Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 12:21:00 PM
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http://www.questguard.com/GPS-Teen-Tracking_.html (http://www.questguard.com/GPS-Teen-Tracking_.html)
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Unless the parents hide the transmitter in the teens car of backpack, it will not work. The teen can simply ask his friend to carry the locator around at school while they ditch. Easy!
THe more gadgetry the squares come out with, it simply calls for a change of tactics. They will never win.
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Unless the parents hide the transmitter in the teens car or backpack, it will not work. The teen can simply ask his friend to carry the locator around at school while they ditch. Easy!
THe more gadgetry the squares come out with, it simply calls for a change of tactics. They will never win.
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This is so sick.
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Maybe they could work it like those ID implants for pets.
Still sick and wrong though.
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Put it in an ipod, cell phone, car, gameboy. Heck, they can make transmitters smaller than a deck of cards. They are trying to make them as small as postage stamps. Not unlike the technology that is going to be hidden inside every major purchase. Track the buyer, track the product! Big brother is watching each and every one of us - not just teens!
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Just as the market for tracking products is growing, so is the market for products designed to interfere with their tracking. I will never buy products with RIFD tags or whatever they are called. Especially clothes and personal items. Fuck that shit!
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This is great! This maybe would have kept our teen from ending up in a program. We would have know what he was doing months earlier and could have possibly dealt with it before things got so bad. I wonder if parents get a reduction in insurance rates for their teen driver if the device is installed.
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HAHA. I can imagine, the overly concerned parent sitting at home, constantly clicking the refresh button on their browser tracking their teen -- frustrated because they thought it would help them be a better parent. Remember the law of unintended consequences. Think about this one REAL hard, and tell us why it would help. :wink:
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We would have know what he was doing months earlier
Wrong. Show us where this device has a built in camera and microphone. It simply tells you where the teen is. I can 'do' stuff anywhere, even if I told you I was going there. It's a false sense of security, and the tables will be easily turned against the parents. Instead of REAL parenting, they will say 'oh just take the locator' and think they 'parent by PC' or whatever. You think teens can't out-smart you with TECHNOLOGY? Get real! :lol:
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On 2005-10-12 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is great! This maybe would have kept our teen from ending up in a program. We would have know what he was doing months earlier and could have possibly dealt with it before things got so bad. I wonder if parents get a reduction in insurance rates for their teen driver if the device is installed."
Insurance breaks? You have GOT to be kidding!
So, if you go around snooping and spying on your kids, preventing them from making any mistakes, how do they ever learn anything? Just what is the process by which they change from totally dependent babies to registered voters?
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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On 2005-10-12 14:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just as the market for tracking products is growing, so is the market for products designed to interfere with their tracking. I will never buy products with RIFD tags or whatever they are called. Especially clothes and personal items. Fuck that shit!"
I would buy cheap ones and leave give them to bums.I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use
--Galileo Galilei
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I wonder if parents get a reduction in insurance rates for their teen driver if the device is installed.
Hmm.. money, I wonder where your priorities are?
PS: If you hadn't sent your son to a program, you probably could have bought a new car. Or two. Or three. (or four or five)
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The real issue here is one of trust. We intend to teach our children lessons in being trustworthy and trusting. How can you do that when you plant a tracking device on them which simply screams, "I don't trust you!"
The same holds true for mandatory drug screening. Some schools do this to atheletes. Some businesses do this. It undermines the culture of trust. What happened to 'innocent until proven guilty?'
I honestly believe that by questioning a child's or teenager's trust in this way is harmful. They will think, "Hey, what's the point of being truthful and trustworthy? They don't trust me anyway." It instills a culture of mistrust in our entire society.
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I totally agree. Kids need a sense that their parents do trust them and that they are responsible for themselves and for their actions. Parents are the ones who seem completely out of control, thinking they must control their teen's every move. If parents were parenting properly perhaps their children would not be acting out in the ways they are. Perhaps children would not be so angry, so defiant. THink about it parents. If you spent more times with your kids, don't you think that maybe they would be less likely to be acting out? So many parents are busy these days with jobs, new boyfriends and girlfriends following divorce, that there is little time for the kids. Who pays? The teens and kids who are being sent to gulag schools.
I can't imagine what I would have felt if I learned my parents were tracking me. I can't imagine what my two kids would have felt if I did that to them. Fortunately, my kids are trustworthy and they know I trust them. They had to earn it, my trust, and they know their actions could cause them to lose my trust. They don't want that and they work to keep it. Works well that way. And on the flip side, I work to keep their trust as well.
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On 2005-10-12 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is great! This maybe would have kept our teen from ending up in a program. We would have know what he was doing months earlier and could have possibly dealt with it before things got so bad. I wonder if parents get a reduction in insurance rates for their teen driver if the device is installed."
These "fleet management tools" have been around for 10-15 years already, but have been cost-prohibitive until recently. Same with GPS units that people use on camping trips.
Ah yes, the yin and yang of technology... If I had a fleet of company vehicles to manage, I'd probably install the units... would I put one on my own car to track my kid? That would be a resounding NO that you just heard. I mean hell no! If your relationship with your teen is based on lies and deception then why enforce it with more lies and deception? Deal with the issues at hand instead of compounding them. Shit, get rid of your cars, get a bicycle and get some damn exercise. Gas is too expensive, the air is too dirty and people are too fat and lazy.
And now Im done with my morning rant, I have to go for a walk.
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I am not at all worried about tracking wear-a-bouts, but I do like the idea of this divice one must breath into to measure intoxication levels, before the car will start. If I could have had something like that, I would have worried a lot less.
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Im gonna give my pals at Halliburton a call and see if they can hook me up with some night vision goggles and my own black helicopter. Full-on ninja-wear 24/7. Keep those teens in line. Fuck, keep everyone in line. Peace, the old-fashioned way!
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you talk about trust. If these kids were trust worthy, they wouuldn't be sent to a program in the first place! Good, trustworthy, honest, law abiding teenagers are not the ones being sent to programs! Trust must be earned. Once broken, a device showing where and how fast a teen has been could actually help rebuild that trust.
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***Good, trustworthy, honest, law abiding teenagers are not the ones being sent to programs!
You couldn't be more wrong. There is many a kid warehoused for being an embarassment or inconvenience to a busy parent. Ever occur to you that if the parent were trustworthy the kid might not have been sent to a program?
http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml (http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml)
A fable- why control doesn't work.
Excerpt:
The fable I began this talk with has a second point. What the dissident told the city council was, "Why work only to PROTECT our children from their suicidal impulses? Why not find out what's BEHIND their suicidal impulses and deal with THAT? In other words, why not deal with the CAUSE of the problem instead of perpetually dealing with its effects?" ****
Always looking for new control techniques, cause no one wants to look at and address the real problem. Kids needs aren't being met. Abandonment and Punishment are not the solutions.
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Don't buy it! If the kid is good, honest, trustworthy and law abiding it would not be an embarassment. That child is a pride and joy! Kids go to programs because they choose not to follow the rules at home, school, or community. I know several families that have had to send their kids to programs. None of them sent their kid because the family was too busy for them.
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Don't buy it! If the kid is good, honest, trustworthy and law abiding it would not be an embarassment. That child is a pride and joy! Kids go to programs because they choose not to follow the rules at home, school, or community.
Kids never choose to go to programs. That is the parents' choice. Parents who are too lazy and uncaring to take care of their kids, and who prefer to throw the problem at someone else.
Why can't you take responsibility for your own actions? You picked up the phone. You wrote the checks. You called in the child kidnappers (if you employed kidnappers to take your child away). You kept on sending the money month after month. Your child being in a program is not his/her choice or doing. It's YOURS.
I know several families that have had to send their kids to programs. None of them sent their kid because the family was too busy for them. "
What a load os bullshit. Many families abandon their kids (yes, people, sending a kid to be locked up for months and years without much contact with the outside world is abandonment, even if you make up pretty names for it) because the parents were too busy with their own lives. Many times it is because there was a divorce, and both parents just want to move on with their lives-- minus the kids. Many, many times it is because a new step parent joined the family.
It's just too convinient for you people to blame it all on those horrible "trouble teens". Acting like adults and taking responsibility for what you did wrong is just too much for you, isn't it?
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The post doesn't say the child chose the program. It says the child chose not to follow the rules of the house, school, or community. I think teenagers should have to take responsibility for their own actions.
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On 2005-10-13 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you talk about trust. If these kids were trust worthy, they wouuldn't be sent to a program in the first place! Good, trustworthy, honest, law abiding teenagers are not the ones being sent to programs! Trust must be earned. Once broken, a device showing where and how fast a teen has been could actually help rebuild that trust."
The key phrase here is "once broken." I read an article (and no, I cannot remember where) about a school that wanted to tag every kid in the school. The school wanted to prevent abduction and truancy. It was an elementary school. The parents had mixed feelings about it. I don't know if they went through with it.
I stand by my earlier statements. To do this would simply undermine the development of trusting relationships. To treat people in this way creates a society of mistrust; where trust is replaced with surveillance.
If trust is broken and the child agrees with it, then a voluntary tag might just be the ticket to help regain that trust without having to lock the child up. It's not a perfect solution, but I would not object to it. There would have to be some agreed upon measurement to determine when the tag can be dispensed with; perhaps a set time period.
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***It says the child chose not to follow the rules of the house, school, or community. I think teenagers should have to take responsibility for their own actions.***
Uhhh, there's that program mentality again. A distressed kid is not CHOOSING to harm him/herself. They are operating in a default drive. If s/he trusted you enough to share their deepest, hardest fears and frustrations, you might get a glimmer of what kid's think and feel.
If you don't know your kids thoughts and feelings, you are having a surface relationship. There is no trust, and hasn't been for some time. That's just the truth of the matter.
Given that, what you're really saying is that teenagers should be punished for their reactions to an insane world and deficient culture. :rofl:
Would it just kill you programmies to consider the possibility that kids needs aren't being met in this society? As assinine, to some of us, as professing that a rape victim needs a little BM to get over her/his distress.
How can we start closing the gap in perception? You can't fix the problem when you haven't identified the problem. And the problem ain't ODD, or drugs, or your kid's friends, or any other symptomatic excuse you might point to.
This country is goin' down the shitter at lightening speed. Will the masses pull their heads out, or go down with it. Any wagers?
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On 2005-10-13 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you talk about trust. If these kids were trust worthy, they wouuldn't be sent to a program in the first place! Good, trustworthy, honest, law abiding teenagers are not the ones being sent to programs! Trust must be earned. Once broken, a device showing where and how fast a teen has been could actually help rebuild that trust."
How many teenagers do you know that are trustworthy and honest? Law abiding, maybe, but trustworthy and honest? If that were truly the criteria for sending someone away, no kid would be living at home anymore.
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On 2005-10-13 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you talk about trust. If these kids were trust worthy, they wouuldn't be sent to a program in the first place! Good, trustworthy, honest, law abiding teenagers are not the ones being sent to programs! Trust must be earned. Once broken, a device showing where and how fast a teen has been could actually help rebuild that trust."
I wanted to add one more thing. I disagree that "trust must be earned." Trust is assumed until it is broken.
Parents expect their children to trust them implicitly. Parents are older and more experienced. Children will trust their parents from day one, and will continue to trust them until the parents demonstrate they cannot be trusted. That same implicit trust goes both ways. Parents need to trust their children, too. It is up to the parent to teach and instill a sense of honesty, trust, and respect into their children. Children do not earn trust, they learn trust.
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QUOTE: Don't buy it! If the kid is good, honest, trustworthy and law abiding it would not be an embarassment. That child is a pride and joy! Kids go to programs because they choose not to follow the rules at home, school, or community. I know several families that have had to send their kids to programs. None of them sent their kid because the family was too busy for them.
******
Bullshit!! Kids are not always sent to programs because they are "bad", not "trustworthy", you name it. Some are good kids earning a 4.0 GPA, doing the right things, with parents who don't want to deal with them, whatever their reasons.
Ever thought about parents who abuse their kids and want a way to keep them quiet? Well, they just found it. And if you don't think it happens, then think again!!! Many kids sent to programs are victims of bad parenting and bad parents. Not all the time, but definitely sometimes, and something that should not be dismissed. Sadly, it happens all too often.
Then there are kids who misbehave and who lose their parents' trust. OK, didn't we all while we grew up? Didn't we do things that really drove out parents nuts? I can remember some neighbor boys who were abnoxious and who got into trouble, but they grew out of it and turned into normal adults. Most kids don't need programs to grow out of puberty. They just do, somehow. By the grace of God, I'm sure.
The point is that there are a wide range of kids out there, as there always have been. Our society is not family-oriented right now, hence more problems with kids and teens. So many families are broken, so many parents divorced, so many blended families, so many kids forgotten in the mix. So many parents working hard to make ends meet and finding their own way in life when their lives fall apart during divorce. How could they put all their focus on their kids? It's hard. I've not been through it personally but I've watched it plenty. It's a horrible process for the parents, it's a worse process for the kids - the victims of divorce.
I'm not bashing parents, I'm a parent. I think that our world has become more complex and difficult. It's easy to label a kid with a problem, it seems to be in right now. There are many labels, we know them all. Sometimes I think people forget that kids are just kids, plain and simple. Take away a lot of the junk food, feed them a wholesome healthy diet devoid of food coloring and tons of sweets, have family dinners every night, read to your kids and with your kids, be sure to have homework time, a quiet time in the house when you are available to help your child. All of this helps, even if you are a single parent. I know it's hard, I've seen it plenty. It's worth the extra effort. I'm not saying many parents don't make the effort, they do. I'm saying there are many factors that should be considered when putting a child under a microscope and labeling them with this disorder or that disorder. Look at the history of the child, not just their physical disorder. Find out where the underlying problems are and see if there is a way to solve those problems before they get out of hand.
Kids are usually pretty resiliant and pretty understanding. It's when their world is falling apart, when the fundamental core of their world falls apart, when parents are busy and don't let the child feel they are center in their parent's world, when a child feels unwanted, unloved, uncared for. That's when things fall apart. Top that with unhealthy eating, horrible television viewing, violent video games, and it starts to make sense.
This was not intended to point a finger at anyone but just a reminder of what might be happening to a child when they get off track. Maybe some love, stability, and understanding would help.
I realize there is the other side of all this, kids who are completely out of control and who do need some sort of intervention. I still don't think programs thousands of miles away, with kids abducted in the middle of the night, is the answer. Look for something close to home, some programs are set up so the child is there during the day and comes home at night. Parents and other family members, too, attend therapy to help heal the family unit, instead of making it seem it is all the child's fault. It is programs like these we should promote and seek out. Parents participate and children are home, not hundreds or thousands of miles away.
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On 2005-10-13 18:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The post doesn't say the child chose the program. It says the child chose not to follow the rules of the house, school, or community. I think teenagers should have to take responsibility for their own actions. "
I don't think that way. Teenagers, being children, need to be taught how to take repsonsiblity for their actions. This is learned. They were not born with this ability.
Almost all of these programs take kids 12-18. How can any sane person with any experience with children possibly think putting kids who are only 12 or 13 in with older kids is a good idea? There is a reason we separate these age groups in public schools. They are at completely different life phases.
The public education system even tried the experiment of separating a particularly difficult age group to give them a place of their own. They called it middle school. It failed. The solution being implemented across the US now is not to throw these kids with older kids, but with younger ones. The trend now is for K-8 schools. They find that 12-14 year old kids behave better with younger kids around. Keeping them in a stable environment that they have known and are comfortable with aids in getting them thrrough the difficult years of early puberty. They are not ready for the big leap to high school, yet.
Obviously, an older teen should accept more responsiblity for their actions, but they are still learning about theses things.
A year difference in age can be a big deal in a young person's maturity. And yes, some kids get there faster than others.