Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: RobertBruce on November 17, 2005, 05:57:00 PM
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Recently a number of questions have been raised concerning whether or not HLA is liscened as they should be.
The answer is no.
HLA has lied to the state since its inception claiming that they are a traditional boarding school where the emphasis is on education.
However the website and what the told the parents and education consultants was a very different story.
In that respect it claimed it was a theraputic boarding school with an emphasis on therapy.
Its admission policy seemed to fall more in line with that it was a theraputic boarding school. I mean how many traditional ones require an evaluation and recomendation by a psychologist?
So now the question arises, is it a theraputic boarding school or not?
If it is then why isnt HLA licensed as one?
If it isnt then why is there so much emphasis placed on therapy?
Perhaps it is a theraputic boarding school as their website claimed, but does not mention that to the state for various reasons.
Namely a few simple policies they would be forced to follow.
1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances.
You know those little things HLA has a current policy which they may not want to change around.
I know Deborah had a full listing off all the regs that would apply. Perhaps she could be generous enough to post those again for us.
Id be interested to see if any of Buchi's puppets can address these questions or if theyd rather pretend they dont exist.
Maybe we will get lucky and Buch himself will drop by and put some of these questions to rest.
We can hope cant we?
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A few on the topic:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#51841 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=10#51841)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#51700 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=0#51700)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... art=#97940 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9303&forum=41&start=#97940)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#88723 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8725&forum=40&start=0#88723)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84989 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8487&forum=9&start=0#84989)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#83063 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8338&forum=9&start=0#83063)
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Interesting points, all ones Im sure Buch would rather we didnt bring up.
So how about Buch? We already know you have your stooges monitor these sites and report back to you.
So go ahead step up to the plate and be a man about it.
Tell us whether or not HLA is a theraputic boarding school or not.
Answer the quesitons put to you.
If your "school" really is such a good place you should have nothing to hide.
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It should be common sense that IRS is not going to allow tax deductions for expenses related to education at a private boarding school. IRS also does not allow deductions for programs that provide discipline and structure. This Ruling states: ?a parent who sends a defiant son to military school is not doing this to overcome a mental or physical disorder, but to provide discipline and ordinary education.? Therefore, expenses are not deductible.
http://tinyurl.com/uotqb (http://tinyurl.com/uotqb)
This Ruling indicates that the kid must have a ?disease/disorder? that requires ?medical treatment?.
http://tinyurl.com/y7jgrz (http://tinyurl.com/y7jgrz)
While BM for the 'treatment' of drug addiction is considered a medical expense, the Ruling clarifies: ??.a person attending the program to resolve bad personal attitudes in a structured environment does not receive medical care, and none of the expenses are deductible. This form of ?behavior modification? does not treat a medical condition.?
Further clarification:
Educational expenses ? Medical care deduction. While ordinary education is not medical care, the cost of attending a special school for a mentally or physically handicapped individual is a medical
expense where alleviation of the handicap is a principal reason for attending the school. Reg. Section 1.213-1(e)(1)(v)(a).
A school will be considered "special" when its PRIMARY FUNCTION IS TO FURNISH MEDICAL CARE, and EDUCATION IS ONLY INCIDENTAL to that function. A portion of tuition payments made for attendance at a regular school that provides special programs may also qualify for the medical care deduction. A taxpayer must specifically ascertain and document the cost attributable to medical care (i.e., the portion of tuition directly attributable to the special program that qualifies as medical care).
Fischer v. Commissioner, 50 T.C. 164 (1968), acq. 1969-2 C.B. 24.
Why would HLA refer to Revenue Ruling. 58-280
http://www.taxlinks.com/rulings/1958/revrul58-280.htm (http://www.taxlinks.com/rulings/1958/revrul58-280.htm)
when informing parents that tuition may be deductible
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#51841 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=10#51841)
58-280 states, in part:
However, it is now concluded that where an individual is in an institution because his condition is such that the availability of medical care in such institution is a principal reason for his presence there and meals and lodging are furnished as a necessary incident to such care, the entire cost of medical care and meals and lodging at the institution, which are furnished while the individual requires continual medical care, constitute an expense for medical care. In other words, medical care includes the entire cost of institutional care for a person who is mentally ill and unsafe when left alone.
Same would apply to Insurance coverage. They are not going to pay for ?tuition? to a private boarding school unless the facility proves they are ?treating? a legitimate diagnosed ?medical problem?.
So, it seems perfectly rational to conclude that if HLA?s primary purpose is not education and parents are taking tax deductions and filing insurance claims, that HLA is not a traditional private boarding school? That they would indeed meet the definition of some kind of Special School or Therapeutic Institution. We all know that the participants are primarily there to have their behavior modified. To ?treat? ODD and a host of other psych diagnoses. Academics are secondary, incidental.
Has anyone here ever heard of a child applying to HLA strictly for the stellar education they would receive there? Would any child attend HLA strictly for education without being a participant in the therapeutic program? Do kids remain at HLA to finish their high school education when the 18-22 month program is complete? Do Ed Cons refer clients to HLA who are looking for a traditional boarding school?
Given that we all know that HLA is a therapeutic facility that happens to board and educate kids, they should be required to possess a license.
Again, Ga Regs state:
(b) "Child caring institution" means any institution, society, agency, or facility, whether incorporated or not, which either primarily or incidentally provides full-time care for children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes, subject to such exceptions as may be provided in rules and regulations of the Board of Human Resources. For purposes of these rules, a child caring institution means any institution, society, agency, or facility that provides such care to six or more children.*
Exemption:
Any bona fide boarding school whose PRIMARY purpose of admission is EDUCATION?? and shall not provide SERVICE PLANNING and CASEWORK SERVICES as described in the licensing rules.
Traditional Boarding School? Not hardly. The question remains- Why does Ga ORS, and many other state licensing departments, allow this at HLA other programs?
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Posted by a physician in another thread...
"My experience with Hidden Lake Academy was also distressing.
In my opinion, and the opinions of the six other physicians in my practice who followed my HLA misadventure with me, HLA is a predator whose prey is the horrified parents of disturbed teens. It is an institution of opportunity, bringing home its bottom line at the expense of the desperate, frazzled families it exploits.
By the time most parents are introduced to HLA, they've already been through a costly and demoralizing gauntlet of police stations, court appearances, counselor visits, psychiatric evaluations...even hospital visits.
To say they are desperate is an understatement. They are trying to keep their families from self-destructing. In most cases, the only option is turning the child out onto the streets: most insurance policies won't cover mental health care, and even if a family is lucky enough to have good coverage, it is limited to short, individual events. Deeply needed inpatient care is rarely an option for most of these families.
So even considering a modality such as a therapeutic boarding school is a true extravagance. Actually sending the student may mean mortgaging a home, selling it, or even bancruptcy.
Enter Hidden Lake and its ilk.
I was asked by the parents of a young teen to evaluate HLA by its Web site. What stood out to me even more than the philosophy that medical therapy was discouraged were the many typographical errors and careless mistakes on nearly every page of the site. While my own writing is not perfect, I am not registered as a boarding school, responsible for the education of children, presumably overflowing with teachers more than capable of proofreading the very materials provided to the public for the purpose of attracting business.
When I brought my concerns to the attention to the school, they were received with, well, less than warm gratitude. My comments to HLA were meant to be constructive. I was gracious and self-effacing in my original letter because the last thing I wanted was to offend the school. Clearly such niceties were a waste of effort.
Given that the parents are expected to pay upwards of seven thousand dollars per month for the privilege of sending their child to a therapeutic boarding school, I actually expected a minimum of civility. None was evident.
My credentials were questioned?this from an institution whose methods are questionable, at best, from a medical (and psychiatric, I might add) point of view.
Fast forward a few months...and imagine how surprised I was to come across the story of the parent in the previous posts. Am I shocked HLA will not send the child's transcripts? Nope. They demonstrated their pettiness, immaturity, and curious vindictiveness to me, a peer and potential referral base a long time ago. Was I surprised that personal belongings, including necessary daily medications, were sent COD?by ground? Actually, yes.
Not only did that shock me, it caused me to pick up the phone and discuss this gross mismanagement of a patient's medications with a malpractice attorney, who recommends HLA check to be sure their insurance premiums are paid.
To the parent: my suggestion is that you alert your attorney to your experience. Gather all proof of your allegations, including the boxes the personal effects were sent in, the COD receipt(s), the condition of any damaged items, a list of missing items, if any, and proof of payments made to HLA. Regardless of any contract signed (as a previous Anonymous poster cryptically stated), a minimum level of responsibility to the patient's health is required by ANY institution. That minimum includes making reasonable arrangements for the patient to have access to their medications. COD shipping by ground is not, by any standard, "reasonable."
So guess what, parent? You may be getting a sizeable percentage of the "investment" HLA coerced you to pay them right back into your pocket.
I'll be cheering for you from this sideline."
UNBIASED OUTSIDE OPINION BY MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAYS HLA IS "PREDATOR" VICTIMIZING PARENTS AND CHILDREN. WAKE UP, PEOPLE. :skull:
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traditional boarding school?
there's certainly no confusion in this staff's mind about HLAs classification.
I know that from this side of the fence, it is difficult to hear all the negative things that are being said. I chose to work at HLA b/c I believe in the concept of a therapeutic boarding school. I don't expect anyone to be thrilled with their time there. But HLA is there b/c someone, lots of someones, care about what happens to kids. I know everyone has different ways of working with people...kids and adults....not all of those are always positive. Things are the way they are b/c each person filters the rules and curriculum through his or her own experiences.
I haven't been there very long, and I don't know what it's like to watch people drive down the road when I have to stay. However, there is a reason that you and all of your HLA-mates were sent there. It's a big thing to accept responsibility for your actions and be able to admit that as crappy as it was/is....you needed something to help you get your shit together. I love the fact that you're honest with what you feel about your experiences, and I love hearing about what happens once your time is up. It's good you have this...there is strength in numbers.
http://tinyurl.com/sw2wq (http://tinyurl.com/sw2wq)
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Thank you for being honest about the fact that HLA is according to the staff a theraputic boarding school, and is in fact lying to the state regarding their purpose.
However.
I will take issue with some of your other statements.
Some (not all) students did need something to help them get their shit together. Some however (myself among them) were sent there for no reason whatsoever and were made to suffer through it without reason. Further, although many did need something to help them get their shit together HLA was not nessecarily it.
HLA takes the approach of a cookie cutter therapy. One size fits all. Unfortuatly it does not always work like that. They also employed a great deal of abusive and brainwashing tactics that would be hard pressed to benefit anyone.
Im not saying no one was ever helped by HLA. Im simply stating the fact that many were not, many were hurt by it. As well many never needed to be there in the first place. As well any small amount of good HLA may do is probably cancelled out by the overwhelmingly negative aspects which have been the brunt of these conversations.
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HIDDEN LAKE ACADEMY ACCREDITATION
(December 7, 1999) Rusty Ray, Director of Academics at Hidden Lake Academy (HLA), Dahlonega, Georgia, 706-864-4730, A STRUCTURED RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL, announced the school has been accepted as a Candidate for Accreditation with the Southeastern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS). SACS has stringent requirements, and a school must be in existence for at least five years before it can even begin the process of applying for accreditation. In the negotiations, Ray reported, the representatives of SACS were so impressed with what HLA was doing that they recommended they apply for accreditation as a TRADITIONAL PRIVATE SCHOOL, which has higher academic requirements than the category the school started the application with as a Special Purpose school.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/1/seen01.html)
HIDDEN LAKE ACADEMY SACS ACCREDITATION APPROVED
(September 21, 2001) Hidden Lake Academy, Dahlonega, Georgia, 800-394-0640, a THERAPEUTIC COED BOARDING SCHOOL for ages 13 ? 17, has been ?approved for accreditation with Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) as a TRADITIONAL, NONPUBLIC SCHOOL. The criteria for this accreditation are far more stringent than those required for a Special Needs School.?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/10/seen01.html)
HIDDEN LAKE ACAD. ACCREDITED BY SACS AS TRADITIONAL SCHOOL
(December 9, 2001) Dr. Len Buccellato, founder and Chairman of Hidden Lake Academy, Dahlonega, GA, 800-394-0640, was recognized by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, (SACS) at the SACS Annual Conference in New Orleans, LA, for being the first THERAPEUTIC BOARDING SCHOOL nationwide to achieve full academic accreditation as a TRADITIONAL SCHOOL.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives///////////2002/5/seennheard.html)
Structured Residential School
Traditional Private School
Special Purpose School
Therapeutic Boarding School
Traditional NonPublic School
5-part, 18 month Program
aka Emotional Growth School
Chameleon? Based on the situation?
As for SACS requirements for a Traditional BS being ?far more stringent?, they may be in terms of ?academics?. What are the requirements for the primary purpose- Therapeutic?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#83063 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8338&forum=9&start=0#83063)
We?ll have to see just how stringent SACS requirements are, if they see fit to accredit an RTC that was shut down by the Tx DPRS. They were previously a wilderness program, re-opening in the same location as an ?Academy?. The state will no longer place kids at the new facility.
Semantics. Slight of hand.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#120646 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11088&forum=9&start=0#120646)
NATSAP has graciously taken them into their fold. May have even advised them of the benefits of changing classifications.
http://natsap.org/programs_list.asp (http://natsap.org/programs_list.asp)
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Further proof that HLA claims to be two seperate things. Both a theraputic boarding school, and a traditional boarding school. Which ever is more convienent at the time.
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No. They claim to be a therapeutic school, but also meet the requirements of a traditional school according to SACS. Most people see this as a good thing. In fact, it is a big selling point for the school.
Do you really not understand that Robert? It is not that difficult.
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I see it as shiftless. When the licensing agents come around "Oh no! We're exempt, we're just your run-o-the-mill private accademic school! Similar to Hogwarts" But when a good mark comes along, "Well hell yeah! Call the escort service at 1-800-BeA-Punk and we'll snatch him outa his bed at night, cuffed and drugged if need be, for some miraculous rehabilitation!"
Which is closer to the truth?Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
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Niether of those comments are anywhere near the truth.
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On 2005-12-17 23:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niether of those comments are anywhere near the truth."
And your brain is cooked on meth. This is EXACTLY how it goes down. I've personally seen it MANY TIMES.
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I second that -- believe me and this person above, that does happen. Just a little over 50% of the kids that were there when I was were escorted. I was escorted from my fifth program to RCI, but my parents took me from RCI to HLA.
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Your fifth program??? Damn dude
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On 2005-12-17 23:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No. They claim to be a therapeutic school, but also meet the requirements of a traditional school according to SACS. Most people see this as a good thing. In fact, it is a big selling point for the school.
Do you really not understand that Robert? It is not that difficult."
They dont claim to be a traditional boarding school to the state. Do you not understand that? Do you not understand why? They claim to be one or the other out of conviencence. Tell your boss the jig is up.
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On 2005-12-17 23:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niether of those comments are anywhere near the truth."
Oh yes they are you just acknowledged it yourself. They claim to be one or the other depending on who they are talking to.
You cant be both.
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On 2005-12-18 11:15:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
On 2005-12-17 23:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niether of those comments are anywhere near the truth."
Oh yes they are you just acknowledged it yourself. They claim to be one or the other depending on who they are talking to.
You cant be both. "
Don't play semantics, Robert. LOL!
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Who is but you?
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On 2005-12-18 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Your fifth program??? Damn dude "
I've been through seven total. I've been to a trauma-based short term inpatient-followed-by-outpatient mental hospital, two runaway/alternate placement shelters, and then two residential treatment centers. All of these were in Texas, and each one I went to started taking me further and further away from home. I started from 5 minutes away from my house to 3 hours away. After my fifth (Meridell Achievement Center) I was escorted from Meridell to the Dallas/Fort-Worth Airport to be flown to the Atlanta-Hartsfield Jackson Airport, where I was then escorted from the ATL airport to Ridge Creek. All my other programs were not as bad at all, because I knew they were actually trying to geuninely help me, not just fuck with my head as they take my parents money straight out of their wallets. I know the in's and out's of programs, program life, therapy, treatment, addictions, and everything in between. I knew when I got to Ridge Creek and HLA I was in for a downhill experience. So what'd I do? Work my ass off and got out of there. Early. And I defeated the post-grad recommendation.
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Brag about being in programs, cool... :lol:
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I ain't braggin about shit. Sorry you see it that way. I'm just explaining to you why I'm qualified to talk about programs, because I've experienced many kinds and variations of programs that these kids go through.
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That's funny. Just about as funny as the fact that your too damn afraid to reveal your true name, or a nickname for that matter cause your afraid good ol Buchi and his therapy squad'll come after you. Poon.
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My name is Anthony Martini, assfuck...
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Maybe you should have behaved yourself at home and you wouldnt have had to go to 7 different programs and come on here bitchin and moanin. Would have saved yourself alot of posting on this board now wouldn't it
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And what the fuck is your name ? Just cause you have a screen name doesnt mean shit dude...
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On 2005-12-18 19:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe you should have behaved yourself at home and you wouldnt have had to go to 7 different programs and come on here bitchin and moanin. Would have saved yourself alot of posting on this board now wouldn't it"
Oh but then we wouldnt have the pleasure of seeing him shoot down all of your stupid and pointless arguements.
Now lets get back to that licensure issue. You claimed HLA is somehow both and I was playing with semantics by asking how that was legally possible.
Please elaborate.
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On 2005-12-18 19:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My name is Anthony Martini, assfuck..."
This is on your business card. "Anthony Martini, assfuck" :lol:
Some job title, bro.
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
:grin:
Oh wow that was nice. Really.
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That was gay , get over it, like thats what I meant, what a queer :lol:
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Like?
It was a very choice remark. Youre just upset cause it stings a bit.
I would have figured given your low level of intelligence though you'd be used to it by now.
Why are you even here? You cant win an argument with us were all smarter than you. Its obvious you know nothing about HLA, hence why you can never respond to any of the questions put to you.
But since in such a short amount of time why dont you offer up your typical non response by saying Im a cry baby or gay or something bright like that.
If Buch cant manage to find better stooges for hire than you this is going to be alot easier than any of us thought.
If for nothing else you make for a good laugh.
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Why do you keep on thinking Dr. Buccellato controls other's thoughts? Do you not think that people can think for themselves and decide on their own that you're full of shit? Are we just a little paranoid Mr. Bruce?
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On 2005-12-18 20:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why do you keep on thinking Dr. Buccellato controls other's thoughts? Do you not think that people can think for themselves and decide on their own that you're full of shit? Are we just a little paranoid Mr. Bruce?"
Not at all. I just know for a fact that the Buch monitors these sites and it seems awful strange that one employee after another would trudge on here spout of the usual progandic nonsense get defeated and leave only to be replaced by another.
I also know that free thought is not something thats encouraged at HLA, and HLA uses a great deal of brainwashing techniques. It would make sense that the staff would be subject to some of it as well.
Or do you not think its odd that only former employees have negative things to say about the school?
Please tell me what Im full of shit about. Specifically.
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and yet another informative thread headed for the ditch.
rb, why do you care what these morons think about you?
they weren't nice to you when you were there and they're not going to be nice to you now.
you needn't prove yourself to anyone. stop defending. just post what you know and ignore the rift raft.
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Putting these retards on the defensive and exposing them for what they are is worth it.
Besides others get to see as they wont respond to the real issues concerning HLA.
Licensure, staff behavior, living conditions, food rationing, that sort of thing.
Trust me though I could care less what they think for several reasons:
1. They dont have their own independent thoughts, they think and say only what they are told.
2. I didnt give a shit about their opinion on me or my actions then, why should I now?
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On 2005-12-18 19:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My name is Anthony Martini, assfuck..."
Assfuck ... That's ... 7 letters. Don't kill yourself now... take a break...
If you could spit off a derogatory name more than 7 letters, maybe you'd be able to see that if you click my e-mail link or my web link my full name is there. Your stupid as shit.
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im not sure its worth letting every thread deteriorate into attack-defense-attack-defense.
look at the last couple of pages. nothing to do with the title of this thread. a worthwhile topic, gone. anything of value that is posted after page 3 will probably be a waste, because the average person is not going to be interested in reading through another arguement, that contains no pertinent information.
give it some thought, would ya? :smile:
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I hear what youre saying, that why I try to return to the original question from time to time.
So on that note. Again Im looking to have explained how HLA can be both a traditional boarding school and a theraputic one.
Also if they claim to be both why arent they following the state regulations for a theraputic boarding school?
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thanks for your consideration.
the trolls are really starving just now. like a swirling mass of poria or leeches. and they seem particularly thirsty for your blood. don't give it to them.
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They wont get anything but embarresement and an admonishment from their boss the Buch.
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On 2005-12-18 22:09:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"They wont get anything but embarresement and an admonishment from their boss the Buch. "
YOU FUCKS HAVE NO LIVES..I HOPE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DIE :lol: :lol:
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On 2005-12-18 21:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"im not sure its worth letting every thread deteriorate into attack-defense-attack-defense.
look at the last couple of pages. nothing to do with the title of this thread. a worthwhile topic, gone. anything of value that is posted after page 3 will probably be a waste, because the average person is not going to be interested in reading through another arguement, that contains no pertinent information.
give it some thought, would ya? :smile: "
I'll think about it, Anon, right after you get a real user ID.
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On 2005-12-18 22:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-18 22:09:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"They wont get anything but embarresement and an admonishment from their boss the Buch. "
YOU FUCKS HAVE NO LIVES..I HOPE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY DIE :lol: :lol: "
Troll. Tell your Boss Buccie hello for me while your at it...
Speaking of no lives, where's good ol' Suzie Gray when we need her...
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You hope my family dies?
lol.
This all from hired puppets.
This ladies and gentlemen is who the Buch is after asking you for a measley 7000 dollars a month, will be turning your child over to.
All this anger because they missed out on getting any more money out of us.
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Not to mention Restrictions Staff...
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You can be assured that nobody here talking this bullshit and acting like 12 year olds cursing you boys out is being sent by Dr. B. These are probably other students or former staff and have nothing to do with Dr. B himself. Or, quite possibly, one of your own.
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"1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances"
1. Food is not rationed.
2. If you consider raking leaves, pulling weeds, and chopping wood physical labor then, yes, HLA has physical labor. My father called it hard work and he gave me more of it when I misbehaved. If a parent reading this cannot handle their child doing some hard work as a consequence, then they should not enroll their child at HLA.
3. Anyone can report greivances to Child Protective Services if they have a problem with something.
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On 2005-12-19 05:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
""1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances"
1. Food is not rationed.
2. If you consider raking leaves, pulling weeds, and chopping wood physical labor then, yes, HLA has physical labor. My father called it hard work and he gave me more of it when I misbehaved. If a parent reading this cannot handle their child doing some hard work as a consequence, then they should not enroll their child at HLA.
3. Anyone can report greivances to Child Protective Services if they have a problem with something."
1. Food IS rationed. That's a well-established fact. I've personally seen it done. They call it "restrictions" diet.
2. Physical labor is used as punishment. I've personally witnessed kids doing meaningless, back-breaking manual labor, like moving rockpiles (then moving them back). You admit in your post that HLA uses labor as punishment. That is illegal, no matter what the circumstances. Thank you for clearing up the fact that they are knowingly and willingly commiting crimes against these children.
3. There is no state representative available for grievences although it is REQUIRED by law under their business classification and accreditation. I think it has been made abundantly clear what happens when a patient expresses dissatisfaction: they are ignored and/or punished.
4. NO patient is allowed to report to CPS because they are denied any means to communicate abuse. There is no phone available (as required by law) and all mail is censored (in violation of constitutional rights). They cannot even report abuse to their therapists, as their communications from their sessions are, in violation of confidentiality law, shared with the management for discipline purposes.
5. The poster who made up this little "lie list" is so full of shit that their eyes are brown.
Why do you people come on here and continue to prevaricate when there are quite literally hundreds of people who can attest to the fact that what you are posting is completely untrue?
Deny, digress, dissemble. That's all you folks are capable of doing. You'll say and do anything to protect your revenue stream even when it is shown beyond doubt to be false.
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***If you consider raking leaves, pulling weeds, and chopping wood physical labor then, yes, HLA has physical labor. My father called it hard work and he gave me more of it when I misbehaved. If a parent reading this cannot handle their child doing some hard work as a consequence, then they should not enroll their child at HLA.
Surely, you're not implying that restriction kids only rake leaves, pull weeds, and chop wood are you. BTW, who benefits from the wood they chop?
Are parents told that their child will be moving rocks, cleaning dumpsters with toothbrushes, hauling gravel, digging steps, etc.
That sounds like labor that 'substitutes for paid employees', and if they were licensed it wouldn't be going on, unless they wanted to risk being in violation of state law.
(b) The following forms of discipline shall not be used:*
1. Assignment of excessive or unreasonable work tasks that are not related to the
resident's misbehavior;*
2. Denial of meals and hydration;*
3. Denial of sleep;*
4. Denial of shelter, clothing, or essential personal needs;*
5. Denial of essential program services;*
6. Verbal abuse, ridicule, or humiliation;*
7. Chemical restraints, except as provided for in Rule .12(3)(d)3. (Psychotropic
Medications), or mechanical restraints;*
8. Denial of communication and visits unless restricted in accordance with Rule .10(b)7.;
and*
9. Corporal punishment.*
(c) Children shall not be held solely responsible for the accomplishments of any work
activity of the institution such as food preparation, laundering, housekeeping, or facility
maintenance. Children shall not be considered substitutes for employed staff.*
What kind of association do the kids make with any potentially useful work they are required to do and the woods while at RC, because they are used as punishment?
Kids shouldn't be punished with consequences that are not related to the offense. That's not good parenting or the proper use of BM, if you want to get technical. In fact, it goes into the torture realm. Just cause daddy did it, don't make it right.
And yeh, parents should know how their kids will be 'parented' while in the care of strangers. Gotta ask the hard questions because the specifics aren't spelled out in the parent manual.
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"who benefits from the wood they chop?"
Poor people in the local community who still heat their houses with wood burning stoves. The kids deliver it to them.
Also, the students benefit from it by having fires in the lodge.
Staff are not allowed to use it.
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. Food IS rationed. That's a well-established fact. I've personally seen it done. They call it "restrictions" diet.
Your right. It used to be done. The school stopped doing it probably five or more years ago.
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On 2005-12-19 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
""who benefits from the wood they chop?"
Poor people in the local community who still heat their houses with wood burning stoves. The kids deliver it to them.
Also, the students benefit from it by having fires in the lodge.
Staff are not allowed to use it.
"
Under the terms spelled out below, HLA is in serious violation of the law.
Surely you jest when you say that the only forced labor is light-duty landscaping? I mean that's a complete lie and everyone who has ever been at HLA as a patient or a worker knows that's bunk.
I've seen kids work until they suffer from heat exhaustion and vomiting while doing mindless, undirected, non-beneficial punishment tasks.
You're full of it. And sugar-coating the least of the punishments.
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On 2005-12-19 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
". Food IS rationed. That's a well-established fact. I've personally seen it done. They call it "restrictions" diet.
Your right. It used to be done. The school stopped doing it probably five or more years ago."
Not according to recent patients. They confim that this is still happening.
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***Your right. It used to be done. The school stopped doing it probably five or more years ago.
Five years? No. The restrictions diet was in effect as of late 2001, possibly early 2002 or later. I would guess that it was changed around the time that ORS required them to apply for a license for RC.
Was a staff nutritionist hired? Who is now in charge of ensuring that meals are nutritionally adequate?
Any of you parents remember being told that the diet had been approved by the HD? And warned that your child might get 'sick' on the visit, after eating?
It would be helpful to know who is responding so one might determine the authenticity of the information. Not interested in a guess from Susie.
To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:38:21 -0500
Hello,
Please route this inquiry to the appropriate person or department. My son is enrolled in a private school in Lumpkin county. The school has a policy that causes me concern. The Director of the program told parents that a teen was given a limited calorie diet while on "restriction". The diet consists of 2 individual boxes of cereal for breakfast with a carton of milk and a white bread and cheese sandwich, a cup of soup, and a piece of fruit for both lunch and dinner.
The head of the Nutrition Dept at my local community college warned that this diet, at less than half the USDA requirement for an active teen, was inadequate. While on restriction the teen is required to do extra physical training and subject to work details.
I am writing you because the Director told parents that while "sparse", the diet had been approved by the local health dept. Given the advice I received, and for my son's sake, I must question the validity of this.
I am requesting written verification and a professional opinion from your office. Specifically, I would like to know if your department gave permission to Hidden Lake Academy in Dahlonega, Ga. to offer this diet to children while on restriction and/or approved the diet, and under what conditions. I would also like to know if your office was told that it was common for a teen to be on restriction, and taking this diet for a month or longer. A professional opinion from a staff nutritionist regarding the diet would also be appreciated.
From: "David Oberhausen"
Cc: , "Jean Garner" , "Linda Truelove" , "Melody Stancil"
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:09:39 -0400
Subject: letter of inquiry to the state public health office
The staff that could be reached and colleagues and supervisors of those who could not, have given me the following information.
It would not be a typical service of the health department to provide recommendations on a school policy regarding what would be an appropriate diet for a student or students, whether on restriction or not. That would come under the purview of a school dietitian or consulting dietitian, most likely, and would be a matter to be oveseen by the state department of education. No one in our organization has indicated any knowledge of speaking with a school representative regarding diets for students on restriction, but two additional staff members should be available to speak with tomorrow. If I determine anything else on this I will notify you immediately.
It is not our normal role to issue opinions regarding hypothetical situations. There are professionals in the private sector who are equipped to do this, as you have indicated you are aware given conversations with your department head. As public employees we would not wish to be in competition with the private sector in providing services unrelated to our health department programs.
I hope I have allayed your concerns that the public health system has been involved in a situation such as you described, and that I have suggested an alternative route for following up on your concerns, that is, with the state department of education. I will follow up with the two absent employees as soon as possible, but I want to reiterate that it would be outside our normal procedures to get involved with a school regarding matters of limiting food availability as a matter of discipline.
I hope you get satisfactory answers to your concerns soon.
From: "Hensley, Timothy K."
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:34:32 -0400
Subject: RE: DNPA Inquiry or Comment
We checked with one of our nutritionists, please see the note below . . .
This woman has serious concerns and should talk with her child's medical provider and have her physician work with the school's medical advisor. She should have her child examined by her physician and work closely with the school to match his dietary needs. I have no idea what the child's weight and health status are like and any special nutritional concerns. From the data she provided the school menu sounds inadequate and not balanced.
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On 2005-12-19 05:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
""1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances"
1. Food is not rationed.
2. If you consider raking leaves, pulling weeds, and chopping wood physical labor then, yes, HLA has physical labor. My father called it hard work and he gave me more of it when I misbehaved. If a parent reading this cannot handle their child doing some hard work as a consequence, then they should not enroll their child at HLA.
3. Anyone can report greivances to Child Protective Services if they have a problem with something."
1. If food isnt rationed now it certiannly used to be now didnt it. Was it okay then?
2. A parent should not enroll their child at HLA anyway, however that is not the current discussion. Considering its against state regulations HLA should not do it, considering they tell parents they dont do it they shouldnt do it, and considering the fact that it is systematically set up to save the school money. By using slave labor to do the regular maintainance around the school they dont have to pay anyone to do it. And that according to the Emancipation Proclamation is illegal.
3. Ummm are students permitted access to a phone without supervision? Can they write uncensored letters? Weve seen on here first hand what happens when students post things on websites such as this. So if they cant really have unfettered access to the outside world how are they able to bring their greivances to anyone without fear of consequence.
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On 2005-12-19 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Food IS rationed. That's a well-established fact. I've personally seen it done. They call it "restrictions" diet.
Your right. It used to be done. The school stopped doing it probably five or more years ago."
Why is it every time a program supporter is caught and has nothing left to say to avoid the issue, the next ploy is "We used to do that, but now we dont." Puleez :roll: KHK/Penny Walker recently pulled the same stunt.
http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/iteam/92a2f60.html (http://wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/iteam/92a2f60.html)
"Hagit Limor narration: WALKER SAYS THE PROGRAM HAS CHANGED OVER TIME, ELIMINATING SOME OF THE EXTREME RESTRAINTS FORMER CLIENTS DESCRIBED TO THE I-TEAM.
Hagit Limor on videotape: "When kids have power over kids, can that be abused?"
Penny Walker on videotape: "It can be. We watch very diligently for that. / What has changed is we don't tolerate violence any more. We used to."
Okay before you rabid trolls get all excited and say...that is not relevant to HLA, WRONG! It has everything to do with it. Many programs use identical tactics to avoid admitting how routinely children in their care are abused. Clearly, anon, you employ this same tactic. Seems to me there is evidence that this practice is still currently used.
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On 2005-12-19 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
""who benefits from the wood they chop?"
Poor people in the local community who still heat their houses with wood burning stoves. The kids deliver it to them.
Also, the students benefit from it by having fires in the lodge.
Staff are not allowed to use it.
"
Liar. I personally chopped wood for the Buch.
Who benefits from the forced building of restriction camps? Or cleaning of dumpsters with tooth brushes? Or constant landscaping?
Let me ask you if its not systematic, is there ever a time during the shcool year when work assingments arent going on?
They are used as slaves.
It is illegal, even if it being oh so generous of wood for the poor. Give me a break
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This must be impossible because according to Robert Bruce there is noone to report grievences to concerning HLA. This looks like a grienvence to me.
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Are you genuniely ignorant or being a smart ass?
Either way, anyone who has been to HLA knows that it is all but futile to report things. The phone call is ended immediately and consequences issued, and if necessary a damage control call to the parent.
After a lengthy indocerination period in which both parent and child are being manipulated and conditioned, the kid basically gives up. Is an attempt to report worth weeks of physical labor and limited calories, or more recently, a trip to boot camp hell?
If kids had access to a public phone with the 800 numbers to report abuse posted above it, they would be more inclined to report incidents when they ocur rather than years later on an internet forum.
While that's a good policy, I'm not sure how effective it would be at exposing and ending systematic abuse. Hell, many of the state staff have their own 'linient' definitions of abuse and are notorious for looking the other way.
Best if parents demand to have unmonitored contact with their children, and learn to distinquish a lie from the truth.
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Kids go on visits with their parents all the time. Starting with the two month visit. They are ALONE with them during those visits. There are kids going on visits for Christmas next week for seven days who have been here for 4 months. They can tell their parents ANYTHING they want to tell them.
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On 2005-12-19 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This must be impossible because according to Robert Bruce there is noone to report grievences to concerning HLA. This looks like a grienvence to me."
Are we current students dumbass?
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On 2005-12-19 12:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kids go on visits with their parents all the time. Starting with the two month visit. They are ALONE with them during those visits. There are kids going on visits for Christmas next week for seven days who have been here for 4 months. They can tell their parents ANYTHING they want to tell them. "
Two month visit? No such thing exist unless things have seriously changed. Youre also casually leaving out the parent hand book is chock full of statements like "Your child will try and manipulate you and tell you HLA is an awful place. Do not believe him."
They also hear the same thing week in and week out in parent phone calls. If HLA truly has nothing to hide they would allow students unrestricted communication with their parents.
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Yes a two month visit does exist and has existed for over a year now. Nice to see you stay on top of what is going on. You must really be out of touch with HLA if didn't know about that.
Yes the parent handbook warns against kids manipulating their parents, because KID TRY TO MANIPULATE THEIR PARENTS. Do you seriously think otherwise. Wow!! You have no clue how many of the kids at HLA work. Are you SURE you went there. You seem pretty ignorant.
Since a two month visit does exist, I am glad to hear you reccognize that things have really changed for the better at HLA. That is very nice of you RB.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes a two month visit does exist and has existed for over a year now. Nice to see you stay on top of what is going on. You must really be out of touch with HLA if didn't know about that. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
As I said before dumbass Im not in inmate there, besides none of the things that matter have apparently changed now have they?
>>>>>>>>>>>Yes the parent handbook warns against kids manipulating their parents, because KID TRY TO MANIPULATE THEIR PARENTS. Do you seriously think otherwise. Wow!! You have no clue how many of the kids at HLA work. Are you SURE you went there. You seem pretty ignorant. <<<<<<<<<<<
Do you seriously think HLA staffers dont try and manipulate parents? Or better put con them out of more money? As I said before if HLA had nothing to hide they would allow unrestricted communication between parent and child. Oh and as well as being sure I went there Im sure youre little more than one of many lap dogs. Are you so ignorant that you thought the truth about things would never come out?
>>>>>>>>>>>Since a two month visit does exist, I am glad to hear you reccognize that things have really changed for the better at HLA. That is very nice of you RB.<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Have they now? Are they still rationing food? Are they still encouraging kids to kill try and kill themselves? Are they still using kids as slave labor? Do they still employ brainwashing techniques? Do they still try and force kids to acknowledge problems they dont have? Are kids still abused physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally? Do they still keep kids from telling their parents the truth about their situation? Do they still try and sow discord among the kids by forcing them to rat each other out? Do they still punish kids indefinitly for a refusal to acknowledge guilt? Do they still have a substandard educational system? Do they still have substandard food? Do the kids still live in squalor?
If so then again nothing that matters has changed no matter how many visits the inmates get.
Thanks for reinforcing that. It was very nice of you.
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On 2005-12-19 13:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
Yes the parent handbook warns against kids manipulating their parents, because KID TRY TO MANIPULATE THEIR PARENTS. Do you seriously think otherwise. Wow!! You have no clue how many of the kids at HLA work."
Who the hell are you/program to decide if a child is being manipulative or not???? NO Manual/program has the right to tell parents what does or does not constitute manipulation. Only a parent should making the decision whether or not THEIR child is being manipulative or not. PARENTS know their children better than anyone.
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That sounds good, but is naive. You really have no understanding of how people think do you.
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On 2005-12-19 12:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kids go on visits with their parents all the time. Starting with the two month visit. They are ALONE with them during those visits. There are kids going on visits for Christmas next week for seven days who have been here for 4 months. They can tell their parents ANYTHING they want to tell them. "
What about the previous 4 months of no contact or censored contact. Who do they report abuse to during the time they are forbidden contact with their parents or a CPS worker?
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So Robert, are stating for the record that you have knowledge of kids being physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally abused? Is that what you are saying is a fact and are committed to that statement?
If so, I hope you can back it up.
If not, why are you saying things that you can't commit to?
I look forward to your evasive response.
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On 2005-12-19 14:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That sounds good, but is naive. You really have no understanding of how people think do you. "
How is this naive? EXPLAIN
How am I not understanding how people think? EXPLAIN
I made a valid point and you resort to insults instead of debating the issue at hand. I am not interested in any of your responses if all you can manage is a insult. Try debating with a counter argument, that would be interesting.
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On 2005-12-19 14:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That sounds good, but is naive. You really have no understanding of how people think do you. "
Oh but we do. We just understand better than you that:
A. Not all children try to manipulate. Espically with HLA, there really isnt a reason to when telling the truth will suffice.
and
B. Adults, espically greedy child abusing ones are just as capable and willing to manipulate things in order to achieve their goals.
You still havent answered the question though. If HLA has nothing to hide why restrict communication?
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Because kids manipulate their parents. Especially ones that are in programs and don't want to be there. If I were in a program, I would tell my parents anything I could to get pulled. It happens Robert. The more you talk, the less you sound like a kid who has been around kids at HLA. I question everything you have said at this point, because you sound so ignorant.
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On 2005-12-19 14:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So Robert, are stating for the record that you have knowledge of kids being physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally abused? Is that what you are saying is a fact and are committed to that statement?
If so, I hope you can back it up.
If not, why are you saying things that you can't commit to?
I look forward to your evasive response."
I have seen kids mentally/emotionally/physically abused and I have correspondences from young women who claim they were sexually abused.
That's not evasive.
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On 2005-12-19 14:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So Robert, are stating for the record that you have knowledge of kids being physically, sexually, emotionally, and mentally abused? Is that what you are saying is a fact and are committed to that statement?
If so, I hope you can back it up.
If not, why are you saying things that you can't commit to?
I look forward to your evasive response."
I personally was physically, mentally, and emotionally abused yes. I have heard first hand accounts of people being sexually abused, both while there and afterwards through venues such as this and other contact with former students.
Is that evasie enough for you?
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On 2005-12-19 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because kids manipulate their parents. Especially ones that are in programs and don't want to be there. If I were in a program, I would tell my parents anything I could to get pulled. It happens Robert. The more you talk, the less you sound like a kid who has been around kids at HLA. I question everything you have said at this point, because you sound so ignorant. "
How do you determine if a child is being manipulative? Just cause a kid wants out DOESNT mean the kid is being manipulative by stating his HONEST wishes to be removed to a parent. Whether the child belongs there is for the parent to determine, not for some uneducated staffer to determine. Kids are routinely put in these places when they clearly dont belong there....kids can tell when they are in a place they dont belong...and when they express this OBVIOUS FACT, that is NOT manipulation. Or, kids often unconsciously or consciously recognize mistreatment/abuse, but dont know how to express it except in the form of asking their parents to let them leave. This is NOT manipulation, this is a SMART kid using his survival instincts.
Do you know what manipulation is?
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On 2005-12-19 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because kids manipulate their parents. Especially ones that are in programs and don't want to be there. If I were in a program, I would tell my parents anything I could to get pulled. It happens Robert. The more you talk, the less you sound like a kid who has been around kids at HLA. I question everything you have said at this point, because you sound so ignorant. "
Honestly, you are either the most ignorant person on here or just a committed liar and dogmatist. I mean, c'mon, you're on this board all day all night. You're either getting paid to be here or you're just a seriously misguided dope with no sense of reality.
I just hope you understand that your factually bereft, dogmatic defense of your RTC only shows prospective parents how shady you are: willing to say anything to defend abuses you yourself have already acknowledged. You're a pretty sad case.
I'm sure that you have actually discouraged business with your actions. Thanks for the help. Not to mention, your activity here will boost this site to the top of search engines when people look for info on your RTC. I'm afraid their first impression of you is going to undermine your marketing endeavors.
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On 2005-12-19 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because kids manipulate their parents. Especially ones that are in programs and don't want to be there. If I were in a program, I would tell my parents anything I could to get pulled. It happens Robert. The more you talk, the less you sound like a kid who has been around kids at HLA. I question everything you have said at this point, because you sound so ignorant. "
Wrong. This is a common tactic among the TCs. Anything negative that a kid says about a program is automatically pegged as 'manipulation'. It's been going on since they first sprang up. At least since I was in one over 20 years ago. Same fucking shit, different wrapper. You and people like you have no fucking clue as to the kind of lasting damage that is done in the name of 'help'. It won't stop until the altruistic do-gooders wake up and realize that they can't treat children like this and expect them to come out the better for it.
As someone is fond of saying, Please....we've had all the 'help' we can stand. STOP HELPING!!!
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On 2005-12-19 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because kids manipulate their parents. Especially ones that are in programs and don't want to be there. If I were in a program, I would tell my parents anything I could to get pulled. It happens Robert. The more you talk, the less you sound like a kid who has been around kids at HLA. I question everything you have said at this point, because you sound so ignorant. "
Do I now? This coming from a puppet, how cute.
Riddle me this though, what would you tell your parent if you really were in an abusive program?
Im not arguing kids dont try and manipulate their parents, I never claimed as much and youre simply to stupid to understand that.
What I am stating is that sometimes kids tell the truth, HLA capitalizes on the fact that yes many kids do have a history of lying to their parents, for that reason they tell the parents "expect your child to lie about this place, they'll say its bad when its really great, they just dont want to work." They then tell the parent the same thing over and over again about how your child will lie and say all kinds of awful things. They then further prevent the child from openly communicating with the parent to express any concernes, and if the child tries he is punished.
A point which you still have not addressed.
I am also further stating that while yes sometimes children lie and manipulate, adults can do it to.
I mean I assume youre an adult yet here you are lying about things and trying to manipulate the situation, all while getting frustrated because its not working out.
Sometimes adults lie.
Sometimes adults manipulate.
Sometimes they do it out of greed.
Acknowledge this or stop talking, as any further comments from you would be pointless and you would be known as not just a puppet by one so blinded and brainwashed by the party line you are incapable of stating anything else.
In the meantime remember the boy who cried wolf. Sometimes even a liar tells the truth.
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On 2005-12-19 05:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
""1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances"
1. Food is not rationed.
2. If you consider raking leaves, pulling weeds, and chopping wood physical labor then, yes, HLA has physical labor. My father called it hard work and he gave me more of it when I misbehaved. If a parent reading this cannot handle their child doing some hard work as a consequence, then they should not enroll their child at HLA.
3. Anyone can report greivances to Child Protective Services if they have a problem with something."
That sounds all nice and fancy if your not there, never went there, or never will be going there. Try living on the campus for 13 months... then come back and tell me how it was...
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On 2005-12-19 14:31:00, RobertBruce wrote:
What I am stating is that sometimes kids tell the truth, HLA capitalizes on the fact that yes many kids do have a history of lying to their parents, for that reason they tell the parents "expect your child to lie about this place, they'll say its bad when its really great, they just dont want to work." They then tell the parent the same thing over and over again about how your child will lie and say all kinds of awful things. They then further prevent the child from openly communicating with the parent to express any concernes, and if the child tries he is punished."
Yup, that happened to me, word for word....I repeatedly insisted that I had never tried drugs and was only drunk once....I was repeately called a liar by staff...but I was telling the truth...what Robert said is completely true...that is exactly what programs condition parents to believe, that kids will lie to get out of the program...BUT in reality, programs MANIPLULATE parents so they can collect hefty fees, with no interest whatsoever if the child belongs there.....programs are expert maniplators, so its no surprise programs ALWAYS try to hide this by accusing the children of being the manipulators.
"Sometimes adults lie.
Sometimes adults manipulate.
Sometimes they do it out of greed.
In the meantime remember the boy who cried wolf. Sometimes even a liar tells the truth."
All the above is so true that I thought it should be repeated.
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Given that Ga Regs state:
(b) "Child caring institution" means any institution, society, agency, or facility, whether incorporated or not, which either primarily or incidentally provides full-time care for children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes, subject to such exceptions as may be provided in rules and regulations of the Board of Human Resources. For purposes of these rules, a child caring institution means any institution, society, agency, or facility that provides such care to six or more children.*
Exemption:
2. Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education,
provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published
academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department
of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living,
shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the
facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in
these rules.*
290-1-6-.08 Exemptions.
In an administrative or legal proceeding under this Chapter, a person claiming an
exemption or an exception granted by law, rule, regulation, or formal order has the
burden of proving this exemption or exception.
Authority O.C.G.A. Sec. 31-2-6. History. Original Rule entitled "Exemptions" adopted. F. Jul. 27, 1993; eff. Aug. 16, 1993.
THE QUESTION IS, HOW DID HLA PROVE TO THE STATE THAT THEIR PRIMARY PURPOSE IS EDUCATION?
(b) A service plan shall be developed by the child's Human Services Professional in
concert with the child's primary Child Care Worker, meaning the worker who has
responsibility for supervision of the child in the living unit where the child resides. The
plan shall contain the following data:
1. The results of the assessment and identified needs;
2. Statements of time-limited goals and objectives for the child and family and methods
of achieving them and evaluating them;
3. Statements of activities to be followed by the child and staff members in pursuit of the
stated goals and objectives;
4. Statements of any special care and services that will be arranged for or provided
directly;
5. Statements of goals and preliminary plans for discharge;
6. Statements about the types of discipline that should be employed when necessary; and
7. Statements about any restrictions of communications or visitations with any persons;
such statements shall clearly show that the health, safety, and welfare of the child would
be adversely affected by such communications or visits.
(c) The child, and the parent(s) or guardian(s), or child placing agency representative shall
be involved in the development of the service plan, and its periodic updates as described
below.
(d) The service plan shall be updated by the Human Services Professional at a minimum
of every six months and pertinent progress notes and data shall be incorporated in the
plan to measure attainment of stated goals and objectives. The child's primary Child Care
Worker shall participate in the updating.
290-2-5-.12 Child Care Services.
(1) Casework Services. All children in care and families of children in care shall receive
case work services as provided in their service plan from their assigned Human Services
Professional or other appropriate professionals who shall meet with and counsel with the
children. The results of such counseling shall be recorded in the children's case records.
The purpose of such services are to identify and monitor the children's and families'
progress relative to the needs, goals and objectives identified in child care assessments
and service plans and to discuss any problems being encountered by or with the children
in care.
NO SERVICE PLAN OR CASEWORK SERVICES?
HOW IS THE PROGRESS, OR LACK OF PROGRESS OF RESIDENTS MEASURED?
ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL?
HOW CAN YOU ADVERTISE TO TREAT MULTIPLE PSYCH DXs AND NOT PROVIDE A SERVICE PLAN/CASEWORK SERVICES?
$7000/MONTH IS QUIET HEFTY FOR GLORIFIED BABY-SITTING.
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Man it is easy to get you guys worked up. You all are hillarious.
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On 2005-12-19 18:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Man it is easy to get you guys worked up. You all are hillarious."
Hahahahaaa :lol: , Is this GREAT ENTERTAINMENT OR WHAT!!
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You mean easy to highlight your idiocy.
How many times were dropped as a baby?
What is this job you claim you have where you dont work instead just sit around being a amature troll.
Admit it, you live in your grandmas basement, your grossly overweight, you masturbate multiple times a day given the fact that youre still a virgin yet at least 35 years old. You have no job, and the only reason you ever came onto these boards in the first place was in the hopes of meeting teenage girls.
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Exactlty Bruce..Post a pic of yourself...Dick face :scared: :lol:
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Wow.
For as much gay bashing comes for you two I had no idea you were homosexual.
I mean why else would you want to see a picture of me.
Maybe it wasnt those teenage girls you were after but the teenage boys.
I guess the doctor was right about you homophobes. Youre all gay.
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What a typical gay Bruce lame excuse response, we dont want to fantasize about your ugly ass Brucey boy, we want to see how COOL and Hot you are, since you like saying we are fat and live in grannys basement :lol: Come on man, post a pic, be a man
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You say you dont want to fantasize about me, just to see how hot I am?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Man oh man youve really got some identity issues, its time you came out of the closet and stopped kidding yourself. No one else is buying it. How do you think granny will react? Maybe Buch and the doctor can put you both in touch with some nice support groups in your area.
We are all here to support you.
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Who gives a shit what ol' Brucey looks like......all that matters is that he obviously knows whats really up in program land....a whole lot of bullshit.
I see you little troll(s) have not answered any of my questions, nor bothered to make a counter argument to my posts. I'm waiting...... :roll:
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They (he) wont answer, they're (he's) to busy fantasizing about what all us young men look like hoping grandma doesnt come down stairs and suprise them again.
Hoping against hope that every boy on here is black (as much as they talk about them it would appear its part of the fantasy) and imagining in their (his) mind how his romantic vision would play out. Hence why they (he) claimed at first they (he) wanted to know what I looked but then changed their (his) mind because they (he) already gotten a clear perfect vision in their (his) mind(s).
With all that fantasizing going on and listening for granny they (he) doesnt have time to answer your questions.
And even if they (he) wasnt busy they (he) cant.
Cause he's just to stupid.
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ROBERT !!!
Read the last two pages of this thread. What have you accomplished? Stop defending yourself.
You are not holding anyone accountable or whatever the excuse you gave was for arguing with them. They are wasting your time, bandwidth, and discouraging new readers who may come here looking for accurate information.
Dude, stop feeding the trolls, please. Let them die a natural death. They're feasting on your attention.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =80#156809 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12693&forum=41&start=80#156809)
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He reminds me of Jarhead. Complained when we used his tactics against him. Thats all I'm doing now, fucking with him until he leaves. He's not here most of the time anyway, the important conversations still come through.
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Since when did immature rhetoric = tactics? It doesn't take a rocket scientist looking at the thread to realize that someone is pretending to be multiple posters. Look at the sentance structures, punctuation, wording, etc.
Seems shady to me.
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Im aware thats why I posted the they (he) thing.
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On 2005-12-19 20:59:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Im aware thats why I posted the they (he) thing. "
There are more than two
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 11:05 ]
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On 2005-12-20 04:38:00, Jarhead6 wrote:
"Oh, I'm still here. And you have accomplished what exactly? You used the same tactics and accomplished what, 20 pages of wasted bandwidth. Just goes to show that the tactics are faulty. Which was my point all a long."
forgive me if i'm mistaken, but i can't recall that you have evr added anything meaningful to the conversation. i've seen you ramble on about your military history and threaten kids by challenging them to a physical fight, but i haven't seen anything productive or meaningful.
why don't you just lay back in the cut until you come up with something to add?
to me you're really just another example of hla's questionable employee vetting process.
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On 2005-12-20 04:38:00, Jarhead6 wrote:
"Oh, I'm still here. And you have accomplished what exactly? You used the same tactics and accomplished what, 20 pages of wasted bandwidth. Just goes to show that the tactics are faulty. Which was my point all a long."
Yet at the same time Ive opened up how many new issues to discuss concerning HLA's shady practices.
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***Yes a two month visit does exist and has existed for over a year now. Nice to see you stay on top of what is going on. You must really be out of touch with HLA if didn't know about that.
Over a year?
As of April, the website apparently still stated that visits happened every 4 months, provided the kid wasn't on restriction or behind in school.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#93496 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8631&forum=41&start=0#93496)
Why two months before orientation?
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Interestingly enough the "two month visit" consist of an entire free afternoon.
My goodness the playing with semantics never end.
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How long should it be?
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On 2005-12-20 20:18:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Interestingly enough the "two month visit" consist of an entire free afternoon.
My goodness the playing with semantics never end. "
I was one of the only peer groups to have a four-day 2-month but that's because ours hit right around Christmas so we backed it up so that the 23-27th we'd be off. Only to come back and go on a five-day because a close friend called my mom Christmas night and Mom let me listen to her.
Ridiculous.
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Only to come back and go on a five-day because a close friend called my mom Christmas night and Mom let me listen to her.>>>
huh? that's not clear.
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He's saying while he was on his visit home for Christmas a friend of his called his mom, and his mom let listen on the phone while the friend talked.
As a punishment for this awful horrendus crime, he was put on a five day restriction of rationed food, slave labor, and made to stay outdoors in winter for extended periods of time.
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Read about a parent who allowed a phone call then narced on her kid.
Was this a case of bait and punish? Or how did they know about the call?
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On 2005-12-21 05:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How long should it be?"
I dont determine such things, but a better name for it might be...."the two month stopping by". How many parents come for this whole afternoon?
Why was it instituted?
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Actually, it wasn't narcing out. They had told my Mom to use her discretion and if she believed I was ready, I could. And then they turned it around on her once the visit was over.
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I was gonna say if she did pull a bait and punish she learned it from them, but it looks like it was just HLA acting pretty typically.
Tell me what is the benefits of such a tactic?
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ahhh the good ol bait and punish
laura baucom. worse counselor in the history of that place. ALWAYS did that shit. she'd come to me like she gave a shit about my problems, then when i started taking about them would put me on restriction for things, even sent me on challenges to "think".
gotta love hla therapy. you know, i've talked to many doctors, many psychologists, and many professors, all of whoms opinion i respect more than a bunch of kids, or a bunch of adults, which is really all any of you are to me. they all said that if a therapist can take punitive measures against a client, then the relationship is not the sort of relationship that breeds productive psychotherapy. how are you supposed to be honest with fear of punishment constantly looming? even animals, through stimuli, can be taught that if something causes anguish of any sort, that they should not continue to do it. case in point. when i learned that whenever i would open up about anything and actually try and give the theraputic side of hidden lake a chance, i would get in trouble. so i stopped caring, and learned to tune hla out. to survive, to just get by and wait it out.
just food for thought.
dan pg 26
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Please any of you puppets try and respond to this, just please let me see any of you refute this.
This is EXACTLY what I told my counsolers while an inmate at HLA.
Dan's post just killed this thread, because none of you will have the balls or the brains to respond. Not even you Aften what with your massive testicals and all.
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Okay. I will refute it.
Poor actions equal negative consequences. It is a fact of life. If you don't want negative consequences, don't do negative actions. Unfortunately, Dan never learned to stop blaming others for his actions. He thinks he went on a challenge because he opened up, when in reality it was because of his poor behavior. If Dan could take a look at himself and take responsibility for his actions he would stop blaming others.
Dan stopped caring because it was easier to do that than to accept responsibility for himself. Fortunately, most students that attend HLA do learn to accept personal responsibility and form very close relationships with their counselors.
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On 2005-12-21 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay. I will refute it.
Poor actions equal negative consequences. It is a fact of life. If you don't want negative consequences, don't do negative actions. Unfortunately, Dan never learned to stop blaming others for his actions. He thinks he went on a challenge because he opened up, when in reality it was because of his poor behavior. If Dan could take a look at himself and take responsibility for his actions he would stop blaming others.
Dan stopped caring because it was easier to do that than to accept responsibility for himself. Fortunately, most students that attend HLA do learn to accept personal responsibility and form very close relationships with their counselors.
"
You didnt refute that at all, you barely addressed the issue, of those who we are supposed to be able to trust are the ones punishing us for doing just that.
You evaded it because you have no response. Thanks.
Now to address your other equally retarded comments.
You have no clue what Dan's actions were while at HLA. You have no idea why he was sent out into the woods. Why pretend otherwise? Many people were punished for inconsequential things, or for being accused of a crime but not being guilty. I know of one student in particular who was placed on a fall in simply because he was close to graduating and had never been on one before.
Also who are you to speak for "most students"? How many of them have you known and spoken to? The ones I speak with (hundreds) usually hated their counsolers. The ones they didnt were the non sadistic ones who were generally fired or quit because they couldnt stand the enviornment any longer. I personally couldnt stand most of my counsolers, and it had nothing to do with "not accepting respondsibility for my actions" it had to do with the fact that they sought out crimes and problems for us and sought to make each kid there think they were a bad person iregardless of their actions or past.
Now address the point originally made or shut up.
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Well said ANON, but don't expect Robert Bruce to buy into that kind of thinking. He is far too liberal minded to understand personal accountability. Too far to the left.
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I did refute it, you are uncappable of seeing that however.
I know exacty what Dan's actions were when he was there because I was there at the same time. I won't go into details because I don't want to embarass him.
I am just as qualified to speak for "most students" as you are.
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HAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats why above my desk is a thank you letter from the President regarding my work on his reelection campaign, which is right next to a picture of Sen. McCain and myself.
Trust me Im a pretty conservative guy.
Idiot.
Now on to your stupid assumptions. I believe in accepting respondsibility for ones actions. I believe it so firmly Im here almost every day among other places working to ensure HLA accepts respondsibility for its actions. Namley abusing children.
I believe a person should be held accountable for what theyve done. Much like the Buch and others will be held accountable.
What I dont believe in is tactics like "bait and punish" brainwashing, inventing sins a person never committed, punishing them for nothing, forcing them to acknowledge guilt when no crime has been committed and believing a person can form a bond with someone whose principal job is to punish.
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On 2005-12-21 12:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I did refute it, you are uncappable of seeing that however.
I know exacty what Dan's actions were when he was there because I was there at the same time. I won't go into details because I don't want to embarass him.
I am just as qualified to speak for "most students" as you are."
I believe Im very cappable. I knew Dan at HLA, I knew what kind of inmate he was, you cant embarress him because he doesnt care what you think. You did not address the issue of in what world a person is supposed to form a bond with a therapist that punishes him.
It almost as if HLA encourages...what is it Stockhom syndrome?
Oh and I garruntee you I speak to more former students than you do, so no I am more qualified.
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wrong again. i tried to form a relationship with my counselors. it was impossible. it had nothing to do with taking the easy way out, it had to do with the fact that the "therapy" was hurting more then helping, so i didnt want to end up more fucked up. go ahead, list what i did there. i have no shame, i was young and dumb, and ended up a good person because of steps i took not related to HLA at all. you have no clue why i was sent on challenges. you werent me or my counselors, so seriously, shut your mouth.
dan pg 26
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On 2005-12-21 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well said ANON, but don't expect Robert Bruce to buy into that kind of thinking. He is far too liberal minded to understand personal accountability. Too far to the left."
Apparently you're too far to the right to be able to understand that breaking a kid to *build them back up* is a piss-poor way of dealing w/ ANYone, let alone a vulnerable child. You appear to be more from the school of *well, its for their own good*. People have posted plenty here to back up the FACT that *theraputic communities*, RTCs or whatever the fuck you want to call them are more HARMFUL THAN GOOD. You consistently choose to ignore those posts and latch onto whatever bullshit you can about what kids did to *embarass* themselves in there. Typical. Did you even look at the links that were provided to you regarding bootcamps and forced *therapy*? Did you look at any of the links that speak about the harm that *confrontational therapy* does? I didn't think so.
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"HAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats why above my desk is a thank you letter from the President regarding my work on his reelection campaign, which is right next to a picture of Sen. McCain and myself."
Geez. I guess if your that politically knowledgeable HLA must have taught you pretty well. That is, of course, unless you are full of it and just making all of this up.
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Be careful not to date yourself Robert. People might find out who you are.
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Nice.
Instead of addressing the point made you have to focus on something of absolute zero consequence.
This may come as a suprise to you but I did attend the majority of my education at places other than HLA.
On top of the fact that I am currently in college where Ive learned one or two things.
To be honest with you the education at HLA was so poor I dont think I learned anything there I either didnt already know, or was glazed over to such a degree I had to relearn it down the line.
Now that Ive shot down your attempted diversion lets address your earlier point. You claimed I was far to liberal to ever believe in personal respondsibility. Apparently I shut you down on both fronts. Not only am I conservative minded but I am an ardent supporter of personal respondsibility.
Soooooo how does that fit in with your theory?
Oh and what is it you think I might be making up?
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Making up that you worked for W's re-election and have met McCaine. By the way...I would consider McCaine more moderate than conservative. That is why so many people would like for him to be the next President. Not that that has anything to do with HLA.
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and all of this has WHAT to do with the topic of this thread "Liscensure Questions"?
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and yet you still cant address the issue.
I have no need to make anything up. Im staring at the proof right here.
Oh and yes McCain is a moderate, but he's still a moderate conservative, and yes I think he would make an excellent choice for the next President hence why I took the oppurtunity to meet him at that event.
Now address the issue.
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Robert,
You are so tied up on this board all of the time, I don't see how you would have time to be a part of a campain. Much less study. Of, a basket-weaving major probably doesn't have much studying to do.
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and yet still he is afraid to respond.
You may or may not have heard, but the election actually finished a little over a year ago. I dont really do much work for it these days, since its not really happening anymore.
Another thing you may or may not be aware of is that there is this obscure little holiday coming up called Christmas. Crazy I know. But at any rate whenever this holiday shows up the college goes all nuts and tells us to go home for a couple of weeks.
Now address the issue if you can muster up the courage.[ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-12-21 23:45 ]
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Ladies and Gentlemen...Introducing Mr. Robert Bruce....
Straight from the Myspace.com site of Mr. Devin Reyner.
"My all time hero is John McCain, that man without a doubt should be our next President."
"Hmmm, well Im a history major"
"On that political note, I did have the goal of meeting John McCain but Ive attained that goal so that one is kind of out."
Mr. Reyner was also at HLA at the same time as Dan from PG 26.
Thank you, Devin.
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Yes doofus Im the only person on the entire planet who likes John McCain, and is a history major. Both issues Devin and I have discussed at length.
hahaha dork. [ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-12-21 14:48 ]
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Nice try Devin. Your not fooling anyone.
My...you are gullible.
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As are you. Im looking at the page right now. Devin is not a history major.
Try again. :grin:
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"Yes doofus Im the only person on the entire planet who likes John McCain, and is a history major. Both issues Devin and I have discussed at length."
If you have discussed the issue at length, then why would you have to look up his (your) sight to verify wether or not he is a history major. You keep tripping over yourself, Devin.
Try to play all the tricks you want Devin, the truth is out.
By the way...the part about Devin (you) being a history major was copied and pasted straight from the sight.
Come on Devin. You can do better. You seem rattled and are not thinking clearly.
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Well that explains everything. No wonder Mr. Bruce is not thinking clearly. He is a George Bush supporter!!!!!
:wstupid:
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On 2005-12-21 13:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-21 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well said ANON, but don't expect Robert Bruce to buy into that kind of thinking. He is far too liberal minded to understand personal accountability. Too far to the left."
Apparently you're too far to the right to be able to understand that breaking a kid to *build them back up* is a piss-poor way of dealing w/ ANYone, let alone a vulnerable child. You appear to be more from the school of *well, its for their own good*. People have posted plenty here to back up the FACT that *theraputic communities*, RTCs or whatever the fuck you want to call them are more HARMFUL THAN GOOD. You consistently choose to ignore those posts and latch onto whatever bullshit you can about what kids did to *embarass* themselves in there. Typical. Did you even look at the links that were provided to you regarding bootcamps and forced *therapy*? Did you look at any of the links that speak about the harm that *confrontational therapy* does? I didn't think so."
Guess I'll ask these questions again. You're very quick to respond to shit that is inconsequential. You're also real quick with the personal attacks. Think there's an off chance that you might actually respond to some of the legitimate questions that have been posed to you on here?????????????
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Everbody with some sense realizes that George W. Bush is the most corrupt crooked stupid president we have ever had. Then there are those who are blinded by patriotism and think that it is un american to go against the president. People, it is our RIGHT to state when we think the govt is fucking up. It is our RIGHT to demand the president own up to his mistakes. It is our RIGHT to rebel. To not do so is UNAmerican! That is what our Constitution was based on. Its time to stand up for what we are OWED.We are owed a decent president!
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That is what our Constitution was based on......Its time to stand up for what we are OWED.We are owed a decent president!"
Someone said that a couple hunderd years ago so they invented the voting booth
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Yes and then the powers that be invented the paperless computer voting machine and elections have been crookedly won ever since, especially in Florida and Ohio and Texas. Everybody I spoke to at my job and in my neighborhood did NOT vote for Bush. Not a single person in my entire family voted for Bush. Tell me the election wasn't won crookedly and Ill show you a bridge for sale.
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On 2005-12-21 15:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes and then the powers that be invented the paperless computer voting machine and elections have been crookedly won ever since, especially in Florida and Ohio and Texas. Everybody I spoke to at my job and in my neighborhood did NOT vote for Bush. Not a single person in my entire family voted for Bush. Tell me the election wasn't won crookedly and Ill show you a bridge for sale."
Okay so you feel your family is representative of the other 300 million or so people or is it possible a few dont agree with you. So if we go back to paper ballots Kerry would be elected?
You should check out others sources besides a few family members, I'm sure John Kerry is saying the same thing "Whats wrong all my kids voted for me, the election must be rigged"
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Take this to the political forum, Tacitus' Realm and get back to the topic at hand. Any of you pro-HLA people care to address the questions that have been asked??
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Moving on to what this topic was made for...
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On 2005-12-21 16:24:00, WestSideStud2430 wrote:
"Moving on to what this topic was made for..."
I wouldn't hold out much hope for that. It looks like they're real good at the hit and run attacks that have absolutely NOTHING to do with any of the serious questions people have asked of them. They ignore those and run.
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Trolls, your just proving our point -- that we caught you red-handed in a lie and you can do nothing but run away from holding yourselves accountable...
Isn't that what HLA is all about?
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On 2005-12-21 16:36:00, WestSideStud2430 wrote:
"Trolls, your just proving our point -- that we caught you red-handed in a lie and you can do nothing but run away from holding yourselves accountable...
Isn't that what HLA is all about?"
Suck my fat cock you nigger...HLA is a great place for ALL
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On 2005-12-21 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-21 16:36:00, WestSideStud2430 wrote:
"Trolls, your just proving our point -- that we caught you red-handed in a lie and you can do nothing but run away from holding yourselves accountable...
Isn't that what HLA is all about?"
Suck my fat cock you nigger...HLA is a great place for ALL"
Jump back in the Anonymous closet -- no one wants to hear your inbred ass. North Georgians have been known to be racist against African-Americans, or, as you like to call them...niggers...
Your in Georgia! Like, 70% of Atlanta is African-American. Your an idiot...you don't even know about where you live...
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Why so quick to discover who you believe I am yet such a coward about it yourself. The truth of the matter is youre still wrong. Devin and I are good friends and we do go to school together, however we did not know each other while at HLA. We met each other later on. However given the fact of the pure criminality of his stay while there and his desire not to do much on here, I have used elements of his story. He gave his permission so I could remain as anonymous as possible.
Keep fishing though.
Oh and even if you did guess correctly, what are you going to do with it? Nothing. All of your evidence is circumstancial so like I said keep trying.
In the mean time would you like to hear more of Devins story?
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nobody answered dan still.
this is pathetic.
way to go off topic.
why do all the pro hla people never hgave anything to say except for nigger this or nigger that.
its pretty ridiculous that is their answer to everything.
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But I thought that Devin lived in Florida and you lived on the west coast. How can you be going to school together?
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On 2005-12-21 18:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But I thought that Devin lived in Florida and you lived on the west coast. How can you be going to school together?"
Please offer up the post in which I stated I lived on the west coast.
Dumbass.
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You posted it many months ago on the Amazing Forums board that you lived on the west coast. Were you lying then? Or are you lying now? It is also clear that you live in the Mountain or Pacific time zone due to the times you post.
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Am I now? Either provide the post or shut up.
As I said all the evidence you have concerning anything is beyond circumstancial.
You'd be so suprised to learn the truth I think.
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Not surprised at all, since I already know the truth.
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You claim to do so much IP searching and finding other's identities. What makes you think others haven't already figured out who you are? Poor Mr. Bruce. Delusional to the end.
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Then run the IP and end the debate. Devin did post on here, so do a search off that or his myspace page. I have nothing to fear from the results because I know I'm right.
Whats more its obvious you dont know the truth, obviously because your wrong, but on top of that your guessing as to other things. You dont even know what time zone I live in let alone what state.
So you'll run the IP find out your wrong, never mention it again out of embarressment and then we can get back to bringing up the real issues concerning HLA and you trying to divert the topic out of fear.
Speaking of which your so big on peoples identities, yet yourself remain in the shadows and wont even pick a user name? Why the doublestandard?
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Let's end this right here. Where do you live Mr. Bruce? So we don't get off track of the real issues that you want to discuss, whatever they may be. You don't like people lurking in the shadows, so step out of yours.
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I fail to see the importance of such an issue. What bearing does where I live now have on my experiences and the facts concerning HLA?
Answer me that and why you yourself stay in the shadows and I'll answer your question.
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Just saw the meaning of FORNITS....For Oppositional Rejects Needing Intense Treatment Soon! Right on!
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I will start. I live in North Carolina. Where do you live? It is a real simple question. What state do you live in? I live in North Carolina.
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Yet you didnt answer the other question.
Why do you care?
No one cares where you are or who you are.
So why do you caer where we are and who we are?
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Robert...looking at schools... and just read some of your comments about HLA....how about some real facts...you claim to be such an expert on HLA...how long were you actually there? Are we talking weeks, or years? (I suspect only weeks...)and how long ago were you there? Your maturity level appears to be really lacking... I checked some of the things that you claim like their licensure and what you claim to be fact is just not true. They indeed have an excellent record of success. If what you say is true I don't think they would have lasted 11 years and grown like they have. You seem to be a pretty mixed up kid...sincerely hope someday you can grow past all of this and move on with your life.
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On 2005-12-22 13:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
They indeed have an excellent record of success.
Really??? Can you substantiate this?
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OK then, can YOU substantiate any of that or is it just another meaningless claim?
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On 2005-12-22 13:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK then, can YOU substantiate any of that or is it just another meaningless claim?"
Id bet it's another meaningless claim, these people need to get real here and stop crying.
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On 2005-12-22 13:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert...looking at schools... and just read some of your comments about HLA....how about some real facts...you claim to be such an expert on HLA...how long were you actually there? Are we talking weeks, or years? (I suspect only weeks...)and how long ago were you there? Your maturity level appears to be really lacking... I checked some of the things that you claim like their licensure and what you claim to be fact is just not true. They indeed have an excellent record of success. If what you say is true I don't think they would have lasted 11 years and grown like they have. You seem to be a pretty mixed up kid...sincerely hope someday you can grow past all of this and move on with your life."
I was there long enough to become an expert on HLA. Now since you went ahead and checked the license issue what can you tell us?
Please go into detail. Who did you speak with at ORS? How is HLA legally operating as both a Traditional and Theraputic Boarding school?
Please explain since you claim to have looked into it.
As for me personally? What am I "mixed up" about? I seem preety okay to most people. I mean here I am happily married, in school about to graduate, running a successfull business. About to purchase my own home? What were you doing at my age?
Then again most HLA staffers were never above throwing out random disorders and claims about patients without ever having a real basis . So your comments really dont suprise me.
So you let us know, how is HLA licensed as both, and what is the basis for the claim "they have an excellent record of success. Success with what brainwashing kids? Conning parents out of money? Abuse? I'd agree to all those things.
Oh and as for your last comment, the third reich lasted a couple years as well. Just because something sticks around for awhile does not mean its a good thing.
Also what is the basis for your claim I was only there a few weeks?
Now lets see how many questions you evade.
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Because you diss others because they won't give out details about themselves but yet won't reveal anything about yourself. what are you afraid of Robert Bruce?
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Getting frustrated Short Bus?
Not your usual angst.
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You are talking to several different individuals Mr. Bruce. Now answer the question put forth to you. What state do you live in? I have told you, now tell us. Or, are you too afraid of the boogeyman.
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On 2005-12-22 13:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Because you diss others because they won't give out details about themselves but yet won't reveal anything about yourself. what are you afraid of Robert Bruce? "
The only detail I have ever asked from anyone is what capacity they served or currently serve at HLA.
This is only to give people or deny them credibility. Hence someone like Mrs. Gray has no credibility as she had nothing to do with the school, whereas someone like a former student or counsoler would.
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On 2005-12-22 13:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You are talking to several different individuals Mr. Bruce. Now answer the question put forth to you. What state do you live in? I have told you, now tell us. Or, are you too afraid of the boogeyman."
Not at all. I will answer your question when you fully answer mine. Or are you afraid of the boogeyman?
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Bruce, your arguing tactics are getting old, stop avoiding simple questions by asking 5 more as a response, cocksucker
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Oh you people make it way to easy.
This the staff of HLA, the ones who claim they can teach children how to behave and handle their problems.
It seems several of you have serious anger issues.
You people do realize there is a book on the way concerning the atrocities of HLA among other schools. Please give us more examples to put in there of how HLA deals with former students who tell the truth.
I will tell who I am and where I am when someone explains to me why it matters.
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im still waiting for you with the big balls to tell me what i did while i was there that i have to be embaressed of.
im calling you out still.
that place fucks kids up worse than it helps them.
the only kids that get helped end up sounding brain washed.
dont tell anyone that went through it they are wrong, you werent fucking them.
end of story.
dan pg 26
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On 2005-12-22 13:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
They indeed have an excellent record of success.
Can ANYone substantiate this claim????? Anyone at all????
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Come on puppets we're waiting.
While your at it, pick some usernames.
Maybe just names like "puppet" "lapdog" and "stooge" would help.
Makes it easier.
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On 2005-12-22 13:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"im still waiting for you with the big balls to tell me what i did while i was there that i have to be embaressed of.
im calling you out still.
that place fucks kids up worse than it helps them.
the only kids that get helped end up sounding brain washed.
dont tell anyone that went through it they are wrong, you werent fucking them.
end of story.
dan pg 26"
As a matter of fact I was "fucking them" what a retard this Dan faggot is
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Come on!! There's enough of you reading this. Anyone?? You guys are quick to respond to the bullshit posts, but somehow you never get around to actually ANSWERING QUESTIONS.. Why is that??
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On 2005-12-22 13:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Come on!! There's enough of you reading this. Anyone?? You guys are quick to respond to the bullshit posts, but somehow you never get around to actually ANSWERING QUESTIONS.. Why is that??"
Because HLA has no need to defend itself, unlike you wack nuts
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Give them some time, they're in a confrence call with their owner the Buch. He's telling them what to think about all this.
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More dodging. I didn't say they needed to defend themselves...I asked you to back up what was written. Pretty simple and it says a lot that you can't do that.
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On 2005-12-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 13:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Come on!! There's enough of you reading this. Anyone?? You guys are quick to respond to the bullshit posts, but somehow you never get around to actually ANSWERING QUESTIONS.. Why is that??"
Because HLA has no need to defend itself, unlike you wack nuts"
Anything you say Short Bus, what in your mind do we have to defend ourselves on?
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Funny how they all run away when you call them on their shit. Although I'm sure you'll be met with a bunch more of "you're gay, word, who are you, HLA rocks" etc. etc.
Same shit, different day.
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You are gay, HLA rocks!!
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HAHAH.
Typical, they cant stand answering the questions that tell the truth about their little child abusing club.
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If you are a weak person, which Bruce here exemplifies, then no, HLA is not the place for you..
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On 2005-12-22 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you are a weak person, which Bruce here exemplifies, then no, HLA is not the place for you.."
Oh the droning of the delusional ones. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Shit, if you weren't such a weak person in the first place maybe you wouldn't feel like I want you to be abused in order to 'grow'.
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Really? So its for strong people who cant handle their problems then?
What about the weak people who you are refering to who dont have problems that need HLA's style of treatment? Or lack there of I should say.
And what about people who are strong enough to withstand the abuse and brainwashing attempts?
What is it you think Im to weak to handle exactly?
Afterall I beat all of you didnt I ?
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Who claimed you wanted any of us to "grow" I personally think its set up to rob people blind and to give sadist a semi legal venue.
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On 2005-12-22 14:48:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Who claimed you wanted any of us to "grow" I personally think its set up to rob people blind and to give sadist a semi legal venue. "
Make some sense , please..
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Dont blame me because youre to stupid to understand a simple statement.
That and of course your tendency to hate the truth.
Neither one of course being my fault or my concern.
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Bruce, go have a cocktail or seven..Jeez, relax pussy man
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Was Bruce the one who was constantly getting butt-fucked at HLA?
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On 2005-12-22 15:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Was Bruce the one who was constantly getting butt-fucked at HLA? "
You say that as if its supposed to make Bruce look bad when in all reality it makes HLA look like the sadistic place we've all heard and read that it is. Was this a common occurence at HLA? If I were a parent of a kid there I sure would want to know about that.
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Its sarcasm you fucking idiot
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Hence why we are here, to highlight all of the atrocities committed by HLA.
I will admit though when I started this I had no idea how much help I would recieve from the staff. Thanks guys, really.
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Duh!! Thanks. That's what I was hoping for. Didn't believe it but wanted you to admit that it was false. Dodge, perry, spin..wheeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Think I'll try and ask again, not like I really expect a legit answer from you but here goes...
How exactly does HLA 'help' anyone? Be precise please.
What are the reports, stats, or peer reviewed studies that support your claim that HLA saves people?
If the only people that HLA 'helps' are the strong ones, why would they need it in the first place if they were so strong?
Why would someone considered 'weak' not be a good candidate for HLA?
I'm anxiously awaiting your witty reply. :lol:
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Bruce, pour a nice frosty one...
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Weak people belong in locked facilities..HLA is not, its a great boarding school that helps kids get on the right track, as long as they are willing to be open-minded..The results speak for themselves, the weak ones cry for themselves like you and RoberBruce. GET OVER HLA, Get a life
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On 2005-12-22 15:12:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Hence why we are here, to highlight all of the atrocities committed by HLA.
I will admit though when I started this I had no idea how much help I would recieve from the staff. Thanks guys, really. "
Your welcome fuck face...
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Oh man you hit below the belt this time.
Who insults a man by telling him to go have a beer.
Thats just wrong.
Now that is saracasm idiot, your earlier comment was not and Im afraid its to late for you to take your comment back as apparently that sort of thing does in fact go on at HLA. Thanks for being honest about it.
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On 2005-12-22 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Weak people belong in locked facilities.
Huh??? You're not really serious are you?
.HLA is not, its a great boarding school that helps kids get on the right track,The results speak for themselves.
No, they do not speak for themselves. Again, any actual DATA to back up this claim? Any peer reviewed studies? Hell, any studies at all?
as long as they are willing to be open-minded.
Translation: as long as they're willing to swig long and hard from the Kool Aid and reject any semblance to critical thought.
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What state do you live in? I live in North Carolina.
yeh, greenville isn't it, aften?
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Im embarrassed that I went to HLA after hearing all you cry babies bitch and moan
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So, in other words, you have no data, no studies, no evidence of any kind really to back up what you say.
Thanks for playing! :lol:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Weak people belong in locked facilities..HLA is not,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Really? Can kids leave anytime they like? Can they leave the campus unattended? Could they go home for the weekend? You dont have to have a fence to be a lock down facility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its a great boarding school that helps kids get on the right track,<<<<<<<<<<
Its a boarding school, but what kind? A question that has still not been answered. Also what if the kids were never on the wrong track to begin with? Or what if they are on the wrong track but while there make their own determinination to get back on the right one? How do the HLA staffers determine who needs to be on what track and what should be done to place the child there?
>>>>>>>>>>as long as they are willing to be open-minded..<<<<<<<<<<<
Be open minded about what exactly? That every child is bad, and does terrible things? That telling the truth is actually manipulating? That questionable tactics and questionable motives are not to be discussed..ever? That no matter what the facts are HLA is always right? That a substandard living condition and an abusive enviornment should be accepted without question iregardless of overwhelmingly high prices? That anyone who speaks out against HLA is angry and has issues? That it is unacceptable for a child to ever lie about anything..ever, however adults can do it so long as it serves their interest (licensure issues again)?
Are these the things we should have been open minded about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>The results speak for themselves,<<<<<<<<<
Do they? Please elaborate further on this. Provide data to back up your claim.
>>>>>>>> the weak ones cry for themselves like you and RoberBruce. <<<<<<<<<<<<
Interestingly enough the only ones crying here are you puppets and your owner the Buch. It is you who is trying to silence us not the other way around. As far as we are concerned you can talk all you want, just be prepared to be held accountable for your actions, and know that we will counter every lie you tell. But you cant handle that instead you cry and cry,
"waaaahhhh Who is that doodoo head Bruce. How can we make him stop saying mean things about us (sniff sniff)"
>>>>>>> GET OVER HLA<<<<<<<<
Get over it? Well according to you lap dogs we have nothing to get over, cause it was a great place right? Explain the contridiction.
>>>>>>>Get a life<<<<<<<<
Theres that catch phrase again, since you have no idea who many of us are let alone what our lives our like save what we allow you to know, what is the point of this comment?
Let me know stooges.
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On 2005-12-22 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Im embarrassed that I went to HLA after hearing all you cry babies bitch and moan"
What you were proud of it before?
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Im embarrassed that I went to HLA after hearing all you cry babies bitch and moan>>>
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 290#144589 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8631&forum=41&start=290#144589)
Is this... Kutch? Why the bag, big strong marine boy? When do you ship? Like Jan 3 or something. Counting the days til the forum will be free of your favorite words, "bitch and moan" and "pussy".
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Why the bag he asks???? Ask yourself the same question you fucking dumb ass...Seriously, you people make NO SENSE
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On 2005-12-22 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
" Im embarrassed that I went to HLA
Don't worry, we understand. :lol:
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Bruce? Where are you?? Wacking off I suppose..
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On 2005-12-22 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bruce? Where are you?? Wacking off I suppose.."
Yes, I can confirm this is true
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On 2005-12-22 17:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bruce? Where are you?? Wacking off I suppose.."
Yes, I can confirm this is true"
You're NASTY. You like to watch it.
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yea yea yea, all the time....I love to watch it...yea...
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Mr. Bruce do you seriously think that Aften is the only person on the Fornits board in North Carolina? There are others, and I also live in North Carolina, but nowhere near Aften. Now answer the question put forth to you, if you state that it was a lie that you lived on the west coast, where is it that you do live so we can know the truth?
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To BOTH of you. Does it really matter where each of you lives? How 'bout getting back to the more important issues that people were attempting to discuss?
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On 2005-12-22 17:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To BOTH of you. Does it really matter where each of you lives? How 'bout getting back to the more important issues that people were attempting to discuss?"
How bout you shut the fuck up..
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On 2005-12-22 17:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yea yea yea, all the time....I love to watch it...yea..."
You like watching guys masturbate?
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sure if thats what you say, why not.. :lol:
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On 2005-12-22 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mr. Bruce do you seriously think that Aften is the only person on the Fornits board in North Carolina? There are others, and I also live in North Carolina, but nowhere near Aften. Now answer the question put forth to you, if you state that it was a lie that you lived on the west coast, where is it that you do live so we can know the truth?"
And are you so naive to think only one person on the Formits board is anti-HLA? I could care less where you are or where Aften is. I called Aften out because she wanted to hide behind a new screen name and then lied about it. I was not the one who made the comment stating that Aften lived in NC. I told you before I just dont care where or who any of you are. All I did ask was in what capicity everyone served at HLA and that people have user names to cut down on confusion. I'm sure you can understand that as you yourself were just confused even with me having a user name.
Now answer the question put forth to you. Explain why it matters to you who I am or where I live.
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It matters, Mr. Bruce, because you love to trash others for hiding when you yourself are the most secretive person on here. YOU, Mr. Bruce, lurk in the shadows. I stated where I lived as an invitation for you to come out of the shadows. That is my reason for asking you. Now answer the question put before YOU, before I call you a coward like you do so many others.
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FUCK! Does it really matter??? Why can't YOU people answer any of the questions that have been asked of YOU????????? AGain, you're real quick to latch onto the easy/troll kind of shit, but anyone ask you a REAL question and you just completely fucking IGNORE it! Really says a lot about you're faith in your beloved program. Shit, you can't even have any kind of a normal debate or discussion about it. :roll: :roll:
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What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?
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On 2005-12-22 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"FUCK! Does it really matter??? Why can't YOU people answer any of the questions that have been asked of YOU????????? AGain, you're real quick to latch onto the easy/troll kind of shit, but anyone ask you a REAL question and you just completely fucking IGNORE it! Really says a lot about you're faith in your beloved program. Shit, you can't even have any kind of a normal debate or discussion about it. :cry2:
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On 2005-12-22 19:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?"
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 200#157868 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12693&forum=41&start=200#157868)
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On 2005-12-22 19:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?"
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#146041 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=0#146041)
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On 2005-12-22 19:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It matters, Mr. Bruce, because you love to trash others for hiding when you yourself are the most secretive person on here. YOU, Mr. Bruce, lurk in the shadows. I stated where I lived as an invitation for you to come out of the shadows. That is my reason for asking you. Now answer the question put before YOU, before I call you a coward like you do so many others."
I have "trashed" others for lying, not for hiding their identity. I dont know how to make it anymore clear to you that I simply dont care who you are. However if you would like to offer a post in which as you claim I trashed someone else for hiding be my guest. To save you the trouble though, you wont find one.
As I stated before (Jesus you people work at a school and you still cant get this) I do not give a shit who you are or where you live. I have asked that people reveal only why or what they did at HLA, and that they pick a user name. Nothing else.
My giving Bullfrog and Aften a hard time have to do with the fact that they lied and tried to hide their identity because they were afraid to answer questions put to them regarding claims they had made.
Now since your claims about me trashing others are false, you still have not provided a real reason for me to reveal my identity.
Once you do that I'll consider it, until then I see no reason to. Why dont you just admit it though, you want my name so Joe and Marty can fire off their cease and desist letter. However since I feel I am making a real contribution here I see no reason to stop.
Oh and go ahead and call me a coward. If I ever cared in the slightest what you sadist thought I would have succumbed to the brain washing while there. The truth is I didnt then, and I dont now, so have at it.
However bear in mind that you want to call me a coward because I wont tell you my name, since it has nothing to do with conversation.
What do we call you for being afraid to answer the questions put to you regarding the truth about the child abusing institution you so quickly defend?
Get back to me on that skipper.
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On 2005-12-22 19:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"FUCK! Does it really matter??? Why can't YOU people answer any of the questions that have been asked of YOU????????? AGain, you're real quick to latch onto the easy/troll kind of shit, but anyone ask you a REAL question and you just completely fucking IGNORE it! Really says a lot about you're faith in your beloved program. Shit, you can't even have any kind of a normal debate or discussion about it. :cry2: "
Dont you have a corpse to molest, or a young man to watch masturbate?
By the way, you claimed you had a B.A. from Miami, what are you doing working a night job where you dont do any work?
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On 2005-12-22 19:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?"
Don't get angry skipper or there will be a ZAP.
Just go to the links he provided. Im sure you can reason out some kind of answer once your owner tells what to think.
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On 2005-12-22 19:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?"
Let's try this again.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 200#157868 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12693&forum=41&start=200#157868)
How exactly does HLA 'help' anyone? Be precise please.
What are the reports, stats, or peer reviewed studies that support your claim that HLA saves people?
If the only people that HLA 'helps' are the strong ones, why would they need it in the first place if they were so strong?
Why would someone considered 'weak' not be a good candidate for HLA?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#146041 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=0#146041)
On 2005-11-08 08:34:00, Kcmoney05 wrote:
"Hey Kees Devente this is Kevin Conley fromPG 70 and your full of shit man this program HLA is a meesed up abusive program why dont you tell people the truth about HLA like
1. Restrictions
2. Monitered Communication
3. Locked at night
4. Special Interventions
5. Special Reels
6. No contact with outside people (family only)
7. PT during class
8. Fall-out
9. All the cutters
10. The loss of confiditiality with counselers
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While we're on the subject, what are Special Interventions and Special Reels?
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"
On 2005-12-22 19:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What question do you want answered? There are so many goddamn questions on here it is hard to keep up which one is asked by who and to whom. Which question is not being answered?"
Let's try this again.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 200#157868 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12693&forum=41&start=200#157868)
How exactly does HLA 'help' anyone? Be precise please.
What are the reports, stats, or peer reviewed studies that support your claim that HLA saves people?
If the only people that HLA 'helps' are the strong ones, why would they need it in the first place if they were so strong?
Why would someone considered 'weak' not be a good candidate for HLA?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#146041 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=0#146041)
On 2005-11-08 08:34:00, Kcmoney05 wrote:
"Hey Kees Devente this is Kevin Conley fromPG 70 and your full of shit man this program HLA is a meesed up abusive program why dont you tell people the truth about HLA like
1. Restrictions
2. Monitered Communication
3. Locked at night
4. Special Interventions
5. Special Reels
6. No contact with outside people (family only)
7. PT during class
8. Fall-out
9. All the cutters
10. The loss of confiditiality with counselers
Anyone?
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::bump:: :grin:
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1. Restrictions
Yes there are restrictions at HLA. Negative actions equal negative consequences.
2. Monitered Communication
Yes, communication is monitored. Students can say anything they want as long as it is the truth and they are respectful.
3. Locked at night
Yes. The doors are locked at night. Aren't yours?
4. Special Interventions
Yes. There are special interventions. This is for when students are particularly out of line, such as being threatening or intimidating. Safety is of the utmost importance to HLA and they will not tolerate students who take safety away from campus.
5. Special Reels
Yes. There are special group sessions to get to the bottom of any potential act that take safety away from campu. Again, safety is of the utmost importance and if special groups are needed outside of the scheduled groups, HLA will conduct them.
6. No contact with outside people (family only)
Communication is limited to family only for the first eight months because HLA wants the students to focus on rebuilding the family relationship. HLA wants as few distractions as possible while this relationship is being reestablished. After eight months new communication is added. By the end of the program students are allowed to go home on a monthly basis and go out with frieds without adult supervision.
7. PT during class
Yes. If students are misbehaving during class, they may have to go into the hall to do some exercise as a consequence. Push ups never killed anyone.
8. Fall-out
Yes. Students are expected to report anything that makes the campus unsafe to the staff. Again, safety is of the utmost importance to HLA.
9. All the cutters
Yes. HLA has students that have a problem with cutting. Unfortunately, cutting has become a growing problem with adolescents over the past several years. HLA does an excellent job in working with these students and gone to great lengths to further their expertice in working with this difficult problem. The students that struggled with cutting when you were here, KC, are actually doing wonderfully well at this time.
10. The loss of confiditiality with counselers
Not sure what you mean on this one. Yes the counselors share pertinent information with each other if it is in the best interest of the child. Counselors are sensitive to maintaining confidentiality.
I have now answered all of these points. I will not debate them further as I assume most of my answers will now be twisted. I am not here to argue with any of you. I have stated my position on these items as requested. I hope this helps.
209
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There is limited access to a public phone because when phones have been available to the students the first place they call is to their boyfriends or girlfriends to come help them run away. I know this for a fact because it happened several times in the past when I was there. There are restrictions on phone use because of issues like these.
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On 2005-12-23 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"1. Restrictions
Yes there are restrictions at HLA. Negative actions equal negative consequences.
What would be some examples of these restrictions?
2. Monitered Communication
Yes, communication is monitored. Students can say anything they want as long as it is the truth and they are respectful.
yeah, had the same thing at the program I was in. Sure you can say anything you want, as long as it doesn't fly in the face of their 'reality'. I tried many, many times to tell what was going on in there only to have family members told that I was lying and manipulative.
3. Locked at night
Yes. The doors are locked at night. Aren't yours?
Are the kids locked in?
4. Special Interventions
Yes. There are special interventions. This is for when students are particularly out of line, such as being threatening or intimidating. Safety is of the utmost importance to HLA and they will not tolerate students who take safety away from campus.
What would be some examples of special interventions?
5. Special Reels
Yes. There are special group sessions to get to the bottom of any potential act that take safety away from campu. Again, safety is of the utmost importance and if special groups are needed outside of the scheduled groups, HLA will conduct them.
Do these group sessions employ confrontational methods with the kids?
6. No contact with outside people (family only)
Communication is limited to family only for the first eight months because HLA wants the students to focus on rebuilding the family relationship. HLA wants as few distractions as possible while this relationship is being reestablished. After eight months new communication is added. By the end of the program students are allowed to go home on a monthly basis and go out with frieds without adult supervision.
Its called isolation. A common tactic used in Thought Reform. See the BITE model http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html#two (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html#two)
II. Information Control
1. Use of deception
a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying
2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don?t have time to think
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
7. PT during class
Yes. If students are misbehaving during class, they may have to go into the hall to do some exercise as a consequence. Push ups never killed anyone.
How long would these PT sessions last?
8. Fall-out
Yes. Students are expected to report anything that makes the campus unsafe to the staff. Again, safety is of the utmost importance to HLA.
Again, refer to the BITE model
4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
9. All the cutters
Yes. HLA has students that have a problem with cutting. Unfortunately, cutting has become a growing problem with adolescents over the past several years. HLA does an excellent job in working with these students and gone to great lengths to further their expertice in working with this difficult problem. The students that struggled with cutting when you were here, KC, are actually doing wonderfully well at this time.
Did these kids cut before coming into HLA?
10. The loss of confiditiality with counselers
Not sure what you mean on this one. Yes the counselors share pertinent information with each other if it is in the best interest of the child. Counselors are sensitive to maintaining confidentiality.
I think they're referring to this type stuff...
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
I have now answered all of these points. I will not debate them further as I assume most of my answers will now be twisted. I am not here to argue with any of you. I have stated my position on these items as requested. I hope this helps.
"
It helps somewhat but I still have many more questions as you can see. Thanks for at least responding, its most appreciated.
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"Are the kids locked in?"
No. Any kid can leave anytime they want. The police will be called, but HLA will not physically detain any student that wants to leave campus.
"What would be some examples of special interventions?"
A lot of hiking and a lot of writing. The length could be anywhere from three to seven days. It is not fun, and is not meant to be. It is a consequence, but it is not in any way abusive or extreme.
"Do these group sessions employ confrontational methods with the kids?"
Yes. But not in terms of in your face yelling or name calling. Do things ever get loud? Yes.
"Its called isolation. A common tactic used in Thought Reform. See the BITE model"
This is far from what HLA does. HLA truly restricts the communications for the reasons I listed in the previous post.
How long would these PT sessions last?
At the shortest is would be doing 10 push ups and the coming back to class. At the longest they may do exercise for the entire class period (45 minutes). Typical is probably five to ten minutes.
"Did these kids cut before coming into HLA?"
Yes.
"I think they're referring to this type stuff...
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution "
Fall out is really used to find out stuff that has hapened on campus that takes away safety so that safety can be restored. No other reason. You are taling about kids telling disclosures when they tell their life story. The only time this is shared is when it is the best interest of the child to do so. Again, counselors are very sensitive to the information that the kids give them. Kids telling their disclosures is a very delicate matter that the counselors take very seriously.
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At least one of you has the balls (Aften) to even try and respond.
One thing I did want to address though even though he said he would not debate things further.
Why can counsolers share information with parents, bosses, and other counsolers, but students cannot share information with students.
I dont think they should Im just curious about the double standard.
Are students ever on restriction indefinitly? What if they didnt committe the act and are being forced to acknowledge guilt?
Are all fall outs for saftey reason?
What if I told on a student for kissing a girl? Is this a saftey concern?
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I will gladly answer these because I see them as legitimate questions and not a debate over rediculous questions which so often pops up on this site. This is actually refreshing:
"Why can counsolers share information with parents, bosses, and other counsolers, but students cannot share information with students."
If a student wants to share information about themselves with another student, then that is fine. It is absolutely their right. They cannot share about other students because other students are not responsible for their therapy. The staff, sometimes, will share information with each other because they are trying to determine the best way to help the child. There is no other reason than that.
"Are students ever on restriction indefinitly? What if they didnt committe the act and are being forced to acknowledge guilt?"
No. Though it has not always been this way. Now at the school, restrictions are 3,4,5,or7 days depending on the severity of the rule that was broken. If students continue to break rules their restriction may be extended. If it gets to too many days the student would likely go to Ridge Creek. In the case of whether or not they committed the act, I am sure there have been times in the last 10 years when a student was put on for something they did not do. Counselors sometimes make mistakes. I do know that counselors try very hard to not make that mistake because it breaks trust when that happens. I don't think the students ever truly realize how much energy goes into making sure a student is acctually deserving of the restriction that they receive. The flip side of this is that there are plenty of times a student will get away with something and not get put on restriction. I imagine it evens out in the end.
"Are all fall outs for saftey reason? "
Yes.
"What if I told on a student for kissing a girl? Is this a saftey concern?"
Yes, for a couple of reasons. First that means the students are probably not focused on what they need to be focused on if they are in a relationship. Two, many girls that come to HLA have some pretty heaving issues surrounding intimate relationships, anything from being co-dependent to dealing with rape issues. When a kid is becoming intimately involved with another student it can push some big issues for the kids and keep them from their therapeutic work. I understand the problem the kids have with this rule. I have also been told by many kids that one of the nice things about HLA was not having that pressure on them the way they have it at their other schools.
I hope this helps. Again, I will not get into a rediculous debate. If you want to continue to ask legitimate questions, I will answer them. I feel there is nothing to hide. I will also not get into circular arguments or name calling.
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well, here's a legitimate question.
who are you?
by what authority are you speaking for HLA?
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"well, here's a legitimate question.
who are you?
by what authority are you speaking for HLA? "
Based on the way people that do reveal their names get treated on this sight, I choose not to reveal who I am. I will say that I would not waste my time, nor have the in depth responses that I have if I did not, in fact, know what I am talking about.
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On 2005-12-23 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I will gladly answer these because I see them as legitimate questions and not a debate over rediculous questions which so often pops up on this site. This is actually refreshing:
"Why can counsolers share information with parents, bosses, and other counsolers, but students cannot share information with students."
If a student wants to share information about themselves with another student, then that is fine. It is absolutely their right. They cannot share about other students because other students are not responsible for their therapy. The staff, sometimes, will share information with each other because they are trying to determine the best way to help the child. There is no other reason than that.
"Are students ever on restriction indefinitly? What if they didnt committe the act and are being forced to acknowledge guilt?"
No. Though it has not always been this way. Now at the school, restrictions are 3,4,5,or7 days depending on the severity of the rule that was broken. If students continue to break rules their restriction may be extended. If it gets to too many days the student would likely go to Ridge Creek. In the case of whether or not they committed the act, I am sure there have been times in the last 10 years when a student was put on for something they did not do. Counselors sometimes make mistakes. I do know that counselors try very hard to not make that mistake because it breaks trust when that happens. I don't think the students ever truly realize how much energy goes into making sure a student is acctually deserving of the restriction that they receive. The flip side of this is that there are plenty of times a student will get away with something and not get put on restriction. I imagine it evens out in the end.
"Are all fall outs for saftey reason? "
Yes.
"What if I told on a student for kissing a girl? Is this a saftey concern?"
Yes, for a couple of reasons. First that means the students are probably not focused on what they need to be focused on if they are in a relationship. Two, many girls that come to HLA have some pretty heaving issues surrounding intimate relationships, anything from being co-dependent to dealing with rape issues. When a kid is becoming intimately involved with another student it can push some big issues for the kids and keep them from their therapeutic work. I understand the problem the kids have with this rule. I have also been told by many kids that one of the nice things about HLA was not having that pressure on them the way they have it at their other schools.
I hope this helps. Again, I will not get into a rediculous debate. If you want to continue to ask legitimate questions, I will answer them. I feel there is nothing to hide. I will also not get into circular arguments or name calling."
I really must thank you. If more HLA staffers showed the manners and courtesy that youve shown this would have been a much more conducive debate. I truly hope you'll stick around.
I can also accept your reasonable answers, as they are all I have ever truly sought from HLA.
I hope you will entertain more questions.
One that's been discussed at great length is the license issue. Is HLA a traditional boarding school or a theraputic one?
Also why are students kept from communicating unrestricted with their parents? I can understand limiting who they speak with, but not what they say. I myself was often made to rewrite letters if they contained passages such as "this place sucks" or simply "I dont like it here".
As much as I understand your preference for not revealing your name or position. Would you be willing to choose a user name? It would make things easier with communicating.
Again I thank you for your respectful nature and hope that we can continue the civil nature of the conversation.
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FYI... I am not ignoring these questions. I have been doing family stuff tonight, getting ready for Christmas and all. I will log back on tomorrow and address these questions.
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Good enough. Have a happy christmas, and please consider what I said about the user name. It really does cut down on confusion.
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RB, don't miss the 'refreshing' holiday greeting from our anon wizard of oz, question answerer.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 360#158725 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=360#158725)
But we should forgive him, cause according to Suzanne, it's not "as rude as some former students".
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 360#158758 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=360#158758)
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Well you have to admit they say some pretty nasty shit to people (the former students)
Why wouldn't they expect people to get pissed?
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Do you really want to compare who's been ruder?
I dont think its an argument you want to get into.
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The posts speak for themselves. Most posts to Suzanne Gray are quite uglier than hers to others. Even going so far as to tell her she deserves to be sick and choke on her own vomit? That she is an ugly fat bullfrog? That she is a child abuser and cheated on her husband and now is jealous of his new wife? Do any of you even know her?
When did she ever say anything like that to any of you?
I repeat, the posts speak for themselves. All you have to do is read them.
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COMMENTS TO "GEORGIE"
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 230#157976 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=230#157976)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 230#157979 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=230#157979)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 100#158141 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12700&forum=41&start=100#158141)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 270#158301 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=270#158301)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 250#158281 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=250#158281)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 190#157592 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=190#157592)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 200#157600 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=200#157600)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 210#157757 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=210#157757)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 210#157778 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=210#157778)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 270#158297 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=270#158297)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 270#158307 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=270#158307)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 280#158309 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=280#158309)
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With the exception of one post where she states who she is, the other posts are not Suzanne Gray's posts. Why don't you do the famous IP trace and verify my statement.
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How would you know?
In fact several of them are hers, and the fact remains Susie has called us drug addicts and liars long before anyone called her anything.
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Oh but I do agree with you, the post speak for themselves. Which is why we would win that argument.
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Robert this is SHH and I KNOW which posts are mine and which arent. I have never called you a drug addict. I have called you a liar when I knew in fact you were lying about some things. But those posts that are hateful towards George are NOT mine. Why don't you do your famous IP search and find out the truth instead of assuming shit that isn't true. If you actually did an IP search you would know most of those are not mine. I think of that whole thread that the person posted below, only 2 of them are me. The ones calling George names and saying nasty stuff are not me and you should know that if you had any sense. The only thing I said to George was that he had no clue about Bill Gray's life and was saying shit that wasnt true and was wrong to accuse him of embezzlement. I stand by those statements. But the other comments about gay stuff and the other mean stuff was not me. Quit accusing me of stuff I haven't done.
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The only 2 that were me were the ones telling George about Bill's wife being certified to be a dental hygienist and the one about telling him Bill Gray does not post on Fornits board and would not be posting on the HLA survivors myspace board. He made a comment on that one where he wondered if Bill would follow him onto that website too. And I told him no since he doesn't post here. those are the only two of all those links that were me. You should know after all these months that I don't type nasty shit like that. I don't know who it is, but I know it's definately not me.
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Suzanne,
If you don't want to be mistaken, provided that is the case, then use your login.
For the moment... experience the gut-wrenching frustration of
FALL OUT
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On 2005-12-26 12:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert this is SHH and I KNOW which posts are mine and which arent. I have never called you a drug addict. I have called you a liar when I knew in fact you were lying about some things. But those posts that are hateful towards George are NOT mine. Why don't you do your famous IP search and find out the truth instead of assuming shit that isn't true. If you actually did an IP search you would know most of those are not mine. I think of that whole thread that the person posted below, only 2 of them are me. The ones calling George names and saying nasty stuff are not me and you should know that if you had any sense. The only thing I said to George was that he had no clue about Bill Gray's life and was saying shit that wasnt true and was wrong to accuse him of embezzlement. I stand by those statements. But the other comments about gay stuff and the other mean stuff was not me. Quit accusing me of stuff I haven't done. "
Bullfrog no one cares stop whining. If you wish to discuss which things you believe I have lied about be my guest. I'll embarress you yet again. You set the tone for these discussions, dont cry about it now. We treat you retards with the same manner of respect you showed us both on here and at HLA. Youre just upset about it now because we can respond in kind and there's nothing you can do about it.
Now be a good frog and go answer the questions put to you.
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You posted it many months ago on the Amazing Forums board that you lived on the west coast. Were you lying then? Or are you lying now? It is also clear that you live in the Mountain or Pacific time zone due to the times you post.>>>
As usual, misrepresenting the truth.
Anon. posted 5/2/05 2:07 AM
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RB - How is Sunny Cali. these days? I miss being out there.
RobertBruce posted 5/3/05 2:38 AM
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According to the weather channel its nice right now.
ANON posted 5/4/05 6:00 PM
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My mistake. The last I heard you were going to school in the state of Washington.
RobertBruce posted 5/5/05 1:17 AM
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Since Washington is not the same state as California..... . Why dont you and Mrs. Grey keep trying though, youve got 48 more guesses, and around 2000 or so students to guess from.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#156215 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13068&forum=41&start=0#156215)
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What are you trying to say?
Are you even insinuating that an HLA staffer would misrepresent the truth?
How dare you.
You are obviously angry.
I dont want to talk about this anymore, HLA is acredited damn you!
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It appears Mr. Bruce does live on the west coast, according to those posting times
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Do I now? The poster claimed I had stated I lived on the west coast. I have not nor will I confirm or deny that I live on the west coast.
Your evidence is once again circumstancial at best.
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I hope you will entertain more questions.
One that's been discussed at great length is the license issue. Is HLA a traditional boarding school or a theraputic one?
Also why are students kept from communicating unrestricted with their parents? I can understand limiting who they speak with, but not what they say. I myself was often made to rewrite letters if they contained passages such as "this place sucks" or simply "I dont like it here".
As much as I understand your preference for not revealing your name or position. Would you be willing to choose a user name? It would make things easier with communicating.
Again I thank you for your respectful nature and hope that we can continue the civil nature of the conversation. "
Okay, Robert, I have given myself a user name. I am going to try to answer these two questions to the best of my ability, though I am not sure the answers will be suficient to you. I will take the easy one first.
Why are students limited on what they can say? I don't question what you were told when you were at HLA. That is not my place. I can only tell you what students are told now. Ironically, students are specifically told now that they CAN say that they don't like it here. What they are told they cannot do is be disrespectful or lie. For example, a student CAN say, "I am so pissed off at my counselor. He put me on restriction and I don't think he even cares about me." A student CANNOT say, "My fucking counselor is an asshole. He put on restrictions for bullshit and told me to piss off because he doesn't care what happens to me." Now, if a counselor actually said that to a student (which would be highly unlikely), the student has every right to go to an administrator and let them know what was going on and the administration would take care of it.
I hope this anwers your question on this.
The second question is a bit trickier. I have seen the debates rage on about this. Again, I will not get into a circular argument over this. I will let you know my perception from when I was there and let others take it however they wish.
The answer is that HLA is both traditional and therapeutic. Obviously, HLA is therapeutic. Noone could ever realistically claim that it is not. When HLA first sought out accreditation from the Souther Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) it sought to be accredited as a special needs school. When the SACS committee came visit HLA, THEY suggested that HLA change its application to that of a traditional school. They suggested this based on their observations. This is not something that HLA sought out. When this was suggested, HLA would have been crazy not to follow up on it. Being accredited as a traditional school would be a huge benefit to its students. It would mean that any credits they obtained would be able to transfer to any boarding school or college in the country without question. As you can imagine, this would be huge for the HLA students and would be a wonderful selling point for the school. I have never understood why people are upset with the school for taking this position. Perhaps it will help to know that it was at the suggestion of the SACS committee and not HLA seeking this out for themselves.
In terms of people considering HLA to be a RTC, I suppose I can see why people are upset because based on definitions given on this board it would seem to fall into that category (on paper). However, similar to the situation with SACS, when anyone who investigates HLA in terms of being an RTC comes to campus, they clearly see the difference between the two. There is no realistic comparison. If the state really wanted to regulate HLA, the more prudent thing to do would be to create a category between traditional school and RTC, because that is what HLA truly is. People who argue that point on this board are wasting their time. The reallity is that HLA is unique and the state is probably not going to spend the time and money developing a whole new set of criteria for a single school.
I hope this is of some benefit. These are the facts to the best of my knowledge based on my experiences while at HLA. I am sure that there will those who take what I have said that tear it up. That is fine. I am not going to get into a debate. They seem to only end up in name calling anyway, and I will not go there.
Take care.
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Thank you again for your courtesy, and for selecting a user name.
May I ask you before I get into your responses how long ago you left HLA?
As to your comments again I appreciate you being the only HLA staffer who is willing to answer questions.
For the first one however I will have to disagree with you. While I was at HLA we were told similar to what you stated that we in our communications with our parents could not lie or be abusive. Apparently there is a great deal of grey area within that criteria. For example the statement, "This is a bad place for me" was deemed a lie, and the statement "I have every right to be angry at you for putting me here" is deemed abusive. I believe the students there are set up to fail when it comes to communicating with their parents. Not only are they limited in what they can say but the parents are told to expect their child to lie about the situation. So if in the event the child is able to communicate how they really feel about HLA or what their experience really is the parents has already decided not to believe them on the advice of the childs counselor.
Although I can understand that a student may make up some outragous claim simply as a way of getting out of HLA, occasionaly they tell the truth as well. Every story has two sides but parents arent able to hear either one. I feel that perhaps a solution would be if the child is flat out lying and says that says...."Dear Mom this week I was gang raped and my counselor claimed it was theraputic." Now hopefully this is a lie, such a thing should not be allowed to be mailed out. However say a child says..."Dear Mom, in reals this week my counselors ganged up on me and bullied me the entire three hours trying to get me to cop guilt to something I didnt do." Now normally such a letter would not go out. Why not let it go out but with the counselors version of things along with it? That way the parent can get both versions and decide for themselves?
I just still feel if HLA has nothing to hide they would allow the child to communicate with the parents without fear of reprisal.
Now onto the next question. There has been a great deal of discussion regarding the accredidation mostly from the pro HLA people. We on the opposite side have never really questioned the issue. Our concern lies with how HLA represents itself on the state level. The evidence to date shows that HLA claims to be a traditional boarding school to ORS, yet advertises as a theraputic school to the rest of the world. I can accept that HLA is not truly either a theraputic or traditional, however why not be forthright about it with the state and at least follow the regs for a theraputic boarding school since it certianlly contains those elements?
Okay let me know about those, also I'd like to if you are still willing to discuss the rationing of food and the use of forced labor as a punishment.
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I will get to the other questions later...
But in regards to rationing of food and forced labor, I will respond.
Food Rationing- At one time there was such a thing as "restrictions meals". This consisted of cheese sandwiches and soup, with water to drink. This was discontinued some time ago, though I am not sure when. Now at HLA restrictions eat the same dinner as the rest of the students body with the exception of dessert. They eat in the lodge, prior to the time the rest of the student body eats. At lunch time there is absolutely no difference in those students on restrictions and those off of restrictions.
Forced Labor- Yes. Students do hard work while on restrictions. This is a double edged sword at times. I hear people complain that HLA is using kids to imporve their campus. I also hear complaints from students who have done mind numbing work such as moving a pile of rocks from one place to another and then back again. The later should never happen at HLA, though I will not make the argument that it has never happened. What restrictions routinely do at HLA is work that is meant to be productive. This may be clearing the woods of fallen limbs, or cutting up fallen trees with a chainsaw and then turning it into fire wood. It may be spreading mulch to help the landscape look better. The point is, their work is supposed to be something that the kids can look back on and take pride in. It is definitely not a money saving issue. HLA also employees a professional landscaping service that is on campus all the time. HLA really wants the kids to take pride in their work.
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"For the first one however I will have to disagree with you. While I was at HLA we were told similar to what you stated that we in our communications with our parents could not lie or be abusive. Apparently there is a great deal of grey area within that criteria. For example the statement, "This is a bad place for me" was deemed a lie, and the statement "I have every right to be angry at you for putting me here" is deemed abusive. I believe the students there are set up to fail when it comes to communicating with their parents. Not only are they limited in what they can say but the parents are told to expect their child to lie about the situation. So if in the event the child is able to communicate how they really feel about HLA or what their experience really is the parents has already decided not to believe them on the advice of the childs counselor. "
You are right is saying that it is a grey area. My personal preference as a counselor, and many other counselors, was to do exactly as you stated. Let both sides be heard and trust that the parents can dicipher truth from fiction. Their comes a point, however, when all you are doing is arguing and defending and you have to say enough is enough and insist that everyone move on. Otherwise, the child (and often the parents) will stay in an arguement indefinitely not realizing that this is where they are comfortable. The reality is for them, that as long a they can keep arguing about the petty stuff, they don't have to face the real issues. It is the therapist job to help everyone cut through the BS and focus on the real issues at hand. Sometimes this means controling the conversation.
Please understand, I sympathize with your frustrating over this and I don't pretend to know what your personal experience was. Perhaps, you should have been allowed to express more of what you needed to say. Maybe not. I wasn't there. At least, I don't think I was there. :wink:
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I appreciate your honesty on both issues.
As to the physical labor part, I dont have an issue with students being made to do landscaping or assorted work, I agree with you that it does instill a sense of pride. However when used in the punitive sense I feel it does almost no good, and since according to state regs for theraputic boarding schools, it is in fact illegal.
Ill hold off on any further discussion of that though until you get a chance to address that point.
I may have missed it but are you willing to state when you were at HLA?
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"abc123"? you're kidding, right? sounds a little bit condescending, no?
are you here to teach the abc's and 123's the hla way? because i can tell ya that there are quite a few things you say that are upside-down and backwards from the reality that i know.
i couldn't help but notice how you answered the questions, either. the typical responses. "that USED to happen, but not anymore.." same old game, still pretty lame.
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On 2005-12-27 12:13:00, abc123 wrote:
"
I can only tell you what students are told now. Ironically, students are specifically told now that they CAN say that they don't like it here. What they are told they cannot do is be disrespectful or lie. For example, a student CAN say, "I am so pissed off at my counselor. He put me on restriction and I don't think he even cares about me." A student CANNOT say, "My fucking counselor is an asshole. He put on restrictions for bullshit and told me to piss off because he doesn't care what happens to me." Now, if a counselor actually said that to a student (which would be highly unlikely), the student has every right to go to an administrator and let them know what was going on and the administration would take care of it.
The problem with this is that if the counselor DID tell the student to "piss off" because he really didn't care about the kid (I agree, highly unlikely) and the student tried to go to an administrator, the student would NEVER be believed.
It's always the counselor's word against the kid's. And the counselor is always right. No matter what the issue. And no matter what the kid tells the parent about the counselor or the school in general - the kid is lying. That's what the school gets parents to believe. I'm a parent. My kid was there for a long time. They had me believing everything he said was a lie. I'm learning now that HLA manipulates parent against child. Any and all trust between parent and child is destroyed.
My kid was NOT abused. I know that. He was there for a long time and thanks to some incrediby caring and talented people he is a healthy person today. He wasn't starved, hit, locked up, made to do manual labor for hours on end, physically or sexually abused. He's been home for quite a while so I know everything that went on - the good and the bad. I'm not getting on the "TBSs are abusive facilities that should all be shut down" bandwagon. But there is alot wrong with the place.
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The above post is 100% correct.
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>>>I'm learning now that HLA manipulates parent against child. Any and all trust between parent and child is destroyed.<<<
This was my experience as well.
>>>The problem with this is that if the counselor DID tell the student to "piss off" because he really didn't care about the kid (I agree, highly unlikely) and the student tried to go to an administrator, the student would NEVER be believed.<<<
This is a significant wrong, and common practice in the industry from the beginning. That the kids have no ally, once parents are turned against them, they are left extremely vulnerable. Given that this aspect is necessary to hla's 'success', seems doubtful that it will ever change. And how would one ever substantiate that it was no longer happening, without outside monitoring?
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On 2005-12-27 13:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
""abc123"? you're kidding, right? sounds a little bit condescending, no?
are you here to teach the abc's and 123's the hla way? because i can tell ya that there are quite a few things you say that are upside-down and backwards from the reality that i know.
i couldn't help but notice how you answered the questions, either. the typical responses. "that USED to happen, but not anymore.." same old game, still pretty lame."
It was the most random thing that I thought of in the five seconds of thought that I put into what name I was going to use. No hidden meaning.
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But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?
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On 2005-12-27 13:26:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"I appreciate your honesty on both issues.
As to the physical labor part, I dont have an issue with students being made to do landscaping or assorted work, I agree with you that it does instill a sense of pride. However when used in the punitive sense I feel it does almost no good, and since according to state regs for theraputic boarding schools, it is in fact illegal.
Ill hold off on any further discussion of that though until you get a chance to address that point.
I may have missed it but are you willing to state when you were at HLA?"
Are there state regs for therapeutic boarding schools? Not rtc's, but tbs's. I am not aware of any. If there are I would love to see them. Where would I find them?
I am not willing to say when I was there. Too revealing. I am getting people dumping on me for the user name that took me five seconds to pick.
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Fair enough. There are indeed regs for theraputic boarding schools. I believe they have been posted on here several times. If not they can be found by contacting the ORS of GA.
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On 2005-12-27 14:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
On 2005-12-27 12:13:00, abc123 wrote:
I can only tell you what students are told now. Ironically, students are specifically told now that they CAN say that they don't like it here. What they are told they cannot do is be disrespectful or lie. For example, a student CAN say, "I am so pissed off at my counselor. He put me on restriction and I don't think he even cares about me." A student CANNOT say, "My fucking counselor is an asshole. He put on restrictions for bullshit and told me to piss off because he doesn't care what happens to me." Now, if a counselor actually said that to a student (which would be highly unlikely), the student has every right to go to an administrator and let them know what was going on and the administration would take care of it.
The problem with this is that if the counselor DID tell the student to "piss off" because he really didn't care about the kid (I agree, highly unlikely) and the student tried to go to an administrator, the student would NEVER be believed.
It's always the counselor's word against the kid's. And the counselor is always right. No matter what the issue. And no matter what the kid tells the parent about the counselor or the school in general - the kid is lying. That's what the school gets parents to believe. I'm a parent. My kid was there for a long time. They had me believing everything he said was a lie. I'm learning now that HLA manipulates parent against child. Any and all trust between parent and child is destroyed.
My kid was NOT abused. I know that. He was there for a long time and thanks to some incrediby caring and talented people he is a healthy person today. He wasn't starved, hit, locked up, made to do manual labor for hours on end, physically or sexually abused. He's been home for quite a while so I know everything that went on - the good and the bad. I'm not getting on the "TBSs are abusive facilities that should all be shut down" bandwagon. But there is alot wrong with the place."
In a sense you are right. There is a tendency to believe the staff over the student. I do disagree with you when you say that the student is never believed. What the families and kids, perhaps unfortunately, can never see is the behind the scences investigations and follow up that happens when any allegations are made. Staff are questioned and disciplined at times when there has been innapropriate behavior(which is rare). There have been times when staff have been suspended and even let go. Those situations have to be left behind closed doors, however, for legal reasons. Have there ever been times when something has happened and a student was not beleived? I'm sure there has been, and that is unfortunate. For the vast majority of the time, the staff at HLA are extremely professional and caring.
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>>>Are there state regs for therapeutic boarding schools? Not rtc's, but tbs's. I am not aware of any. If there are I would love to see them. Where would I find them?<<<
Can you point to one state that has regulations specific to TBSs?
I've read a number of state regs and have never seen that.
The catagories are usually Childcare Centers, Childcare Homes, Foster Homes, Outdoor or Wilderness Therapy, and Residental Treatment Facilities [aka Residential Childcare, etc]. The latter being 24 hour care in an institution away from home.
Have you read ORS regs? They're pretty lenient. Why do you feel they aren't appropriate for HLA?
Would you place your own child in a program with no monitoring or oversight?
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On 2005-12-27 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?"
If thats true then the unanswered question remains do the students who did suffer under the bad system have a legitimate claim against the school?
Ive been asking this question for a year, its never once been answered.
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On 2005-12-27 20:14:00, RobertBruce wrote:
On 2005-12-27 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?"
If thats true then the unanswered question remains do the students who did suffer under the bad system have a legitimate claim against the school?
Ive been asking this question for a year, its never once been answered. "
My guess would be no. There would be too much he said/ she said. Only circumstantial evidence. The claims made on this board may or may not be true, but they would be extremely difficult to prove in a court of law. For every student that was willing to testify against the school, HLA would come up with a student to testify for the school.
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There is a statute of limitation for claims against schools or staff. There is also the issue of whether or not the school is liable for what one staff member did. A judge would have to determine whether the staff member is charged or whether the school is responsible. In addition, you have the accuser having the burden of proof.
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True but there isnt much question into things like....food rationing....forced labor for hours on end.......isolated for weeks at a time.
Things HLA would have a hard time denying.
Either way Im not asking if it would hold up in court, I'm asking since HLA is complimenting itself on how many positive changes have been made, wouldnt that suggest that someone had to suffer through things prior to the changes being made?
Wouldnt that seem to fit the description of a legitimate complaint?
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On 2005-12-27 20:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-27 20:14:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
On 2005-12-27 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?"
If thats true then the unanswered question remains do the students who did suffer under the bad system have a legitimate claim against the school?
Ive been asking this question for a year, its never once been answered. "
My guess would be no. There would be too much he said/ she said. Only circumstantial evidence. The claims made on this board may or may not be true, but they would be extremely difficult to prove in a court of law. For every student that was willing to testify against the school, HLA would come up with a student to testify for the school. "
under civil law there is no burden of proof, only the "preponderance of evidence." you don't have to prove anything and i think that the dozens of abused kids that will make statements/testify would be quite enough to gain a legal victory. it's not as if they don't have a huge insurance policy that will pay the inevitable settlements. hit 'em where it hurts: the wallet.
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RobertBruce sure seems like he could use a good old-fashioned brain wash... :wstupid:
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That's funny, that is the exact same thing my counselors used to say to me.
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They usually do say that. When confronted with actual evidence that their little happy place does in fact use brainwashing techniques they give up, admit to it BUT they tell you that its good for you. Your brain needs a good washing. Been saying it since my time in a program some ^%(#^&$^ years ago. Damn I feel old.
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And how would you know about this supposed insurance policy? Does it even exist?
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On 2005-12-28 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And how would you know about this supposed insurance policy? Does it even exist?"
If it doesn't they're operating without insurance. BIG RED FLAG THERE, FOLKS.
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On 2005-12-28 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And how would you know about this supposed insurance policy? Does it even exist?"
Ummm yes many companies are getting on this crazy new bandwagon of having insurance.
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On 2005-12-27 20:14:00, RobertBruce wrote:
On 2005-12-27 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?"
If thats true then the unanswered question remains do the students who did suffer under the bad system have a legitimate claim against the school?
Ive been asking this question for a year, its never once been answered. "
Anyone who cares to bring a law suit against HLA, or any one else for that matter, better make sure they are clean themselve. For instance, it can be argued that many on this sight have defamed the character of other individuals on this sight. You better be ready for a counter suit. Once you step into that arena, things tend to get ugly...and expensive.
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On 2005-12-29 05:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-27 20:14:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"
On 2005-12-27 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"But what if it is the truth? Something that used to happen but now has been changed or been made better? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the goal? To make things better for future students?"
If thats true then the unanswered question remains do the students who did suffer under the bad system have a legitimate claim against the school?
Ive been asking this question for a year, its never once been answered. "
Anyone who cares to bring a law suit against HLA, or any one else for that matter, better make sure they are clean themselve. For instance, it can be argued that many on this sight have defamed the character of other individuals on this sight. You better be ready for a counter suit. Once you step into that arena, things tend to get ugly...and expensive."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
SAME OLD SHIT.
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>>>Anyone who cares to bring a law suit against HLA, or any one else for that matter, better make sure they are clean themselve. For instance, it can be argued that many on this sight have defamed the character of other individuals on this sight. You better be ready for a counter suit. Once you step into that arena, things tend to get ugly...and expensive."<<<<
Just curious Bill, are you implying that hla would countersue on Suzanne's behalf? On Aften's behalf?
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I don't see anybody named Bill posting. Who are you addressing?
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who else has such a vested interest in defending susie?
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If you call the school you will find out that Bill is out of town. Therefore, it is not him posting here.
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If you dont believe me call the HLA number and ask for him. His voice msg says he will be out until Tuesday.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 320#158425 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12565&forum=41&start=320#158425)
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On 2005-12-29 08:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you call the school you will find out that Bill is out of town. Therefore, it is not him posting here."
Yes, you're right. How stupid can we be? OF COURSE there is no internet access except in Dahlonega. What was everybody thinking?
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On 2005-12-22 11:36:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"You claim to do so much IP searching and finding other's identities. What makes you think others haven't already figured out who you are? Poor Mr. Bruce. Delusional to the end."
Talk about turning the tables...
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On 2005-12-22 13:39:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"You are talking to several different individuals Mr. Bruce. Now answer the question put forth to you. What state do you live in? I have told you, now tell us. Or, are you too afraid of the boogeyman."
And the several different individuals are all you, Suzie. :lol:
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On 2005-12-22 19:32:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"It matters, Mr. Bruce, because you love to trash others for hiding when you yourself are the most secretive person on here. YOU, Mr. Bruce, lurk in the shadows."
Is that so?
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it looks like HLA is still not following the requirements for "private schools", in terms of number of hours of academic instruction. this, inspite of the NEW schedule which was supposed to allow more time for academics and less to 'therapy".
Georgia Code: Private Schools
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl ... e=20-2-690 (http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=20-2-690)
20-2-690.
(a) This subpart recognizes the existence of public schools, private schools, and home study programs as educational entities.
(b) As used in this subpart, the term 'private school' means an institution meeting the following criteria or requirements:
(1) The primary purpose of the institution is to provide education or, if the primary purpose of the institution is religious [therapeutic??] in nature, the institution shall provide the basic academic educational program specified in paragraph (4) of this subsection;
(2) The institution is privately controlled and operates on a continuing basis;
(3) The institution provides instruction each 12 months for the equivalent of 180 school days of education with each school day consisting of at least four and one-half school hours;
(4) The institution provides a basic academic educational program which includes, but is not limited to, reading, language arts, mathematics, social studies, and science;
(5) Within 30 days after the beginning of each school year, it shall be the duty of the administrator of each private school to provide to the school superintendent of each local public school district which has residents enrolled in the private school a list of the name, age, and residence of each resident so enrolled. At the end of each school month, it shall be the duty of the administrator of each private school to notify the school superintendent of each local public school district of the name, age, and residence of each student residing in the public school district who enrolls or terminates enrollment at the private school during the immediately preceding school month. Such records shall indicate when attendance has been suspended and the grounds for such suspension. Enrollment records and reports shall not be used for any purpose except providing necessary enrollment information, except with the permission of the parent or guardian of a child, pursuant to the subpoena of a court of competent jurisdiction, or for verification of attendance by the Department of Public Safety for the purposes set forth in subsection (a.1) of Code Section 40-5-22; and
(6) Any building used by the institution for private school purposes meets all health and safety standards established under state law and local ordinances.
Section (c) removed re: homeschool
(d) Any person who operates a private school without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) of this Code section or any person who operates a home study program without complying with the requirements of subsection (c) of this Code section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $100.00.
(e) The State Board of Education shall devise, adopt, and make available to local school superintendents, who shall in turn make available to administrators of private schools and parents or guardians with children in home study programs, such printed forms and procedures as may be reasonably necessary to carry out efficiently the reporting provisions of this Code section, but such printed forms and procedures shall not be inconsistent with or exceed the requirements of this Code section.
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HLA not following requirements?
Who da thunk it?
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Lenny B. doesn't like state regulations...He
made up his own to follow..NATSAP...If ind it odd, that when I called the state ed. department and inquired about private schools, the woman just said to stay away from NATSAP schools..yet, hello, the state will not do anything about HLA..
ORS is compliant with HLA, not the reverse..Does
anyone know who is running the asylum?
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Chris Allen was a licensed counselor. He left HLA. Unfortunately, he was the ONLY licensed counselor on staff at the time.
Since Chris' departure, HLA reportedly has been operating with NO LICENSED COUNSELORS.
How can they offer therapy and bill for it without a licensed counselor on board? The short answer I've gotten is that the boss signs off on the paperwork. Since he does not directly treat patients, this seems fraudulent.
Can any HLA employees explain how they offer therapy without licenses to provide it?
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer
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Anybody care to answer?
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No thanks thats one of those legs we dont have to stand on.
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does HLA say they have licensed counselors or just masters level counselors?
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On 2006-03-16 15:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"does HLA say they have licensed counselors or just masters level counselors?"
I think they say "Masters level." I'm not sure though. You'd have to check the source.
The point is that they bill insurance companies for mental health counseling. The person signing off on the bills didn't do the work. That's the problem.
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5) Within 30 days after the beginning of each school year, it shall be the duty of the administrator of each private school to provide to the school superintendent of each local public school district which has residents enrolled in the private school a list of the name, age, and residence of each resident so enrolled.
I'm not sure how this dovetails with "confidentiality."
I can't see how they could possibly be in compliance with these regulations and still maintain confidentiality of their patients.
Maybe that's why they don't comply?
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Is Hidden Lake Academy in Dahlonega registered with your office as a private boarding school and do they provide reports to this office? Thank you for your prompt response.
From: David Luke
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:03:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Private School Inquiry
Yes! They provide enrollment at the beginning of each school year.
****
Didn't know to ask about the monthly reports.
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On 2006-03-15 11:01:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Chris Allen was a licensed counselor. He left HLA. Unfortunately, he was the ONLY licensed counselor on staff at the time.
Since Chris' departure, HLA reportedly has been operating with NO LICENSED COUNSELORS.
How can they offer therapy and bill for it without a licensed counselor on board? The short answer I've gotten is that the boss signs off on the paperwork. Since he does not directly treat patients, this seems fraudulent.
Can any HLA employees explain how they offer therapy without licenses to provide it?
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer"
Anyone?
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Lenny B. signs off on all the counseling bills each month.. Even when Chris Allen was there,
I have not one counseling bill signed by him.
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Sooo in other words the guy that has zero interaction with the students?
You might as well have gotten Bullfrog to sign off on them. She saw the kids just as much as he did, which was never.
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On 2006-03-19 06:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-03-15 11:01:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Chris Allen was a licensed counselor. He left HLA. Unfortunately, he was the ONLY licensed counselor on staff at the time.
Since Chris' departure, HLA reportedly has been operating with NO LICENSED COUNSELORS.
How can they offer therapy and bill for it without a licensed counselor on board? The short answer I've gotten is that the boss signs off on the paperwork. Since he does not directly treat patients, this seems fraudulent.
Can any HLA employees explain how they offer therapy without licenses to provide it?
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer"
Anyone?"
bump
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Maybe someone will respond after they hire a licensed practitioner?
How are they doing "therapy" now without a license?
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Updated staff listing shows 1 LPC, 1 MSW, and 1 LAPC. Looks like they have their bases covered.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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In the State of Georgia, regarding an LPN...are they allowed to dispense medication without an RN
overseeing distribution?[ This Message was edited by: juniper2 on 2006-03-27 08:36 ]
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On 2006-03-27 08:18:00, odie wrote:
"Updated staff listing shows 1 LPC, 1 MSW, and 1 LAPC. Looks like they have their bases covered.Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
"
Well, I'd say it's a little less than "bases covered." Three practitioners to handle a caseload of over 150 kids doesn't quite get it done.
In effect, these kids are given hours and hours of "therapy" every week by unlicensed staff. Look, if every kid gets three hours of counseling a week (conservative estimate) that leaves the three licensed counselors with a workload equal to one hundred and fifty hours per week each.
Somehow I seriously doubt that these folks are the ones doing the counseling. I hope they are aware that if the billing is being done in their names, yet they are not seeing the patients, it leaves them in legal jeopardy for a serious criminal offense.
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On 2006-03-27 08:35:00, juniper2 wrote:
"In the State of Georgia, regarding an LPN...are they allowed to dispense medication without an RN
overseeing distribution?[ This Message was edited by: juniper2 on 2006-03-27 08:36 ]"
(d) Medications. The institutions shall develop and implement policies and procedures for
the use and management of all types of medications. All direct care staff shall receive
orientation on the policies and procedures. Such policies and procedures shall include the
following:*
1. Non-prescription medications. No child shall be given a non-prescription medication
by staff members of the institution unless the child exhibits symptoms that the medication
is designed to relieve.*
2. Prescription medications. No child shall be given a prescription medication unless the
mediation is prescribed for the child by an authorized health care professional.*
(i) Prescription medications shall only be given to a child as ordered in the child's
prescription. An institution shall not permit such medications prescribed for one child to
be given to any other child.*
(ii) A child's attending physician shall be notified in cases of dosage errors, drug
reactions, or if the prescription medication does not appear to be effective.*
3. Psychotropic medications. No child shall be given psychotropic medications unless use
is in accordance with the goals and objectives of the child's service plan.*
(i) Psychotropic medications must be prescribed by a physician who has responsibility for
the diagnosis and treatment of the child's conditions that necessitate such medication.
Continued use of psychotropic medications shall be reviewed by the prescribing physician
every sixty days.*
(ii) Psychotropic medication shall only be given to a child as ordered in the child's
prescription. An institution shall not permit such medications prescribed for one child to
be given to another child.*
(iii) The prescribing physician shall be notified in cases of dosage errors, drug reactions,
or if the psychotropic medication does not appear to be effective.*
4. An institution shall designate and authorize classes of staff, such as Child Care
Workers, to handout medications and supervise the taking of medications. Only
designated and authorized staff shall handout and supervise the taking of medication.*
5. An institution shall maintain a record of all medications handed-out by authorized staff
and taken by children to include: name of child taking medication, name of prescribing
physician and date of prescription (if the medication is prescription or psychotropic),
required dosage, date and time taken, dosage taken, and name and signature of staff
member that handed-out and supervised the taking of the medication.*
6. All prescription and non-prescription medications shall be kept in a locked storage
cabinet or container which is not accessible to the children and stored separate from
cleaning chemicals and supplies or poisons. The keys to the locked cabinets or containers
shall not be accessible to residents.*
7. All expired medications shall be discarded and not handed-out for use.*
(e) First Aid Supplies. Each living unit shall have a first aid kit and instruction manual;
such kit shall contain scissors, tweezers, gauze pads, adhesive tape, thermometer, assorted
band-aids, antiseptic cleaning solution, and bandages.*
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In other words just about anyone can give out the meds. :roll:
All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher.
--Ambrose Bierce
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On 2005-12-14 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Posted by a physician in another thread...
"My experience with Hidden Lake Academy was also distressing.
In my opinion, and the opinions of the six other physicians in my practice who followed my HLA misadventure with me, HLA is a predator whose prey is the horrified parents of disturbed teens. It is an institution of opportunity, bringing home its bottom line at the expense of the desperate, frazzled families it exploits.
By the time most parents are introduced to HLA, they've already been through a costly and demoralizing gauntlet of police stations, court appearances, counselor visits, psychiatric evaluations...even hospital visits.
To say they are desperate is an understatement. They are trying to keep their families from self-destructing. In most cases, the only option is turning the child out onto the streets: most insurance policies won't cover mental health care, and even if a family is lucky enough to have good coverage, it is limited to short, individual events. Deeply needed inpatient care is rarely an option for most of these families.
So even considering a modality such as a therapeutic boarding school is a true extravagance. Actually sending the student may mean mortgaging a home, selling it, or even bancruptcy.
Enter Hidden Lake and its ilk.
I was asked by the parents of a young teen to evaluate HLA by its Web site. What stood out to me even more than the philosophy that medical therapy was discouraged were the many typographical errors and careless mistakes on nearly every page of the site. While my own writing is not perfect, I am not registered as a boarding school, responsible for the education of children, presumably overflowing with teachers more than capable of proofreading the very materials provided to the public for the purpose of attracting business.
When I brought my concerns to the attention to the school, they were received with, well, less than warm gratitude. My comments to HLA were meant to be constructive. I was gracious and self-effacing in my original letter because the last thing I wanted was to offend the school. Clearly such niceties were a waste of effort.
Given that the parents are expected to pay upwards of seven thousand dollars per month for the privilege of sending their child to a therapeutic boarding school, I actually expected a minimum of civility. None was evident.
My credentials were questioned?this from an institution whose methods are questionable, at best, from a medical (and psychiatric, I might add) point of view.
Fast forward a few months...and imagine how surprised I was to come across the story of the parent in the previous posts. Am I shocked HLA will not send the child's transcripts? Nope. They demonstrated their pettiness, immaturity, and curious vindictiveness to me, a peer and potential referral base a long time ago. Was I surprised that personal belongings, including necessary daily medications, were sent COD?by ground? Actually, yes.
Not only did that shock me, it caused me to pick up the phone and discuss this gross mismanagement of a patient's medications with a malpractice attorney, who recommends HLA check to be sure their insurance premiums are paid.
To the parent: my suggestion is that you alert your attorney to your experience. Gather all proof of your allegations, including the boxes the personal effects were sent in, the COD receipt(s), the condition of any damaged items, a list of missing items, if any, and proof of payments made to HLA. Regardless of any contract signed (as a previous Anonymous poster cryptically stated), a minimum level of responsibility to the patient's health is required by ANY institution. That minimum includes making reasonable arrangements for the patient to have access to their medications. COD shipping by ground is not, by any standard, "reasonable."
So guess what, parent? You may be getting a sizeable percentage of the "investment" HLA coerced you to pay them right back into your pocket.
I'll be cheering for you from this sideline."
UNBIASED OUTSIDE OPINION BY MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL SAYS HLA IS "PREDATOR" VICTIMIZING PARENTS AND CHILDREN. WAKE UP, PEOPLE. :skull:"
I guess HLA is not very well respected by the professional community. This doctor has a lot to say about how they operate.
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The last post is a pretty damning indictment from an outside party. I'm not sure how you parents can't see through the smokescreen...
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Recently a number of questions have been raised concerning whether or not HLA is liscened as they should be.
The answer is no.
HLA has lied to the state since its inception claiming that they are a traditional boarding school where the emphasis is on education.
However the website and what the told the parents and education consultants was a very different story.
In that respect it claimed it was a theraputic boarding school with an emphasis on therapy.
Its admission policy seemed to fall more in line with that it was a theraputic boarding school. I mean how many traditional ones require an evaluation and recomendation by a psychologist?
So now the question arises, is it a theraputic boarding school or not?
If it is then why isnt HLA licensed as one?
If it isnt then why is there so much emphasis placed on therapy?
Perhaps it is a theraputic boarding school as their website claimed, but does not mention that to the state for various reasons.
Namely a few simple policies they would be forced to follow.
1. Food cannot be rationed.
2. Physical labor cannot be used as a punishment.
3. A state represenative must be available for greivances.
You know those little things HLA has a current policy which they may not want to change around.
I know Deborah had a full listing off all the regs that would apply. Perhaps she could be generous enough to post those again for us.
Id be interested to see if any of Buchi's puppets can address these questions or if theyd rather pretend they dont exist.
Maybe we will get lucky and Buch himself will drop by and put some of these questions to rest.
We can hope cant we?
Stuck by his guns for an entire year of abuse heaped upon him for telling the truth - turns out he's dead on the money.