Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 10, 2002, 04:53:00 PM

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2002, 04:53:00 PM

Hello. I am a recent graduate of Pathway Family Center. I posted a short message the other day. I was a client at PFC fo 26 months which, amazingly, is about average now. I can't even begin to explain the problems Pathway caused for me while I was there and now that I am out. Pathway promised my parents a cure, and desperate, they took it. From what I read about Straight, Pathway sounds exactly the same. Clients are still restrained if they try to leave ("cop out") There was a brief break when a client his a staff member and when the police were called, the officer said he had every right to his the staff member, and seeing as they are not a detainment program or a jail, he has every right to leave. Since I have left though, clients are once again forced to stay. "Phaser rooms" are still alarmed, houses still locked, and there is no privacy whtsoever. I saw many other interesting things happen there that I am sure could shut this program down if the right people heard about it. Groups are very often run be "peerstaff" (former clients of the program.) Parents are still billed for these groups even though the peerstaff are not qualified and it is illegal to be billed for any therapy given by someone without qualification. When audits would come up, staff would be in a mad rush filling out billing sheets and to hide the fact that parents were getting billed for groups not run by therapists, qualified therapists would sign the sheets. The clients that are accepted into PFC seem to have less and less problems with each new arrival. Many of the kids obviously don't need drug treatment and many need other programs. It is very obvious that PFC will use any excuse they can to get concered parent's money. One client was intaked for smoking marijuana four times and drinking four times! They told him he was a drug addict and after 16 months in the program, he believed it! There was a situation where a peerstaff slept with a client, and Pathway did everything they could to keep her quiet, and no parents were told. Their excuse was that it would get too many clients worried. The truth is they would have been screwed if the media or and rehab regulating program would have found out. There is also a PFC in Indianapolis. They have already had lawsuits brought up against them for denying the clients food, abuse and things like making them walk in the snow with no shoes. The Pathway in Southfield does a good job of watching their backs, because they cut off communication with anyone who questions their ways or anyone who pulls from the program or isn't willing to follow their rules. Many graduates and parents are convinced that Pathway saves lives, but I believe that some degree of brainwashing does on on there and for some it takes longer for it to wear off. For some others, it never does. I graduated doubting a lot that went on there, but I still supported it until I got into the real world and realized that they had filled my head with a bunch of shit. Well, there is much I could write, but it's exam week, and I need to study. Thank you for listening, and I really appreciate this site. EMSR

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on December 10, 2002, 06:07:00 PM

Good to hear from you again. There are things we can do about PFC. Just getting the word out, showing other recent clients that you can do that and not be struck by lightening, is worth a lot by itself.

If you're busy with finals, then by all means, I think you should attend to that first! If you're so inclined at some point in the future, there are some other things we can do to help expose PFC for what it is.

Here are some low-demand activities that can't hurt.

Talking to the media sometimes seems like talking to a wall. They don't always even acknowledge corespondence, espeically if the viewpoint contradicts their editorial policy (or that of valued advertisers) but if they continually get letters carrying similar viewpoints, eventually they have to take the issue seriously and look into it.

So any time you see PFC getting free publicity, you can take a moment to write to the editor, broadcaster, journalist and fill them in on the other side of the story. If it's a letter to the editor, most publications are very OK with using a pen name so long as you provide a valid phone number to verify permission to reprint.

You can also let the rest of us know about it so we can drop them a line as well. Our viewpoint won't carry anywhere near the weight yours does because most of our experience with that particular cult happened a decade or more ago under a different corporate name run by different individuals. But it never hurts to pile on and get the media interested.

If you're inclined to get more involved than that, report those sobs for the fire code violations, false imprisonment and other violations. Bear in mind that if you make a formal complaint, that implies your willingness to follow it through with depositions, possibly court testimony and all the backlash that might result from it. So no one can tell you whether or not it's worth the trouble for you personally.

Ever wonder about all the splits and pull-offs? How they're doing? Where they've landed up? If you're inclined to, try looking some of them up. Just one of those "the more the merrier" things. Some people say it's a big help just to have contact with someone else who understands the experience and won't look at you like you think you've been abducted by aliens. Also, some number of those people might be inclined to take legal action, work with journalists or even picket open meetings, show up at speaking engagements to offer a different view of the Program... ya' just never know.

The sadist cannot stand the separation of the public and the private; nor can he grant to others the mystery of their personality, the validity of their inner self...in order for him to feel his maximum power, he wants the world to be peopled with concrete manipulatable objects...
-- ERNEST BECKER, The Structure of Evil, 1968.

Title: Story
Post by: kpickle39 on December 10, 2002, 08:58:00 PM

David Key? If so, could you tell me a bit about your impression of David. I know David from another life; in fact, we lived together for over 2 years during our time at straight. you can email me off line if you would like. my address is kpickle39@aol.com

Glad you made it through - you are a survivor now. Welcome to the "club"

What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson

Title: Story
Post by: wesfager on December 11, 2002, 03:37:00 PM

Dear Anonymous,

Thank you for posting about Pathway. I am researching Straight and its legacy programs at http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com) . Could you please email me at wesfager@thestraights.com .

Thank you,

Wes Fager

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2003, 07:07:00 PM

I am interested in your story. I, like yourself, do not feel comfortable disclosing my identity. However, I would like to hear more of what you have to say. What your experience was like, and how it is for you today. I do not have a hidden motive and have every intention of respecting what you share. Let's just say that some of the things you disclosed sound familiar to me. I look forward to your response.
Thanks

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2003, 07:09:00 PM

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on January 06, 2003, 09:54:00 PM

I'm sorry this stuff sounds so familiar to you. And I'm glad you found us. Whether you decide to attach your name publicly to this weird little chapter in our shared history or not, I'm glad you came along. It'll take a thousand voices to tell the story.

India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2003, 11:49:00 AM

Hello,

It's Mary again. I just read your other post and replied. I will reply to this one too! :razz: I am really wanting to talk to you about PFC. I also ask that if you have any documents that you would like to share with me , please contact me at Macpurple77@aol.com. I am very interested in speaking with you.

Sincerely,
Mary
Straight, Inc. Survivor

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 18, 2003, 09:43:00 AM

International Survivors Action Committee is currently in need of information like your story. There is a state agency interested in hearing your story , ISAC will put you in touch with the appropriate state agency that is investigating them

Please contact us at
isac@tampabay.rr.com
or call
727-596-7118

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2003, 12:24:00 AM

Hello!

My name is Mary. I am williny to talk to you if you are willing to talk to me. You can privately contact me at Macpurple77@aol.com, please put in te re: fornits story. There is an orginization that is trying to help close these abusive drug rehabs, we need your story and there are a few other things that I would like to ask you,nothing personal. There are things that we all can do to help to make sure that others do not have to go through what we did.
I understand how hard it may be to tell your story and I give you a lot of credit for telling your story.

Sincerely,
Mary
Plymouth StraightsSurvivor
90'-92'

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2003, 09:00:00 AM

I too was at Pathway, as a parent, and I?m not sure where you are getting all your details. First, Pathway does not guarantee a cure, but rather offers a treatment model that focuses on developing honesty about using drugs and rebuilding self-esteem. The alternative for us was to watch our daughter continue to make poor choices, resulting in damage to herself and others. I wanted to find help before she ended up in jail, or worse, before she died. Pathway is more than just a detox center, which most short-term programs are limited to. For some, a short-term program is all that is required. Other clients, like my daughter, have been in and out of numerous ST centers with no recovery. At Pathway, our daughter gained a realization of the unacceptable behaviors and attitudes that accompanied the drug use. Clients learn to accept and appreciate themselves, while maintaining a healthy, drug-free lifestyle. This extensive process requires more than 30 days for the client to make the life changes.

I have read many of the posts throughout this BBS and others, and am disturbed with the physical abuse described at other programs. I would never condone such treatment under any circumstances. I wholeheartedly support actions against any organization that promotes such abusive practices. During my daughter?s enrollment at Pathway, I never saw the things described on this BBS about the Straight programs. So I take exception to your claim that Pathway ?sounds exactly the same (as Straight)?. Granted, Pathway is not a picnic. It takes work by the child and also by the parents and siblings. There are procedures in place to protect the client from themselves ? that is, deciding they don?t want to recover, and prefer to leave the program and return to their previous irrational and destructive behavior. In that respect, Pathway is responsible to have procedures in place to mitigate client elopement. Our family was looking for help with our daughter?s downward spiral and her abusive behavior in our home. Intuitively, a change would not occur with just a ?picnic?. We anticipated that the process would require commitment and work on our part. We wanted our daughter protected from her destructive behavior and other druggie friends abusing her. Likewise, we saw Pathway as an alternative to doing nothing, and just letting our daughter continue to decline and most likely die at an early age, or at best, live a sad, hopeless life.

You claim ?there is no privacy whatsoever?. Is that really the case? Initially, when you came to Pathway, the immediate focus became you and the underlying emotional issues that contributed to your substance abuse. From the beginning, you may not have had complete privacy because without structure and supervision, your tendencies could have been predicted to do whatever necessary to get back to your drugs. Eventually, after making changes, you received privacy and other privileges ? even returned to school (unsupervised) and sought out employment (unsupervised). But by that time, you were able to make better choices for yourself. That is, to remain sober and focus on becoming a productive citizen, without being destructive to yourself and others. So you did have privacy.

You state that a police officer said a Pathway client ?had every right to leave?. Maybe so, maybe not. Pathway?s policy is that a client may be clinically discharged, and is usually referred to another facility as determined by clinical advice. Also, a parent may take their child from Pathway against clinical advice. Clients may not discharge themselves unless they are age 18 and not court-ordered to complete the program. If they are under age 18, their parents determine whether they remain in treatment. If the client is 18, they are free to leave the program if they choose.

You claim that groups are often run by peer staff, even though they are not qualified. In reality, peer staff may be in charge of running selected groups with clinical staff supervision. Regardless, a number of peer staff are qualified because of additional education and certifications obtained. But you would not have known that.

You state that the PFC in Indianapolis has ?had lawsuits brought up against them for denying the clients food, abuse, and things like making them walk in the snow with no shoes.? Please provide case details of these lawsuits for reference. That is impossible because they do not exist.

I celebrate the liberties and freedoms our country provides. But with those liberties comes a responsibility. Your post contains numerous inaccuracies because you did not have adequate information. Or, it contains untruths because you decided to ignore the truth and slam a recovery program that has helped many families. I take exception to your categorical classification of Pathway as ?exactly the same? as the other Straight programs. Think about it. If that were in fact the case, any independent investigation would quickly revoke the accreditation.

Clearly, this BBS provides a convenient forum for anyone to ?slam? any of the treatment programs mentioned. Some maybe are deserving. However, my experience with Pathway was beneficial for me, my daughter, and my family. I am thankful for the relationships and healthy behavior re-established through the Pathway program. I am fearful and sad of where we would be had Pathway not been available for us. I realize that Pathway is not ?perfect?, nor is any other organization. However, I prefer to focus on the positive aspects of Pathway, while encouraging improvements where necessary. Consider the many clients and families like mine that received much benefit from the Pathway experience. Likewise, there are other families seeking help that may have exhausted their options. Pathway can help, because I have experienced it.

K

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2003, 09:56:00 AM

Can you offer proof that the peer staff counselors have certifications? Ask to see thier certifications, what schools they recieved thier training from, etc.,....you may be surprized at what you don't find. Also, how long have you been involved with pathway? Your daughter, is she still in treatment? How long? Remember, the reason Pathway is in business is not because they're loving people who care about children so much that they've dedicated thier lives to "saving" them...Pathway is in business for THE BUSINESS OF MONEY...it is a company like any other. I respect you're devotion to your daughter. As a mother I understand willing to do anything to protect your child. But you must understand, programs like these have gotten very good at convincing intelligent people like yourself that thier way is the ONLY WAY. It's not. No matter what you think of what I've wrote hear, please consider one thing out of all this: Consider how long you're daughter has been involved with Pathway, in treatment or as a graduate...How much of teenage life is being spent wrapped up in the life of pathway? Will she ever be free from the place, or will they keep her obligated to work for them...into the future. I know many people who, 15+ years later, went in to similar programs and never left. Just be careful. Please.

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2003, 10:39:00 AM

Yes, I was able to see peer staff certifications. They are authentic.
My daughter is no longer in treatment. She now has three wonderful children, and is giving back in the community. She does speaking engagements at schools to tell her story. She is very relatable to teens, because she has ?been there, done that?, and her life is no longer consumed by the desire for drugs, incarcerations, and estrangement from her family. She is happy and loves life. This is quite a contrast to the daughter I had before Pathway.

You may believe that Pathway is ?in business FOR THE MONEY?. In reality, Pathway must have money to cover operating costs. It would be unlikely that virtually all facilities would be donated, and every staff member would volunteer 100% of their time to provide the services at Pathway. Accordingly, clinical fees are structured as reasonably as possible to cover those costs. For-profit companies strive to increase their profit to enhance their equity and/or stock price. Pathway chooses to keep fees as low as possible for affordability, and often operates near breakeven.

I don?t believe that I was convinced by Pathway that it is the ONLY way. However, I was running out of options for helping my daughter. After several short-term recovery centers at $1000/day, and private counseling, I was giving up hope. Pathway gave me another option. Based on my experience, I feel I was not naïve and had my head in the sand when considering Pathway. Frankly, as a parent, I was more concerned with my daughter?s outcome if I just gave up and did nothing more. I was fearful of the likely result, and chose yet another treatment program (Pathway), just hoping that it could help where the others did not.

As for whether my daughter is ?free of Pathway?, yes. She is not ?obligated to work for them.? She has graduated and is doing very well. I am so proud of her. However, she continues to be grateful for her recovery, and that Pathway helped her through this difficult time.

K

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on February 26, 2003, 07:10:00 PM

But she's still doing recruiting work. Probably for nothing.

Sit yourself down one day and count up the expenses that you know of and the income that you know of.

There's the building (likely paid off or partially or wholely donated) the lights, phone and heating bills and office supplies. No overnight housing, feeding, clothing, medical, field trips or any of that. No advertising or marketing, your kid is doing that for free and I suspect you donate a good deal of time to that effort too. Somethings never change. So, on the layout side, we're talking about just the building and (some) payrole (aside from the 'volunteer' staff hours) and liability insurance.

On the income side, there are the client fees, likely some grant money certainly donations and fundraisers. If you add it up, you'll likely find that somebody's making piles of money from this.

But that's not the major cost to you and your daughter. The major cost has to do with betrayal on a very primal level. The daughter you bore and raised was, in your opinion, so completely unacceptable that she had to be broken down, made to denounce herself and then reprogrammed according to what you consider acceptable.

I see the parents' script hasn't changed any, either.

When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2003, 11:46:00 AM

I prefer to consider my daughter?s activities today as her passion for a better life than the one she had before, understanding the drug use as a primary cause for her prior destructive life, and her commitment to share her experiences to other young people that may already be in a similar situation as her past, or are progressing in the same direction. It is merely a contrast of her choices before and after Pathway, and the resultant lifestyle changes. Her objective is to provide education and a deterrent for young people at risk of substance abuse rather than ?recruiting? for Pathway. The best outcome is for a young person to never take the risks my daughter did. Besides, I doubt that her sharing with teens really has a ?recruiting? outcome, given that any teen in the audience already using (and in denial) is unlikely to rush home and request their parents take him/her to Pathway. Just as you have a passion for your beliefs based on your experiences and choose to speak out in support of your beliefs, so does my daughter.

As for the financial side of Pathway, I have been exposed to financial statements and independent auditor reports thereof to understand the facts. As a CPA I am confident of my understanding of revenues and operating costs. There are no ?piles of money? being made.

I understand from the tone of your 2/26 post here, and others throughout the BBS, that you and others have had very traumatic experiences at Straight and other programs. However, I also believe that all treatment programs are not the same. I have experienced a variety of substance abuse treatment programs, but I have not encountered the travesties cited against other programs on this BBS and The Straights site. That does not imply they did not happen. However, you and others posting on this BBS are claiming or insinuating that Pathway is the same as the programs you have experienced. From my experience with Pathway, I know that is untrue. Therefore, it begs credibility to accusations made against other programs.

You indicate, ?The major cost for me and my daughter is betrayal on a very primal level.? I disagree. As a parent, I have a responsibility to care and protect my child. I understand rebellious behavior, and initially, that is all I thought my daughter was going through. However, when her actions escalated to where school officials were calling me to the school, police action was involved, and she ended up in the hospital because of a suicide attempt, followed by an overdose, intuition told me this was more than just teenage hormones acting up. This was NOT normal behavior, and her actions were placing herself in great risk and possibly harming others. This was more than just smoking a casual joint. This became her way of life, because of the constant destructive behavior. Based on our situation, we could not be so naïve to think that this was just a ?phase? that our daughter was going through. There was much more to this problem. I chose to not be negligent and assume that everything would be ok without intervention. Instead, we had to seek help.

Today, my daughter has friends from her past that are no longer alive because of drug-using behavior. And others are in jail. It doesn?t take a brain surgeon to know that my daughter would very likely have ended up in the same situation without help. My daughter tells me that she would be dead, had we not found help for her. I see that you think this is just another ?parent?s script.? Go ahead and think that way. I know the truth and am very grateful that I did something to help my daughter instead of doing nothing and have lost her (physically and/or emotionally) permanently.

K

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on March 01, 2003, 03:45:00 AM

Well, CPA anonymous, I am sorry to hear of your daughter's dead friends. I have a memorial here dedicated to the scores of suicide victims (32) who, without STRAIGHT, INC and all of it's spawns, would still be alive today. Please do not patronize us anymore. We are in a different league here. You are still under the influence of STRAIGHT, INC, or Pathway, whatever, and just go on being happy in life until a few years from now when you join this board again seeking comfort from being duped. I enjoy peace, take this with some grit if you have to, ::puke:: but, after reading your sermon, I must say, you seem truly brainwashed. One day, all this will end, after Pathway and any other STRAIGHT INC spawn is closed and that treatment modality is banned.

MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2003, 05:37:00 PM

I too am sorry for the friends that died, and with no disrespect intended to those lives lost, how would someone know whether a suicide is directly related to one?s traumatic experiences at Straight, or that it was yet another victim of substance abuse? Substance abusers commit suicide, with or without Straight. Could that be the ?mind-raping? effect of the drugs.

Help me understand also, that since Straight was closed by court-action due to abusive, unscrupulous practices, why would any other ?Straight-like? treatment program by your claims deemed to be abusive in any manner remotely similar to Straight be allowed to operate? That is, the abuse of the Straight program and its closure would surely mitigate any licensing agency or accreditation organization from certifying yet ?another Straight by a different name?? For example, consider the impact of Enron bearing immediate added SEC scrutiny on many other companies, even those unrelated to Enron. Likewise, it would seem that after the Straight issues, those red flags would be up at all times, making it especially difficult for any substance abuse treatment program, let alone one with the same abusive practices as Straight, to be accredited or remain in operation? What has it been, 10 years since the last Straight program closed?

With some research, I learned that the CEO of Pathway had been in a Straight program as a parent with her child. By starting Pathway, the objective was to provide a 12-Step model with a caring treatment environment involving the entire family, not just a ?drop-off? program. I understand that the startup clinical director (Gwanny?) had also been at a Straight program and wanted to embrace changes, however she was terminated within the first two months after it became apparent her philosophy was not in line with the new program and new CEO.

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on March 01, 2003, 06:57:00 PM

I understand from the tone of your 2/26 post here, and others throughout the BBS, that you and others have had very traumatic experiences at Straight and other programs. However, I also believe that all treatment programs are not the same.

Please refer to the very first post in this thread. As you know, I have no firsthand information about Pathway, except for public records showing the history of the Program and how it derives directly from Straight, Inc. I never put forth that Pathway today was anything like Straight 20+ years ago. I only told my storyand invited others to do the same. What has happened, and I must admit that this has not been entirely unpredictable, is that recent clients and parents from PFC have read our stories and said "Oh my God! That's just about exactly what happened to me just a year or two ago."

I have no reason to disbelieve these people.

Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
-- Chuck Gauran

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on March 01, 2003, 07:01:00 PM

On 2003-03-01 14:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I too am sorry for the friends that died, and with no disrespect intended to those lives lost, how would someone know whether a suicide is directly related to one?s traumatic experiences at Straight, or that it was yet another victim of substance abuse? Substance abusers commit suicide, with or without Straight. Could that be the ?mind-raping? effect of the drugs.

The same way scientists figure out that a drug or a food cause a particular problem. You compare the outcomes of people subjected to the drug or food with those of people who have not been exposed to it.

According to Program doctrine, damned near everyone I ever knew needed to be in the program or they'd be deadinsaneorinjail within two years. But what has actually happened is that damned near everyone I knew in the Program are deadinsaneorinjail and everyone who did not recieve this kind of "help" have gone on to fairly normal, stable lives with families and children, businesses and careers.

It's really pretty simple.

...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason

Title: Story
Post by: Antigen on March 01, 2003, 07:05:00 PM

On 2003-03-01 14:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
With some research, I learned that the CEO of Pathway had been in a Straight program as a parent with her child. By starting Pathway, the objective was to provide a 12-Step model with a caring treatment environment involving the entire family, not just a ?drop-off? program. I understand that the startup clinical director (Gwanny?) had also been at a Straight program and wanted to embrace changes, however she was terminated within the first two months after it became apparent her philosophy was not in line with the new program and new CEO.

Do a little more research and you'll find that Melvin Sembler said just exactly the same thing about why he founded Straight, only he was talking about a kinder, gentler Seed. Melvin and Betty are still bragging to this day about what a wonderful program Straight was. Melvin is a 2 time GOP finance chair for all both Bush presidential runs. Betty helped put Jeb in the Fl governor's office and George in the Tx governor's office. Money says jump and politicians say "How high?". That's how they've been able to get away with these crimes just by changing their corporate names.

They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.

--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on March 01, 2003, 08:02:00 PM

How many questions are you allowed to ask and not be obligated to answer ones from others? I am full of answers for your questions, but you are still avoiding my questions. This is a typical behavioral pattern of a STRAIGHT, INC. based program brainwashee, and may seriously damage my willingness to communicate on the level with you in the future. You have a wealth of information hiding behind that anonymous face of yours here and are doing very little to help silence the fears that the Pathway program is a STRAIGHT, INC spawn. Being the fair minded person that I am, I will answer one more of your questions as I await some answers from you. In 1984, one client I sat next to did not have a drug problem, was kept on 1st phase for 2 years. As soon as he turned 18, he withdrew, went off the edge of a high rise balcony and died. How could this not be STRAIGHT, INC. related? You tell me. This is not the only case. Not to mention all of the attempts that occurred and went untreated, unreported, etc... Put faith in yourself and email me. We can talk over the phone if you wish. I am very interested in learning more about your experience. Please understand that continuing to avoid the issues only deepens my resolve to believe Pathway is just another STRAIGHT INC spawn.

MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2003, 09:46:00 PM

I am looking Pathway up for a friend, I came across these posting's. OMG the mother sounds like shes really a employee of pathway, if her story is somehow true ,I pity both her daughter and my friends brother. Pathway sounds like Nazi Germany. Never should children be put in a place were mind control is the order of the day. I belive these kids need help,but I think Pathway and places like them are not the help parent are seeking.

Title: Story
Post by: ramprato on March 02, 2003, 07:59:00 AM

Thank you for your concern. Regretfully, related places like Pathway and Straight have enticing the parents (and their $$) into their program down to a science. If you happen to work in the front room of one of these places, it is quite easy to grab that dough.

First, you automatically know that the parent has some concerns about their kid as most parents do, or the parent wouldn't be there in the first place, so why not play off of the parent's worst fears? Step one is to make the parent feel at ease. If the parent is partaking in the blame for family troubles, rush to erase that blame, make it the kid's fault and magnify the kids problem. This can be accomplished by using a 'questions' form that these boiler rooms need to bring in the money. Generally, the 'questions' form asks 15 to 20 "does your kid blah blah?" .. and if you answer even ONE question with a yes, that kid needs help.

Here is a questionnaire that Straight Inc. used during it's 17 year operation from 1976 to 1993 before it was shut down due to its mounting child abuse lawsuits, notice how it's always about "behavioral problems" in teens, like there are NO adolescents out there that DON'T act out from time to time:

"The organization Straight, Inc., has produced the following checklist of eighteen warning signs of alcohol or drug abuse:

School tardiness, truancy, declining grades
Less motivation, energy, self-discipline
Loss of interest in activities
Forgetfulness, short- or long-term
Short attention span, trouble concentrating
Aggressive anger, hostility, irritability
Sullen, uncaring attitudes and behavior
Family arguments, strife with family members
Disappearance of money, valuables
Changes in friends, evasiveness about new ones
Unhealthy appearance, bloodshot eyes
Changes in personal dress or grooming
Trouble with the law in or out of school
Unusually large appetite
Use of Visine, room deodorizers, incense
Rock group or drug-related graphics, slogans
Pipes, small boxes or containers, baggies, rolling papers or other unusual items
Peculiar odors or butts, seeds, leaves in ashtrays or clothing pockets. "
Source:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:-R ... n&ie=UTF-8 (http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:-R97QLG9pUsC:www.probe.org/docs/drugabus.html+%22Straight+inc.%22+questionnaire+parents&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

All you have to do is answer just ONE of those questions and YOUR kid is now an automatic lifetime drug addict. They make it a point to blame your kid for everything that was ever 'wrong' in your family. They dismiss any of the parent's guilt or responsibility of their kid's issues whether or not those issues are valid. They are at that point very eager to know what kind of health care coverage that parent has and if they could just run their policy number. while all that is going on, the staff are bringing "happy parents" to talk to that parent still questioning themselves if they are in the right place..These "happy parents" tell of how won-der-ful their lives are since they placed their little Johnny or Suzie in " ** " and that they are no longer dealing with a "rebellious" teenager, and how the parent could have a wonderful kid like THEIRS if they just signed the papers.

Here is the PFC (a Straight Inc. spin-off) questionnaire, do you see any similarities?

http://www.pfcenter.org/warnings.html (http://www.pfcenter.org/warnings.html)

Here is the 'Kids Helping Kids' (another Straight Inc. spin-off) questionnaire, how about here? Any similar patterns?

http://www.kidshelpingkids.com/warningsigns.html (http://www.kidshelpingkids.com/warningsigns.html)

Most people I know have some of these traits once in a while. It doesn't make them users though, it makes them about human. Teenagers Have been "rebelling" since the beginning of time. Expressing independence is a must if the individual ever is going to have any hope into growing into adulthood. If that process is interrupted by using these twisted forms of "behavioral modification" such as PFC and Straight Inc. uses, then you run assured risk of permanently damaging that individual's mind for life. You turn their personality into mush, and if they are lucky, they don't kill themselves, they learn to find their way despite what happened to them in their mind rape mill. Now of days they find support though websites like these.

Thanks for your post.......

Title: Story
Post by: ehm on March 03, 2003, 11:57:00 PM

Was there anything else going on with your family at the time that could have caused depression in your daughter? Everyone gets into some trouble in highschool, and kids dont just wake up one day with dyshedonia, and suicide attempts on the brain. How old was she? When was this? Drug abuse and depression are merely the outer layers. Mabye she'll try and talk to you about it in 10-15 or even 20 so you can be defensive. Or not...
Nice parenting.

"Behind each disfunctional child, there is a disfuntional reason."

Title: Story
Post by: lunababy on March 04, 2003, 10:38:00 AM

Hi I registered so no more anon post for me,I am the person looking up pathway for a friend. OK here goes, first I am mother of 2 kids now in their 20s and both have experinced depression, drugs,bad choises,bad grades,bad friends,lol everthing on your list and I'm sure more than once. Just as I did when I was teen /young adult.
I'm not saying it's right I'm saying it happend and it happends to us all. That being said, we dont all shove our childern in to mindfucking, antithinking,tourture programs.Most of us get through our rough patches w/out the aid of these nasty progroms(misspelling intentional)To the parents reading this, please think a minute, you raised your child you should know how to get that child though this, you wouldnt hand you child over to the nazis yould you ? It breaks my heart to read these post and know that all these kids have been abandond to what amounts to childabusers.

Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
--

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2003, 02:54:00 PM

You say:

On 2003-02-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I prefer to consider my daughter?s activities today as her passion for a better life than the one she had before, understanding the drug use as a primary cause for her prior destructive life, and her commitment to share her experiences to other young people that may already be in a similar situation as her past, or are progressing in the same direction. It is merely a contrast of her choices before and after Pathway, and the resultant lifestyle changes. Her objective is to provide education and a deterrent for young people at risk of substance abuse rather than ?recruiting? for Pathway. The best outcome is for a young person to never take the risks my daughter did. Besides, I doubt that her sharing with teens really has a ?recruiting? outcome, given that any teen in the audience already using (and in denial) is unlikely to rush home and request their parents take him/her to Pathway. Just as you have a passion for your beliefs based on your experiences and choose to speak out in support of your beliefs, so does my daughter.

As for the financial side of Pathway, I have been exposed to financial statements and independent auditor reports thereof to understand the facts. As a CPA I am confident of my understanding of revenues and operating costs. There are no ?piles of money? being made.

I understand from the tone of your 2/26 post here, and others throughout the BBS, that you and others have had very traumatic experiences at Straight and other programs. However, I also believe that all treatment programs are not the same. I have experienced a variety of substance abuse treatment programs, but I have not encountered the travesties cited against other programs on this BBS and The Straights site. That does not imply they did not happen. However, you and others posting on this BBS are claiming or insinuating that Pathway is the same as the programs you have experienced. From my experience with Pathway, I know that is untrue. Therefore, it begs credibility to accusations made against other programs.

You indicate, ?The major cost for me and my daughter is betrayal on a very primal level.? I disagree. As a parent, I have a responsibility to care and protect my child. I understand rebellious behavior, and initially, that is all I thought my daughter was going through. However, when her actions escalated to where school officials were calling me to the school, police action was involved, and she ended up in the hospital because of a suicide attempt, followed by an overdose, intuition told me this was more than just teenage hormones acting up. This was NOT normal behavior, and her actions were placing herself in great risk and possibly harming others. This was more than just smoking a casual joint. This became her way of life, because of the constant destructive behavior. Based on our situation, we could not be so naïve to think that this was just a ?phase? that our daughter was going through. There was much more to this problem. I chose to not be negligent and assume that everything would be ok without intervention. Instead, we had to seek help.

Today, my daughter has friends from her past that are no longer alive because of drug-using behavior. And others are in jail. It doesn?t take a brain surgeon to know that my daughter would very likely have ended up in the same situation without help. My daughter tells me that she would be dead, had we not found help for her. I see that you think this is just another ?parent?s script.? Go ahead and think that way. I know the truth and am very grateful that I did something to help my daughter instead of doing nothing and have lost her (physically and/or emotionally) permanently.

K

"

Quite frankly, as a parent, I find your story more of an explanation of why your daughter might have attempted suicide rather than an explanation of how Pathway allegedly helped her recover. I am a parent who never went to any recovery centre of the Straight variety, never sent my kids to recovery centre's and would never do so. My life has not been easy, and I am in a second career with 4 degrees and both careers have involved helping kids and families.
A vastly higher percentage of the population attempt, or at least seriously contemplate suicide at some point in life. I attempted at the age of 20. It was not until I was 26 that I experimented with marijuana. It was not until we started having trouble with my daughter when she was 15 that it was realised that I suffered from chronic depression. By this time I was 50. We went through a bad stretch when my daughter had a close friend commit suicide, following which she attempted twice. Through my professional organization we were able to access the best possible family counselling in our community. (the high school principal had urged us to examine a "tough love" approach which we found to be totally inappropriate).
Subsequently, my daughter made fully informed decisions about what drugs she would experiment with, used marijuana effectively for her menstrual cramps, and, very carefully with full knowledge of the possibilities has used ecstacy, GHB and LSD. I would say her use of these drugs has been hugely beneficial to her, as, like me, she suffers from a mood disorder. She now has a degree and is developing her own theories about consulting for organizations that practice a "harm-reduction" approach to drug use.
Lord Bertrand Russell who at one time was a persona non grata in the US, suggested moderation in all things as an antidote to the North American Puritanism that gave us prohibition, the Drug War George Dubya and Pat Buchanan.
Part of Russell's critique of the prohibitionists was their inability to recognise that not all use is abuse. This is the strongest argument for legalization. And to those parents who say, "But then,everyone would use them!" the answer is "would you?"
The problem the US faces is that the moral panic generated by the prohibitionists does generate a market for the moral entrepreneurs of Pathways and Straights to exploit. I doubt if those people can ever be convinced that not all drug use is abuse. But I do know this from experience. Had we panicked at my daughter's behaviour when she was 15 and turned her over to something like one of these adolescent treatment centres, she would not be the person I am so proud of today.
Drug use is NOT a primary cause of anything.
But the fundamentalist, self-righteous US administration's obsession with the drug war is the primary cause of the highest incarceration rate in the world, and the reason why so many boot-camps and treatment centres proliferate.

Title: Story
Post by: lunababy on March 04, 2003, 03:12:00 PM

thank you anon you took the word right oput of my head and wrote them down wonderfully thank you thank you thank you

America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg

Title: Story
Post by: glider on March 06, 2003, 12:29:00 AM

When I read your post, it gave me a pit in my stomach. Like your daughter, I went to Straight, changed my life, went from a C student to an A student, graduated, did numerous speaking engagements and praised what Straight had done for my family and me. I was in total denial of the psychological violence, constant coercion and intimidation that is the trademark of these programs and it caught up with me as it most likely will with your daughter. In fact, you probably wouldn?t even be here reading this post if deep down in your heart, you know there was something amiss with Pathway. I was so scared of doing the wrong thing or breaking a rule, which you know there are many, constantly being under intense peer pressure, family pressure, AA pressure and without any privacy, without being able to speak with my friends, my old teachers, my very own sisters, my previous community as a whole, I totally lost myself and become nothing more than a drone. So what if I was sober and received good grades? The best thing in life is finding out who you really are and having the freedom to do so and to follow your own dreams and passions. Real and genuine change and growth in a person comes from encouragement and a new understanding of yourself. Changes from coercion, intimidation and total psychological assault are disingenuous, superficial and ultimately meaningless. These centers attack the very essence of what it means to be a human being and an individual. Right now Russia is celebrating the 50 anniversary of Joseph Stalin, who protected his country from the Nazis and accomplished many great and wonderful things for his country. He was also a ruthless dictator and mass murderer and manipulated the public through the means of fear and intimidation. I?m sure there are many positive changes in your daughter as there have been for me also, but this will ends will never justify the means just like Stalin?s great accomplishments will never excuse his tyranny. Pathway, like Straight, is a tyranny and an embarrassment to the basic human and American values of freedom and democracy and dignity. I hope you find what you?re looking for at this site.
~John

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2003, 07:50:00 PM

On 2003-03-04 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote

"Quite frankly, as a parent, I find your story more of an explanation of why your daughter might have attempted suicide rather than an explanation of how Pathway allegedly helped her recover"

Why, because I ran out of options with her and sought to obtain expert help? Or, because I didn't choose to let her use as long as I was present?

Well, it sounds like you merely found a convenient way to rationalize your daughter's drug use. Your actions were akin to holding your daughter's hand over a hot stove burner to teach her that it will burn her, but she can still use it to make soup. (Except that stoves are legal). I wonder how your story would have turned out had your daughter actually died from her "experimental" drug use. First-time users have been known to die.

I chose a different approach, not to detach from my daughter, but to get her help. I'm not a clinical expert in the area of teen substance use, just like I'm not a cardiologist. I had reached my parenting and non-clinical limits on how to rationalize with a drug-using teen (it doesn't happen). I figured an expert could work with me and my daughter to make some breakthroughs.

You say,
"A vastly higher percentage of the population attempt, or at least seriously contemplate suicide at some point in life."

This is pretty vague. What is "vastly higher percentage"? Is there some clinical study you reference, or just pull this out of your air? Are you now trying to rationalize your own suicidal tendancies?

Ironically, I find that your version of justifying inappropriate actions is not dissimilar to how my daughter and other drug using teens attempted to lie, steal, and manipulate to get what they wanted - more drugs; but it was always someone else's fault when she got in trouble.

You say,
"Drug use is NOT a primary cause of anything."

Are you serious? I bet alcohol use and drunk driving don't cause huge loss of life either, right? Drug use caused a great deal of damage to my daughter and our family. Broken family relationships, incarceration, hospitalization, sleeping in a crack house. I submit that none of those would have occured if drugs had not been used to distort reality. Were there other issues? Sure, and those were addressed as a family at Pathway. But the fact of the matter is that my daughter's use of drugs impaired her ability to make healthy, rational decisions that would have otherwise kept her safe.

You and others are dead set on invalidating the benefits received by my daughter and the rest of my family from Pathway. It's as if you fear any positive results. Your pathetic response is simply, "well, hopefully your daughter will still talk to you in 20 years after she is no longer brainwashed." What crystal ball do you have? Perhaps in 20 years your daughter may realize what you did to her at 15, and the risk you placed her in by encouraging/assisting/condoning her own "experimental" drug use. Thankfully, it sounds like she's doing well in spite of your choices for her. I'm happy for her. I made different choices for myself and my daughter with positive results but you can't accept it. Although you wouldn't want to admit it, there are happy people out here that had to go through some tough times, and still do, but we made it and are stronger and better for it. I celebrate the recovery and reuniting of families as successes. But oh, I forgot, I'm "brainwashed".

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2003, 03:27:00 PM

On 2003-03-08 16:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"On 2003-03-04 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote

"Quite frankly, as a parent, I find your story more of an explanation of why your daughter might have attempted suicide rather than an explanation of how Pathway allegedly helped her recover"

Why, because I ran out of options with her and sought to obtain expert help?

No, because you went to the wrong experts i.e. drug warriors who believe that all drug use is abuse. It's not. Clearly, from what I've read about Pathways and everything that is Straight derived, the US led "war on drugs" is in itself a complete and utter failure. I suggest you read all 92,000 odd accumulated news items on www,mapinc.org and you might be able to get the picture.

Or, because I didn't choose to let her use as long as I was present? What drug are you talking about?

Most knowledgable professionals that I know would be more concerned about their kids smoking cigarettes than about them smoking marijuana. But they would not condone going to school stoned.

Well, it sounds like you merely found a convenient way to rationalize your daughter's drug use.

That's ridiculous. Using marijuana can be fun. When it is touted as "dangerous" by John Walters and the DEA the drug warriors lose all credibility . As for ecstacy, we had a death in our town that was attributed to Ecstacy. In fact, the individual who died was dosing himself with dextromethorphan for a cough when he took one pill. Deaths from E are rare and are attributable to heatstroke and/or lack of fluids and/or electrolytes when dancing. Knowledgable users will take care of themselves.
But I go on, you can get accurate information on most drugs by going to http://www.erowid.org (http://www.erowid.org). I tend to give this some credibility, because a police toxicologist gave me that information.

Your actions were akin to holding your daughter's hand over a hot stove burner to teach her that it will burn her, but she can still use it to make soup. (Except that stoves are legal).

My daughter has used drugs, fully aware of the real dangers they posed. You don't ban stoves because you might get burned. Your argument fails.

I wonder how your story would have turned out had your daughter actually died from her "experimental" drug use. First-time users have been known to die.
See above. My daughter knew this before she used ecstacy. All things in moderation.
I chose a different approach, not to detach from my daughter, but to get her help.
You think I detached? I happened to realise that I would not be able to convince my daughter of anything she wasn't able to accept. I happen to have been involved in Juvenile courts and frequently witness the harm done by parents who "talk up" the sentences their recalcitrant youngsters might have. I've represented teens with problem parents
I had reached my parenting and non-clinical limits on how to rationalize with a drug-using teen (it doesn't happen).
Right
I figured an expert could work with me and my daughter to make some breakthroughs.
Wrong experts

You say,
"A vastly higher percentage of the population attempt, or at least seriously contemplate suicide at some point in life."

This is pretty vague. What is "vastly higher percentage"? Is there some clinical study you reference, or just pull this out of your air?
Actually, there are studies, and my wife worked with an organization that did some of the most advanced in N America.
Are you now trying to rationalize your own suicidal tendancies?
Now that is taking a personal moralistic tone. Depression is an illness or perhaps a chemical imbalance. Are you going to blame me for having the flu too?
Ironically, I find that your version of justifying inappropriate actions is not dissimilar to how my daughter and other drug using teens attempted to lie, steal, and manipulate to get what they wanted - more drugs; but it was always someone else's fault when she got in trouble.
There is ample evidence that where a harm reduction approach is taken to drugs, crime drops. The crimes you mention are at least as much a product of the Drug War as of the drugs themselves.

You say,
"Drug use is NOT a primary cause of anything."

Are you serious?
Absolutely.I bet alcohol use and drunk driving don't cause huge loss of life either, right?

But it's not the USE of Alcohol that is the problem here, it's the ABUSE. As I said, moderation in all things. I should mention here that neither of my children will drive after consuming alcohol. And their use of drugs is likewise responsible and controlled.

Drug use caused a great deal of damage to my daughter and our family. Broken family relationships, incarceration, hospitalization, sleeping in a crack house. I submit that none of those would have occured if drugs had not been used to distort reality. Were there other issues? Sure, and those were addressed as a family at Pathway. But the fact of the matter is that my daughter's use of drugs impaired her ability to make healthy, rational decisions that would have otherwise kept her safe.

But you see, your daughter (maybe) got into it uninformed! As such, I'll bet she would have gone places and seen kids taking pills or whatever, and just popped into her mouth anything that came her way. My son saw that sort of things and determined that he would try to educate people to look after themselves and reduce the harm.

Both of my kids use drugs, but there are some that they would NOT use. You see, the real futility of the efforts of the DEA (and NIDA to a degree) is that they treat all drugs deemed illicit equally seriously. Because your daughter realised that she was being lied to at one level, she was led to believe that she was being lied to at every level. As such, the War on Drugs (and DARE) acted as a "Gateway" for her use of the more serious drugs.
The Canadian Senate report on Marijuana for example says that there was "no rational basis for making marijuana illegal in the first place." Zip, Nada None.

You and others are dead set on invalidating the benefits received by my daughter and the rest of my family from Pathway.

I wouldn't say that. I would have to meet your daughter to be able to reach that conclusion.

It's as if you fear any positive results.

It's entirely possible that there may be some positive results. However, almost every psychologist I know that knows and understands the methodology of "Straight" derived programs would suggest that your daughter might be the exception that proves the rule.

Your pathetic response is simply, "well, hopefully your daughter will still talk to you in 20 years after she is no longer brainwashed."

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2003, 07:38:00 PM

No, because you went to the wrong experts i.e. drug warriors who believe that all drug use is abuse. It's not. Clearly, from what I've read about Pathways and everything that is Straight derived, the US led "war on drugs" is in itself a complete and utter failure. I suggest you read all 92,000 odd accumulated news items on http://www.mapinc.org (http://www.mapinc.org) and you might be able to get the global picture. (they are both pro & con)

Or, because I didn't choose to let her use as long as I was present?

What drug are you talking about?
Most knowledgable professionals that I know would be more concerned about their kids smoking cigarettes than about them smoking marijuana. But they would not condone going to school stoned.

Well, it sounds like you merely found a convenient way to rationalize your daughter's drug use.

That's ridiculous. Using marijuana can be fun. When it is touted as "dangerous" by John Walters and the DEA, the drug warriors lose all credibility . As for ecstacy, we had a death in our town that was attributed to Ecstacy. In fact, the toxicology reports found that the individual who died was dosing himself with dextromethorphan for a cough when he took one pill. Deaths from E are rare (1/2 million are consumed every weekend in Britain without deaths) and are attributable to heatstroke and/or lack of fluids and/or electrolytes when dancing. Knowledgable users will take care of themselves, and only use it sparingly.
But I go on, you can get accurate information on most drugs by going to http://www.erowid.org (http://www.erowid.org). I tend to give this some credibility, because a police toxicologist gave me that information.

Your actions were akin to holding your daughter's hand over a hot stove burner to teach her that it will burn her, but she can still use it to make soup. (Except that stoves are legal).

My daughter has used drugs, fully aware of the real dangers they posed. You don't ban stoves because you might get burned. Your argument fails.

I wonder how your story would have turned out had your daughter actually died from her "experimental" drug use. First-time users have been known to die.

See above. My daughter knew this before she used ecstacy. All things in moderation.

I chose a different approach, not to detach from my daughter, but to get her help.

You think I detached? I happened to realise that I would not be able to convince my daughter of anything by just relying on the stupid arguments of DARE & zero-tolerance. I happen to have been involved in Juvenile courts and frequently witnessed the harm done by parents who "talk up" the sentences of their recalcitrant youngsters might have. Middle class parents were the worst.
I've represented teens with problem parents

I had reached my parenting and non-clinical limits on how to rationalize with a drug-using teen (it doesn't happen).

Right

I figured an expert could work with me and my daughter to make some breakthroughs.

Wrong experts

You say,
"A vastly higher percentage of the population attempt, or at least seriously contemplate suicide at some point in life."
This is pretty vague. What is "vastly higher percentage"? Is there some clinical study you reference, or just pull this out of your air?

Actually, there are studies, and my wife worked with an organization that did some of the most advanced in N America. I'm not about to go looking up the the studies, but suicide prevention is something in which I have both academic and hands-on experience. Did it ever occur to you that drug abuse, (not use) might be a slow way of committing suicide?

Are you now trying to rationalize your own suicidal tendancies?

So, what that mean? Now that is taking a personal moralistic tone. Depression is an illness or perhaps a chemical imbalance. Are you going to blame me for having the flu too?

Ironically, I find that your version of justifying inappropriate actions is not dissimilar to how my daughter and other drug using teens attempted to lie, steal, and manipulate to get what they wanted - more drugs; but it was always someone else's fault when she got in trouble.

There is ample evidence that where a harm reduction approach is taken to drugs, crime drops. The crimes you mention are at least as much a product of the Drug War as of the drugs themselves. I would no more condone theft for drugs than I would killing. If someone makes an informed decision to use drugs, they are hardly victims to be protected from themselves. But the laws against theft, drunk driving, or murder are to protect us from being victims of somebody else. I would be more afraid of the consequences of arrest for drugs in the US than of the drugs themslves, because this is a crusade that has to stop!

You say,
"Drug use is NOT a primary cause of anything."

Are you serious?

Absolutely.

I bet alcohol use and drunk driving don't cause huge loss of life either, right?

You and others are dead set on invalidating the benefits received by my daughter and the rest of my family from Pathway.

I wouldn't say that. I would have to meet your daughter to be able to reach that conclusion.

It's as if you fear any positive results.

Your pathetic response is simply, "well, hopefully your daughter will still talk to you in 20 years after she is no longer brainwashed."

That wasn't in my post and you are simply saying that to put up a straw man to my argument. So I'm not commenting on what follows from that in the rest of what you say.

However, as I did say, I know that you and others like you can never be convinced that your position is wrong because of that strong N. American Puritanism that Lord Bertrand Russell so despised. It gave us Prohibition and the Drug war, and unfortunately, by criminalising the use of drugs the US has made drugs more attractive to some than they otherwise would be. At the same time, I join with the more than 600 world intellectuals who have petitioned the UN to bring an end to the war on drugs as they believe it now produces more harm than the drugs themselves. Unfortunately, many of the victims, like you and your daughter, fail to realise this.
I am not denying that drugs have an addictive potential with SOME individuals. The cost of prohibition, however,is far greater and is a result of one of the biggest boondoggles in world history. And the US is responsible for forcing this war on the rest of the world through the various United Nations conventions. But that's a topic for another argument.

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 08:54:00 PM

I guess theres diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. I dont know a thing about pathways as a matter a fact I never even heard of it until I came to this site. However I was in Straight for about 2 yrs. and became a proud robot..mmm.. I mean graduate. Straight produced its own culture with its own mores, and when a phaser begins to identify with said culture it is only a matter of time until they become fully immersed. Now thats not so bad except that the rest of the world does not go by "straight culture" I mean Im your average New Yorker, what! Im supposed to stand there and blubber my feelings to everybody and then ask for group hugs!?! Get da fuck outta here! Seriously though I do understand the importance of the things that the more "better intentioned" people at Straight were trying to convey, but it just doesnt work like that and the security one may derive out of that place is a false sense of security that is doomed to evolve into insecurity. I will admit that I know nothing about Pathways, however, when a snake sheds its skin its still the same ole snake. Love ya, support ya and dont forget its evil to tbb(I mean really it is)

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 09:13:00 PM

Hey Yo!!!! What happened to that kid that started this thread!?!!! Im saying he was all sharing and shit and then that Mary chic keeps posting tlking about "hey you can trust me I want to talk to you about your experience" and then Bam! We aint heard nothing from the dude(druggie slang, I love it yo)Anyway she probably set him up and a bunch of staff and reject grads probably bumrushed and threw him back in group! Ohhh snap! I bet he is getting ripped a new asshole right now they probably flicking him to face forward and makin him sit up straight and shit. Yo I was in the Michigan Straight and I aint never heard of no damn Mary plus that shit sounds like a phoney made up name too you know like "hi my name Mary " and shit yo who belives that. She got a cool ass e mail address like macpurple but her real name is Mary?????!!!! bullshit. YO lets go break that kid out we'll just bust in and be like YO we're here to get anonomys out this muthaphuker and let them try to restrain us! OH shit Im going to go do that right now. Meet ya at Pathways!!!!
p.s. Well I just did my moral inventory and decided to leave this problem in God's hands so I guess the kids going to be dragged around by his beltloop for the next few months. ha ha ha ha :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: SurvivorEMSR on April 01, 2003, 02:26:00 PM

Hey. Actually I still post, just not on this forum "yo." The only responses I get on the Pathway forum are from people who disagree with my views. Check out some of the other forums "dude."

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 03, 2003, 09:06:00 PM

Actually, you've only paid attention to responses from people who disagree with your views. My name is Leigh Bright and I'm VERY interested in your point of view. E-mail me and let's chat! - leighann43@juno.com

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2003, 08:03:00 AM

Does making a kid write out his whole program ten times because he forgot one word when he was reciting it sound ok? Do you think you can feel the rage and anger, hopelessness that that child would feel? Don't you think this would break him? Would it make him be tolerant of others. This IS what goes on at Pathway now.

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 21, 2003, 01:50:00 PM

:smokin:

MG8

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2003, 07:38:00 AM

Pathway is in a 4 story building and is on the third floor. I think there is only one exit out the front. There is a door out another room that maybe leads to a stairwell but that would be locked!!! On Fridays there can be 70-80 people in there. There are 18 clients ? if all at the same time but they are off this week and at the building from school. I think the amount of people and only one exit is very scary!!!!! The ceilings are probably ten feet. Flourescent lighted.

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2003, 07:41:00 AM

also its about 2000 square feet divided up into smaller rooms with only exits into the other rooms.

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 22, 2003, 08:03:00 AM

Thank you for answering my question so soon. I would like to know if those rooms have windows in them. My concern is that the newcomers and even oldcomers are not getting enough sun. I know that if a person is on 1st phase for a while, they develop a "newcomer tan". It is good for the body to be exposed to sunlight, but are they there? Is there an elevator or do they have to walk up and down the steps?
MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2003, 08:11:00 AM

there is an elevator and there are plenty of windows

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 22, 2003, 09:06:00 AM

Does any sun shine through those windows into group? Most multistory buildings have windows, but they can easily be covered. Is there a picture of the place anywhere that shows this building? I have heard that there is a large fence in the rear of this place, is that for Pathway or some other occupant?
I have a lot of questions, but this will do for now, thanks.
MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2003, 05:06:00 PM

Light is fine, the fence is not a problem. My concern was the exits out with that many people in there.

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2003, 07:28:00 PM

What are you gonna do MG8? Put on your Superman suit and try to rescue them? Or put out a report on how lack of sunlight is bad for the skin?

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 24, 2003, 11:58:00 AM

To anonymous whoever you are...

I neither need nor want a superman suit. I have no plans to dedicate a report to the sunlight subject.
I want to learn more about Pathway and how the program there is similar and in some cases identical to straight, inc.
Thank you to the polite people who are answering my questions. :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 25, 2003, 11:41:00 PM

:eek:
Check out salary of pathway's CEO. ($80,000).
Also she was convicted of tax fraud. So I think it is the money !

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2003, 09:53:00 AM

MG8 can you give the names of the suicides. :skull:

Title: Story
Post by: girl stuff on April 29, 2003, 10:38:00 AM

Take a look for yourself. They are on this web-site somewhere.

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 29, 2003, 10:38:00 AM

sure, whats your email address?
MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2003, 12:51:00 PM

Just an FYI, I read an interesting thing about Hitler in a book by Alice Miller. He had commented on how his father had beat him and he would stand and take it and count the blows and how it had made him a better person. An aide of his once confided that Hitler would wake up screaming in the night and counting irrationally.

Title: Story
Post by: ehm on April 29, 2003, 12:54:00 PM

Today is Holocaust rememberance day.

Title: Story
Post by: butternationalist on May 27, 2003, 10:57:00 AM

::cheers::

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2003, 01:01:00 AM

Man Ryan you sound like you went through so much. But is it not true you didnt even gaduate. Pulls like yourself need to grow some balls. Cant finish anything can you!!!!!

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2003, 03:34:00 PM

I just can't believe it. This kid keeps on insulting but never leaves his name. Come on kid, who are you. Show us you're not a little pussy. Ron

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2003, 03:36:00 PM

Why don't u leave ur name and grow some balls. you keep on ragging on this butter guy, but u won't even tell him who u r. Yeah and who the hell cares if he graduated? That doesn't have anything to do with what we talk about on this site you stupid little fucker.

Title: Story
Post by: nakid2003 on June 05, 2003, 03:08:00 AM

this is horseshit! just because someone didnt finish the pathway program doesnt mean they dont have balls. it has nothing to do with it. our past does not dictate who we are today, including our choices such as not finishing pathway, it is what we choose to do today that dictates the person we are defind as. and this is coming from someone who graduated that fucken place.

He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein

Title: Story
Post by: butternationalist on June 05, 2003, 04:29:00 PM

Chris,
im glad to hear youve begun to understand thefuc up stuff at pathway if youre the same chris im thinking of i think i tald o you at the dinner dance '00 for a while. fuck pathway and stay strong.peace.... :rofl: --- ryan smith

Title: Story
Post by: METALGOD8 on June 05, 2003, 07:15:00 PM

For those of you who are genuinely interested in seeing Pathway put into the history books:

I always hope that there will come a day when there will be a drove of pathway clients who will be dedicated to seeing that program closed. I have had people call, and that is good, I appreciate that. What we really need now are copies of all paperwork associated with your stay there, statements about your experiences, etc... The time to act is now! ISAC is evolving into a major force of survivors, parents, reporters, lawyers, doctors, you name it. PEOPLE magazine called ISAC concerning the Dundee Ranch incident down there in Costa Rica.

Please contact us at our site, or private message here at Fornits. The site address is http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
Thank you for your participation.

MG8 :smokin:

Title: Story
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2003, 08:19:00 AM

Let's see, I want to take a child out of his pain and anger and make him see what a defective individual he is. Let's arm him,give him no privacy,take away everything he has, put him in a bizarre world where he has to call everyone mom and dad, sing stupid songs that he hates, pretend he's a flying piece of shit, make him ask for everything: water, to get up, to go to the bathroom, what a wonderful idea! And this is only a very small part of it.