Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: p.e.n.i.#1 on July 17, 2005, 08:44:00 PM
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JUST WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HEARD OR IS SOMEONE WHO HAS WENT AND BROKE THERE CHILD OR FREIND OUT OF ONE OF THESE BRAINWASHING CONCENTRATION CAMPS BEFORE. IM FINDING THERE IS NO US IN JUSTICE, THAT IS THERE ISNT REALLY SHIT ANYONE CAN DO WHEN THERER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN DENIED AND VIOLATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.....OH WELL! NICE FREE COUNTRY I LIVE IN[ This Message was edited by: p.e.n.i.#1 on 2005-07-17 17:47 ]
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I would not recommend going and breaking a child out, p.e.n.i., only because it may result in both you and the child being arrested and locked up much longer. You can help the child better if you, yourself stay out of jail. Three Springs Waygooking is right, get a good lawyer, even if you can't afford it, cut back on food, beer, cigs, clothes, magazines, cable, or whatever treats you indulge in, save all your money and hire the best damn lawyer that you can find. It may not be easy, but if you're willing to risk busting out the kid, you should try all legal means first.
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that was all good wisdom, here is some more... Dont scream on the forums.
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On 2005-07-18 06:52:00, OverLordd wrote:
"that was all good wisdom, here is some more... Dont scream on the forums."
Shut up, dick. :roll:
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nice advice, tryed the legal route at 16,000 dollars, even had an expert witness on the stand telling the judge this school was wrong for my son. Believe me I would picket the place evryday all day and I would constantly give my son signs that I am around, but here lays a small problem, I live on the other side of the United States in California, and I also am raising 4 step kids ages 5, 6, 8, & a 16 year old who is pregnant plus have a 10 month old baby and my husband who is disabled for whom I also care for 24/7 allthough we are well off, Im not donald trump and cannot afford to fly myself plus all our kids out to NY. Its difficult, but my original question was not if anyone knew the laws I know the LAWS its if anyone has actually done it and gotten charged....Yes I know the laws but just as the facilities know certain laws they break them anyway and get away with it just wondering if they can do it why cant I?
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You can't get away with it because family court judges are hell on non-custodial parents kidnapping the kid.
If you can't afford a lawyer to pursue custody, you can't afford a lawyer to defend yourself in the criminal case. And neither can the rest of your family afford to lose you while you are in jail.
In jail, you're no help to anyone.
If you're not willing to go through family law, and you can't make nice with the other parent and get your kid transferred to a better place (like a traditional prep school) by offering to pay some of the tuition, and unless you're very good at publicity, then you need to accept that you're not going to be able to do much.
I know that one of the things that gives me pause is that you come across as very hostile to your ex (maybe with reason, I get that) and because a judge has ruled against you, I have to wonder what the other side of the story is.
I absolutely oppose involuntary residential behavior modification programs. I think coercive persuasion of that particular type is totally inappropriate for anyone, regardless of apparent temporary results.
It's not a matter of tolerance of programs for me. My skepticism is wondering what skeletons you have in your closet. Maybe you don't have any, but in this kind of situation I've been mistaken before by assuming that.
I suspect any journalist would feel the same skepticism if you went the publicity route.
If I was a journalist, how could you help me believe you?
One thing that would help would be complete official transcripts of any family court proceedings and any civil lawsuits, as well as a signed release for them to check your rap sheet (if any) and such.
I'd go through the transcripts with a highlighter pen and highlight anything negative your ex had to say about you, highlight your rebuttals in a different color, and provide reference numbers (sortof like footnotes) to make it easy to match up allegations with rebuttals.
If I was a journalist and you gave me documentation of your ex's side of the story up front, it would make you a lot more credible to me.
I'd also do the legwork for the journalist by getting signed (notarized?) affidavits (with contact information) by former students and parents of the facility your kid is in.
I'd also get any background information on the owners of the facility and who all they're affiliated with and their political party contributions that I could find.
Then go to wrightslaw on the net (google is your friend) and follow their "letter to a stranger" guidelines in writing up your side of the story.
Your side of the story goes on top, with a table of contents indexing your supporting documentation. If it were me, I'd use a three ring binder with the numbered different colored tabs. Don't give the journalist your only copy of anything. Put the contact information and any signed releases in the binder next to the affidavits or background info or whatever *and* type up the list of contacts and their info, alphabetized within category and broken out by category (former attendees, parents, your ex, other relatives, supporting contacts for verification of background information).
At the front of each section, you want a brief summary (just a paragraph) about what it contains.
Completely Hypothetical Example: "These are signed affidavits from former attendees and parents of former students describing the physical and/or sexual abuse, sleep deprivation, prolonged solitary confinement, educational neglect, poor facility hygiene, medical neglect, nutritionally inadequate and/or spoiled food, therapist breaches of ethics, and material misrepresentation of services to parents that they experienced or personally witnessed in or with this facility."
Don't sell it to the journalist as her charitably helping you out with your situation, she knows that already. You have to present it to her by telling her why this story will interest their readers and sell newspapers (or TV time).
Your 3-ring binder is a "press packet." Tell her you've put together an extensive, indexed, press packet with supporting documentation and full contact information of your critics as well as your supporters. Tell her the press packet tells your story, but also does as much justice to what your critics would say about you and your child as you can reasonably give, given your quite natural biases.
Since you're in California, you'll want to mention Representative Miller's interest in this issue.
It's a whole lot of work, but less work and safer than breaking your kid out and going on the run, with far better long-term prospects of success without further serious trauma to your child.
Timoclea
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You're in luck. In the thread "Looking for Help" a reporter from the Hartford Courant, a newspaper with a terrific reputation for investigative reporting, is asking for people's experiences with programs.
It's the best shot for publicity you're likely to get and it's right here on a plate. You don't even need to put together a full press kit since she's already set on doing the story.
If you want to do something, jump on it.
Timoclea
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Thank you for both suggestions, nI emailed the Looking for help lead. I am just so desperate to get my son out of there, I can barley sleep at night knowing what he is going through fofr no reason other than his dad being a controlling, abusive asshole.And I really dont have any skeletons in my closet because Im up front and I dont need to hide or lie for any reason. Ive been to prison, Ive lost my kids before, Ive done many things in my life that Im not proud of but because it made me who I am today I wouldnt trade my expeirences for anything. (allthough a clean record would be nice!) when I went to prison I thought that was my payment for the crimes I comitted, I didnt know that it haunts you your whole life ! how niave I was! Just for the record I am not a theif and I am not violent, I went to prison for manafacturing and being an escaped felon. Just 4 the record I cant stand a theif or people who intentionally hurt someone else, but I have totally cleaned up my life now and things just are fucked up because I still have to acknowledge the bad choices I made and consequnces to them (like the judge already having a bad image of me due to my past.)So, of course no one is going to listen to me, thats why I presented the FACTS in court because they spoke for themselves, unfortunately it fell upon the deaf ears of Judge Dale Wells.
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Anon you said
I would not recommend going and breaking a child out, p.e.n.i., only because it may result in both you and the child being arrested and locked up much longer.
Why on earth would the child be locked up for longer? You can't hold the child responsible for what you think would be the mistake of the parent. And I am not saying the parent would be making a mistake.
As a matter of fact what I read from that comment is that you think kids should be punished for the mistakes their parents make.
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Why on earth would the child be locked up for longer? You can't hold the child responsible for what you think would be the mistake of the parent.
Because that is the sadistic mindset of the people running these places.
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On 2005-07-18 23:14:00, p.e.n.i.#1 wrote:
"Thank you for both suggestions, nI emailed the Looking for help lead. I am just so desperate to get my son out of there, I can barley sleep at night knowing what he is going through fofr no reason other than his dad being a controlling, abusive asshole.And I really dont have any skeletons in my closet because Im up front and I dont need to hide or lie for any reason. Ive been to prison, Ive lost my kids before, Ive done many things in my life that Im not proud of but because it made me who I am today I wouldnt trade my expeirences for anything. (allthough a clean record would be nice!) when I went to prison I thought that was my payment for the crimes I comitted, I didnt know that it haunts you your whole life ! how niave I was! Just for the record I am not a theif and I am not violent, I went to prison for manafacturing and being an escaped felon. Just 4 the record I cant stand a theif or people who intentionally hurt someone else, but I have totally cleaned up my life now and things just are fucked up because I still have to acknowledge the bad choices I made and consequnces to them (like the judge already having a bad image of me due to my past.)So, of course no one is going to listen to me, thats why I presented the FACTS in court because they spoke for themselves, unfortunately it fell upon the deaf ears of Judge Dale Wells. "
Manufacturing what?
I've got to tell you that as a convicted felon I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting your kid out of there before he turns 18.
I think it would fall upon deaf ears with *any* judge.
It's unfortunate, but some mistakes follow you for life, no matter what you do later. Including felony convictions and having a child with an over-controlling SOB.
If there's a grandparent, aunt, or uncle who has a clean record, is healthy, and fits all the criteria for a guardian as fit as June Cleaver, you can perhaps persuade that person pursue custody.
Other than that, what you do (or have done) affects your kid. It sucks, but that's life.
Timoclea
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Tell me what has really ever been solved in the teen industry through the courts? sometimes one has to take things into their own hands, my fear of my son dieing out there is greater than my fear of doing prison time again. I am getting to an end and see no light except the obvious, Ive written and done and spent all that I can and still no relief has been found. This forum was my last hope, but if and when the time comes for a change my son could either be dead or just totaly in need of therapy cuz his heads all fucked up bythe time hes 18, so , whad-a-u-think-about-that
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Incorrect. I knew first hand a convicted felon who won their custody battle. They cleaned up their act completely. They were the better parent and the judge saw that. It would help if you had an employer, a minister, or someone in a position that is respected, to write a letter to the judge to say what a great job you are doing these days.
It might help if you had in hand any and all police reports on the school, or anything else on file with state or county agencies, and sworn statements from former students or staff regarding the school.
Do not allow people on the internet to weaken your resolve. In the very end, you can at least look your child in the eye and say that you kept on trying and never gave up.
Where is the rest of your family? I think that you should, as advised earlier in this thread I think, get all the information together. Present it to the reporter, but also present it to the rest of your child's extended family, and this means in-laws as well. If you don't get along and can't talk to them, mail it to them. Also present the information to the child's teachers, people who knew the child in other situations, like their minister, godparents, and so on.
Get extended family to help out with the kids you are living with now, too.
Why did you have more kids, and why do you live so far away from your other child? That right there is some irresponsible parenting. Get your act together.
Now get to work. And give me a break with this forum being your last hope. THAT is retarded. It's the fucking internet. I'm not trying to be cruel, just slap some fucking sense into you.
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Your trying to slap some sence into her? Try being respectful to a person in pain anon. :evil:
Now you did say some very smart things, but you were rude doing it, you can do it very simply by being respectful.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-07-20 08:22 ]
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On 2005-07-20 08:21:00, OverLordd wrote:
"Your trying to slap some sence into her? Try being respectful to a person in pain anon. :evil:
Now you did say some very smart things, but you were rude doing it, you can do it very simply by being respectful.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-07-20 08:22 ]"
Haha.. man, calling the kettle black ain't we?
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I don't mean give up. Did I *say* give up? I said try to find another relative who will look better to the court.
Obviously, if that's impossible, you just have to play the hand you've got with the Courts.
Kids running is one thing---it's understandable, and in many cases less bad than not running.
I can't see how a parent busting a kid out can do less trauma than staying there, because the parent *would* go to jail and the kid would always have horrible survivor guilt over the parent's jail time.
The overwhelming majority of kids *don't* die in facilities. That doesn't make the deaths right, it doesn't make what they do right. I am *not* advocating for those unscrupulous bastards.
Whatever situation you've got, there is *always* some way it could be worse.
A badly organized kidnapping to try to bust the kid out and live on the run would be one of those "worse" things. Kidnappings involve the FBI. As desperate as you are, what if you get shot by the cops trying to protect your kid after you run? How is your child going to live with that?
I'm not saying you shouldn't do anything. I'm just saying there's a "worse."
Talking to a reporter, if I were in your shoes what I would do is say up front, "Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. I've got a felony conviction on my record, and even though I've cleaned up my act and been clean for a long time, that kind of thing doesn't make family court judges like you."
By "up front" I mean I wouldn't let them get as far as having to ask you about skeletons in your closet.
If you put it right out there up front, it helps.
You can play the publicity game, it's just harder.
Timoclea
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Ok, ok Thank you for giving me a reality check with the picture that you painted, you guys sre right, I never thoght about all of that I just got way depressed and wasnt thinking straight ill end this thread now and keep pressing forward, On ward soilder, my son and I will survive thhis and I dont want to be dead, I escpecially couldnt bare the thought of my son having to live with any more troubles caused by me. How selfish of me, thank you again.... Im sure we will run into each other again on this forum somewhere ..........Peace out
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After posting my reply I was reading it and thought god there is alot of spelling errors, sorry I was kind of going to fast, really I can spell!duh!