Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: ScorpionAngel on October 10, 2009, 02:42:33 AM
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It's not the most mature behavior out of a program staffer, I'll grant you that. lol. Of course you post it on the net and suddenly he becomes uber professional. Amazing what sunlight can do.
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It's not the most mature behavior out of a program staffer, I'll grant you that. lol. Of course you post it on the net and suddenly he becomes uber professional. Amazing what sunlight can do.
I'm having trouble understanding this. How do the Nazis figure into this conversation? Did he just bring them up apropos of nothing, out of nowhere, after calling Angela a moron also equally apropos of nothing?
Angela, please don't remove the names of former staff from the staff page. They ALL need to be included!
Thank you.
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It is clear from reading the correspondence that Bisson is the only one that is open to dialog and searching for solutions. Extending an open hand typically scares people who have only been able to attack from the shadows.
Angel why post the emails on the internet to begin with if you are interested in an honest correspondence and building a relationship based on trust? You seem to be attacking Bisson when you are the one who is clearly closing the door to communication. Posting peoples emails on open forums is not professional and says quite a bit about how you handle conflict and the organizations you represent.
Keep it in the office and work towards the goals that are set before you. This doesnt do anyone any good.
I can see why people dont readily trust fornits.com, ISAC, HEAL, Teen Advocates USA nor the information they provide.
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Mark Rosen's response is typical of industry sympathizers. He ignores the initial e-mail message in which Bisson calls Ms. Smith/HEAL a "moron" and only identifies with the invitation to dialogue. I would suggest that this avoidance of the actual cause of concern in this exchange exemplifies why Mr. Rosen should really do a bit more research or develop a more honest disposition.
Also, Bisson was "selling" a book the program is using and inviting to online "seminars" which is not an invitation to dialogue. HEAL believes in transparency and that our responses to Bisson were professional and that it is up to organizations and forums like HEAL, ISAC, fornits.com, etc. to expose what kind of manipulators are hiding behind the locked gates of the program industry.
If an industry is exposed by the Government Accountability Office and Congress as using deception as a marketing tool, should watchdog organizations trust that industry or their supporters? An intelligent person would likely answer "no".
Thank you for responding to a HEAL post.
So well put. Please post at fornits.com more often. Thank You
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Mark Rosen's response is typical of industry sympathizers. He ignores the initial e-mail message in which Bisson calls Ms. Smith/HEAL a "moron" and only identifies with the invitation to dialogue.
The typical reader would not think Bissons email was an initial contact and either do I.
I would suggest that this avoidance of the actual cause of concern in this exchange exemplifies why Mr. Rosen should really do a bit more research or develop a more honest disposition.
See above.
Also, Bisson was "selling" a book the program is using and inviting to online "seminars" which is not an invitation to dialogue.
Many people write books but still continue to research. The book itself doesn’t represent an end to thinking.
HEAL believes in transparency and that our responses to Bisson were professional and that it is up to organizations and forums like HEAL, ISAC, fornits.com, etc. to expose what kind of manipulators are hiding behind the locked gates of the program industry.
I disagree, I think placing copies of emails and correspondences on an open forum is unprofessional. This was a step that you chose
If an industry is exposed by the Government Accountability Office and Congress as using deception as a marketing tool, should watchdog organizations trust that industry or their supporters? An intelligent person would likely answer "no".
So you have closed your mind and have no intention of corresponding with anyone? Pull down the shades like posters do here on fornits and pretend it is 1978?
You sound young and at the very least you act immature. You will not be able to make any changes without addressing the issues and including opposing points of view. You are fooling yourself to think todays actions and posting are going to do anything to further your cause.
You have taken a step backwards and do not even know it.
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EXTRA SPECIAL PROTIP: If you send things that make you look stupid, with your name on them, to people who hate you, what do you think they are likely to do?
I would greatly like to go to their online seminar. How do I do that?
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That whole email exchange confuses the fuck out of me.
Firstly, whether reading bottom up or top down, I can't for the fuck of me tell what's going on. The responses don't match up to anything on either side.
Second, whats up with the nazi comparison? Is he pretty much admitting that the kids there are going to experience survivor fallout similar to what happened in concentration camps? "Dont worry, we'll teach them how to survive our fuckedupness?"
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EXTRA SPECIAL PROTIP: If you send things that make you look stupid, with your name on them, to people who hate you, what do you think they are likely to do?
If they are Mature/professional , they are likely to:
1. Ignore them
2. Take the high road and try to figure out what the issue is.
3. Work on finding common ground.
If they are immature and lack an education, they are likely to:
1. Post that persons private emails on an open forum.
2. Use foul language and make fun of them.
3. Protect you decision at all costs and sever all chances of future dialog.
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"Mark Rosen" is TheWho, no surprise there. Only he believes name-calling is professional and calm response is unprofessional. He's an idiot, basically. Is Boulder Creek an Aspen program??
What I'm confused about is how Bisson got an MEd? This guy is barely literate with the Emotional Quotient of a petulant 10 year old. What you can be sure of is that more people will now understand the program proponents' low intellect and inability to reason, even with a consenting adult. I would never send my kid to man like Bisson, who obviously shouldn't be around children.
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What I'm confused about is how Bisson got an MEd?
Ease, by studying and not spending all day on a forum trying to justify blaming their parents or a program for their shitty life. When you hit 21 and still find yourself blaming others it is time to move on and take responsibility for yourself. Get a job or go back to school for your masters degree. Call your parents (and siblings) and appologize for being a selfish shit and forcing them to spend their hard earned retirement money to whip you back into shape.
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Above response makes no sense. What I want to know is are they giving MEd's in Cracker Jack boxes in Idaho now? This guy is functionally illiterate. And on what basis does he counsel children? No degree or license for this guy to be working in therapy.
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Above response makes no sense.
Of course it doesnt. The person didnt respond in text language.
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What I'm confused about is how Bisson got an MEd?
Ease, by studying and not spending all day on a forum trying to justify blaming their parents or a program for their shitty life. When you hit 21 and still find yourself blaming others it is time to move on and take responsibility for yourself. Get a job or go back to school for your masters degree. Call your parents (and siblings) and appologize for being a selfish shit and forcing them to spend their hard earned retirement money to whip you back into shape.
Above response makes no sense.
Here, I think you are use to this language:
eeZ, by swating nor spendin ll dy on a 4rum tryiN 2 justify blaming their parNts or a prog 4 their shitty lyf. wen u hit 21 n stil fnd yrslf blaming othas itz tym 2 mve on n taK responsibility 4 yrslf. gt a job or go b2 skool 4 yr masters Dgre. cll yr parNts (and siblings) n appologize 4 bn a selfish sht n forcing em 2 SPND their hrdErnD retirement $ 2 wip u bac N2 Shape.
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That proves it. Bisson is the anon poster. I don't think anyone could be that illiterate and work anywhere BUT for a program. Seriously though, this guy seems to be a complete moron, totally unprofessional and has just drawn the attention of many people who he would not want looking into his business and exposing him further for the idiot he is. Oops! Too late...
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claude Bisson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:50 PM
> Subject: Boulder Creek Academy in ID Staff Information
>
>
>> Try checking out our bios on the school home page you moron.......
>>
Whoops, this guest just blew it with that post. I guess we can all see that the info posted here wasnt Claude Bisson at all but an anon poster posing as him.
That proves it. Bisson is the anon poster. I don't think anyone could be that illiterate and work anywhere BUT for a program. Seriously though, this guy seems to be a complete moron, totally unprofessional and has just drawn the attention of many people who he would not want looking into his business and exposing him further for the idiot he is. Oops! Too late
It was only a matter of time before we discovered that it was a smear campaign. So typical.
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That proves it. Bisson is the anon poster. I don't think anyone could be that illiterate and work anywhere BUT for a program. Seriously though, this guy seems to be a complete moron, totally unprofessional and has just drawn the attention of many people who he would not want looking into his business and exposing him further for the idiot he is. Oops! Too late...
Mail order, maybe? Lols. This man is a bit more than strange.
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The programmies are always the last ones to figure everything out. Of course it wasnt Claude Bisson, its slow over at Heal.
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I apologize. I missed a legitimate inquiry above. Many of the CEDU programs were bought by and continue operating under Aspen Education Group. The director of Boulder Creek also worked for Rocky Mountain Academy (RMA--another cult-program). Boulder Creek Academy is owned by Universal Health Services (UHS). UHS is also the current owner of the notoriously abusive Provo Canyon School in Utah (see: http://http://www.provotruthexposed.com). I've heard that RMA alumni have gone on to work in the industry. Some have worked for Transitions and a couple other behavior modification programs.
This is too funny, LOL, So they are all cults, Gulags and are very evil and abusive, kidnap and torture kids with water boarding and chinese tortures etc.... do you really believe that parents buy into your arguments? Even for a minute? Have you ever had a conversation with an adult recently? If you did and you said to them:
My friend was kidnapped by torturers and is being detained in a gulag in Utah by a cult and is being brainwashed and waterboarded as we speak.... what do you think the adult in this converstion is going to think? What are the odds of them calling the police?
Its funny how you buy into each others stories but no one ever calls the police... do you think this could be a hint? Has anyone ever thought of this before?
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The police do not recognize the criminality of abduction and imprisonment when it is committed by "help" groups.
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July ... laug04.msp (http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp)
Even when people over 18 are kidnapped and imprisoned, criminal charges never are pursued by law enforcement. Lulu Corter was held prisoner until she was 26.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/strai ... ght62.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/straight/straight62.html)
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... 19war.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060219/news_lz1v19war.html)
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The police do not recognize the criminality of abduction and imprisonment when it is committed by "help" groups.
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July ... laug04.msp (http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp)
Even when people over 18 are kidnapped and imprisoned, criminal charges never are pursued by law enforcement. Lulu Corter was held prisoner until she was 26.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/strai ... ght62.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/straight/straight62.html)
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... 19war.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060219/news_lz1v19war.html)
Wow, you have really convinced yourself that kidnappings do occur and the police do nothing about it. The more successful the programs become the more ingrained the denial here becomes.
The programs are just highly structured schools. If you want out bad enough just break a few rules and wala you are kicked out. no cult, no kidnapping, no imprisionment. The ones that get kicked out lose out, thats the reality of it.
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It sho' is gettin' hot in heah.
Im gonna have to wet down the walls soon.
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CEDU tortures detainees for breaking rules. To leave CEDU escaping was necessary.
Two of the escapees who have never been found are listed here:
http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.p ... 2&Itemid=1 (http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=7&sobi2Id=992&Itemid=1)
Leaving, other than through escape, was not possible for CEDU prisoners. "breaking rules" resulted in torture.
Some sworn testimony of torture are listed here:
http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm)
Within 1 hour, I found myself standing in a room with Mr. & Mrs. Wasserman, and Michael Allgood. I was told that Michael would be my "family head" and if I had any questions or problems he would be in charge of it all. I then, was taken into a room, and was told to sit in a chair while they cut my hair. They cut my hair to where it was just a few inches short., They took my clothes and only left me with a few pair of pants and tops and sent the rest back with my social worker. The reason I told for this was to "break your Image". I was then taken into a room and a Nurse? examined me , and then I was told to shower. I had never been in any place like this before, so I was already afraid. I was told I couldn't write or see any family members for at least 3-6 months depending on if I followed the rules. I hadnt been there much more than a few hours and I was called into a "Rap" session, there was probably 20 people at least in there, they were all yelling and screaming at each other, and I sat there just startled. All of a sudden Michael Allgood started yelling at me, stating that I was not going to sit in these sessions and not speak, I told him, that this was all "new" to me, and he said if you want to make it here, you will do what you are told, I started to cry, and told him that I didn't want to stay, and he told me that my family didn't want me, that's why they dumped me there, and he said, the only reason why they took me was for the money they would get from the county. He called me a lesbian, at the time I had no clue, that I was, and he said he thought I would learn to like it there real quick. I was only 15 at the time, and just lost my mother, so all of this was pretty scary, considering this was just the first day there. I learned to adjust, to play the game. and prayed that I would not get in Michaels way. he was very verbally abusive with me and it never got better. I eventually somehow, figured out to ask for a different family head over time. I finally got John Stallone, he was basically the closest person there with some sense of caring. I dont recall bad times with john. They had these rap Sessions that would last like 2 days they were called "profeets" there would be a group maybe like 20 -25 people and they would lock you in this room with 2 or 3 counselors, and they would play very Loud music continously, this would go on and on, and they would yell, and tell you how fucked up you were, and you were useless, and would never amount to anything in life, a lot of the kids and adults there were either court placed some private placed, and most of them were drug abusers. I never did drugs, until after I left Cedu. they would continue this until someone would emotionally snap, once you did, they would move on to the next person, once in a profeet they made a black boy wash Michaels feet. Michael thought he was like God , he called him the N word while this person washed his feet. They would accuse the boys of performing beastility acts on the animals, I dont know for fact if that happened but I was told it did as a punishement for the boys. I was blamed for my mother's death. I actually grew up after that believing that my actions as a Teen caused her to die, when in all reality, I was acting out because when I was 5yrs old, i was in a foster home, and was molested continually. I never said anything, until it was too late. We would remain in these Profeets until everyone snapped and I never recall any food in there, we did get bathroom breaks and water breaks. They said the less we had in our bodies made it easier for them to "cleanse" our souls. I guess when you are that young you will believe anything. The Dorm Leaders, were usually someone who had been there for quite some time. Most of the female ones were lesbian. Well, a lot of the girls were Lesbians. That's where I had my first Lesbian experience, with my dorm leader. If you were straight, you could get what they called your "Fucking Privledges" if you were interested with someone at least 6 months, and if you got past that, you would be allowed to have your privledges at 1 year. However, that rule didn't seem to matter with the staff. I know of cases where Rudy Bentz? had his "special" or favorite girls, if you wanted special trips to town, or pribledges you just had to know the right person to get what you wanted. Gay or straight. They had this one punishement called "dishpan Dishpan was for those who either did something really wrong, or if you tried to split, and got caught, or got away and had to re enter cedu, oh, and when that happened that meant the boys got their head completely shaved, the girls hair was whacked, all uneven. I got put on dishpan I think 2 or 3 times, the longest period I was on was for 2 weeks but usually it ws just a 2 or 3 day thing. When you were on dish pan you would work where ever they wanted to put you, I once had to clean all the bathrooms, with a sign around my neck saying " I AM POISON" that was Allgood's doing. When I did the bathrooms I had to use buckets of bleach, and a toothbrush. When someone would have to come use the bathroom, and Mike noticed, I would have to start all over. No one could talk to you and you could not talk to anyone. except family heads or counselors, and only if you were spoken to. The hours were like from 6am to 11pm you had to eat by yourself and quickly at that. there was NO breaks. One Dishpan I was on, I had to take all the trash out of one of those industrial size trashcans, climb in clean it with a tooth brush, then put the trash back in, another time I had to use a tootbrush on all the pool tiles and do the kitchen floors the same way, on your hands and knees. When I was on my last dishpan My hands were cracked and bleeding from all the bleach, and i would have to keep putting my hands in the bleach, I finally just couldn't feel them in the end. After that dishpan I got kicked out, and that was the happiest day of my life. They drove me in the middle of the night to some apt in reche canyon, we were there for about 1 hour, I dont know what they were doing they locked me in the car with a counselor, when they came out they drove me to my sisters in LA and just dropped me off in front of her house and left, it was like midnight. Thank God, they were home. When I was at CEDU Mel wasserman used to send probably like a van load of us down to anaheim, san bernaardino, and surrounding shopping centers, and have us all out in the parking lots approaching people asking them for money. We were told to them that we would be closed down if we didn't raise money for a new fire alarm system. I did this for a few months, we would give them a raffle ticket, to what I have NO clue, but I remember when we got back to the lodge we would have to count up all the money, and I remember it being thousands of dollars, and sure enough we would be out the next day, only at a new shopping center, i remember going close to Los Angeles, and once thought I was so close to home, but I think by that time, I was starting to believe in CEDU. In other words I was becoming like the rest of them....brainwashed. I never even noticed if they had a fire alarm system or not. The worst things I can remember is the verbal abuse, the sex acts, and if you even mentioned it was something that you didn't want to be involved in you were told you would get sent to Juvenile Hall, some faced prison sentences, or they would threaten you with somewhere much worse. The Wassermans would eat in the living quarters at the time overlooked San Bernardino, I remember how they would order steak dinners and we would have to serve them, while we ate food which was donated, from the places we were out begging for money from. This is just a touch of what I went through at Cedu, I know so much more, and went through so much more. I know of one kid who lived in Las Vegas that actually took his life when we went home, because they said he couldn't deal with life anymore after CEDU. They ran CEDU from what I understand a lot like the old Synanon in Santa Monica, CA. In fact some of the older people who were there were from Synanon, and even the counselors, we had one guy who was a Sniper from NYC He was hired as a counselor. Nice Huh? I ended up living with a counselor who was fired eventually, she was the one who turned me out into the Lesbian lifestyle. So much to tell, I could go on and on, this is just minor things. I would really be interested in that documentary, I would think it would be interesting to have someone who was there in 1973 comparing what they went through with the same people all the ways into the late 1980s & 1990s and better yet, find out why these people who are still alive an well are allowed to continue to work and arent behind bars, where they deserve to be for totally destroying kids lifes for the past 30 plus years. I would like to know how they got away with this? I would like to know who is going to help all of these people they mentally messed up? I know my life has never been the same. I cant imagine the younger kids how they must be coping. Please keep in contact with me, I want to see this through to the end!
The torture, kidnap, imprisonment, murder continued until CEDU was shut down under pressure of lawsuits and criminal investigation in the mid 2000s.
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I must say I am a bit lost at where this conversation has gone. But, I stand by every statement I've made. Is Mark Rosen a potato farmer?
The only one thing we've ever agreed upon is this.
wtf are you people yakking about?
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http://I must say I am a bit lost at where this conversation has gone.
This part here. I gave up speculating about the whooter a long time ago. Better for my brain cell count that way.
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What I'm confused about is how Bisson got an MEd?
Ease, by studying and not spending all day on a forum trying to justify blaming their parents or a program for their shitty life. When you hit 21 and still find yourself blaming others it is time to move on and take responsibility for yourself. Get a job or go back to school for your masters degree. Call your parents (and siblings) and appologize for being a selfish shit and forcing them to spend their hard earned retirement money to whip you back into shape.
:twofinger: Hey, I've got an idea; How about you put your keyboard away and shut the fuck up. Just a thought..................