Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Antigen on January 14, 2006, 04:32:00 PM
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Ok, ya'll. I've been giving a lot of thought to recent angst and turmoil over moderating this forum. Deb's up for it, she's a competent adult, no problem. I should have probably announced it and Deb should have said something before hitting the delete key. Least ways, that's how I view it.
So, if she's still up for it, I'll set that back the way it was and ya'll know, henceforth, that Deb is the moderator. If not, then Nobody will continue to moderate this forum.
Meanwhile, I had the most comical idea today and thought I'd throw it out there for your opinions.
ShortBus = JamesFrey
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/)
And is friends, by whatever means, w/ Paris Hilton. Further, I'll posit that, while ShortBus is, no doubt, an unmitigated prick, he really is trying to use his powers for good and not evil (in a Discordian sort of way)
I'm perklempt, discuss...
Sorry, not perklempt, actually ROFLMAO!!! :rofl: A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Thanks Ginger :wink:
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Laugh at the devil, baby! It's the only thing he can't stand.
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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You rock the galaxy man!! :wave:
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Meanwhile, I had the most comical idea today and thought I'd throw it out there for your opinions.
ShortBus = JamesFrey
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/)
And is friends, by whatever means, w/ Paris Hilton. Further, I'll posit that, while ShortBus is, no doubt, an unmitigated prick, he really is trying to use his powers for good and not evil (in a Discordian sort of way)
I'm perklempt, discuss...
I actually heard this guy on Oprah (I wasn't watching it - someone had it on the TV) and I thought it was great that he was speaking out about overcoming addiction without Stepcraft.
At one point, I guess pictures were being shown, and Oprah commented that she saw a beer bottle in the photo, and Frey said it was a buddy - that he could actually live a normal existence and be around people drinking, and choose not to. I thought "FINALLY - someone worth listening to about "recovery"
But then again - I only caught bits and pieces of this. Dollars and cents wise - I can see why he embellished the story if he was told it wouldn't sell otherwise. It's kind of a shitty thing to do, and it could wind him up in some legal trouble.
Hell, many times I thought about writing a book. I'd have to sell it as fiction - because no one would believe some of this shit! :grin: I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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Funny you mention that because his book is sold as fiction. According to the MSNBC report he pitched it to 17 publishers who declined to print it and finally he got a taker who would publish as fiction.
Wanna hear the worst part? After seeing him on Oprah, my wife bought the book. What a scam!
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Have anyone read it?
Did he name which "rehab(s)" he attended, or give enough info to make an educated guess?
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***Ok, ya'll. I've been giving a lot of thought to recent angst and turmoil over moderating this forum. Deb's up for it, she's a competent adult, no problem.***
:smile: Thanks
***I should have probably announced it and Deb should have said something before hitting the delete key. Least ways, that's how I view it.***
Agreed, just trying to divert some troll spam until the guidelines for the forum were established. Apologies for any confusion. Rest assured, no one missed anything of significance.
***So, if she's still up for it, I'll set that back the way it was and ya'll know, henceforth, that Deb is the moderator.***
I've had a busy weekend and will accept moderator status when I have composed a welcome page. Could be a few hours or a few days.
If anyone has feedback they'd like me to consider, post it here, complete with an explanation for your preferences.
I would like, over some period of time, to clear out informative threads that were bogged down with spam or useless dialogue. I am not referring to open disagreement or the use of expletives. I'm not a puritan and actually quit tolerant of how people choose to express themselves. I'm referring to back and forth comments about what to do with one's body parts, as one example; that lend nothing to the discussion. I would ask those with user names? permission before doing so.
The forum serves many useful purposes. We have current/ex participants, staff, and pro/anti parents sharing their experiences. We have a few staff that have identified themselves and answered questions. We have anons presenting as staff, some genuine and some trolls. We have survivors of other programs, and pro/anti programs activists. And, the occasional obnoxious troll. Quiet a mix with the potential for useful dialogue.
This is, first and foremost a venue for survivors, their parents/guardians, friends, and supporters. I personally have low tolerance for program-like behavior being directed at surivors. They have had quite enough of that for several lifetimes.
This is not "Reals". Disagreement, even real world ?confrontation?, is fine. I?d prefer everyone to have a user name, as it eliminates the confusion of which anon said what. I will encourage it, but won?t require it, with one exception.
Representatives of HLA are welcome to post- with a user name.
If you forget to login, as a matter of courtesy, I?ll edit your post and put your user name(s) at the bottom of the message.
Anon messages that state or suggest they are a current HLA rep will be deleted. This has only led to confusion in the past.
While this may seem unfair, it actually works to HLAs benefit; as any anon troll can not pose as a representative.
Group chaos theory/therapy can be useful as a means to an end, when all participants are willing. On an internet forum, it is frustrating at best, unless all particpants are in agreement, are known atleast by a user name, and there are no anon posters. Otherwise, in my opinion, it's just chaos, and often very boring, wastes people time, attention, and resource.
I'm certain I haven't contemplated every possible scenario, but that?s my thinking at the moment, which is subject to change. I?ll wait for feedback. I feel that some moderation and a few basic guidelines will make reading this forum easier, and cut down on chaos and confusion.
Deborah
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It was FINE just the way it was, leave well enough alone, jeeeeeez.
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The danger in moderating a forum like this one is the moderator will tend to consider posts they dont like to be "spam" and delete them. This is not a position that can be objective in my opinion, unless the moderator is brought in and has no opinion either way on the subject. We all know how Deborah feels about this issue, so I feel she cannot be objective. Not that there is anything wrong with that necesarilly, I just feel she will have a hard time being objective because of her opinions on this issue.
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On 2006-01-15 13:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The danger in moderating a forum like this one is the moderator will tend to consider posts they dont like to be "spam" and delete them. This is not a position that can be objective in my opinion, unless the moderator is brought in and has no opinion either way on the subject. We all know how Deborah feels about this issue, so I feel she cannot be objective. Not that there is anything wrong with that necesarilly, I just feel she will have a hard time being objective because of her opinions on this issue."
You are 100% correct.
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Well, I'm willing to try it and find out. Greg moderates the Seed forum and it seems like a pretty balanced representation. I dunno. I sort of agree that it's very, very hard to be objective, even when you do have a pretty accurate idea of what the author is talking about. So often, you just don't. Take that anal sex thread that sprouted up in some unrelated discussion. All combatants were actually friends pranking each other and havin' a good ole time. It was not a brawl at all, but something more like homage to Howard Stern or something.
I'd tread very lightly w/ that delete key. But that's just me. We'll see how it goes, eh? If ya hate it, can't stand it, well... see my sig.It continues to amaze me to talk to law students -- college
graduates all and smarter than the average bear -- who will
seriously tell me about how dangerous mj is and how it
destroys the lives of those who use it and who, in the
very next sentence, will tell me how they and their
friends -- now CPAs, engineers, med students -- used
pot regularly through high school and college. And
they don't see the contradiction between these statements.
We're not just talking ignorance here -- we are talking
deep down, serious, religious indoctrination.
--Buford C. Terrell, Professor of Law, South Texas College of Law
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Oh, one other thing. Moderating a discussion is just a chore. It doesn't endow the moderator w/ any elevation of status or anything. It's just something that some folks think needs to be done. I rather disagree most of the time, but then I may well be wrong. Matt's still the nominal moderator of the Elan forum. He does pop in once in awhile, but doesn't seem to do a lot of editing, least not that I hear about anyway. I would have let someone else moderate that one (w. Matt's permission, of course) if I could have found someone I thought was up to it. I couldn't. So I made a seperate forum for Elanians who thought they were better than the rest. Predictably enough, it died of neglect.
Ok, that's a couple other things.The most serious parody I have ever heard was this: In the beginning was nonsense, and the nonsense was with God, and the nonsense was God.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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Oh yeah, and one other thing. If people post anon, then they havn't given consent to bust them out on it. You might bait them, pursuede them to cop to it. But it would be a tactical error to bust them publicly w/o their consent. If you do that, they'll likely go away AND whine about how you've wronged them.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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Ginger, where is that anal sex argument thread, It made me laugh so hard!! Can you find it??
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Oh, just search on "My wife is PERFECTLY HAPPY with the missionary position" as a phrase.
I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
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How the hell do I do that! :lol:
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Aw, come on...
It takes a village idiot to believe that a family needs instruction from the government to raise a child.
-- Anonymous homeschooler
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I tried to do the search, 4 links come up, but I can't find the actual *priceless* argument!!
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On 2006-01-15 13:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The danger in moderating a forum like this one is the moderator will tend to consider posts they dont like to be "spam" and delete them. This is not a position that can be objective in my opinion, unless the moderator is brought in and has no opinion either way on the subject. We all know how Deborah feels about this issue, so I feel she cannot be objective. Not that there is anything wrong with that necesarilly, I just feel she will have a hard time being objective because of her opinions on this issue."
My opinions and experience are attached to a user name, unlike yours at the current moment.
What are your concerns, specific to you?
I'm certain that I am not completely objective (are any of us?), but may be more so than the moderator of the HLA forum. The difference here- all 'opinons' are welcome here.
Can I identify spam. Yes.
Could I eliminate the of harrassment of survivors? Yes, to a large degree.
Could I control everything? No, and don't care to.
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Don't take yor "job" so seriously babe, jeeeez :lol:
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The irony here is that one of the most frequent complaints that I have heard about HLA is that they try to monitor and control what is said about them. Anyone who tries to control the communication should not be trusted.
Is that still true?
Are there now times where it is appropriate to put limits on conversation?
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Personally? I don't think so. But some folks who I respect dissagree. Just look over the Seed forum. Why not? You have old buddies there, don't you? You might know one of my brothers or sisters.
But Greg runs it w/ a critical mind and a sincere interest in all viewpoints and an old fashioned sense of what is and is not civil, proper behavior for mixed company. I can't argue. Let's see what she does.
Is Deb biased? Sure. But you just go and find me someone who knows anything meaningful about this industry and who hasn't got an opinion.
I'd still like to know what, if any, connection exists between the Farell of Quirk and Quirk and the sole advocate for Randal Hinton w/ Litchfield money throughout the whole Kemper deal.
Hey, ya'll know who your critics are and where we are. We certainly don't have any carefully disguised, well funded cabal of operatives, or even carelessly so. Why are you folks so circumspect about that normally casually public info? What have you got to hide? Why are you so skeered to put your balls on the table like the rest of us?
Just something to think aboutUnder the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
James Madison
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Not scared. Just pointing out a double standard.
You make some good points though.
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On 2006-01-15 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The irony here is that one of the most frequent complaints that I have heard about HLA is that they try to monitor and control what is said about them. Anyone who tries to control the communication should not be trusted.
Is that still true?
Are there now times where it is appropriate to put limits on conversation?
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You've apparently misunderstood. I have no desire to monitor/control what you say to or about others. I would prefer that you own it.
There is a clear distinction between moderating and censorship.
Kids at HLA are monitored and censored, followed by swift punishment.
The HLA forum is monitored and censored. All 'opinions' are not allowed.
No one will control or punish you here unless you consider pulling in the reins on someone running amok, punishment.
I have no desire to censor or 'control' any of your opinions. I actually appreciate the participation of HLA staff (you too Suzanne), provided you post under a user name and identify as such. If you are opposed to identifying as staff/teacher/administrator (name optional), you certainly have the option not to participate.
I?m not sure moderator 'is' the appropriate term for this position. It's what the owner/software chose and what stands. It does imply an impartial, objective (impossible), mediator of sorts. I?m not impartial and have stated as much. Nor do I care to mediate personal disputes. I stated what my 'moderating' goals would be in the first post so I won?t reiterate them here.
You have a user name. Why aren?t you using it? You obviously have some resentment toward DJ. Why hash it out on a public forum? Private message him. My guess is that he?d appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
What I have noticed thus far in the discussion of moderation is that all those opposed have user names, but posted their dissent anonymously, and have some affiliation with HLA.
We?ll see how survivors and other participants weigh in on the issue. Tomorrow is a new day.
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Can you tell us what Short Bus brings to the conversation?
The answer is nothing, he doenst comment on HLA because he doenst know anything about it because he was never there.
Since that is the case and he is simply wasting bandwith why not remove his comments?
Why waste time going through comments that have nothing to do with the conversation?
Removing opposing opinions is something else altogether.
No double standard just you evading the real issues.
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ShortBus = JamesFrey
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10808306/)
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Quote from James Frey:
"If you do what the [Alcoholics Anonymous 'Big Book'] says, you will be cured. If you follow their righteous path, that path will lead you straight to redemption. If you join the club, you're the lucky winner of a lifelong supply of bullshit Meetings full of whining, complaining and blaming...
Certainly 'sounds' like Shortbus. Just loves to whine and complain about other survivors whining and complaing. Very curious.
Was HLA really a "cake walk" in comparison to the the tough Hazeldon rehab?
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Well, that's one way to take it. But I was thinking more along the lines of great media hoaxters and forum trolls.
Take Million Little Pieces as the most astute troll ever perpatrated on and at the expense of the stepcraft culture. Never mind that he disavows the stepcraft method austensibly. The whole book is nothing but a protracted oldcomer introduction, complete w/ wild flights of fantasey.
And the audience eagerly lapped up each last little morsel of unbelievable bullshit. They just loves their soap operas, don't they children?
So, dude made some millions off of it. Good for him. I doubt if he planned on getting busted, but so much the better that he has.
Now here's SB pretending to work for HLA at the task of revealing someone's name and location. I don't even think he came up w/ the idea, he's just stoking your own paranoia about it. Think about it. There are far better, quicker and easier ways to find someone's location than by relentlessly trolling a web forum.
Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense...
-- John Adams, (1788)