Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: GregFL on October 06, 2005, 06:20:00 PM
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This thread is to honor our friends that were in the seed and have since passed, for any reason. Please list the name,seed status, cause of death, and time frame.
I will start.
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Dave Leverone, Seed graduate.entered in 1973, graduated in 1974
Died of an injected drug overdose, approximately 1979.
RIP my friend!
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Robin Rollin was a friend of my brothers. Don't know whether he graduated or not. Just know he's gone now.
The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921
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Bennett Beverly, seed graduate 1974
Committed suicide,date unknown by me reportedly jumped off the skyway bridge
RIP my friend.
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Chris Kelly, Seed Graduate 1974
Motorcycle accident, approx 1978
RIP my friend!
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"Please list the name,seed status, cause of death, and time frame."
and big brother to one of my oldest friends,
Paul McCutcheon, 1973 Seed graduate, overdose, 1977. Preceding his wife by two days, also overdose. What a senseless waste, a shame and he will never know how much and by how many people he is missed... We still love you Macky
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John Grimm
Cleveland Mid 70's
Died Saturday cause of death unknown
The Grimmer will be missed
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Wow this is a shocker, John came back to the Seed for about a year in the mid 80's along with his wife Beth and baby son little John.
John lived with me or in the house I was living at for about 3 or 4 months. He had is problems but was basically a very nice guy.
Sorry to hear this cause I always like him and thought he was a nice man.
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John was my oldcommer when I arrived at the Seed. I was 24 and found very little to enjoy or celebrate in life. His overwhelming good spirit and boundless affection saved my life. I can't tell you how many times I have thought about him over the years. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and loved ones.
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"Scooter Young" Brother of Roger and Marnie Young.
Seedling 1973/1974, graduate I believe. My buddy from Porto Cadiz apartments when I was 13
Died in a car accident in his mid twenties.
RIP my friend.
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I am sad to hear about John Grimm. Here's my memories:
John coming to visit me at the little house on Clague road when I was a newcomer in Cleveland. He drove a little Triumph Spitfire and always brought his own 6-pack of Diet Coke (most of my oldcomers where giant guys, in the Cleveland tradition). He always had a big, friendly grin. I think he worked as a welder. Later I remember him coming to Florida with his wife and child. I am sad to say, I kept my distance, because of the weirdness of a Seed guy with a wife and child, and because (you could always tell) he seemed to be on 'Seed probation' for some reason.
I remember he and his wife and baby having their own separate area at the beach when we played football on the weekends, because they didn't fit into either 'guys' or 'chicks.' Weird to think of that.
Oh well, he was a sweet-natured guy and I wish the best for his family.
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I remember John G. as being one of the volunteer staff members in Cleveland when I came in.
My memory of John Grimm involves when he came back to the Seed and went on the program again in Ft Lauderdale, early 80's right? After sometime he went back to work 2nd shift as a welder at one of the docks in Ft. Lauderdale.
My job was to pick him up in the morning about 8 or so when he got off work and drive him back to his apartment where he lived with his wife & son. I don't know why he wasn't driving himself, but that was what i was told to do.
This went on for a few weeks. One day I picked him up as usual, he said he was very tired and layed back in my car seats. I had a '63 Olds, with the bucket seats went far back.
He sort of seemed to be sleeping and then all of a sudden he said he needed to stop at a gas station to use the bathroom. I obliged and when he came out he got in the car and said he was going to nap.
I dropped him off and thought nothing of it and went back to the Seed.
Sometime later, Bob W, came and got me off the door and asked what John and I had been doing? I said nothing, he gave me the "Seed stare" and I verbally repeated what had occurred.
Bob said John's wife called the Seed and said that John had came in high on heroin. I was like "wow" I didn't know. Later, I was told he admitted to staff that he had shot up at the gas station. But, because all I had ever seen prior to coming to the Seed was pot smoking, I didn't know the signs.
I guess he started over and I never was asked to pick him up again. But, For the rest of my time down there I avoided him, partially mad at him about that, because I myself was always on Seed probation. And it took some convincing on my part to get them to not put me on the front row as well.:smile:
But, obviously the guy was trying to do change his life, otherwise why would he have gone back down there.
He waas one of the good guys.
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John was a bear of a man with heart to match his size. He came to the back in the mid 80's because he had started to use drugs again and wanted to go for a second round to kick the habit.
When John first came back he was sent to live in the guy?s house that I used to live in and John was the second new comer to come in on the program to live where I was at. It must have been around early 1984 and I was still on the program when this took place.
John always had a smile or laughing and was very happy to be back, it always seamed to me that he tried very hard to carry his load but always seamed to very self conscience how he was viewed by the long timers and how he thought he was perceived (as a fuck-up). Thru-out the years I noticed that about a lot of the people who had come back to the Seed for a second time. It was very common and evident how people struggled to convince themselves that their words were true, due to the fact that they felt they had failed with their past attempt at staying straight.
At this time I was going thru my issues and perceived him as a friend, fellow Seed kid, rival and a bunch of other conflicting emotions. I can remember him relating in the group once on what seamed to me an endless talk about himself, and as I listened the more bored and frustrated I got until Bob W. notice and gave me a stern stare from the rap leaders stool. In time I remember this incident and took it as a testament to my own immaturity and selfishness.
After a couple of months his wife Beth moved down to live with the Seed girls bringing with her John their baby son who was about 2 years old at the time. After a short period of time John was allowed to move in with Beth and little John in an apartment in which they could restart their lives anew down in South Florida.
During this time I lost some of the closeness I had with him as (I thought) he concentrated on his family and mending that relationship.This lead to a very strange and volatile confrontation on the beach late one afternoon. As it turned out Beth had become pregnant during this time and I guess had gone to Libby and confided this information to her. Libby told Art about this situation and Beth and John were told that due to their financial situation the best decision would be for Beth to get an abortion. Beth and John disagreed with this and Libby went ballistic turning this into a big confrontation at the beach in front of the whole group. John and Beth along with little John walked away never to be seen of heard of again. As they walked away Libby informed the group what a couple of assholes they were for not listening, never for once thinking about the magnitude of such a decision would leave on someone for the rest of their lives.
The incident left such an impression on me and for the first time (while I was at the Seed) leaving me with a moral dilemma and I must admit I secretly sided with John and Beth.
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A bear was a good discription. Quite a lovable one at that. I have not seen him in years. But just thinking of him puts a smile on my face. He will be missed.
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Does anyone know what city he lived in?
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There is also Mary Chapin, St.Pete seed grad, died flipping her car over and off the interstate. Alcohol involved. 1999
Dan Hubble died 1976 from self-inflicted gunshot to head. 1976
Bill Kennedy- , 1974- St.Pete seed grad. died 1976 form Hodgkins Disease
All were in the St.Pete seed 73, and graduated.
May they and others RIP.
Julie
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Julie, I reformatted your post a little.
I remember those people.
Thanks for the post.
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I can't remember the names of the people I met at the cleveland seed 76-77. I didn't make friends in the way many of you seemed to have. While I was in the program I believed that I loved everyone there but I didn't trust anyone; I was always, always on guard. It still amazes me when I read that some of you actually joked with other seedlings. The only laughter I shared was a sort of hysterical release to staff approved jokes. After I graduated there were only a couple of grads I trusted- after all I could always be sent back. We hung out together, none of us ever went to raps but we didn't socialize with any outsiders. We made up for not going into raps by constantly scrutinizing and correcting each other. One night several of us ran into another graduate. An older guys in his twenties named(we were all in our teens), I think, Gary?
My friends, being guys(I am a girl or shall we say chick)knew him better. We all sat and talked a long while at an ice cream parlor in Shaker Heights and when he left we talked about how clear and honest he was. Each of us said our meeting with him had made us aware of some flaw we were developing like getting our heads out of wak. We all went home swearing to do better.
The next day he was on the front page of the paper for robbing a bank.
Don't know what happened to him after that, maybe someones else out there does.
I only remember one graduate who died and again I don't remember his name. I remember he had a brother in the program too. They were very close in age. He electricuted himself in a power station. I don't remember if anyone knew if it was accidental or suicide. I remember my mother saying that she had been told he was all screwed up again but you never knew with my mother. She lied especially when she thinks it will serve her--like scaring her daughter into staying well behaved.
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This just makes me think of houw you really can't talk to someone for a few minutes and know what is inside of them, in their heart. It takes time to get to know people, and ultimately, they know who they are best. This whole idea runs contrary to what went on in places like the Seed where they acted like they could tell who was honest and who wasn't.
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Cherie Farber - in the Seed 1974 - married, mom of young two sons, died in her late 30s in the late 90's, cause of death unknown.
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To this day as an adult in my mid-40s, two of the biggest funerals I have ever attended were the funerals of Dan Hubbell and Bill Kennedy. An amazing out pouring of love for both.
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I hope the anon from Cleveland 76-77 will choose a user name and post some more. I was Cleveland Seed 78, so I would share your memories.
It was a beautiful old Catholic orphanage, I think. Remember the statues of saints in the reception area, surrounded by ivy? Very surreal.
W
Oh, and just so I don't hijack this thread let me add Ray K. to the list of post-Seed death rembrances. I lived with him when he started an affair with another former staff member, which caused a whole lot a shit. I understand that he has died; I saw that posted elsewhere on this site.
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Ray did pass away of some illness a few years ago.
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Billy was 2 years ahead of me at Holy Name school in Gulfport & he was always looked up to as a leader, of course at that time it was a leader of juvenile delinquents. I remember he was quick witted and sharp tongued and of course being a 6th grader when he was an 8th grader in much awe of his grade school "power & might".
I did not even realize he was in the Seed until after I had graduated myself and saw him one evening at the movie theatre at tyrone mall and we had a chance to talk, and then it seemed almost as fast he was gone. At that time Hodgkins Lymphoma did not have the incredibly high cure rate that it has now...
Dan was in the "downtown" group of old-timers that Robin and others have talked about, the guys (many staff grads like Mike & Bob R**** & Dana D******) were a part of this group that rented the house down by Bayfront medical center. I remember Dan as such a kind, and gentle person who had such a great sense of humor and loved to have fun, I heard he had moved to Lauderdale to be on staff at the Seed there and then it seemed not long after that the tragic news of his death shocked those of us in St Pete who had known & loved Dan. I have talked with many other Seedlings and there are still questions and different opinions as to what happened. All I knew is that both of these great guys were gone, too fast and too soon before their time...
They are still missed...
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So, Dan Hubbell was on Staff when he shot himself in the head?
Also, does anyone know the name of the kid that shot himself in 1973 before group?
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I am not really anon. I had a name but I was gone for a bit and now it seems not to work.
Yeah, the building was amazing. I remember when my parents first brought me in I thought I was going to some sort of convent school, which confused me because my parents are reformed catholics. They always said they left the catholic church so their children wouldn't be terrozed like they had been as kids so when we were climbing the steps I thought, "I've really done it now they're throwing me to the nuns."
Did you have your intake in the one of the catacomb of electic blue rooms downstairs? I think they must have been the old bedrooms or something. I was in the program for nine months and never saw all the rooms in that huge place. I am sure you saw more since you were in the inner circle.
I was in the please don't notice me and graduate me quickly circle.
The person I most likely think we could both have known was Charlie Gilbert cause he was in the program when it closed. I knew his brother, Norman better. Charlie was one of those kids who didn't have a drug problem but came in the program because his brother had gone through it.
The only woman I remember almost trusting was named Diane. She became staff while I was in the program so I assume she was around when you were there too.
but as you said I don't want to derail this thread too much. Shall we start a cleveland one?
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I remember he died on the beach, just don't know which one. I remember something about a camera, a wallet, and being shot behind the left ear. Hard to imagine how one could commit suicide that way.
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I just remembered Steve Cason. He was a graduate of St.Pete seed in 1973/4.
Passed away about 5 yrs ago or longer from a massive heart attack.
See ya in Heaven Steve! Love you,
Julie
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Steve was a friend of mine in middle school and also in the seed. He was a big cool guy.
RIP Steve!
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While I never knew her, Someone needs to post Suzie Barker. Suzie came after I disassociated with the seed.
RIP Suzie.
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Big Frank, died of a drug overdose two years ago, was a poster of this forum.
RIP Frank!
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Ray Kienzle, brother of Bob Kienzle, brother in law of Libby and Seed graduate, died several years ago.
I never knew Ray personally but dialogued with someone close to him that was deeply disapointed that Bob K. and Libby Didn't come to the funeral.
RIP Ray.
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This info is somewhat outdated, but Bob hasn't spoken to his mom in years either, which broke her heart, she never did anything to him but raise him the best way she knew how, all things considered. I can't remember now if she's alive or not, but he broke her heart and devastated her spirit when he abandoned her for total commitment to Libby and the Seed.
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Yeah, I never knew these people. But I did speak w/ his sister one time a few years back. It wasn't just the funeral. They knew Ray didn't have a lot of time. So the family came together to spend some time with him while they could. Their sister was looking for help in getting a message through to Bob to come join them. But either the Seedlings were not giving him his messages or he just wasn't returning calls.
I wish I had had some way to help her. It was so sad. I sincerely hope the guy will check in w/ his family now that the Seed is gone.
If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
--Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet
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I lived with Ray K. in a suburban house in Sunrise, I think. It was a nice place with a screened in pool in the back. Ray's brother Bob lived there too, as well as Steve H. and Jeff P. They had a siamese cat named Buckwheat. I moved in with Jack H. and Craig D., both of whom worked with me at Broward Medical Center. This was about 1980 or so.
This was one of the nicest places I had ever lived. Having a pool was great, and we had cable! Ray was the ringleader. Being a former staff member, he had a lot of credibility. He had been a hard core drug user, as had Steve, who had lost a couple of fingers by shooting up. Ray was a redneck, and still wore his big ole cowboy hat and boots and proudly listened to Country music. Bob was the slick, selfish pretty boy, Steve was the comedian, Jeff was the brilliant burnout from a wealthy family. Jack was Felix Ungerer and Craig was his side kick. I was awed by Bob, and to a lesser extent Steve. Jeff was someone I always wanted to be. He had become a master boat carpenter and ran the business out of our garage. He was always working on some intricate woodwork for Art's boat, and this gave him a lot of respect and attention (and also meant he didn't have to do a lot of time hanging around with newcomers or going to raps).
Jeff had restored an old upright piano which sat in our dining room. AS far as I know, no one knew how to play it. One day, Ray sat down and pounded out some boogie woogie and ragtime music - pretty good, and totally unexpected from this self-described redneck.
This apartment had a lot more freedom than I was used to. Ray and Steve were pretty intolerant of rules, and we used to make fun of raps and Seed rules to some extent. We also flaunted the rules a bit, watching video porn (until staff found out).
But breaking the rules went further with Ray. He ended up dating another staff member and former stewardess named Laura (who had once turned down a date with Burt Reynolds because he was 'too short') which ended up in huge controversy. Ray was found out and booted from the Seed, and he turned into an 'anti-Seedling' - he'd drive by the building screaming the seed sucks, he graffiti'd Art's house and car, I think, and did some other outrageous stuff. I will never forget posing as 'fishermen' with Jeff P. (complete with rods and reels) on the intercostal so we could watch Art's house in case Ray came by during this time.
So, I have great memories of Ray.
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Hey Cleveland:
When I used to stay the night at the Seed it always seemed to be with Jeff P. He always played the piano in the back office, jazz piano.
I always idolized/envied the Kienzle's because it seemed that the rules we had to obey didn't apply to them. It seemed like they mostly did what they wanted.
I remember Jim H, in much the same way, but he was gone by the time I moved down in '82.
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I never heard Jeff play - too busy in the shop doing boat stuff. He was a genius.
The other kid who played piano - now I am blanking on his name. Dark hair, blue eyes - very nice guy. I think he stuck around til the end.
And I worked wiyh Jim H, and Cindy, who he later married. I loved that guy, and yes, he was a renegade too. They split soon after getting married. I think she was an 'honorary' Seed kid.
I always did like hanging around with the 'bad kids,' even if I wouldn't be one myself!
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I am amazed that you figured out who the bad kids were. Really, with the exception of the girl on my front row who ran away once she was back at school (and she ended up in the front row again--didn't want that.) I never saw many bad kids at least not ones that found ways to live around/above the rules.
I remember a graduate named Lori. She came in all the time but almost never raised her hand. She sat calmly, no manufactured enthusiasm and raised her hand once every couple days. Sometimes she came into the rap for just like ten minutes and then quietly walked out. I remember wondering why her demeanor wasn?t indicative of druggy slack. Everyone talked about her being very wise and she did seem nice.
During my three nights she was made staff.
I created the theory that once you graduated you were beyond question, but it was a theory I never tested on myself. Once I graduated. I went back to the Seed exactly once. On my anniversary week, open meeting night. I didn?t go in early and I cried the entire time I was supposed to speak. That way I didn?t have to risk saying the wrong thing. Safely weeping and occasionally squeaking out, ?I am just so thankful.?
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Funny, as soon as I read your description of Lori I remembered her. She was very pretty, with short dark hair and pale skin. She did have that air of someone wise beyond her age, and I do recall that she spoke very little. Maybe she lead raps? I don't recall. She was sort of the opposite of Diane M, another young staff member. Superfically, they resembled each other a bit, but I remember Diane as being frantic, and I thought she was kind of crazy. She was sort of 'gung ho' about it all.
Diane came down to Florida when Cleveland closed, I don't know what happened to Lori.
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Lori yeah, brown hair brown eyes. She had brothers in the program too.
That's too bad about Diane. She went from three nights to staff when I was there. She lived on the east side like me so I often rode with her or ran into her while taking the bus to the seed (on my three nights.) She went to a catholic girls school in Cleveland Heights. Now doubt she had it bad, but I always experienced her as being relatively gentle-- Someone who would talk about herself instead of scrutinizing me.
I don't know if this was a chick thing, maybe guys didn't do it so much, but chicks turned each other in and when we didn't we would subtly threaten to do so. Little comments like,? Are you wearing a bra today," or "don't you worry that those pants are almost like jeans," were generally ways we threatened each other. The unstated message was, I am unhappy about something you did or said to me and I may find an infraction to turn you in for. Sometimes it was just self-preservation. One time I was planning an outing with two other girls. When one of them suggested we go to a particular park the other insisted it was a druggy park. That began a panic,which ended in each of us calling the staff to report the others. Crappy but that's war.
I never worried about that threat with Diane,
Even if she was seedling hook-n-line she seemed determined to lead by example. She never said or did those sort of catty things the other girls I knew did. I actually felt able to relax in her company; something I felt with only a couple people in the program.
Sorry to hear she turned rabid when she was staff. She was only like seventeen when she made staff.
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I think Diane might have blasted me once in the group for something. I'm not sure. I think she was a sweet person but she was really hard core. Do you remember another jr. staff member named Alex? His family was Greek and owned restaurnats. They brought food to the Seed that was so much better than PB&Js.
Do you remember my brother, Evan? He would have been on the front row with you, I think. He ran away three times, once to go to a concert. Finally he caved in, and swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I came home from college and he talked me into coming in! He is a writer now; actually, he's had a pretty interesting history.
He was friends with Diane's brother, who I think was named Bob; Evan said he was the most psychopathic person he'd ever met. Other Seed kids he hung around with were Chris V., Rick something, and Waide. Waide was the only one who came to Florida.
I don't think guys turned each other in quite like the girls did. I think the guys tended to be really hard on their newcomers, but once you were in, they slacked off as much as they could get away with. Sort of. Keeping in mind that getting crazy for us meant skipping a rap or watching something X rated. Maybe guys and girls at that age have a different code.
My Cleveland Seed memories are so vague. I was only there for 3 months or so, so I was a sequestered newcomer. Most of the kids on the program were younger than I was, and the jr. staff too. I fit a little better into things once we moved to Ft. Lauderdale.
Do you remember Tom D---------r? He was a character. He was obsessed with Dodge Darts and Neil Diamond - bad Neil Diamond like 'September Morn' and 'Hot August Night' - not the good stuff! He moved from Cleveland down to Florida and then disappeared. I liked him; he was such an original guy. He was nerdy, smart and funny. I bet he was asked to leave for some reason.
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I remember visiting the Seed in Ft Lauderdale when I was in the 10th or 11th grade '80. My parents were vacationing in Pompano Beach and they dropped me off at the gate on SR84. Bob W, met me and ushered me in to the intake office near the gate, I was sequestered there for a 1/2 hr and Lybbi showed up and asked me if I have done drugs and if Bob or Evan had. I was literally shaking in my heels, cause I didn't know what was up.
She proceeded to tell me if I wanted to stay apart of the Seed, when I went back to Cleveland to have nothing to do with Evan or Bob. For a second my heart broke, as I loved those guys, and was confused about what if anything we had done
So, when I returned I did that and told Evan and Bob I had to end the friendship.
They called my parents and hung up on me for a few weeks and then it was over.
Typical Seed story.
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I remember Evan coming down for a visit in '79 or so. Everything seemed cool. Then I believe around the time you came down, or just before, I was told that some of the Cleveland kids had fucked up. And I didn't have any contact with my brother after that, although I did come home one
Christmas about '80 or '81 and I gave him a 22 rifle just to piss off my mom, so I must not have been told to have no contact. It's so hazy in my memory.
Who was the kid with the scratchy voice that I liked, was his name Rob? I vaguely remember that he liked to sail.
I remember a lot of Evan's Seed friends went thru my 'old druggie ties' - like my stereo equipment - and 'confiscated' it. Ha ha.
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Yeah, pretty sure I went to school with him.
he went to Hawken right? Didn't know him well, he came to the upper school when I was a sophmore, I think. I am sorry to say my father may have had something to do with his ending up there. He pushed for a lot of Hawken kids to go in. Did you Know Bennet B? Jolly, curly haired guy. I already asked you about Charlie G. who was graduated over the phone the night the seed left.
If your brother doesn't recall me he would probably remember one of my brothers. My father worked at the school so my family was all over the place; the Brandt's Amy(me),Peter, Aaron.
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Yeah his name was Rob M. And he loved to sail. We used to sail out on Lake Erie with his Dad near Astabula. I think Evan went once or twice. He later moved to Fla, before me and got kicked out before I moved down in '82. A really good guy.
I remember breaking off with Evan as being a hard thing, We were very close and yeah we used your stereo and listened to Aerosmith, Jimi Hendrix, etc. Evan had a guitar and played a few lick as I recall.
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diane is still a compasionate person. your description of her as rabid is a bit over the top. i think she definetly believed in the seed, and being termed gung ho is probably a very accurate description. what i think would be neccessary to point out is diana lives as she speaks, in my opinion, which would be where i would fault some of the things that happened at the seed, where people didnt. i dont care if someone is pro seed, or against, but if you say you expect people to behave a certain way, then you should be behaving the same way. at least you are honest under those circumstances regardless of whether i agree with the specifics or not. diane i think is that kind of person, and i admire that. she is very compassionate and i think generally in recent times had a very realistic view of people. she's of course imperfect like we all are, but i think her heart is in the right place, and would be a trustworthy person. more so then most people i know. i think your early view of her is an accurate description of some of her qualities.
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I didn't mean to slam Diane I just meant that she was very humorless about the Seed when I was on the front row and that turned me off. I liked Scott and Ginger and people that made me laugh. In fact, I would love to meet all of the Seed kids that I spent time with today and talk and laugh about our time together - wonder who would show up to an 'unsantioned' reunion? (Otherwise, of course, you'd have to have two reunions - one for the 'Seed was great and saved my life' bunch and another for the 'Are you kidding? Seed was a cult' group. Or maybe three, because the Seed split into two camps when it closed, one loyal to Art and the other to Lybbi. Complicated!
Bennet B. Doesn't ring a bell - I think I might remember a Charlie. Yeah, my brother went to Hawken and so did my best friend, Scott H., who I had to leave behind as an 'old druggie friend.' I didn't know of any other Hawken kids who came on the program.
For the life of me I can't remember an Amy, but really, everyone just sort of blurred into the background for me. Especially at first, all the Seed kids seemed so much alike to me, and I left Cleveland after 3 months.
Are you still in the Cleveland area?
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I had graduated by the time you were there and I only went once for my anniversary so you would have never met me.
there were a few of us seed graduates at Hawken, we hung together, spoke seed talk but stayed away from the program.
I don't remember Evan ever speaking with us. He probably thought we were fucking up.
A split at the end? An Art camp and a Libbi camp? I knew nothing of this. Please do tell!
I have lots of family in Cleveland but I live in Vermont.
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Otherwise, of course, you'd have to have two reunions - one for the 'Seed was great and saved my life' bunch and another for the 'Are you kidding? Seed was a cult' group. Or maybe three, because the Seed split into two camps when it closed, one loyal to Art and the other to Lybbi. Complicated!
Maybe more than that. How bout the fence-riding-middle-of-the-roaders (yet to be run over) not inclined to pledge allegiance to any particular faction?
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I remember a lot of Evan's Seed friends went thru my 'old druggie ties' - like my stereo equipment - and 'confiscated' it. Ha ha."
HEY! According to the revisionist history of John Underwood, that Shit never happened!!!
:grin:
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I love Vermont, but I haven't been there since I was in High School. We rode our bikes thru the Burlington Gap, it was so beautiful.
Yes the Seed broke up acrimoniously, it is covered elsewhere in this site, you could do a search for it. Apparently, there was a big come down rap where some of the staff members confronted Art, and that was that. Can you imagine? But I wasn't there and don't know much. I believe there are a few kind former Seedlings, and not the gung ho ones either, who visit him.
There are some people on this site who see him as some sort of a bad guy, but I have a hard time with that. Egotistical, stubborn, arrogant, yes. And of course, the Seed model has been applied to some very strange rehab groups.
I am still in Cleveland, believe it or not!
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John was continued to be a great friend to many.
He was a loving husband and father of four. He is greatly missed by everyone. John made a touch many peoples lives more than he ever knew. The time we shared together are now cherished memories that will never be forgotten. John loved people. He loved to talk, laugh, and sing.
He loved his family, mom, dad, Dick, Bob, Jan, and Mary so much. His son John is now 23, working and going to school. His oldest daughter Jacklyn is now 19 is going to nursing school like her mom did and is working as an aide in a hospital in Cleveland. Audrey, his third child is 12 and is a honor student in middle school. The youngest is Mallory, who is 9 years old and in the fifth grade and is also on the honor roll. John was a good father and his children a good foundation that they will carry with them throughout their lives. We will miss him. How can you not?
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I remember John....it took me awhile reading the thread..........another from the cleveland seed was Jack Coleman...died in the early 80's I think. RIP Jack............Karen
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[John Grimm]
On 2006-04-18 22:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"John was continued to be a great friend to many.
He was a loving husband and father of four. He is greatly missed by everyone. John made a touch many peoples lives more than he ever knew. The time we shared together are now cherished memories that will never be forgotten. John loved people. He loved to talk, laugh, and sing.
He loved his family, mom, dad, Dick, Bob, Jan, and Mary so much. His son John is now 23, working and going to school. His oldest daughter Jacklyn is now 19 is going to nursing school like her mom did and is working as an aide in a hospital in Cleveland. Audrey, his third child is 12 and is a honor student in middle school. The youngest is Mallory, who is 9 years old and in the fifth grade and is also on the honor roll. John was a good father and his children a good foundation that they will carry with them throughout their lives. We will miss him. How can you not?
"
[/quote]
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cleveland
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May they all found peace in their lives before passing. They were all great people in my eyes and I miss them dearly, Peggy Simpson, Scott Pickard, Dan Titus.
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Scott Pickard? One of my oldcomers. What happened to him? What about Scott Simpson - Peggy's brother?
w
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& What happened to Dan Titus as well.
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His name was Scott Pickard, not Scott Simpson, he married Peggy Simpson in the 80s. Scott, I think was from Westlake Ohio. Peggy was originally from Chillicothe Ohio.
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Hopefully this thread is here to reflect on each and every one of these human being in a positive way not just for gossip. Sharing the memories we hold with each other is a gift. Many of these people have touched our life one way or another. Some of these people have touched my life in a positive way. They may have been a friend, son, daughter, brother, sister, mother or father. They all had a heart like you and me with struggles and triumphs in their lives like everyone else. They have crossed our path in life for one reason or another. May they all rest in peace.
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I had a good friend as a kid who NEVER went in a program, and is dead now. We kinda parted ways just before I went into a program, age 16. While in the program, my folks saw that she was arrested for B & E, and went to talk to her mom about maybe considering the program for her. Her mom totally avoided the subject.
5 years later, I picked up the paper to see her mugshot and that she had been stabbed to death and left on the side of a road. Into drugs, prostitution, all kinds of shit. She was 22.
People die.
I went through the program, graduated, went to college, married, had children and have a pretty cool life overall.
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On 2006-04-23 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I had a good friend as a kid who NEVER went in a program, and is dead now. We kinda parted ways just before I went into a program, age 16. While in the program, my folks saw that she was arrested for B & E, and went to talk to her mom about maybe considering the program for her. Her mom totally avoided the subject.
5 years later, I picked up the paper to see her mugshot and that she had been stabbed to death and left on the side of a road. Into drugs, prostitution, all kinds of shit. She was 22.
People die.
I went through the program, graduated, went to college, married, had children and have a pretty cool life overall."
I understand the concept of recividism and the fact that programs have no effect on that, anecdotes are by definition abberations, and you could be lying anyway. And my life is WAY cooler than yours :lol:
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And your point?
This thread was started to honor our friends who we knew in the Seed that died, not for any other reason.
Yes people die. The real question is, do you know any who went to the Seed, and would you like to pay your respects here?
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Pay respect is right. What is the purpose of your post. Some people never grow up. Cheer to the ones who have. Honor to the ones have passed.
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I remember Peggy.........She was sooo funny I think she stayed at my house karen k
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I hope when I die of old age (or sharkbite) that noone attibutes it to my having been on the seed program 33+ years ago. :lol:
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Regardless if these people were from the seed, many of them meant something to each and every one of us at one time or another. Some of these people had great inpacts in our lives and meant more to us then seedlings. There is life beyond the seed.
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Peggy was my oldcomer and my maid-of-honor. She was a great friend.
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Tell her Karen Kelley says hello....I hope she remmebers me Cleve eastsider!!! I would love to know what Ellen W is up to? She and Rhea came to my high school graduation....last I saw of them.
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Woops I I thought Peggy was still alive I just reread the thread...I am still a blonde....Karen
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On 2005-10-09 08:27:00, JaLong wrote:
Dan Hubble died 1976 from self-inflicted gunshot to head. 1976
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Man, the weirdest thing just happened. I didn't remember Dan until just now, and then his smiling face on his tall and lanky frame just flashed into my brain.
RIP Dan.