Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: FueLaw on December 08, 2002, 09:12:00 PM

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: FueLaw on December 08, 2002, 09:12:00 PM

I was never in Straight I was in the Seed, which as most of you know existed before Straight. I read your board every now and then but never post here. I am an attorney and practice in Miami. Please accept some free legal advice. Don't submit an Affidavit.



To begin with they are legally worthless. This is because the confrontation clause, in the United States Constitution, allows the other side to confront their accuser. This is true in civil or criminal court. In order for an affidavit to be admissible in a legal proceeding you would have to appear for a deposition or at trial and let the other side cross examine you as to the contents of the affidavit. If you don't want to be a witness don't submit an affidavit.



Furthermore, if you come forward as a witness this opens you up for impeachment. In other words the Semblers or anybody can investigate and whatever mud they dig up can be used against you in court. This is true whether you are a party or a witness. If you don't want all your personal business put in to a public record don't sign an affidavit.



In addition you need to keep in mind that the Statute of Limitations is long gone for any kind of legal recourse. This is true for any civil or criminal recourse. Nothing bad is legally going to happen to any of the scumbags who were administrators at Straight.



This brings me to my point.  Some of you are being duped. The people who are encouraging you to sign the affidavits have some kind of alterior motive for do so. I am not a mind reader so I won't speculate as to their true motives. However, I am a lawyer and I know the reasons given to you are bs because the affidavits can't be used in a legal setting.  



You also need to keep in mind that once you hand over these affidavits you have no control over who views them and for what use they will be put to. They can be used for any purpose to advance others agenda. Maybe you agree in full or in part with their agenda maybe you don't. But once you give them the affidavits God only knows where they will wind up or what they will be used for.



As I stated in the beggining of this post I have been to a similar program as most of you. I spent 13 1/2 months in the Seed.  I understand your pain and what you went through. We all have fantasies or ideas that somehow, someday we will get even with our tormentors. Unfortunately , in terms of legal recourse, the time has past. Please don't allow yourself to be used by others to further their own agendas. Don't be swayed by their rhetoric or scare tactics or even their promises of legal grandeur.



I wish all you the best and I hope this message is well taken.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-08 18:15 ]

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 08, 2002, 11:10:00 PM

Well, a sane and believable post on this subject.  I don't know what is going on here, but upon my attorneys advice, which also seemed quite close to our Miami friend's, I shall make myself available as a witness.  If needed, desirable, and helpful to a known cause, I shall be Miller Newton and friends worst nightmare of a witness.  Bring on the deposition.  But lets do it right.
Bill

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2002, 11:22:00 PM

I don't think I ever considered, down to the nitty, gritty detail, exactly how far the harassment could go. Just that, on principal, I don't take lightly envoking force of law. So I haven't filed and I may never do so. I haven't shut the door on it for one reason. Please, sir, if I could have just a little more of that free advice?

It's my understanding that affidavits on file and having been confronted, witnesses deposed, etc., could be used for reference in current or future suits. Is that so? Or is that at least conceivable? If a kid comes forward and sues a program this year, it's his word against theirs, and usually they win. But if there are a couple of dozen or a couple of hundred affidavits aledging similar claims AND the witnesses are willing to testify, wouldn't that help the kid's case?

Like I said, I like my privacy and security. I have kids. I want them to go out, run, play, have fun and grow up without having to worry about the kinds of things these assholes are likely to do by way of falacious suits and slander and so forth. However, if I thought it might help a kid (or 2 or dozen) get a jump on life by whoopin' some ass on the way out instead of slinking off to lick their wounds for a few decades, I'd have to weigh the costs again.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: METALGOD8 on December 09, 2002, 01:56:00 AM

:smokin:

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: FueLaw on December 09, 2002, 07:10:00 AM

First of all to the Tampa Survivor, good luck and God bless if you decide to move forward.



To anonymouys,(with the bag), the problem from a legal stand point is that the Statute of Limitations is 4 years in these kind of matters. In terms of Straight, they are shut down, defunct for years, there is no one left to sue.



With respect to the Straight clone programs , some of those kids still have a chance of getting legal recourse.  However, it is very unlikely that anything having to do with the original Straight could be used at trial, civil or criminal. This is because it is to remote in time and a lawsuit or criminal prosecution has to stand on it's own merits. In other words you would have to prove violations of the law by the new program.



MetalGod your post is pure fantasy. Never happen in the real world.



Also keep in mind if you sue someone and your lawsuit is deemed to be frivoulous or without merit then you could wind up being counter sued or have legal fees assesed against you. Filing a lawsuit years after the Statute of limitations has expired would be considered frivolous.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-09 04:11 ]

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Shelby on December 09, 2002, 08:03:00 AM

I'll be sending my paperwork shortly. And yes, I am willing to testify. I swore I'd never return to FL, but I'd walk there for that.   ::armed::

Shelby

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2002, 08:56:00 AM

I don't want to stop any one from doing what ever they want,If you decide to move forward God bless you. I woudl also love to see these people fry for what they have done. however there are some things to keep in mind during these dangerous time in which we live, and you should not be disillusioned about the seriousness of the repercussions from you actions.

On 2002-12-08 22:56:00, METALGOD8 wrote: " :eek:   "Objection! Your Honor..< snip >....Dreams do come true sometimes..."

Yes dreams come true but..............
FBI: Open the door motherfucker before we break this god damn thing down.



Looking out the window sees several heavily armed well dressed geeks from our USG standing there.



FBI: Under the "PATRIOT ACT" of the US of A we have determined that you are a terrorist.....



Moments later they are in, ransacking the house taking what ever documents that they desire. all the while question the entire family, even accusing the children of being terrorists. After all why would you be starting/participating this smear campaign?
.........................sometimes they turn to Nightmares :exclaim:



At this time, NO citizen, No Lawyer, No Judge or politician is safe from any action from the FBI,CIA,NSA or the SS.



If you don't beleive me, ::deal:: read  the PATRIOT ACT.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: ClayL on December 09, 2002, 09:24:00 AM

"If you don't beleive me, ::deal:: read the PATRIOT ACT. "

Read the thing?! How many pages is that thing? I seriously wonder if ANYONE read the damn thing!

CL

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Antigen on December 09, 2002, 11:59:00 AM

Someone's read it
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2002/ ... .1126.html (http://www.registerguard.com/news/2002/11/26/1a.patriotact.1126.html)

In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong

--John Kenneth Galbraith

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2002, 12:53:00 PM

So I set out reading The Patriot Act just for kicks and giggles.....

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.  (a) Domestic Terrorism Defined.--Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--  (1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking ``by assassination  or kidnapping'' and inserting ``by mass destruction,  assassination, or kidnapping'';  (2) in paragraph (3), by striking ``and'';  (3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and  inserting ``; and''; and  (4) by adding at the end the following:  ``(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--  ``(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are  a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or  of any State;  ``(B) appear to be intended--  ``(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian  population;  ``(ii) to influence the policy of a government  by intimidation or coercion; or  ``(iii) to affect the conduct of a government  by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;  and  ``(C) occur primarily within the territorial  jurisdiction of the United States.''.  (b) Conforming Amendment.--Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:  ``(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or  international terrorism as defined in section 2331;''.

WEll.....  `(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;'



So, one could say that a "frivilous lawsiut" could be constued as "intimidation or coercion"



In answer to the question, the document is 115pgs long, and if you think that is big, you should try the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate) which is twice as long. As a matter of fact, I haven't had to chop wood since I prointed it out.



But honestly, I can't beleive that any senator or congressan has read any of the shit (aka leglisation) that they pass. Which is why the country is in such a sad situation. ::noway::



But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. :em:


_________________

Some Days It's Just Not Worth
Chewing Through The Leather Straps


[ This Message was edited by: SysAdmin on 2002-12-09 09:56 ]

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2002, 01:03:00 PM

I like  Aaron McGruder's take on dreams:

http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2002/12/09/ (http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2002/12/09/)

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2002, 08:43:00 PM

Don't blame the players, blame the game !

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 16, 2002, 11:21:00 PM

Er...
Just a question for your lawyer friend...
is there a difference in limitations between what could be sued on in a CIVIL case and what could be prosecuted under a) Federal Criminal Law and b) State Criminal Law?

Maybe someone in the ACLU has an opinion on that.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: ClayL on December 17, 2002, 09:30:00 AM

I the State of SC there is no statute of limitations. The federal government also has no statute of limitations. You can ask that woman who is just now started her sentence for a crime back in the 60's. One caveat, I think she was part of the Simeanese Liberation Army and the issue was they killed a policeman.

To the best of my understanding, in SC at least, limitations apply only for filing suits in civil court.

CL

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: FueLaw on December 23, 2002, 08:26:00 PM

First of all there are Statute of limitations on most crimes. Even in South Carolina. The case Clay is refering to does not apply. If someone is indicted for a crime, and then flees, the statute of limitations still applies because it has been meet. Therefore if someone bombs a building today, gets charged in the requisite time period, and manages to elude law enforcement for 10 years, they gain no legal benefit. Crimes such as murder have no statute of limitations. Almost all other crimes do.



Yes there is a difference in the statute of limitations in civil, as opposed to criminal court. In most situations it is 3-5 years, this would apply is state and federal court.



Let me be perfectly clear, the STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS HAS EXPIRED FOR ANY CIVIL RECOURSE AGAINST FOLKS LIKE THE SEMBLERS. Sorry to burst any baloons but is true. The people posting about all this dynamite information they have and how they are going to get even with the Semblers et al after 20 years are completely full of crap. Forget about what the so called paralegal is telling you because nothing can be done in a legal sense.



Keep in mind I am not trying to hurt anyone I am just trying to point out what the truth is in terms of your legal recourse or lack thereof.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-23 17:28 ]

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 24, 2002, 01:59:00 AM

It seems like someone is really trying to scare y'all.  Different states have different statutes of limitations.  And the Feds, different again.  I suggested earlier that you contact ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union.  They've recently done some Amicus brief work inrelation to the anti-terrorist legislation.  I'm sure they would LOVE to get their teeth into something challenging the Semblers.  

Can I suggest someone contact Irwin Schwartz of Seattle, for a start.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Serpico on December 24, 2002, 09:52:00 AM

We have contacted those mentioned above. There is no statue of limitations on tax fraud, racketeering, and other crimes and or civil matters. Yes, there are statue of limitations on some civil matters from twenty years ago but that statue has not run out on some recent evidence.
I would encourage the attorney not to prejudge the evidence before he knows what we have. Most attorneys would not make this mistake. Most attorneys would want to review the evidence before making the claim that there is no case.


There is also case precedence for abused individuals bringing cases to court years later as the precedence set is one that states that the statue of limitations does not begin until the discovery of abuse or claimant is aware of their legal recourse. Example: Twenty years ago maybe I felt I could sue straight but lets say now I find out (EXAMPLE ONLY) that the state was involved which makes them accessories to the abuse therefore, it would not be till now that I discovered the accessory part and therefore, the statue of limitations would not begin until that discovery. No doubt a tough case to win but a case none the less.

My question is why would a "professional" attorney be so willing to knock down everything here publicly as opposed to offering to review all that we have and offer to help us out.

That?s my question? A real attorney would want to review the evidence before making a public statement on the issue.

This is just my opinion.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 24, 2002, 10:43:00 AM

My question is why would a "professional" attorney be so willing to knock down everything here publicly as opposed to offering to review all that we have and offer to help us out. That?s my question? A real attorney would want to review the evidence before making a public statement on the issue. This is just my opinion. "

Exactly my point.  I am a "real" attorney in Canada.    As I said, someone is trying to discourage you, and his so-called "advice" has a smell to it.  Obviously, I can't help you out because I'm in Canada.   But I can suggest you contact ACLU lawyers who I'm sure, once given the scenario could follow up

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2002, 12:50:00 PM

I can not vouch for the motives for the person who made the post, and some of what he wrote was subjective, however, the information in the  quote below is accurate.

I don't see where the problem is in people fully understanding the personal implications and possible responsibilities when signing and sending an affidavit before doing so. After all I don't think that there is anyone here that goes out and does anything without understanding what they are doing or the ramifications that may be involved, or at least, I hope so.

On 2002-12-08 18:12:00, FueLaw wrote: the United States Constitution, allows the other side to confront their accuser. This is true in civil or criminal court. In order for an affidavit to be admissible in a legal proceeding you would have to appear for a deposition or at trial and let the other side cross examine you as to the contents of the affidavit.   __________ Furthermore, if you come forward as a witness this opens you up for impeachment. In other words the Semblers or anybody can investigate and whatever mud they dig up can be used against you in court. This is true whether you are a party or a witness. If you don't want all your personal business put in to a public record _____ You also need to keep in mind that once you hand over these affidavits you have no control over who views them and for what use they will be put to.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2002, 04:47:00 PM

From Wes' site:
"In Feb 82 Straight-Atlanta settled with 3 kids represented by the ACLU who claimed they were suffering "inhumane treatment". ( St Petersburg Times, 2-5-82)

3/19/85
"Susan W. Milan AKA Susan White Straight-Atlanta
 Ms. Milan represented by ACLU. Alleged medical malpractice, false imprisonment, fraud, assault. ACLU contact President Bruce Morris US District Court. awarded $37K for peanut butter diets."

" in 1973 at the St Pete Seed with Roger Young, then to Jeff Bourgholtzer whose dad became a founding board member of Straight (Leonard Lubin, ACLU represented both boys)"

If you read through http://thestraights.com/legal/matrix-civil-criminal.htm (http://thestraights.com/legal/matrix-civil-criminal.htm) it seems to me there's plenty of culpability by St. Pete, Pinellas and St of Florida. Whether or not we can get any accountability out of them (finally, forchristsake!!) is another question.


Well, it can't hurt to contact the ACLU. Note that they've been involved before, they have something on file and yet the beat goes on (ya-da-da-da-dum-da-da). Times change. In the `80's, anything done in the name of the drug war was okee dokee by most people. That's changed somewhat. Maybe enough to get some serious attention for our cause?

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2002, 07:48:00 PM

Good Luck,contacting the ACLU.  Try getting past the "recorded" message.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Serpico on December 25, 2002, 04:10:00 PM

could you contact me via email
[email protected]

Thanks
Serp

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: FueLaw on December 26, 2002, 09:59:00 PM

The reason I don't need to review the so called evidence you purport to have is because even on the off chance it did exist it would be legally irrelevant. Why would I want to review a pile of legal garbage that would never be admissible in court ? Whats the point ?

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 26, 2002, 10:08:00 PM

Getting increasingly desperate to shut them up are we?

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: FueLaw on December 26, 2002, 10:19:00 PM

Desperate for what ? I hate people like Art Barker, the Semblers and anybody like them. I wish that they would have been brought to justice years ago. It would have prevented alot of human suffering. The point is that the time to bring these people to justice has come and gone.



This is a free country and you can believe or disbelieve anything you want. If you believe that these people have 15-20 year old corporate tax returns and can somehow prove that they are fraudulent, then go ahead and believe it.

[ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-26 19:20 ]

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Dragnet on December 26, 2002, 11:12:00 PM

Excellent advice, for once.

On 2002-12-26 19:19:00, FueLaw wrote: then go ahead and believe it. [ This Message was edited by: fuelaw on 2002-12-26 19:20 ]"

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Serpico on December 27, 2002, 08:56:00 AM

Once again Fuelaw your wrong.Go look at the website and review the tax report under documents section for yourself. It's all their. Told you we had the documents.

But then you knew that , which is why your so scared.

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2003, 05:50:00 PM

Tell that to Lulu Corter lawyer dude!

Title: Free Legal Advice !!! Don't do the Affidavits
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2003, 05:53:00 PM

Tell it to MEDVIN & ELBERG! Good thing some lawyers have hope!