Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Paul on June 15, 2005, 02:27:00 AM
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Please post if Deborah's posts have either
helped or hurt anyone?
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Oh, are you shittin' me? Deb provides a great deal of background and research info to these discussions.
You think your hawking forced psyche evals on little kids is really helping anybody?Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
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While I might not agree w/ all of them I certaintly find them interesting and it gets me to re-thinking some things.
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On 2005-06-15 18:31:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh, are you shittin' me? Deb provides a great deal of background and research info to these discussions.
You think your hawking forced psyche evals on little kids is really helping anybody?Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
"
I totally agree!
::drummer::
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"You think your hawking forced psyche evals on little kids is really helping anybody?"
What part of voluntary don't you understand?
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And what part of parental consent vs passive consent, do you not understand?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =50#110029 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10271&forum=9&start=50#110029)
You might not have a problem with the school district screening your child without your permission. Some? Many? Do.
What did you think about that Sex Survey they're giving sixth graders? Without parental consent of course.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =40#109909 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10271&forum=9&start=40#109909)
I don't know about other 11 year olds, but my grandson doesn't yet know what oral sex is, or what a condom is. And we would be irrate if he was asked if he used one during his last sexual encounter.
Public schools are out of control.
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Well said Deborah!
Our school district introduced anal/oral sex to our children in 6th grade under the guise of an "aids awareness program". When did the public school system take it upon themselves to teach morality?
Oh I know the arguments... "but parents aren't teaching sex ed, and morality, and manners.... yada yada yada...." so the schools have had to take up the slack.
Give the power back to the family!!! Better yet, families .... take the power back!
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What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?
When someone does get AIDS it is your goverment
with your tax dollars that pays for it.
Do you really think kids don't know about sex,
when you ask them and they deny it? Seriously now.
From what I hear you want to schools to not educate
about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.
Then when someone is diagnosed with a serious and persistant mental illness and they figure out that it started when they where younger you would not suggest that perhaps a screening would have helped this person. You would be satisfied the signs where all there, but the schools where not allowed to address the issue?
Why not? Because one family decided to not open their mail, while the rest of the town received their information on the TeenScreen, that you want
to throw out the whole test. Smart, very smart.
My illness would have shown up earlier in a screening. I wish they had them then, and I support them now. A couple of false positives can easily be figured out in a follow up appointment. These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.
Regarding sex education, so what if they learn these things in school, isn't it better that learning it from the kids in the neighborhood?
How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?
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How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?"
I learned from my parents in an age appropriate manner. And while I do not think that all should learn the way I did, I believe that my children should not have to learn the way the government dictates they should either(via the public school agenda).
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On 2005-06-16 09:01:00, Paul wrote:
"What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?
When someone does get AIDS it is your goverment
with your tax dollars that pays for it.
Do you really think kids don't know about sex,
when you ask them and they deny it? Seriously now.
From what I hear you want to schools to not educate
about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.
Then when someone is diagnosed with a serious and persistant mental illness and they figure out that it started when they where younger you would not suggest that perhaps a screening would have helped this person. You would be satisfied the signs where all there, but the schools where not allowed to address the issue?
Why not? Because one family decided to not open their mail, while the rest of the town received their information on the TeenScreen, that you want
to throw out the whole test. Smart, very smart.
My illness would have shown up earlier in a screening. I wish they had them then, and I support them now. A couple of false positives can easily be figured out in a follow up appointment. These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.
Regarding sex education, so what if they learn these things in school, isn't it better that learning it from the kids in the neighborhood?
How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?"
Ok so lets teach 6th graders about oral sex, give me a break WTF. Thats the problem with our education system, they have forgotten about Math,Science ,Reading instead they are more interested in teaching your 12 year old how to give a blow job, how to masturbate(like any kid can't figure that out on his own). Or the big one why Suzi has two mommies. And they wonder why the system is a failure.
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I am 49, when I was in school there was a demand
from students to augment the curriculum with
more relevant classes. Sex education was one of
them.
Looks like the schools are damned if they do
and damned if they don't.
Are you all attending the school board meetings
in your communities to help out?
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Its not a matter of teaching sex ed, it is a matter of content and age appropriate content, why is that so hard to understand. 5th and 6th graders being taught about oral sex is not appropriate. If you think it is then hire Michael Jackson to home school your kids.
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So in your town 12 year olds know nothing about sex?
The very first they would have heard the word sex is in the school sex ed classes?
Wow, maybe it is needed where you are from.
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Kids are not stupid, come on now.
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***What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?
How about at an appropriate age and curriculum, if at all. A ?survey? is not ?teaching? ? or, maybe it is. Sorta? introduces 11 years old to sex, condoms, oral sex, etc. by asking about their previous encounters. Is that appropriate ?education? for that age group? No.
I have an idea. How about we have the teacher stand up in front of the class and read the questions out loud to the students. Sure that would be fun for the uptight fundie teachers who can?t even say the word SEX much less teach anything useful about it.
BTW, Paul, did you read the article? You've commented on things before without reading, and simply from what your assume the article might say. Are you saying that you are in agreement with the way the SURVEY is being given, and that parents should not have access to the questions because they might 'misinterpret' them, while their 11 year old fully grasps the concept of oral sex???? Are you a parent?
***From what I hear you want to schools to not educate about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.
Yeh, Paul. And personally, I don?t want someone else teaching my kid ?their? values around sex.
Sorry your parents didn't take you for a genuinely voluntary mental health evaluation with the local shrink. That is not justification for the government to screen captive audiences. IT?S NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB. It was your parents job. Get some therapy. The government is NOT a parent.
***These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.
Paul, you have stated more than once that you are not up on how the psych industry affects minors. Why don?t you refrain from commenting based on your assumptions and fantastical thinking. Educate yourself, so other?s don?t have to.
A psych dx can affect a child's life and choices for years to come. It is NOT simply information the parents can choose to use or toss. How naïve of you. Or are you being intentionally deceptive?
Read about these two little girls in Illinois. Tell me that?s voluntary.
http://www.ablechild.org/kauffman/ameri ... linois.htm (http://www.ablechild.org/kauffman/american_children_trapped_in%20illinois.htm)
Mrs. Ayalla Kauffman, a mother of 8 came to Ablechild alleging that her two youngest children were taken by the State of Illinois Department of Children and Family Services (DCFS) for what she was told by the DCFS Caseworker to be A 90 DAY MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATION/ SCREENING PERIOD for the girls. When the 90-Day period was up, the State of Illinois DCFS refused to release the two girls back into the care of their mother. Mrs. Kauffman has reported allegations that her two girls are being abused in State care. Mrs. Kauffman states that both her girls have been PHYSICALLY RESTRAINED numerous times to the point of obvious bruising on their bodies. In addition, Mrs. Kauffman has reported that her children are being ADMINISTERED UNAPPROVED AND DANGEROUS PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS WITHOUT HER CONSENT. Many of these drugs have been linked directly to suicide and violence, are unapproved for use in children, and have blackbox warnings on their labels. Mrs. Kauffman has reported that ANY CONTACT WITH HER CHILDREN HAS BEEN TERMINATED BY THE RESIDENTIAL CENTERS AND THE ?TREATING? PSYCHIATRISTS. This is being done EVEN THOUGH THE COURT HAS NOT TERMINATED MRS. KAUFFMAN?S VISITATION WITH HER CHILDREN.
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"Men had better be without education than be educated by their rulers."
--Thomas Hodgskin
Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
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On 2005-06-16 11:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Its not a matter of teaching sex ed, it is a matter of content and age appropriate content, why is that so hard to understand. 5th and 6th graders being taught about oral sex is not appropriate. If you think it is then hire Michael Jackson to home school your kids."
I would beg to differ with you. Who decides what is or is not appropriate information for a particular child?
I never wanted to discuss certain things w/ my 9yo daughter till she was far older. Unfortunately, her father exposed her to a lot of things that were extremely inapropriate for a kid that age. So what would you do? Leave the kid in the dark and let her wonder for a few years? Let the schoolpeople decide? Send her to a shrink? Or just butch up and answer her questions... ya' know, like a.... what's the term... it's sort of arcane... Oh yeah! Like a PARENT.Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_
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On 2005-06-16 11:51:00, Paul wrote:
"I am 49, when I was in school there was a demand
from students to augment the curriculum with
more relevant classes.
I too am in the "forty something" category. I remember that our sex ed consisted of learning about body parts and their function. We learned the mechanics of reproduction (not necessarily the sex act, but rather that the sperm fertilized the egg kinda thing ::blushing:: ). And we were segregated into male/female groups. I attended with my mother. She was able to support me afterward and answer any questions that may arise. Fast forward 20 plus years to our children's experience.
Learn about anal, oral sex. (I don't think I knew about such things until my later high school years.... I know I was naive :smile: ) in the classroom setting. Learn how to properly use a condom by practicing on a banana in a mixed peer group. Talk about any sexual experience in mixed company. Etc, etc, etc.
It is not "sex education" per say that I am opposed to. Kids need to know about the mechanics, etc. And in todays world of disease, they need to know about AIDS, HPV, and teen pregnancy rates. I know that not all parents take it upon themselves to educate their children. I guess my beef is that in our school district it is a part of the "normal curriculum". I had to jump through hoops to get the district to waive the required high school course. My kids were more interested in academia and prepping for college than "learning" what has been a life long discourse in our home.
I don't blame the school district. It is a societal problem.
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On 2005-06-16 11:51:00, Paul wrote:
Looks like the schools are damned if they do
and damned if they don't.
That's right, they are. Because they're publicly funded, they must restrict the curriculum to only topics and treatment of those topics approved by all of the parents. Of course, this is a rediculous notion in what we laughingly call a free country. No way at all to reach any meaningful consensus.
Are you all attending the school board meetings
in your communities to help out?
Nope. But we did attend a dandy picnic a week or so ago w/ other homeschoolers. And we'll certainly bring some family favorites to the Not Back to School picknic in September. Among other topics of discussion that often come up at these events, we'll probably have a lively little debate about how best to overturn compulsory schooling laws, defund public schooling and improve prospects for a real education for the net generation.
There's no "I" in team.
There's no "U" in team, either.
So... if you're not on the team and I'm not on the team, then who's on the fucking team?
yea, the team sux...down with the team
The Great Jack and King Rea
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Ahh gee that is a hard one Ginger, I as the parent should be the only one who decides what is age appropriate for my child, not you, not the school district. My whole point was the content...CONTENT teaching 5th and 6th graders about oral sex is bullshit. Or would it depend on the child maybe some are ready....give me a fucking break already.
Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2005-06-16 12:30 ]
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On 2005-06-16 12:09:00, Paul wrote:
"So in your town 12 year olds know nothing about sex?
The very first they would have heard the word sex is in the school sex ed classes?
Wow, maybe it is needed where you are from.
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Kids are not stupid, come on now."
I knew from experience at 12. I was kept in the dark. My parents sure didn't do the job and it was unheard of for a school to tell me all about. Sadly, there are parents out there that don't talk to their kids so I can see where you are coming from Paul.
I just don't trust most schools enough to not force their own thoughts on morality down my children's throats. My child did watch a film about development last year and this year because I signed a consent form. We then discussed the films. Very uncomfortable to me, but then again I had to get over it because I don't want her to follow my path as a teen.
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On 2005-06-16 12:09:00, Paul wrote:
"So in your town 12 year olds know nothing about sex?
The very first they would have heard the word sex is in the school sex ed classes?
Wow, maybe it is needed where you are from.
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Kids are not stupid, come on now."
In 2005 are you kidding? shit I probably knew more than I should. And I know these kids know far more now than I did at that age.So Paul are you a teacher in one of these failing school systems?
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No, he's a promoter of Mental Health Treatment, nation-wide screening of all children for mental illness, sex survey to sixth graders.... and anything else the shrinkydinks want to foust on the public.
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On 2005-06-16 12:50:00, Deborah wrote:
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No, he's a promoter of Mental Health Treatment, nation-wide screening of all children for mental illness, sex survey to sixth graders.... and anything else the shrinkydinks want to foust on the public."
Thanks Deb, well I guess that says it all, whay not nation wide screening for shit-bag parents.MMMMM now theres a thought, Paul where are you on this one?
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On 2005-06-16 12:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
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Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.
Patriot, the word is spelled academics..... But your lack of spelling ability does kind of inadvertantly prove your point: Schools should be focusing on academics--literacy, math, writing skills, and lay off the social engineering. If schools couldn't teach you to spell properly, I don't think they could appropriately teach sex ed to 5th and 6th graders. Let the little bastards learn from pornographic magazines like we did.
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On 2005-06-16 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 12:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.
Patriot, the word is spelled academics..... But your lack of spelling ability does kind of inadvertantly prove your point: Schools should be focusing on academics--literacy, math, writing skills, and lay off the social engineering. If schools couldn't teach you to spell properly, I don't think they could appropriately teach sex ed to 5th and 6th graders. Let the little bastards learn from pornographic magazines like we did."
Ok so what are you an English lit major or what? I have been asking for a spell checker on here for over a year now. Where is it Ginger? No spelling is not my forte nor are people that make them little selves feel superior in their OWN MIND by pointing it out. Have you read some of the immature post on this site? So why is spelling an issue?
Yes my spelling sucks, But ya know what for a guy who can?t spell for shit or put together a sentence I?ll bet I pay more in taxes quarterly than you make in a year. But thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I will pick up some remedial?? spelling? readin and spellin classes at my local Junior College
:lol: :lol:
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Okay Patriot you know I have much love for ya and all :grin: , but Junior college? Meaning community college? Nothing wrong w/ community college folks.
I went to a community college before attending my university and the education was superior. As a matter of fact I did have to start in a remedial English class. Skipping lots of school and then wasting away in straight for 2 years hurt me academically.
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On 2005-06-16 13:42:00, webcrawler wrote:
"Okay Patriot you know I have much love for ya and all :grin: , but Junior college? Meaning community college? Nothing wrong w/ community college folks.
I went to a community college before attending my university and the education was superior. As a matter of fact I did have to start in a remedial English class. Skipping lots of school and then wasting away in straight for 2 years hurt me academically.
"
Remedial..did i spell that right? No, no hit on Community College, I attended one too prior to a university.And hey annon I got a B in english, shit liberal professor must have felt sorry for my dumb ass. I guess they passed me to get me the hell out. :lol:
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If it's important to ya Patriot, you can type your response in Word the cut/paste here. Just a suggestion!! Not a 'demand'. I really don't care, haven't had a problem getting your message.
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On 2005-06-16 13:57:00, Deborah wrote:
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If it's important to ya Patriot, you can type your response in Word the cut/paste here. Just a suggestion!! Not a 'demand'. I really don't care, haven't had a problem getting your message."
Thanks Deb, occasionally I do that but sometimes I get in a hurry being at work and just type something in without thought of spelling it correctly.
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Patriot~
Here is one that I downloaded for free. Because, I am by far the world's worst speller!! If the link doesn't work, just google it. The only thing I do worse than spell is attach links.
http://www.iespell.com (http://www.iespell.com)
"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!" -- Andrew Jackson
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On 2005-06-16 12:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
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Ahh gee that is a hard one Ginger, I as the parent should be the only one who decides what is age appropriate for my child, not you, not the school district. My whole point was the content...CONTENT teaching 5th and 6th graders about oral sex is bullshit. Or would it depend on the child maybe some are ready....give me a fucking break already.
Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.
Well, that's my point. To you and a lot of other people, that's just plain wrong. Can't you see how wrong that is? What's wrong with you, that you can't see what's wrong with that? Unless, of course, you think the schools are competent to teach these subjects as well or better than you can and you see the classroom setting as a perfectly appropriate environment. In that case, well, what's wrong with you that you can't see that? Are you mad? Paranoid? Overly protective?
You see the dilema. Inteligent, reasonable people of good character can take either side of the argument and neither one would ever be more right than the other. So it has no place in the public sector, it is definitely not one of those thing that can be done better, if at all, by government.
Same goes for any topic of education. Do you believe in sight words or phonetics? At what age do you put your foot down and insist that your kid start reading? Do you read to them or let them struggle through?
And that's just 2nd grade (what we used to start doing in kindergarten!)
Onto history and world events. Wanna talk about complicated? Read up on how the NEA constantly lobbys for even more political correctness censorship in textbooks and other allegedly educational material. How long before just one of those ivy tower idiots demonstrates enough prescience to cut to the chase, issues a recomendation for blank text books and is summarily fired w/ cause and prejudice for his temporary lapse of insanity.
:silly:
Nope, education is not something we want to be standardized and medeocre. If we really want first rate education for our kids, we keep them out of school and make damned sure they get it.
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-06-16 14:23:00, Truth Searcher wrote:
"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!" -- Andrew Jackson
Oooooh, I love that! And Jackson is an ancenstor to my husband and kids. (which might help explain why he's the Bastard Administrator, among other things.... spellchecker my arse!)God is the...refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find no sanctuary in His arms, but...a kind of superiority, soothing to their...egos: He will set them above their betters.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-06-16 17:24:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 14:23:00, Truth Searcher wrote:
"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!" -- Andrew Jackson
Oooooh, I love that! And Jackson is an ancenstor to my husband and kids. (which might help explain why he's the Bastard Administrator, among other things.... spellchecker my arse!)God is the...refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find no sanctuary in His arms, but...a kind of superiority, soothing to their...egos: He will set them above their betters.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;"
Awww come on Hun I'm challenged I need spell checker
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How about reading my posts?
Add voluntary:
On 2005-06-16 12:50:00, Deborah wrote:
"
No, he's a promoter of Mental Health Treatment, nation-wide screening of all children for mental illness, sex survey to sixth graders.... and anything else the shrinkydinks want to foust on the public."
Thanks Deb, well I guess that says it all, whay not nation wide screening for shit-bag parents.MMMMM now theres a thought, Paul where are you on this one? "
Can you all spell and understand voluntary?
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On 2005-06-16 13:30:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 12:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.
Patriot, the word is spelled academics..... But your lack of spelling ability does kind of inadvertantly prove your point: Schools should be focusing on academics--literacy, math, writing skills, and lay off the social engineering. If schools couldn't teach you to spell properly, I don't think they could appropriately teach sex ed to 5th and 6th graders. Let the little bastards learn from pornographic magazines like we did."
Ok so what are you an English lit major or what? No spelling is not my forte nor are people that make them little selves feel superior in their OWN MIND by pointing it out.
No, I'm not an English lit major, (hell I didn't even graduate college) just someone who likes to taunt illiterate buffoons. Also, the correct grammer would be "people that make their little selves feel better..."
Yes my spelling sucks, But ya know what for a guy who can?t spell for shit or put together a sentence I?ll bet I pay more in taxes quarterly than you make in a year.
Yeah, I hear there's big money in gay porn.
But thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I will pick up some remedial?? spelling? readin and spellin classes at my local Junior College
:wave:
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On 2005-06-16 20:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 13:30:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 12:29:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
Like I said schools should stick to acedemics period.
Patriot, the word is spelled academics..... But your lack of spelling ability does kind of inadvertantly prove your point: Schools should be focusing on academics--literacy, math, writing skills, and lay off the social engineering. If schools couldn't teach you to spell properly, I don't think they could appropriately teach sex ed to 5th and 6th graders. Let the little bastards learn from pornographic magazines like we did."
Ok so what are you an English lit major or what? No spelling is not my forte nor are people that make them little selves feel superior in their OWN MIND by pointing it out.
No, I'm not an English lit major, (hell I didn't even graduate college) just someone who likes to taunt illiterate buffoons. Also, the correct grammer would be "people that make their little selves feel better..."
Yes my spelling sucks, But ya know what for a guy who can?t spell for shit or put together a sentence I?ll bet I pay more in taxes quarterly than you make in a year.
Yeah, I hear there's big money in gay porn.
But thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I will pick up some remedial?? spelling? readin and spellin classes at my local Junior College
:wave: "
Paul...is that you behind that bag, wee little man
I can only imagine being a homeless loser sucks. But pull the crack pipe out of your mouth and dick out of your ass and maybe things will get better for you. Smile...Micheal Jackson loves you :lol: [ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2005-06-16 21:15 ]
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On 2005-06-16 19:54:00, Paul wrote:
Can you all spell and understand voluntary?
Can you spell and understand politicians who lie for a living and will say damned near anything... no, way, anything at all to keep those lobby funds flowing?
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
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Well Ginger there is no doubt you will be changing
the system that you fault.
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***Paul...is that you behind that bag, wee little man I can only imagine being a homeless loser sucks. But pull the crack pipe out of your mouth and dick out of your ass and maybe things will get better for you. Smile...Micheal Jackson loves you***
Will Dr. House be right on this one?
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Deborah,
I just clicked onto this site that was mentioned
in the article you posted on a different thread.
Notice their slogan:
Ablechild.org
Parents for Label and Drug Free Education
I guess you don't get it do you?
Perhaps you could look up "label" and learn something?
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Deborah, you got me here, I have no
idea what you are talking about.
I do appreciate the labels though, it
makes you more and more irrelevant,
and you are doing it all to yourself!
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I don't know this reference either?
"Will Dr. House be right on this one?"
Frankly, your entire post seems to be
rather amped up, what is up:
***Paul...is that you behind that bag, wee little man I can only imagine being a homeless loser sucks. But pull the crack pipe out of your mouth and dick out of your ass and maybe things will get better for you. Smile...Micheal Jackson loves you***
Will Dr. House be right on this one?
Hmmm, do I have to respond to these teen rants?
1) I am not homeless
2) I don't smoke crack
3) I don't believe anatomically I could put my dick into my ass, nor am I going to try for your benefit. It is just not relevant to me, sorry.
4) Things are fine with me, thanks for your concern.
5) Smile, ok, got that one!
6) Michael Jackson love me, golly that is wonderful, thanks for the information, I didn't
ask for it, but now that you told me, well jeeperz, it still doesn't matter.
Now your turn:
1) Explain your post?
2) Why so volatile and angry?
3) Why resort to teen banter?
Gotta run and attend an all day meeting with
http://www.cnmhc.org (http://www.cnmhc.org)
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On 2005-06-16 09:01:00, Paul wrote:
"What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?
When someone does get AIDS it is your goverment
with your tax dollars that pays for it.
Do you really think kids don't know about sex,
when you ask them and they deny it? Seriously now.
From what I hear you want to schools to not educate
about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.
Then when someone is diagnosed with a serious and persistant mental illness and they figure out that it started when they where younger you would not suggest that perhaps a screening would have helped this person. You would be satisfied the signs where all there, but the schools where not allowed to address the issue?
Why not? Because one family decided to not open their mail, while the rest of the town received their information on the TeenScreen, that you want
to throw out the whole test. Smart, very smart.
My illness would have shown up earlier in a screening. I wish they had them then, and I support them now. A couple of false positives can easily be figured out in a follow up appointment. These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.
Regarding sex education, so what if they learn these things in school, isn't it better that learning it from the kids in the neighborhood?
How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?"
Public sex education is a couple hours, and takes place when you are in SIXTH GRADE! If you think this is better than parents can provide, WOW.
-
On 2005-06-14 23:27:00, Paul wrote:
"Please post if Deborah's posts have either
helped or hurt anyone?"
I find her posts to be very informative and helpful. Why do you feel the need for this public judgement, or rather, what purpose is this thread to serve, if any? ::crybaby::
-
IMO, public sex education is simply an option for parents too embarassed to teach their own children about sex.
-
Hey Wow, or I mean Anonymous,
What kind of statement is this:
"Public sex education is a couple hours, and takes place when you are in SIXTH GRADE! If you think this is better than parents can provide, WOW."
Did you read somewhere that the government if forbidding the parents from teaching their kids?
I always understood school to be another learning opportunity to augment what happens at home and in a childs life. Am I wrong?
Are you saying parents are restricted to what they can talk to their kids about, or is your statement purposeless?
-
Hey Wow, or I mean Anonymous,
What kind of statement is this:
"Public sex education is a couple hours, and takes place when you are in SIXTH GRADE! If you think this is better than parents can provide, WOW."
Did you read somewhere that the government if forbidding the parents from teaching their kids?
I always understood school to be another learning opportunity to augment what happens at home and in a childs life. Am I wrong?
Are you saying parents are restricted to what they can talk to their kids about, or is your statement purposeless?
-
On 2005-06-18 09:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-14 23:27:00, Paul wrote:
"Please post if Deborah's posts have either
helped or hurt anyone?"
I find her posts to be very informative and helpful. Why do you feel the need for this public judgement, or rather, what purpose is this thread to serve, if any? ::crybaby:: "
You may not have had the opportunity to follow this thread from the beginning. It started when Deborah kept slamming psychiatry, and not offering an alternative.
The correct method of suggesting medical protocols is to "offer" other modalities, not just criticize existing treatment protocols.
Her statements are outrageous. I have had ECT and psychotropic medication, if an uneducated reader seeking mental health treatment read Deborah's posts and Ginger's endorsement they would believe that all ECT treatments and medications cause permanent brain damage.
Well, the 500,000 treatments of ECT per year in this country and the 25 million on psychotropic medications do not have the prevalent brain damage that they so boldly rant about.
So, what is the problem with just letting them go on and on with their believe system. In the case of influencing someone medical treatment whether it be cancer, or mental health the reader should be able to receive un-biased information and make
their own decisions - voluntarily.
When I post the leading organizations for alternative treatments, as a courtesy, to anyone who is seeking that information, Deborah criticized that. There was no winning with her.
For instance Safe Harbor is the largest non-pharma organization. I tried to help them with California's MHSA funding. Deborah criticized that. What is up with her 360-degree angst should really be the question.
Then Deborah contacted Safe Harbor to utilize some information against me, I guess. What really happened is that I was able to provide Wendy, and Dan at Safe Harbor other MHSA sites that have been helpful.
I have enjoyed communicating with them. I am sure Deborah will be critical, and make her slanderous statements toward me, but hey, what I do is what I do. Voluntarily, of course, just as Safe Harbor is voluntarily communicating with me.
There is now a protocol that Safe Harbor can bring to the MHSA process as a result. This is a fantastic development. What I fear is that Wendy and Dan's Scientology not being listed prominently on the Safe Harbor website will backfire as all their front groups do. People get upset when they find out this information, whether it is deception or not. People will just toss out the Scientology based ideas, whether they come from Safe Harbor or other front groups.
Scientology will never change, they will just go on criticizing psychiatry just like Deborah and Ginger regardless of how happy someone is with their treatments, of whatever type they are getting. Thus they just mis-inform the readers or lose their credibility.
Now, again, why did I start this thread?
The last straw was when I realized how many different threads that Timoclea made his opinions known to Deborah and she just slammed his choices.
So enough was enough, and I created this thread.
Please understand, if someone does not want to go to a psychiatrist, fine. If someone does not want to take psychiatric medications, fine.
That is all no controversy, no slamming any organizations or people's current choices.
Choice, that is what it is all about.
Information is the key, the less bias the better. If one is biased, that is ok, if disclosed. If not disclosed then their creditability is in question.
Finally, if you think her posts are helpful, then wonderful.
Say, "yes, I find Deborah very helpful"
That is it, thank you very much.
Now, why is it that you felt the need to question my motivation?
-
On 2005-06-15 18:31:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh, are you shittin' me? Deb provides a great deal of background and research info to these discussions.
Has no one ever done searches on these "resources" and Scientology before?
OK, here is on on Ablechild.org that Deborah uses to post on the thread:
"Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parental Rights"
Search: Ablechild.org Scientology
*
Welcome to our Scientology Resource Library!
... Monks to help others - Dec 22, Scientology.org. Scientology Volunteer Ministry launches New Holiday Hope ... of America. AbleChild.org - parents for label-free, drug-free education ...
http://www.liveandgrow.org/ (http://www.liveandgrow.org/)
*
Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR)
... http://www.ablechild.org (http://www.ablechild.org). Church of Scientology International. http://www.scientology.org (http://www.scientology.org) ...
http://www.cchr.org/feature/directory (http://www.cchr.org/feature/directory)
*
ablechild/breaking news
Breaking News. Tom Cruise Slams Child Psychiatrists. CRUISE LAUNCHES WAR ON PSYCHIATRISTS ... as part of a week-long special about his scientology beliefs, the movie hunk declares, "I'm going right after psychiatry ...
http://www.ablechild.org/alert.htm (http://www.ablechild.org/alert.htm)
*
Senator John Ensign Takes the Lead in Protecting Children
... On our website alone, http://www.ablechild.org (http://www.ablechild.org) we have over 300 signatures of parents nationwide that have ... established by the Church of Scientology in 1969 to investigate and expose ...
http://www.fightforkids.com/press/030728.htm (http://www.fightforkids.com/press/030728.htm)
*
Parents Call on Senate to Prohibit Coerced Psychiatric Drugging in Schools
... similar abuse and coercion on her website http://www.ablechild.org (http://www.ablechild.org), which was written in support of the Child ... founded by the Church of Scientology in 1969 to investigate and expose ...
http://www.fightforkids.org/press/040510.htm (http://www.fightforkids.org/press/040510.htm)
*
Parenting Quotes
Share This Page. Report Abuse. Edit your Site. Browse Sites. " Previous | Top 100 | Next " Jane's Pages. Parenting Quotes
http://members.tripod.com/janeand6-ivil/id13.html (http://members.tripod.com/janeand6-ivil/id13.html)
*
Bush Signs Legislation Prohibiting Forced Medication of Children
... health watchdog established by the Church of Scientology, in applauding Congress for passing precedent-setting ... http://www.ablechild.org/ (http://www.ablechild.org/) [edit on 04/12/5 by ...
http://www.atsnn.com/story/102597.html (http://www.atsnn.com/story/102597.html)
*
Outside The Beltway : Brooke Shields and Tom Cruise in War of the Words
... However, as a dedicated follower of Scientology, Cruise is of the belief that mind-altering medications of any ... http://www.MINDFREEDOM.ORG (http://www.MINDFREEDOM.ORG). http://www.ORTHOMED.ORG (http://www.ORTHOMED.ORG). http://www.ABLECHILD.ORG (http://www.ABLECHILD.ORG) ...
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10811 (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10811)
*
Memos Display Drug Firms
... was particularly unpopular among followers of the Church of Scientology. It was not until this year that ... attacks by the Church of Scientology, which was lobbying to get Prozac ...
http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/me ... rug_firm.. (http://www.ablechild.org/newsarchive/memos_display_drug_firm..).
*
Alex Jones Promotes Scientologist
... from ablechild.org, which is a Scientology-affiliated organization. ... 2005, Ablechild.org attended the awards ceremony of this Scientology front group ...
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/ale ... tes_scie.. (http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/alex_jones_promotes_scie..).
*
Welcome to my website
Ralph Waldo Emerson Check out these links Ablechild.org What is REALLY happening to our money...
http://www.captainjakeman.com/ (http://www.captainjakeman.com/)
*
Keyword
Sean Hannity Promotes Church of Scientology Front Group ... http://www.ablechild.org (http://www.ablechild.org) (845) 677-4118 Sheila Matthews National Vice President...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=adhd (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=adhd)
*
Issue: School Violence - Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR)
Ablechild.org http://www.Ablechild.org (http://www.Ablechild.org) RitalinDeath.com http://www.RitalinDeath.com (http://www.RitalinDeath.com) ... Privacy Policy Established in 1969 by the Church ofScientology ...
http://www.cchr.org/issues/school/reading/ (http://www.cchr.org/issues/school/reading/)
*
Over 500 Parents Say Schools Coerced Them to Administer Psychiatric Drugs to Children
... Weathers' website, AbleChild.org lists the names of parents who report they've been coerced ... 1969 by the Church of Scientology to investigate and expose psychiatric violations ...
http://www.fightforkids.org/press/031113.htm (http://www.fightforkids.org/press/031113.htm)
*
Buffalo Scientology Info
And, yes the Church of Scientology likes to take the credit for people?s successes. ... http://www.ablechild.org/data/thelist.asp (http://www.ablechild.org/data/thelist.asp) ...
http://www.buffaloscientologyinfo.com/interview0.html (http://www.buffaloscientologyinfo.com/interview0.html)
*
Over 500 Parents Say Schools Coerced Them to Administer Psychiatric...
Mrs. Weathers' website, AbleChild.org lists the names of parents who report they've been ... in 1969 by the Church of Scientology to investigate...
http://www.fightforkids.com/press/031113.htm (http://www.fightforkids.com/press/031113.htm)
*
Celebrities Urge Senate to Move on Bill Against Forced Psychiatric...
...organization, Parents for a Label and Drug Free Education (AbleChild.org.) She is frequently ... established by the Church of Scientology in...
http://www.cchr.org/press/2004/040229.htm (http://www.cchr.org/press/2004/040229.htm)
*
RehabNZ/ Criminal Rehabilitation. Improving Society. Drugs. Drug Rehabilitation & Training.
Links. Scripps Alcohol Treatment Center. Scripps McDonald Center is a nationally recognized organization dedicated to alcohol treatment. The Vitamins And Nutrition Centre
http://www.rehabnz.co.nz/pages/links.html (http://www.rehabnz.co.nz/pages/links.html)
-
On 2005-06-18 09:55:00, Paul wrote:
"Hey Wow, or I mean Anonymous,
What kind of statement is this:
"Public sex education is a couple hours, and takes place when you are in SIXTH GRADE! If you think this is better than parents can provide, WOW."
Did you read somewhere that the government if forbidding the parents from teaching their kids?
I always understood school to be another learning opportunity to augment what happens at home and in a childs life. Am I wrong?
Are you saying parents are restricted to what they can talk to their kids about, or is your statement purposeless?"
Um, no I didn't say that at all. Thanks for trying to put words in everyone else's mouth though. You don't want a debate, you simply want to try and prove everyone else wrong. I am not sure of your motive, but these threads are a waste of time. Have a good life Paul.
-
On 2005-06-21 09:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-18 09:55:00, Paul wrote:
"Hey Wow, or I mean Anonymous,
What kind of statement is this:
"Public sex education is a couple hours, and takes place when you are in SIXTH GRADE! If you think this is better than parents can provide, WOW."
Um, no I didn't say that at all. Thanks for trying to put words in everyone else's mouth though. You don't want a debate, you simply want to try and prove everyone else wrong. I am not sure of your motive, but these threads are a waste of time. Have a good life Paul."
I was responding to your statement in the quote above ...
I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, just to state the facts.
-
***You may not have had the opportunity to follow this thread from the beginning. It started when Deborah kept slamming psychiatry, and not offering an alternative.
I?ve been posting here for 4+ years and although I?m not obligated to ?offer alternatives? if I ?slam? psychiatry, I have posted links to many alternative sites.
***The correct method of suggesting medical protocols is to "offer" other modalities, not just criticize existing treatment protocols.
You?re full of it Paul. The majority of my contributions to this subject are articles and/or quotes from professionals. And my opinion, which I am entitled to. I am bound by no industry ethic. I am not practicing without a license.
***Her statements are outrageous. I have had ECT and psychotropic medication, if an uneducated reader seeking mental health treatment read Deborah's posts and Ginger's endorsement they would believe that all ECT treatments and medications cause permanent brain damage.
Provide the url?s to support this exaggeration.
***Well, the 500,000 treatments of ECT per year in this country and the 25 million on psychotropic medications do not have the prevalent brain damage that they so boldly rant about.
That may be the case. And there are lots of flatliners and people with very poor memories. Have you noticed a problem with this?
***So, what is the problem with just letting them go on and on with their believe system. In the case of influencing someone medical treatment whether it be cancer, or mental health the reader should be able to receive un-biased information and make their own decisions - voluntarily.
That?s what I?ve been saying to you since our interaction began. You can not tolerate criticism of the industry. Hell, you can't even tolerate articles that expose the industry. ?I? am not influencing anyone?s ?medical treatment?although, those I cite, may. I?d love to have a front row seat at the debate between you and several PhD psych professionals I know. It would be a KO in the first round.
***When I post the leading organizations for alternative treatments, as a courtesy, to anyone who is seeking that information, Deborah criticized that. There was no winning with her.
Which organizations? url?
***For instance Safe Harbor is the largest non-pharma organization. I tried to help them with California's MHSA funding. Deborah criticized that. What is up with her 360-degree angst should really be the question.
Pauly dear, I realize your memory isn?t up to par, and your emotional attachment to this issue prevents you from thinking clearly. But, here?s how it went down. You attacked me for 'selectively promoting' certain alternatives, and specifically for not ?promoting? SH. When I provided a couple of url?s then your attack became focus on SH. I thought I?d check out your claims and contacted SH. Bottom line, I think you?re trying to be a detective?. And people who are not good detectives should stick to just asking point blank questions. You appear fairly rational, but if one follows your comments on the SH topic, it appears you?re pro one day, and con the next. You claim to refer people to them, then attack them as the enemy.
***Then Deborah contacted Safe Harbor to utilize some information against me, I guess.
Paranoia Paul. When you post on a public forum, it becomes public information. I quoted you verbatim. Please humor me and tell me what ?information? you think I used against you.
***What really happened is that I was able to provide Wendy, and Dan at Safe Harbor other MHSA sites that have been helpful.
Oh, here we go. Now you support SH getting funding.
***There is now a protocol that Safe Harbor can bring to the MHSA process as a result. This is a fantastic development. What I fear is that Wendy and Dan's Scientology not being listed prominently on the Safe Harbor website will backfire as all their front groups do.
Let?s be honest, for the sake of being honest. Isn?t it more accurate to state that you ?hope?, not ?fear?. And you now support them being funded inspite of the fact that their methods aren't 'evidence based' and they 'deceive' the public by not disclosing their religion.... Your wishy-washy sometimes borders on schizy-schazy, Colombo.
***Scientology will never change, they will just go on criticizing psychiatry just like Deborah and Ginger regardless of how happy someone is with their treatments, of whatever type they are getting. Thus they just mis-inform the readers or lose their credibility.
Just like Deborah and Ginger and many more of all different races, religions, and persuasions. You just can?t seem to get it, that your right to psychiatric treatment is not in jeopardy, nor is anyone else?s. I do believe that people are not getting accurate or adequate information from their doctors, therefore aren?t making genuinely informed decisions. If you think the articles/opinions I post are ?misinformation? then prove it. And stop the whining and attacks on me, it?s just pathetic.
***The last straw was when I realized how many different threads that Timoclea made his opinions known to Deborah and she just slammed his choices. So enough was enough, and I created this thread.
Url please. The ?correct method? for accusing someone is to post the url to support your claim. FYI, Timoclea is a woman.
***Please understand, if someone does not want to go to a psychiatrist, fine. If someone does not want to take psychiatric medications, fine. That is all no controversy, no slamming any organizations or people's current choices. Choice, that is what it is all about.
Amen, brother. We agree on that point.
***Information is the key, the less bias the better. If one is biased, that is ok, if disclosed. If not disclosed then their creditability is in question.
Paul, this is the crux of your difficulty, I believe, with this issue. You label anything other than what comes from the industry as ?biased? misinformation, and consider everything they say to be the truth. That?s just not the case.
***OK, here is on on Ablechild.org that Deborah uses to post on the thread: "Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parental Rights" Search: Ablechild.org Scientology
Are you implying that Ablechild is a front group for Scientology, Paul? Or attempting to discredit them for having a similar mission? Why don?t you contact the ladies at Ablechild and just ask a direct question. While you?re at it, ask them why they are so opposed to the industry. Ask them how the industry harmed/killed their children. Then post their reply. Paul there really are many, many people who are anti-psych who aren?t Scientologists. I guess it?s probably easier for you to imagine only one ?enemy?, but it?s just not the case.
I ditto Anon?s comment:
Um, no I didn't say that at all. Thanks for trying to put words in everyone else's mouth though. You don't want a debate, you simply want to try and prove everyone else wrong. I am not sure of your motive, but these threads are a waste of time. Have a good life Paul.
-
It is all pretty simple.
If you would have made posts about treatments,
regardless of what they are, that are different
than the currently accepted practices, then
you would not have received any posts from me.
---
If you had made posts about how to opt-out of
any school program then I would have believed
you to be an advocate helping people.
---
You don't do that.
------------------------------------------------
Regarding my post about ablechild.org and Scientology, my reference was posted, refer
to that not me. Just as you ask of me.
---
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Paul
-
"***For instance Safe Harbor is the largest non-pharma organization. I tried to help them with California's MHSA funding. Deborah criticized that. What is up with her 360-degree angst should really be the question.
Pauly dear, I realize your memory isn?t up to par, and your emotional attachment to this issue prevents you from thinking clearly. But, here?s how it went down. You attacked me for 'selectively promoting' certain alternatives, and specifically for not ?promoting? SH. When I provided a couple of url?s then your attack became focus on SH. I thought I?d check out your claims and contacted SH. Bottom line, I think you?re trying to be a detective?. And people who are not good detectives should stick to just asking point blank questions. You appear fairly rational, but if one follows your comments on the SH topic, it appears you?re pro one day, and con the next. You claim to refer people to them, then attack them as the enemy."
Ok, I guess I have not made myself clear.
I am against anyone who invalidates anothers experience. That is all.
Safe Harbor doing protocols on food and mental illness if fine. Safe Harbor being critical of people who utilize another kind of treatment style
is not good. Safe Harbor not being upfront about being run by Scientologist and their dogma influenced by it is bad.
My ability to refer those looking for a nutritional answer to their mental illness is easy, I tell them the largest group is Safe Harbor. They are run by Scientologist, one doesn't need to be a Scientologist to participate with Safe Harbor, but should know the hierarchy.
If the person who is asking me wants to call them,
that is their choice. I feel comfortable referring poeple to whatever they want if I have the information available.
Now panning Safe Harbor's potential protocol to California's Mental Health Services Act. They have what could be a good thing. If they introduce it without identifying themselves as Scientologist it probably won't fly. If they are upfront it might.
That is all, not complicated, no conspiracy on my part. Pretty simple stuff.
I don't ridicule anyone's doing anything. I do step in and ask that they don't invalidate another's experience. I guess I didn't make myself clear in the past on Fornit's. If that is the case, I apologize.
---
Regarding your thinking or accusing me of being a detective? Now what are you talking about?
-
***Safe Harbor doing protocols on food and mental illness if fine. Safe Harbor being critical of people who utilize another kind of treatment style is not good. Safe Harbor not being upfront about being run by Scientologist and their dogma influenced by it is bad.
It's late, so I might have missed it... but it doesn't appear to me that SH does any 'prescribing' of any particular 'protocol'. They seem to cite and refer to professionals, link to information, provide testimonials, etc. In the 'find a practitioner, there is at least two doctors listed in my state who I know are not Scientologists.
What part of their 'protocol' do you believe to be 'Scientologist dogma'? I know little, but saw nothing of that nature. No specific 'protocol'.
If they were not promoting Scientology 'protocol', why do you feel the individuals should divulge their religion?
-
Not sure why that post came through as Anon, but that was me.
-
On 2005-06-25 23:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"***Safe Harbor doing protocols on food and mental illness if fine. Safe Harbor being critical of people who utilize another kind of treatment style is not good. Safe Harbor not being upfront about being run by Scientologist and their dogma influenced by it is bad.
It's late, so I might have missed it... but it doesn't appear to me that SH does any 'prescribing' of any particular 'protocol'. They seem to cite and refer to professionals, link to information, provide testimonials, etc. In the 'find a practitioner, there is at least two doctors listed in my state who I know are not Scientologists.
What part of their 'protocol' do you believe to be 'Scientologist dogma'? I know little, but saw nothing of that nature. No specific 'protocol'.
If they were not promoting Scientology 'protocol', why do you feel the individuals should divulge their religion?"
Good point! Perhaps their website does not reflect that they are influenced by COS.
During a personal dialog, via email, there was
a discussion of a mutual person that we know
who is doing poorly.
It was stated that it was because he was on medications.
I corrected that statement to state that he was
not on medications, nor the supplement regimin.
The metioning of medications causing the whole
problem continued.
I then had to respond that this person got sick
first, prior to any medications and that it was
innapropriate to blame all the problems on medication that came after the illness manifested.
That is when an otherwise intelligent person, who I enjoy corresponding with is influenced by COS dogma.
That is my opinion, that is all.
The Safe Harbor website most likely does not reflect this, I stand corrected.
Regarding why should they divulge their religion?
The COS is so controversial on their anti-psychiatry position and their use of front groups so prevelant that if it is not divulged it is my belief that the individual seeking Safe Harbor's information and referrals will feel deceived.
Thanks for brining it up.
-
On 2005-06-25 21:43:00, Deborah wrote:
***OK, here is on on Ablechild.org that Deborah uses to post on the thread: "Mental Health Screening in Schools Signals the End of Parental Rights" Search: Ablechild.org Scientology
"
For your information.
I have been searching daily for a news account of Ayalla Kaufman's story. So far no third party news accounts have appeared.
I just did another search and this showed up, a press release, not a news article.
http://www.prleap.com/pr/9352/ (http://www.prleap.com/pr/9352/)
Hey, there is Annie Armen's link ...
http://www.ablechild.org/videolinks.htm (http://www.ablechild.org/videolinks.htm)
-
Ok, I really shouldn't have to go to this much trouble to get you to quit misusing my server. And now that I think I've probably at least made it inconvenient for you to ignore my requests, now you decide to engage in some conversation?
Paul, PM me. If you promise to quit flooding, I'll lift those bans. If you continue to flood (even if you take an occasional break and add something meaningful) I'll take it to your isp.
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
--Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect
-
***Now panning Safe Harbor's potential protocol to California's Mental Health Services Act. They have what could be a good thing. If they introduce it without identifying themselves as Scientologist it probably won't fly. If they are upfront it might.
I am not the person to defend or speak for Scientology, so don't' assume that is what I'm doing.
Just a point of clarification-
Why wouldn't it 'fly' if they don't idenitfy their religion?
I would like to understand the thinking behind your disdain. CofS if a legally sanctioned religious organization, correct?
Are you implying that MHSA might discrimination in terms of SH not receiving these funds- if they otherwise qualify- due to the owner/officers religious affliation?
Are Christian groups required to divulge their religious affiliation and which group has influenced their thinking? Afterall, they are some of the most dangerously violent people on the planet, in case you haven't noticed.
Sounds to me, like you may be supporting/
suspecting discrimination here. Or is there something else you have 'forgotten' to tell?
Paul, I'm beginning to think you just talk to be talking. If you'd read my posts you'd know that I have posted information on alternative treatment AND articles on how to opt out of the screening programs.... unfortunately, I have also posted articles that expose that it is not being implimented as it is supposed to be.
Many of the Ablechild/Scientology links you posted don't work. Can you offer a clear, concise statement regarding the point you're trying to make about the two? I wouldn't want to misrepresent your intention when I contact them to let them know your on a public forum slandering them without giving them the benefit of a response to your suspicions. By the way, I have a copy of a statement from them in which they have addressed this issue. I know their position, but I think you should ask yourself and stop assuming.
-
On 2005-06-26 15:41:00, Deborah wrote:
"***Now panning Safe Harbor's potential protocol to California's Mental Health Services Act. They have what could be a good thing. If they introduce it without identifying themselves as Scientologist it probably won't fly. If they are upfront it might.
Deborah,
Sorry but I won't be buying into your controversy baiting. It is simpler. The services are going to
be voted on by committees set up in each county.
The committee members have no conflict of interest
positions, it is up to them.
Once again, as I stated in my original post, it is my opinion, and the same one I always post about why people get so upset when they find out after the fact that they have been working with a group affiliated with COS.
Once again, it is not because of the dogma of Scientology, but rather being mislead. Got it?
---
Regarding ablechild.org, I refer you back once again to the search wich I posted verbatim. If it incorrect blame the search engine company, I believe it is google that I used, and blame the outdated links. I posted my resource on this subject, now to not be redundant, I am done on this topic, ok!
Thank you,
Paul
-
Paul, PM me. If you promise to quit flooding, I'll lift those bans.
Ginger,
I appreciate the opportunity you gave me to clarify the issues, and for you to explain what flooding was.
To the Fornits Community,
For all to know, I don't post to boards like these so I am a novice at protocol and etiquette. I do
utilize listservs, but I am unfamiliar with rules of a board like this.
I hope there will be no problems in the future, if I am breaking the rules of Fornit's a simple PM, or a post of constructive criticism and explaining how to do it right will clear everything.
I guess I am like most people and respond to insults poorly.
Paul
-
On 2005-06-16 10:59:00, thepatriot wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 09:01:00, Paul wrote:
"What is your solution to not teaching sex ed?
When someone does get AIDS it is your goverment
with your tax dollars that pays for it.
Do you really think kids don't know about sex,
when you ask them and they deny it? Seriously now.
From what I hear you want to schools to not educate
about sex, not to screen for mental illness, correct.
Then when someone is diagnosed with a serious and persistant mental illness and they figure out that it started when they where younger you would not suggest that perhaps a screening would have helped this person. You would be satisfied the signs where all there, but the schools where not allowed to address the issue?
Why not? Because one family decided to not open their mail, while the rest of the town received their information on the TeenScreen, that you want
to throw out the whole test. Smart, very smart.
My illness would have shown up earlier in a screening. I wish they had them then, and I support them now. A couple of false positives can easily be figured out in a follow up appointment. These tests are simply information to be used as the family wishes, not a branding on one's forhead.
Regarding sex education, so what if they learn these things in school, isn't it better that learning it from the kids in the neighborhood?
How did you learn about sex? Should we all learn the way you did?"
Ok so lets teach 6th graders about oral sex, give me a break WTF. Thats the problem with our education system, they have forgotten about Math,Science ,Reading instead they are more interested in teaching your 12 year old how to give a blow job, how to masturbate(like any kid can't figure that out on his own). Or the big one why Suzi has two mommies. And they wonder why the system is a failure."
If a child is raped by an older student/or other, and forced to perform oral sex, and the kid doesn't know what happened to them, or are told by the rapist to think that what they (the child) did was wrong, then you have a problem. Not when schools are trying to be responsible and reasonable when some parents just aren't. Kids are exposed to sex and sexually related conversation starting around 12 years of age (many times much younger) by older kids, their peers or siblings and 6th grade is not too young to understand sex. Knowledge is a powerful thing, and sex education (in my opinion) can protect many a child.
As far as screening goes - like Paul said, what if early detection helps the child greatly in the long run? Not every government program for children out there is a horrible awful program driven by a giant money-making-monster-machine. Early screening of a child with a serious mental disorder could help them get a foothold in what might be a life-long affliction for them.
I for one trust and believe in the science of psychiatry. Psychiatry has provided tools in my life that have been helpful and growth producing. I'm grateful for the self-awareness I've gained through the years of seeing a good psychoanalyst. Just because I was caught up in a terrible money making scam like all the programs still out there today, doesn't mean I see all psychiatric approaches as bad too.
Brainwashing/cultic-snake-oil-remedies are bad, but neurology and psychiatry are both fascinating and illuminating. Drug companies are evil, but the scientific objective is to help, not hurt. Yesss some doctors rely too much on meds and less on time with theirs patients, and yes it?s hard to find decent help (good shrinks are sometimes hard to come by) but many psychologist/psychiatrists actually do help.
In all honestly, I think most adults could use a good psychoanalyst in their lives.
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
Mark Twain
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
001010, I'm sure there are some good and helpful shrinks out there. I'm equally sure there are not enough of them to competenly treat every school aged child in the entire country. And I'm 100% sure that if we turn loose the monumental funding to carry off this mad hatter plan and administer it through our highly politicized public school system, it will be a total disaster.
If someone thinks their kid needs a shrink, then it's up to them to find qualified, competent (both! not either or) help for their child. Asking the school system to do this for us is a huge mistake! Forcing all of us to foot the bill for it involuntarily is just plain wrong!
The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-06-27 10:56:00, Antigen wrote:
Forcing all of us to foot the bill for it involuntarily is just plain wrong!
The way I would say this is that our elected representatives voted for funding the bill.
-
Some people are of the opinion that the gang of 500 has made some terrible choices over the past 100 years or so.
It is criminal to steal a purse. It is daring to steal a fortune. It is a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases
--Schiller (1759-1805)
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On 2005-06-27 11:06:00, Antigen wrote:
"Some people are of the opinion that the gang of 500 has made some terrible choices over the past 100 years or so.
Absolutely, and the worst part is we, the voters
keep on electing them ... to represent us!
-
Paul, am I correct in assuming that you think shrinks hired by the PS system should be allowed to enter into dr/pt relationships w/ children without parental consent?
Do you think that the government should properly have custody of all children by default, not the parents?
What, if anything, should the government not be permitted to do to children w/o parental consent?
Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.
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On 2005-06-27 11:11:00, Antigen wrote:
"Paul, am I correct in assuming that you think shrinks hired by the PS system should be allowed to enter into dr/pt relationships w/ children without parental consent?
Do you think that the government should properly have custody of all children by default, not the parents?
What, if anything, should the government not be permitted to do to children w/o parental consent?
No to the first two.
Frankly even asking me these questions when
I never came close to stating these positions
is an accusation. I will answer now, but not
engage myself in yet another potential flooding
discussion.
The answer to number three, I think is best relayed your situation. I believe you have
homeschooled kids. You had and have that freedom.
The government, you will have to correct me, is
not influencing your actions or decision to homeschool. So the answer is that I would like you
to have the same freedom you chose to have now.
Regarding not being willing to repeat back to me what I have posted time and time again, and choosing to twist it into an accusation. That is
your choice, and frankly, makes me wonder if Deborah is not your alter ego.
I believe in a person's right to voluntary rights.
If they are violated I support their right to process the complaint to regain the voluntary rights. Just like we do here in little ole San Diego.
I also support the right for people to understand their rights.
OK, got it!!!
-
On 2005-06-27 10:56:00, Antigen wrote:
"001010, I'm sure there are some good and helpful shrinks out there. I'm equally sure there are not enough of them to competenly treat every school aged child in the entire country. And I'm 100% sure that if we turn loose the monumental funding to carry off this mad hatter plan and administer it through our highly politicized public school system, it will be a total disaster.
If someone thinks their kid needs a shrink, then it's up to them to find qualified, competent (both! not either or) help for their child. Asking the school system to do this for us is a huge mistake! Forcing all of us to foot the bill for it involuntarily is just plain wrong!
The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;"
Well, I certainly see where you're coming from, and I know that there are special programs already out there that screen kids who appear to have special needs. I don't know anything about the "madhatter-plan" but if we're talking about younger children who are testing low, and the teacher-parent decision being to screen them then that's not always a bad thing. This subject is tainted in the first place because for 20-some-odd years now ADD drugs such as Ritilin (and family) have been getting shoved down the throats of children as if every child who just isn't functioning in school needs a jump start (literally) with prescription speed. ADD is a product of the home environment in my opinion. Drugging a kid isn?t going to change that. I say give your kids hugs not drugs. They?ll find both either way regardless. :wink:
The problem with many parents is that they scapegoat their children into being the "problem" when it's really the parent/s who is the source of the trouble. Say... leaving out that fact that they verbally abuse/physically abused/sexually abused/neglected the child. Sadly, people with money can do that but people with money don't rely on the system to help their kids do they? They hire professionals! :lol:
So, the system having a foot in the door of a young child?s mental health. I think it would honestly depend on a city by city, state by state basis. The truth is that some people are in the business for the good ? while others just want to make a dirty dollar.
As far as the sex education in 6th grade ? like I said, knowledge is power. I asked my daughter just a few minutes ago when she first remembers hearing about sex from a peer, and from both of our recollection she was about 6 years of age. Six years down the road she has a class about the facts? Sounds healthy to me, and as a parent, if it didn?t I could have her removed from the class and put in a different class for that 45 minutes. I believe a negotiation could be made with the school.
I stay in contact with all of my daughter?s teachers though out the school year. I make sure in the beginning of the year they know I?m very involved in her academic experience. I think each individual parent needs to own the responsibility of getting involved, and know what is going on in every aspect of their child?s development, and if we as parents don?t like how something is going, we should take action to change it.
We will make mistakes. Learning from them doesn't make us heros. It only gives us a passing grade on the evolutionary scale.
Antigen
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
001010,
You missed the point. Easy to do since the topic was derailed from 'Sex Survey' to 'Sex Education'.
The issue was that 6th graders participated in a Sex 'Survey' without their parents knowledge or consent.
If it is appropriate for kids to be educated on the nitty-gritty specifics of sex in school, it certainly should be done with more thought than giving them a survey to ascertain when they last had sex, gave a blow job, had anal sex, and if they wore a condom.
That is not 'education'. That is information gathering, and for who's benefit?
Further, the parents were not allowed to view the survey, for fear they might 'misinterpret' the questions. I guess the district assumes their 11 year olds comprehend the subject matter better than their parents. :lol: :lol: :lol:
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-06-27 12:41 ]
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Oh Deb, you do need to know a bit more about the clams if you're going to build a sensible position on psychiatry and drugging. Just take a walk through Clearwater anytime you wish. There are always flyers posted by families and friends looking for missing people. COS has been deemed a cult in most industrialized countries. That's fact. It's unwise to trust their information sources. In a word, they make WWASP look like church ladies by comparison when it comes to slapp suits.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
-
Deb, Where did you read/hear about this survey?
(And sorry to jump in in the middle here)I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
The only thing we should be teaching kids is to worship Satan.
-
On 2005-06-27 12:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh Deb, you do need to know a bit more about the clams if you're going to build a sensible position on psychiatry and drugging. Just take a walk through Clearwater anytime you wish. There are always flyers posted by families and friends looking for missing people. COS has been deemed a cult in most industrialized countries. That's fact. It's unwise to trust their information sources. In a word, they make WWASP look like church ladies by comparison when it comes to slapp suits.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
"
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scien ... en413.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien413.html)
"Scientology is quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic, the most litigious and the most lucrative cult the country has ever seen. No cult extracts more money from its members."
-- Cynthia Kisser, former Executive Director, Cult Awareness Network. Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
Actually, the Stepcult is even more insidious than Ron's bunch of geeks. Scientologists don't get other churches to give them space for recruiting and meetings, the Stepcult does.
By the way, teach children to worship Satan.
-
Sex Survey
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =40#109909 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10271&forum=9&start=40#109909)
-
That's a little broad to be called a "sex survey" and the kids don't put personal info on them. I honestly don't think that's inappropriate for a 6th grader. They should know what sex is by then, it's not like they're passing out porn.
Also, that's a Christian-based website, and I thought you were against Christianity? :???:
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
Regardless
I don't pay attention to surveys done to define "AT RISK" behaviors in adolescents to begin with...
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
-
What difference does that make? Somebody's going to a lot of trouble to gather this data. Somebody's paying attention to it. Who do you suppose that is? And what are they doing with it?
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
-
Using it to spread propaganda and Drug War hype perhaps?
The words "AT RISK" kinda give that away.
The article is attacking the survey from a much different angle. I have a hard time believing parents couldn't see the things if they wanted to, but still, the words "intercourse" or "condom" aren't sins to say to a child in their appropriate (for that age group) contexts. It is strange to not ask parental consent, though. I suppose that?s part of what you sign up for with a public education, and why many parents choose private schools, religious schools, or home school.
The question is does the survey serve to hurt or help? I think it could go both ways. Information in&of it?s self is a good thing. It depends on the recipient and how it's used in the end...
If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker
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On 2005-06-27 12:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh Deb, you do need to know a bit more about the clams if you're going to build a sensible position on psychiatry and drugging. Just take a walk through Clearwater anytime you wish. There are always flyers posted by families and friends looking for missing people. COS has been deemed a cult in most industrialized countries. That's fact. It's unwise to trust their information sources. In a word, they make WWASP look like church ladies by comparison when it comes to slapp suits.
Wow, Ginger, sometimes you have such a sweet way with words. What a nice way to approach Deborah on this subject.
I would like to add, and I wish I had your tact, that Deborah has stated that she is not involved at all with the mentally ill.
She is only, IMHO, the biggest know it all, regarding the mentally ill on this board. Strange for someone who doesn't deal with us. I wonder what drives her so hard on this topic.
The clients movement in mental health gets pretty darn mad when people without any involvement preach to them. I am very passive on this subject, others are not so ...
-
On 2005-06-27 12:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh Deb, you do need to know a bit more about the clams if you're going to build a sensible position on psychiatry and drugging. Just take a walk through Clearwater anytime you wish. There are always flyers posted by families and friends looking for missing people. COS has been deemed a cult in most industrialized countries. That's fact. It's unwise to trust their information sources. In a word, they make WWASP look like church ladies by comparison when it comes to slapp suits.
Sorry to quote you a second time, but it is important ... to me.
Your statement:
On 2005-06-15 18:31:00, Antigen wrote:
"Oh, are you shittin' me? Deb provides a great deal of background and research info to these discussions.
Carried a lot of influence to me. I know that is my choice to take what you state seriously, but regardless it did.
I don't want to pile on Deborah here about her motivation for using infomation generated by Scientology, or her knowledge of the COS, or lack thereof, but if she hadn't been tossing these references around like it was from her heart this whole flaming Scientology episode on Fornits would not have happened.
There is a silver lining, it did motivate me to read up on the COS, and now I do no more. For that I am grateful, but I wish it could have happened in a more benign manner.
-
Paul,
Post the url in which I ?preached? to you or anyone else in the ?client movement?. I?m really getting sick of refuting your outright lies and misunderstandings. FYI, I am really not interested in debating or discussing your, or anyone else?s, personal choice regarding their mental health OR in trying to persuade you in any particular direction. I really couldn?t care less when the day is done if you take drugs or not.
For about the third time now, I will repeat?.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =50#112761 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10408&forum=22&start=50#112761)
That?s right Paul? insinuate that all the information I share is generated by scientology, when in fact it is a small percentage, which is supported by non-scientologists. Flame them all you want. Stop attacking me. I feel certain you do this because you can?t refute the valid information that I post. It?s easier to ?discredit? me. Ho hum
-
On 2005-06-27 17:00:00, Deborah wrote:
FYI, I am really not interested in debating or discussing your, or anyone else?s, personal choice regarding their mental health
"
Halleluhea, does this mean we are done!!!
-
On 2005-06-27 17:00:00, Deborah wrote:
Post the url in which I ?preached? to you or anyone else in the ?client movement?.
I think the way you should look at yourself in this issue would be to feel how the participants of Fornit's would feel if someone not involved in this behavioral modification industry, ***at all***, came on and said hey, you all needed it, the past is the past, now get on with your lives and stop complaining.
-
Well, if you mean, am I going to stop posting, No. If you mean, are we done interacting. That's up to you. If you hadn't orchestrated an attack on me personally, chances are very good that I wouldn't have interacted with you directly at all. Here's a deal... Argue the 'expert' opinions I post but don't engage me directly and I will be very happy to do the same. I don't enjoy interacting with you.
-
***I think the way you should look at yourself in this issue would be to feel how the participants of Fornit's would feel if someone not involved in this behavioral modification industry, ***at all***, came on and said hey, you all needed it, the past is the past, now get on with your lives and stop complaining.
Paul, you are just way too emotionally invested and charged by the topic to be objective or rational. I don't recall every having ridiculed you or anyone else specifically about your choice.
I do ridicule the industry. And I don't think you can seperate the two. If I ridicule the industry, you take it as an attack on you personally. Can you not distinguish the difference. Get over it dude. You are not the industry.
Here's a challenge buddy. See if you can go a week without typing my name. In other words blab all you want but not to me or about me. I bet you can't do it, but hope you do. I'm tired of being your boogie man.
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On 2005-06-27 20:12:00, Deborah wrote:
"***I think the way you should look at yourself in this issue would be to feel how the participants of Fornit's would feel if someone not involved in this behavioral modification industry, ***at all***, came on and said hey, you all needed it, the past is the past, now get on with your lives and stop complaining.
Paul, you are just way too emotionally invested and charged by the topic to be objective or rational. I don't recall every having ridiculed you or anyone else specifically about your choice.
I do ridicule the industry. And I don't think you can seperate the two. If I ridicule the industry, you take it as an attack on you personally. Can you not distinguish the difference. Get over it dude. You are not the industry.
Here's a challenge buddy. See if you can go a week without typing my name. In other words blab all you want but not to me or about me. I bet you can't do it, but hope you do. I'm tired of being your boogie man.
"
Deborah, you have been at this for so long, wow!
Congratulations, you certainly know what you are talking about and your respect for others to make
their own medical choice is so stong, and indisputable that I can add nothing more ...
-
On 2005-06-27 13:24:00, 001010 wrote:
"That's a little broad to be called a "sex survey" and the kids don't put personal info on them. I honestly don't think that's inappropriate for a 6th grader. They should know what sex is by then, it's not like they're passing out porn.
Also, that's a Christian-based website, and I thought you were against Christianity? :wink:
You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job
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On 2005-06-27 12:39:00, Deborah wrote:
"001010,
You missed the point. Easy to do since the topic was derailed from 'Sex Survey' to 'Sex Education'.
The issue was that 6th graders participated in a Sex 'Survey' without their parents knowledge or consent.
If it is appropriate for kids to be educated on the nitty-gritty specifics of sex in school, it certainly should be done with more thought than giving them a survey to ascertain when they last had sex, gave a blow job, had anal sex, and if they wore a condom.
That is not 'education'. That is information gathering, and for who's benefit?
Further, the parents were not allowed to view the survey, for fear they might 'misinterpret' the questions. I guess the district assumes their 11 year olds comprehend the subject matter better than their parents. :lol: :lol: :lol:
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-06-27 12:41 ]"
You're right.If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
--Thomas Jefferson
-
On 2005-06-27 19:20:00, Deborah wrote:
"
Argue the 'expert' opinions I post."
Ginger told me to post my items once, that is it.
What is up with you posting essentially the same
topic over and over again by these 'expert' resources?
Once is enough.
How about going by Gingers request too?
-
Dude, take it up with Ginger.
Your desperation to silence the 'opposition' (truth) is too obvious.
What's taking up unnecessary bandwidth and derailing the discussion is posts necessary to contradict your erroneous assumptions and allegations.
-
On 2005-06-30 19:48:00, Deborah wrote:
"
Dude, take it up with Ginger.
Your desperation to silence the 'opposition' (truth) is too obvious.
What's taking up unnecessary bandwidth and derailing the discussion is posts necessary to contradict your erroneous assumptions and allegations.
"
I never said to silence it. I offer people the
best referral that I can. Find me the post where
I said to be silent, show me.
I don't invalidate the 25 million that are satisfied with their psychiatric care, you do, why?
How did you say it: silence the 'opposition' (truth). I am not in some sort of sport, are you?
There are no sides, these are poeople's lives.
There are choices, let people make them.
I help people that ask questions. If I know of a referral I offer it. I don't criticize or influence their choices. Why is it so necessary for you?
I did take it up with Ginger. She said post it
once and that is it. You on the other hand ...
---
BTW - you asked that person you preferred to hear
here own experience with medications, and which one. Are you going to provide us with the same courtesy?
Which medications have you taken?
What is your involvement with individuals with mental illness? I know in the paste you said none to this question. Has it changed?
Have you been with a symptomatic mentally ill patient since I last asked you?
-
Who ?IS? Paul? Curious?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9#114154 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10711&forum=9#114154)
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Deb, perhaps you need some of Pauls's meds so you stop harrasing him!
-
Paul, I have some questions for you.
1: Paul, a regular around here.
Why?
2: For those who don't understand my position, on all subjects: Understand the law and your rights.
I do. I don't understand you, or your insatiable need to condem, and castigate others.
Make sure you have the freedom of choice.
I do. I don't understand your desire to remove others freedoms, by attacking and castigating them. You don't appear to follow your own rules. Perhaps you'd care to explain.
Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.
Your information comes from where? How am I to be sure it's unbiased? From your style of posting, and your incessant need to condemn others, it seems everything you say is biased, and tainted. Care to address this inconsistency?
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On 2005-07-02 06:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Paul, I have some questions for you.
Your information comes from where? How am I to be sure it's unbiased? From your style of posting, and your incessant need to condemn others, it seems everything you say is biased, and tainted. Care to address this inconsistency?"
Well, let's see here anonymous, when I post click the link to see where it came from.
I condem others? Really.
Asking others not to invalidate any treatment they chose for mental illness ... are you sure that is condemming.
I think everything I say is linear, and clear.
Do you read what I post with foggy glasses on or something? It is not that complicated.
Like I said, I believe there is a comprehension problem not a content problem.
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Oh of course, Paul! We're all wrong, mistaken, too stupid to understand your exquisite postulations. It's all so clear now! We're all mentally ill and in need of your services. Why, if you could only get us all on drugs, then we'd all agree w/ your brilliant assessments and conclusions.
:roll: I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
--Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect
-
Why, if you could only get us all on drugs, then we'd all agree w/ your brilliant assessments and conclusions.
"
Nah, Ginger, I've pretty much done every drug I can get my hands on, and I still think he's a fucking idiot.
-
Well then, you must be taking the wrong drugs! Try some SSRIs or some regent quality amphetamines. If those don't help you come to admire and respect everything that proceedeth from the frantic keyboard of our resident helper, never fear! Maybe you're just psychotic and we have a whole line of antipsychotic drugs to try out on you. Failing that, you might try staring into a fluorescent light for while. That'll help you see more clearly. Be patient! It's a matter of trial and error...
A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;