Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 23, 2006, 12:21:00 AM
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I have a child at HLA and I'm worried about the posts that I have been reading. Does anyone have any current information on the conditions there?
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As far as we can tell things havent changed much.
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My child has seemed to go down hill since going there. They said this is normal and that he will get worse before he gets better. They said not to expect to see any improvement for at least a year.
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On 2006-01-22 21:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My child has seemed to go down hill since going there. They said this is normal and that he will get worse before he gets better. They said not to expect to see any improvement for at least a year."
You are seeing the typical results. The kids do worse and worse (wait until you see how they try to cope with reality when they get home) while HLA says "it's normal." When your kid needs to be pulled because they're doing so poorly they disrupt the environment HLA will tell you that your kid "didn't work the program."
They take credit for the few successes and blame the kids for the many more failures.
You're getting fleeced while your kid gets neglected by unlicensed quacks. GO GET YOUR KID SOME REAL HELP. PULL HIM AND TAKE HIM TO A PROFESSIONAL PROVIDER.
Where in the world did you get the idea that behavior modification can "fix" mental hygiene issues? Oh yeah, HLA told you that. :roll:
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On 2006-01-22 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have a child at HLA and I'm worried about the posts that I have been reading. Does anyone have any current information on the conditions there?"
The person who would know that best is your child. How often are you allowed to talk to him/her? Have you asked? Is your child allowed to speak freely? When is your next visit? Compile a list of questions (concerns) and ask them on the next visit. Ask for copies of your child's 'restriction folders' to review- looking for how often and for what reason s/he was placed on restriciton and for how long. Does the punishment fit the crime?
HLA is too heavy on the punishment aspect of BM, imo. It can cause a child to be confused about how to meet their expectations, when every real, and sometimes perceived, thing is punished. It takes a good while for most kids to figure out what they have to do to get by- learn to respond to their liking, how to 'act' to avoid punishment. Until then, there can be a period of hopelessness, depression, and/or increased defiance; which could land them in RC.
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On 2006-01-22 21:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My child has seemed to go down hill since going there. They said this is normal and that he will get worse before he gets better. They said not to expect to see any improvement for at least a year."
This is a joke. Even the most mentally disturbed kids show great improvement and are normally stabilized enough for outpatient treatment after TWO WEEKS of inpatient treatment.
Lady, these people are hucksters and snakeoil salesmen. Wake up to the facts: BM DOESN'T WORK.
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rum=41&201 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8906&forum=41&201)
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I'm allowed to talk to him once a week for ten minutes, but his phone calls are monitored on their end. Negative talk at the program is considered manipulation. Suicidal statements are punished with restriction...again considered manipulation. Ridgecreek is used as minor infractions mount up. They call it grounding. I call it boot camp. My child complained that he wasn't adequately clothed to keep him warm against the cold at night. I feel like my child is sometimes being punished for the symptoms of his psychological problems. I feel frustrated with the whole process. I thought I was sending him to utopia where he could work on his self esteem and get help for his underlying problems but instead it looks like a gulag. I sent him there because I wanted him to be safe, but I'm afraid I have made a terrible mistake.
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The information on this forum is not reliable. Do not be alarmed. Your child is the best source of information. Also, post on http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) in the program section for information from other parents who CURRENTLY or RECENTLY have kids at HLA. The people on this board are living in the past- and a fantast past, at that.
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On 2006-01-23 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The information on this forum is not reliable. Do not be alarmed. Your child is the best source of information. Also, post on http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) in the program section for information from other parents who CURRENTLY or RECENTLY have kids at HLA. The people on this board are living in the past- and a fantast past, at that."
Like this one:
I'm allowed to talk to him once a week for ten minutes, but his phone calls are monitored on their end. Negative talk at the program is considered manipulation. Suicidal statements are punished with restriction...again considered manipulation. Ridgecreek is used as minor infractions mount up. They call it grounding. I call it boot camp. My child complained that he wasn't adequately clothed to keep him warm against the cold at night. I feel like my child is sometimes being punished for the symptoms of his psychological problems. I feel frustrated with the whole process. I thought I was sending him to utopia where he could work on his self esteem and get help for his underlying problems but instead it looks like a gulag. I sent him there because I wanted him to be safe, but I'm afraid I have made a terrible mistake.
Thought you were sending him to "utopia" huh? Who put that idea in your head? Lemme guess, Kathleen ("Little Stalin") the marketing director?
Did she happen to tell you that HLA's recidivism rate is worse than that of the prison system? How about that "working on self esteem" means a one-size-fits-all behavior modification (punishment) level system? I didn't think so. :roll:
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On 2006-01-23 06:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm allowed to talk to him once a week for ten minutes, but his phone calls are monitored on their end. Negative talk at the program is considered manipulation. Suicidal statements are punished with restriction...again considered manipulation. Ridgecreek is used as minor infractions mount up. They call it grounding. I call it boot camp. My child complained that he wasn't adequately clothed to keep him warm against the cold at night. I feel like my child is sometimes being punished for the symptoms of his psychological problems. I feel frustrated with the whole process. I thought I was sending him to utopia where he could work on his self esteem and get help for his underlying problems but instead it looks like a gulag. I sent him there because I wanted him to be safe, but I'm afraid I have made a terrible mistake."
You should read some stories of how they "treat" anorexia. They start by punishing the child for not eating, then make her stand out in the freezing cold rain as a "consequence" then put her on restrictions for "manipulating."
Sure sounds like some valid clinical processes to me.
Why would you think that an unlicensed residential treatment center is going to provide real therapy that gets to the root of the problem?
What they do is punish the child for exhibiting symptoms of a true psychiatric disorder as if behavior modification addresses psychopathology. Have anorexia and don't eat? Restrictions. Have "ODD" and act out? Restrictions. Have tourettes and curse at a teacher? Restrictions. Learning disabled and act out in class? Restrictions.
What can't be fixed with a little extra punishment? Well, maybe graft. That seems to go on unceasingly at HLA.
YOU HAVE SENT YOUR KID TO UNLICENSED, UNTRAINED, BIZARRELY BEHAVING QUACKS. GO GET YOUR KID and bring him to a professional in your community who can help treat psychiatric disorders in a proven, effective manner.
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On 2006-01-23 06:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
Negative talk at the program is considered manipulation. Suicidal statements are punished with restriction...again considered manipulation. Ridgecreek is used as minor infractions mount up. They call it grounding. I call it boot camp. My child complained that he wasn't adequately clothed to keep him warm against the cold at night. I feel like my child is sometimes being punished for the symptoms of his psychological problems.
You have some legitimate concerns.
Many programs, such as HLA, sprang from the CEDU method, which you can read more about in the CEDU forum. It is typical in 99% of programs to monitor calls and 'consequence' negative comments.
My son was put out overnight at RC with a black trash bag to lay on and a pancho to cover his head. No water, no food, no flashlight. It was cold and he was vomitting. No one in ear shot to hear his calls for help. They have no tent to protect from rattlesnakes, etc and a person who lived there claimed that bears frequently disturbed her trashcans.
You can't punish away suicidal thoughts, or any other human distress.
Seek an independent professional who can access the form of 'treatment' your child is receiving. The professionals I consulted with advised me to remove my son asap. Read the link above.
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On 2006-01-22 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have a child at HLA and I'm worried about the posts that I have been reading. Does anyone have any current information on the conditions there?"
What are the first names of your child's counselors?
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My problem with disclosing that information is that if any one at HLA is monitoring this site they may be able to figure out who my child is and I don't want them to be punished because I'm speaking out about my concerns. I just want to know if anyone has had any positive experiences. I tried the link to struggling teens but was unable to locate any positive reports other than the campus visit.
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Go up there unannounced and insist on speaking to your child privately.
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Yes, they are monitoring this site and they have sued several people here for posting. That doesn't stop anyone.
If you're worried about how your child is being treated, what good is a "positive report"? Is that going to make it OK to punish your kid for the problems he went there to help? Get grip, lady.
Your child is being harmed, your gut tells you to go get him, but anyone's anonymous positive experience is going to make that ok? GO GET YOUR KID. Trust what he's telling you.
The staff there will say ANYTHING to keep your kid there. They'll tell you he's manipulating, that kids get worse before they get better, that he'll be deadinsoneorinjail without their program or whatever other lies they need to feed you to keep your cash.
Wake up, lady, before you have bigger problems on your hands.
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On 2006-01-23 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My problem with disclosing that information is that if any one at HLA is monitoring this site they may be able to figure out who my child is and I don't want them to be punished because I'm speaking out about my concerns. I just want to know if anyone has had any positive experiences. I tried the link to struggling teens but was unable to locate any positive reports other than the campus visit."
If you feel they will PUNISH YOUR KID for you asking questions, WHY IN HELL would you look for reasons to KEEP HIM THERE? That makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
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On 2006-01-23 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My problem with disclosing that information is that if any one at HLA is monitoring this site they may be able to figure out who my child is and I don't want them to be punished because I'm speaking out about my concerns.
Wise. Assume any anon post is from HLA. They refuse to identify themselves.
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On 2006-01-23 06:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
Negative talk at the program is considered manipulation.
That kinda gives them license to do whatever the hell they want to these kids now doesn't it.
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On 2006-01-23 07:15:00, Deborah wrote:
Wise. Assume any anon post is from HLA. They refuse to identify themselves."
Nah, not all of us. Some choose to be anon to avoid the retaliation of HLA or their supporters.
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Please, PLEASE go get your child. I am new to this site, but what I have read about HLA so far is overwhelmingly negative. Do not ignore your gut instinct - if it feels wrong, then it's wrong. I agree that behavioral management is not an effective way to help a child. Anyone with basic knowledge of psychology would agree.
From what I hear, the school officials will do everything in their power to keep you from taking your child, but you are the legal guardian and have more rights than they do.
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On 2006-01-23 07:18:00, LMJ630 wrote:
"Please, PLEASE go get your child. I am new to this site, but what I have read about HLA so far is overwhelmingly negative. Do not ignore your gut instinct - if it feels wrong, then it's wrong. I agree that behavioral management is not an effective way to help a child. Anyone with basic knowledge of psychology would agree.
From what I hear, the school officials will do everything in their power to keep you from taking your child, but you are the legal guardian and have more rights than they do."
Just go upthere unannounced and tell them to go get your kid and ALL of his belongings and his file.
If you encounter any resistance whatsoever to your demands, call the police immediately. They cannot refuse to let you take your son or to give you all of his belongings and records before you leave.
There is absolutely nothing they can do to stop you. If they try they will be arrested for falsely imprisoning your child. They know this and will immediately fold if you tell them you are calling the police.
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On 2006-01-23 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My problem with disclosing that information is that if any one at HLA is monitoring this site they may be able to figure out who my child is and I don't want them to be punished because I'm speaking out about my concerns. I just want to know if anyone has had any positive experiences. I tried the link to struggling teens but was unable to locate any positive reports other than the campus visit."
It sounds like you are a new parent to HLA, so there are several kids in your childs Peer Group. They would likely not be able to figure out who you are. Even so, HLA does not mind at all any parent asking questions. I would advise you to take the advise of the person who said to show up unannounced, if you have that many concerns. Ask to meet alone with your child, there will be no problem with that. Ask to meet alone with your childs counselors. There will no problem with that. Ask to meet with other students who have been their for a while. There will be no problem with that.
If you have any discreptancies between what your child is saying and what the staff are saying then I would suggest a meeting with everyone together to clear the air.
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I'd be willing to bet that these kids will be put into group this week and squeezed hard to rat on eachother so that the staff can find out who's been "manipulating" their parents. Once they single out the kid they suspect the punishment will be swift and decisive. I personally have seen this many times.
You are correct in assuming that they will punish your child for your concern.
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how old are the kids there?
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I believe they tell parents "13-17" but I have seen several as young as 12 and many are forced by court order to stay past 18 as "post grads."
HLA encourages parents to have their kids declared "incompetent" before they reach 18 so they may be forced by court order to remain there. Of course, the tuition collection never stops.
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Your flags have gone up...Do not meet with
them. Go get your child. Once you meet with
them they will know your intentions. THey will
'grill' your child to find out what your
child said to you...Your childs' life will be
miserable after that. Far more miserable than it is now. Trust me...Then go see an attorney,
because they will not refund your money..However,
before that, take your child to a reputable
therapist for evaluation. Your child will need it,more than before..trust me.Also, if you are
not emotionally strong enough, take your attorney. It will expedite things along and make
it far easier on you...YOur heart is heavy enough.
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Listen to your child...only you can really hear
them...trust that, too. It is enate...trust their voice.
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I agree with the general feedback so far. Don't ask for a damned thing. You are the customer wrt HLA and wrt your son, well he's your son. On top of legal authority, you have the ultimate God given authority to take him out for ice cream any damned time you please.
Don't accept just a talk, don't buy into any bullshit about breaking the magical spell by removing him from the sacred, hallowed and well guarded ground of HLA. Take him to see Ruby Falls or the Chattanooga Choo Choo or the Atlanta Underground. Demonstrate to him that you can and will remove him from the place, hear what he's got to say and BELIEVE him.
If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs,
you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors,
shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general
nature, in spite of individual exceptions.
Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787
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On 2006-01-23 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The information on this forum is not reliable. Do not be alarmed. Your child is the best source of information. Also, post on http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com) in the program section for information from other parents who CURRENTLY or RECENTLY have kids at HLA. The people on this board are living in the past- and a fantast past, at that."
aw, that's not a fair statment. it's doubtful that this ST troll has even read the hla forum.
i think s/he should read ST, Fornits, and theses too:
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... 209ac55f83 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=101303633&Mytoken=24956e46-682b-4ae1-bb6c-58209ac55f83)
http://groups.myspace.com/HiddenLakeAcademy (http://groups.myspace.com/HiddenLakeAcademy)
click 'View All Topics' to read all postings.
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On 2006-01-23 07:55:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I'd be willing to bet that these kids will be put into group this week and squeezed hard to rat on eachother so that the staff can find out who's been "manipulating" their parents. Once they single out the kid they suspect the punishment will be swift and decisive. I personally have seen this many times.
You are correct in assuming that they will punish your child for your concern.
"
That is not a correct assumption. Maybe it was that way 10 years ago, but that is not how things work now.
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On 2006-01-22 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have a child at HLA and I'm worried about the posts that I have been reading. Does anyone have any current information on the conditions there?"
What are some of your specific concerns? You do not have to name your child if you do not want to do so. What are you hearing from your child that is of concern to you? I would be happy to either validate your concerns or put them to rest.
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On 2006-01-23 13:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
What are some of your specific concerns? You do not have to name your child if you do not want to do so. What are you hearing from your child that is of concern to you? I would be happy to either validate your concerns or put them to rest."
Who are you that you would be able to 'validate' or refute what goes on there? I'm not saying you can't, but what connection do you have that you would be in a position to do so?
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Some Concerns:
Drugs on campus
Overzealous restrictions that accumulate into time at Ridge Creek
Monitoring out going mail to parents and refusing to send if they don't consider it "productive"
Confrontational group sessions
Not addressing academic needs (especially if sent to Ridge Creek)
Violence on campus especially in dorms
Facing restrictions if negative in any way, especially if they don't want to reveal dark secrets
Restrictions for psychological symptoms
To name a few....
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On 2006-01-23 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-01-23 07:55:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I'd be willing to bet that these kids will be put into group this week and squeezed hard to rat on eachother so that the staff can find out who's been "manipulating" their parents. Once they single out the kid they suspect the punishment will be swift and decisive. I personally have seen this many times.
You are correct in assuming that they will punish your child for your concern.
"
That is not a correct assumption. Maybe it was that way 10 years ago, but that is not how things work now. "
Funny, because there have been quite a few parents who have reported exactly this in the past few months. Must be "lying, manipulative teen-aged" parents, huh?
Why don't you say how you are qualified or experienced to say anything at all about HLA? Do you seriously expect that you can put parents' concerns "to rest" while posting anonymously? Say who you are and how you're qualified to talk to the subject matter and maybe you can make a difference. Until then you're just a nobody.
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On 2006-01-23 13:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Some Concerns:
Drugs on campus
Overzealous restrictions that accumulate into time at Ridge Creek
Monitoring out going mail to parents and refusing to send if they don't consider it "productive"
Confrontational group sessions
Not addressing academic needs (especially if sent to Ridge Creek)
Violence on campus especially in dorms
Facing restrictions if negative in any way, especially if they don't want to reveal dark secrets
Restrictions for psychological symptoms
To name a few...."
I think it is pretty clear that this is not a concerned parent making this post, but rather an HLA basher who is posing as a parent. That's pretty sick.
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What is "pretty sick" is that the poster's statements are dead on accurate. Also, it's "pretty sick" for you to presume who anyone is or isn't without even saying that you have a dog in the fight. What are you embarrassed of? Can't hold up your end of an intellectual discussion of HLA's crappy little program?
Get a username and state your point or shut up. Your commentary is useless without the opportunity to compare it to the source. You're just wasting everyone's time.
If you want to troll relentlessly, that's your business, but it's clear you don't want to talk about this parent's valid concerns about the facility.
Step up to the plate with some answers or get lost.
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Because I don't believe it is actually a parent who is posting this. Just give me the counselors names and I will believe you. And don't give me this stuff about being scared that we will figure it out and torture the poor child. That's rediculous. You are just scaring people by saying stuff like that. If you give me the name of the childs counselor, I will believe that you are truly concerned. Otherwise, I have no reason to believe you are anything but a sicko posing as a parent trying to feed on peoples fears.
If you are truly a parent, I apologize for asking you to prove yourself, but the sick games that most of the people play on this site make it neccessary.
209
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" I have no reason to believe you are anything but a sicko..."
Interesting coming from someone who refuses to identify herself. Don't you think you are viewed as a random "sicko" here as well?
Say who you are and why YOU'RE here. Maybe you could provide some insight, but until you say who you are you are just another random "sicko" who gets off on the pain of children. Prove otherwise or move along, troll.
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Unfortunatly, I am an HLA parent. That's what brought me to the board in the first place. I've been through the parent's workshops and listened to their spill, yet I hear conflicting information from others in the program along with my child. My purpose for posting on this board is to get information. I said these are some concerns that I have, that does not mean it is a fact. I wanted to see if anyone had heard of similar experiences or could possibly dispel this information.
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Do you also want my son's peer group number? Would that help? Come on give me a break...I will tell you when he was at Ridge Creek we talked with Steve Sorrells. Does that help?
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On 2006-01-23 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do you also want my son's peer group number? Would that help? Come on give me a break...I will tell you when he was at Ridge Creek we talked with Steve Sorrells. Does that help?"
Sure, it would help identify your kid so he could get that crap punished out of him for "manipulating" you.
Lady, these people would just as readily sick Quirk and Quirk on you for asking questions as to try to answer anything you ask with legitimate concern.
What in Heaven's name does it matter who your kid is? Isn't it just a TAD BIT more important to know who's asking? For Christ's sake, I see how so many of you go for this in the first place.
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Here we go again with the anonymous HLA 'supporters' pontificating like the moral majority without ever letting anyone know how or why they're qualified in any way to speak about the issues.
The carefully crafted anonymity does nothing to bolster their viewpoints or credibility, but my, how they carry on regardless...
"Concerned Parent" please get a username (it's very easy) and drop me a Private Message and I'll be glad to help you understand what will not ever be explained to you in this public venue.
Best Regards.
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On 2006-01-23 13:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
Who are you that you would be able to 'validate' or refute what goes on there? I'm not saying you can't, but what connection do you have that you would be in a position to do so?"
Anyone else hear crickets chirping? Wonder if they'll ever get around to answering that. :roll:
Ok, so here we have a parent that is worried about their kid's safety at HLA. We have some HLA employee (apparently by their own admission) trying to dig out who this kid is or which group he's in but the employee refuses to identify themselves or even at the very least reveal how they would be in a position to check on this kid.
Anyone else getting a sick feeling in their stomach? :???:
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Dear HLA stooge,
The parent (or in terms you can understand: pay check) has listed off her concerns. Now are you going to answer them as you said you would?
Also while I can respect your desire to keep your name private perhaps you'd be willing to share with us in what capacity you serve at HLA? After all she should be assured shes not talking to some sicko who likes to play games on here right?
Or should we just assume its Kathleen yet again?
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I've been waiting and I don't hear anyone refuting my concerns. I don't see why it was so imperative to let you know what my son's counselors' names are. I hope I dispelled your suspicion that I'm not actually an HLA parent. If you need further proof, let me know. Oh by the way, the violence that I was referring to happend in the boy's dorm. Believe me now.
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Dear Parent,
Your concerns are very valid and right on base. Take the lack of response for what it is. A hesitiancy to tell the truth. Do the right thing here and go with what your gut is telling you.
An escapee
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On 2006-01-23 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-23 07:55:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I'd be willing to bet that these kids will be put into group this week and squeezed hard to rat on eachother so that the staff can find out who's been "manipulating" their parents. Once they single out the kid they suspect the punishment will be swift and decisive. I personally have seen this many times.
You are correct in assuming that they will punish your child for your concern.
"
That is not a correct assumption. Maybe it was that way 10 years ago, but that is not how things work now. "
Cone on now, Biiiilllllll. Are you saying that HLA no longer has Fallout?
That's not what kids freshly out of hla say. Isn't it true that when something big is going down, a whole peer group or the whole campus can be on restriction until someone breaks and confesses? If you don't know this is happening, you should keep a closer watch on your staff.
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On 2006-01-23 14:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because I don't believe it is actually a parent who is posting this.
Frankly, I'm about even money between an actual worried parent and some joker working for Joe Farrell trying to elicit actionable statements.
If you really are a worried parent and you're still sitting there typing away, you're dumber than a brick. I mean that. Why would you still be sitting here w/ someone austensibly from the school posing these kinds of questions to you? Just stop and think about that for a moment. What would be the point? If I were you, I'd get in the car right now and be there and back in time for the evening news.
Of course, if you're just trolling, then this makes perfect sense. Say now! Is this something they're teaching at the advanced seminars now? Cause I could swear they're working from the same script in the Spring Creek Lodge thread.
My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I had no character.
-- Charles Barkley, on hearing Tonya Harding proclaim herself "the Charles Barkley of figure skating"
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On 2006-01-23 15:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-23 13:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
Who are you that you would be able to 'validate' or refute what goes on there? I'm not saying you can't, but what connection do you have that you would be in a position to do so?"
Anyone else hear crickets chirping? Wonder if they'll ever get around to answering that. :roll:
Ok, so here we have a parent that is worried about their kid's safety at HLA. We have some HLA employee (apparently by their own admission) trying to dig out who this kid is or which group he's in but the employee refuses to identify themselves or even at the very least reveal how they would be in a position to check on this kid.
Anyone else getting a sick feeling in their stomach? :???: "
You are putting words in my mouth. I want to know who the COUNSELORS are, not the kids name. That will verify that you are a parent. It is easy to pick Steve Sorrells name off of the web site and say that you talked with him. It is harder to give me the names of the two counselors your child works with because that is not published. I don't see the problem with that, being that you willing gave the name of his/her counselor at RCI.
By the way, I hope you enjoyed Steve. He is a truly good guy. He builds wonderful rapport with the kids.
Or, just ask me a specific question about something going on right now. I just want to verify you are who you say you are.
I am really very willing to address the specific concerns that you have.
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I don't feel comfortable telling you who the counselors are and don't see how it is pertinent to the discussion. I simply wanted to know if anyone had any information to substantiate the rumors and the stories that I have heard from my child and other children in the program. I"ve heard enough to where I am making arrangements to go to HLA this week. Thanks for those who addressed my concerns.
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On 2006-01-23 20:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't feel comfortable telling you who the counselors are and don't see how it is pertinent to the discussion. I simply wanted to know if anyone had any information to substantiate the rumors and the stories that I have heard from my child and other children in the program. I"ve heard enough to where I am making arrangements to go to HLA this week. Thanks for those who addressed my concerns."
You are certainly welcome to come down any time you would like. Again, what are the specific rumors and specific stories you have heard from your child. I would be more than happy to address them.
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Aww to bad.
If the person really was a concerned parent than you just lost another 5 or 6 new cars. Cause we all know the bottom line is all that matters.
If the person was just another plant than yet another plan was foiled and you walk away with nothing but having wasted your time.
I am interested in your choice of name though. Does this mean youre going to finally be willing to tell the truth about HLA?
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All I am saying is that I am willing to answer the parents questions address the concerns. I have not yet seen specific rumors or concerns from this parent to address yet.
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On 2006-01-23 20:12:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-01-23 20:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't feel comfortable telling you who the counselors are and don't see how it is pertinent to the discussion. I simply wanted to know if anyone had any information to substantiate the rumors and the stories that I have heard from my child and other children in the program. I"ve heard enough to where I am making arrangements to go to HLA this week. Thanks for those who addressed my concerns."
You are certainly welcome to come down any time you would like. Again, what are the specific rumors and specific stories you have heard from your child. I would be more than happy to address them."
Oh, here goes the witch hunt. What makes you think the kid said anything? Maybe you accidentally got hold of a kid who's parent is litterate and somewhat intellectually curious. Maybe they've looked into some of the core people's histories and affiliations. Isn't that why Len's online bio went *poof*? Used to have all this:
Hidden Lake Academy (HLA) was founded in 1994 by Leonard Buccellato, PH.D, in response to the overwhelming need for a school that would fill the existing gaps between services provided by residential treatment centers, group homes and traditional boarding schools. As a practicing psychologist and Educational Consultant for more than twenty years, Dr. Buccellato has referred his young clients for help and therefore has had ample opportunity to observe many alternative schools. This placed him in a unique position enabling him to develop the best possible program for teens that need specialized services.
Now, just a rather gangster looking portrait (sorry, that's just my impression) and about twice the size of any of the others, not a word about what qualifies him to found and run such an organizations.
So, to which schools and programs did Len refer people for 20 years up till he started his own? Let's see, what was around then. Oh, there's always been CEDU and Elan, then the Straight spin offs and pre WWASP places like Bethel and CCM. Could that be where he got his background?No synonym for God is so perfect as Beauty. Whether as seen carving the lines of the mountains with glaciers, or gathering matter into stars, or planning the movements of water, or gardening - still all is Beauty!
-- John Muir
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO
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My concerns are again:
I've heard that drugs are rampant on campus.
Children are punished for exhibiting psychological symptoms such as cutting, restricting food.
Restrictions are handed out for the smallest infractions to the point where many of the kids restrictions pile into days, then weeks, and so on.
I was told at my campus orientation that Ridge Creek was used as a last resort measure, which I know is not true...and even though I liked Steve Sorrell I have an issue that the treatment there is far from being therapeutic.
I sent my child to this camp in the hopes that he would find healthy interests like art, music, drama, all the things that sold me on the program on the first place, but instead he is endlessly chopping wood.
I've heard of an incident in the dorm that sent one boy to the hospital if you are affiliated with HLA you will be familiar with the incident.
My child is behind academically because of going to Ridge Creek and because of this now he may lose his next visit.
These are a few of my concerns and why I am making travel arrangements as we speak.
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When youre done with those do you think you could finally address the licensure issue with HLA.
How is it legally licensed as both?
Why doesnt HLA abide by RTC regs for the state of GA?
Why dont students have a means to air greivances to an objective person?
Let me know cupcake. Also tell us what your job is over there.
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On 2006-01-23 20:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My concerns are again:
I've heard that drugs are rampant on campus.
Children are punished for exhibiting psychological symptoms such as cutting, restricting food.
Restrictions are handed out for the smallest infractions to the point where many of the kids restrictions pile into days, then weeks, and so on.
I was told at my campus orientation that Ridge Creek was used as a last resort measure, which I know is not true...and even though I liked Steve Sorrell I have an issue that the treatment there is far from being therapeutic.
I sent my child to this camp in the hopes that he would find healthy interests like art, music, drama, all the things that sold me on the program on the first place, but instead he is endlessly chopping wood.
I've heard of an incident in the dorm that sent one boy to the hospital if you are affiliated with HLA you will be familiar with the incident.
My child is behind academically because of going to Ridge Creek and because of this now he may lose his next visit.
These are a few of my concerns and why I am making travel arrangements as we speak."
Fair enough. I think you have some valid concerns. Concerns that I would have if I had my child at HLA. You also have some misconceptions that I will attempt to clear up.
Look for a posting on this thread sometime tomorrow morning. It will be lengthy, and I am going to bed now.
Good night, all.
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How are you qualified to talk about what goes on at HLA?
Your user name is "HLA Truth" but if you're not a current employee then how can you talk about what's going on there today? Also, if you are an employee I suspect you'll be doing nothing more than trying to deflect criticisms to keep sales strong. Just sbout every single HLA employee that has posted on this site has told outright lies about the program and harrassed and denigrated poeple who challenged their information.
I think that your input probably isn't truthful and I basically completely discount anything you say without identifying yourself and stating how you are affiliated with HLA and are qualified to talk about it. You're just on here trying to keep the cash flowing nothing more.
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On 2006-01-23 20:30:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-01-23 20:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My concerns are again:
I've heard that drugs are rampant on campus.
Children are punished for exhibiting psychological symptoms such as cutting, restricting food.
Restrictions are handed out for the smallest infractions to the point where many of the kids restrictions pile into days, then weeks, and so on.
I was told at my campus orientation that Ridge Creek was used as a last resort measure, which I know is not true...and even though I liked Steve Sorrell I have an issue that the treatment there is far from being therapeutic.
I sent my child to this camp in the hopes that he would find healthy interests like art, music, drama, all the things that sold me on the program on the first place, but instead he is endlessly chopping wood.
I've heard of an incident in the dorm that sent one boy to the hospital if you are affiliated with HLA you will be familiar with the incident.
My child is behind academically because of going to Ridge Creek and because of this now he may lose his next visit.
These are a few of my concerns and why I am making travel arrangements as we speak."
Fair enough. I think you have some valid concerns. Concerns that I would have if I had my child at HLA. You also have some misconceptions that I will attempt to clear up.
Look for a posting on this thread sometime tomorrow morning. It will be lengthy, and I am going to bed now.
Good night, all."
Sorry that it has taken so long to get back with you on these points...
Drugs are rampant on campus- Yes, we had some kids recently who were caught with drugs on campus. Three kids actually shared one joint that one of them had snuck onto campus. All students involved went to Ridge Creek. Other than that one incident there have been no other times in recent memory that drugs have been on campus. On the rare occasion, however, they do get onto campus.
Students are punished for cutting or restricting food- Actually the opposite is true. We have a policy against this. I will note that this has not always been the policy. Years ago students were put on restrictions for such things. I believe the program is much more clinically sound now than it was in the early days. This does not mean that kids who do these things are exempt from restrictions if they do other things that would get every other kid on restriction. If their state of mind is too severe to handle typical student life here, we will reccomend that they move on to more of a hospital setting.
Mulitiple days on restriction- THis is an exageration of the facts. Yes, kids can build up multiple days on restrictions and in the past kids were on restriction for an infinite ammount of time. Now, if a kid is on restrictions for more than 15 days in one month, we hold a special staffing to determine how to get that child back on track. This will often result in sending the child to RCI. When they come back, the slate is wiped clean. If they don't go to RCI, we look at creative ways in which we can get the kids off of restrictions and able to join the majority of the student body who are not on restrictions.
RCI as a last resort- In my mind RCI is used as a last resort, other than dismissing a child. There are certain behaviors, however, that will almost automatically send a child to RCI such as intimidation of another student, physical violence, bring drugs onto campus, abusing medications. Pretty much anything that severly inhibits the groth of another student. In terms of RCI not being clinical enough, I don't think you will find another wilderness program in the country that is more clinical. All of their therapists are state licensed and the program is licensed by the state as well. They are very clinical.
Your child is always on restriction- This is where I would challenge you a bit. If your child is always on restriction and unable to participate in the fun activities of the school, I would put that problem back onto your child. He has the ability to not be on restrictions. I want you to realize that 80% of the school is NOT on restrictions. Most of them are going about their business, following the rules, and being able to participate in activities. Let your child work through the beginning part of this program and realize that he has to be the one to make the changes.
Boy to the hospital- Yes. This did occur. Several boys beat up another boy for making racial remarks to one of them. All of the boys involved are now at RCI. The boy that got beat up went to the hospital to get stitches in his lip. HLA is vigilent at stopping any violence or intimidation on campus. Once it is found out it is dealt with swiftly. HLA has not tolerance for this kind of thing on its campus.
Academically behind after RCI- Kids are given six weeks to make up their work following RCI. Also, student are allowed to work on their academics while they are at RCI. You may not want to hear this, but if your child has not gotten themselves complete after RCI, it is entirely their fault. The kids are given plenty of time to catch up and the vast majority of kids get caught up very quickly. If your child is truly working and still having trouble getting caught up, I encourage you to call the academic department and discuss what the problem is. They will work with you. Just make sure your child is TRULY working and not just trying to make excuses for himself. Again, the VAST majority of kids make their academic work up very quickly.
I hope this has been of some help to you. I am sure much of what I have written will now get trashed. Just remember, there is a big difference in how things are now as opposed to when most of the posters on this site were here. Ultimately, you have to decide what is best for your child and only you can decide that. Good luck and maybe I will see you when you come up.
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HLA "Truth"....did you ever answer the question as to what capacity in which you are involved with HLA? If not, why not?
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I hope this has been of some help to you.
No, it really hasn't been a help. How can anyone trust what you're saying as HLA's mouthpiece when you won't identify yourself or even say if you work there. So, no, it hasn't helped at all.
I am sure much of what I have written will now get trashed.
And rightfully so. Who are you and by what authority are you speaking for HLA? If you won't answer this, then save some time and quit posting your dubious opinions.
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On 2006-01-24 11:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
I hope this has been of some help to you.
No, it really hasn't been a help. How can anyone trust what you're saying as HLA's mouthpiece when you won't identify yourself or even say if you work there. So, no, it hasn't helped at all.
I am sure much of what I have written will now get trashed.
And rightfully so. Who are you and by what authority are you speaking for HLA? If you won't answer this, then save some time and quit posting your dubious opinions."
I am not HLA's mouthpiece. I have not been asked to come onto this site by anyone. I do so because I want to. I think it is obvious that I work at HLA.
I will not identify any more of myself because I do not want you people figuring out who I am and harrassing me or my family. You have no problem with others keeping the anonymity. All you ask from others is a screen name, which I have given you. The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass.
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On 2006-01-24 11:32:00, HLA Truth wrote:
I am not HLA's mouthpiece.
You sure are acting like it.
I have not been asked to come onto this site by anyone. I do so because I want to. I think it is obvious that I work at HLA.
In what capacity?
I will not identify any more of myself because I do not want you people figuring out who I am and harrassing me or my family. You have no problem with others keeping the anonymity. All you ask from others is a screen name, which I have given you.
Well, if others come on here and claim that they can confirm or aleviate any concerns then you're damn right people would expect you to at the very LEAST disclose what you do there.
The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass."
No, it would be to make sure that you have access to the info you're claiming to.
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On 2006-01-24 11:32:00, HLA Truth wrote:
You have no problem with others keeping the anonymity.
This ain't no fucking AA meeting. If you're going to hold yourself up as being able to speak to what does or does not go on in HLA then your "anonymity" goes out the window. Well, if you'd like to be taken seriously even a little bit.
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The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass.
Actually it is HLA who has been threatening and harrassing posters, not vice-versa.
Personally, I think you're full of shit and you work in HLA's marketing department. That's why you don't want to say how you're employed there.
Also, you said the program is "clinically sound." This indictes that you are not a mental health professional because professionals find programs like HLA to be innefective at best and downright harmful at worst. You're claims of clinical soundness are completely spurious.
Like others have told you, nobody can take anything you say seriously because you just can't show any facts to support your claims. You haven't even tried to show evidence for what you say. No evidence, no credentials, no nothing.
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On 2006-01-24 11:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass.
Actually it is HLA who has been threatening and harrassing posters, not vice-versa.
Personally, I think you're full of shit and you work in HLA's marketing department. That's why you don't want to say how you're employed there.
Also, you said the program is "clinically sound." This indictes that you are not a mental health professional because professionals find programs like HLA to be innefective at best and downright harmful at worst. You're claims of clinical soundness are completely spurious.
Like others have told you, nobody can take anything you say seriously because you just can't show any facts to support your claims. You haven't even tried to show evidence for what you say. No evidence, no credentials, no nothing."
Note to the parent who had concerns:
Notice the typical response that occurs when someone very calmly and clearly states the truth. The posters on this board cannot stand reasonable responses. This is the same thing a lawyer does when they know that a witness is telling a truth that they don't like. If you can't attack the substance, attack the credibility and the character. Just cheap tricks.
To everyone else:
I have stated why I will not tell you who I am. If you would like to ask me some other questions about HLA that might prove that I know what I am talking, I will gladly anwer those. If revealing my identity is the only way for you to accept my anwers, then that is your choice.
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On 2006-01-24 11:53:00, HLA Truth wrote:
Notice the typical response that occurs when someone very calmly and clearly states the truth. The posters on this board cannot stand reasonable responses. This is the same thing a lawyer does when they know that a witness is telling a truth that they don't like. If you can't attack the substance, attack the credibility and the character. Just cheap tricks.
Notice that you completely avoided the fact that HLA DOES in fact sue people for stating their opinions.
To everyone else:
I have stated why I will not tell you who I am. If you would like to ask me some other questions about HLA that might prove that I know what I am talking, I will gladly anwer those. If revealing my identity is the only way for you to accept my anwers, then that is your choice. "
Yes, it is.
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On 2006-01-24 11:53:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-01-24 11:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass.
Actually it is HLA who has been threatening and harrassing posters, not vice-versa.
Personally, I think you're full of shit and you work in HLA's marketing department. That's why you don't want to say how you're employed there.
Also, you said the program is "clinically sound." This indictes that you are not a mental health professional because professionals find programs like HLA to be innefective at best and downright harmful at worst. You're claims of clinical soundness are completely spurious.
Like others have told you, nobody can take anything you say seriously because you just can't show any facts to support your claims. You haven't even tried to show evidence for what you say. No evidence, no credentials, no nothing."
Note to the parent who had concerns:
Notice the typical response that occurs when someone very calmly and clearly states the truth. The posters on this board cannot stand reasonable responses. This is the same thing a lawyer does when they know that a witness is telling a truth that they don't like. If you can't attack the substance, attack the credibility and the character. Just cheap tricks.
To everyone else:
I have stated why I will not tell you who I am. If you would like to ask me some other questions about HLA that might prove that I know what I am talking, I will gladly anwer those. If revealing my identity is the only way for you to accept my anwers, then that is your choice. "
Don't bother wasting your time. You can't be considred a valid source of any information. The substance of what you say has been abundantly shown to be false by people who attended HLA. There are hundreds of posts by scores of people who show that what you say is completely untrue.
I just think it's not fair to the parents looking for information that you won't tell them that you work in the marketing department and are not in any way qualified to argue clinical validity.
You're only here for damage control and everyone who reads your posts can see this very clearly.
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The last post is right on.
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Ya'll, hyper down already! HLA Truth says they work for the program. I'm a little surprised, but pleasantly, that the program will allow a current employee to engage here. Now don't be skeered, I'll let ya'll know if I hear from Joe complaining about someone pretending to represent the program. Meanwhile, I'm happy to accept this just as it is and to discuss the particulars for as long as this holds out. ::dove::
Now, I'd like to address just this one thing right now. Maybe we can get back to other points later. But for now, I find it more productive to take just one topic and slap it around like a red headed stepchild and see what's left standing.
On 2006-01-24 11:00:00, HLA Truth wrote:
Your child is always on restriction- This is where I would challenge you a bit. If your child is always on restriction and unable to participate in the fun activities of the school, I would put that problem back onto your child. He has the ability to not be on restrictions.
While I'm confident that you believe this, that doesn't make it true. I keep hearing from kids and parents who describe a regime in which the only way to progress and stay in good standing is to garner the approval and faith of staff and other clients. I've also heard that you use essentially the same client heirarchy as any other Synanon based program, so that a fairly large portion of those decisions rest not even in the hands of dubiously qualified adult staff, but in the opinions of other allegedly troubled kids.
It's all quite subjective to begin with. Now, throw in the double binds. Say a staffer becomes convinced that a kid is, malingering. But the kid's not doing it on purpose, they're actually ill or injured or just not able to perform as well as the staff thinks they should. But once the accusation is made, there's no way out but to do the impossible.
How do you handle that?
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
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I have a problem with her doling out opinions on the clinical soundness of their program because she works in marketing and has no credentials to be discussing clinical applications.
She's a huckster and a shylock, not any kind of mental health professional. Keep it to what you know, lady: Damage Control and Sales.
Leave the clinical discussions to those of us who know what we're talking about.
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On 2006-01-23 20:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't feel comfortable telling you who the counselors are and don't see how it is pertinent to the discussion. I simply wanted to know if anyone had any information to substantiate the rumors and the stories that I have heard from my child and other children in the program. I"ve heard enough to where I am making arrangements to go to HLA this week. Thanks for those who addressed my concerns."
Any updates? Did you go get your kid yet?
If so, what kind of shit did they pull on you to try to keep your kid?
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On 2006-01-24 14:31:00, Eudora (fka ~ Antigen) wrote:
"Ya'll, hyper down already! HLA Truth says they work for the program. I'm a little surprised, but pleasantly, that the program will allow a current employee to engage here. Now don't be skeered, I'll let ya'll know if I hear from Joe complaining about someone pretending to represent the program. Meanwhile, I'm happy to accept this just as it is and to discuss the particulars for as long as this holds out. ::dove::
Now, I'd like to address just this one thing right now. Maybe we can get back to other points later. But for now, I find it more productive to take just one topic and slap it around like a red headed stepchild and see what's left standing.
On 2006-01-24 11:00:00, HLA Truth wrote:
Your child is always on restriction- This is where I would challenge you a bit. If your child is always on restriction and unable to participate in the fun activities of the school, I would put that problem back onto your child. He has the ability to not be on restrictions.
While I'm confident that you believe this, that doesn't make it true. I keep hearing from kids and parents who describe a regime in which the only way to progress and stay in good standing is to garner the approval and faith of staff and other clients. I've also heard that you use essentially the same client heirarchy as any other Synanon based program, so that a fairly large portion of those decisions rest not even in the hands of dubiously qualified adult staff, but in the opinions of other allegedly troubled kids.
It's all quite subjective to begin with. Now, throw in the double binds. Say a staffer becomes convinced that a kid is, malingering. But the kid's not doing it on purpose, they're actually ill or injured or just not able to perform as well as the staff thinks they should. But once the accusation is made, there's no way out but to do the impossible.
How do you handle that?
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
"
I personally don't see that. The way for a student to progress is for them to follow the rules, do their work in Realizations, and get involved with extracurricular activities. This same philosophy is true in any organizations.
I don't know anything about Synanon programs so I cannot comment on that. I can say that kids have very little to do with whether or not another kid is in good standing. It really has more to do with each child taking personal responsibility for themselves.
In terms of your comment about if a child is milingering. I am not going to say that a mistake has never been made and a child has been asked to do something they are uncapable of. I am sure it has happened. I can say that our staff are pretty sensitive to what a child can and cannot do. If anything they err on the side of caution now adays. Again, I am not saying it has always been this way, especially in the days of the Bentz'.
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Sorry. The above post was me.
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You almost made it.
Okay let's discuss some of the comments you made which I personally take issue with.
I will say that as you have to this point remained respectful I will do the same.
>>>>>>>Other than that one incident there have been no other times in recent memory that drugs have been on campus. On the rare occasion, however, they do get onto campus. <<<<<<<
What is the definition of "recent memory"? Considering the fact that recent students have stated that drugs are often on campus I think further clarification is needed. Espically considering you yourself acknowledged that "they do get onto campus."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We have a policy against this. I will note that this has not always been the policy. Years ago students were put on restrictions for such things. I believe the program is much more clinically sound now than it was in the early days.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
How right you are...at least in the second sentence. Tell me why the change?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the past kids were on restriction for an infinite ammount of time. <<<<<<<<
Very true. Something Mrs. Gray vehnemtly denied.
>>>>>>>>>>All of their therapists are state licensed and the program is licensed by the state as well. They are very clinical. <<<<<<<
Fine, can you explain what as and if HLA is licensed? Not RC, and not accrededation.
>>>>>>>>He has the ability to not be on restrictions. <<<<<<<<<<<<
This is not always the case. If a student is placed on restriction for a crime he did not committ, he is (at least in my time) left on restriction until he acknowledges his guilt. Is this still the case?
>>>>>>>>> HLA has not tolerance for this kind of thing on its campus. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
True enough with its students at least. Just out of curiosity how was the student who made the initial remark punished?
>>>>>>>>>>>You may not want to hear this, but if your child has not gotten themselves complete after RCI, it is entirely their fault.<<<<<<<<<
Recently a teacher (current) posted on here. She told us that students are not allowed to recieve incompletes. Can you comment on this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>I am not HLA's mouthpiece. I have not been asked to come onto this site by anyone. I do so because I want to. I think it is obvious that I work at HLA.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Does Len know youre on here?
>>>>>>>>>>>I will not identify any more of myself because I do not want you people figuring out who I am and harrassing me or my family. You have no problem with others keeping the anonymity. All you ask from others is a screen name, which I have given you. The only reason you would want to know my true identity is to threaten and harrass.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Probably not the case, whats more likely is we'd like to know how it is you are privy to all this information. I personally would be satisfied knowing if you were a counselor or not. As to calling you and harrassing you, would you like to comment on whats happened to Dysfunction?
>>>>>>>>>>>>Notice the typical response that occurs when someone very calmly and clearly states the truth. The posters on this board cannot stand reasonable responses. This is the same thing a lawyer does when they know that a witness is telling a truth that they don't like. If you can't attack the substance, attack the credibility and the character. Just cheap tricks. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Now this I find very interesting. Do you realize you have just described the behavior of almost every HLA stooge on this site for the past year? Look at Cybie's post, or Aftens, look at Lynn even or any of the other numerous trolls. Its all theyve done, dont cry when your own tactics are used against you.
>>>>>>>>>>>The way for a student to progress is for them to follow the rules, do their work in Realizations, and get involved with extracurricular activities. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Again not always the case. I can tell you from my own time there, for a period I tried my best to stay under the radar. Do what I was told, and play by the rules. It didnt work. HLA is almost Orwellian in its ideology. In 1984 after Smith has been captured it is not enough that he acknowledge his guilt, it is not even enough that he be punished and be forced to live with the fact the he betrayed his love. What matters to O'Brian is that Smith truly want to be forgiven by Big Brother, to truly embrace that Big Brother is always right, and to mean it.
Same thing at HLA, its not enough that a child simply follow the rules and go with the program, they have to believe they are sick and only HLA can cure them. Even if they arent.
>>>>>>>>>Again, I am not saying it has always been this way, especially in the days of the Bentz'. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
So then the question remains. Do we who were there at the early days of the school have a legitimate complaint?
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On 2006-01-25 00:01:00, RobertBruce wrote:
Again not always the case. I can tell you from my own time there, for a period I tried my best to stay under the radar. Do what I was told, and play by the rules. It didnt work. HLA is almost Orwellian in its ideology. In 1984 after Smith has been captured it is not enough that he acknowledge his guilt, it is not even enough that he be punished and be forced to live with the fact the he betrayed his love. What matters to O'Brian is that Smith truly want to be forgiven by Big Brother, to truly embrace that Big Brother is always right, and to mean it.
Same thing at HLA, its not enough that a child simply follow the rules and go with the program, they have to believe they are sick and only HLA can cure them. Even if they arent.
:nworthy: The most serious parody I have ever heard was this: In the beginning was nonsense, and the nonsense was with God, and the nonsense was God.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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Why does HLA still continue to insist that they do not have 'court -ordered children? And, please
don't play semantics..
Did they get rid of the 'Fall-out' book?
Did they stop having the children carry
boulders around on restrictions? THe front landscaping has been complete for ages...
Have they cleaned up the lower left field?
Is a frightened child's word still 'manipulation?
Oh, and by the way, Academia..Have you all figured out whether you have a Science Lab yet?
Has HLA gotten rid of every teacher, nurse and counselor that got too close to the children
and were honest with the parents..?
Any answers, respectfully of-course....Oh, and if anyone wants to know who "Truth' is...Private
message me...I have a strong feeling. 'Could be
wrong, but I doubt it...
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I just recently graduated from HLA, and a lot of the things the staff member says are very convenient to say the least for the school. Example:
>>>>>>>Other than that one incident there have been no other times in recent memory that drugs have been on campus. On the rare occasion, however, they do get onto campus. <<<<<<<
During the two years I was there, I can recall at least 6 people who succesfully had drugs or alcohol on campus (some of those students got it on multiple times).
There's also the comment that if you are on restrictions for something the student didn't do they get off..not true. At least twice my counselors told me that I was on and that there was nothing they could do because the higher ups put me on.
The whole time I was there whenever I was pissed of about something in the program countleass staff told me to just play the game. The only way to survive the program is to fake it until your out..so tell me how does this help people get over their problems?
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"Play the game" is the quote staff members told me to live by. HLA was a living hell for me and I was a trusted student there. They treat you like an animal no matter how long you've been there or what you've acheived. The school is lying to you about 90% of the things they've told you. Your child is no angel either or they wouldn't be there, and I'm sure some of the things they've said are a little exaggerated but unlike the school 90% of what they've told you is true. Also keep in mind that any time they communicate with you it has to go through someone else first: emails, phone calls, so a lot of what your kid is saying is downplayed because if they said what really happens the email wouldnt get sent or the phone would be taken away from them.
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On 2006-02-02 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just recently graduated from HLA, and a lot of the things the staff member says are very convenient to say the least for the school. Example:
>>>>>>>Other than that one incident there have been no other times in recent memory that drugs have been on campus. On the rare occasion, however, they do get onto campus. <<<<<<<
During the two years I was there, I can recall at least 6 people who succesfully had drugs or alcohol on campus (some of those students got it on multiple times).
There's also the comment that if you are on restrictions for something the student didn't do they get off..not true. At least twice my counselors told me that I was on and that there was nothing they could do because the higher ups put me on.
The whole time I was there whenever I was pissed of about something in the program countleass staff told me to just play the game. The only way to survive the program is to fake it until your out..so tell me how does this help people get over their problems?"
I' not going to disagree with you. "Fake it 'til you make it" is utter bullshit. Obviously the staff know that it is just a warehouse and legitimate concerns will not be addressed.
So, are you saying that the staff member, "HLA Truth" has been telling some fancilful tales (i.e. lying) about what actually happens on campus?
Can I ask you, were you ever subjected to any sort of psychological evaluation while at HLA?
What do you know about sexual relations between staff and patients?
What kind of drugs were available on campus and from whom/how were they obtained?
Thanks.
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On 2006-01-26 22:25:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
Why does HLA still continue to insist that they do not have 'court -ordered children? And, please
don't play semantics..
Did they get rid of the 'Fall-out' book?
Did they stop having the children carry
boulders around on restrictions? THe front landscaping has been complete for ages...
Have they cleaned up the lower left field?
Is a frightened child's word still 'manipulation?
Oh, and by the way, Academia..Have you all figured out whether you have a Science Lab yet?
Has HLA gotten rid of every teacher, nurse and counselor that got too close to the children
and were honest with the parents..?
Any answers, respectfully of-course....Oh, and if anyone wants to know who "Truth' is...Private
message me...I have a strong feeling. 'Could be
wrong, but I doubt it...
"
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Truth,
Have 'you' figured out whether there is a
Science Lab, or are you still checking into it?
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Bill will get back to ya when the construction is complete.
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Bill? Kathleen? Or is it Jeff? Will the real
'Truth' be known?? Or does one cower behind it?
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On 2006-01-26 22:25:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
Why does HLA still continue to insist that they do not have 'court -ordered children? And, please
don't play semantics..
Did they get rid of the 'Fall-out' book?
Did they stop having the children carry
boulders around on restrictions? THe front landscaping has been complete for ages...
Have they cleaned up the lower left field?
Is a frightened child's word still 'manipulation?
Oh, and by the way, Academia..Have you all figured out whether you have a Science Lab yet?
Has HLA gotten rid of every teacher, nurse and counselor that got too close to the children
and were honest with the parents..?
Any answers, respectfully of-course....Oh, and if anyone wants to know who "Truth' is...Private
message me...I have a strong feeling. 'Could be
wrong, but I doubt it...
"
"
Truth? Care to start with these?
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HLA truth speaks in the same way that the other counselers/employees speak. When you were answering the concerned parent's questions, you left out a lot of stuff and sorta bent the truth. First of all, people were still being punished for cutting at HLA when I was pulled (at the end of August). Drugs aren't only necessarily snuck onto campus, there are so many kids at that school that are loaded up on different psychiatric medicines that they just cheek them and share them with eachother, hord them and abuse them, and so on. The statement about safety in dorms being one thing in the boys dorm that happened recently probably isnt even close to all of it. There were numerous fights in the boys dorms, as well as the girls dorm. A student in the boys dorm got urine and pubic hair poured over his head when he was in the shower by another student. I had my shampoo bottle pissed in. Students piss on eachothers beds to get back at eachother. Students can easily break into others' closets and steal stuff, and this happens frequently. About the statement about restrictions and not being on that long... I was on restrictions almost every day for the first 3 or 4 months, except for maybe 5 days total. I was put on restrictions for stupid things, like putting hair gel on my eye lashes when I first got there, hello it was like a self esteem and image issue, a girl feeling like they need make up of some kind. Other times people would tell on me in fall out for things that I didn't even do and I'd still be punished.
When my parents and I had a meeting w/ some counselers at HLA, they claimed that they're glad that I told them my complaints, even tho they never listened to me before, and acted like they were interested and really had no idea what was going on, and were going to take some action. They said that of the things they knew about like especially messed up stuff that happened on restrictions,staff that had been invovled (ones that I had brought up to my parents and at the meeting) were claimed to be fired. They lied because every staff member involved with the things I said was still working there.
For the concerned parent, be careful because the staff at HLA are very good at manipulating, and leaving out the truth. Don't believe everything they tell you. Listen to your child.
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That sounds about right....
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So how about it truth?
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She won't answer Brucey bee, she's too busy fingering herself.[ This Message was edited by: Short Bus on 2006-02-04 19:25 ][ This Message was edited by: Short Bus on 2006-02-04 19:29 ]
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You are really one ill person...
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On 2006-02-04 22:08:00, juniper2 wrote:
"You are really one ill person..."
Fuck you, dumb bitch.
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Im not sure that Juniper is a She...I got the impression it was a male, for some reason. But I might be wrong.
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On 2006-02-05 14:32:00, SHH wrote:
"Im not sure that Juniper is a She...I got the impression it was a male, for some reason. But I might be wrong."
Must be a fruit cake feminine type freak dude... :scared:
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On 2006-02-05 14:32:00, SHH wrote:
" But I might be wrong."
Without question the smartest thing you have ever said on here Bullfrog.
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LMAO, good one Brucey boy! :tup:
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Yo, Bruce, Where did you pick up the "Bullfrog" nametag??
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Robert picked that name for me because someone either Robert or Dysfunction seemed to remember that I was ugly and resembled a bullfrog. They couldnt be more wrong but whatever. I dont care what they call me, it speaks volumes of what Robert's maturity level is.
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oh, thats a corny nickname anyway, dont sweat it SHH, KEEP BEING SEXY, BABY DOLL!
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Um, no thank you. ::noway::
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Bullfrog Bullfrog Bullfrog...when will you work up the courage to either answer the questions or acknowledge you cant?
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On 2006-02-05 19:16:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Bullfrog Bullfrog Bullfrog...when will you work up the courage to either answer the questions or acknowledge you cant?"
Bobby, you and I know both, that will never happen, bro...She's a shady bitch..
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Thats MZ BITCH to you, if you dont mind.
And Robert, when are you going to come to terms with the fact that I neither A, am afraid to answer any questions, nor B, cant answer questions. I already told you, I dont want to answer them. Its tedious and you will trash my answers anyway, so why bother? Theres no point in it.
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On 2006-02-05 19:33:00, SHH wrote:
"Thats MZ BITCH to you, if you dont mind.
And Robert, when are you going to come to terms with the fact that I neither A, am afraid to answer any questions, nor B, cant answer questions. I already told you, I dont want to answer them. Its tedious and you will trash my answers anyway, so why bother? Theres no point in it. "
I AGREE, HE'S A COMBATIVE LIL FAGGOT...
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On 2006-02-05 19:33:00, SHH wrote:
Its tedious and you will trash my answers anyway, so why bother? Theres no point in it. "
On 2006-02-05 19:33:00, SHH translated:
You make me think and that makes my head hurt! You meannie! and you will only refute my lame assed gossip and circular reasoning w/ logic anyway.
Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.
Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)
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Yep thats it exactly Ginger :roll:
What I meant is exactly what I typed, not what YOU typed. I stand by my statement that there is no point in answering over 50 questions some of which I have already answered, just so he can ridicule my answers. I could answer them if I wanted to, but I dont want to. End of story. Robert needs to move on and get over the issue already.
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Truly, I do not understand how your vocabulary
is so limited and your thoughts are filled with
venom and emit filth. Your character is
questionable. Hey, however, I don't have to look in the mirror every morning and be you..
Are you proud of the low life you represent?
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Was that directed towards me? Venom and Filth? I hardly ever curse on here and occasionally use expressions like asshole but nothing much worse than that. I am going to assume you directed that at someone else I guess.
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On 2006-02-05 14:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-02-04 22:08:00, juniper2 wrote:
"You are really one ill person..."
Fuck you, dumb bitch."
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On 2006-02-06 09:05:00, juniper2 wrote:
"Truly, I do not understand how your vocabulary
is so limited and your thoughts are filled with
venom and emit filth. Your character is
questionable. Hey, however, I don't have to look in the mirror every morning and be you..
Are you proud of the low life you represent?"
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Well then yes you were directing that at someone else. I dont know who that anonymous person is, but I bet Ginger can find out.
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Bullfrog just admitt the truth. No one here is buying your bullshit except you, and thats only because youre the only one dumb enough to fall for it.
You cant answer the questions. Its just that simple. You made a series of comments that made no sense and had no relation whatsoever to the truth and now youre scared to death that your own misplaced vanity will be shattered.
With good reason.
So either acknowledge that you cannot answer them, or answer them. Either way I will not let up about it until you do one or the other.
Also still waiting for you to acknowledge that you in fact lied when you claimed you were familiar with all the employees backrounds, as I have proven you were not.
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Robert you never answered my question as to which employee you were referring to that was there when I was that used to be a prison guard. If you cant give me a name I will have to assume you are making it up. So who's lying now? Either give me a name or shut up about it. Now, as far as the questions, you can gripe about it til the cows come home, I dont want to answer your questions and I wont answer your questions just because you demand it. I said there is no point in it and I won't give you that satisfaction of tearing apart and ridiculing my answers to give you some sort of bizarre fun. Give it up already and move on.
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I dont want to answer your questions and I wont answer your questions just because you demand it
Quid pro quo. You won't answer, yet you demands answers? I know you know nothing about the program, but with logic like this, you'd fit right in...
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I dont care whether or not he answers my question about which employee was the prison guard. My point was, Steve, that he demands answers from me, yet won't answer mine. That was what I was telling him. He can't demand from me, yet avoid my question. All's fair in......love and message boards? LOL
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Do you have anything of relevance to offer the message board Suzanne? Your contribution lately has been to defy, defend against, and argue with someone half your age.
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Well I was trying to contribute but Robert doesnt appreciate any of my contributions. But that part is ok. The other issue is that he needs to come to terms with the fact that he can't bully me into answering questions I have no desire or time to answer just so he can get his jollies. I asked him many times to drop it but he is obsessed with the issue. You are right it is stupid to argue with him over and over again. It solves nothing. I will just ignore his repeated demands and let him talk to himself about it and leave me out of the equation.
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No you wont, youre way to full of yourself.
You claimed to be familiar with every employees backround. Yet you do not know which headmaster was a former prison guard. This would suggest you lied.
Thanks for playing Bullfrog.
Now as to the other questions, I proved with my questions that you had no knowledge of anything that went on at HLA and LIED about your experiences because you are in fact full of shit.
Accept that fact.
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Since none of the headmasters that were there when I was, were prison guards previously, tell me which one you think was one. Could it be that you don't know? Could it be that you heard a rumor to that effect but its not accurate? Could it be that it was a headmaster that was there after I left? Please answer the question. Which headmaster was the prison guard? [ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2006-02-08 04:05 ][ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2006-02-08 04:06 ]
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No it was some one there around the same time as you.
No I am not wrong as I was told by this person personally.
I dont understand, you claimed to be familiar with EVERY employees backround yet you dont know the backround of the headmaster? Arguably one of the more prominent employees?
I'll make a deal with you though Bullfrog. Since I asked you my questions months ago if youll just attempt to answer them, I'll answer yours.
Deal?[ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2006-02-08 07:24 ]
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On 2006-01-22 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have a child at HLA and I'm worried about the posts that I have been reading. Does anyone have any current information on the conditions there?"
What ever happened to the worried parent that
started this????Did they get their child????
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There have been three headmasters at HLA-
Rudy Bentz, Greg Lindsey, and Charles Cates. None of these guys have been prison guards.
Since the parent never identified themselves, I don't know if they ever even came onto campus. HLA has parents visit all the time.
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I heard Greg worked in a prison. Didn't he work with sex offenders in a prison rehab program?
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On 2006-02-08 13:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I heard Greg worked in a prison. Didn't he work with sex offenders in a prison rehab program?"
It is very possible that he did counseling in a prison. I almost wrote that on my last post, but I was not sure that I was remembering correctly.
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There is a big difference between being a prison guard and being a counselor or psychiatrist in a prison. Greg was from Florida and he worked in various counseling positions at different locations in Florida but he was never a prison "guard".
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There is a big difference between being a prison guard and being a counselor or psychiatrist in a prison. Greg was from Florida and he worked in various counseling positions at different locations in Florida but he was never a prison "guard".
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You are sexy bullfrog.
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HLA Truth, change ur stupid avatar
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Bullfrog youre dodging the issue. You claimed to be familiar with all employees backrounds, apparently that was a lie.
I'll add it to your ever growing list.
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On 2006-01-26 22:25:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
Why does HLA still continue to insist that they do not have 'court -ordered children? And, please
don't play semantics..
Did they get rid of the 'Fall-out' book?
Did they stop having the children carry
boulders around on restrictions? THe front landscaping has been complete for ages...
Have they cleaned up the lower left field?
Is a frightened child's word still 'manipulation?
Oh, and by the way, Academia..Have you all figured out whether you have a Science Lab yet?
Has HLA gotten rid of every teacher, nurse and counselor that got too close to the children
and were honest with the parents..?
Any answers, respectfully of-course....Oh, and if anyone wants to know who "Truth' is...Private
message me...I have a strong feeling. 'Could be
wrong, but I doubt it...
"
HLA TRUTH ..Now that you are back, could you please address these questions??? Why will no one at HLA answer a direct question about the court-Ordered children on campus. It is factual, we all know it, the children know it, most of the parents know it, what it the problem??
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P.S. The court knows it (documents)...Why not
just acknowledge it?
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On 2006-02-08 14:22:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
P.S. The court knows it (documents)...Why not
just acknowledge it?"
They can't because adolescent court documents are sealed so the only way to find that out is to have a parent show you the documents.It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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HLA can acknowledge they have court ordered
children, without the documents...
HLA TRUTH???Where are you????Won't you step up to the plate and answer these questions??[ This Message was edited by: juniper2 on 2006-02-08 14:44 ]
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Do you fear they will sue you, too??
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Robert I am not dodging anything. I stated that no headmaster that I knew while affiliated at the school was a prison guard. Greg being a counselor at a prison is not a prison "guard" position. Tell me which headmaster you were referring to in your comment to me or I will assume it is YOU that is dodging the issue.
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Wrong again Bullfrog.
Firstly I offered you a deal, I will answer any question you ask me provided you work up the courage to answer mine.
Secondly you made the statement claiming you were familiar with every employees backround prior to coming to work at HLA. Ive proven this isnt true.
Thirdly and most important, you didnt even know Greg Lindsay worked as a counselor in a prison let alone any job he or any of the others may have had.
Just admitt the truth and then go answer those questions.
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How do you know what I know about Greg? Remember, I was their next door neighbor. I babysat their kids. Their daughter babysat my kids. I went out to eat with them. Had them over to my house for dinner. They had us over to their house for dinner. They were at my christmas party the year I threw it at my house. I spent corporate retreat time with them. And they had those once a year so it was several years we attended those together. How do you know what I know about Greg before they came to Georgia? Please spare me your oh so holier than thou condescending attitude. You have no clue what I know about people I worked with and were neighbors with. YOu said a headmaster was a prison guard. You made that up, or, at the very least, twisted the truth. Greg was not a prison guard. Neither was Rudy. And I don't know Charles so he doesn't count. So tell me Robert, are you going to answer my question or not? I am assuming not, therefore, the prison guard story was BS.
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Oh but it wasnt. A former head master at the school was a prison guard. Im sorry youre to stupid to understand that no one liked you at HLA, thus no one told you about their personal lives.
Oh and just for the record you are once again full of shit. Your definition of living next door is highly skewed. Greg lived up by the dorms. You lived at the bottom of the hill close to the exit, far away from the campus (hence the reason why you dont know anything about it). Thanks for proving that fact yet again.
I'll tell you what though, since youre far to vain to ever admit when you are wrong or caught in a lie I'll give you a chance to prove yourself right.
Give me the rundown on both Rudy and Gregs careers and education prior to coming to work at HLA.
And just for good measure give me 4 different groups counselors and their backrounds and education as well.
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Robert, Robert, Robert....don't you realize I was living on campus far longer than you? Yes, you are partly correct. Greg and his family lived in the older home that is now the site of the boys dorm, down past the dining hall on the left, and across from what used to be my in-law's house. However, when they decided to put the boy's dorm in, that house was torn down, and Greg and his family moved into one of the 6 townhouses that were built next to my house. Obviously you left before the townhouses were built. They happened to live in the one closest to my house. The townhouses are located on the site of the old workshop, if you remember where that was. And what makes you think nobody liked me? You weren't employed there you would have no idea who liked me or who didn't like me. You still didnt answer my question though. Between 1994 and 2000, there were no headmasters that used to be a prison guard. So sorry you continue to blabber on about it.
OH and by the way, my house was at the bottom of the hill, but nowhere near the exit. I used to walk up the hill frequently to campus and it wasnt that far. Maybe 500 yards. It is 1 mile from the entrance to the top of the hill. Obviously, I was a little closer to campus than you remember.[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2006-02-08 18:12 ]
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Given the fact that you still cant offer up any of the backrounds I asked you about I think the point has been made.
You never knew anything of substance about anything or anyone associated with HLA.
Any claims to the contrary are in fact a lie.
There is nothing you can say to refute that its just been proven far to many times.
I wonder now what is your motivation for sticking around? Maybe youre just a glutton for punishment.
I guess it makes sense, after all you obviously get off on child abuse stories, maybe you were abused as a child and grew to like it, hence why you make it so easier for us here.
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(http://http://planetsmilies.net/7202.gif)
Roberts ONLY way to get some sexual activity! :lol:
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I find the best way is to simply have sex.
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On 2006-02-08 19:17:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
I wonder now what is your motivation for sticking around? Maybe youre just a glutton for punishment.
I guess it makes sense, after all you obviously get off on child abuse stories, maybe you were abused as a child and grew to like it, hence why you make it so easier for us here. "
She attended Catholic school. Was spanked with hairbrushes or whatever was convenient and still believes that to be a desirable practice. She is compelled to defend her son's father and the program he works for. She's a tough-love groupie.
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I did attend Catholic schools for part of my schooling, but was never spanked with a hairbrush. My best friend was however. and no idont like child abuse stories.
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SHH wrote:
In the old days, we were paddled with ping pong paddles, smacked on our hands with rulers, spanked with the infamous "switch", and whacked with hairbrushes when we misbehaved. Somehow, we all turned out fine. Maybe the old "spare the rod, spoil the child" isnt so off course after all. From what I have seen, the kids these days are spoiled brats. I am not condoning abuse, but maybe the threat of time-out isn't enough. Maybe real consequences are what is needed.
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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#98187 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6735&forum=9&start=0#98187)
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I believe you misunderstood that post. I didnt mean "We" as in I. I am an only child. I meant "We" as in our generation in general. I am not condoning being beaten with anything. I was whacked on the hand with rulers in school. And at one school the principal had a ping pong paddle he used for unruly kids. This was a public school by the way. But I do think that kids today have a skewed view sometimes of what is abuse and what isnt at times. Being made to do work around the house is not abuse. Being made to listen to your parents is not abuse. I cant tell you how many times I see kids in a store who have total control over their parents and do whatever the hell they want running around the store, whining, crying, screaming, hitting their parents, being brats in general. Anybody watch the Nanny show lately? If the parents take control of the situation when they are toddlers, and make sure the kids know their paremeters and the rules of the house at an early age, they do much better in the outside world. I dont spank my son, but I am firm with him. I have been firm with him since he was little. And he always does what I ask, says please and thank you, is polite to everyone, stays in his seat at restaurants, does well in school, and very helpful around the house. He also is a normal child in that he complains and whines sometimes, but not nearly as bad as kids who knew no boundaries as a toddler. That is what I think needs to happen. Parents think they are doing a favor to kids by giving into their every whim because they want to make their kids happy. But they are doing the kids an injustice by doing that. The world is not their oyster. They have to live in it with everybody else and respect other people.
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Devin?
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On 2006-02-08 14:20:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
On 2006-01-26 22:25:00, juniper2 wrote:
"
Why does HLA still continue to insist that they do not have 'court -ordered children? And, please
don't play semantics..
Did they get rid of the 'Fall-out' book?
Did they stop having the children carry
boulders around on restrictions? THe front landscaping has been complete for ages...
Have they cleaned up the lower left field?
Is a frightened child's word still 'manipulation?
Oh, and by the way, Academia..Have you all figured out whether you have a Science Lab yet?
Has HLA gotten rid of every teacher, nurse and counselor that got too close to the children
and were honest with the parents..?
Any answers, respectfully of-course....Oh, and if anyone wants to know who "Truth' is...Private
message me...I have a strong feeling. 'Could be
wrong, but I doubt it...
"
HLA TRUTH ..Now that you are back, could you please address these questions??? Why will no one at HLA answer a direct question about the court-Ordered children on campus. It is factual, we all know it, the children know it, most of the parents know it, what it the problem??"
STILL waiting patiently for some answers... ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin::
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On 2006-02-09 05:59:00, SHH wrote:
"I believe you misunderstood that post. I didnt mean "We" as in I. I am an only child. I meant "We" as in our generation in general. I am not condoning being beaten with anything. I was whacked on the hand with rulers in school. And at one school the principal had a ping pong paddle he used for unruly kids. This was a public school by the way. But I do think that kids today have a skewed view sometimes of what is abuse and what isnt at times. Being made to do work around the house is not abuse. Being made to listen to your parents is not abuse. I cant tell you how many times I see kids in a store who have total control over their parents and do whatever the hell they want running around the store, whining, crying, screaming, hitting their parents, being brats in general. Anybody watch the Nanny show lately? If the parents take control of the situation when they are toddlers, and make sure the kids know their paremeters and the rules of the house at an early age, they do much better in the outside world. I dont spank my son, but I am firm with him. I have been firm with him since he was little. And he always does what I ask, says please and thank you, is polite to everyone, stays in his seat at restaurants, does well in school, and very helpful around the house. He also is a normal child in that he complains and whines sometimes, but not nearly as bad as kids who knew no boundaries as a toddler. That is what I think needs to happen. Parents think they are doing a favor to kids by giving into their every whim because they want to make their kids happy. But they are doing the kids an injustice by doing that. The world is not their oyster. They have to live in it with everybody else and respect other people. "
Lady you are so full of shit. "We as in our generation"? Give us a fucking break. Can I have your home address cause Id like to send you a picture of this bridge I own that Id be happy to sell you. Seriously you try to cover your own bullshit and tracks with all the skill of a three year old. The one thing I cant decide is whether or not youre just that naive or just that stupid.
Oh and again the fact that you married two people with strong ties to the BM industry suggest you do have a thing for child abuse stories, plus the fact that youre still here always eager to hear more stories lend creedence to this.
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Whats up Brucey..
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Not much Shorty where have you been?
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[ This Message was edited by: Short Bus on 2006-02-09 19:02 ]
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That sucks brother Im sorry to hear that. You shouldnt have strayed you know?
Hindsight is always 20 20 though I guess.
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Not a whole lot man, just noticing how annoying this SHH bitch is..
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I edited that post just in case, although we dont get along too well ( me and you ) I had to ghet that off my chest and figured youre mature enough to understand..Hindsight is always 20/20, ibve been thinkin that all day man.. Please dont bring that post I edited on the forum, k?
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You've been "thinking about that" all day?
Somebody, please, re-post what this guy is all concerned about, what did he say, did he threaten somebody or something interesting and self-revealing like that???
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It was about a fight I got in with my girlfriend of two years, I was talking to Robert, mind your fucking business, I would hope you have enough of your own problems in life not to worry about mine..Fuck you.
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Are you 'short' on vocab?? too??
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On 2006-02-09 19:06:00, Short Bus wrote:
"I edited that post just in case, although we dont get along too well ( me and you ) I had to ghet that off my chest and figured youre mature enough to understand..Hindsight is always 20/20, ibve been thinkin that all day man.. Please dont bring that post I edited on the forum, k?"
Dont sweat it. I wont mention it again.
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Short Bus
A regular around here
Joined: 2006-01-04
Posts: 166
From: New Jersey
Posted: 2006-02-09 18:37:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art likes "tea bagging" niggers ball sacks..
============================================ wow,, this asshole ia friend of yours?? was probably a fantasy about some fecal fantasy,, judging by his other posts...you be the judge
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On 2006-02-09 19:04:00, Short Bus wrote:
"Not a whole lot man, just noticing how annoying this SHH bitch is.."
AMEN!
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Sorry that it has taken so long to get back with you on these points...
Drugs are rampant on campus- Yes, we had some kids recently who were caught with drugs on campus. Three kids actually shared one joint that one of them had snuck onto campus. All students involved went to Ridge Creek. Other than that one incident there have been no other times in recent memory that drugs have been on campus. On the rare occasion, however, they do get onto campus.
Students are punished for cutting or restricting food- Actually the opposite is true. We have a policy against this. I will note that this has not always been the policy. Years ago students were put on restrictions for such things. I believe the program is much more clinically sound now than it was in the early days. This does not mean that kids who do these things are exempt from restrictions if they do other things that would get every other kid on restriction. If their state of mind is too severe to handle typical student life here, we will reccomend that they move on to more of a hospital setting.
Mulitiple days on restriction- THis is an exageration of the facts. Yes, kids can build up multiple days on restrictions and in the past kids were on restriction for an infinite ammount of time. Now, if a kid is on restrictions for more than 15 days in one month, we hold a special staffing to determine how to get that child back on track. This will often result in sending the child to RCI. When they come back, the slate is wiped clean. If they don't go to RCI, we look at creative ways in which we can get the kids off of restrictions and able to join the majority of the student body who are not on restrictions.
RCI as a last resort- In my mind RCI is used as a last resort, other than dismissing a child. There are certain behaviors, however, that will almost automatically send a child to RCI such as intimidation of another student, physical violence, bring drugs onto campus, abusing medications. Pretty much anything that severly inhibits the groth of another student. In terms of RCI not being clinical enough, I don't think you will find another wilderness program in the country that is more clinical. All of their therapists are state licensed and the program is licensed by the state as well. They are very clinical.
Your child is always on restriction- This is where I would challenge you a bit. If your child is always on restriction and unable to participate in the fun activities of the school, I would put that problem back onto your child. He has the ability to not be on restrictions. I want you to realize that 80% of the school is NOT on restrictions. Most of them are going about their business, following the rules, and being able to participate in activities. Let your child work through the beginning part of this program and realize that he has to be the one to make the changes.
Boy to the hospital- Yes. This did occur. Several boys beat up another boy for making racial remarks to one of them. All of the boys involved are now at RCI. The boy that got beat up went to the hospital to get stitches in his lip. HLA is vigilent at stopping any violence or intimidation on campus. Once it is found out it is dealt with swiftly. HLA has not tolerance for this kind of thing on its campus.
Academically behind after RCI- Kids are given six weeks to make up their work following RCI. Also, student are allowed to work on their academics while they are at RCI. You may not want to hear this, but if your child has not gotten themselves complete after RCI, it is entirely their fault. The kids are given plenty of time to catch up and the vast majority of kids get caught up very quickly. If your child is truly working and still having trouble getting caught up, I encourage you to call the academic department and discuss what the problem is. They will work with you. Just make sure your child is TRULY working and not just trying to make excuses for himself. Again, the VAST majority of kids make their academic work up very quickly.
I hope this has been of some help to you. I am sure much of what I have written will now get trashed. Just remember, there is a big difference in how things are now as opposed to when most of the posters on this site were here. Ultimately, you have to decide what is best for your child and only you can decide that. Good luck and maybe I will see you when you come up.
Wonder whatever happened to this guy?
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He's been told to "expect a subpoena" from HLA's law team. I'm sure you'll see him in court shortly.
Funny thing, though. If HLA asks him to testify, they're going to get burned by their own witness. Anyway, it'll be fun to watch.
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Interesting. I thought he was all gung ho pro HLA. Hmmm. Seems like more and more people are waking up.
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he knows all about the inappropriate placements, etc and has said many times that the concept of hla was good but that len killed it with unethical/criminal management, no licensed counselors or teachers, etc.
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Well, I'm glad he's going to be shedding some light on the situation, but he's dead wrong on the "concept" of HLA.
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I graduated the program and all it did was waste 22 months of my life and get me further behind than ahead. I learned nothing. Ive been on restrictions for about 1/4 to 1/3 of my time there. Some staff are ok but if they want to keep there job they must bassically fill a quota of write ups. It makes no sense to send a kid there. Its just a huge waste of money.
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Maybe your situation was different or you just had sadistic counselor, but I can assure you that there is no "quota" for write ups. Most counselors would prefere not to put people on restrictions because it means more paper work for them. I will grant you, however, that some counselors lacked the common sense to know what was worth writing up and what should be let go or dealt with without a write up. Because they had no common sense they would write up everything.
Just clarifying what the reality probably was.
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You're trying to clarify reality through the eyes of an adult. The "reality" is much different in the eyes of a teenager who is going through normal ups and downs plus some - have that compounded by counselors who, for the most part, were incompetent and unskilled jumping down a teenager's throat everyday. Of course the situation is much worse in their view because they are living it.
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There may not be a specific 'quota', but let's say it was noticed that a counselor consistently had few write ups. Would that be questioned?
My sons PGCs weren't necessarily sadistic, that I'm aware of, and I know he was on restrictions for most of the first 4 months he was there, and very frequently throughout. Often for minor things or because someone accused him of violating a rule.
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No the number of write-ups was not questioned. There were three major rules as you know and if a administrator, counselor or teacher did not write a student for breaking one of the three major rules then that may be an issue. In fact some of the people who did not write up the kids were well respected for having an orderly bunch and those who consistently needed to write people were often seen as the ones who were not capable at their positions. If anything there was almost the opposite correlation of what was suggested.
There are alternatives to write-ups as well and the alternatives were commonly used, more by some than others.
There may not be a specific 'quota', but let's say it was noticed that a counselor consistently had few write ups. Would that be questioned?
My sons PGCs weren't necessarily sadistic, that I'm aware of, and I know he was on restrictions for most of the first 4 months he was there, and very frequently throughout. Often for minor things or because someone accused him of violating a rule.