing and constantly skipping school, that the government knew I was going to be trouble for them and found a way to put me in Straight?
Wow.
No, you were just an incidental casualty. Your parents were gullible and the apple don't fall far from the tree. Some of us landed up in the warehouse by other means. Hunker and watch, chile...
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 04:36:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 23, 2006, 04:37:00 PM
When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign. I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power. I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.
I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth. Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda. I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did. I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order. These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities. Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning. Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day. These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives. I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception. Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.
I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment. I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry. I was expected to follow my fathers lead. All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers. Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played. I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way. I became a threat and a potential revolutionary. A prime candidate for $tr8.
$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave. Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority. ::dove::
___________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 04:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 06:29:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Well, I am PARANOID!!!!!
I think there is an element of truth to my paranoia.
Paranoia is unfounded fear.
Quote
I think we psychically bonded in Straight.
I think we were born that way, and not just bonded to other hairless apes but to all critters and non critters. But that's just me.
Quote
I don't really know much about psychic bonding.
I think there are people that DO understand that bond.
I think those people could very well have understood that power from the very begining of Seed and Straight etc.
I'm more inclined to believe that they thought they knew quite enough about it and went about mucking around in affairs they never had any business mucking around in.
Quote
I think we are effecting each other to this day, as a group.
I think so too.
Quote
I think it is very possible that someone still works for Straight, creating forums, organizing protests etc. just to keep an eye on the long term experiment and also to see how much sway they can still muster.
I am wondering and wondering and the possibilities are getting darker and darker.
I still think it's so wierd that my original post about this, my induction into the monkey house, got erased.
That Frank Discussion happened to be the one to re post it.
that the other day I typed in monkey house in the search and NOTHING came up.
then a few hours later, Frank Discussion bumped that thread out of the blue.
That freaks my shit a little bit to say the least.
"
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a notion without accepting it."--Aristotle
I swear to ya, I don't work for the Program, though I'm sure as anything that I have been a tool at times. I'm talking about things like my big brother's first 'earned' talk at open meeting, when I made him crumble into deep heaving sobs. I didn't mean to. I was only saying what they wanted me to say. I thought I was helping him to humor the lunatics, not helping them to break him. And that has carried through like tar on my heels into things like grilling my lover, back in the bad old days, well into the night trying to force a confession of betrayal or guilt or some damned thing. I just thank the powers that be that he was and remains crazy enough to put up w/ my craziness and to gently guide me away from it and into love and light.
But I am not now nor will I ever intentionally do anything wrt the Program but try to undermine, dismantle and subvert it. Don't take my word for it, though. I'm a fucking complex, intelligent and unpredictable entity. Not so easy to slot right off. But you're a smart guy and at least as invested, I think. Reserve judgement for now, as I've learned to do by default.
One other thought: Never attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by stupidity.
I really am not what you would call a professional coder. I'm more like an avid hobbyist. Sometimes, I fuck up. Sometimes data on this server gets lost or damaged. Sometimes you fuck up, typo one of the search terms or something. But I swear to you I never did delete the Monkey House thread and, if I had, then Franky would not have been able to bump it.
"Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)
--Bastard Administrator
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO
added one other thought: [ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 13:42 ][ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 13:43 ]
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 04:46:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 04:47:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:44:00, dragonfly wrote:
I mean if there is a way for The Evil Doers In Power to remotely influence and affect Straightlings, might they not occassionally get their wires crossed so to speak the same way the phone tappers replayed my recorded voice to me?
Well, there are things in this world that ya just can't explain. I could regale you w/ a couple of stories, but I'll spare ya.
I think maybe we all do have some such powers of bonding and influence. But I also think we get it in more or less equal measure; that them others not only have no more of it than we, but they're probably getting it all wrong just like they did w/ sacharine, formula feeding for babies and so many other things. Don't be skeered!
Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
Post by: dragonfly on February 23, 2006, 04:59:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 23, 2006, 05:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:59:00, dragonfly wrote:
"I think we may or may not "get" them in equal measure.
When I did sesshins I would notice and experience others thoughts but only after sitting next to them for three or four solid days.
We sat next to each other for months and months.
I'm just off in the bushes, I've been here before. In my heart I know it's not stupid paranoia, or just in my mind, it is just beside the point, or it's not that important, or it's just proof that we can do the same with the same power for our own intentions.
Maybe time for a little fucking MONTY PYTHON! Some wine and some salted in the shell peanuts! fuckin' A Billy my munchkin's hungry!!
"
Trust your instincts. You'll be alright. ::dove::
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"In my program at Milton Roy and especially Morgan Yacht Buildings, there were an awful lot of 3rd and 4th phasers that wore various patches on their arms. I myself never did, but others may remember. This was lightyears before the Nicotene patch hit the market. Were we guinea pigs for that? I remember quite a few kids with the patch and they wore them for various reasons, but us lower phasers were never really let in on the whole thing.
Now that is interesting! I hope someone comes along and fills in those blanks. One odd thing I remember from Sarasota (Marnie and Casselor would have been in on this to some degree) is that the only cold medication we were allowed to take was Sudafed :question: :exclaim:
Sudafed® contains the active ingredient Pseudoephedrine
Ask any meth head about that! The more bookish, intellectual types who get off on history and chemistry may even regale you w/ entertaining stories about the history of methamphetamine, aka Nazi Meth. Those fly boys in the military (any other program grads land up in the AF?) might even chime in w/ their recollections about go pills and no go pills.
I do believe there's something to that. I file this under "strongly suspected but unproven." It's entirely possible that they based these policy decisions exclusively on the advice of some crack pot toughlove hate group member w/ a medical degree, like ferinstance Donald Ian MacDonald.
Quote
It was a real drag to look at people and pretty much know what they were going through and feel empathy for people and then find out that pretty much nobody really gives a shit about you.
Well, you may take comfort in my take on Program "Awareness". We never did gain any super hero powers in that regard. What we did get was more like a curse. We adopted the ability to make snap judgements about everyone and everything around us and then to invest in them full faith and confidence asif we were dealing in the realm of demonstrable fact. Bullshit!
We all have gut feelings. Sometimes they're right on the mark. Other times we're way, way off. Empathy is good and kind and light. Damning a whole person to the limitations of what you think you know about them based on those immidiate assumptions is dark magics.
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 05:50:00 PM
But yenz are getting way ahead of me. Please don't hold up for my sake. I WILL get back and reel this all in as soon as I can. Mean time, I just wanted to say to you, Dragonfly, don't waste a half a second worrying about it. I understand completely. I like you too, enjoyed hanging with you guys and look forward to doing it again. If paranoia is what we're talking about, and not reason and precience then I must be paranoid too. But I don't think so. It's all good, as far as I'm concerned.
Later!
Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)
Post by: teachback on February 23, 2006, 06:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:37:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Eudora,
When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign. I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power. I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.
I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth. Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda. I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did. I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order. These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities. Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning. Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day. These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives. I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception. Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.
I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment. I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry. I was expected to follow my fathers lead. All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers. Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played. I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way. I became a threat and a potential revolutionary. A prime candidate for $tr8.
$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave. Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority. ::dove::
___________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY."
Interesting theories you have here; now allow me to get up on my soapbox for a minute. Straight, Inc. was a scam to make $ off of parental fear of their kids being or becoming "addicted" to drugs. It was an attempt at controlling kids perceived as unruly. I pretty much stop there with it. You & WD like to take it a step further and drag the government in, etc... You both say these things as if they were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. "Radical youth"? Come on, man...do you really buy into this supposition? Sure, a lot of us didn't like school (myself included) but what makes you so sure that Straight was setting itself out to do away with "kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning"? I'm not saying that we didn't perceive these things as teens...but at what point do you make the leap from the known to all of this stuff about being a "threat and a potential revolutionary"? I mean, come on....
And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters..
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 06:44:00 PM
I've been wondering about "Awareness"
Great Parlor Trick. Freaks folks out after a while though. Does anyone wonder what exactly it is? Heightened sensitivity to non-verbal cues? Something more? ADD literature refers to a state of awareness called hyper-focus. I have that. Tune out the world while reading or thinking. Tune in to a detail or concentrate on one thing so hard that odd things happen. Nowadays I tell people that my "bull-shit detector" is highly sophisticated.
I had it bad. I wondered about shizophrenia. Thought I could "read" people. Eventually, I was able to turn the volume down on it, but despite being out of practice, it's still there.
It's come up before:
Situational Awareness - battlefield term.
In the Zone - Sports term.
Paranoia - fear others dislike.
I remember taking tests in Straight VA.
Myers-Briggs first. Then, I was asked to take another - never learned the name. I think I actually took several tests while early on my phases, and then another series close to graduation.
I remember signing a waiver and putting my social security number on it. Twice. First for a trip to the Pentagon. We were told it was for a background check, but then the trip was cancelled. Again when Nancy Reagan and Princess Di came. A while back I did some work in DC, and a secret service guy asked for my ID. Came back and handed me a "special pin". He said "You've been checked out several times before". He told me the pin should be worn so that other Secret Service Agents would know I was a "multiple approved". What the hell is that?
I asked to see the test results once, when I was on staff. (they weren't in my file). I was handed a one page summary by some Exec. (Paige?)
It said I had a 12th grade reading level. I don't think this was what they tested.
Went to Nova. Aced anything I took.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 23, 2006, 07:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 15:02:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:37:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Eudora,
When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign. I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power. I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.
I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth. Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda. I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did. I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order. These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities. Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning. Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day. These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives. I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception. Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.
I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment. I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry. I was expected to follow my fathers lead. All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers. Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played. I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way. I became a threat and a potential revolutionary. A prime candidate for $tr8.
$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave. Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority. ::dove::
___________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY."
Interesting theories you have here; now allow me to get up on my soapbox for a minute. Straight, Inc. was a scam to make $ off of parental fear of their kids being or becoming "addicted" to drugs. It was an attempt at controlling kids perceived as unruly. I pretty much stop there with it. You & WD like to take it a step further and drag the government in, etc... You both say these things as if they were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. "Radical youth"? Come on, man...do you really buy into this supposition? Sure, a lot of us didn't like school (myself included) but what makes you so sure that Straight was setting itself out to do away with "kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning"? I'm not saying that we didn't perceive these things as teens...but at what point do you make the leap from the known to all of this stuff about being a "threat and a potential revolutionary"? I mean, come on....
And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters.."
That's just the way I see it Frank. I mean I understand that $tr8 was also a money scam that played on parental fears, that's for sure. But in addition to that I really think that it was also a way to keep anti-establishment youth from developing into adults who were capable of destabilizing the authoritarian power structure in society. I was more than an unruly kid who didn't like school. I was an idealist who believed in the spiritual transcendentalism of the individual as the only real authority. Metaphorically speaking God is in me, and I will resist wholeheartedly any attempt by external authorities to convince, coerce or otherwise blackmail me into believing otherwise. My rebellion against authority had intention and purpose. It was to truly be free, as I was born to be. Seems all my damn life no matter where I turn ever'one wants a piece of me; wants me to serve their agenda, but I am not a tool. I wasn't born to be a slave. I am a human being. I have to live according to my nature. In a society which is bent on using people as tools I am a social revolutionary(I don't know...maybe that term is a little strong, but I don't know what word would be more accurate). I think it's obvious that the main reason I was placed in $tr8 was because the school system and my parents had decided that I was getting too far outside of the bounds of their control. I wasn't submitting to their program, and therefore would not become a productive cog in their machine. As I grew stronger by the day they became more and more afraid of me and the things I might discover. They were insecure control freaks terrified of my natural instincts. All these social institutions that function as social control mechanisms are the manifestations of a very deep fear of Nature. So yeah I do believe that programs like $tr8, in addition to being other things, are a bulwhark against social revolution set up by the establishment. The public school systems' primary function is to brainwash students to become nationalists and make them submissive to Authority, hence the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance every morning by the class as a group and all the patriotic songs the children sing, etc. $tr8 is just an extension of the school system. A lot of us kids who ended up in $tr8 programs were just the stubborn, independent, free thinking types who placed a high value on our own personal integrity and autonomy. When the school systems' authoritarian program of intimidation didn't take, we, the strong willed individuals who were filtered out and targetted for re-acculturation ended up in $tr8. These institutions are all tools of oppression and exploitation. This is what I see.
::dove::
I've tried to articulate my thoughts clearly but I'm not so sure I've been sucsessful.
Hey, ya wanna hear somethin' really beautiful ?? It's basically what I'm tryin' to say:
"Babylon System" by Robert Nesta Marley
"We refuse to be
What you wanted us to be
We are what we are
That's the way it's going to be
You can't educate I
For no equal opportunity
Talking about my Freedom
People, Freedom and Liberty
Yeah, we've been trodding on
The winepress much too long
Rebel, Rebel
We've been trodding on the
Winepress much too long, Rebel
Babylon system is the vampire
Sucking the children day by day
Babylon system is the vampire
Sucking the blood of the Sufferahs
Building church and university
Decieving the people continually
Me say them graduating thieves
And murderers, look out now
Sucking the blood of the Sufferahs
Tell the children the truth
Tell the children the truth
Tell the children the truth right now
Come on and tell the children the truth".
(I got my fist in the air right now)Peace!
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 08:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"In my program at Milton Roy and especially Morgan Yacht Buildings, there were an awful lot of 3rd and 4th phasers that wore various patches on their arms. I myself never did, but others may remember. This was lightyears before the Nicotene patch hit the market. Were we guinea pigs for that? I remember quite a few kids with the patch and they wore them for various reasons, but us lower phasers were never really let in on the whole thing.
From what I recall, those were not "patches" as you call them, but band-aids to cover tattoos.
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 08:23:00 PM
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
"
[/quote]
Thanks for dismissing my experience. Just because I did not experience the same aweful things as others did, this invalidates my experience at Straight? Thanks for the objectivity.
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 08:29:00 PM
[/quote]
Couldn't it be that that was the newest OTC cold remedy at the time? You act as if all the knowledge we have today was known back then. Oops...oh wait...the conspiracy...sorry...my bad.
Geez!
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 08:53:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 10:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:20:00, dragonfly wrote:
"How did Frank Discussion know I was searching for the Monkey House thread that morning a few weeks ago?
Maybe he didn't know. Maybe he just missed the thread for the same reasons you did, cause it was a good thread. Who knows, maybe yenz renewed interest in it was even sparked by some of the same conversation in other threads and offline, outside of this forum. Or maybe great minds just think alike. Or maybe it was just coincidence.
Look, if you want a crash course in cause attribution, take up programing. You'll cry, you'll holler, you'll gnash your teeth spending hours upon days tracking down non-existant bugs due to misattribution. But you'll hone your skill.
Psychedelics often produce psychotic and even violent behavior in those who have never used them.
--Timothy Leary
Post by: Withdraw on February 23, 2006, 10:48:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2006, 11:25:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 15:02:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters.."
I don't see any contradictions here. In fact, not only can both positions be true, if one is true then the other is practically inevitable.
Just crack any history book NOT available in the public school system. Read the Annals of Tacitus. I think Gutenberg Project has the whole damned thing online for free. Tacitus could have been writing about us here and now today. Same goes for all of the classic philosophers and, I would imagine, for the unknown wise guys and natural leaders who we never hear about.
Power hungry ppl have always, down through history, without fail taken advantage of any means available to make slaves of as many others as they can. Just look around at the social, economic and political landscape of the `60's and `70's from the point of view of the Duponts, the Büsh, Herriman, Walker cartel and all of their ilk. What would you do if you were them?
What makes you think they've stopped? When, precisely, did they stop? What made them stop?
People are still motivated by about the same impulses as ever we were. There's absolutely nothing new or unusual about what's going on now and the deep dark things we're discussing now. Not even this, though I find this the most troubling; stupid fucking people in this day and age don't know their history and think either 1) the fucking sky is falling cause they just notice they're not living in Ward and June Cleaver's Mayfield or 2) anyone who notices and dares posit conjecture about it is paranoid and crazy.
All this just because politicians are acting like politicians, plebes are acing like plebes, and perverts and reprobates of all socioeconomic stripe are acting like perverts and reprobates.
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.
Will Rogers, American humorist, political commentator and cowboy philosopher
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2006, 12:11:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
This particular forum does ramble, but some of it rings true.
I've been wondering about "Awareness"
Great Parlor Trick. Freaks folks out after a while though. Does anyone wonder what exactly it is? Heightened sensitivity to non-verbal cues? Something more? ADD literature refers to a state of awareness called hyper-focus. I have that. Tune out the world while reading or thinking. Tune in to a detail or concentrate on one thing so hard that odd things happen. Nowadays I tell people that my "bull-shit detector" is highly sophisticated.
I had it bad. I wondered about shizophrenia. Thought I could "read" people. Eventually, I was able to turn the volume down on it, but despite being out of practice, it's still there.
Consider an alternative explanation? You do have influence on the people around you. Lots of it. Doesn't matter much whether it's Johnny Dep looks or an imposing stature or ass ugly like they only grow in your neighborhood or a disturbing, but entertaining, dwarfishness. Or maybe just that spooky kid quality this abstract they so well nurture in us all.
Even unintentionally, we all have influence, subtle and not so subtle, over the people around us. Remember the Asch experiments? Here's a page on his work if you're not familiar:
http://www.psych.upenn.edu/sacsec/about/solomon.htm (http://www.psych.upenn.edu/sacsec/about/solomon.htm)
That's how intake confessions and n/o come introductions happen. That's how Lybbi MacDonald was able to stand by her bizarre story about having been a 4'6", 90lb 16yo heiress to a fortune w/ a $1,000/dy H habit. Bear in mind, these are 1970 dollars we're talking about; pre-Nixon's explicit depreciation.
And yet she said it, time after time in front of a group of alleged junk fiends, their parents, the press... everybody and told that tall tale and never was questioned on the paticulars, so far as I know, for somewhere around 30 fuckin' years!
Do you think you might be sort of unconciously working the program on those around you? Plecebo effect, accute focus (it's a feature, not a bug!) w/ social pressure, yah know?
Quote
It's come up before:
Situational Awareness - battlefield term.
In the Zone - Sports term.
Paranoia - fear others dislike.
Payin attention - Crazy Mac, and much to be encouraged, too :wink:
Quote
I remember signing a waiver and putting my social security number on it. Twice. First for a trip to the Pentagon. We were told it was for a background check, but then the trip was cancelled. Again when Nancy Reagan and Princess Di came.
That would sure be worth knowing more about! That would have been during the Riddile years, wouldn't it? Was Richard Schwartz there then too?
Quote
A while back I did some work in DC, and a secret service guy asked for my ID. Came back and handed me a "special pin".
He said "You've been checked out several times before". He told me the pin should be worn so that other Secret Service Agents would know I was a "multiple approved". What the hell is that?
I wouldn't even venture a guess.
Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2006, 12:29:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 16:43:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
An eyeful!
:nworthy:
Yeah, yeah! I see things just about exactly like that but for one detail. If you're talking about American culture and politics, we are the establishment! These upstart fascist socialist new world order freaks are the rebels. And more and more ppl are starting to say so less and less rhetorically.
Here's the ticket, Mark Twain wasn't always viewed as quaint and folksey. In his day, he was called sardonic, dark, rappier witted, often unfriendly, profane, inflamatory and worse. Also, for a time, the WORLD's most loved author, by decree.
Ever read The Law of the Land (http://www.usconstitution.net/). One fun way to do this is to take that guitar down to Indianna and throw an impromptu street party in celebration of
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-pa-wc.html)The drug war places Leo in a round room and instructs him to piss in a corner.
--Antigen
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 21:31 ]
Post by: teachback on February 24, 2006, 12:51:00 AM
Quote
pirate wrote:
I was more than an unruly kid who didn't like school. I was an idealist who believed in the spiritual transcendentalism of the individual as the only real authority. Metaphorically speaking God is in me, and I will resist wholeheartedly any attempt by external authorities to convince, coerce or otherwise blackmail me into believing otherwise. My rebellion against authority had intention and purpose which was to truly be free, as I was born to be. Seems all my damn life no matter where I turn ever'one wants a piece of me; wants me to serve their agenda, but I am not a tool. I wasn't born to be a slave. I am a human being. I have to live according to my nature. In a society which is bent on using people as tools I am a social revolutionary(I don't know...maybe that term is a little strong, but I don't know what word would be more accurate). I think it's obvious that the main reason I was placed in $tr8 was because the school system and my parents had decided that I was getting too far outside of the bounds of their control. I wasn't submitting to their program, and therefore would not become a productive cog in their machine. As I grew stronger by the day they became more and more afraid of me and the things I might discover. They were insecure control freaks terrified of my natural instincts.
Ok...as well as an unruly kid I too was an idealist who believed in something like that.....the individual vs. the state...but I had shunned anything like spirituality, at least for a while there. Punk rock. If you believe in God in you that is certainly your business! Social revolutionary? Well sure, if you want to call yourself that I won't argue with you. Consider me an agnostic who pretty much thinks along the same lines as you do.....and I'm with you as far as that next bit goes, up to a point...in my case, my parents were merely sold on the idea that I was in danger, and str8 promised salvation from this certain "doom" that I was without a doubt (insert sarcasm) headed for...jail, insanity or death. LOL. A productive cog...well that's colorful language there, but yeah, it pretty much amounts to that..control...control-freakism is part of it for sure. They became afraid of you? For real? Had you threatened to kill them? Or perhaps firebomb certain institutions..? The 'rents didn't particularly like bearing witness to my 'natural instincts' either...almost got caught fucking my gf up in my room....LOL
Post by: webcrawler on February 24, 2006, 12:58:00 AM
Quote
The 'rents didn't particularly like bearing witness to my 'natural instincts' either...almost got caught fucking my gf up in my room....LOL"
That was the final straw to send me away in my case :cry:
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2006, 01:03:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:Quote
Now that is interesting! I hope someone comes along and fills in those blanks. One odd thing I remember from Sarasota (Marnie and Casselor would have been in on this to some degree) is that the only cold medication we were allowed to take was Sudafed :question: :exclaim:
Couldn't it be that that was the newest OTC cold remedy at the time? You act as if all the knowledge we have today was known back then. Oops...oh wait...the conspiracy...sorry...my bad.
Geez!"
Of course it could. Why else would a backwater pediatrician like MacDonald recomend it? Or some other.
But it is interesting that they chose that particular drug and now these same sadistic lunatics are trying to outlaw the shit. I think that's mostly about casting meth into the role formerly occupied by crack after angel dust after acid after heroin after cannabis (remember Harry Anslinger's Reefer Madness?) after smoked opium (but, curiously, not patent medicines) after demon rhum (but, of course, not granny's tincture nor her cookin sherry nore the communion wine... no, just hand over the gin, please.). What next?
At the same time, what were the schoolpeople doing? They never did, for all their book learnin and austensible altruism and benevolent mission, take anything close to a properly adverserial position on the Program. There might be a critical comment or question once in awhile. But they'd get shouted down or drummed out. Ask some more great American propaganda (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-04,GGLG:en&q=norman+rockwell).
Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 24, 2006, 01:16:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2006, 01:20:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 19:48:00, Withdraw wrote:
"I agree with most everyone. Where I get stuck is: Was Straight and the like designed on purpose to effect us this way? Or was it just by chance and the Universal laws of things that need to be in place for societies to see needed change.
I think a little bit of both. It's like how a hamlet sometimes becomes urban sprawl. It's a combination of circumstance, oportunity, oportunists and dumb luck.
Quote
On the grand scale of History, certian painful events needed to be in place for change to occur. So in that way, I feel like a casualty. And, because I believe all things happen for a reason and the higher good, I have to believe this was all part of my choosen path. Don't go flaming me! It's just what I believe.
Oh, I wouldn't flame you! I'm about half on board your boat too, except that one toe in the water. I don't think we choose that much. Some things, yeah, but not that much. But I don't care. I'm happy to accept a world view wherein chance plays a big part. Without that chance in the world, we'd never see a baudacious orange, red, brown and deepest gree squash that vaguely resembles some politician.
I think if the pachinka ball had fallen just a little differently for me early on, I might have done much different, much more enjoyable and much more impressive things. I might have been one of those people from whom, circumstances being as they are, I draw inspiration. As it is, damned right I'm getting everything I can out of it, by way of resilience and insight from a valuable, if unenviable, perspective.
Quote
I'm not saying I whole heartedly believe anything, because I'm not so sure I do.
Me neither.
You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!
Kady
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 24, 2006, 01:26:00 AM
I...wrote an eyeful ?? Damn woman, how do you keep up ?? You are incredibly prolific. :rofl:
Peace.
Post by: Withdraw on February 24, 2006, 01:30:00 AM
Post by: teachback on February 24, 2006, 01:32:00 AM
Quote
Thanx for the conversation. Your cool wit' me. I apprecite your comments and questions but I'm gettin' tired now.
Np, may you dream of spontaneously combusting Newton-heads! :smile:
Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2006, 01:42:00 AM
I'm getting tired too. But before I turn in...
My mom was afraid of me that way. She was afraid of all of us. Hell, I think that poor woman was afraid of damned near everything! But my dad wasn't. My dad is who taught me to question everything. They couldn't convince him we were all fucked up because of our smart mouths, he was a world class smart ass. It didn't bother him when we rebelled, within certain reason calculated by an algorythm calculating and comparing certain factors; damage done, damage intended, necessity (the "had it comin'" factor), cleverness, overal execution and extra weight to comic effct.
No, that was not the path to the fear in the heart of an old Sailor who came up dirt poor during prohibition. But those nigger drugs? Now THAT scared him! Would have maybe been enough all by itself, then the tie dyed long haired hippies w/ their Marx and Lenin and soy beans had to glom onto the kind as they did, and that spelt it.
Now? They accusing 13yo kids who toke up a block past the bus stop of bombing the World Trade Centers.
I think they, like Marie Antoinette, are so banefully out of touch with reality (a common Program projection) that they're far overplaying their hand. And ye know how they are, they're too busy congratulating themselves and musing about the coming new well ordered world to notice that their shit's not playin' anymore.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 03:10:00 AM
~WD
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 09:30:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 17:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
"In my program at Milton Roy and especially Morgan Yacht Buildings, there were an awful lot of 3rd and 4th phasers that wore various patches on their arms. I myself never did, but others may remember. This was lightyears before the Nicotene patch hit the market. Were we guinea pigs for that? I remember quite a few kids with the patch and they wore them for various reasons, but us lower phasers were never really let in on the whole thing.
From what I recall, those were not "patches" as you call them, but band-aids to cover tattoos. "
That's what I remember too.
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 09:39:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:
It was a real drag to look at people and pretty much know what they were going through and feel empathy for people and then find out that pretty much nobody really gives a shit about you.
Quote
On 2006-02-23 14:33:00, Eudora wrote: Well, you may take comfort in my take on Program "Awareness". We never did gain any super hero powers in that regard. What we did get was more like a curse. We adopted the ability to make snap judgements about everyone and everything around us and then to invest in them full faith and confidence asif we were dealing in the realm of demonstrable fact. Bullshit!
We all have gut feelings. Sometimes they're right on the mark. Other times we're way, way off. Empathy is good and kind and light. Damning a whole person to the limitations of what you think you know about them based on those immidiate assumptions is dark magics.
Absolutely! :nworthy: :nworthy:
Post by: teachback on February 24, 2006, 09:54:00 AM
Quote
I believe this whole-heartedly also. I also believe though it wasn't by chance I (or any of us' specific people) were choosen (sic) ones to endure and witness it all. I feel there is a reason why we are all comming together now. I just, which i know differs from many views, feel it wasn't by accident or random selection that we were involved. I am hoping that someone here inspires someone else here (randomly) to set in motion a great change for our world. I believe that has already begun.
I like your optimism... time for some coffee! (http://http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/images/smilies/coffee2.gif)
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 24, 2006, 10:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 22:30:00, Withdraw wrote:
"I also believe though it wasn't by chance I (or any of us' specific people) were choosen ones to endure and witness it all. I feel there is a reason why we are all comming together now. I just, which i know differs from many views, feel it wasn't by accident or random selection that we were involved. I am hoping that someone here inspires someone else here (randomly) to set in motion a great change for our world. I believe that has already begun."
I have always sensed that I went through Straight for a reason....never was that reason to get help, but rather to enable me do something else later in life. What that 'something later in life' was I didnt have the first clue for years. But I can say that that nightmare drove me to become an ally to misunderstood kids in general and to advocate on their behalf. Since seeing that other Survivors are gathering so to speak, its been obvious to me that there is a reason for this as well. Fate is the only word that comes to mind right now. Hopefully, the reason is so that the truth can finally come out, so that future generations of kids are spared the nightmare we went though, etc.
Post by: dragonfly on February 24, 2006, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: Rumpofsteelskin on February 24, 2006, 01:08:00 PM
Quote
But those nigger drugs? Now THAT scared him!
Word! Maybe yr pops was afraid you might get yo'self knocked up by one of the bros! :lol:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 24, 2006, 01:48:00 PM
Whats this ??!
And Eudora, I prefer the word proles to plebes.
Post by: Antigen on February 25, 2006, 01:02:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 10:48:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
""...the individual vs. the state..."
Whats this ??!
And Eudora, I prefer the word proles to plebes."
What? No, two entirely different words!
Prole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proles)
If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Froderik on February 25, 2006, 01:19:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 25, 2006, 01:20:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 25, 2006, 01:25:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:02:00, Eudora wrote:
"QuoteOn 2006-02-24 10:48:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
""...the individual vs. the state..."
Whats this ??!
And Eudora, I prefer the word proles to plebes."
What? No, two entirely different words!
Prole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proles)
Thats what I'm sayin'...I rest my case. [ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-25 06:02 ]
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 25, 2006, 01:28:00 AM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 25, 2006, 01:29:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:19:00, Froderik wrote:
"I don't see where ya said plebes..."
Have a seat, jackass! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 01:32:00 AM
Quote
Thats what I'm sayin'...I rest my case.
Excellent point!
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 01:51:00 AM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 25, 2006, 02:32:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:53:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:
"and, oooh Dr. Fucktard. You know that all you need is a good night with a reeeeealy good woman....and all of your cynicycism would be, well, revealed for what it really is... BTW we know who you are, Dr. Fucktard... but we will still keep playing your little game since we LOVE YOU DR FUCKTARD!!! MMMMMM. oooooh. dont stop DR. Fucktard..More...more..more..oooh yea right there....i know you had a rough day..."
You ok over there? ::blushing:: ::rainbow:: :eek:
Post by: Dr Fucktard on February 25, 2006, 09:16:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 25, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:25:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:02:00, Eudora wrote:
What? No, two entirely different words!
Prole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proles)
Thats what I'm sayin'...I rest my case.
Really? Not me. Prole is attached to a nihilist, defeatist, doomsday sort of idea. I don't buy it. I think these things run in cycles. These ruling can only really retain power by our pleasure. By any definition, they're dependent on us for every damned thing. Remember W. on the campaign trail gushing over the nifty bar code scanner at the supermarket? These people couldn't pick their own noses w/o our help.
And there's only so much we'll take. It has always been thus. Power and wealth come w/ helplessness and isolation from reality. The wealthy and powerful sometimes smarten up and encourage education (not schooling) autonomy and distribution of power for the good of their people. http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=7766166 (http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=7766166)
Don't be skeered!
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 09:20:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-25 00:20:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:
"yea you just keep telling yourself that. maybe it will come true... Love ya!!"
::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll::
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 09:22:00 AM
Quote
Remember W. on the campaign trail gushing over the nifty bar code scanner at the supermarket? These people couldn't pick their own noses w/o our help.
(http://http://followthelinks.com/uploaded_images/bathroombreak-787233.jpg)
Post by: dragonfly on February 25, 2006, 09:25:00 AM
Post by: teachback on February 25, 2006, 09:36:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-24 22:53:00, Str8survivorVA wrote:
BTW we know who you are, Dr. Fucktard... but we will still keep playing your little game since we LOVE YOU DR FUCKTARD!!!
Who is he???
Come on...spill it!!!
Post by: Antigen on February 25, 2006, 01:58:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-25 06:25:00, dragonfly wrote:
I still think we were brainwashed for reasons we have yet to discover, by means we have yet to identify, by people we have yet to hear about
Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. Just saying that the most powerful, invisible, seemingly untouchable people at the bottom of all this are 1) probably a whole lot more delusional and haunted than any of us and 2) just flesh and bones, just like us. All it takes, really, is for a whole lot of us docile, easily distracted Americans to join the rest of the world in a habit of healthy skepticism and just quit protecting and supporting the maniacle mindfuckers.
Rampant talking out in group, by whatever means, is (I think) the key to it all.
We did not inherit this land from our ancestors, we borrow it form our children.
Haida
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 11:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 09:20:00, dragonfly wrote:
"How did Frank Discussion know I was searching for the Monkey House thread that morning a few weeks ago?
Why is it that he was the one to repost it when it disappeared originally, several months ago?
I trust that he understands my questions and won't take offense at them.
"
'cause he works for THEM!!!!!
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 11:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:59:00, dragonfly wrote:
fuckin' A Billy my munchkin's hungry!!
"
Fuck NA, Billy, fuck NA.........
Post by: teachback on February 25, 2006, 11:52:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2006, 11:58:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 15:02:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-23 13:37:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Eudora,
When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign. I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power. I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.
I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth. Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda. I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did. I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order. These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities. Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning. Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day. These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives. I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception. Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.
I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment. I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry. I was expected to follow my fathers lead. All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers. Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played. I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way. I became a threat and a potential revolutionary. A prime candidate for $tr8.
$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave. Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.
Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority. ::dove::
___________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY."
Interesting theories you have here; now allow me to get up on my soapbox for a minute. Straight, Inc. was a scam to make $ off of parental fear of their kids being or becoming "addicted" to drugs. It was an attempt at controlling kids perceived as unruly. I pretty much stop there with it. You & WD like to take it a step further and drag the government in, etc... You both say these things as if they were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. "Radical youth"? Come on, man...do you really buy into this supposition? Sure, a lot of us didn't like school (myself included) but what makes you so sure that Straight was setting itself out to do away with "kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning"? I'm not saying that we didn't perceive these things as teens...but at what point do you make the leap from the known to all of this stuff about being a "threat and a potential revolutionary"? I mean, come on....
And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters.."
see how he tries to explain it all away? He's trying to distract us from the truth. His story, while vaguely plausible, is really meant to mislead us from the psychic experiments that the executives at Straight were performinng on us for the CIA and NSA.
Post by: teachback on February 26, 2006, 12:01:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2006, 03:48:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2006, 03:49:00 AM
Post by: dragonfly on February 26, 2006, 09:17:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 26, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-23 21:51:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"
Ok...as well as an unruly kid I too was an idealist who believed in something like that.....the individual vs. the state... Punk rock. If you believe in God in you that is certainly your business! Social revolutionary? Well sure, if you want to call yourself that I won't argue with you."
O.K. well yeah maybe I'm only elements thrown together in some way, not some social revolutionary. I would actually have to calm down a minute and admit that I talk some shit.
Not that I am changing my argument at all, just that I'd talk a little less shit. :rofl: :rofl: :grin:
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2006, 12:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-25 06:18:00, Eudora wrote:
Remember W. on the campaign trail gushing over the nifty bar code scanner at the supermarket? These people couldn't pick their own noses w/o our help.
That was W.'s daddy, Ginger, not W. HE's done lotsa other stuff to prove how out of touch with reality he is, but the bar code scanner awe incident was not one of them. And while I'm here, does anybody else think that the recent preoccupation with Cheney's hunting accident was kind of a smokescreen to keep attention away from other issues?
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 26, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
The natives who had some serious transcendental shit goin' down with their whole way of communin' with nature, or shit! they didn't even have to "commune". The very way these people experienced life was a phenomonal threat to the mostly authoritarian Judeo-Christian belief system of that time(or now). The Natives were nearly killed off and the survivors ruthlessly dispossessed.
The gov't learned how to improve their techniques of control and oppression from returning Korean War P.O.W.s who taught the CIA about mind control to keep ever'body on the reservation. Like an invisible prison around your mind. The existence of $tr8 is part of an already established historical pattern of oppression and social control.
The most threatenin' kids are given the hardest wash.(by the system in general)
Post by: Antigen on February 26, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-26 10:04:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
The gov't learned how to improve their techniques of control and oppression from returning Korean War P.O.W.s who taught the CIA about mind control to keep ever'body on the reservation. Like an invisible prison around your mind. The existence of $tr8 is part of an already established historical pattern of oppression and social control.
The most threatenin' kids are given the hardest wash.(by the system in general)
Well, I think they think they've mastered the techniques. I think they're mistaken. I think they're playing w/ dark magics way above their grade. We're just some of the blowback. I think these same insane generals and busy bodies probably have pissed the same kind of piss in a lot of other faces. No tellin' what the unintended consequences may be.
Pirate, I just want you to consider the possability that your "radical" thoughts and impulses may not be so radical after all; that you're not anything like alone in that regard, probably in the majority. Even though they're well trained like obedient dogs to focus on our differences (we all are, to some degree) we have more in common philosophy wise w/ them damned Marines and those keystone kops that they or the powers that be would like to think about.
Fight em if you have to, but only if you can't turn em.
That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist
Post by: dragonfly on February 26, 2006, 05:40:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2006, 05:42:00 PM
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Fight em if you have to, but only if you can't turn em.
Yeah.
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2006, 08:44:00 PM
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On 2006-02-26 14:40:00, dragonfly wrote:
Fuckin' A Billy
Fuck NA Billy, fuck NA. How many times do I have to tell you, FUCK NA??!!!!???
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My Munchkin's Hungry!!!!!
"
Of course he is. He hasn't been layed in a while....
Post by: Antigen on February 26, 2006, 10:14:00 PM
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On 2006-02-26 14:40:00, dragonfly wrote:
but brainwahing might be a functional thing if it were sustainable and enough folks reproduced healthily within that trance.
I believe it is. The god of nature and physics has smiled upon the ability and inclination to enter a Why I Live at the PO (http://art-bin.com/art/or_weltypostoff.html)[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-26 19:15 ]
Post by: dragonfly on February 27, 2006, 08:09:00 AM
Post by: teachback on February 27, 2006, 09:28:00 AM
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I clicked on my name and it wouldn't let me come back to the thread?
It opened a new window.
Post by: Antigen on February 27, 2006, 11:29:00 AM
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On 2006-02-27 05:09:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Well, sounds like you are saying what my zen teacher said, which is why I decided she was crazy, she said there is not much difference between spiritual practice and brainwashing yourself, I posed the question though.
Sounds like you are saying the same thing.
We are half asleep in our lives, use it to our advantage, brainwash ourselves and our children in a healthy life affirming way, because one way or another we are going to take part in that human trip, might as well program our children to question authority, truly experience thier emotions and consider the effects of thier actions.
Please expound.....
Well, yeah, something like that. I ... believe? Not the way I believe the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. But I take it as probably true, certainly plausible that we all exist in a state of consensus trance (as described at Cantrip.org) We take in a whole lot more information every second than we can possibly pay attention to, and even that is only a small fraction of what's there to be had. So we pick and choose what's worthy of attention, how it fits into our perceptions of reality and what we'll make of it. As long as that works it works. When it doesn't work, when there's something going on that commands attention but doesn't fit our own personal and/or shared story lines, the trance breaks just a little and we (hopefully) rewrite our own rules, filters and responses.
It's normal, natural, even healthy to do this ourselves, to influence each other trances and just enjoy the ride. Life is but a dream, in a very literal sense, I think.
It's something different when sanctimonious assholes try to make a science of the art. They do it without that vital element of voluntarily suspended disbelief. That's brainwashing, thought reform, mind control. It's the difference between love, sex, flirting and all the good stuff and rape.
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What did you do that you should have done long ago Antigen? I clicked on my name and it wouldn't let me come back to the thread? "
I put your quote into the database w/ attribution to dragonfly. http://fornits.com/quotes.php?munchkin (http://fornits.com/quotes.php?munchkin)
There now. I just changed the attribution to the original post instead of your profile.
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2006, 12:20:00 PM
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On 2006-02-22 09:37:00, Withdraw wrote:
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On 2006-02-22 04:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Liars, lots of liars on this thread. People who are not actually Straight survivors/people who pretend they were Straight survivors but it is a known fact that they have an agenda here."
Me? An agenda? I don't have that much time....Never in Straight, me? Newp, I was there...
~~~My point was.. I think places like Straight are created to suppress free thinkers and maybe even to ~study them. Do I think the goverment knew of me personally? Newp, but they sure set up places and propaganda which led my family right to the doors of Straight. Propaganda strictly designed to catch and cage people just like me.
~Pro-Straight Anon- Good, I'm happy someone was helped. I'd hate to think Straight was created just to torture me........ So who was it that helped you adjust? Because I sure as hell never got any re-adjustment skills..... Perhaps they only offer that to staff...... It was never offered to any client that I am aware of.[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-22 09:37 ]"
You belong on a different thread.
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2006, 12:22:00 PM
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On 2006-02-23 13:46:00, dragonfly wrote:
"yeah ginger
it's fucking crazy in my mind sometimes
I met you, like you, smoked up with you, feel so much gratitude for this forum, for YOU! but when I get spooked all that goes out the window and I'm just plain spooked.
I should a stayed away from all them drugs I guess, everything is possible when I remember seeing things that way.
"
Who taught you to feel so much gratitude? Poor dragonfly.
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
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You belong on a different thread.
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Who taught you to feel so much gratitude? Poor dragonfly.
And your point is? Apparently it is you who belongs on another thread Troll.
Post by: dragonfly on February 28, 2006, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2006, 10:09:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2006, 02:03:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on February 28, 2006, 03:28:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 28, 2006, 08:56:00 PM
What about "The Very Best Of Linchpin" ?? I think that'd be really good. :rofl:(whichya)
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2006, 10:00:00 PM
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On 2006-02-28 07:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Could you point to some of his best works to introduce him to someone? "
"Cat's Cradle", "Slaughterhouse Five", "Welcome To The Monkey House" (short stories), "Player Piano", those are some of my favorites.