Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 16, 2005, 01:02:00 PM
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Cedu totally ruined john lennon music for me. I used to listen to him all the time. Now if i hear one of his songs it just brings back bad memories...does any one feel the same?
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I am with you. CEDU trashed alot of music.
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I think for TRUE artists, or people who truly love music, one place can't ruin it. You can, by always associating the school with these songs. Truth is, a lot of us heard these songs WAY before we got sent to the school. One common ground that I think links a lot of people on here is the fact that most can't get over CEDU and move on with their lives. It's almost as if going to CEDU is an excuse for people to not care about themselves, because they were sent away. Whatever the reason, it gives people an open door out of being responsible for their own lives, and they can always blame their mistakes after CEDU on CEDU.
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I went to Cedu 7 years ago. Back then they played nothing but Enya. Everytime I hear her I think back to the days I was trapped there! I hate it.
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On 2005-05-16 15:12:00, If u want to know..then ask wrote:
"I think for TRUE artists, or people who truly love music, one place can't ruin it. You can, by always associating the school with these songs. Truth is, a lot of us heard these songs WAY before we got sent to the school. One common ground that I think links a lot of people on here is the fact that most can't get over CEDU and move on with their lives. It's almost as if going to CEDU is an excuse for people to not care about themselves, because they were sent away. Whatever the reason, it gives people an open door out of being responsible for their own lives, and they can always blame their mistakes after CEDU on CEDU. "
This sounds a lot like the blame-the-victim abuse mentality I saw at CEDU. Being able to talk about their experiences here is for a lot of people the closest thing they will get to psychotherapy for what was done to them in the formative, vulnerable periods of their relatively early years in life. I think the problem here is not that such people do not care about themselves, but that not enough people care about them!
HAH!
Stuff that in your pipe and shove it up your ass!
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I disagree. I know a lot of people who dabble on this site have moved on in terms of having productive lives and loving relationships, and don't use CEDU as a excuse mechanism. Having said that,CEDU was a psychologically damaging place that exacted a huge impact for the reasons stated by Oppositional. We were sent there at a critical stage of our development. For some of us, once we left, we never spoke of it because we knew no "civilian" would understand this experience. So for us, we never had an opportunity to really digest this freak show and this forum provides that outlet.
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No one is downing this forum or what people have gone through. Truth is, that if that is how you feel Oppositional, then yes, maybe I do need to shove something in my pipe, but I sure as hell will not shove it up my ass. It sounds like you never got the chance to grow up or something. I was simply giving my opinion. That is what this forum is about right?! People being able to voice how they feel. Well, that is what I am doing on here. I have a TON of friends from that place that do not see things as bad in their lives because they went to a school. I guess when you talk about abuse, I have to wonder WHAT abuse means to you. I come from a past of abuse, and I don't consider being at a emotional growth boarding school as abuse. Yes, some of the things they did was terrible, but honestly at the end of the day when you got to sit with your friends and listen to some mellow music, that was my favorite part! But hey, to each their own right? But maybe Oppositional, if you are going to be righteous with someone and use the word CARE while you are doing it, maybe you should take your own advice and come off, and little more....CARING!! Hee hee!
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On 2005-05-18 08:03:00, shanlea wrote:
"I disagree. I know a lot of people who dabble on this site have moved on in terms of having productive lives and loving relationships, and don't use CEDU as a excuse mechanism. Having said that,CEDU was a psychologically damaging place that exacted a huge impact for the reasons stated by Oppositional. We were sent there at a critical stage of our development. For some of us, once we left, we never spoke of it because we knew no "civilian" would understand this experience. So for us, we never had an opportunity to really digest this freak show and this forum provides that outlet. "
That is exactly how i feel...i couldnt have put it better myself
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Smushing was the best part of the day for you? I cant beleive that. Sugar cereal by far was the best thing going for that school. Mmmm captain crunch.
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Well Steenblock, no one said SMUSHING! I said I enjoyed the mellow music and SITTING with friends! Smushing was where you laid on people...
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CEDU didn't ruin the artists...Bob Dylan is still the shit. But if a Bob Dylan propheet song comes on, I have to turn it off. Even if it's a song I loved before. Oh and smooshing? Smooshing was chill and all, but what the fuck was up with handing out workies to kids who refused to do it.
CEDU might've been a shitty place to be from ages 15 to 18, but if you've got problems these days, those are your problems...can't blame them on CEDU. There are places much worse that you could've spent those 3 years, and I'm not just limiting that statement to things like juvy or lockdown. Think about it.
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Maybe, I was saying it wrong, but that is all I was saying. LOL...I think people are taking what already happened and using that to live their life. Your past really doesn't make you who you are...your future does.. :grin:
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My bad, that second to last post was mine...forgot to log in.
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what didn't cedu ruin?
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CEDU didn't ruin anyone who wasn't on the highway to ruin in the first place, if you're still blaming your high school for your life a decade after leaving who knows who can help you.
Did I go there: No. But my girlfriend and a bunch of her friends went to RMA and NWA and I never heard any of the nonsense "Oh it's like a concentration camp" "Torture victim" " All my friends from there died because of the school".
B as in B; S as in S.
"Opposition Defiance" (isn't that precious?, is it true you're in the military down south or something? Does your CO know about your threats and other objectionable activities at this forum? Cause I hear that people know who you are, from your posts and from real life
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I disagree with people that bitch about CEDU ruining their lives...but you're a moron too.
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Ok, where did it all come from?!
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The hostility comes from program converts angy about losing their jobs, who've chosen to take their aggressions out on those of us who see them as they really are...LOSERS!
I guess the converts can't come to grips with the reality that cedu hurt people, many more were hurt than were helped. And those who do claim to be saved by cedu weren't really saved, they were merely conditioned to believe they were.
No Cedu in itself doesn't ruin lives, but it does it make life a lot harder for some. Cedu adds a lot of unecessary pain and trauma. We all deal with our pain differently. Some people heal quickly, others take a little longer. And yes many kids at cedu were unfairly railroaded at cedu by abusive staff. Lots of them were driven to extreme acts of desperation to escape the constant mindfucking. They ended up in worse places,that side-tracked their lives for years.
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NEXT!!!! :wstupid:
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who are YOU calling stupid, you brain dead bitch?!?! :wstupid: :wstupid: :wstupid:
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HA HA HA! :roll:
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Don't worry...half these little fuckers that got sent to cedu and say it ruined their lives were destined to have pathetic lives anyways. That's just how it is when you've got severe social problems I guess. They just like to have cedu as a scapegoat...but I'm sure in 20 years they'll realize it was them all along.
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Yea, I am really not worried about some kid who can't come up with anything better than "brain dead whore". I don't think he realizes how LONG women have been called whores. It doesn't bother me like it does most women. He's a little sens-a-tive though isn't he?! :razz:
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sorry freaks, but i never said cedu ruined my life, you did. i'm very happy with my life as it is, nothing ruined here. but for you idiots to call me stupid for suggesting that cedu negatively affected the lives of many,and in fact hurt these people, well that behavior in itself is stupid. no cedu didn't ruin my life, and i'll wager that t'm far more successful in my life than either one of you dead beats.
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So, since you are far more successful, what does "t'm" mean? Omigod, the highly successful guy who keeps thinking that someone or something other than a little smiley face holding a sign is calling him stupid, made a TYPO? NOOOOOO! Everybody, quick, duck! The world is falling! Please sweetie! Good for you, take your success and bathe in it. But unfortunately, I don't believe you. You see, when you have to convince someone how successful you are, you really aren't. But that's cute! By the way, are you really angry? Or just hurt?!
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Why are people "stupid" enough to call someone a deadbeat when they have no clue who they're calling a deadbeat? We could be deadbeats, we could be extremely successful...you have no clue. You're such an idiot that I'm really not going to bother defending either of us.
I am "willing to wager" that you don't have a pair though...most anonymous shit talkers don't. [ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-05-24 14:08 ]
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anon - driving mommy and daddys lexus doesnt make you successful
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"puma046": posting with a made-up name and a stupid cartoon face beside it doesn't make you not be a dumb-fuck---you smug bastard
ditto: "d-fucking-pervert-niceo7": hey---how do these made-up dumb-ass-cutesy names make you holier-than-anyone-drugfiend-anti-CEDU-ites not "anonymous"??
Like "pima046" is a "real"person??
And btw both you little fucknuts: I don't owe you a name or any other goddam thing for that matter---don't need---and don't want to know--or get along with you losers---
That's not my purpose here at all: only purpose is to confront cheap pervert bully boys like you----and to give parents another perspective as appropriate
Oh you don't like it??? Well--get used to it: your opinions of me matter zip---my wish to appease you is zero---and I'll post "anon" as fucking long as I like. Stupid fuck nuts
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this raving bitch what her real problem is.
my guess is that she's sexually frusterated because she's married to an impotent loser, who wouldn't know what to do with a REAL woman if he saw one. i'm glad you think i'm cute, but give it up, because i'm way too good for a dirty skank like you.
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Haha. Where's the anger coming from man? Time to relax...get laid or something buddy.
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Yea, ok. Once again, since you so much better than me, why are you degrading yourself by calling me names. Don't you realize that you actually make yourself look less intelligent because you can't seem to get past the 6 grade name calling?! That's ok Anon, I DO think you're cute, just like I think my little boy is cute during his worst fit! It's funny how when some (insecure) men feel most intimidated and less then themselves they turn to verbally or physically abusing women. Hmm, how many times did you hit your mother when she told you no?! Interesting, isn't it? Anon, (since you seem so close to that name) you say you on here to look for some perverts? That is kind of disgusting. And you want them to be perverted bully boys? That is even more disgusting. When was the last time YOU took a trip to Neverland Ranch. You really should testify. Ha! It's ok Anon, go ahead with the cheap name calling...have fun with it! Just don't get mad when others have fun with you! Have a nice day! :wave: :wave:
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been doing plenty of that artie. why are you so interested in my sex life anyway? let me guess, you think i'm cute too? where's that coming from "buddy"? because it sounds like you have a few issues to work out yourself.
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On 2005-05-25 08:44:00, If u want to know..then ask wrote:
"Yea, ok. Once again, since you so much better than me, why are you degrading yourself by calling me names. "
another example of how stupid you are. calling you names doesn't degrade me, it degrades you.
i don't know where all those neverland ranch fantasies came from, maybe you've been watching dniceo 7's home movies again.
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Cool! Wow, you are pretty interesting! Well, not really. Actually, you are pretty boring. I am bored with you, go away now! Hee hee! :lol:
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This kid's a pussy...he's been trying to talk shit to me for a long time, he knows my name, but never in a million years would he admit who he is. Just let him be...he's a little punk, not worth your time.
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That was me, forgot to sign in.
I still think it's Steve Arbour.
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(If you want to know...):
If this anon is who I think it is, I've traded more insults with him than anyone. This idiot is about as cedufied as one can get. I believe he suffers from some sort of "Robin Hood" complex. He's said before that he's defending the oppressed masses of cedu supporters from persecution by those of us "Bullies" who hate cedu.
Of course Cedu is now officially dead, so there really isn't any purpose in this Anon's continued attacks against us. I guess he's still in denial, or maybe he's letting go of all his suppressed rage or something.
Don't let it get to you.
By the way (Dniceo7): Who's Steve Arbour?
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-05-25 14:11 ]
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Yea, I guess he got into it a few times at CEDU and more than likely lost. He does mention the whole "perverted boy bullies" which makes me wonder about a FEW things! :wink:
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Pretty funny.
Get this: I don't give a raccoon's snot ball what any of you think or speculate or imagine about me: I'll be here when---and as long as---I like. With or without collective hysterics on this thread (though these kinds of response make it especially amusing).
Good to see Rod of Serbia join in---we were all betting he was institutionalized or jailed, maybe put out of his misery by his poor wife (or Bryan Butthole his other "wife").
Now you'll can get back to your weed, etc and pick up on ignoring the Anon
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"You'll can go back to your weed"? HA HA HA! God, you have issues! And if you didn't care, then why make the point to say so? Hmm, guess you do care! Jokes on you! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Haha pure comedy. Did he say "raccoon's snot ball"? Good shit...I hope he does stick around, it's good entertainment.
Steve Arbour; some little punk kid (much like 75% of the kids I had the pleasure of spending 2 years with) at BCA who was such an annoying little snot nosed fuck that he got picked on 24-7. This anon kid sounds a lot like him, and they both seem to have complexes with bullies (aka no one liked him, so it's nice to be able to talk shit online when no one's going to break his face).
[ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-05-25 20:13 ]
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you are still the bully you always were. Sad that you haven't grown up and out of it yet. Does your mom know what a troll you still are? Pretty immature of you to name someone and say such hateful things about them. You are probably wrong about whoever the anon is.
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On 2005-05-25 20:12:00, dniceo7 wrote:
"Haha pure comedy. Did he say "raccoon's snot ball"? Good shit...I hope he does stick around, it's good entertainment.
Steve Arbour; some little punk kid (much like 75% of the kids I had the pleasure of spending 2 years with) at BCA who was such an annoying little snot nosed fuck that he got picked on 24-7. This anon kid sounds a lot like him, and they both seem to have complexes with bullies (aka no one liked him, so it's nice to be able to talk shit online when no one's going to break his face).
[ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-05-25 20:13 ]"
I figured he was someone like this. Yeah, you do make a strong case dniceo 7. He let on a while ago that he attended BCA. I also know that he has 1 or more friends who troll this site with him.
dniceo7: Was there anyone at BCA who Steve Arbour was close to? Do you remember where he was from?
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Obviously, this guy just needs some good puss! It is just unfortunate that he will probably never get it acting that way! Since he speaks upon "real" women, I am sure that he knows that they expect a little more than the pipe itself. If he opens his mouth and is as annoying as he is when he types, that could be a major downfall!
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Ain't that the truth. I've often thought that sexual frustration was a big factor behind this particular troll's rage and negativity. In the past I assumed he was a closet homosexual, and that sexual competition was the reason behind his hostility towards women. But I could be mistaken. It may be that he's actually attracted to women, but hates them also, because none have ever returned his affections. It could be an even bigger issue than that. I've often referred to this fool as the "Dickless Wonder" in the past, in reference to the overwhelming cowardice he's exhibited in his posting here and on other websites. Could it be that there's more to it than that? Maybe he really is ill equiped, you know erectile dysfunction,
impotency, and all the rest of it. His hatred for women could stem from knowing that even if one was interested, it would be physically impossible for him to ever satisfy her needs. It makes sense when you think about it. Y'know, I'm beginning to feel sorry for the guy.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-05-26 13:56 ]
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SNAP!
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Snap?! Ok? Are you alright over there? Just want to make sure that the "snap" wasn't your neck or anything like that! Anyway, back to our little anon stalker, I do think that it makes sense what you said...Poor Guy :cry:
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this anon is a loser, true enough, with the name-calling, etc. My point is that you stoop even lower than him when you name someone publicly for something they had no participation in. If you have a beef with a particular individual, call him up and take care of business. If you are wrong, that's called being an asshole bully.
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Um, so maybe instead of being anonymous not only by name but by who you are talking to. Cuz I know I haven't named anyone...so take it up one on one and stop pussy footing around! Thank you and have a nice day! :grin:
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"If you are wrong, that's called being an asshole bully."
I don't quite understand this sentence. If you are wrong that means you are an asshole bully? Wow! I must be one major one then, because I am wrong at least once a day![ This Message was edited by: If u want to know..then ask on 2005-05-26 15:03 ]
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I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Denicio. Naming people who may be innocent is bullying behavior.
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Well, speaking deliberately does stop confusion! And, are you offened or just jumping on a bandwagon here! It happens everyday on here, that is why I am asking!
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no, not offended. Just trying to be fair, that's all. Trolls will be trolls, and this anon is a dirtbag. But don't assume who he/she is and name names. That's not right.
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Ok, I hear ya! Just wanted to see where your heads' at! Anyway :exclaim: I think Anon just needs to go do something with his life, (besides getting laid, but that is Numero Uno)!
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Kid, I'll name all the names I want. If I knew your name, I'd name it too. Unfortunately you're too afraid to man up, so we'll leave it at that. And besides, she's right...you should forget about me, your number one concern should be huntin' down a little tail for yourself.
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you are an idiot, I am not a kid. I'm actually a parent. And I know your mom.
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You're a parent? That makes you 10 times as lame as I already thought you were. I thought I told my mom to stop talking to weirdos like you...[ This Message was edited by: dniceo7 on 2005-05-27 11:41 ]
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Wow! For a parent to call someone else's child an idiot, you must be a shitty parent. I have a two year old, and no matter what I think of another's child, I do NOT call them names for respect for my own child! It sounds like you need to go to parenting counseling or something and make yourself a better parent!
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False and/or silly assumption in the previous post, "If-u-want": you say (I guess with a straight face): "For a parent to call someone else's child an idiot, you must be a shitty parent".
What an absolutely clueless thing to say, do you self-censor at all? EVERYBODY is some one else's child--- now, maybe you're some kind of politically correct freak who faints if snybody says an unkind word, if so I don't see how you survive in this cess pool called Fornits.
So I think you're just a stupid person who wanted to be one-up on the parent and you said the first think that popped into your poor little head
Who the hell cares if you "have a two year old"? Nobody is calling a two year old an idiot.
There are a whole bunch of people who post here who have absolutely earned the title "idiot" and a whole lot more. Good for that parent and others who point it out, it may even help some of you to be told how you come across
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Well seeing as how you ARE that "parent", I think we can all keep on laughing at you. What a moron.
It wouldn't be the first time you've gotten caught on these boards pretending to be multiple people. You really gotta start investing your time in better activities. Like getting laid. Or anything.
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Sonny boy---how are YOU managing to get laid--not enough maybe?---since getting some is obviously so urgent to you that you suggest it for just about everyone who posts here and disagrees with you
And you're here a helluva lot yourself for someone with an active (pretend?)social life---but maybe you and your honey are so-o-o high all the time that sex ain't a priority.
BTW I'm not the "parent" (am a parent though), I just happened to agree with him/her.
The post you comment on in your latest rant is MINE
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You can't be serious. Someone get this dumbass some help.
You must've gotten knocked up/knocked someone up pretty damn fast, considering you knew me as such a "bully" at BCA. I left, what, less than 3 years ago?
Oh and there's only one person I talk shit to on here....you.
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I checked this site earlier on yesterday, laughed at dineco7 (as usual), penned a response, and went on with my day and evening which was btw quite enjoyable.
Imagine my surprise (not really) to find the poor kid posting back to me at a point in the day that you'd hope a young guy would have SOMETHING else to do with his time...
Yep, my analysis of dniceo7's (or should I say dniceo"0")social life, or lack thereof, still stands
Still not "the parent" in case you're wondering , little d.
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You're an idiot, you really are. Is that really all you could come up with? That and calling me a "butthead"? And I'm still confused...are you a parent with nothing better to do than talk shit to kids, or were you one of the losers I "bullied" at BCA? This was entertaining at first, but your inability to think of anything intelligent to say just blew that one away.
Oh and as for your "analysis", did you forget that some of us college kids get jobs over the summer? Often ones where we use computers?
Good to hear your little evening playing with yourself went so nicely. If you'd like to continue this, we can settle it the old fashioned way, but don't bother responding, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
And CEDU did ruin good music.
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Sounds like dniceo7 can dish it out but not take it so good, a typical fornit's bully-boy-wannabe with the usual feet of clay (and a full diaper a whole lot of the time)
Listen "little d", YOU'RE the one who started this-- mouthing off at me for no reason--acting like the little prick you are-trying to be a bad ass flamer---telling people they needed to get laid if they didn't salute your party line about your god given right to name innocent people here at your infantile often incorrect whim
You say you're "not interested" in what I have to say??? Isn't that a fucking shame, maybe you should have thought of that when you took off after people for no reason but that you're a brat with an attitude
Thanks for the advice but I"ll respond if I want to--how about that? And you can read my responses or ignore them, that's your choice
And if you continue to act like a spoiled immature selfish prick I'll continue to point it out whenever I like
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hey, from "the parent"... you are admittedly a bully then, and you are still a pitiful bully now. Very very sad. Grow up please. Talking trash to parents speaks volumes about you.
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"gotten caught" by denicio, gotta love it.
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Incognito of course. I mean they don't make a lot of sense so that's a clue right there that they may be from him.
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On 2005-05-27 19:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"False and/or silly assumption in the previous post, "If-u-want": you say (I guess with a straight face): "For a parent to call someone else's child an idiot, you must be a shitty parent".
What an absolutely clueless thing to say, do you self-censor at all? EVERYBODY is some one else's child--- now, maybe you're some kind of politically correct freak who faints if snybody says an unkind word, if so I don't see how you survive in this cess pool called Fornits.
So I think you're just a stupid person who wanted to be one-up on the parent and you said the first think that popped into your poor little head
Who the hell cares if you "have a two year old"? Nobody is calling a two year old an idiot.
There are a whole bunch of people who post here who have absolutely earned the title "idiot" and a whole lot more. Good for that parent and others who point it out, it may even help some of you to be told how you come across
"
WOW :exclaim: I go away and have a WONDERFUL weekend with my child and husband and I come back to someone trying to verbally bash me with their poor writing skills! What a great surprise! Anyway, whatever you are talking about has basically already been forgotten, but I do remember you bringing up my kid. No one said you were calling my kid an idiot, and since everyone is someone's child, try treating them like you would like your own to be treated! Have some respect for YOURSELF! But, anyway, how was everyone's weekend?!
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Surprising perhaps, given what a loser you seem to be--- but who the hell cares (ditto your opinion of my writing skills, honey you could use a tuck here or there in that department yourself--ase no one has had the heart to tell you).
Anyway now you can get back, along with your fornits-rat friends---to your real passion---bashing schools that help teenagers in trouble.
What a laugh you are: what could you possibly know about self-respect given your posts, your idiotic attitude, your lame attempts at one-up-manship?
Sweetheart if you have "self respect" I've got to believe that it's misguided
Rest assured that next time you bash other people who are doing good work with kids in the real world (not whatever drug den you crawl into and call home) I'll be here to let you know what a fool you really are.
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Well thank you for sharing your opinion! I will have to think about you someday! :wave:
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By all means--think about me sometime---if you ever learn to think. You dumb skank
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Wow, what a GREAT vocabulary you have. Hmm, skank? I think that was left behind WITH the 90's. Hey, if you can come up with anything more clever...please share. We are all waiting on the ends of our seats to see what profound thing you might have to say!
:lol:
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Like I'm going to let some loser-drug-girl posing as the "good mother" define what words I use
Be seeing you around here: count on it. Whenever you and your drug fiend fellow vermin start bullying other people or telling lies about programs, I'll be letting you know just how full of it I can see you are
And as you may have gathered---I don't give a crap whether you like the words I use to let you know, my writing style-- or anything else you can name
So keep that big old seat of yours on your chair and get used to being called on your shit cuz that's what's going to happen from now on
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Good to see some of these immature bullying brats who have absolutely no self censorship get put down a notch or two. Nicely done.
It's one thing to share your experiences, and quite another to bash innocent people for no apparent reason other than pure spite and ignorance.
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... meaning naming names! Little "d" gets all riled up, believe me, when his name gets tossed around.
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On 2005-05-31 19:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
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It's one thing to share your experiences, and quite another to bash innocent people for no apparent reason other than pure spite and ignorance. "
People have been telling YOU this for months now, and you really should try following their advice for once. But I guess you just prefer being a dickless antisocial loser. By the way, Who do you think you're putting on? Your posts are nothing but spite and ignorance, and you've never shared your experiences here.
You're going to convince everyone that we're all bully drug fiend liars? Please. Your credibility is shit, that's why you keep coming back here with a different story about who you are.
Your cowardice knows no bounds. Why do you refuse to get a username? Why won't you take responsibility for your own words? Why are you so ashamed to say who you are? Why, Why, Why?
I think Dniceo hit the nail on the head with his description of you. Whether or not the name is right, he captured the essence of exactly who you are. A snot nosed, angry little punk, you developed a bully complex from constantly having the shit knocked out of you because of your vulgar mouth and bitchy attitude. You're just screaming for attention aren't you? You obviously learned to get it by being a cowering prick to everyone.
Maybe Cedu really did save your life. A loud mouth little bitch like you would've been severly maimed or even killed at any normal highschool, so I can see why you're grateful to BCA for giving you that NON-VIOLENCE Agreement to hide behind for 2 years.
But the truth is that Emotional Growth Programs(like the FORMER CEDU "Schools") are SHIT. Schools like CEDU grossly overcharge their clients (parents). The academics at these "schools" are substandard. The so-called "therapy" is misdirected & usually abusive. Ultimately the specific needs of each individual stundent are overlooked and neglected. In the end most kids leave these "Schools" with more questions & problems than they came in with. EMOTIONAL GROWTH SCHOOLS are NOT worth the money, pure and simple.
Now you and your fellow converts can disagree with me on this point all you want. You can attack me, label me, lie about me,threaten me, and go on and on about how sick & twisted you perceive me to be.
But the one undeniable truth that all parents should know is this:
The most qualified person to raise, teach, and help your children is YOU. Ultimately, the key to leading our children down the right path is RESPONSIBLE AND INVOLVED PARENTING, that's it...And no so-called school, program, or professional can ever substitute for this, no matter how great they claim to be.
To Parents: no one loves your children more or cares more for their well-being than you do. And no one will guide your children better than you. You ARE the most qualified person for the job, hands down. The solution to helping our "problem children" won't be found in Abandoning them to EMOTIONAL GROWTH CON-ARTISTS. Don't push your children away, instead bring them closer to you. Embrace them, hold them tight, stay with them, make your kids know that you'll never give up on them, and that you're not going anywhere. Anyone can avoid the problem by sending their kid away to one of these hell holes, but it won't fix anything. Don't avoid the problem. Be A Parent, and work through it with your kid together. No one said it would be easy. But it's worth it, your child will be better off because of your direct involvement and sacrifices, and they will thank you for it later.
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-06-01 08:05 ]
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I absolutely agree with you Son of Serbia. Although CEDU did not pose much of a threat to me once I graduated, I in turn, took parenting to a new level with my son! Regardless of what the so called parent poster on here says, there is more to parenting that just throwing your child into a school because YOU are stuck as a parent. My mom had no choice because I was court ordered, but please believe that my son will have a new possibility as he continues to grow. Maybe this Anon poster is pissed off because they choose to back up a school that did not support their child and their child no longer speaks to them. To the Anon poster: No one really cares about what you believe because you continue to reflect yourself as a third person and someone who is not worthy of having any respect for their opinions and beliefs because you are not actually standing for what you truly believe. You are cowerding behind your harsh words. You are trying to be the "bully" and blame others for your actions. For a "parent" to do this, is uncalled for. Yes, parents make mistakes, but how the real good ones recover is by taking accountability for what they did in their life and move on. Not sit and type in a forum and completely contridict themselves. You talk about others being on this thing in the middle of the day when they really should be doing something with their life. We can say the same for you, seeing as how one of your postings was at 12 something in the afternoon. That is just one example. I will kindly ask you to raise up off my ass for a minute and take a good look in your mirror. Before you sit on a computer to preach, why don't take a stand for your OWN life and get your kids to respect or to follow a GOOD example and strive to be something out of life. Either that or you can continue to teach them to get on the internet to try to verbally knock down others :exclaim: The choice is ALWAYS yours! But anyway, Son of Serbia, you made some really good points! :tup: [ This Message was edited by: If u want to know..then ask on 2005-06-01 08:49 ]
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These last two posts by "Rodney K. of Serbia" and "If you want to fuck...then ask": what a pathetic pair these losers make
Don't waste any more oxygen on my account you little perverts---I'll be around to counter your bullying, lies and nonsense---and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
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On 2005-06-01 20:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
:cry2: Don't waste any more oxygen on my account you little perverts---I'll be around to counter your bullying, lies and nonsense---and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it." :cry2:
Like I said : You're Just Screaming for Attention!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Good boy, a nice, succinct, short response.
You could do without the unnecessary capitalization (break-through anger again or just attention-seeking as usual---who knows?) but on this post at least I give you a much improved grade of B-.
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You said you would be around to handle all the lies and bullying by the anti Cedu contigency, but you won't give any solid reasons in support of CEDU.
The fact is that it was an overpriced group home that employed histrionics and trenchant verbal and emotional abuse and coersion as therapeutic tools. They also effectively isolated us from the real world, replacing it with cult like mindset, lingo, and "experentials" created to bind you to the group.
In addition, no one received individualized help in this one size fits all environment, so kids with real issues still had to deal with them afterward, only they were compounded by CEDU's warped program influence.
Also, the fact remains that many of our experiences pre-CEDU were grossly misrepresented by the school with the explicit purpose of keeping us there. In fact, many people confess to being coerced to admit to things they never even did after heavy bombardment by CEDU staff and bullies. (Even former staff members concede to this.)
Additionally, I find it telling that you paint all anti CEDU people with the wide paint brush of being druggies and losers. Well, that is simply wrong. There are successful parents, people, employers, and employees among this group. I am a good mother and grad student and I don't do any drugs at all (and I only say this to rebut your druggy claim--because let's face it, one person's pot is another person's prozac).
If you are here to stand up to all the anti CEDU bullies, don't do it by becoming a bully yourself. Do it with solid support of the CEDU program.
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"If you want to fuck-then ask"? This is what has become of you? Pretty successful there buddy! Have a good day, why don't you go get a job or something?
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To this Shanlee girl: damn right I won't give you explanations of ANYTHING, probably shouldn't even be giving your whiney post a response.
Honey---you ARE a drug fiend, only in the hanger-on category, it's obvious. Statement like "One person's pot is another person's prozac" is tired stoner apologist rhetoric... easy to see why you needed a therapeutic school...sorry it didn't work
And to "If u want to fuck..." (maybe you know someone who does...I don't like skanks myself): Rodney the Serb sounds about your speed, you can both wallow in self-pity, blame your highschool for your life and get high.. while claiming what fabulous parents you've turn out to be
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that is is obvious you have NO clue how to read. Son of Serbia and myself along with many others, do not blame CEDU for things that are happening right now! PLEASE, before you start typing and make an ass of yourself, read things more thoroughly. Then make your conclusion.
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Obviously this anon is a waste of breath. I just listed the obvious ways that CEDU is incompetent. This anon apparently feels that anyone who calls CEDU an abusive group home is a druggy, slut, loser, and/or whiner. Well, I'm none of the above, and I can certainly vouch for the integrity of some others on this site.
This anon still can't list any pro-program benefits. In any event, it is obvious that if there were any, anon did NOT benefit from them.
By the way, is your mother Ottawa?
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The loser-chicks are way funnier than the boys though.
Just keep up the comedy, drug bimbos---and I'll keep on laughing--it's obvious in a variety of ways you think your programs damaged your lives--so don't turn around now and try to suggest that isn't what you've been saying all along. Fucking stupid deranged hypocrits.
So I'll just keep laughing---and tearing you a new one every time you hassle people who post here to disagree with your dogmatic negative irrational drug infested crap.
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Losers of the world? That would be YOU, Anon. I don't gripe about how CEDU ruined my life. I have two beautiful children, a great relationship with my parents, a graduate degree. I don't take any drugs, even recreationally, and frankly, I don't drink enough. (Unless you consider 2-6 glasses of wine a month alcoholism.) But I certainly think these schools should be shut down based on the itemized list I already offered.
So far, your main tactic appears to be to label women sluts, everyone else losers and whiners, while being unable to name a single item to support the ethics of this school. How do you think this tactic works for parents perusing this site? (And they do.)
You are really doing our work for us, so thank you.
By the way, you never answered if you are S.O.O: Son of Ottawa.
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Guess how much I care about your "itemized list"? Guess what my opinion is on your claim that you're not a drug fiend (all prior comments to the contrary)? Imagine what I think about your interest in my "secret identity"?
Right on, let's let the parents who come here decide who'se full of shit and who isn't, Personally I'm pretty confident of what the outcome will be
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Keep talking, Anon. You are really doing some good work on our behalf. You are now blatantly lying that I must be a drug fiend and a slut, simply because I believe CEDU is an unethical, unqualified group home. I can tell you were really entrenched in the program because CEDU also treated women as sluts and drug fiends even if they were nuns popping Tylenol. Way to go, stud. Keep making my case!
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ANON, you should give it up. This girl is at least ten times smarter than you are.
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Nope, I know Shanlea, and she's at least 20 times smarter than this guy. This guy is seriously scary. Its scary to think there's people like him in this world. Very sad indeed.
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Bravo Shanlea,you really kicked this anon bully's ass!
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Shanlee--this wouldn't be you posting anonymously about how smart you are, would it?
Anyway it's very funny. Many things worry me in this world--that I'm not as smart as your typical fornit's rat is absolutely not one of them
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No, honey, I was actually wondering if the other anons were you wrestling with your better half (if you have one.)
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Don't "honey" me, you silly slut---why don't you just go pop out another kid by yet another guy who shows the good sense not to marry you... isn't that your pattern, that's what I hear at least
As to the "great" relationship you've got with your parents: guess it wasn't always so, I mean no parent wants to lock their kid up somewhere for years of their adolesence, it's a last resort...who knows how it really is now between you and your mom and dad
None of this matters to me much though, I'm here to keep an eye of the collective antics of the fornits rats (you're one) who bully and slander other people and programs
Stay tuned when you do so
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you know, my point (this is another anon) is that I think it is reprehensible to name people on this site. Rodney can slam me for who knows what, and criticize me for not sharing my experiences, I don't really care. Thing is, I am a parent, I know my child's CEDU experience, and that is his/hers to share. And no, I am not Ottawa.
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Well, buddy. First you say I'm a whiner, even though I have never said Cedu ruined my life; I've simply listed facts on why it is an ineffectual, abusive program. Second,I have not had children out of wedlock, or behaved promiscuously in any way. Third, I don't do any drugs, and drink minimally. So your "druggy" tag is hilarious. I don't really need to defend my relationship with my parents. I am very fortunate to have had an exceptional relationship with them for many, many years.
Even though my other posts have displayed rational intellect, without bullying, you consistently label me a slut and druggie, which makes YOU the bully and liar.
You keep asserting you are here to put down bullies, and yet, you bully and slander people who are sincere. You still haven't explained your ties to the program or the benefits in a concrete fashion. I have been very methodical of my criticism. I actually would welcome any rational discourse favoring the program.
So far, your style supports the idea that CEDU favors abusive confrontation tactics. There is nothing in your letter to indicate any type of emotional growth that CEDU supposedly promotes. Thus, you are a poor choice to speak on its behalf.
And as for you claim you are defending people from bullies? You can't defend people from bullies when you've become one.
I am a loving, good mother to two children. I couldn't fathom calling another mother a slut, druggie, and loser for any reason, specifically since it is not true. I certainly hope you don't speak to your own mother this way or any women in your life.
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okay, PLEASE understand that there are several anons posting here. I am not the anon who is accusing you, Shanlea, of being a bad mother, druggie, etc.
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On 2005-06-03 18:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you know, my point (this is another anon) is that I think it is reprehensible to name people on this site. Rodney can slam me for who knows what, and criticize me for not sharing my experiences, I don't really care. Thing is, I am a parent, I know my child's CEDU experience, and that is his/hers to share. And no, I am not Ottawa.
"
To the alledged Anon Parent: It is indeed reprehensible to name people, if your intention is to knowingly tell lies and slander them. I've never done this. Yes, I've named many people here, especially Cedu Staff, and I've shared what I know of them....Their "Cop Outs" so the speak. Lots of Pro-Cedu Sheep got pissed off at me for sharing that, but I really don't care. I won't apologize for sharing information that I never wanted to know in the first place.
If Steve Laird did't want people knowing that he raped a 13 year girl, then he should never have told anyone.
If Rudy Benz wants people to keep quiet about him killing a black man with his car, then he should've kept his mouth shut.
Jill Benz should've kept her hands to herself, instead of feeling me up along with many other adolescent boys. Had she done that, then I wouldn't have said a thing.
If Guy Bonanno didn't want me calling him a Racist, then why did he call a girl in my peer group "Nigger" over and over and over again?
Guy reduced her to tears, and even after that he kept going. Worst of all, Cedu made me sit there and watch it!
And I really didn't want to hear Russ Decker tell us of his participation in gang rapes, or about lighting a homeless man on fire. Why did any of us need to hear that?
I didn't want to know any of these things, but since I do, I'm not going to keep quiet about it.
Maybe you agree with the Dickless Anon, and you are outraged that I would post Cedu Staff "cop outs" on the web. Too bad! The fact is that most of the things these people were doing are not simply "cop outs", they are CRIMES.
Many cedu supporters seem to believe that once one completes the Cedu program, they are automatically absolved from their past wrong doings, As if they never happened. This attitude is as arrogant as it is bullshit.
So what if Rudy Benz finished the Cedu program, and then forced it on others for the next 20 years?! It still doesn't change the fact that by his own admission, he's a killer, and that somewhere out there there's a family still waiting for justice to be done.
And right now, somewhere, there's a woman in her
early 30's who probably still suffers from the memory of being raped by Steve Laird when she was 13 years old. Where is her justice?
So Anon "Parent" (if you really are one): Maybe you really do find it reprehensible that I name names...but I don't care. I'll continue naming cedu abusers, cedu victims, and I 'll keep sharing what I know.
I noticed that you and The "Anon Bully Boy" (assuming that you really are 2 different people) insist on calling me "Rodney". Apparently you seek either to embarass me, to silence me, or perhaps to forward the Dickless One's
(Steve Arbour?)stated goal of "ruining my life."
Please feel free to continue bashing the name "Rodney Kovalic" as often as you like. This is neither my real or legal name, and no harm wil come to me from your use of it.
I sincerely doubt that you're really the parent you claim to be. Most likely you're Jackson Nash or another cedualumni.com loser, out here to lend support to your dickless friend talking shit.
Anyways, who cares about who you are? It's not like you matter anyways.
.
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-06-06 04:34 ]
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Anon Parent. For many, many years (15 to be exact), I never told my parents about what when on at CEDU. The fact is that I know all of the staff members Serb speaks of, and he is telling the truth. Could you imagine how scary it must be for a teenaged girl who has been raped to be in the same program RUN by staff members with these backgrounds? Don't you think it's a little creepy that normal teenaged behavior like smiling at the opposite sex could get you bans, dishes, and rap blasts, yet staff members would flirt with students, have us sit on their laps, pinch our butts, and worse? Some students had affairs with staff members as soon as they graduated.
What Serb and Idaho describes in his posts was the NORM for my entire duration at CEDU. How were we supposed to feel safe with the disclosures that staff made to us? This violates every ethical boundary of therapy and also made us feel that our parents isolated us in a lion's den of miscreants.
I saw how staff manipulated parents with exaggerrated and manipulative stories about their children to perpetuate their incarceration. Because we were isolated, monitored, and badgered, we just gave in... even adopting some of their scripts as our truth.
I never told my parents what really happened at CEDU because I was so affected by the environment of isolation and secrecy. I never told a friend about it because I knew they would never understand a place of that freakish nature. If my father ever went to a single rap or propheet he would have yanked me out immediately. He would have seen three things: Staff were abusive, older students were trained bullies, and the environment of heavy handed coersion did not promote truthfulness OR healing.
In fact, when I split 6 months later--which is totally against my nature as I was a chicken shit--my Dad was the one who championed my cause to stay home. Apparently, his last parent conference there gave him the creeps with all the cult-like lingo and manipulation.
I didn't go to CEDU because I was a bad person. I didn't steal, always answered my parents truthfully, easily gave up recreational experimentation with drugs 5 months prior to CEDU (and never went back), and was not a danger to any person. (I hesitate to even offer this list as there are many great kids who have made these mistakes in and out of CEDU as part of growing up.) My problems were related to traumatic events, depression, and erratic academic performance compounded by a severe hearing impairment. CEDU was not the place to meet any of these challenges.
Honestly, CEDU was just a place to park your kid (it was registered as a group home but marketed as an emotional growth school) and lobotomize him at the hands of unqualified staff.
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Didn't any of the adolescent boys who were "groped" by Jill Bentz ever file a legal charge against her? Is this not sexual molestation? The fact that the molestor was a woman and the victims were young men doesn't make it any less illegal.
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Let's face it, at CEDU, we did not exactly feel empowered to do anything. First, who would believe a "troubled teen"? Especially since we all felt the omnipotence of CEDU as they twisted our lives around for their benefit. (THere is nothing like the first shocking realization that CEDU could and would manipulate facts in raps or with parents to keep students in their place.)
Second, it is often perceived that a teenaged boy being groped by a grown woman is somehow less violating than a teenaged girl being groped by a grown man.
Whatever the case, it was strange to be in an environment where the most innocent of flirtations between teen agers would be demonized while adult staff members had us in their laps or their hands on our butts.
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I do think the parent who posted a while back had some good points, but some kind of nasty ones.
Cuz I´m pretty sure from what I know personally that these schools you all talk about here are not really all bad and I´m pretty sure that some, maybe a lot of people come out of them better than when they went in and with some good (not brain-washed) memories
Here´s just an observer´s way of looking at what happens in these forum discussions a lot of the time.
1)Somebody, often a frequent poster, makes a pretty strong maybe rude remark about somebody else´s comment. Usually the ¨somebody else¨ has said something about getting past angst over a school or that some school isn´t all bad or something middle of the road like that. The frequent poster type calls the other person mind-numberd or brain-washed, thereby disrespecting that person´s personal experience or observations
2)Then somebody anonymous comes in and defends the person who the frequent poster disrespected.
3)Then there´s an escalating name-calling back-and-forth between the anon and the frequent poster that doesn´t usually reflect well on either of them
Just my opinion, but if the frequent poster type didn´t go ballistic over the original poster´s comment about the school not being all bad or whatever, the whole cycle could be short-circuited and a number of people could avoid looking like real asses before the whole thing fizzles out
Just a thought, what do I know, maybe some of these people like looking like asses
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Well, for one, if you weren't trying to offend anyone anyone, maybe you shouldn't end your point with "Just a thought, what do I know, maybe some of these people like looking like asses". I don't think anyone likes to look like an ass. Actually, I have no clue why you would even say something like that. I was reading your post and was agreeing with some of the things, and then you end it like that? Come on now. For some people; when you leave an institution of that sort, it doesn't matter what you learned it's the institution being alleviated out of their lives that hurts them. That is why some people lash out on here. This school and the outcome is really serious to people. This website is DESIGNED for EVERYONE who has an opinion to be able to share it here. Whether they look like "asses" or not, is strictly a judgment.
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if everyone has the right, then, to their opinion, without judgement, why do you make your own judgement and become so reactive about someone who voices their opinion? "Everyone has their right to their opinion, and can share it here." Rhetorical question, please...
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ok, you say it's rhetorical but I feel the need to answer you. I wasn't reactive by anything you said. I just made a statement concerning the fact that you say you weren't trying to offend anyone. If it makes you feel better, just think of it as you offended me. There ya go!
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I think that the poster called ¨if you want to know...¨has a bit of an attitude. ¨So to¨ïf you want to know...¨, I´m getting the sense that maybe you think of this site as your own private play pen cuz you seem to be laying down a lot of rules for other people (like me) who don´t know you from Adam.
I´m the anon poster who said that people here act like asses sometimes (they do, it´s a fact...any unbiased group of people would agree, I think, and whether or not they like to look like asses, well I´m not sure what the answer is, in spite of your definitie comments on the subject) (btw I´m not the anon poster who posted just before ïf you wan to know´´´´s last post).
I have to say,¨if you want to know...¨, I do take offense at the way that you try to micro manage what other people say here(like, as in your recent posts, I should answer this for you, I shouldn´t say that because it bothers you). Who died and appointed you king, that´s my reaction to your style of communication anyway.
How about just listening to what other people say, in their own way, in their own words, and responding to that, instead of directing them on how to express themselves, how to feel, what their experiences should be based on your opinion?
You can´t seem to interact that way, you always want to order, correct, and direct.
I don´t know if you´re a bossy person in real life, but I have to bet that you are, based on what I´m seeing in your posts before, and just now. Bet that´s not the first time somebody told you this, probably won´t make a difference but it´s what I see going on here
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Thanks for sharing! :grin:
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what an articulate response, "if you want to know". So be quiet already.
Everyone has the right, as you say, on this forum, to articulate their feelings, their thoughts, their opinions. If you say that everyone has the right to say whatever they want, of course there will be some that will be offended. Duh.
So try to interact in a more positive way and stop trying to tell people what to say.
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Liked your post, it's reasonable and not unnecessarily bashing anyone
This is the idea that occurs to me, what if people who really are of good faith and wanting to really communicate, did just that. They can disagree with facts or opinions of course but reasonably and without the ad hominum stuff, you know cheap personal attacks
So at this site, people who wanted to interact politely just would.
If for example, I said that I had a bad experience at, say, BCA, I,d decribe that experience and others who were of good faith would take it at face value instead of saying I was drug infested or whatever. They might ask questions and disagree with my interpretations but just not be nasty jerks with an attitude.
And if I had a great experience at, say RMA, I could say so and tell why, and people could ask reasonable questions as they could of anyone and disagree with my interpretations, but nobody would start saying that I was a CEDU plant or brainwashed or other gratuitous insults.
And people who wanted to be of good faith like that would just do so and either ignore or kind of gently respond and try to reshape the style of the more strident and opinionated among us
I think this is kind of important, personally to find out what really went on at CEDU schools, what went on in a helpful and in a destructive sense.
Not only to help grads and people who left process their own experiences but because I hear pretty credible info that CEDU is coming back under new investors but in a similar form after the bankrupty is processed. And it would be good to offer these people input and experience that was really productive in terms of helping and protecting the kids who are sent there
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On 2005-06-08 19:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"what an articulate response, "if you want to know". So be quiet already.
Everyone has the right, as you say, on this forum, to articulate their feelings, their thoughts, their opinions. If you say that everyone has the right to say whatever they want, of course there will be some that will be offended. Duh.
So try to interact in a more positive way and stop trying to tell people what to say."
Um, ANON (not the one that just posted, the one before)! Please, take a moment and re-read every post you have written in response to something I said. I never told you what to say. I told you that you offended me, and "thanks for sharing". I don't know what you are so upset about. No one was bossing you around, and if that is how you take it, then please do not blame me for YOUR interpretations. I have no control over those. If you want to sit on here and say "DUH" and all those things, fine, no problem! It doesn't bother me that you decide to use those words to express yourself. How funny that you tell me how articulate I am, (sarcastically of course) and then you turn around and say something like that.
Anon, I hope you have fun bashing other people on this site. I am not going to engage in this any longer with you because now you are really insulting my intelligence. Have a good day, and I hope you get EVERYTHING out of this experience that you NEED! :wave: [ This Message was edited by: If u want to know..then ask on 2005-06-09 09:53 ]
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¨if you want to know...´´ there´s no need to flounce off in a huff, you can just tone down the attitude. Why don´t we all just start over in a more respectful way because we may have things to learn from each other even if we differ on a lot of things.
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Just don't like to be disrespected. But no one is going off in a huff, and I never had an attitude. I am sure that we have many things to offer to each other but I just don't like the way you come across and obviously you don't like the way I come across. But this is how I am and I am sure that is how you are. Sorry.
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Not to be disrespectful but you really do, whether you realize it or not. Sorry if you don't like my way of expressing myself, it's the only way I've got and I'd rather be real than a people pleaser
But my interest is hearing why certain people hated their emotional growth school experience and certain people didnt
I personally don't get offended very easily unless someone is obviously trying to attack me, so I don't care if anyone out there describes their experience just perfectly in some particular way that I would like it to be done.
So I'd like to hear about what happened at these schools especially the high schools and why some of you feel the way you do, either pro or con.
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I will give you the last word.....So, I am going to continue to talk to my friends and good luck with what you are looking for...
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On 2005-06-09 14:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
So I'd like to hear about what happened at these schools especially the high schools and why some of you feel the way you do, either pro or con."
You can't be serious! There are over 8,000 posts on this board, which contain exactly what you're looking for. This site is filled with accounts of people's suffering at these schools, and we've repeatedly stated our reasons for hating Cedu. Cedu was a bad place that hurt kids and ripped off their parents. This site is filled with countless examples of why this is true.
To the contrary, despite their threats, repeated personal attacks on us, and vehement defense of the program: No Cedu supporter has ever been able to explain what is good about this program, or exactly how it helps people. To date they haven't provided one solid example to support the alledged validity of the so-called "Emotional Growth Therapy."
I suggest you do some more research on this forum board before you make anymore statements like the one I quoted above. Because the information you claim to be looking for is already here, and has been here for quite some time.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-06-10 05:53 ]
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Maybe I wasn´t clear about what I´m looking for. I have of course looked at the forum archives and read that some people saw or experienced abuse.
What I have not seen (maybe I missed them)is either cases where somebody is not alleging abuse and still think these programs did not work and why they thought this was so(that is, what was lacking in the program).
Also from what I read, people who actually thought the programs helped them seem to get called names and chased off before they explain what worked for them in any detail
BTW I have read many of your posts Son of Serbia and seen that you tend to be a little touchy about people thinking that these programs worked for them.
Just want to say I have no quarrel with you but I do think based on what I know personally and other posts here that your story is not the whole story. I have reason to believe for example that there was not always abusive behavior, even in the raps you describe, unless you consider the act of placing a kid in a controlled environment abusive (I personally don´t). Let me say up front that I¨m not going to get into any swearing matches with you, you´d probably do it better than I did and that´s not my interest
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On 2005-06-10 06:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Just want to say I have no quarrel with you but I do think based on what I know personally and other posts here that your story is not the whole story. I have reason to believe for example that there was not always abusive behavior, even in the raps you describe, unless you consider the act of placing a kid in a controlled environment abusive (I personally don´t). Let me say up front that I¨m not going to get into any swearing matches with you, you´d probably do it better than I did and that´s not my interest"
Well it's obvious that you never sat in a rap then, or spent any time as a "student" in one of these hell holes.
I have no desire to "quarrel" with you either, and I am quite capable of having rational discussions with people without them degenerating into swearing matches. It all depends on who I'm talking to. And you are correct: my story is not the whole story. This website is filled with stories, and each person must tell their own. Your intentions here seem innocent enough. Still, we all heard similar claims from Ottawa 5, and well, I'm sure by now you know how that turned out.
If you really are just trying to get some answers, then I hope you find what you're looking for. But if you start acting like Ottawa 5 did: calling us liars, dismissing the abuses we suffered, and so on...then I swear to god that I'll be all over your case like flies on shit.
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Anon:
I did try to engage in rational discussion without namecalling on the "benefits" of CEDU's programs. In fact, I defended pro-program people against name calling and they turned on me anyway. Although their have been numerous posts from people describing prevalent, systemic problems with CEDU, no pro CEDU person has done the opposite. And they have the forum even if some people don't receive it well.
It's difficult because, as Son of Serbia describes, in spite of the testimony of REAL abuses or breaches of ethics, a few pro CEDU posters totally gloss over these issues. That is insulting. It's like telling a rape victim she wasn't raped.
And the thing is, these incidences were NOT isolated. They were systemic.
To people who say "get over high school." Well, it wasn't high school. (It wasn't a SCHOOL--it was a group home) The fact is that things that happen to us, good and bad, especially at crucial developmental stages, affect us. It is silly to think it doesn't. If you are isolated in a cult-like setting for a few years, it is naive to believe it wouldn't have long lasting effects.
In fact, I know a lot of students who were still high on CEDU indoctrination (and that is exactly what it is) when they graduated only to gradually confront the true nature of the program. It takes awhile, sometimes, for the Kool Aid to wear off. Moreover, you don't want to accept that the program was worthless after investing two years at CEDU. Two years of indoctrination, isolation, and intense, mindfucking raps and "experentials".
The other thing that happens is even though you resist at first, you eventually buy the lie CEDU tells you in order to survive. You are simply broken down until you submit.
Last, many pro CEDU people talk about how difficult it was to re-acclimate to the real world. Well, no shit!! You weren't living in one. For a $100,000, CEDU's priority should have been to help youths live a healthy life in the REAL WORLD. Instead, we learned how to live at CEDU. This is why some of the most abusive, well trained bullies went back to CEDU as staff so they could perpetuate it all over again.
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Thanks for the input Shanlea and Son of Serbia.
I certainly accept what you (or anyone else) says is true in his or her own experience, unless I have reason to believe that the person involved is a liar or unable to distiguish reality from unreality. I have no reason to believe that of either of you and I would be very skeptical of anyone who just decided that you were liars because they didn´t like your story. That´s not what I´m about.
However, there are other people, some who I know personally, some who I´ve spoken to online, who tell a very different story about the CEDU programs they´ve been in. I simply have to use my own best judgment there also and I don´t believe that these people act, in any aspect of their lives that I´ve seen anyway, as if they are brainwashed, bullies, or fall into any of the categories Shanlea alludes to.
With respect, neither of you have walked in their particular shoes and I can´t see why they (or I) would just accept your interpretation, Shanlea or Son of Serbian, of their own experience. Perhaps they had different teachers or counselors, perhaps the ¨raps¨they were in were run differently, it might have been a different time period, one can think of many plausible reasons why the stories are different.
You may wonder why I care, a legitmate question. All I´ll say at this point, although I may later be more explicit, is that I am considering invessting in a program, for reasons of wanting to help out of control kids. Anyone who can give me info pro or con, I appreciate.
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Should have mentioned that I am communicating with people on other forums besides this one, because it often is the case that people who feel one way or the other about something tend to congregate in different places, and it seems to me that you need to look at different groups in most situations to get the overall picture.
So Shanlea or Son of Serbia are welcome to respond if they think they want to say more, Im pretty good at not taking the bait in pointless arguments so no particular worry there. Id also like to hear from any others who want to talk about how they feel about their emotional growth school experience, in a good or in a bad and in a mixed way
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I heard, from a very reliable source; that there are some staff members that are putting money together to buy CEDU back. They are trying to take it back to when the school used to help kids, instead of becoming a prodominantly medicated therapy session. Has anyone else heard anything about this?
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This is the anonymous poster looking for information primarily because of an investment interest in an emotional growth school.
Seems unlikely that staff persons however good they are would have the capital to do this on their own, I could be wrong if they were planning a much smaller school or have a financial source outside of their own resources though.
A model that was not so medication oriented and overall medicalized is what we´re looking at too. Bringing really good staff into the process sounds important to me, can anyone name some that you consider superior, even if you don´t like the schools they were at?
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From the California or Idaho schools?
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Either, it´s my understanding at least from what I´ve beem told that a lot of these teachers and counselling staff moved among the different CEDU schools over time anyway.
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And what's your motivation? Helping "out of control" kids? Or making good on your investment. And who decides which kids are "out of control"? And exactly whose "control" are they "out of"? Whose call will that be?
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I can't answer for this guy but I would think that it's the parents who decide when kids are out of control, unless you think it should be the government or the kids themselves (who are unlikely to make that call if they are indeed out of control).
Also I don't see any problem with both helping others and also making good on an investment, it's called enlightened self-interest and unless you're one of the comrades here who's got a problem with capitalism, that's generally the way that a lot of positive things come into existence in this country.
It sounds like this guy has a plan, if he's sincere, I hope he pulls it off.
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"enlightened self interest." Uh huh...what a glorious term.
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Why the sneering tone, comrade? Lots of good things do come out of the enlightened self-interest that you sneer at.
Maybe you've got a better system in mind, let's all go stand in line to buy scarce things like cheese or one-kind-fits-all shoes in a soviet style economy
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Whatever makes you happy.....
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Why can't staff that used to work there, or might have the same "good" intentions that you talk about buy and run another school will the purpose for helping kids? I knew a lot of staff members that I can see taking a school that was not so concerned with getting the money from parents but getting kids off the streets and things like that, that would do a GREAT job running a program designed for that.
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I mean maybe some person or persons could be independently wealthy or need very little in their live and be willing to devote themselves to a program for almost nothing, like Buddhist monks or something.
Mostly though it doesn't work that way, and a lot of good things can and do happen under a profit motive model.
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I didn't say they would't charge for the school... ::bangin:: I said that wouldn't be their alterior motive! Why is that so hard for someone who isn't a Buddist Monk! What do you plan on using for motivation? Parents' money, or the dying need to help out kids who think they have no where else to turn, or have choose the wrong path for far too long?[ This Message was edited by: If u want to know..then ask on 2005-06-14 08:58 ]
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Having worked for a number of extremely successful non profits over the years, I can assure you that the "for profit " route is NOT the only way to be successful.
"Non profits" are businesses, many with significant budgets. Simply stated, their main motivation is to provide a humanitarian service, not to make a profit. And they are accountable as such.
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I'm just really suspicious of people who think profit is necessarily bad---why should it be if it is come by in honorable ways and someone is paid a fair amount for a service or commodity.
There may be tax or other reasons to choose profit versus non-profit or the other way around, but to slam the concept of profit just sounds like some old lefty who's sorry the 60's are over and the Soviet Union is no more.
If somebody hate capitalism so much (it is based on the ability to make a profit you know) well, there's still always Cuba--- at least until old Fidel is six feet under and the world moves forward there too
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I don't think I am slamming profit organizations. I mean, I work for one. But the trick is the person, or persons running that organization. The more profitable CEDU became, as far as the parents are concerned, the less they cared about the kids that they were "helping". It seemed like they forgot that the kids were the whole reason why they were making that money. It is the same with the business I am in. Not everyone I work with is working in the industry because it makes them a more complete person or because they really care about what they do, they work here to get a paycheck. OF course there is nothing wrong with getting paid (I will be the first to say that), but these people that are ONLY worried about the profit; forgeting about helping their clients. They try to pull the wool over their eyes and make more and more off of them. That is my opinion of why people are skeptical of "profit" organizations. In turn, there are non profit organizations that push the fact that they are non profit to get higher "donations". I actually watched a young girl in Planned Parenthood come out from having a "free" pregnancy test and the receptionist would not let her go without a cash donation! So it can go either way. However, it is easier to shut down a "non profit" organizations by not respecting their clients than to shut down a "profit" organization for simply not caring!
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Hey, "anon". What's with the recurring refernces to Communism, etc? It's getting old and rather offensive. Is it simply your attempt to be humorous? OK haha...let's move on.
I do not "slam capitalism". I'm just suggesting with the track record of the existing and former "for profit" schools, perhaps it's worth considering a "not for profit" whose motivation is certainly more clear. Yes, there are "not for profits" that have not always acted above board, but those are the exceptions.
And yes, I'm an old(not so)"lefty" who is sorry that the 60's are over, but, no, I don't miss the Soviet Union. And yes, I believe in getting a paycheck. I even get a fairly nice one. Are you on some kind of "Commie hunt". I think you need update to a new enemy. It seems that you're the one whose missing the "Comrades". No one to rag on. Can you say "McCarthyism"??
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Haha, now THAT, I find to be weird.
Personally, words don't offend me that much--and unless you were posting as an anon yourself Tonkatsu, I've never used the word "communism" in communication with you. Generally I pick my own vocabulary, though, so you may read it here again. Hope you can adjust.
I mean you can't expect me to observe a life-time ban because you don't like the word?? Can you??
And btw if you want to start tossing out some old tired buzz words such as McCarthyism, go for it, it's all just stick and stones to me.
What does offend me, more than words ever could, is disingenuous lefties (don't know if you're one of them) who want to pretend---now that their movement is pretty much past history---that they really are just moderate people, trying to be fair or something along innocuous lines like that.
Hell, to hear them tell it now they never wanted to force their collective will on anyone or soak the rich. Why, they don't really hate capitalism or even profit (although not-for profit is so-o-o much more correct!!) to here theme talk these days.
Sound familiar?
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I didn't come here to argue with you...just to express my opinion, which has been expressed, so I bid you "adieu". Have a happy life.
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I mean that's your point isn't it?
Adieu to you too, T-su.
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On 2005-05-28 07:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sonny boy---how are YOU managing to get laid--not enough maybe?---since getting some is obviously so urgent to you that you suggest it for just about everyone who posts here and disagrees with you
And you're here a helluva lot yourself for someone with an active (pretend?)social life---but maybe you and your honey are so-o-o high all the time that sex ain't a priority.
BTW I'm not the "parent" (am a parent though), I just happened to agree with him/her.
The post you comment on in your latest rant is MINE
"
Ottawa again. Just wanted to point that out...
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On 2005-05-30 04:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sounds like dniceo7 can dish it out but not take it so good, a typical fornit's bully-boy-wannabe with the usual feet of clay (and a full diaper a whole lot of the time)
Listen "little d", YOU'RE the one who started this-- mouthing off at me for no reason--acting like the little prick you are-trying to be a bad ass flamer---telling people they needed to get laid if they didn't salute your party line about your god given right to name innocent people here at your infantile often incorrect whim
You say you're "not interested" in what I have to say??? Isn't that a fucking shame, maybe you should have thought of that when you took off after people for no reason but that you're a brat with an attitude
Thanks for the advice but I"ll respond if I want to--how about that? And you can read my responses or ignore them, that's your choice
And if you continue to act like a spoiled immature selfish prick I'll continue to point it out whenever I like"
And again, with the same old, hackneyed b.s.
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Are you kidding? That was someone's Mom trying to talk shit to me? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Someone hook this lady up with some meds fast. She's completely lost it.
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On 2005-09-22 17:25:00, dniceo7 wrote:
"Are you kidding? That was someone's Mom trying to talk shit to me? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Someone hook this lady up with some meds fast. She's completely lost it. "
No, not kidding. This is the MOM.