Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 01:01:00 PM
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."
This Is my life. This is my Truth and I hope anyone reading will listen closely. We want no trouble. We just want everyone to understand that we arent the bad guys. When you believe in something, its hard to change your mind, but remember, The worst of mistakes, fall apon those with a closed mind. So think before you take a side, and then dont take one. If you have idle time, spend it usefully. I just wish for everyone to believe that people have there reasons for saying what they say, but also know that we are good people, We still love leah and wish she would stop the lies and remember the person she used to be. We wish people who dont know us wouldnt judge. We try not to judge also. But everyone is human. I'm sorry for any problems this has caused and it has been hard for all of us. but i hope to let everyone know that this is a place of good, we love everyone and everyone is a family. We share eachothers everything. I am sending out an open invitation to anyone who wants to come see at any time, how things go around here, come and stop by for a visit, then you can make your judgemnts. Please, give evey side a chance. It would only be fair to both of us that you know the complete stories on both sides. if you have any questions, please feel free to ask them. And please i hope knowone will take the words i have offered from my heart and turn them into something they are not. I mean what i say and i say what i mean. Thats is all there is too it. bless anyone out there that they will find strength to know whats true, and to take the side of god.
Sincerely,
A whitmore student
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 03:12:00 PM
Post by: Gmom on March 11, 2005, 03:41:00 PM
Leah is a very strong girl. She learned a lot about what she did not want to be part of or be like. In the end the love of her family and the teachings of her family were her strengths, not the Whitmore. You can make all the accusations you like against her, but you cannot take away what the Sudweeks have done, what they contracted to provide for the money they were paid. It's real simple, they lied to us. They led us to believe they would provide things that they did not.
So you see, it's not about the kids' problems, what bad behavior they displayed -- that's what they were there to fix -- it's about the untruths told by the Sudweeks, the abusiveness and the neglect.
There is a right and a wrong. To sit back, to not take a stand for what you believe, to not take sides, to stand back and do nothing, is to let the things that are wrong to continue. Everyone is part of the human race and has a stake in it. Stand up and be heard -- participate -- help right the wrongs.
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 07:12:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 07:14:00 PM
"
[/quote]
ok, if you want to do so much good then tell the authorities about zitas momma, she is the one raping her daughter, f'in lesbian. do something about that!
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 07:23:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on March 11, 2005, 09:42:00 PM
Look, here's the thing. A lot, probably most, of what's gone back and forth in this forum lately has been low brow, ugly, mean spirited BS. But if you skip past that stuff, you'll find that there are a few, simple and pretty serious issues also under discussion, barely heard above the din.
These issues are not your fault! And "Mama" has no business taking it out on you in any way.
One of the issues I'm interested in discussing is the method of treatment that Whitmore offers. I'll tell you right up front that I hold a very dim view of group therapy, especially w/o meaningful informed consent. One of the problems that I have w/ that treatment model is that you have to secure meaningful confidentiality agreements w/ everyone involved. As we've seen here lately, that doesn't always work out as well as you might initially intend. You kids have no business knowing half the stuff you know about each other, even the bit of it that might be factually true.
You didn't set it up this way. It's just what you were handed. No, you're not the bad guys. I don't even think the Sudweeks or the edcons or the parents involved really thought this through. But I hope they'll start thinking about it now.
If we choose to violate the rights of the innocent in order to discover and act against the guilty, then we have transformed our country into a police state and abandoned one of the fundamental tenants of a free society. In order to win the war on drugs, we must not sacrifice the life of the Constitution in the battle.
--US District Judge H. Lee Sarokin
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 05:14:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on March 12, 2005, 11:37:00 AM
May your days be joyfully challenging and your words artfully true
-- Ginger Warbis SMA, `00
Post by: Gmom on March 12, 2005, 11:52:00 AM
to see that is "normal" of "healthy" or "right."
You said the Sudweeks did some bad things. That is not acceptable. That is not okay. That is not a right that they have. It is really that simple.
Post by: Gmom on March 12, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: Gmom on March 12, 2005, 12:05:00 PM
THIS HAS GOT TO STOP.
Post by: Antigen on March 12, 2005, 12:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 02:14:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
You have to understand that there is no such thing as a perfect place that helps troubled teens, never has and never will be.
That has been my contention all along. Like a lot of these troubled teen programs, the Whitmore is marketed as a kinder, gentler, better alternative to some of the more abusive places. You probably already knew that. What you might not know is that damned near all of these places say exactly the same thing about themselves and others. As recently as last week, I heard from an adult that Hidden Lake Academy is kinder and gentler than The Seed. But if you ask a dedicated Seedling (and you can find a few posting to the Seed forum on this server, my brother among them) The Seed was nothing but goodness and love, w/ maybe a mistake or two. Essentially just as you describe the Whitmore. But then you can also find people who found the whole experience to be horrific and who had problems owing to it for years afterward.
Well my question, going back a couple of years now, is this. What exactly is this better alternative? How does it work? How is a parent supposed to know the difference between one program's claims of superiority and all the others?
How does it "work"? How does a kid, taken there against their will, come to change w/o the kind of forced behavior mod techniquies we're all so familiar with? And, maybe more importantly, why are these kids attacking each other now?
Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
Post by: Anonymous on March 12, 2005, 01:50:00 PM
And how can group therapy, led by a non-therapist with the focus being on one kid with the point of the "GROUP SESSION" being to humiliate that one kid and possible to physically abuse the kid?
There is no confidentialy. Each kid must "confess" why he/she was brought to Whitmore, and many feel a need to "add to the confession if they don't appear to be BAD ENOUGH."
Parents are told the PROGRAM works one way, when in actuality it works the opposite. The contract states there will be no physical abuse of anykind for discipline, and there IS. When all communication is MONITORED, then the parents are highly criticized for NOT KNOWING. The school is advertised one way and presented by the honest-seeming referral company as THE BEST--then it is NOT. It is a vicious circle. Then after-the-fact, when parents complain, file criminal charges the parents are held up as lunatics, vindictive, and WORSE. How does the cycle end? New, uninformed parents just fill the void of the WISER parents who got their kids out.
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 03:45:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 12, 2005, 04:01:00 PM
Are you a high school student?
Are you living at home with your parents?
If so, now that you are back home in your "old environment," how are you doing there now?
How are YOU different after your year at Whitmore, and how is your relationship going with your parents and your old friends?
Think that is some things we'd like to know.
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 04:17:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 12:45:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"i was desporite to go home when i first got there for about the first 6 months. kids don't want to change, and mark and Cheryl can't change them. They have to be the once that choose to change, but they need a place like the Whitmore to take then away from their bad environment to think stuff over and think about their future.... there is so much more. please try to understand this is all just commont sence please get some"
How exactly is this miraculous change brought about? I know Ginger has asked this. Can we get your view of how this process works?
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
Post by: Antigen on March 12, 2005, 04:40:00 PM
Same thing is happening here. A few different kids are describing things that happen at Whitmore, only some people actually do think it's something to be concerned about. Reading private journals to the whole school, for example, and then discussing the sensitive details in a group w/ lots of yelling and humiliation. You may have gotten used to it, but it's really not OK to treat anybody that way. It can be really damaging, especially to a kid who may actually have some real issues to deal with to begin with.
And here's the kicker; this DOES explain, better than anything any advocate has told us, exactly how this mysterious "change" comes about. It seems counterintuitive, but it's just one of those strange quirks about the way people think and behave. If you humiliate someone, break them down and treat them badly, you'd think they'd only hate you more. But that's not what happens. What happens is the opposite. They'll beg for your love and affection and then do anything to defend you IF you can keep them from getting away long enough to break them down.
If that's not what's going on there, and I admit that I could be wrong, can you please explain what is happening during that time when kids go from desperation to leave to total devotion?
Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.
-- John Muir
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 06:52:00 PM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 06:54:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 15:52:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"I am doing good at home and I am staying away from my old friends because they are the once who had the big negative influence on me. I am still in high school but graduating this may. I have allot of plans ahead of me. In August i am going to the University of Tennessee before i came to the whitmore I had no life no future but as you can see now that i am actually going somewhere in life. I am actually going to get my PHD in psychology and counseling. I have done allog of drugs in life I am actually amazed at myself and what that place has done for me. What do you want from them they are just doing their best to help troubled teens
"
Thanks for the update, but you still didn't answer Antigen's question.
But while we're on the subject of your education, what are the classes like at Whitmore? Who are the teachers there?
If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 06:57:00 PM
http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac ... 0312155424 (http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=7361618&Mytoken=20050312155424)
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
Immortality: A toy which people cry for, And on their knees apply for, Dispute, contend and lie for, And if allowed Would be right proud Eternally to die for.
--Ambrose Bierce
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:03:00 PM
It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:05:00 PM
did you click on my link to see who I am??
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:02:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"ok!!!! I am satisfied with the classes that the whitmore has. i learned allot from them.
I guess the phrase "a lot" wasn't covered huh?
Did you accumulate credits while you were in this "school" that could be transferred to your current school?
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:07:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:05:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"we had 3 teachers there. Science, Math, English, but now they got more because people keep complaining
Real, accredited teachers?
Quote
did you click on my link to see who I am??"
Yes, I did.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:08:00 PM
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:08:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"I know that they didn't give out transcrips to everybody and I don't know for what reason..
Why don't you ask?
Quote
but I am getting my at the end of april maybe May"
Are you sure? For your sake I hope its true.
And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.
Maximus
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:11:00 PM
How 'bout an answer to this?
Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:09:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"tell me you name since you know who I am now I have nothing to hide just trying to spread the truth"
What does my name have to do with the questions being posed to you? You need my name before you can answer? Sounds like an avoidance tactic to me.
Life is like a shit sandwich; the more bread you got, the less shit you gotta eat.
--Anonymous
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:14:00 PM
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.
>>>>>>>>>
""I don't know what you mean by this???
I will be honest but i am not sure if i am gonna get my transcrips but I choose to believe Cheryl, when I was there we had an honest relationship between eachother, even though she didn't beleive me most of the time when i was telling the truth
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 12, 2005, 07:15:00 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Life is like a shit sandwich; the more bread you got, the less shit you gotta eat.
--Anonymous
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 12, 2005, 07:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 16:14:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.>""I don't know what you mean by this???
Those are just random quotes that pop up on posts if you choose that option.
>>>>>>>>>
Quote
I will be honest but i am not sure if i am gonna get my transcrips but I choose to believe Cheryl, when I was there we had an honest relationship between eachother, even though she didn't beleive me most of the time when i was telling the truth"
Do you not see how contradictory this statement is? :???:
Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Anonymous on March 12, 2005, 07:32:00 PM
I sure hope you get your transcript from Cheryl.
I know 2 kids who Cheryl would not send them to, and one had to repeat a whole year of school, and one had to take the GED to get into college.
You know both of them if you just went home.
Why do you think Cheryl would do this?
Also, if you felt you and Cheryl really had an honest relationship, then why wouldn't she believe you all they time? That sounds weird. Sort of like manipulation to me.
Post by: Antigen on March 12, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Well, I'm really not hiding who I am either.
There's a lot about me on this site, but my interest in the troubled parent industry really goes back to the brief self description in my signature.
If you want to know more, well I host this site so the "About Us" page is all about us (though probably a little out of date)
It's really not necessary for me to know everything about you to have this conversation. And, for what it's worth, I believe that the Sudweeks believe in what they're doing. As for what I want, I want to know if they understand what they're doing and if you kids and/or your parents understand it.
You might make a comparison to medical treatment. It's true, for example, that chemo therapy is a good and accepted treatment for some kinds of cancer. And it's true that some forms of cancer are first diagnosed by lumps in your flesh. But chemo doesn't cure all lumps. Some are cysts, some are benign tumors, some are fat, some are other things. And chemo has serious, often deadly, side effects. So you don't go around giving chemo to anyone who presents w/ any kind of fleshy lump. You have to understand what it is, how it works and what it's good for.
I want to know what form of therapy Whitmore (and other programs) offers, how it works and what it's good for.
From what you say, I'm glad you're back in school and looking forward to college. And it's good that you have high aspirations. But are you certain it's good to just shut out all of your old friends? Part of growing up has to do w/ gaining a certain level of self determination. I have old friends who I've known for decades now who are doing nothing I find worthwhile with their lives. Even though I don't want to sit around watching Star Trek, smoking pot and drinking beer for all my waking hours outside of work, I don't feel any need to shut this guy out of my life. We're still good friends (though if anyone who knows him finds this and tells him about it, he'll be pissed. But I think it's a safe bet that won't happen cause he also thinks the internet is a conspiracy.)
The friends I had before the program, I lost. And I regret that bitterly. That's one bit of Program advice I should have passed up, but it took me awhile to figure that out. By that time, all my old friends had moved on and I'd gone on in my own direction. Ya' can never go back home.
- A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
- A republic is where the sheep get to pick which wolves vote on what to have for dinner.
- But in a constitutional republic, voting on dinner is strictly
forbidden.
--A Patriot
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 13, 2005, 12:30:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 13, 2005, 04:23:00 AM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 13, 2005, 08:55:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-03-13 01:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
" you think we are all as corrupt as you. we are not.
I don't think you're corrupt at all! I think you're a kid who has been exposed to all kinds of emotional abuse and you're pretty mixed up right about now.
Quote
we dont hate our parents for sending us there.
I don't hate my parents for sending me to the abusive place I was in. They were played just like your parents have been played. My program was at the height of the 'tough love' movement, my parents thought they were doing the right thing. How wrong they were.
Quote
i have a whole yr of college behind me. good grades too.
I'm really glad to hear that, honestly I am. What kind of an education did you receive while at Whitmore?
Quote
the sudweeks and whitmore are about as perfect as yu get in this imperfect world. hey go live with sadam or somebody who thinks like you. im american and act like it. you evil person."
The "Good vs. Evil" again. Where are you getting this? Its not healthy at all to hold anyone on such a high pedestal. And now we're unAmerican???
The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918)
Post by: Anonymous on March 13, 2005, 02:34:00 PM
Charging your parents about $40,000 and lying and saying you have REAL school everyday with REAL teachers, and then withholding your kids' transcript (with is usually forged with fake grades anyway) is not a MINOR thing. This is very very important. Parents really believe kids are going to school at Whitmore and that the kids have certified teachers. Parents don't think their kids are just given credits IF CHERYL JUST WANT THEM TO HAVE THEM OR NOT! Education is a major thing! That is why your parents sent you there, or one of the reasons.
Also, what about this business of all the BAD phone calls you have been getting from Whitmore? You know Cheryl is really mad at you now.
You on here to get on her good side? This what all this is about? I worry about you.
Post by: Antigen on March 13, 2005, 02:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-12 21:30:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
Why do you choose at the minor things that the Whitmore has done and not the positive things they are doing and have done like helping me
Well, first off, I don't think that threats of violence against a couple of kids who are wittnesses in a criminal child abuse investigation are at all "minor". I take that very seriously. Second, I'm really not so sure that you kids would have been dead by now w/o help from the Sudweeks or that you have really been helped. Believe me, people said exactly the same things about Straight, Inc.; exactly the same, like we all learned it in the same school. At some points in my involvement, I believed it. You can find people posting to the Seed forum who still believe it, decades down the road.
I have a couple of reasons for being interested in this issue. For one, just personal compassion. It happened to me and my family and when I got out I didn't know how to find people who would understand, or even believe, what I'd been through. So it took me a good long while, years, to start sorting it out. Hopefully it won't take you kids that long. Maybe you can get some understanding early on and move past this more easily.
Second... no, maybe first in priority, is that this form of treatment (Therapeutic Community, btw, in case you want to research the method, how it's supposed to work and where it came from) has become the method of choice in this country. The courts have power to order people into TCs for indefinite periods of time (till staff declares them cured) and there's just very little public examination of the method and how it actually works out in the long term. I believe it's flawed at it's very base and that no one should ever be forced to endure it either by family or, especially, by the government. And I think that if people have a better understanding of what it is, they won't support it's implimentation either publicly or privately.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... miamithem' (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/040303082X/circlofmiamithem') target='_new'>H. G. Wells
Post by: Anonymous on March 13, 2005, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 13, 2005, 04:35:00 PM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 13, 2005, 07:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-13 13:35:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
I don't need the transcrips I am graduating this May anyways so i don't know what you are trying to prove.
We're not necessarily trying to prove or disprove anything. We're asking you for information since you've been there first hand. What was the education that your parents paid for?
Quote
How about doing some scripting it might help your sorry self out"
Please explain scripting to me. It sounds suspiciously similar to MIs (moral inventories) we had to write in Straight.
The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 14, 2005, 03:00:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 14, 2005, 09:43:00 AM
What is "scripting?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 14, 2005, 09:55:00 PM
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 14, 2005, 10:14:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 14, 2005, 10:17:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-14 19:14:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"well first of all you can learn how to spell my name but NO will not spare you with the scripring as everybody here can tell that you need it"
WHAT IS SCRIPTING??????????????????????
Post by: Antigen on March 14, 2005, 10:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-14 18:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"elliott please spare us all with the stupid scripting thing puuuuuulllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeze!!!!"
Well what does it mean? I'm genuinely interested in this sort of thing. Is it a Mormon thing? Maybe more of a CEDU thing? Something they came up w/ on their own? What does it mean in the context of Whitmore jargon?
Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
Post by: Anonymous on March 15, 2005, 03:33:00 AM
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 15, 2005, 08:06:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-03-15 00:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I will tell them simply put Elliot. It is a little tool that only the wise use. Its just a way to replace the negative with positive. It is usually used by people with disease or illness. But alot of us have used it to help us become whole again. Is there something wrong with that. If you have never been ill i dont expect you to understand. Most people dont. Thats why it is never pushed on anyone. "
That doesn't explain anything. What is it? How would one "script"? What is the process?
(for all you Straight survivors, sound a little like one of our "tools of personal change"? MIs. Scary isn't it? :scared: )
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet
Post by: Anonymous on March 15, 2005, 09:13:00 AM
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 17, 2005, 02:44:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2005, 11:31:00 AM
Post by: Mr. Bean on March 17, 2005, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: Erinys on March 17, 2005, 06:32:00 PM
It's just another restatement of the "positive thinking", "self talk" mantras that have been around since before us doddering old folks were born. Of course Karol is doing a great job with promotion and marketing, and "scripting" is possibly effective, but not all that unique.
Goes back to that old truism "You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar."
Well, that's true - and there's always flies on horse manure.
I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
---Albert Camus
Post by: Antigen on March 17, 2005, 06:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-03-17 13:27:00, Mr. Bean wrote:
"i would tell you but you're just too stupid to understand it :idea: how about you go to the Whitmore for a year then you will have a life and something to live for those people are great"
See, this is really bizarre, Mr. Bean. Do you really think that all but the small handful of people lucky enough to have gotten the gift of a year at Whitmore are stupid, unenlightened, have no lives?
That's what Jim Jones told his followers before he took them down to So. America. Here's how that turned out:And this is why I say do NOT leave the country w/ these people! I'm not joking here. Not trying to make some other, sly point. I mean what I'm saying just as I'm saying it. A bunch of people seem to have gone down to Nephi and are talking about getting ready to leave. At the same time, the Whitmore ppl seem to be really going `round the bend in some respects. Are they not planning on comming back?
The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs.
-- E. Grebenik
Post by: Erinys on March 17, 2005, 09:06:00 PM
The Nephi police hate the Whitmore...
The people in Canada have it in for the Sudweeks...
People in Mexico want to kill us...
Consider too, that one of the precipitating factors of the horror in Guayana was Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple coming under investigation.
I doubt the students at the Whitmore remember this story, since it happened before they were born. I hope their parents do!
I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone, I'm just here for the drugs.
--First Lady, Nancy Reagan at a Just Say No rally
Post by: Antigen on March 17, 2005, 09:57:00 PM
A very handy, convienient example of what normally happens can be found right next door in the Seed discussion forum. Those people have a LOT in common w/ Whitmore, imo. They focused on troubled teens. Most spent a year or so getting the gift of enlightenment and then went on to more or less decent adult lives. (some more or less than others) Some didn't. Some spent decades; their productive years, their would have been marrying and child rearing years; before the thing fell apart in a relatively quiet and peaceful manner. It's still quite tragic, though.
And I'll be the first to say that, from what little I know, it's probably not as bad as some other groups I've read about lately. But I just think people ought to know going in just what it is.
You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.
--Charles Austin Beard
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 17, 2005, 11:31:00 PM
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On 2005-03-17 18:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"Ok, I have to reel this in some. Looking at it again, maybe I was being a bit alarmist.
Maybe, maybe not. Stranger things have happened, but I sure don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility to question whether or not these kids are being moved out of the country for a little longer than a 'vacation' :???: .
The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.
--Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Antigen on March 18, 2005, 12:24:00 AM
The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 09:35:00 AM
BUT, the Mexico authorities will work with parents...and will allow those kids to be held against the will of the paents.
BUT there lies the problem--I suppose: What IF the Suds decide to stay down there..try to avoid the investigations still going on in Utah etc?
AND--What IF these parents--who seem to support the Suds, and continue to ignore the criminal allegations, buy into that?
Does sound scary.
From the postings here--things do seem to get out of hand for these kids when the Suds have kids off on these "trips" away from any authorities. I'd be mighty concerned, I sure would be.
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 18, 2005, 10:20:00 AM
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On 2005-03-18 06:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
--I suppose: What IF the Suds decide to stay down there..try to avoid the investigations still going on in Utah etc?
That's exactly what gives me cause for concern and SHOULD make parents think twice about this. Things have been pretty heated lately. I'm not saying they ARE going down there to keep the kids there, but it really is not that far of a stretch.
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AND--What IF these parents--who seem to support the Suds, and continue to ignore the criminal allegations, buy into that?
Does sound scary.
Yup.
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From the postings here--things do seem to get out of hand for these kids when the Suds have kids off on these "trips" away from any authorities. I'd be mighty concerned, I sure would be.Great point!...
"
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#81672 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7984&forum=35&start=20#81672)
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To reply about the cruise thing... yes a bunch of the kids did get beat up on the cruise because almost every single kid either smoked pot, got drunk, smoked cigarettes or kissed someone. A few of the kids even smuggled pot onto the boat. Cheryl also didnt have enough tickets for all of the kids so she smuggled them on too. Pretty smart huh? yeah right. There was never anyone in trouble for sex though. From what I knew the reason was for us going on the cruise cheryl just really wanted to go on one. There was never any talk of their honeymoon. Yes, they do have kids of their own, 3 daughters, 1 adopted daughter and a son. And to reply back to who ever wrote that cheryl and mark used their money to take us on the cruise, no they didnt, it was our parents money that paid for us to go on the cruise. Just think about this every parent pays $40,000 and i think its is even more now, for their kid to be in the program. Multiply that by 40 kids and well i'll just let you do the math. Anyway, I believe that they are scam artists, they scam everything everywhere.
Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 18, 2005, 07:53:00 PM
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 18, 2005, 09:27:00 PM
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
Post by: Erinys on March 18, 2005, 09:57:00 PM
The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 09:59:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 10:02:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 19, 2005, 09:06:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2005, 12:13:00 AM
We are always interested in details on the Suds.
Post by: Antigen on March 21, 2005, 01:06:00 AM
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On 2005-03-19 18:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What parent are you talking to? Where are you getting this information?"
Curious. Who would want to know that and why?
The optimist thinks that this is the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist knows it.
-- J. Robert Oppenheimer
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on March 21, 2005, 01:00:00 PM
Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world.
-- Dave Barry
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 21, 2005, 01:03:00 PM
The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 01:15:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 11:10:00 PM
TAKE ACCOUNTABILTY! :eek: it's not that bad is it?
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 11:41:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 11:20:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 05:42:00 PM
I guess it could mean a lot of different things.
Post by: Alana on March 23, 2005, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: Alana on March 23, 2005, 06:13:00 PM
I'm going. I'll be happy to fill you in - if you can take the truth.
Post by: Alana on March 23, 2005, 06:15:00 PM
Well, guess you're "uninvited" now!
Post by: Alana on March 23, 2005, 06:16:00 PM
Don't you mean "kill THEM"??? :question:
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 23, 2005, 07:05:00 PM
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On 2005-03-23 15:15:00, Alana wrote:
"Re: Parents "Secret" Group
Well, guess you're "uninvited" now!"
So, what was/is the reason for a parent group that ALL the parents of current "students" are not "invited" to?
Immortality: A toy which people cry for, And on their knees apply for, Dispute, contend and lie for, And if allowed Would be right proud Eternally to die for.
--Ambrose Bierce
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2005, 12:51:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2005, 12:53:00 AM