Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: tryingtoforget on August 24, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
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Hey I was just wondering if counselors DO indeed read this board. If you are a counselor, past or present, what do you REALLY think about Hidden Lake? You can keep it anonymous and everything, I'm just interested in some real and honest opinions.
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Yeah, there's me. And I have talked with a few others. Look back thru the HLA threads and see for yourself...
You can search by username as well using the "find posts by" link.
Have fun!
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yes, there are a few of us out here. :sad:
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Most of us are reluctant to post openly, those that have usually are visited by process servers. The school watches these boards, and tend to go after people who try and break thier rice bowl.
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The bottom line, though, is telling the truth. I've told LOTS of stories about HLA, and they are true to my experience.
It's only defaming/slanderous/libelous if it isn't true. So, fuck 'em.
In MY experience HLA was a total bullshit, new-age, pop-psyche rip-off factory.
There were tons of uneducated, unlicensed, uncertified staff, up to and icluding the "Clinical Director," who called himself "Doctor," but had a fake PhD from a known, unaccredited diploma mill (this was confirmed by the owner directly to me when I raised the question of unaccredited degrees).
That place, its "philosophy," and it's advertising, in my opinion, are FULL OF SHIT.
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Dysfunction how long ago did you work there and for how long?
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'94-'95
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yeah, I went through some pretty stupid counselors that would power tripp and say that she knew EVERYTHING. I got into the files and actuall found that one counselor got her degree online, how can you help us with no person on person experience
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Thelma,
are tapping on the glass, you know it disturbs the fish
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I hear ya. Did you happen to see which online program or school? some are accredited, some are not.
To be fair, all knowledge is theoretical until one practices it in the field, so I don't put much weight on that issue, especially for young professionals in a first time job scenario. I mean, everyone starts somewhere, right?
Now, whether or not it's appropriate to have "noobs" on the job for that level of care is an entirely different matter, one which is beyond the scope of this discussion.
What is more disturbing to me presently is that a resident had the ability to access confidential records. That throws up a MAJOR red flag in my book.
When were you there? For how long? For what?
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the kids seemed to clued in better than the staff most days. :???:
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On 2005-08-25 10:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thelma,
are tapping on the glass, you know it disturbs the fish"
Ah, the fish bowl . . .
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Then break the fucking rice bowl, come on spill it, give me a reson to go over there and put my foot up their asses, or at least give them a good yelling at. Give me names, I'm something like 20 minutes away, I want to make these people know who evil they are.
Ok, done with the mini-psudo-rant. But come on, spill, if you really hate whats going on, or if you really care about the kids, you will put your job on the line for it.
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Overlordd, are you going to provide for my family, pay my mortage, hire and pay my lawyer
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just to be sure,::hehehmm:: who was in the fishbowl, and who made the sign you can get bonus points if you know who the sign was given to.
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No, no im not, im expecting you to do whats right because you are a good human being. And doing whats right takes presidence, some times doing whats right hurts, but you have to do it.
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If there are good counselors there now maybe they can change the place for the better instead of shutting it down. Then they would keep their jobs and do good work too.
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I'll give you that point, and do you one better, doing the right thing hurts every time. I'm not so sure you know what your talking about. You seem very content to sit and post your manifesto. When was the last time, if ever, you put it all on the line. Made a stand and had the holy crap kicked out of you, hurt so bad that you wanted to die. Lost everything and sacraficed all that you had for the good of others. Made a life and death descison, that the outcome would mean your death or the death of others. Your sitting there comfy cozy in your dorm room, asking people to put not only thier welfare on the line but that of thier family. My question to you overlordd, is what are you willing to risk, what are you willing to sacrafice. Most of the people that I know who have worked there have tried to make things better for the kids, some of us have paid some very heavy prices for doing so. If your not willing to take that big of a stand, how can you ask someone else to do it. LEADERSHIP RULE #1 Never ask your squadies to do anything that you are not willing to do yourself, The best possible scenario is for you to do it with them.
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What am I willing to sacrifce for others you ask my friend. Everything, yes, I am sitting in my dorm room, but I am also trainning to fight and lead in the United States Army, and I will sacrfice my life it means one innocent person will live. I will fight for this country, I will die for this country, and I lead for this country. I do what is right, and I believe that is right. Now a days joining the army is a life and death choice.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-25 15:52 ]
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On 2005-08-25 14:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"just to be sure,::hehehmm:: who was in the fishbowl, and who made the sign you can get bonus points if you know who the sign was given to."
Oh, I feel so special right now!!
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You say you are willing, but you haven't. I pray that you never have to. You see most people who make that claim, don't realy understand what they are saying, it sounds good, but in reality it is very hollow. Idealism + poor judgement - expeirence = a lot of full bodybags. You are safely tucked away for the next four years, your also in cadet land, not out in the fleet. Out in the real world, where the rubber meets the road, that is where your claim will be tested. The truth is you don't realy know what you will do if you ever get in that type of situation. I get the impression that you have no real deep scars on your soul, not the ones that make you wake up in a cold sweat. I don't think that you see thier faces eachnight. SO who the hell are you to tell us that we have to risk the security of our family. Who are you to tell us, who have done more to help kids at HLA than just flame people on web boards. IMHO you haven't done shit, your all talk, and no walk. Why haven't you snuck on campus like you posted about, where is your pickett sign, where is your mass of humanity clamoring for heads.
Ps. you have to answer the questions to get the bonus points boys and girls
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at least he joined the military. what deep scars on your soul do you have from working at a bm warehouse? what deep sacrifices did you make to serve the population of hla?
did they beat you with a rubber hose for doing the "right thing"? what heavy price did you pay?
you seem to be equating signing over your life to the military to working as a counselor. what the fuck kind of comparison is that? what kind of egocentric idiot are you?
you're a fucking self-righteous, sanctimonius asswipe is all. get a fucking grip on reality.
besides your moronic argument, the problem with places like hla is that the programs don't work. it doesn't make a shit's worth of difference if you try hard to help because the structure, the environment are not therapeutic.
by working there and defending their methods you only show your ignorance, nothing more. if had any skills or were otherwise employable and were a decent person, you'd move on to meaningful employment. in the end, your just a lowlife who contributes to the suffering of children by promoting a system that endangers their mental and emotional well-being.
how dare you equate yourself with someone who has made a real personal sacrifice, idealistic or not. you've got nerve.
if all your family has is you to provide for them monetarily and morally, you've already endagered them quite well on your own. it's assholes like you that perpetuate the suffering of children in abusive and totally ineffective "programs."
i bet you'd be just as defensive of your job if you were working to herd jews into gas chambers. self-centered, dim-witted little bastard. "good work" + bad business = suffering.
that's an equation you should familiarize yourself with, foolish ideologue.
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Opinion are like assholes everyone has one and they all stink. He has not joined the military, he's in ROTC. Let's see a few weeks in college ROTC vs. 10 years in the Marines , tours in Desert Shield/ Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, Hati, & Afganistan. You seem to miss my point, He hides behind a web board, and not out there trying to make a difference. It is a rotton system, it does not help everyone, but some it does. I know because I have seen it with my own eyes. Not once have I defended anything to do with the program. Did you work there, did you circumvent the system to get the kids what they really needed, did you care for them to the point where it almost destroyed your marriage. I got as many of them out of there as I could, did the best I knew how to help them. Does it tear at my soul that I couldn't help more of them, hell yes it does. Maybe I am being a bit of an asshole, I am not going to appologise for that, I'm just doing exactly what Overlordd is doing speaking his mind. I have not defended the school, nor will I I saw too much for that, but I will defend my personal actions. If you were not there you have no right to judge me.
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. Let's see a few weeks in college ROTC vs. 10 years in the Marines , tours in Desert Shield/ Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, Hati, & Afganistan
What was the condition of your discharge?
I don't hide behind any web board. I stand up and say what I think every day of my life, just because I have not had the chance to act on it does not mean I will when I can. If you ask me about this on the street I will say what I think. Just because I post on a web board does not mean I am hiding. If I post anon, then I am hiding. I am easly contactable in the real world through his board. You dont have to have deep scars to do anything special, indeed if you have deep scars then what good does it do you?
Thank you for your service to our country, but you can't hide behind that and hide behind your scars and say that I have not done anything. You are alot older than I am, and chances are, by the time I'm your age, I will have done just as much as you.
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I'm sure the kids appreciated your efforts.
Without revealing too many details which could identify you, can you talk about how you were able to get some of them out?
What were their needs that you circumvented the system in order to get?
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On 2005-08-25 17:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Opinion are like assholes everyone has one and they all stink. He has not joined the military, he's in ROTC. Let's see a few weeks in college ROTC vs. 10 years in the Marines , tours in Desert Shield/ Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, Hati, & Afganistan. You seem to miss my point, He hides behind a web board, and not out there trying to make a difference. It is a rotton system, it does not help everyone, but some it does. I know because I have seen it with my own eyes. Not once have I defended anything to do with the program. Did you work there, did you circumvent the system to get the kids what they really needed, did you care for them to the point where it almost destroyed your marriage. I got as many of them out of there as I could, did the best I knew how to help them. Does it tear at my soul that I couldn't help more of them, hell yes it does. Maybe I am being a bit of an asshole, I am not going to appologise for that, I'm just doing exactly what Overlordd is doing speaking his mind. I have not defended the school, nor will I I saw too much for that, but I will defend my personal actions. If you were not there you have no right to judge me. "
I can vouch that this guy was very well respected within the HLA community. You're looking for a reason to attack HLA, OverLord? Go on then...go there, inquire with students; then write the media, sign petitions, picket and fence!
But you haven't even heard the success stories or what this man, whom I shall henceforth refer to as The Marine, did for people...so how can you hope to understand? It's fair for you to not want to go and take up this cause, it's not really worth fighting for...
but don't you criticize the Marine.
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To the kind friend who figured out the clues about who I am, Thank you for the kind words. I pray that you are doing well, and perhaps even remembering some of what I tried to teach you.
Overlordd, thank you for your kind words. My posts to you were very similar to some of the lessons that I tried to pass on to my kids ( I call the students that I had the honor of working with my kids, because I care as much for them as I do my own). Passion with action is empty, Idealism with out judgment and experience is dangerous. I pray that by the time you are my age, you will not have as many scars on your soul, but I hope that your life will be as interesting a mine has been so far. Your not much older than my kids, and you definatly have the passion & idealism. Those are wonderful qualities to have. My fear is that you may fall into the old trap of ? good initiative- bad judgment? Believe it or not I admire you, not many young people today are willing to make such a sacrifice as joining the military. Now that we have crossed paths, I would b remiss in my personal duty to not pass on some of what I have learned. Military leadership 101 is all fine and dandy, but it hardly scratches the surface of what those that have come before you have learned and paid for in sweat and blood. I would hate to think that somewhere down the line you found yourself on a dirt airstrip in some God-forsaken country with people with AK47?s trying to carve you a new one, and I didn?t take the time to pass on even a sliver of the knowledge and experience that I have gained, that bothers me. Since it is bloody ass early and I ?ve not slept much in the past few days, I?ll give you a few of the threads that are in my earlier posts. #1 NEVER ask your troops to do anything you are not willing to do yourself, It?s even better if you do right along with them. #2 If your going to fight: take a stand, dig in, hold on and give it everything you have and then some. #3 Your troops will not care what you know, until they know that you care. ( Your troops come first ALWAYS ) You asked the condition of my discharge: Honorable RE1A
Although I have a 10% service connected disability for having both of my eardrums blown out.
Deborah, you asked how I go them out, My meaning was a bit metaphorical. I took care of them as if they were my own children, I tried to pass on some of the hard lessons that I have learned in life, I pushed them to do their best ( not what I considered their best) , I got after them when they made poor choices, tried to help them learn form their mistakes, mostly I cared for them and because of that I was honest with them about everything. I stood by them, went to bat for them, and didn?t give up on them. Lord knows that there were many times when I wanted to, things were really shitty towards the end. My wife had a hard time understanding why I wouldn?t quit. She supported me, even though she was not happy with me a lot. How did I circumvent procedures, I put my own spin on the ?curriculum? I took what I call the Home Depot approach. I had a lot of tools and material to help them build anything that they wanted to in life, all they had to do was to pick it up and do it. Life is all about making choices, we make good ones and we are happy, we make bad ones and we find ourselves in times of troubles. The key is in learning how to make a choice, stick with it and handle the consequences. Behavior modification is a short term change, hell you can teach a horse to play the piano, f you shove enough voltage up it rear. The real lasting change is when you deal with a persons values and beliefs, mostly I focused on how they valued and believed in themselves. I tried to show them that they were all great kids, that I cared about them, and only wanted to help them see themselves in a better light, and how to make wise choices. As much as I taught them, they also taught me. Because of them I am a better father to my kids and a better husband to my wife. I am not going to bash on the school, because there is no point, all I can honestly talk about is what I personally did while I was there. Nor will I defend the school, there are still some great kids there, that I miss seeing everyday. The ones that are out now, if I hear that they are making poor choices, I?ll go to them and try and remind them of the lessons. There are some truly wonderful people there, I learned more from them than I can ever say. If some of them follow in my footsteps and continue what I started, the kids will do well and I will be grateful that I was able to touch so many lives.
I?m sure some will say that I am full of shit, that?s fine by me. I know and those that were there with me know the reality of it.
Semper Fidelis
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You are not full of shit. Please know that you are one of the few people from HLA that have truly touched my life. It was people like you that kept me trudging day after day at that place and I can't imagine being able to make the journey without you. Because of people like you I would go back to my dorm room and cry at night because I was so completely confused but also deeply touched that someone outside of my immediate family thought that I was worth something, . . . thought that I was good enough and that was such a new way of thinking for me. Thank you for teaching me how to live again.
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What an interesting thread.
I'm the parent of a kid who went through the HLA program. I've been trying to figure out who the "Marine" is.
The fact is that HLA had a number of "Marines." Counselors who truly cared for those kids. These people loved those kids to the point where their home lives suffered. I know because I was in contact with a few of them on a daily basis during my kid's stay there. It's hard to work with kids who have these kind of problems and NOT get emotionally involved.
My child is now at home and is now okay. This was a substance abuser (heavy drugs and alcohol) from middle school on. Many arrests. It went on and on. It got worse and worse. No one had to "escort" the kid to HLA, it was voluntary.
It wasn't easy there, and we all would have preferred normal high school. There were lots of conversations that began with "I'm okay now, ready to come home." That conversation started the first week.
But people like the "Marine" who didnt always agree with all of HLA's ideas (and I'm not talking about any kind of abuse - I talked to my kid and saw him all the time -- I would have known) he's sober and healthy now. Healthier than alot of the kids here at home who have never had the benefit of therapy.
So thank you, Marine, and thanks to the rest of the staff there who REALLY cared and REALLY worked these kids. You taught them well.
I'm sure I'll get attacked for this post. Whatever.
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I'm glad to hear that your child is doing well. I wish that every kid that went through the program would go home and do well. There are people there who truly care about the kids, we do get very attached to them, sometime to the point of getting into it with other staff who zero in on "my kids". I know that on a few occasions I did get into it we several staff, and a few others. For me, it was the right thing to do, and I didn't care about the consequences.
We become defacto parents to the kids, and it is hard to let them go, you worry about them, hope that they are making good and healthy choices, forming solid and realistic relationships.
For the student who has again given me such kind words, thank you.
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I am a parent of a kid who attended another program similar to HLA. I can also vouch for the many staff members who cared very deeply for the kids.
I know all the anti-program zealots on this forum can't stand to hear that there was caring and nurturing going on. The lessons weren't easy- the reason small things had consequences were so that these lessons could be taught in a safe and loving environment. I think The Marine would agree that in order to really understand how these programs work (no, not by brainwashing or harsh punishments) you need to understand how each level builds on the previous one. It is all about learning self-respect, honor and self-control.
Unfortunately, many kids slip back once they are out in the world. There is a high incidence of failure after programs. There is also a large recurrence of cancer after treatment. Does this mean the treatment is a waste of time? Of course not. You take your best shot, and places like HLA offer families that best shot.
:silly:
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actually, 2 people. I did the first one, someone else did the second.
PG 59/60 Haven/Metamorphosis
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PS that was to The Marine, in response to his last post.
PG 59/60 Haven/Metamorphosis
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I was there for 2 1/2 years and I just recently graduated. I had family issues. :flame:
pg 59/60 Haven [ This Message was edited by: thelma on 2005-08-26 10:28 ]
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Thelma: 2 1/2 years huh? How are you doing? Are you living back at home? Things ok with your family now? What can you tell us about that LONG stay?
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yeah I espically hated getting my picture taken in the fish bowl, but I can thank the marine for that. Im in college now and for the most part im great, someone told me once that there are three rules to follow and I think you should ask the marine what they are. [ This Message was edited by: thelma on 2005-08-26 10:56 ]
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On 2005-08-25 14:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"just to be sure,::hehehmm:: who was in the fishbowl, and who made the sign you can get bonus points if you know who the sign was given to."
I was in the fish bowl maybe I was just in a different part of the forum big brother[ This Message was edited by: thelma on 2005-08-26 11:10 ]
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Thelma--doesn't sound like you think the "marine" was such a grand, nice, fellow.
Glad you are in college and seem to be doing ok.
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No actually what I said was a private joke towards the marine. He was my counselor when I attended HLA. He is like a big brother that teases me and pulls my hair but helps me out and supports me when I need it, he's a great guy
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how's the job search going, Thelma?? you going to class and keeping out of trouble?!?
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yeah college is good, I attend all my classes no matter how early I stayed up and partied the night before. I dont have classes on fridays so I have a three day weekend. When I first got to college I was drinking an insane amount of alcohol but i've cooled off a bit. I think it was just the initial excitement of being on my own. I work for a place called panera bread. Overall life is good and for the first time in a long time im genuinely happy.
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"I attended HLA for a year, 1996-1997. In that time I experienced many of the allegations other previous students have made. In addition to those there were some relationships between military staff (those in charge of work detail and cals)and students, as well as allegations of sexual abuse made by at least one girl in which I roomed with in the dorms. No actions were ever taken. My parents were essentially conned into placing me into this program, and every time they would get ready to pull me out I would get placed on restriction in order to reinforce that I was "troubled" and needed more care. I was in some of the first groups at the program. Perhaps things have changed, but I doubt it."
Posted from another forum.
I hope this isn't referring to "The Marine." It seems there was some REALLY inapproprite "relationships" with students going on there.
No wonder there were "strained marriages"...
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That was not the marine, but there have been relationships that have gone between staff and students under the "radar". I'm sure many people will realize who I am when I say this but, I'm not ashamed to admit that I had one with an AC and Im still in a relationship with him. It wasn't right that it happened but I wouldn't change the person that I've grown into because of this relationship because of a code of ethics. Now I will say that there is a male staff still there that should be fired and many girls have talked about him trying to get them to do things but are either too ashamed or afraid to say something to the right people. The
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Wow. Some things never change, I guess.
So, you had a relationship with an AC while at HLA? How old was he and how old were you? Was it physical? How did you go about it (not looking for graphic info here, just sorta the "how you avaoided detection" stuff)?
Was he (your boyfriend) fired? Disciplined? Did anyone else know about it?
Who is the staff member there now that is trying to molest students? Is anything being done about it?
OK, enough questions for now. I'll wait for some answers...
Thanks.
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This is not a fucking support group... marine and parents, if you need support go to ST or something.
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Thats funny OL, Fornits is whatever you want it to be.
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On 2005-08-27 10:25:00, OverLordd wrote:
"This is not a fucking support group... marine and parents, if you need support go to ST or something."
Huh?
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okay OL then what is fornits for just a bash session? because it's not just that. Sorry but a lot of us dont exactly want to sit around and waste our lives trying to " get back " at HLA.
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I don't know why anybody would be shocked about relationships between assistant counselors and students. When you put a staff member who is maybe 22 or 23 yrs old around 17 and 18 yr old girls it's only natural for them to be attracted to each other sometimes. Inappropriate? Yes. An offense to be fired for? Yes. But illegal or considered child molestation? No. Same thing with young teachers and high school and college students. It happens in any environment.
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There are girls there as young as 12 or 13. What about them? You're talking like all of the girls are seniors in high school. That's not the case.
It's also more involved than just young, 22 or 23 year old men (who, by the way, are FULL GROWN men and have no business sniffing around a minor). There are staff there that are much older and playing the same game.
To me, any way you cut it up, it's predation. Whether the staff is 23 or 33 or 43. They use a position of power and control to take advantage of their charges. Let's not forget thet these people are supposed to care for these residents, nurture them, support them, not try to FUCK THEM.
I think your comparison to high school teachers or college professors is off base. These children were supposedly sent to HLA because they have "issues."
Many of the young girls (and that's what they are, NOT adults, and many function emotionally at a much lower level then their chronological age would suggest) have issues surrounding sexual abuse by adults and it happens to them all over again in place that's responsible for their welfare.
I underdstand what you're saying about these things happening, but the way you say it MINIMIZES the severity of the act. The act itself is compounded by the very nature of the relationship.
I do consider it child molestation, yes.
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I wasn't talking about those type of relationships. The only ones I have seen typed on here were between girls who were almost 18 and young assistant counselors, not between young teens and 40 yr old men. Do you have information that a staff or employee molested a 13 yr old student?
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I've been in contact with some young women who are preparing to report these events to police. It's forthcoming.
You're still justifying relationships between staff and residents. BAD BUSINESS.
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There should NEVER be "relationships" between therapists/counselors and clients of ANY AGES...that is HIGHLY UNETHICAL and a reason for any therapists/counselors to loose thier licenses.
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG!
Now put this in the context of a therapist and a minor child---and that is criminal. And a child under the age of 18 is just that: A CHILD!!!
There is no excuse what-so-ever for any therapist/counselor to act this way!
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You are confusing the issue Dysfunction. I didn't justify it, I said it was natural, as in, human nature. Would a normal young man of 22 be attracted to a normal young woman of 17 or 18 if they met in a social setting? Yes they would. The thing that makes it unethical is the role they were in. I think they should be fired for the relationship. But I don't think it should be considered a crime. Lots of young women over the thousands of years of civilization were attracted at the age of 17 to a young man of 22 and then later married to that same man for 60 years. Was he a criminal for that? I don't think so!
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AMEN
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IT is wrong, unethical for a therapist to engage in a relationship with a client. To engage in such a RELATIONSHIP with a MINOR is a CRIME, like it or not!
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In the state of Georgia the age of Consent is 16. If the 16 yr old enters into the relationship without force then it is not child molestation. It is statuatory rape, which is a misdemeanor. If a counselor enters into a relationship with a student, that person can be fired, or can have his license revoked. He/She would not, however, necesarilly be incarcerated for said misdemeanor. I am not sure that the state can actually enforce the statuatory rape charge though unless a parent or the school press for charges.
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Yes, the state can press charges with or without the parents' consent. That's why it's called "statutory rape." It means the parties involved consented to the act, but it's in violation of the state law.
That being said, it is rarely enforced by the state alone, as they would have no way to know the crime was committed without the typical reportage by the parents.
You also say that if the minor enters the relationship "without force," then it is not molestation. I would take a read of Georgia case law to see how the actual statute has been interpreted.
In NY, it is considered "force" if the abuser uses a postion of power or influence to victimize the child. I would say that someone who exercises daily control over every single aspect of a child's life (like a "TBS" counselor) would be in a position of power over that child.
In my opinion, this is child molestation.
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If the student was over the age of consent and was a willing participant in the relationship, it is not child molestation. A court of law would consider that statuatory only. Whether or not the relationship was between therapist/student does not necesarilly mean that person coerced or forced through their position to start that relationship. The student may have initiated the relationship. Not that the therapist should have pursued it. I am not condoning the relationships between therapists and students. I do believe they should be fired. But I don't think it should be considered "child" molestation if the "child" was almost an adult and the "adult" is right out of college. I started dating my husband when he was 23 and I was almost 17. And I am over 40 now.
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In many cases abuse is automatically implied if the balance of power is unequal- i.e. teacher/student, therapist/patient. It doesn't matter in the eyes of the law who initiated the relationship or whether it was consensual. I don't know Georgia law, but don't assume that the staff person is off the hook.
:silly:
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Were you institutionalized and was your husband your caretaker when you started dating?
You're comparing apples and oranges.
The VERY NATURE of the relationship (not two people with FREE WILL) makes it such that the young girl is not able to understand fully to what she is "consenting."
Again, any way you'd like to try to frame it up, the counselor is in a position of POWER and the PATIENT is in a position of vulnerability.
What you're failing to understand here is that these children were placed in a treatment center because they lacked the cognitive ability to understand the ramifications of the behaviors they were "consenting" to at home.
They chose to do drugs or have sex or what-have-you and their parents forced them into treatment because, in the parents' mind, they were not PREPARED OR ABLE TO CONSENT TO THESE ACTIVITIES.
How do they become prepared to consent after being institutionalized? Wheteher they were "forced" or "coerced" or even MANIPULATED into the "relationship" is immaterial, as they are not mentally or emotionally stable enough to GIVE CONSENT. That's the whole point. That's precisely why they were sent there in the first place.
You keep comparing INSTITUTIONALIZED PERSONS with NORMALLY FUNCTIONING PERSONS. Can you not see the difference? If you can't see that BASIC DISTINCTION you have no business interjecting an opinion.
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Perhaps I haven't been clear enough about how serious a matter this actually is. Let me provide you some facts.
Therapists, physicians, and attorneys are fiduciaries for their patients and clients, and this role prevents them from engaging in any activity that is not in the client's best interest. The law recognizes this. Patients or clients harmed by sexual exploitation may seek redress in civil suits for money damages, criminal sanctions, and licensing board actions. Presently, the issues hotly debated among attorneys involved in litigating sexual misconduct suits include issues over the time period within which the patient or client may file suit and whether the professional's malpractice insurance provides coverage for the misconduct.
Patients are harmed by sexual contact with their therapist. Studies of practicing therapists estimate that, in their observations, between eighty-seven and ninety percent of the patients who have had sexual contact with their therapist are damaged. Injuries include sexual dysfunction, anxiety disorders, psychiatric hospitalizations, increased risk of suicide, depression, dissociative behavior, internalized feelings of guilt, shame, anger, confusion, hatred, inability to trust and feelings of worthlessness. Other effects of the sexual contact included anger, shame, humiliation, depression, and anxiety. ***(READ CAREFULLY)In addition, for many victims, realizing that they are harmed and that the therapist was the cause of their harm takes years.*** Only four to eight percent of victims ever report the sexual contact.
There are special characteristics of professional-client relationships which place the professional in a position of ***greater power and authority than the client and, in essence, render it "unfair" for the professional to gain any benefit at the client's expense.*** Legally, many professionals--therapists, physicians, attorneys, professors--are said to stand in a "fiduciary" relationship with respect to their patients, clients, or students. "Fiduciary" is a legal term describing the relationship that exists when one party reposes trust and confidence in the other, more powerful party. ***In a fiduciary relationship, the more powerful party has a duty to act only in the trusting party's best interest.***
***********************************************
And regarding Georgia law, this is at least a misdemeanor, and if there was intercourse, a FELONY, regardless of the age of either of the parties. Read on...
Beginning in 1983, legislators in several states undertook an examination of sexual abuse by psychotherapists and other professionals to determine whether criminal sanctions were warranted. The first state to enact legislation criminalizing therapist-patient sexual exploitation was Wisconsin. The first felony statute took effect in Minnesota, followed by Wisconsin, North Dakota, Colorado, California, and Maine. Florida, ***Georgia***, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Dakota, New Mexico, Connecticut, Arizona, and Texas passed comparable legislation, with other states considering similar bills.
The exact penalties imposed by the statutes differ from state to state. Seven of the fifteen states that criminalize sexual contact between therapist and patient distinguish between sexual contact and penetration, with the latter offense typically classified as a felony rather than a misdemeanor.
*************************************************
And, as for so-called "consent":
Perhaps most significantly, the statutes completely eliminate consent as a defense.
READ AGAIN. "COMPLETELY ELIMINATE CONSENT AS A DEFENSE."
Now that you understand the law a little better, maybe you can start untying your personal pretzel-logic about patient-therapist relations.
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Than you Dysfunction Junction for you great explanation: IT IS WRONG, WRONG WRONG for any therapist to have a RELATIONSHIP with a client,,PERIOD---and any therapist, counselor who does not GET IT needs to get out of the business PERIOD. And if he/she can not GET IT, then IF THIS HAPPENS, he/she, the therapist or counselor who stoops this low need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and should loose the license to practice immediately.
TO EVEN THINK THIS IS OK is stupid!
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I agree that the actual therapist should not be in a relationship with the student because the counselor is with the sudent in reals and sees all sides and is more vulnerable. Louise what do you think?[ This Message was edited by: thelma on 2005-08-28 18:32 ]
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That is a definate hell no...ewww gross! :cry2: [ This Message was edited by: Louise101MA on 2005-08-28 18:35 ]
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Louise prefers short guys instead dont you!!! :lol:
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HEY NOW THELMA THATS NO FAIR! thats all behind me now...literly, but now i have my night in shineing armor ::heart:: :grin:
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sorry had to say it :wstupid: remember those good old days in the fishbowl :eek:
[ This Message was edited by: thelma on 2005-08-28 18:44 ]
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oh god...the fish bowl :silly:
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hey marine what do you think of the fishbowl
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i have to admit that while in the fishbowl i sat in the same seat everyday only for one reason...can anybody guess why?
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what do I get for answering this correctly? Let me guess sinc I only sat next to you every reals! AJH would walk by and you would switch glances. Maybe?
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[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-11-03 20:05 ]
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hey it's alright. OL do you get anything out of the fornit. Why did you origionally sign on?
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Where is Mrs. Grey? I miss her idle threats, lies, and other assorted retarded comments.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:51 ]
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[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-11-03 20:05 ]
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OL so you never actually attended a theraputic boarding school yourself. and if this is the case then, you should learn more and pay attention to those of us who have gone through the experience and come out the other side, just a suggestion.
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Thelma, what do you mean, "come out on the other side?" Do you mean that Overlord should support teen treatment centers?
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[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-11-03 20:05 ]
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High school sucks too should all of them be shut down too? :wstupid:
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[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-11-03 20:04 ]
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No I was saying that example: I went through HLA maybe I might have advice about HLA that might be helpful, You can choose to listen or not but I am getting fucking tired of reading about people complaining and not doing anything about it. This damn website is turning into a fucking whiny bitch fest and if I hear a comeback of oh and what the hell are you doing about it well let me tell you exactly what I am doing: 1- I am going to school full time taking 16 hours and I am getting all A's and B's, 2- I am working 28 hours a week to pay for my car payments and gas and as a backup for school incase my family backs out on paying for my college because that is a possibility, 3- I am also playing division 1 basketball which includes all of the practices, 4- I am moving on with my life and am god damn happy with it. Im doing something, what the hell are you doing?
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Filed a civil suit along with other parents against the owners of the SO-CALLED school that scammed us parents out of thousands of dollars for FRAUD for one thing. And the owner is facing a CRIMINAL TRAIL for criminal abuse against FOUR of the kids who were abused while under her care for another things. THAT'S what's being done for right now....so people do DO things beside "bitch" as you call it.
Glad you are doing something very positive with your life. That is great that you are moving forward. But, you are most probably doing this in spite of HLA.
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You must be talking about a different school other than Hidden Lake Academy. I think Thelma was referring to her alma mater in her post.
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I would be interested in anything concerning a civil suit or criminal charges against Bucci. Id also be willing to testify.
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[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-11-03 20:04 ]
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:52 ]
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Actually that was me who made that sign, everyone in my peer group got a kick out of it
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home depot.....my son told me about that. it was the first time i had a true glimmer of hope he was catching on and going to get better.
please write to me.
[ This Message was edited by: booboosmom on 2005-09-17 10:32 ]
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:53 ]
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hahaha Hidden Lake Academy I am going to shut them down all the bull shit they do I was in PG 70 thats peer group 70 come get me it is kc your manipulating, discrimination, mental and physical abuse, coersive training, non accreditated, fake certifications not being followed ohhhh boy you all fucked with the wrong people this time hey Bucci where is spooner?????
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:53 ]
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Hey marine counselor dude! I know who you are but I wont spill the beans because well that would pretty shitty of me. How are you doing? College is great and I need to quit procrastination and write a paper.
C. A. Wallace
p.s. all yall bitching about HLA after your done with really need to procure (SAT word) a life.
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Well, HLA obviously [sic] prepared you well for college.
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identify yourself, ARE YOU MARINE COUNSELOR GUY?
C. A. Wallace
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[ This Message was edited by: Jarhead6 on 2006-01-25 10:53 ]
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Is this Chad Wallace whats up man how you been
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Kcmoney, you are spouting off about HLA NOT being accredited, yet you post on another thread about Swift River being a "good school." Well...Swift River is not accredited EITHER. Your creditability is lacking a lot!
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i said nothing about swift River son fucking idiot
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I went to HLA too... Aften Thurston PG 54
anyone want to contact me, yahoo im is aftenthurston
not to get up here and turn it into more of a bitch fest than it already is, but i find it necessary to voice some of my opinions, after reading all of this.
Okay, so there are many people up here, that go and talk about HLA, mostly in a negitive way. How can someone, who has never been a student there, nor even been so much as on the campus, say things that they really don't know about? I'm most definently not saying that HLA is the best of places to be, for I would never wish to go there, but I just don't see how people make it out to be as horrendous as some do. I didn't have a pleasurable stay there; I went to Ridge Creek 3 times, Super Restrictions a few, stayed on restrctions constantly, and lost the best friend i could have ever met, who I mistakenly got fired. Although many things there are quite unfair, I don't see it as a completly bad experience. Maybe it's because I've reached a level of happiness,and self acceptance at this point in time, and learned that I did benefit slightly from the experience. It's all what you make of it. Nanette and her partner Cathy, two staff members at HLA, were the two most influential people in my life. I still keep in touch now, and they are people that I love very dearly. They made my stay at HLA a positive experience, in many ways. After they both resigned I lost a lot... it hurt me like nothing you could ever imagine. The dynamics of HLA did change a lot, seeing that many valued members of their faculty were lost. There are many memories that I could recall of HLA, both negitive and positve.
Again, to any of you that want to learn more about HLA, or any past/ current students that wish to talk for any reason, feel free to send me an email, or IM me [email protected]
Thanks
Aften Thurston
PG 54
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On 2005-08-25 10:07:00, monster wrote:
"yeah, I went through some pretty stupid counselors that would power tripp and say that she knew EVERYTHING. I got into the files and actuall found that one counselor got her degree online, how can you help us with no person on person experience"
Sounds like the security of confidential records is not at a premium there. It's pretty sad that these kids that are supposed to be supervised 24/7 can get into confidential records.
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...lost the best friend i could have ever met, who I mistakenly got fired. :???:
Nanette and her partner Cathy, two staff members at HLA, were the two most influential people in my life. I still keep in touch now, and they are people that I love very dearly. They made my stay at HLA a positive experience, in many ways. After they both resigned I lost a lot... it hurt me like nothing you could ever imagine. :???:
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what is that?? who is posting it, and what is the purpose behind it?
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Aften. Questions. Get to it.
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Robert. Shut up. Get a life.
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On 2006-01-02 18:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert. Shut up. Get a life."
5 words sum it up ! :lol:
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On 2006-01-02 18:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert. Shut up. Get a life."
Aften honey I dont understand. Why are we now hiding under the brown paper bag. All you could talk about before was how massive your testicals are. Now not only are you afraid of a couple of questions but you wont even grace us with one of your two user names?
Why Aften why?
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On 2006-01-02 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-02 18:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Robert. Shut up. Get a life."
5 words sum it up ! :lol: "
Interestingly enough that was six words. Thanks for playing Short Bus.
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oh, robert dear, i'm not hiding from anyone. i merely forgot to login... why would i ever try to hide from you, and your silly ignorance??
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I dont know tuna fish, Im glad we could clear that up. The question still remains though, if you have nothing to hide why operate under two user names and then lie about it? Also why are you still afraid to answer those questions?
I mean they are directly related to your own comments. I would think a person could back up their own statements.
I guess you just arent capable. :roll:
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Oh and just because I know you'll ask here you go...again.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =30#155662 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12971&forum=41&start=30#155662)
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On 2005-08-25 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Most of us are reluctant to post openly, those that have usually are visited by process servers. The school watches these boards, and tend to go after people who try and break thier rice bowl."
and they troll and make a mess out of the board to try to bury what they don't want seen.
they also encourage patients to come on and post garbage to keep any real information from being easily found and viewed. :roll:
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On 2006-01-03 04:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
and they troll and make a mess out of the board to try to bury what they don't want seen.
they also encourage patients to come on and post garbage to keep any real information from being easily found and viewed. :roll: "
Nah, that only happens on censored fora. No one has ever deleted any posts here so its all there to see. Can you say the same about the other HLA fora?
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On 2005-08-25 09:16:00, SHH Anon Classics wrote:
"Dysfunction how long ago did you work there and for how long? "
But I thought you knew? I thought you know me, met me, and worked with me?
If not, why do you keep insisting you do or did?
My, how your story changes based on your needs at the moment, eh? :???:
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Robert can I hold you to your statement.??
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Robert,
Why have you not filed a suit against HLA?
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On 2006-01-22 21:35:00, juniper2 wrote:
"Robert can I hold you to your statement.??"
Which statement would that be?
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On 2006-01-22 21:40:00, juniper2 wrote:
"Robert,
Why have you not filed a suit against HLA?
"
Ive been asked not to discuss the specifics of anything to do with that. Sorry.
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So if you worked there over 10 years ago...what makes you think you know what goes on now? I am not trying to start an argument...I just would like to know what makes you so confident in knowing everything that you put up on these boards...if you aren't there to see or experience it first hand. You seem intelligent enough not to believe every line of b.s. that gets thrown at you
209
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On 2006-03-21 09:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So if you worked there over 10 years ago...what makes you think you know what goes on now?
Same way I know that my ex is still kicking his dog.The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.
--Thomas Jefferson
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On 2006-03-21 09:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So if you worked there over 10 years ago...what makes you think you know what goes on now? I am not trying to start an argument...I just would like to know what makes you so confident in knowing everything that you put up on these boards...if you aren't there to see or experience it first hand. You seem intelligent enough not to believe every line of b.s. that gets thrown at you"
If you're talking to me, I can say with certainty what actually goes on there because my contacts (and one of my friends) still work there.
If you think I believe every random story coming from there, I don't. I carefully vet the information I get and check with sources. Keep reading for a while and you'll see. Go back in these threads and see what kind of names I've been called and how I've been labeled a "lying disgruntled ex-employee."
Please take note that every single thing that was deemed "a lie" by HLA supporters has actually been true. This holds for everything from the death of the RCA project to the lawsuits filed against children and former staff. Every single claim I have made has been verified and documented.
Nearly as important as having contacts inside is understanding the philosophy of the program and the attitudes of those who administer it. I seriously doubt that any kid or parent has a grip on what these people are like the way I do. I wrote the policy and procedure manuals for HLA. I understand the thinking behind those policies and procedures, as they were explained to me directly by the founder.
What you have to understand is that the faces have changed, but the program hasn't. It's just administered by new recruits. Therefore the same type of incidents happen again and again, only the names change.
If there's anything specific you'd like to talk about, please ask and I'll do my best not only to explain it, but to explain the thought processes/policies behind it.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-03-21 14:05 ]
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Thank you for your thoughtful reply Disfunction Junction...you were the one that I was speaking to.
I am curious if the policy and procedures have changed since you drafted the first one. Also, what position did you hold there?
Thank you for your time
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Is there any professional literature, that you are aware of, that would support the notion that denial of or limiting of food is therapeutic?
What genre of psychology did this come from?
How would Skinner analyze this?
Would Erikson go for it?
Are state regulators, who prohibit this, behind the times?
Are programs on the cutting edge- having discovered what it really takes to 'turn a kid around'- and waiting for the masses to catch up?
Any research into this method of modifying behavior?
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On 2006-03-21 10:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thank you for your thoughtful reply Disfunction Junction...you were the one that I was speaking to.
I am curious if the policy and procedures have changed since you drafted the first one. Also, what position did you hold there?
Thank you for your time"
I know that "on paper" the policies and procedures have changed. It has also been reported by former employees that policy and procedure are rarely followed and in some cases thrown out the window entirely - as in the case of restraints or dealing with suicidal ideation.
I was a member of the counseling staff and unofficially (not a job title) "assistant planning director."
If you'd like to talk further, please get a username and PM me at your convenience. I'll be happy to answer your questions or refer you to someone who can do so. You can still post anonymously here, but you'll need a username for PM's.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-03-21 11:53 ]
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If you'd like to talk further, please get a username and PM me at your convenience. I'll be happy to answer your questions or refer you to someone who can do so. You can still post anonymously here, but you'll need a username for PM's.
I will work on doing that...I do have several questions, but I really appreciate you being forthcoming and taking time to answer me.
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On 2006-03-21 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you'd like to talk further, please get a username and PM me at your convenience. I'll be happy to answer your questions or refer you to someone who can do so. You can still post anonymously here, but you'll need a username for PM's.
I will work on doing that...I do have several questions, but I really appreciate you being forthcoming and taking time to answer me."
What is your connection to HLA?
For what purpose are you seeking this information?
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sounds Like bucci trying to trap you DJ
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Sorry that I can't be more clear...Anon and D.J...I am just doing a little research on my own.
I am not trying to trap anyone...I haven't asked any questions that anyone at HLA probably doesn't already know...I just want some straight answers, that's all.
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On 2006-03-21 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds Like bucci trying to trap you DJ"
Look, I already (obviously) know that I am dealing with an HLA employee here. They all post from the same IP address.
That being said, as long as the conversation remains civil and productive, I'm glad to continue.
As far as being "trapped" is concerned, I've done absolutely nothing tortious or criminal so there's nothing to be trapped for.
I've said all along that I have no agenda other than advocating for better care of the children HLA serves. To that end, I have expressed what I know to be true and factual. I'm not engaged in muckraking.
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I was making reference to another posting when someone else said that you were being trapped. I was not alluding to making you feel that way. Of course you know where this is coming from, anyone can figure that out. I will be contacting you via pm very soon.
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What is all the 'cloak and dagger' stuff...?
You are obviously an employee of HLA, although
there are not many left with any ethics...The
young staff don't have a clue, and when they do, they are gone...So, one would assume that you are an 'olde'.. let's see..Charles Cates,Jeff Halloway, John McMillon,Klee Hall,Clay Erikson,
Richard Prow...??? If you have questions, why don't you contact Bill Gray or Clarke Poole?
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Juniper-
Look,I am trying to be curtious. I am not addressing you- there is only one person on here that I am interested in talking to.
I do apologize for what you see as a "cloak and dagger routine", however this really doesn't concern you.
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Then, you should not be addressing this on an open forum.....Anything having to do with HLA
concerns all of it's 'Survivors', both parents and their children...I, mean, dah, that is why we are all here..
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Also, one thing for sure, If you get in touch
with Clarke Poole, you shall have no choice, but to identify yourself...Bill Gray is a possibility,too. If you are not him...
too
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I just recently broke up with a staff aftre a 3 year relationship. I am a prior student. some of you may be able to recognize me by my name or prior posts.
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just to clue you in I became a marine as well
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Welcome back Thelma. Been a while. How's life, other than the break up?
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Thelma, did the relationship begin during or after your time at HLA?
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I am doing quite well. I began this relationship while in HLA. Sorry but for confidential puropses I will not directly say my name nor his.
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Perfectly understandable.
I think the bigger issues is the prohla people recognizing this sort of thing does in fact go on.
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Yeah they need to open up their eyes and realize that shit does happen and maybe thats their fault and maybe its not but it does happen.
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Thelma,
Wasn't that guy fired when HLA found out what was going on? I can't remember.
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No actually he quit because his roommate got fired it wasin't smart to stay anymore since he lived so far away
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wow you guys are rediculous. wow.
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what exactly does wow your ridiculous mean? Everybody makes mistakes in their life.[/quote]
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what exactly does wow your ridiculous mean? Everybody makes mistakes in their life.
Thelma, would you be willing to tell your story to a reporter covering HLA? PM me if you'd like contact information.