Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => Topic started by: Badad on December 08, 2006, 10:31:42 PM
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New here.
Im a father of a 14 year old boy who reminds me of myself. Except I was already a major pot head at 11 years old. I Hated anyone with authority. Planned on a career of selling drugs and corruption blah blah blah . Was emancipated at 17. And have completely fucked my life up. My sisters are doctors. Im a blue collar looser.
So you say I should never have become a father? I agree. But whats done is done.. Right? I love him regardless.
After researching WC's it sounds like "I" need the reality check for even thinking about this. So where do I go to get MY ass kicked, humiliated, abused and reminded how big of a dirtbag I am? Somewhere where my son could even watch?
Would he then forgive me for the abusive things I have said and done? Maybe.. Would I?
Is there a WC that both of us could attend and benefit from? Because after reading here. I would never send him anywhere alone. Some where that teaches character building, family values and Self esteem. And in a beautiful remote area?
Or should I just take him and go alone?
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Do you have anything in common with the boy? A like of a mutual sport or something? Perhaps you could follow that together or play. Even if it is just a casual kick of the footy in the park. Make it a regular standing activity.
You said you work in a blue collar industry. Are you good mechanically? If it is the boy's thing then mabey you could fix up and work on an old bomb of a car together.
Or you could see whether he has an interest in some sort of trade and perhaps he could get a part time job in a related industry. If he has a stubborn independent streak this may help him to feel like more of a man. Getting a pay packet every week is a real motivator for some kids.
Or you could look at some kind of outward bound type programme. they have an option to go on that as a family in the US Below is a link you can look at.
Try not to be so hard on yourself. A total loser would not even be involved in the kids life or would take the easy option of sending him off to a wlderness hell hole without really looking into it to "save his life". It sounds like in spite of your unruly youth you grew up to be ok. Perhaps you could do with more confidence. After all you are a role model for the kid. He does not need to hear that his nearest male influence has such a low opinion of himself. Try and dwell on what you are doing right as a dad
http://outwardboundwilderness.org/pages ... num=KBF721 (http://outwardboundwilderness.org/pageserver.cgi?tpl=course_info.tpl&name=adv_course_view&idx=4091&coursenum=KBF721)
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Great suggestions OG.
If you're going to consider OB or any other wilderness experience, even if you attend with him, atleast read this thread so you have a heads up on potential dangers. Don't let your common sense be overridden by program policy.
Outward Bound
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ck&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=16526&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=track&start=0)
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Thanks People.
I'm in Iowa. But I want to look for a warmer climate and stunning scenery for winter break maybe.
I work in "the dungeon." Its a state job. Loud ,and full of chemicals and back stabbers. No windows and a shiester boss. I could go on and on. But again. I blame myself for not pursuing a professional career when I was young. I was to busy getting stoned. I'm stuck there. I have bills to pay but it does have good benefits. Health and retirement. I am good with my hands and math. I like to work on my house and hobbies. Remote control boats, gliders,choppers etc. My son thinks it boring. Unless we strap a gun on it.
I bought a house in a nice part of town because of the school district. But I had to buy a fixer-upper to afford it. My house is my second job. Another thing I blame myself for. I should have bought a condo and signed my life away so I could have spent more time with my family. But I didn't and still have allot of work to do. But I owe nothing. My son thinks its boring to help dad and would rather spend hours playing his Xbox. Maybe if I offer to pay him? But I always thought that I shouldn't pay for chores.
Things in common. We both like to play the drums. He is sounding good. I played in many bands. That was my goal when I was young. I spent allot of time playing and it was fun. But I never "became a rock star" like I wanted. Another thing I blame myself for. If I would have spent that time pursuing a professional career..
So it feels like I have dug myself into a hole. Or painted myself into a corner.
I will look into the outward bound programs.
Thanks again.
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I'm not even sure what, if anything, is really wrong with him in the first place.
You can do a fair bit of kicking yourself for considering WCs, but you weren't crazy enough to go through with it so don't kick yourself too hard.
Going out into the wilderness for a few weeks with him might end up being worthwhile. Hell, it might even be an adventure. But it's not going to bring you closer together and it's not going to fix anything. Why would it? What are these mystical healing properties that this sort of thing is supposed to achieve?
Odds are, you take him out into the wilderness and you're just going to remind him why he'd rather not be with you. You take him out to the middle of boring-ass nowhere for a few weeks and then take him home to his Xbox and his friends and yeah, he's probably going to regret ever going with you. I don't know him, so I'm going to make a generalized guess at what most kids are likely to say: "Wow, that was a waste of time. Dad's getting weird. I better stay away from him."
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I had a great experience with my oldest daughter when she was 'I hate everything about you' years. We went down to the Keys for 2 weeks. If you make the trip something he's interested in, it can bring you closer together. She loved the water but was scared to death of sharks. We went out on the reefs and snorkeled, she saw sharks and conquered her fear and thought that was really cool. She had a great story to tell her friends. We bummed around Key West for a couple of days and I just kind of let her decide where we went and what we did. We learned a lot of things we hadn't known about each other and she found out that Mom wasn't such a clueless, boring bitch afterall. It didn't solve everything, or anything for that matter, but it made things a little easier to deal with. She saw that I wasn't just out to control her and make her life miserable. It's easy to get caught up in the day to day stuff and we'd get short with each other which would lead to knock down, drag out fights. They seemed to happen less often and with less intensity after that. It was a start at building an adult relationship with her that was based on mutual respect for each other and our differences. She saw that I respected the fact that she was becoming an adult. She still scared the crap out of me after that, but like I said...it was a little easier to talk to her and deal with situations that came up. It was a start.
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The big thing is what you have lined up afterwards. DEBS! Scream at DJ for some FFT links will you? I am hoping he has some up to date information that might have something more regional for Badad.That there feller knows a thing or two.
What state are you from anyway Badad?
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... nal#202609 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=202609&highlight=functional#202609)
And the thread on FFT that you initiated gookie
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 911#199911 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=199911#199911)
DJ: If your kid cannot be treated in the community, then it is appropriate to place them in a mental hospital.
My point is that if your kid requires out of home placement, then they are, by definition, out of the scope of treatment for WT, period.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... nal#182807 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=182807&highlight=functional#182807)
And on the ills of coercion in captivity
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... rick#16936 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=16936&highlight=derrick#16936)
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I have more issues than he does. Im talking to a shrink.
He was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD when he was in 3rd grade. The latest sign of trouble was last year in 8th grade. We only asked him if things in school were going OK. I was so busy with my second job (the house) I didnt take the time to follow up and make sure things were as good as he claimed. My wife also works. We, my wife and I, were still smoking pot back then. He ended up failing 5 classes. He went to summer school only to fail them again. The school didnt want him back until he made up the classes elsewhere. My wifes sister (Pat) & husband offered to take him up to minneapolis to a charter school. He passed all the classes but had many disciplinary problems. Throwing things in class. Swearing. Stealing. Trying to be cool. I still dont know all the details. But I will when he returns this weekend. Pat couldnt control him and has given up. It was a situation she could not handle.
Pat spent at least 6 hours a day between school and home working with him. And the charter school had small 15 student classes. The public school he will attend here has around 30 students per class. I know he will be to shy or embarrassed to ask questions. And is already behind because the trimester started 2 weeks ago.
I hope to hire I younger Tudor he can get along with.
Im just so worried about him because he has no goals. When I was his age I was into modeling, BMX (I was expert) and practiced drums for hours a day.
How do I motivate him? And help him realize that its so important to use his time wisely? Because He wont have the time when hes my age.
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You sound really caring and hard working. the only thing i would add is that given the cost of a Wilderness programme is that i would put the money you were going to spend on it, if it is something you already have, aside for his higher education.
This way even if he spends a few years completely fucking up but eventually comes out of it, he will still something set aside to help him go to college or learn a trade.
You mentioned that you thought about paying your son but feel he should help anyway. Do you give him pocket money or pay for stuff he wants above basic needs like food, clothes and school stuff? like x box games and cds anyway? if so you could just have him earn the EQ in cash by working on the house with you. He is still learning responsibility and hard work this way.
Good luck.
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The biggest thing that everyone tends to miss is you can not FORCE IT.
You can not FORCE a bond, or FORCE therapy!
Also, some 'camp' or 'program' will not 'fix' a person like a shop or a mechanic can fix a machine. A person is a person is a person, there is no black magic, voodoo, 'fixit' or whatnot that will just make him "work" like some person or entity (society?) thinks he should.
Well, that and "wilderness" has no magical therapeutic value. Its mostly used because its an extreme environment for city/suburbanite kids, offers great ways to push them emotionally and isolate them, make them suffer, and let you get away with doing things where they have zero contact with the outside world, and reduce the chances of running away.
The "wilderness effect" spoken of on ST is no more than a "program effect".
I am glad that you're willing to admit that its not all his fault, that parents share responsibilty for their children - but you can't turn to an industry full of quackery, mind-FUCK nonsense and greedy charlatans selling snakeoil to get help. You need to work on his terms, because its his mind and feelings and his issues, not force him using circumstance or a harsh, isolated environment where he has to rely on you or a group of 'counselors' with gay injun-ripoff names to survive.
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Thanks so much. I agree with most that has been said here. Im glad I didnt take the advice to "stay away from here" from the Woodbury forums.
We dont make allot of money. The cost of one years tuition at any of the so called "good" RTC's is more than we make in a year. Yet I was willing to sign my life away to help my son.
This way even if he spends a few years completely fucking up but eventually comes out of it, he will still something set aside to help him go to college or learn a trade.
Good luck.
Oz girl.. Your statement worries me. Because when I was 17 I sold drugs. A informant finally got me busted and I joined the coast guard (with visions of finding bales of dope on the beach) to avoid prosecution. So instead of going to college I ended up in boot camp. I got my ass kicked in boot camp as I was demoted from one company to another for disciplinary issues. I could have quit. But I knew what awaited if I returned home. I didnt "come out of it". And after 4 years in the coast guard I had little to show for it. The CG runs off the DOT which at that time was almost bankrupt and the school I was promised closed.
This was a big stumbling block I dont wish my son to experience. But he knows and has seen first hand what drugs and alcohol can do to a person.
The FFT sounds good. How do I go about setting this up?
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here are some links you may wish to try as a starting point
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/sfp/ (http://www.extension.iastate.edu/sfp/)
http://www.fftinc.com/contact.php (http://www.fftinc.com/contact.php)
http://www.dsgonline.com/mpg2.5/search.htm (http://www.dsgonline.com/mpg2.5/search.htm)
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FFT isn't available unless my son is in the juvenile system.
Things have slowly reverted back to what they used to be and worse since he got back. He makes his mom cry on a daily basis. And just got done tearing his room apart. Then he said he was leaving forever. But returned 1/2 hr later to eat and continue his rein.
Another 4 years of this?
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Got back from where, Badad?
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He was up in minneapolis with my wifes sister for one trimester at a charter school. She (pat) finally gave up.
I started looking for schools again. But Im glad I came back here to remind me what most of them are like.
But my wife and I are on the edge of sanity/divorce.
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Get him on this forum and let him know what kind of concentrated evil wants to eat his soul.
(Hey, you've tried everything else, right?)
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I just found this thread. Hope you're still lurking.
Here's an angle I don't think anybody's beat me to. How about taking a closer look at why you and your son, like so many of us, have such a hard time finding anything to respect in most of the people who are drawn to positions of authority? There are very good reasons. But there are better and worse ways to articulate them and to respond to them.
Check out these authors for some ideas: John Taylor Gatto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto).
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That's a approach or angle Id never heard of. But it does make sense. School did seem like a prison or cult to me. But my son "says" he likes it and is getting good grades.
At this point of my life I feel I need to obey "the man". Iv been beat by him to many times and have learned. But my son is completely opposite. Small things like cleaning his room or shoveling snow only happen after a long drag down fight. My wife starts to cry after demanding and being told no. I step in calmly and then she screams at me. Im walking on egg shells. He finally does the chore 1/2 way after he sees us fight about how to deal with him. He says he wants to spend time with me. But I dont enjoy anything anymore. The hobbies I loved are boring now. And I find it hard to reward him for his behavior.
This unschool thing wouldnt work with him.
"It requires tremendous dedication and discipline to assume the responsibility that is normally entrusted to schools. If they decide to go this route, teens have to look for their own teachers and seek out classes if they can't learn something on their own. They have to think hard about what interests them and research the skills they need to accomplish it, so that they can make sure to take the necessary steps. "
My son and myself are more focused on instant gratification. Classic ADHD. Not long term future goals. What many would call lazy. Then when it is to late I feel beat. Its to late. I find myself dreaming about life before my son was born. I also wonder if I would still be a pothead alky. Maybe he saved me. But now it feels like he is destroying the family. My wife and I are very confused and exhausted. We Havent taken a vacation for years. If we went alone. We would never hear the end of it.
I wish I could find FFT. And Im leaning more towards meds at this point.
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If he's getting good grades but doesn't want to talk to you or your wife, the best thing would probably be for both of you to stay the hell out of his way for a while.
You'd be surprised how quickly that can fix troubled relationships.
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Something I learned from someone I respect a lot... condensed into a phrase.
"The best way to teach moderation to a child is to not force it upon them."
Pretty simple, eh? I basically taught myself habits behind moderation of alcohol, driving, cleaning things, food choices, etc becuase I completely disregarded what was told to me and decided on my own :rofl: but the principle remains the same.
Remove the urge to rebel and counter you and suddenly things that are necessary become apparent and typically done by a intelligent person.
At any rate, hiking in the woods and disclosure won't fix anything, the only thing a program "Does" is break people, make them disclose everything, and do what they are told under threat.
Also, uh, when that threat is removed, they won't do what you say anymore, then grow up and learn how to decide what to do on their own... soo... see where I'm going?
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Wanting to clean and knowing why you should is better and ultimately more effective than coercing it.
I think you know why.
If its arbitrary, its bullshit... if its meaningful (like picking up shit that is dangerous, frail, or valuable, or removing old clothes and food for sanitation) then they'll learn it and practice it.
MY room is messy and I'd hit you in the face with a dowel rod if you touched my shit, but it doesn't stink!
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This cold weather has something to do with our cabin fever.
Its not that he doesnt want to spend time with us. We play family games. Hang out and watch TV together. Hes fun to be around. But when asked to do anything. He turns into a rude, hurtful person yelling at us. Punching holes in walls and throwing things. Ripping picture frames off the walls etc.
I guess I need to let it go. But I just cant get over the feeling that my wife and I are slaves for our kids. My wife has back problems and I have wrist Tendonitis and ligement damage and we are out shoveling snow. It just pisses me off big time! And at those moments I want to kick his ass up and down the block.
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Advice number one:
Print out these two articles and hang them where he can not avoid reading them. Write the phonenumber to wwasp and a teen escort firm on them with a pen:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine ... 72,00.html (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,987172,00.html)
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July ... laug04.msp (http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp)
When he ask about them give him an answer, which he might consider as a try to explain away. Refuse to discuss the matter further but turn the dialogue into chores and schoolwork instead.
Advice number two: (If the first one does not work)
a) Rent a cabin for a weekend.
b) Write a impact letter.
c) Hire an escort company to take him for a detour before he ends up at the cabin where you have arrived before him. See too that your car is not at the cabin, so he has to stay there.
d) Use the weekend to talk the impact letter over with him
Advice number three: (If the first two advices dont work)
Wait until he is 18 and let him know that he is an adult. Tell him straight: "Now it is my way or the highway"
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This cold weather has something to do with our cabin fever.
Its not that he doesnt want to spend time with us. We play family games. Hang out and watch TV together. Hes fun to be around. But when asked to do anything. He turns into a rude, hurtful person yelling at us. Punching holes in walls and throwing things. Ripping picture frames off the walls etc.
Now, if you can't gain cooperation, how will a program? What methods will they employ to do so?
He's exhibiting extremely anti-social behavior. It's a bad habit that you've allowed him to develop. He doesn't need to be drugged for a bad habit. What are the consequences for breaking things and punching holes in the walls?
In my house, he would be responsible for replacing the things he breaks. It will require some creativity and a little assistance on your part, but he needs to be earning money that he can 'loose' when this happens. Assigning an arbitrary punishment (grounding) is indirect and teaches nothing specific to the situtation.
Same with the holes in the walls. You take him to the hardware store, he purchases the necessary items to repair the holes, and with your assistance, he repairs them.
I'd first try the 'giving perspective' approach. Make a list of all the things that have to be done in order for the house to run well. Check off everything you do that he can't, including, working in order to pay the bills. Grocery shopping, cooking, trash, laundry, cleaning, mowing, shoveling snow, etc. All household members make unpaid contributions, so ask him to select the one's he'll be responsible for, in addition to cleaning his own room.
Not negotiable, as it wouldn't be with a roommate. Would you allow a roommate to skate by with no contribution? I doubt it. If he doesn't select, then you select for him. And then you must be prepared to follow through.
Anytime we do for someone else what they can do themselves, we create an invalid- so-called 'entitlement' issues. Don't do this to you son.
I guess I need to let it go. But I just cant get over the feeling that my wife and I are slaves for our kids. My wife has back problems and I have wrist Tendonitis and ligement damage and we are out shoveling snow. It just pisses me off big time! And at those moments I want to kick his ass up and down the block.
You're not a victim to your child. You may lack a backbone and persistence, but you can change that, if cooperation and assistance is what you're seeking.
Kicking his ass up and down the block, as I'm sure you're aware, will only incite more rebellion and 'teaches' nothing, except violence, something he obviously doesn't need more of.
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Advice number two: (If the first one does not work)
a) Rent a cabin for a weekend.
b) Write a impact letter.
c) Hire an escort company to take him for a detour before he ends up at the cabin where you have arrived before him. See too that your car is not at the cabin, so he has to stay there.
d) Use the weekend to talk the impact letter over with him
Escort companies should be illegal. Who;s idea is this, or is this just some internet theory being thrown around? :-?
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One more dumbass comment like that out of you, Covergaard, and I'll categorically prove to this forum what you write in your spare time, and that it is in fact you writing it.
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I agree with most of what Deborah wrote. Except for the bedroom> id just let him live in filth.
one think i note is that you dont sound very confident. Do you think that the boy picks up on this and just does what he wants because he knows you doubt yourself and your parenting skills? If this is the case it probably contributes to things.
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:rofl:
You SURE that wasn't sarcasm on his part there milk?
OH LORD THE DRAMA :em:
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I can see why you would feel that. Yet do you think it would be a long term solution?
No I dont. Like I said. I "want" to kick his ass. Not that I was actually going to. But there are moments when I need to just walk away or I might "try" to get physical. Im now wearing hand me downs from him. Hes as big or bigger than me and in better shape. It would be a close match. But it would be devastating to our relationship.
Now, if you can't gain cooperation, how will a program? What methods will they employ to do so?
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I have given up with most programs. But I just talked with him. In fact hes walking in and out as I write and says he hates me and wants to go to a program. I told him some kids get abused and commit suicide at these programs. He needs to get away from here though. Scattergood here in iowa my be a option.
Then I reminded him that I love him and we both agreed we love and hate each other.
Yes. The Drama.
I need to let the little things slide for now and hope he stays out of trouble. And spend more time with him. And its not easy hiding who I am Oz girl..
We had some quality time when Mom left for a while.
Thanks all.
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I have given up with most programs. But I just talked with him. In fact hes walking in and out as I write and says he hates me and wants to go to a program.
You do realize he's being an emotional teenager and you need to play the role of a intellectual adult, right? :wink:
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Send him to me for half the price that the program you were considering. No, seriously.
What? You don't trust me?
Then why the hell would you trust them?
Listen, this kind of shit is common between teenagers and their parents. Most parents aren't stupid enough to consider sending their kids away for it. It doesn't work and it makes the problem worse.
Get him on this forum and let him talk to me for a while. I'll tell him how to set you straight.
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I need to let the little things slide for now and hope he stays out of trouble. And spend more time with him. And its not easy hiding who I am Oz girl..
We had some quality time when Mom left for a while.
Thanks all.
Who you are is Who you are but you need to stop being so down on yourself. Otherwise the boy will pick up on it!! Everybody has good and bad points. You hold down a job. This kids mother was willing to produce the boy with you so you are obviously not completely devoid of charm! You love your son. So it may be an idea to work on your level of self esteem. i am not naive enough to suggest that this will make things perfect but it must be hard for the boy to respect a man who thinks so little of himself.
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Go build and race a sportscar and take turns.
I sure as fuck wish I could do that with my dad, but then again, I don't have one. Just an enemy.
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alcohol should be used to fuel the race car.
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You do realize he's being an emotional teenager and I want you to play the role of a intellectual adult, right? :wink:
Yes I hear you.
But I suffer from depression. Especially during these cold months. Talking with you people helps. Allot
I worry about money allot. My wife just started working and our retirement plan didn't exist until just recently. Our financial future looks bleak for us now that Im sober and thinking about the things Iv ignored for most of my life. So Im on this saving money kick now. I cant have fun doing special things with my family cuz " It costs to much" So then I feel guilty for not...
building and racing a sportscar.
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Even though I prolly could afford it.
But Im still not done with my fixer-upper. So Im stuck in this material world when I should be more concerned with my family.
Again.. If we made good money I could afford to pay someone to do my roof, windows, siding,furnace A/C and interior. But since I screwed up and ended up a blue collar idiot. Thats how I feel.
My son was the last in the very long line of people who have beat on me.
But I will try to work on my self esteem Oz Girl.
Oh.. My wife would kick my ass if I had a beer. Because I have a hard time drinking only one.
Milk.. Funny thing is. I do trust you. And most of you as well.
Im trying to talk my son into posting here and talking. What forum should he start in where you kind people would talk to him?
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But Im still not done with my fixer-upper. So Im stuck in this material world when I should be more concerned with my family.
Again.. If we made good money I could afford to pay someone to do my roof, windows, siding,furnace A/C and interior. But since I screwed up and ended up a blue collar idiot. Thats how I feel.
I always find the term blue collar slob or blue collar idiot somewhat oxymoronic. When my loo breaks and water sprays everywhere i dont know what to do. So i call a plummer. he has the knowldge and expertise to fix the problem and the level of work ethic that makes him willing to stick his hand into a lavatory while I jump around screaming like a girl. This does not seem to me like a man who is either idiotic or lazy :D
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I'm a genius without a college education.
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First of all even though the house is taking a lot of work at least you own it free and clear and that's saying a lot in this day and age where people are in hock up to their eyeballs; where one thing goes wrong and the whole house of cards falls down. That was a smart thing to do because at least you will always have a place to live.
You have to stop putting yourself down. Not just because your son picks up on it and can manipulate you with it but because when you put yourself down you are putting him down. Believe it or not he does look up to you even though he would never admit it. When you put yourself down as a parent you are telling him that the end product, that is, your son, is defective. If you are failure as a parent then he is a failure as a son. STOP IT! Try finding something about him you really like and respect. Find something about yourself you like and respect then try to convey how glad you are to be his father and emphasise whatever you can that makes you feel like a success as a parent. Don't be phony cuz he'll smell it a mile away and it won't work. Be genuine. Stop beating yourself up and be the father you want to be; don't try to make him be the son you want him to be. Let him know you are on his side, right or wrong (that doesn't mean you won't condone wrong, just that you will still be on his side). Good luck.
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What forum should he start in where you kind people would talk to him?
The main forum is usually the best place to start. Fornits is such a brutally nasty place that it sounds like he'd fit in immediately.
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But I suffer from depression. Especially during these cold months. Talking with you people helps. Allot
Get yourself some cod liver oil. Yeh, sounds nasty, but the one I take is emulsified and flavored with peppermint. It will work in a matter of days. May not need it when you're getting adequate exposure to sun, but then you could switch to regular fish oil or something with Omega 3s. Might also help with the past results of abuse of alcohol.
Get that son onboard to help with some of those repairs. It could be a good way to vent some frustration, and if you're a respectful in your leadership with him, he could learn some valuable skills.
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Iv been on fish oil for many years. I was taking 4000 mg Omega mood (high epa)by country life but ran out and am taking now foods omega 3 now. I need to order more soon and its the best time to ship it now in cold weather. I ask my family take it also but they dont always unless I remind them. Grass feed beef from my dads farm. Organic eggs from my buddies farm. Real whole grain bread and pasta. But the fruits and veggies could be more. I ride my bike rain or snow to work so I dont drive or do the shopping and its tough getting the good foods.
I dont mind working on toilets. I like to, no, love to work with my hands. Keeps me in shape. But it doesn't pay well. Cutting and splitting my firewood in the fall is one of my most favorite things to do with my dad. But my kids hate it. They would rather play video games all day. I cut , split and stack a seasons worth of fire wood and its like pulling teeth to get them to bring it inside as we burn it.
I will remember what most of you said and work harder on my self esteem. I wish my family would say what you people have said.
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Tell them they get to attack things with sharp objects.
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Wanting to clean and knowing why you should is better and ultimately more effective than coercing it.
I think you know why.
If its arbitrary, its bullshit... if its meaningful (like picking up shit that is dangerous, frail, or valuable, or removing old clothes and food for sanitation) then they'll learn it and practice it.
MY room is messy and I'd hit you in the face with a dowel rod if you touched my shit, but it doesn't stink!
I agree....pick your battles. If he's as out of control as you make him sound and what, 14 or so years old, I would focus on the other things. You may want to try getting him to talk about what he is so angry about. Why does he get mad? What does he want out of you and your wife? Start a dialogue and dont focus on the small things like cleaning his room. It's probably too late for that.