Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 05:51:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 09:37:35 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 06, 2007, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: ""TLC""
This has been all over the news about the kid going on this shooting rampage in Nebraska. There was a small mention from a reporter that said something to the effect that either the parents or the courts had sent him to a school in Missouri for treatment. Could that be Thayer Learning Center?
If he didnt it wouldnt take a genius to know he needed some type of help and didnt get it.
Prime example of not just letting every kid just grow out of their problems, ignore the warning signs and work things out on their own.
The kid should have gotten some type of help.
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 09:58:22 PM
Kid gets sent to "therapeutic school" in Missouri. Kid gets out. Kid kills a lot of people.
Occam's Razor speaking: He got the "help" he didn't need, and it opened his heart to omnicidal rage.
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 10:02:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
it opened his heart to omnicidal rage.
Sometimes reading this forum opens my heart to that, too. :)
Post by: TheWho on December 06, 2007, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Fuck off, Who.
Kid gets sent to "therapeutic school" in Missouri. Kid gets out. Kid kills a lot of people.
Occam's Razor speaking: He got the "help" he didn't need, and it opened his heart to omnicidal rage.
So tens of thousands of kids benefit from Therapeutic schools every year and one kid shoots up a mall and its the schools fault.
Very realistic conclusion.
Post by: TheWho on December 06, 2007, 10:08:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""it opened his heart to omnicidal rage.Sometimes reading this forum opens my heart to that, too. :)
Know what you mean. How can we blame everything on these schools? The kids that shot up Columbine highschool never went to wilderness or a therapeutic school.
How can that be explained? Seems everyone is looking for some thread of a link to make the Therapeutic schools look bad and at the same time ignore all the kids who are benefiting from them.
Very strange argument position with very little evidence.
Post by: TheWho on December 06, 2007, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""it opened his heart to omnicidal rage.Sometimes reading this forum opens my heart to that, too. :)
Know what you mean. How can we blame everything on these schools? The kids that shot up Columbine highschool never went to wilderness or a therapeutic school.
How can that be explained? Seems everyone is looking for some thread of a link to make the Therapeutic schools look bad and at the same time ignore all the kids who are benefiting from them.
Very strange argument position with very little evidence.
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 10:08:37 PM
Let's see how many were helped by taking a glance over at the CEDU people trying to find their fellow victims.. in jail, suicide, in jail, surviving with a maximum of hate for the program and their parents (the ones with this attitude always seem to do the best), in jail for life on three-strikes-you're-out.. Huh. Some help that is.
Post by: TheWho on December 06, 2007, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who, trying to hide yourself by making your grammar a little worse only makes me laugh at you. You're the only person on this board who actually believes that "tens of thousands were helped" crap.
Let's see how many were helped by taking a glance over at the CEDU people trying to find their fellow victims.. in jail, suicide, in jail, surviving with a maximum of hate for the program and their parents (the ones with this attitude always seem to do the best), in jail for life on three-strikes-you're-out.. Huh. Some help that is.
Have you ever heard of anyone in jail who blames themselves?
Cut us all a break. They screwed their lives up and now they want to blame their parents or the last school they attended or the last girlfriend/boyfriend they dated.
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Who, trying to hide yourself by making your grammar a little worse only makes me laugh at you. You're the only person on this board who actually believes that "tens of thousands were helped" crap.
Let's see how many were helped by taking a glance over at the CEDU people trying to find their fellow victims.. in jail, suicide, in jail, surviving with a maximum of hate for the program and their parents (the ones with this attitude always seem to do the best), in jail for life on three-strikes-you're-out.. Huh. Some help that is.
Have you ever heard of anyone in jail who blames themselves?
Cut us all a break. They screwed their lives up and now they want to blame their parents or the last school they attended or the last girlfriend/boyfriend they dated.
Have you ever heard of an abusive program that blames itself, and takes responsibility for the damages it causes? Why don't you be the first, who. Blame yourself for the damage you've caused, and the crimes that you've committed
Oh, yeah. If you're trying to distract parents from the consequences of torturing kids with pseudo therapy, you’re not doing a good job.
In your cult brain your program can save kids, but not harm them, and shutting some kid up in a box for 5 years has no effect on the kid that can be blamed on the abuser…but not everyone is evil and crazy.
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2007, 10:30:08 PM
"If the kid survives without getting into trouble, he was clearly helped by the program, because without that, he would surely be dead or in jail! Oh wait, he IS dead or in jail? Then it was his own fault!"
Post by: Deborah on December 06, 2007, 11:48:21 PM
11:06 PM EST, December 6, 2007
OMAHA, Neb. - The young man who killed eight people and committed suicide in a shooting rampage at a department store spent four years in a series of treatment centers, group homes and foster care after threatening to kill his stepmother in 2002.
Finally, in August 2006, social workers, the courts and his father all agreed: It was time for Robert Hawkins to be released -- nine months before he turned 19 and would have been required to leave anyway.
The group homes and treatment centers were for youths with substance abuse, mental or behavioral problems.
On Thursday, while some of those who knew Hawkins called the massacre Wednesday at a busy Omaha mall unexpected, not everyone was surprised.
"He should have gotten help, but I think he needed someone to help him and needed someone to be there when in the past he's said he wanted to kill himself," said Karissa Fox, who said she knew Hawkins through a friend. "Someone should have listened to him."
Todd Landry, state director of children and family services, said court records do not show precisely why Hawkins was released. But he said that if Hawkins should not have been set free, someone would have raised a red flag.
"It is my opinion, it was not a failure of the system to provide appropriate services," Landry said. "If that was an issue, any of the participants in the case would have brought that forward."
After reviewing surveillance tape, a suicide note and Hawkins' last conversations with those close to him, police said they don't know -- and may never know -- exactly why Hawkins went to the Von Maur store at Westroads Mall and shot more than a dozen people.
But he clearly planned ahead, walking through the store, exiting, then returning a few minutes later with a gun concealed in a balled-up sweat shirt he was carrying, authorities said.
Debora Maruca-Kovac, a woman who with her husband took Hawkins into their home because he had no other place to live, told the Omaha World-Herald that the night before the shooting, Hawkins and her sons showed her a semiautomatic rifle. She said she thought the gun looked too old to work.
Police believe Hawkins was using that AK-47 when he stormed off a third-floor elevator at the store and started shooting.
Police said they have found no connections between the 19-year-old and the six employees and two shoppers he killed.
"The shooting victims were randomly selected," as was the location of the shooting, Omaha Police Chief Thomas Warren said.
Acquaintances said that Hawkins was a drug user and that he had a history of depression. In 2005 and 2006, according to court records, he underwent psychiatric evaluations, the reasons for which Landry would not disclose, citing privacy rules.
In May 2002, he was sent to a treatment center in Waynesville, Mo., after threatening his stepmother. Four months later, a Nebraska court decided Hawkins' problems were serious enough that he should be under state supervision and made him a ward of the state.
He went through a series of institutions in Nebraska as he progressed through the system: months at a treatment center and group home in Omaha in 2003; time in a foster care program and treatment center in 2004 and 2005; then a felony drug-possession charge later in 2005. Landry said the court records do not identify the drug.
The drug charge was eventually dropped, but he was jailed in 2006 for not performing community service as required.
On Aug. 21, 2006, he was released from state custody.
Under state law, Landry said, wards are released when all sides -- parents, courts, social workers -- agree it is time for them to go. Once Hawkins was set free, he was entirely on his own. He was no longer under state supervision, and was not released into anyone's custody.
Ahh. The exit plan.
"When our role is ended, we try to step out," said Chris Peterson, director of the state Department of Health and Human Services.
About an hour before the shootings, Hawkins called Maruca-Kovac and told her he had written a suicide note, Maruca-Kovac said. In the note, Hawkins wrote that he was "sorry for everything" and would not be a burden on his family anymore. More ominously, he wrote: "Now I'll be famous."
"He had said how much he loved his family and all his friends and how he was sorry he was a burden to everybody and his whole life he was a piece of (expletive) and now he'll be famous," Maruca-Kovac said on CBS' "The Early Show," describing the note. "I was fearful that he was going to try to commit suicide, but I had no idea that he would involve so many other families."
Bellevue police on Thursday arrested a 17-year-old friend of Hawkins who they said threatened to kill a teenage girl. The girl had made remarks about Hawkins that offended his friend, Chief John Stacey said.
The teen was being held in a juvenile detention center on suspicion of making terroristic threats, Stacey said. Police found a rifle and two shotguns at the teen's house, weapons he had access to, the chief said.
The shoppers that Hawkins killed were Gary Scharf, 48, of Lincoln, and John McDonald, 65, of Council Bluffs, Iowa. The employees killed were Angie Schuster, 36; Maggie Webb, 24; Janet Jorgensen, 66; Diane Trent, 53; Gary Joy, 56; and Beverly Flynn, 47, all of Omaha.
* __
Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Nate Jenkins in Lincoln, Neb., and Oskar Garcia in Omaha.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 05:57:11 AM
[qoute]For the past eight months, Michael Talmo has tried his best to fix the Piney Ridge Center, a private, 60-bed juvenile psychiatric treatment facility in Missouri, where allegations of patient abuse, rape, kidnapping and riots have worked against his self-described reputation as a fixer.
The townsfolk living near the facility call it a hellhole.
"That's why they sent me there," Talmo explained. "I was only there eight months."
Located within the city limits of Waynesville, problems at Piney Ridge have strained the scant emergency services of the small town.
In September, one of Talmo's youth care workers was charged with kidnapping and raping a female patient,a 17-year-old who ran away with the staffer voluntarily.
The teen suffered from what one Missouri state trooper described as extreme post-traumatic stress disorder.
Waynesville Police Chief Don McCulloch said "the employee got intimate with one of the patients. It was all voluntarily. She was of age. They're emancipated at 17 in Missouri."
Last month, in the middle of fallout from the Missouri kidnapping case, Talmo was recruited by Vince Meconi, secretary of the Delaware Department of Health and Social Services, to replace Susan Watson Robinson as director of the Delaware Psychiatric Center.
Talmo takes over the Delaware facility in two weeks, armed with assurances from Meconi that he will have the authority and the support needed to make changes.
Meconi said he had "some awareness" there were problems at the Missouri facility and that he knew about the kidnapping and rape charges when he recruited Talmo.
"I heard about that," Meconi said.
The Piney Ridge staffer has pleaded not guilty.
Talmo says he regrets leaving his work in Missouri unfinished. Those who live in Waynesville, a town of 4,000, have grown accustomed to a constant stream of administrators at Piney Ridge.
The Waynesville police chief has never met Talmo, or most of the previous administrators. McCulloch said he and his 20 officers respond to Piney Ridge most often when children run away.
"Most of them are misdirected kids," he said. "Most of them are not from Missouri."
Six police agencies responded to Piney Ridge in August 2006 after staff reported a riot.
Waynesville Fire Chief Doug Yurecko and his firefighters were called to help ventilate the buildings after police used pepper spray to quell what turned out to be a disturbance involving a handful of youth.
"We've has some minor fires there, when a juvenile set a fire, and we've been involved with other fires," Yurecko said of his 25 volunteer firefighters. "The staff come and go. I don't know what their pay scale is, but if I go there one month, the next month I won't see the same faces."
Compared to a state hospital, Piney Ridge isn't very big, Yurecko said.
With 60 beds, Piney Ridge is one-fourth the size of the Delaware Psychiatric Center, with its average daily census of 245 patients. In addition, the juvenile population suffers from emotional, psychological and behavioral problems that are minor when compared to the serious psychological illnesses among the patients at DPC.
In their testimony before the various groups investigating DPC, Meconi and his management team, which now includes Talmo, have stressed the severity of illnesses at DPC, which include schizophrenia, personality disorders, dementia and behavioral concerns such as pica, the eating of materials that are not food products, such as batteries and toilet paper.
Assurances
The last time Talmo ran the Delaware Psychiatric Center, micromanaging by senior officials and an inflexible system prevented him from making changes he felt were necessary to improve the facility.
This time, Meconi has assured him he'll be able to make his own decisions without interference.
"That was part of our discussion when the secretary called me -- what's it going to be like, and do I have the autonomy to get to say what's wrong," Talmo told The News Journal. "I got assurances that I would get his full support. That was the deciding factor."
Talmo, who has supervised adult and juvenile psychiatric facilities in nearly a dozen states, said he's garnered a reputation as a fixer.
"Mike has a good track record of improving facilities," Meconi said. "He improved the facility when he was here previously, and I expect him to do it now."
This is the second time Talmo has replaced Robinson at Delaware's state hospital.
The 58-year-old Delaware native first served as DPC director from late 2001 through the end of 2004 and was credited with bringing DPC back from the brink of decertification.
When Talmo was brought in in 2001, Robinson, then the deputy of Renata Henry, who directs the Division of Substance Abuse and Mental Health, had been serving as acting DPC director for four months. Robinson took over when former director Wesley Perkins resigned after allegations of short staffing prompted federal intervention.
One of the reasons Talmo left in 2004 was because of interference from Henry, some current staffers said.
Talmo, who will again report directly to Henry when he starts work, said it wasn't Henry so much as an inflexible system that caused him to leave.
"It comes with the territory," he said. "It's part of working with a big system -- lots of competing voices. I wouldn't put it all on Renata. I would put it on working in a state system."
When Talmo walks in the door, he'll be making $130,000 a year -- about $40,000 more than Robinson made while in charge of the facility. After resigning as director, Robinson became deputy director of the facility, a well-protected merit position.
"When she was Renata's assistant, I thought she was pretty sharp," Talmo said of his future deputy. "What she did at the facility, I really don't know."
Meconi said he plans to resume weekly meetings with the DPC director, something he did not do when Robinson ran DPC.
"Mike is going to be part of a team," Meconi explained. "He is in a chain of command. He is not going to be micromanaged."
Talmo, Meconi said, will report directly to Henry, adding, "but I expect everyone to work collaboratively."
Henry did not respond to calls or e-mails seeking comment.
Meconi's spokesman, Jay Lynch said in an e-mail, "In response to your request to speak with Ms. Henry I offer the following statement: We look forward to having Mr. Talmo join the leadership team of the Division of Substance Abuse and Mental Health. His extensive experience in psychiatric hospital management will be an asset to the hospital, the Division and the community."
Proposed changes
Talmo promised to consult with the line staff at DPC once he returns.
"I need to be out and about," he said. "I'll talk to everybody. I plan to come in at night and weekends. I want to see what's happening since I was there last, see how bad it is. If it is bad, I want to make that assessment myself."
He's inheriting a hospital where the staff is polarized into cliques. Some of these groups have submitted petitions calling for unpopular staffers to be removed.
"You'll have more of these cliques when a facility is under fire," he said. "People need to talk to each other."
As part of its ongoing investigation into conditions of care at DPC, The News Journal has documented allegations of patient abuse and sexual assault that have led to felony assault and rape charges against two former DPC attendants. More than six federal and state agencies are conducting separate investigations into patient care and supervision at the state hospital.
Talmo said he's got a one-strike-and-you're-out policy regarding patient abuse.
"I don't tolerate patient abuse," he said. "To have someone discharged, there's a process. You've got to go through the process, but they'll not work in the building as long as I'm there."
Since the newspaper began investigating DPC, Meconi, Henry and Robinson have made few public comments, except when testifying before the various groups investigating the facility.
Talmo promised to be available when questions of patient abuse or other incidents arise.
"It's a public facility," he said. "The public has a right to know."
He said no one has ordered him not to talk to the public.
"I haven't been yet, and hopefully I won't be," he said.
[/quote]
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 11:27:50 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't you love the shifting around of personal responsibility?
"If the kid survives without getting into trouble, he was clearly helped by the program, because without that, he would surely be dead or in jail! Oh wait, he IS dead or in jail? Then it was his own fault!"
It goes on and on here at fornits, you would be amazed at how responsibility is shifted around here on a daily basis. (1,500 kids commit suicide every year who have never seen a program). You take some “at-riskâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 11:29:59 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Who, trying to hide yourself by making your grammar a little worse only makes me laugh at you. You're the only person on this board who actually believes that "tens of thousands were helped" crap.
Let's see how many were helped by taking a glance over at the CEDU people trying to find their fellow victims.. in jail, suicide, in jail, surviving with a maximum of hate for the program and their parents (the ones with this attitude always seem to do the best), in jail for life on three-strikes-you're-out.. Huh. Some help that is.
Have you ever heard of anyone in jail who blames themselves?
Cut us all a break. They screwed their lives up and now they want to blame their parents or the last school they attended or the last girlfriend/boyfriend they dated.
Have you ever heard of an abusive program that blames itself, and takes responsibility for the damages it causes? Why don't you be the first, who. Blame yourself for the damage you've caused, and the crimes that you've committed
Oh, yeah. If you're trying to distract parents from the consequences of torturing kids with pseudo therapy, you’re not doing a good job.
In your cult brain your program can save kids, but not harm them, and shutting some kid up in a box for 5 years has no effect on the kid that can be blamed on the abuser…but not everyone is evil and crazy.
But until we can “determine rootâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What about 29,998 kids who are helped each year?
Cite your source please. There have been virtually zero randomized, long term, clinical research done. Until you can back up your assertion with some actual evidence, please refrain from making such claims.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 11:37:31 AM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 11:42:30 AM
"Was he being bullied at school"? Shit, did he even go to school? They let him out at the age of 18, I don't think anyone would want to go back to high school at that point...
Bottom fucking line: If any of the hellholes in which he spent four fucking years of his life were in any way able to diagnose and treat real mental illness, they would have done so.
There is therapy for this kind of thing, antipsychotics and real cognitive therapy, but apparently they don't bother with things like that at these "private treatment centers". Instead they just hurt him and threw him out the door a timebomb.
Surprise, surprise.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 11:43:59 AM
PROTIP: There were roughly 40 dead kids during the time he pretends to be able to cite.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 11:54:05 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
HEY LOOK! It's Who's bullshit statistics again! And this time he doesn't want to put his name on them!
PROTIP: There were roughly 40 dead kids during the time he pretends to be able to cite.
I keep hearing people say that, but why is everyone afraid to produce the names that he omitted?
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""HEY LOOK! It's Who's bullshit statistics again! And this time he doesn't want to put his name on them!
PROTIP: There were roughly 40 dead kids during the time he pretends to be able to cite.
I keep hearing people say that, but why is everyone afraid to produce the names that he omitted?
Why doesn't he post the studies and research that proves his bogus claim that these places help anyone?
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 12:06:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""HEY LOOK! It's Who's bullshit statistics again! And this time he doesn't want to put his name on them!
PROTIP: There were roughly 40 dead kids during the time he pretends to be able to cite.
I keep hearing people say that, but why is everyone afraid to produce the names that he omitted?
I think it is because his numbers are right but many are not happy about it so they say there are more that he missed to try to discredit him.
He has been posting them for over a year now and no one has been able to disprove any of the years he has covered.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think it is because his numbers are right but many are not happy about it so they say there are more that he missed to try to discredit him.
He has been posting them for over a year now and no one has been able to disprove any of the years he has covered.
His numbers are bullshit. He changes the parameters, moves the goalposts, twists what others say and in general just derails threads and deflects attention away from the real issues.
The burden of proof falls upon Who to back up his ridiculous claims that programs help anyone. He's claiming success, we're saying prove it. He can't.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 12:15:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think it is because his numbers are right but many are not happy about it so they say there are more that he missed to try to discredit him.
He has been posting them for over a year now and no one has been able to disprove any of the years he has covered.
Why has he suddenly gone anon?
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 12:18:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""I think it is because his numbers are right but many are not happy about it so they say there are more that he missed to try to discredit him.
He has been posting them for over a year now and no one has been able to disprove any of the years he has covered.
His numbers are bullshit. He changes the parameters, moves the goalposts, twists what others say and in general just derails threads and deflects attention away from the real issues.
The burden of proof falls upon Who to back up his ridiculous claims that programs help anyone. He's claiming success, we're saying prove it. He can't.
so what I am hearing is his numbers are okay as far as deaths, but you dont believe the programs help the 30,000 kids that attend them. I can go along with that.
I couldnt find any children who should be included in his matrix that he already hasnt included. So the numbers seem to be real and accurate. As far as saying that 29,998 kidswho graduate each year are doing okay, I agree we would need more evidence.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 12:33:16 PM
Deb posted a long list of verified kills (and those were just the ones that were verified) but it got buried in endless Whospam of these same complete bullshit numbers over and over again.
Since no one here is obligated to pretend to debate this idiot, we also are not obligated to take his bullshit numbers seriously, nor is anyone else reading this thread.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
so what I am hearing is his numbers are okay as far as deaths, but you dont believe the programs help the 30,000 kids that attend them.
I'm sure that's what you're hearing, however that's not what's being said. But hey. Whatever makes you feel better.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""so what I am hearing is his numbers are okay as far as deaths, but you dont believe the programs help the 30,000 kids that attend them.
I'm sure that's what you're hearing, however that's not what's being said. But hey. Whatever makes you feel better.
Still, no one has produced any names to back up what they say. The matrix has links to the names and the schools to back him up.
I have seen lists of names posted here but they are of kids in juvy schools and boot camps, not TBS's and Wilderness.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Still, no one has produced any names to back up what they say.
They have. You just ignore or dismiss them.
Quote
The matrix has links to the names and the schools to back him up.
It also omits many. He also changes the parameters when it doesn't suit his needs. His "matrix" is beyond stupid.
Quote
I have seen lists of names posted here but they are of kids in juvy schools and boot camps, not TBS's and Wilderness.
Therapeutic Boarding Schools and Residential Treatment Centers and Wilderness Camps and Bootcamps all operate on pretty much the same premise. Isolate the kids, break them down and then rebuild them. Use level systems, forced confessions and peer pressure to get them to conform to the standard groupthink. Rewire their brains in order to get rid of the behaviors that are distressing the parents.
10 - 1 this is Who pumping up his own posts and his "matrix". :roll:
(http://http://www.plasmosis.com/myspace/matrix_red_blue_pill.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 02:27:28 PM
I have to go with thewho's list. At least he backs up his data with links to the NCES and the names and schools of the kids that died.
No one else has provided anything except critisism of his efforts.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
A lot of words, but not one name to add.
If you haven't been paying attention, that ain't my fault.
Quote
I have to go with thewho's list.
I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you!
:rofl:
Quote
At least he backs up his data with links to the NCES and the names and schools of the kids that died.
No, he provides bullshit "statistics" that are meaningless.
Quote
No one else has provided anything except critisism of his efforts.
START PAYING ATTENTION AND MAYBE YOU'LL CATCH ON.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 02:49:42 PM
This needs to be put in neon lights:
START PAYING ATTENTION AND MAYBE YOU'LL CATCH ON.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Cite your source please. There have been virtually zero randomized, long term, clinical research done. Until you can back up your assertion with some actual evidence, please refrain from making such claims.
Look. Even if TheWho's numbers were real (they are not), the data would still be bogus. Measurements that would in any way, shape, or form actually be significantly relevant just aren't being done.
Let's take a case in point: suicide. When are these data points measured? During attendance, or perhaps even within a year of attendance? Think that actually measures the problem?
I attended one of the TBS's on this forum. I tried to commit suicide after I got out, an act that was absolutely directly as a result of my time in program. This was three years after I got out. I just couldn't take it any more.
Had I succeeded, would my statistic even come close to entering Who's lists? Think I am alone in this?
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 02:59:47 PM
I dont see where the error is? If there were names to be added someone would have posted them. If you know of any post them and let the readers see the error.
I looked on some of the other web sites, Ciaca(?) and his list agrees with the names they have also.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 03:12:43 PM
This kid had violent fantasies before being sent away for years. Whether he would have acted on them is unknowable. The fact is that after he did get shipped off to "private residential treatment centers" and was released, he suffered an emotional downturn and started killing people.
If they couldn't stop him from being a psychopath then why was he there in the first place? Obviously none of them was capable of finding and addressing any real problems he may have had before going in there, and likely introduced new ones.
Of course this is obvious, which is why we have TheWho getting on anonymously to spam pseudo-numerical bullshit.
It's time to ask the question with an answer he doesn't want posted:
What hellholes did this kid end up in?
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 03:14:14 PM
Quote
Let's take a case in point: suicide. When are these data points measured? During attendance, or perhaps even within a year of attendance? Think that actually measures the problem?
That is a good example. When a child commits suicide there is no way of telling what the cause was unless he left a note. If a child takes his life at a TBS it may be due to something that happened to him/her prior to attending the school, we don’t know. The only thing we do know is where it occurred. So data can be collected as to where the events occur i.e. at a TBS, at wilderness, at a public school, at home etc.
This is what is being measured and looked at, where the events occurred not the individual causes. We would all become millionaires if we could figure out why in every case but we cant.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Seems you have not been paying attention. He is not posting statistics. It is a matrix with raw numbers. Each number is traceble to a name. I looked a few of them up and he is correct. The kids died while in a TBS or wilderness program.
I dont see where the error is? If there were names to be added someone would have posted them. If you know of any post them and let the readers see the error.
I looked on some of the other web sites, Ciaca(?) and his list agrees with the names they have also.
Shut up Who.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 03:32:53 PM
None of it is my opinion...it is what it is, no one can change the facts.
Different subject:
someone stated:
Quote
If they couldn't stop him from being a psychopath then why was he there in the first place? Obviously none of them was capable of finding and addressing any real problems he may have had before going in there, and likely introduced new ones.
No one really knows how successful they will be or predict the outcome of any therapy. The child needed help and it seems the courts were intent on getting him the help he needed. Were they successful? Doesn’t seem so in his case.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 03:45:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Look. Even if TheWho's numbers were real (they are not), the data would still be bogus. Measurements that would in any way, shape, or form actually be significantly relevant just aren't being done.
Point is, The Who, that your raw data is meaningless. It doesn't reflect the effects these places have on kids.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 03:55:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Look. Even if TheWho's numbers were real (they are not), the data would still be bogus. Measurements that would in any way, shape, or form actually be significantly relevant just aren't being done.Point is, The Who, that your raw data is meaningless. It doesn't reflect the effects these places have on kids.
I'll bite...Well, it has meaning, but not for you. You see many parents have kids at-risk who they feel may not live out the year because of their life style. Many here at fornits tell them that the schools will harm their kids and/or are ineffective. This small piece of information shows that the kids will be kept out of harms way while they are attending the TBS or wilderness…. Further pieces may show that they are turned around and placed on a safer path.
I wouldn’t try to read that much into it.
Post by: Ursus on December 07, 2007, 07:50:24 PM
HHS says it did its best to treat Hawkins (http://http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10203459)
BY MARTHA STODDARD AND KARYN SPENCER | WORLD-HERALD BUREAU
(http://http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/medium/120507kchawkins.jpg)
Robert Hawkins
LINCOLN — Nebraska spent more than $265,000 on services to help Robert Hawkins with psychiatric problems and addictions in his four years as a state ward.
Hawkins received care at several residential treatment centers, a group home and an agency-based foster home, children and family services director Todd Landry said Thursday.
"I believe all appropriate services were provided when needed and for as long as needed," he said. "Based on our review, this tragedy was not a failure of the system to provide appropriate quality services for a youth who needed it."
The emotionally troubled high school dropout, responsible for Wednesday's killing spree at Omaha's Westroads Mall, lost his job earlier in the day and lost his girlfriend in the past two weeks, friends said.
"I'm going to be famous now," he wrote in a suicide note before the shooting, in which he killed eight people before shooting himself.
Records from Sarpy and Washington County Courts detail Hawkins' troubled childhood.
Hawkins was a foster child for about four years. Sarpy County Juvenile Court Judge Robert O'Neal handled the case.
Hawkins was in the custody of his father, Ronald, in La Vista, when he became a foster child in 2002. Hawkins' parents divorced when he was 3.
Hawkins had been hospitalized twice for psychiatric problems before being admitted May 18, 2002, to Piney Ridge Center in Waynesville, Mo., for "homicidal threats he made to his stepmother."
He had been diagnosed with an unspecified mood disorder — a term often used when problems have been identified, but a specific diagnosis such as bipolar disorder or depression hasn't been developed.
Hawkins' diagnosis also included attention deficit disorder and oppositional defiant disorder, which is a persistent pattern of defying authority.
Four months later, he was made a state ward because his health insurance would not pay for continued care. The center's staff said he should not be released.
He stayed at the Missouri facility until February 2003. He then moved to a Cooper Village residential treatment center and later a group home.
In 2003, while living at Cooper Village, Hawkins told police that his roommate grabbed his crotch and offered to perform oral sex on him. Another time, the roommate punched him, he said.
The roommate was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault and sexual misconduct but was never charged.
Hawkins later lived with foster mother Marty Glass in her home near the Douglas-Washington County line.
Her son, Ben Glass, 31, remembered Hawkins as an average kid who enjoyed video games. With his curly brown hair and big glasses, Hawkins had kind of a "nerdy" look, Ben Glass said.
"He was a quiet kid," he said.
Hawkins got into legal trouble while in foster care.
Hawkins was charged in Sarpy County Juvenile Court with third-degree assault in connection with an October 2003 fight at Papillion-La Vista High School and with unlawful tobacco use by a minor at the school in September 2004.
He got into trouble several times in Washington County in 2005 when he lived with Glass.
Hawkins was charged in March 2005 with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver. The case was sent to Sarpy County to handle along with the pending foster-care case.
Judge O'Neal ordered Hawkins to abstain from alcohol and drugs; complete chemical dependency and mental health treatment through a day treatment program at Cooper Village; and attend Alcoholics or Narcotics Anonymous once a week.
Hawkins was ticketed Oct. 7, 2005, for disorderly conduct after getting in a fight near Fort Calhoun High School, which he attended while living with Glass. He later was arrested for not paying the $100 fine.
He later was charged with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of minors, ages 12 and 14, on Oct. 24, 2005. Those charges later were dismissed.
Sheriff Mike Robinson said one of the cases involved Hawkins selling marijuana to other teens at Fort Calhoun High School. School personnel notified authorities.
Hawkins returned to his father's home in December 2005 and received services from Addiction and Behavioral Services of Omaha.
Hawkins' mother, Maribel Rodriguez, sought visits with her son in July 2005. She had not had contact with him for 2½ years.
Hawkins attended Papillion-La Vista High School until dropping out in March 2006.
Soon after, the judge ordered him to get his GED and work 20 hours a week. A friend said Hawkins got his GED.
Hawkins remained a state ward based on the drug case, giving Health and Human Services the ability to monitor his progress and provide services.
The court order terminated custody Aug. 21, 2006, three months after his 18th birthday, "as an unsuccessful completion of the conditions and the child is non-amenable to further services of the court."
Landry said that phrase could mean a variety of things, from Hawkins repeatedly testing positive for drugs and alcohol to refusing to complete 50 hours of court-ordered community service.
The decision was based on an agreement between HHS, the treatment provider, the therapist, the court and Hawkins' father, Landry said.
"The most appropriate thing for this youth was the closure of the case," Landry said.
Landry said he could not release information beyond what was contained in public court records.
Landry said department officials will continue looking at the case to see whether they can learn anything useful for the future.
Hawkins, 5-foot-7 and 128 pounds, moved in with his friend Will's family in August 2006, said Will's mother, Debora Maruca.
The boys liked to target- and skeet-shoot at her family's cabin.
The night before the shooting, Hawkins and her sons showed Maruca an AK-47-style rifle. Maruca thought the rifle looked too old to work.
Hawkins had been hopping between the homes of friends when Maruca offered to let him move in with her family in the Quail Creek subdivision in Bellevue.
"He was like a lost pound puppy nobody wanted," she said.
The first few months, Hawkins seemed nervous and withdrawn, sometimes curling into a fetal position.
He was mannerly, expressing appreciation and asking how her day had been.
She thought his life had started to come together.
Hawkins was earning about $800 a month working at a nearby McDonald's and had started to pay rent in an effort to become more responsible.
He had gotten his driver's license in July, and on Nov. 28, he registered a 1995 green Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo.
"I really thought he was doing better," she said. "He had a little spark in his eye."
Then in the past two weeks, he broke up with his girlfriend.
He was ticketed Nov. 24 on suspicion of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and two alcohol charges.
About 1 p.m. Wednesday, an upset Hawkins called Maruca's son, and Maruca got on the line.
Hawkins thanked the family members for everything they had done for him. He said the family wouldn't have to worry about him anymore.
Maruca asked if he had been fired from his job.
He said he had. He said he had been accused of stealing $17 from his till. (McDonald's management has declined to comment.)
They told him, Robbie, it's not that bad. Just come home. It'll be OK, Maruca said.
"He must have felt like everything he touched turned to crap," she said.
World-Herald staff writers Leia Baez, Christopher Burbach, Kevin Cole, John Ferak, Nancy Gaarder, Cindy Gonzalez, Jeffrey Robb, Michaela Saunders and Tom Shaw contributed to this report.
Post by: Ursus on December 07, 2007, 08:05:16 PM
In the end, Hawkins made good on threats (http://http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10202350)
BY KARYN SPENCER | WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER
Mall gunman Robbie Hawkins had threatened to kill people as long as five years ago and as recently as two weeks ago.
The day after he turned 14, Hawkins was sent to a group home after threatening to kill his stepmother, court records show.
Two weeks ago, he threatened to kill a 16-year-old girl and her family after accusing her of stealing things from his car, the girl said today.
"He said, 'I'm going to kill you, I am going to kill your family and I'm going to burn your house down,'" she said.
The girl, a neighbor, shrugged off the threat because Hawkins was known for "shooting his mouth off."
"I never really thought that he would follow through with something like this," she said.
Interviews and court records from Sarpy and Washington County courts detail the troubled childhood of the 19-year-old responsible for Wednesday's killing spree at the Westroads Mall.
Hawkins was a foster child through Sarpy County Juvenile Court for about four years. Judge Robert O'Neal handled the case.
Hawkins was in the custody of his father, Ronald, in LaVista, when he became a foster child in 2002. Hawkins' parents divorced when he was 3.
Hawkins had been hospitalized twice for psychiatric problems before being admitted on May 18, 2002, to Piney Ridge Center in Waynesville, Mo., for "homicidal threats he made to his stepmother."
At the time, he had been diagnosed with an unspecified mood disorder — a term often used when problems have been identified but a specific diagnosis such as bipolar disorder or depression hasn't been developed.
Hawkins' diagnosis also included attention deficit disorder and oppositional defiant disorder, which is a persistent pattern of defying authority.
Four months later, he was made a state ward because his health insurance would not pay to continue his care. The center's staff said he should not be released.
He stayed at the Missouri facility for at least another month before moving to group homes, including several Cooper Village facilities, and at least one foster home in Omaha.
In 2003, while living at Cooper Village, Hawkins told police that his roommate grabbed his crotch and offered to perform oral sex on him. Another time, the roommate punched him several times, he said.
The roommate was arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor assault and sexual misconduct but was never charged.
Hawkins later lived with foster mother Marty Glass in her home near the Douglas-Washington County line.
Her son, Ben Glass, 31, remembered Hawkins as an average kid who enjoyed video games. "He was a quiet kid," Ben Glass said.
While in foster care, Hawkins got into legal trouble.
Hawkins was charged in Sarpy County Juvenile Court with third-degree assault in connection with an October 2003 fight at Papillion-La Vista High School and with unlawful tobacco use by a minor at the school in September 2004.
He was ordered to serve 50 hours of community service.
He got into trouble several times in Washington County in 2005 when he lived with Glass.
Hawkins was charged in March 2005 with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver. The case was sent to Sarpy County to handle along with the pending foster-care case.
Judge O'Neal ordered Hawkins to abstain from alcohol and drugs; complete chemical dependency and mental health treatment through a day treatment program at Cooper Village; and attend Alcoholics or Narcotics Anonymous nce a week.
Hawkins was ticketed Oct. 7, 2005, for disorderly conduct after getting in a fight near the school in Fort Calhoun. He later was arrested for not paying the $100 fine.
He later was charged with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of minors, ages 12 and 14, on Oct. 24, 2005. Those charges later were dismissed.
In March 2006, Hawkins dropped out of Papillion-La Vista High School, Principal Jim Glover said.
Hawkins was disciplined for skipping classes but never showed anger toward the staff or students, Glover said. "He was pretty low-key, laid-back," he said.
Soon after Hawkins dropped out, the judge ordered him to get his GED and work 20 hours a week. A friend said Hawkins got his GED.
Hawkins' mother, Maribel Rodriguez, sought visits with her son in July 2005. She had not had contact with him for 2 1/2 years.
The juvenile court's jurisdiction ended in August 2006.
Earlier this year, Hawkins' father asked for help from neighbor John Hubbard, a captain with the Douglas County Department of Corrections. Ronald Hawkins asked if Hubbard would take the youth on a tour of the jail to help set him straight.
Hubbard said the jail has a policy against such tours.
Just after Hawkins' court cases ended last year, he moved in with his friend Will's family in the Quail Creek subdivision in Bellevue, said Will's mother, Debora Maruca. She said Hawkins had been hopping between friends' homes.
"He was like a lost pound puppy nobody wanted," she said.
The night before the shooting, Hawkins and her sons showed Maruca an AK-47-style rifle. Previous reports from police and Maruca identified the gun as an SKS semiautomatic military rifle.
She didn't think much of it — it looked too old to work. The boys liked to target- and skeet-shoot at her family's cabin.
Hawkins took the weapon to the mall Wednesday afternoon.
"I think, 'Why didn't I do something?" Maruca said. "What could I have done?'"
During his first few months with the family, Hawkins seemed nervous and withdrawn, sometimes curling into a fetal position.
He was mannerly, expressing appreciation and asking how her day had been.
"We were eating like vultures," she said, "and he's saying, 'Please pass this,' and thanking me for every meal.'"
She thought his life had started to come together.
(http://http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/medium/120507kcmcdonalds.jpg)
Hawkins was earning about $800 a month working at this nearby McDonald's.
Hawkins was earning about $800 a month working at a nearby McDonald's restaurant and had started to pay rent.
He had gotten his driver's license in July, and on Nov. 28 he registered a 1995 green Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo.
"I really thought he was doing better," Maruca said. "He had a little spark in his eye."
Then in the past two weeks, Hawkins broke up with his girlfriend.
He was ticketed Nov. 24 in Sarpy County on suspicion of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and two alcohol charges.
About 1 p.m. Wednesday, an upset Hawkins called Maruca's son, and Maruca got on the line.
Hawkins thanked the family members for everything they had done for him. He said the family wouldn't have to worry about him any more.
She asked if he had been fired. He said he had.
He said he had been accused of stealing $17 from his till. McDonald's management has declined to comment about his employment.
They told him, Robbie, it's not that bad. Just come home. It'll be OK, Maruca said.
"He must have felt like everything he touched turned to crap," she said.
After the call, they checked his bedroom and found his note, which said things like, "I'm a piece of shit, but I'm going to be famous now."
They had gotten a call like this from him once before and worried he was going to commit suicide. They didn't think he would hurt anyone else.
Maruca's son Will went looking for Hawkins. Maruca called Hawkins' mother, who picked up the note and took it to the Sarpy County Sheriff's Office.
Maruca, not knowing what else to do, went to work. She is a nurse at the Nebraska Medical Center.
There she heard news reports of the mall shooting.
"I just got this sick feeling," she said. "I thought, 'Oh, my God, I hope this is not Robbie.'"
When Hawkins' mother arrived at the Sheriff's Office, she did not know about the mall shooting that had occurred about 30 minutes earlier, Capt. Rolly Yost said.
Twenty to 40 minutes before the shooting, an ex-girlfriend of Hawkins received a text message from him describing his plan, according to a 16-year-old girl who had been threatened in the past.
"He said that he wanted to die," she said. "'I just want to shoot a whole lot of people at the mall and kill myself.'"
Maruca said she had no idea why Hawkins picked Von Maur.
"They're completely innocent victims," she said of those he shot. "He had no connection."
Wednesday night, authorities searched the homes of Maruca and Hawkins' mother in Bellevue for evidence and possible explanations.
Among the news media trucks and split-level homes in her hilly subdivision, Maruca and a woman hugged and sobbed.
"That was Robbie," she said.
"I can't believe it," they kept telling each other.
"I can't f-ing believe it."
World-Herald staff writers Leia Baez, Christopher Burbach, Kevin Cole, John Ferak, Nancy Gaarder, Cindy Gonzalez, Paul Hammel, Jeffrey Robb, Michaela Saunders and Tom Shaw contributed to this report.
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 08:16:23 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 08:44:25 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks for posting that Ursus……That is really sad, it looked like things were finally getting better for him… then quickly lost his girlfriend, his job and along with his psychiatric problems he just went downhill…
...
can someone shoot this monster? In or out of the mall?
Post by: TheWho on December 07, 2007, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks for posting that Ursus……That is really sad, it looked like things were finally getting better for him… then quickly lost his girlfriend, his job and along with his psychiatric problems he just went downhill…
...
can someone shoot this monster? In or out of the mall?
You should have read the whole thing, the kid is already dead. He killed himself at the end.
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 09:11:32 PM
Post by: seamus on December 07, 2007, 10:06:13 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2007, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Hawkins had been hospitalized twice for psychiatric problems before being admitted May 18, 2002, to Piney Ridge Center in Waynesville, Mo., for "homicidal threats he made to his stepmother."
http://www.restoringfamily.com/index.ph ... gram&id=85 (http://www.restoringfamily.com/index.php?page=program&id=85)
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 12:46:59 AM
I'd like to know what that "first substance abuse treatment program for adjudicated teens in Western Canada" that he "helped design and implement" is (AARC? or something smaller?). Plus that "36-bed residential care facility for boys and girls ages 13-18 years" in Denver, Colorado that he further honed his chops on...
==================================
About Us (http://http://www.restoringfamily.com/index.php?page=about_us)
Restoring Family was developed to simplify the search process for treatment options for children, teens, and young adults. As the need for therapeutic care increases in our community many organizations have rushed in to the field to meet these expressed needs. As a result, there are more programs than ever that represent a wide array of qualifications, locations, and costs. Restoring Family's desire is to provide parents with a free alternative that enables parents to find and select the most appropriate treatment options within their financial constraints.
John De Vries
Program Consultant
MA in Counseling Psychology (Trinity Western University)
BA in Physical Education, Psychology and Education (Trinity Western University)
Diploma of Biblical Studies (Briercrest Bible College)
John is an enthusiastic counselor who has worked with teens, college students and their families for the past sixteen years in a variety of capacities. He helped design and implement the first substance abuse treatment program for adjudicated teens in Western Canada. He invested nine years in this facility and was responsible for a wide variety of therapeutic tasks, including the development and execution of treatment plans in conjunction with the youths' probation officers, social workers, and parents. He provided therapeutic services in the counseling department of Trinity Western University for two years before moving his family to Denver, Colorado where he spent three years working as a family counselor in a 36-bed residential care facility for boys and girls ages 13-18 years. Over the course of those three years he was promoted to Director of Counseling and then to Program Director where he spent another three years overseeing the program. As the Director, he was responsible for the well being of the students, supervising and managing the Director of counseling, staff counselors, school teachers, and house staff. He also oversaw the licensure of the program with the State of Colorado and was expected to be familiar with the other treatment programs in United States and any cutting edge therapeutic techniques that were being developed. John has visited many other program sites and has attended a number of conferences designed to highlight various counseling services. He has a good sense of what is available in the counseling industry and what attributes are a mark of quality.
John has always had an intense desire to help families and to challenge young men and women to accomplish great things in their lives. He uses a strength-based approach to counseling, believing that parents often have more ability than they might believe to manage and guide their own families. John's hope is that while he might not be able to reduce the struggles one faces in life, he can teach and empower people to carry the load more easily. Nothing exemplifies this belief more than his willingness to bicycle across the United States with four drug-using teens in an attempt to help them discover what was possible in their lives. Throughout his career John has also guided the care-givers of the future by training graduate interns and undergraduate practicum students from a variety of colleges and universities. John is excited to share his experience and assist hurting families in need of guidance and support.
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 01:23:06 AM
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
(And not counting the latest butchery at the mall.)
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 02:03:01 AM
An aside: the website noted for Piney Ridge is NG; I fiddled with a few versions of the name to no avail. Other sites noting the facility are Addiction/Drug Rehab and Therapy oriented listing sites. One of them noted (http://http://www.addictionsearch.com/treatment_facilities/piney-ridge-center-inc_78411.html) that it was "a business in the SAMSHA Drug and Alcohol Rehab Programs category." Some job listings for licensed therapists describes the organization as having facilities at Cave Springs and Fayetteville, AR. I am assuming that this is the same or a closely related organization. The contact addy for said listings would indicate that their website is www.pineyridge.net (http://www.pineyridge.net) , however, it is nonfunctional at the moment.
=====================================
Inpatient - Residential Treatment
Description: Piney Ridge Center is a 60 bed adolescent treatment facility ages 12-19. We treat a variety of mental illness to include psychiatric, substance abuse and sexual offending.
Program Info:
800 772 5354
Fax: 573-774-2907
[url=http://www.pineyridgecenterinc.com]http://www.pineyridgecenterinc.com (http://http://www.restoringfamily.com/index.php?page=program&id=85)
Mailing Address:
1000 Hospital Rd
Waynesville, MO 65583
Physical Location:
Same as mailing address
Contact Person:
Rachel Sanchez
573-774-5353 ext 190
Address:
1000 Hospital Rd
Waynesville, MO 65583
About Program:
Staff to client ratio: 1:4
Staff credentials: LPC, M.D, PsyD., PLPC, CIT
Licensed within state: Yes
Accredited school on site: Yes
Cost per day: $250 - $400
Financial assistance available: No
Spiritual component: No
Christian programming: No
Family counseling available: Yes
Able to conduct physical restraint: Yes
Services:
secure facility
capable of using physical restraint
doctor on staff
ability to dispense medication
uses a token economy to reinforce social skills
accredited school on property
recreation program
family therapy
life skills programming
12 step programming
About Clients:
Gender: Male and Female
Typical age: 12 and under, 13-17, 18-25
Number of clients at facility: 50+
Average length of stay: 3 to 6 Months
Placed by judicial system: Sometimes
Willing participation required: No
Minimum acceptable motivation: Unaware of a need for change
Presenting Problems:
Maximum acceptable levels of client's problem entrenchment at this facility. See Key* below. In other words, how intense are the problems of people involved with this program or facility.
- Abused by Others - Emotionally: 6
Abused by Others - Physically: 6
Abused by Others - Sexually: 6
Abuses Others - Emotionally: 6
Abuses Others - Physically: 6
Abuses Others - Sexually: 6
Addiction - Alcohol: 4
Addiction - Drugs: 4
Addiction - Pornography: 6
Addiction - Sex: 4
Adoption issues: 6
Aggression: 6
Anxiety: 6
Attachment: 6
Depression: 6
Destructive to Property: 6
Disregard for Rules: 6
Eating Problems: 2
Family Discord: 6
Fears/Phobias: 6
Health Issues: 4
Identity: 6
Impulsivity: 6
Lack of Initiative: 6
Learning Disabilities: 2
Legal Problems: 5
Running Away: 6
School Problems: 6
Self-control: 6
Self-esteem: 6
Self-harm: 6
Stealing: 6
1 - Minimal involvement in the problem area, resulting in only a few symptoms. Daily functioning is not affected.
2 - Moderate involvement in the problem area but only somewhat impairs normal functioning.
3 - Frequent involvement in the problem area and is demonstrating impairment in daily functioning.
4 - Involvement in the problem has begun to create severe symptoms and the client is unable to solve problems on their own, but can discuss in a reasonable manner.
5 - Involvement in the problem has begun to create extremely severe symptoms and daily demands have become difficult to meet.
6 - The problem has become totally incapacitating and the lack of stability is causing a concern for the safety of the client and others.[/list]
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 03:15:19 AM
- Piney Ridge Fayetteville (1996; 90 beds)
Piney Ridge Missouri (1989; 60 beds)
Piney Ridge Forrest City (2007?; 20 beds)
Madison Oaks Academy (2007?; 62 beds)
Great River Residential Academy (date?; 28 beds)
Fayetteville seems to be their largest facility, and where they hold conferences. Perhaps completely coincidentally, a conference presented by Piney Ridge Center and the Arkansas Chapter of the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers titled "Joining Forces: Collaboration in the Treatment and Management of Sexual Abuse" was scheduled to be held December 5 and 6, 2007 (start date being also that of when Robert Hawkins lost it at the Mall). PDF link download HERE (http://http://www.amicarebehavioral.com/Joining%20Forces%20Conference.pdf), in case you're interested.
AmiCare Behavioral Centers, LLC
162 Cude Lane | Madison, TN 37115
Phone 615.860.9230
Fax 615.860.9228
Email [email protected]
===================================
[li]AmiCare of Arkansas, LLC[/li]
[li]AmiCare of Missouri, LLC[/li]
[li]AmiCare of Tennessee, LLC[/li]
[li]AmiCare of Forrest City, LLC[/li]
[li]AmiCare Contract Services, LLC[/li][/list]Today, AmiCare provides a full continuum of treatment services for adolescents and children with inappropriate behavior. We also offer specialized programs for girls, substance abuse, sexual behavior disorders, and acute psychiatric services in some locations.
(http://http://www.amicarebehavioral.com/images/AmiCare_Map.gif) (http://http://www.amicarebehavioral.com/history.htm)
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 04:12:12 AM
===================================
Our Leaders (http://http://www.amicarebehavioral.com/leaders.htm)
NEIL CAMPBELL, President and Chief Executive Officer
Neil Campbell brings a wealth of industry and managerial experience to AmiCare, Mr. Campbell was the President of Lighthouse Care Centers LLC and co-founded and served as President and CEO of Keystone Education and Youth Services, L.L.C. He also served as president of Vendell Healthcare, a provider of psychiatric services to adults and youth. His background also includes service as Senior Vice President for GE Capital, Vice President of Finance for OrNda Healthcorp, and Vice President and southwest healthcare manager for Citicorp. Mr. Campbell holds a Masters Degree in Finance from Louisiana State University.
MIKE WHITE, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Mike White, having over 20 years of experience in financial healthcare operations, comes to AmiCare with a successful history in the behavioral health field. He held the position of Senior Vice President/Financial Operations with Keystone Education and Youth Services. Mr. White also held several Controller positions within the psychiatric healthcare industry while working with Vendell Healthcare and Charter Medical Corporation. Mr. White graduated from Western Kentucky University with a bachelor’s degree in accounting.
MARK SCHNEIDER, Executive Vice President of Operations
Mr. Schneider brings to AmiCare over 25 years experience in psychiatric treatment and facility management. His experience includes extensive medical care and supervisory training received in the United States Army, where he was awarded the Bronze Star for Heroism and a Purple Heart for his service during the Vietnam War. Mr. Schneider holds both a Bachelor and Master of Sciences Degree in Nursing from the University of Florida at Gainesville.
R. B. WOLFE, Chairman of the Board
Mr. Wolfe served as Co-chairman and CEO of ARTC, Inc. from 1991 to 2006 when he exchanged his ownership in ARTC for stock in AmiCare Behavioral Centers, LLC. Mr. Wolfe was one of the founding investors in ARTC, Inc., which owned and operated three residential treatment centers. Mr. Wolfe has also been engaged as sole proprietor in construction, real estate investments and ranching. He attended Eastern University in Richmond, Kentucky and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in accounting.
BOBBY D. MIZE, D.D.S., Secretary
Dr. Mize brings more than 30 years of experience of successful business management to the company. He has been a major financial supporter and officer of the ARTC since its founding in 1989. He has also operated a successful dental practice for over thirty five years and a successful farm operation for over 40 years. Dr. Mize holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Arkansas State University and a Doctor of Dental Surgery from the University of Tennessee.
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 05:15:46 AM
============================================
Contact Information[/b]
Phone: 615-383-8335
Fax: 615-383-8134
URL: [url=http://www.cumberlandlawgroup.com]http://www.cumberlandlawgroup.com (http://http://www.lawyers.com/Tennessee/Nashville/Cumberland-Law-Group,-LLPC-1615693-f.html)
Visit Our Website
[url=http://www.lawyers.com/kirklaw]http://www.lawyers.com/kirklaw[/url]
(Main Office)
Cumberland Law Group, LLPC practices in the following areas of law:
Corporate, Business, Securities, Mergers and Acquisitions, Venture Capital, Entertainment, Health Care, Technology, Trademarks, Copyrights and Real Estate.
Firm Size: 3
Representative Clients:
Joel Solomon Co.; Professional Reprographics, L.L.C.; Village Real Estate Services; Windsor Health Group, Inc.; Windsor Health Plan of TN, Inc.; WHP Community Care; Fido; Commerce Capital, L.P.; Wilhagan Ventures, LLC; Athena Housing Partners, LLC; Iroquois Holding Company; Nearfield Acoustics, Inc.; WV Fiber, LLC; Adolescent Residential Treatment Centers, Inc.; Palmer/Snyder Furniture Company, Inc.; Letter Logic, Inc.; Chickering Properties, LLC; Phillips Construction, LLC; McNeil & Company Real Estate Services.
Douglas M. Kirk (Member) born Anchorage, Alaska, November 22, 1959; admitted to bar, 1985, Illinois; 1988, Tennessee. Education: Cornell University (B.A., 1982); Vanderbilt University (J.D., 1985). Cornell National Scholar. Associate Editor, Vanderbilt Journal of Transnational Law, 1985. Legal Briefs Author, National Association of Corporate Directors Monthly, 1985-1987. Member: Illinois State, Tennessee and American Bar Associations. Practice Areas: Corporate; Business; Entertainment; Wills; Trademark & Copyright; Partnerships; Commercial Real Estate; Residential Real Estate.
James L. McElroy (Member) born Cookeville, Tennessee, March 20, 1947; admitted to bar, 1980, Tennessee. Education: Rhodes College (B.A., 1969); State University of New York (Ph.D., 1974); Harvard University (J.D., magna cum laude, 1980). Phi Beta Kappa; Omicron Delta Kappa. Author: Note, "Foreign Holding Company Acquisition of American Banks: Legislative Restrictions and Regulatory Policy," 17 Harv. J. Legis. 555 (Summer, 1980). Member: Nashville, Tennessee and American Bar Associations; Tennessee Biotechnology Association (President, 2002-2003). Practice Areas: Corporate; Securities; Mergers and Acquisitions; Venture Capital; Technology Law; Real Estate.
Kevin D. Norwood (Member) born Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, January 13, 1950; admitted to bar, 1980, Ohio; 1983, Tennessee. Education: University of Virginia (B.A., with distinction and highest honors, 1972; M.A., 1973; M.Ed., 1975) College of William and Mary (J.D., 1980). Member, William and Mary Law Review, 1979-1980. Associate Editor, Environmental Practice News, 1979-1980. Speaker: "Factors Impacting Choice of Entity," NBI 2003, 2004; "Highlights of S and C Corporations," NBI, 2003, 2004; "Key Issues Impacting Entry Section," NBI 2005; "S and C Corporation Basics." NBI 2005. Member: Nashville, Tennessee and American (Member, Business Law; Committee on Partnerships and Unincorporated Business Organizations) and Health Law (Managed Care and Insurance Interest Group Sections) Bar Associations. Practice Areas: Corporate Law; Business Law; Securities; Mergers and Acquisitions; Healthcare Law; Venture Capital Financing; Real Estate; Administrative; Insurance. Email: Kevin D. Norwood
The determination of the need for legal services and the choice of a lawyer are extremely important decisions and should not be based solely upon advertisements, certification, specialization or self-proclaimed expertise. Certifications of specialization are available to Tennessee lawyers in all areas of practice relating to or included in the areas of Civil Trial, Criminal Trial, Business Bankruptcy, Consumer Bankruptcy, Creditor's Rights, Medical Malpractice, Legal Malpractice, Accounting Malpractice, Elder Law, Estate Planning and Family Law. Listing of related or included practice areas herein does not constitute or imply representation of certification of specialization. These disclosures are required by the Supreme Court of Tennessee.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 08:18:03 AM
Quote
…Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Thanks for finding that.... I looked last night and could not locate it... I thought the number was higher than that.
So this number spans 3 decades.. 1980 thru 2007… includes all the kids who went to facilities i.e. mental hospitals, juvenile detention centers, boot camps..
So if you consider the hundreds of thousands of kids who have been placed in these places and then consider that only 155 of them has died “In or out of the facilitiesâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 08:37:28 AM
What I attempted to do was isolate a small segment of the industry (Wilderness and TBS). As a parent I found that information regarding mental hospitals and military boot camps just served to cloud the issue when I was looking for help for my daughter… these were not the options I was considering and there was no data available to me to look at…..
For example If I was looking to buy a car one of my areas of interest may be gas mileages. If the only information I could get was “The average for all pickup trucks, cars, boats and 18 wheelers is 11 miles per gallonâ€
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 02:43:04 PM
====================================
www.amicarebehavioral.com[/url].
Clients welcomed to the dramatically renovated and repaired Dream Center building near Old Hickory Mall are Level 3, one step below the most difficult and violent cases. "They've failed in outpatient treatment or inpatient acute care. They've attempted suicide or are a threat to others. In therapeutic foster homes, they might be disrupting placement," Stephenson said. Mental health issues, chemical imbalances and substance abuse can be contributing factors.
I checked the above article's link (= highlighted title), 'cuz the photos disappeared! Well... it's been pulled off the net. Guess the topic of Piney Ridge is too hot right now. Probably the same reason Amicare pulled all their job listings, too...
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on December 08, 2007, 02:52:31 PM
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 03:18:46 PM
AmiCare Behavioral Centers is searching for a positive, energetic, child advocate in one of our adolescent residential treatment programs. Counseling or Social Work license required. Duties include individual, group, and family therapy. Must also pro... [/list]These spots appear to have "expired" and have disappeared, even ones first posted just 3 days ago. They have definitely pulled them.
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: ""3xsaSeedling""
Jackson, where?
Tennessee. Back up a few posts, there's a map.
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 08:22:38 PM
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
Quote from: ""click my link""
http://www.newstarget.com/022330.html
I'll do you one better; I'll expand it. In another two years that link may or may not lead anywhere unless you're willing to pay for it...
Here: in OFFA:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299875#299875 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299875#299875)
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 10:47:45 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 11:03:34 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""click my link""http://www.newstarget.com/022330.htmlI'll do you one better; I'll expand it. In another two years that link may or may not lead anywhere unless you're willing to pay for it...
Here: in OFFA:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299875#299875 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299875#299875)
Thanks, Click my link and Ursus.... Each event like this leads me more and more to be convinced that medicating children at a young age is contributing heavily to these types of episodes. The correlation is not quite compelling but is convincing enough that I wouldn’t suggest medicating any kids with so called psychotropic drugs unless as a last resort (whatever that may be).
It will be interesting to also see what other drugs this kid was taking or if it will ever be known.
...
Post by: Ursus on December 08, 2007, 11:27:32 PM
While I have been unable to find info on the publisher of said article, I find it highly likely that there is some connection as well. CCHR is too prominently noted in the article, plus some of the other literature cited there also appears to be connected. NewsWatch also published some article on Tom Cruise a while back, and made just a little too big a deal over his being a Scientologist.
Noted article, while making some interesting points, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe should be excised!
But, heh, look at it this way: some Scientologist sees fit to pore over the annals of fornits, ha ha!!
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 12:48:01 AM
You can thank CCHR for compiling the data for that expose and drawing media attention to the issue in 1998.
In 1998, the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), a group with a 30-year history of investigating and exposing psychiatric abuse and responsible for more than 100 reformed mental health laws around the world, worked directly with the Hartford Courant in Connecticut, providing them with detailed, documented cases of restraint deaths in psychiatric institutions.
The Hartford Courant conducted a five-month investigation resulting in a five-part series exposing the 142 deaths, as identified by public agencies, advocacy offices and news accounts. The reporting team focused on deaths in psychiatric hospitals, psychiatric wards of general hospitals, group homes and residential facilities for troubled youths, as well as mental retardation centers.1 Thirteen children had died in the past two years alone, the youngest a 6-year-old.
If it were the baptists, or methodists, or catholics, mentioned in the story, would you feel compelled to apologize? You may not support scientology, but don't cut your throat to spite your face. They've been fighting this fight for a long time and have already done more to protect kids than anyone on this site will ever do.
Hate them, Fear them, but their fight against psychiatric abuses benefits everyone. Acknowledging that we benefit from their efforts doesn't make you a cult member. The only people who fear so-called cults are those who don't trust themselves to accurately assess a situation, who fear being roped in and brainwashed.
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 01:22:05 AM
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cchr-infiltration-plan.htm (http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cchr-infiltration-plan.htm)
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cchr-lies-noted.htm (http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/cchr-lies-noted.htm)
Anyone interested in what the clams do to children ought to read this:
http://www.raids.org/gen00049.htm (http://www.raids.org/gen00049.htm)
This actually reminds me- the serious cultslayers on Xenu.net have documentation abilities and protest power that would provide a massive, massive buff to protest organizations like the YLF and whatever documents Fornits has archived. Since the programs aren't one cohesive target like Scientology, it'll be a different experience, but I think that they will be very helpful to our cause.
Army of Xenu! Scientology is bleeding to death, in a tailspin of destruction. Yet they are far from the last great evil to haunt the Western world. There are thousands of tortured children who could decisively use the intervention of experienced cult destroyers. Will you hear the call?
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 01:49:53 AM
http://www.ect.org/texas-mh-community-b ... o-ban-ect/ (http://www.ect.org/texas-mh-community-blasts-bill-to-ban-ect/)
http://www.ect.org/news/txhosp.html (http://www.ect.org/news/txhosp.html)
http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/wir7-34.html (http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/wir7-34.html)
http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol2704/psych.htm (http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol2704/psych.htm)
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB05/1998 ... ant11.html (http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB05/1998hartfordcourant11.html)
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 02:07:21 AM
Needless to say, hitching our wagon to something like that means instant discreditation. No one here is that stupid. Should I bother referencing RPF prison camps? Eh, Fornits can Google (another organization Scientology tried to blackmail into keeping critical information off the Internet). It's a no-brainer, really.
So, again, clam: Fuck off. Go crawling back on your belly to your masters at OSA (is there even an OSA left? Miscavige has been going more and more apeshit (http://http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=24064)) or wherever the fuck you came from. Although it's immensely entertaining in principle to watch one cult go after another, you haven't the slighest ability to help us or anyone.
I reiterate my request for the Army of Xenu to give us a hand here.
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 09:11:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ah, let's see. Yup, the usual! Attempts to link CCHR to actual people and organizations doing real work; conflating real treatment with abusive bullshit because Hubbard won't let you tell the difference; constant attacks on the EEEEEEEEVIL PSYCHS.
Needless to say, hitching more and more apeshit[/url]) or wherever the fuck you came from. Although it's immensely entertaining in principle to watch one cult go after another, you haven't the slighest ability to help us or anyone.
I reiterate my request for the Army of Xenu to give us a hand here.
Who's "our" and "us"? Who said anything about Fornits or anyone else "hitching a wagon" to them? The statement was.... like it or not, CCHR has lobbied for and successfully gotten laws inacted that protect the masses from many aspects of psych abuse.
And what other organizations are lobbying for a ban on restraints in RTCs, ECT, the drugging of children, etc. You don't have to like them or ban up with them to acknowledge that you benefit from their efforts. While you sit on a message board espousing your fear :scared: they will continue to file complaints on programs, lobby for legislation, and bring media attention to the issue.
Post by: SettleForNothingLess on December 10, 2007, 02:48:49 PM
Hawkins spent four years in a series of treatment centers, group homes and foster care after threatening to kill his stepmother in 2002, state officials said.
In August 2006, social workers, the courts and his father all agreed: It was time for Hawkins to be released -- nine months before he turned 19 and would have been required to leave anyway.
Im curious to know which ones... I tried finding maybe a myspace profile of his, but Im sure police removed it if there was one.
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 11:06:02 AM
(check local listings for your area)
FOX NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT DOUGLAS KENNEDY ONCE AGAIN TAKES ON THE ISSUE OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS AND PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS ON THE FOX NATIONAL NEWS SHOW "HANNITY'S AMERICA"
Fox National News producer and correspondent Douglas Kennedy was the first television producer to expose the link between school shootings and antidepressant drugs in his groundbreaking 2002 Fox News series, "Deadly Drugs." For the last 5 years he has become the most outspoken TV correspondent on this issue. A recent USA Today article called "More Reporters Embrace an Advocacy Role, " cited high profile "social journalists advocacy work" and included such national figures as Oprah Winfrey, ABC World News' Bob Woodruff, NBC's Anne Curry and ABC's Diane Sawyer, and Fox News' Douglas Kennedy as the leading journalist taking on the issue of the dangers of psychiatric drugs prescribed to millions of kids, "You can be objective and still take on an issue that is important to society and to you personally," Kennedy said.
This Sunday, Douglas once again takes on the psycho/pharmaceutical cartel for doling out drugs that are turning kids into killers. He says that this is his most hard hitting expose to date. You don't want to miss this. Sunday Night. Fox National News Channel. I encourage everyone concerned about this issue to tape, Tivo or better yet -- watch this show and tell everyone you know to do the same.
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 03:10:53 PM
Quote
Fox News
You could have just stopped there, you know.
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 05:16:01 PM
There seems to be an unholy alliance between the war on drugs folks and big pharma. Get the kids to stop using street drugs and get them all to start using big pharma's drugs -- even the kids who weren't even using street drugs.
In the future, we will all be on drugs. And we will have the War on Drugs to thank for it.
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 05:21:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 01:12:48 PM
he was a nice kid...
didnt cause many problems...
that place is a joke.
i could tell you so many stories!
-chase
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 01:14:46 PM
Post by: Ursus on December 21, 2007, 04:53:22 PM
Link expanded on the forum here:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299551#299551 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=299551#299551)
What do you think made Robbie "snap?"
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2007, 03:27:04 AM
and forced to develop a personal idenity of nothing beyond "the crazy person with serious problems".
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2007, 03:27:47 AM
and forced to develop a personal idenity of nothing beyond "the crazy person with serious problems".
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2007, 04:56:56 PM
The judge is putting him in a "treatment facility" until he's 21.
The judge didn't put him in prison or give him a lenghty sentance because file = his family was so abusive. This understanding needs to be extended to program kids who get commit serious crimes.
But what "treatment facility" is this kid going to go to?
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2007, 02:32:12 AM
whats up with you. a program that tortures your body and soul makes children depressed and suicidal.
your talk about NOT blaming the 'progrmming' for the horrific consequences they cause is making me think you're first name might be miller, ruth, mel or betty....