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Messages - maruska

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16
Open Free for All / Morgan
« on: September 07, 2010, 10:05:01 AM »
http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... rgan_Gauss

 I have not yet been placed in a "character building school/wilderness program/boot camp/gay re-education camp/or a therapeutic boarding school" but as of today I am packing to be placed in the later. Basically, Monday I will be expected to walk into a therapeutic/troubled teen boarding school titled "Academy at Sisters" - which is in Bend, Oregon. So far I have heard nothing but bad things of this school. Facebook groups of survivors have said that it's "taken their hopes and dreams, and replaced them with skills only to be used by housewives," and have claimed that, "it took away our basic rights, and forced us to learn nothing but compliance." My parents think it is a good idea to send me here, however, I disagree to the highest extent. I have done nothing wrong. Sure, In my past I've made mistakes, but whom hasn't? I have never done drugs, stolen, lied to the extent that it has caused me/others harm.. None of the things that the AAS advertises it shall help with. Why am I posting a testimony? Because I want this to be here for someone to edit while I'm in the program. Because I want someone to see that I had a level head about me before I left. I still have hopes, dreams, and ambitions, and I want that documented before it's gone.

I don't want to be added to the list of survivors. I don't want to have to try and survive it at all.

17
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Academy at Sisters
« on: July 11, 2010, 09:24:42 AM »
I do not know if Morgan´s parents are going to read this, but I will try ...

I am  a mother of two and my daughter put me through hell during her teenage years.
She is 18 now...and a great young woman . Three years ago? I cannot describe how difficult she was...She was rebelious, no interest in her education, she tried pot and other drugs, she hang out with the wrong crowd. She refused counseling.

It was such a difficult time for our family...but you know what? We made it. Without a program. We just...were parents and did our job. It was not easy. But it was soooo worth it. For some reason she had to through all this...and we were there...every day, every hour of her life...we were there...

She is heading for University next year .

So please, give your family a chance...because if you send her away, you will miss out on so much, on the most important years of her development. You will never get this time back. The gap will remain in your life...It is up to you. I wish you all the best.

18
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 15, 2010, 05:31:30 PM »
I do not want to make this to a pissing contest , but this is interesting reading too:

http://www.americansmadandangry.org/



and the blogs, Whooter...pretty pretty please:))

and I really do not understand this (from your conversation with Ursus):
I have experienced someone being hurt severely and it did taint my recollection of my time there. It was a terrible summer. But the difference between you and me is I can see that other kids in my group had a good time....what are talking about here?!.."my time there"? does that mean you were in a program, too?? ..as a staff?

19
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Denmark - special need students back among their peers
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:42:32 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
Remedial schools eat up third of education budget, The Copenhagen Post

Right now Denmark is rebuilding its education system. We have tried to adapt the US-model where unruly or special need students are removed from the general student population and place them in special classes. It turned out that it was not only expensive, it was also not the best choice for the rest of the student population. Denmark hit rock bottom in the PISA survey where students are measured worldwide on their knownledge.

So we took a look at Finland, which is second to none in all areas. What did they do in order to be up there?

The answer is that they kept all their students together regardless if they are good or bad. Instead they stopped being only one teacher in the classroom. Often they have up to three teachers in one class. The main teacher, an assistant and sometime a pensioner who functions as a personal coach for students with needs.

Removing the special classes for students with special need and behavioral problems will save a lot of money and benefit the entire education system. Finland has shown the way.


Interesting reading about the Finish miracle

http://www.greatschools.org/students/fi ... 3&page=all

20
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "maruska"
I love to read blogs about this topic. Would you send me some links ? That would be lovely!

And which programs do you consider good and which are not? I must admit I find in every program something that bothers me to the point I would never send my child there , so I wonder.
I know exactly what you mean.  If I didn’t have a need for programs I would never send my child to one.  Take hospitals for example, people get all types of diseases from blood transfusions, viruses in operating rooms and germs on the waiting room.  I don’t think I could find one hospital in the country I would want any of my family members in.  But if I were faced with the decision of having to take them to one I would do it.
I tried getting people interested in rating programs here on fornits but no one was interested and many got outright upset when I posted programs I thought were good.  So I will take a pass on naming any for both out sakes.  As far as the blogs go I don’t keep a list of favorites.   I sometimes google a program name or key word and discover blogs that way.

Quote
Also when you write that your daughter connected with lots people on a reunion site for ASR...does that mean she did not maintain that friendship with her peers after she left ASR? (In my country we have a very strong bond with our classmates , because we usually attend school together for many years and the friendships last a life time:)
There were a few that she has kept in contact with, but with this facebook program that she uses she has connected with lots of people she lost touch with including staff.  This also gave her an opportunity to meet other people who went thru ASR who she never met before.



Quote
And lastly...what is DJ talking about? What " fiduciary interest in Aspen, his ties to RMA in the 1990's and his TTI meeting in Chicago concerning 'where the real money is, the TBS industry ? " What does that mean?
Ha,Ha,Ha oh boy, you will have to go speak to DJ about that.  If you look at the bottom of his posts you will see he has created a little altar (tongue in cheek) to me in his footer.  His project is my history here on fornits and trying to make his own sense out of various sound bites I have made over the years.  I couldn’t begin to explain them here for you because I dont remember most of them, but if you are interested you can go back and read via DJ’s links in his footer (just click on one).  But you need to go back several pages to understand the gist of the conversation so that they are understood in context if that interests you.



...

You could not find one hospital in the country you would want any of your family members in?  I am sorry to hear that. I did not know the US health system is so terrible...move to Europe! You will find plenty of great hospitals here!

As far as blogs...come one! Please, name a few! I really am not as good at finding them obviously  Thanks in advance!

And regarding going back several pages, I do not have time for that...

21
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: Yes, you got it! It's either THAT, or it's *not* THAT!
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:19:16 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Classic Whooter-style: derail the difficult questions by attacking the questioner with attempts at invalidating their experience or perspective.

Sorry, Whooter, I really don't need to believe anything, and whichever way it was or is ... is not going to "shake my world too much" one way or another at this point. It is what it is, and perhaps it's time that you came to terms with the fact that the propaganda that you spew is not a harmless moneymaker or stock price booster but in fact, fraudulent advertising for programs that affect some kids and their families in very real, tangible, and not in the least bit beneficial ways. And sometimes, with all too fatal consequences.
That was nice, Ursus, but we both know there is no propaganda being spewed and there is no intent to derail the thread.  This is your interpretation of information which goes against your thinking.  Again with the fatal consequences.  I am sure if this were public school you would be showing us photos of columbine high School trying to convince us that kids will die if you send them to public school.

Quote
One really has to wonder about what sort of life lessons these kids' peers learn, the ones who ostensibly "do well in programs and move on with their lives."

I dunno 'bout you, but if a peer of mine in program were to die or even to suffer long term trauma as a direct result of the "programming" we were subjected to... it wouldn't matter how "great" a time I had, the experience would be seriously tainted for me.

And if I had any kind of moral backbone in me, I would probably begin to seriously QUESTION the veracity of said methodologies used. And probably also the ideology behind it as well, as I got in deeper. Doncha think?

Or does it simply boil down to a question of dollars and cents for you? Or, perhaps, a rationalization of your own now irrevocable choices made in the past?

Credo of behavioral and mental health professionals: First, Do No Harm.
I have experienced someone being hurt severely and it did taint my recollection of my time there.  It was a terrible summer.  But the difference between you and me  is I can see that other kids in my group had a good time.   The terrible event didn’t warp my entire perception on life.  You stated yourself that you cannot relate at all to all these kids who do well in programs and you cannot understand what life lesson they learn.  This is a short coming of yours (not mine or everyone else’s) or the children being helped.

I think it is good that you dig in and find out why your friend was hurt so bad and try to prevent others from getting hurt too.  But you need to gather more wide spread data, more of a balance so that you get a better perspective on what you are fighting.  You have reduced yourself to a point that you can discard a program if an employee worked previously at CEDU or you can toss aside a software program because IBM did business with the Germans in 1937.  This shows you are not really interested in finding the truth about how these individual programs work rather you just want a reason not to look too closely.  I think the reason for this is you will have to admit that they are graduating kids who are doing really well and the ones that don’t do well are the anomaly.

I am also curious as to why would you not acknowledge that it is a good step for a program to open up a discussion with alumnus to gather feedback on the program?  I know from reading here on fornits that this would be a big step for a cult.  What is everyone afraid of?  Are you afraid that you will find out that these are not the big bad programs that you have created here on the forum?



...

Now I am confused again...would you explain what are you talking about?
 Did you work for a program? Or were you in a program as a child?

22
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 10, 2010, 11:39:01 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "maruska"
I thought you are just a program parent and talking just about your own experience with your daughter.....can you tell me more? where did you see all those kids?

Sorry about all the trolls here today.  I did miss your post, but your posts are one of the ones that I follow because you seem to be more open minded and accepting than most here,  so I would have responded eventually.
I mainly talk about the kids my daughter and I met while she was in wilderness and at ASR.  But I also have seen stories from others (outside fornits) who talk on their blogs about their experiences.  My daughter has connected with lots people on a reunion site for ASR which spans several peer groups.  I have read blogs and facebook posts of kids who did not do well also from several programs.  So I have seen both sides of the coin so to speak.

One can really gain a sense of which programs are good and which are not by looking at perspectives and I find that interesting.



...

I love to read blogs about this topic. Would you send me some links ? That would be lovely!

And which programs do you consider good and which are not? I must admit I find in every program something that bothers me to the point I would never send my child there , so I wonder.

Also when you write that your daughter connected with lots people on a reunion site for ASR...does that mean she did not maintain that friendship with her peers after she left ASR? (In my country we have a very strong bond with our classmates , because we usually attend school together for many years and the friendships last a life time:)


And lastly...what is DJ talking about?  What " fiduciary interest in Aspen, his ties to RMA in the 1990's and his TTI meeting in Chicago concerning 'where the real money is, the TBS industry ? "   What does that mean?

23
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 10, 2010, 10:51:24 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "maruska"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Samara"
You are right. We wouldn't know what its like to be a program parent. Because we don't stick our kids in programs.

Of course you didn’t.  The overwhelming majority of  people don’t have to.  Just like my other kids, they get through the tough patches on their own along with good parenting.

Quote
But what we do know is how effectively programs BS parents. We know that quite well.

Until you have spoken to kids (and their parents) who have been helped by programs then you don’t have sufficient information to conclude that. I have seen the marketing and kids who failed and kids who did well so I have a better perspective on whether or not the programs BS or not.
You have the disadvantage of seeing it from a kids perspective and then only those kids who didn’t do well which is only one facet.  



...

I thought you are just a program parent and talking just about your own experience with your daughter.....can you tell me more? where did you see all those kids?

Notice, maruska, how Whooter completely avoided your very good question in order to attack Anne instead.  He feels he can win that one, but answering your question will only expose him for what he really is - a shill and phony "regular parent."  This is just another example of how Whooter gets trapped in his own lies and then just tries to ignore it and pretend it never happened.


:) Oh no, I think he needs just a little more time to respond:) ...I am sure he will respond..

 Whooter?

24
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 10, 2010, 10:04:44 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Samara"
You are right. We wouldn't know what its like to be a program parent. Because we don't stick our kids in programs.

Of course you didn’t.  The overwhelming majority of  people don’t have to.  Just like my other kids, they get through the tough patches on their own along with good parenting.

Quote
But what we do know is how effectively programs BS parents. We know that quite well.

Until you have spoken to kids (and their parents) who have been helped by programs then you don’t have sufficient information to conclude that. I have seen the marketing and kids who failed and kids who did well so I have a better perspective on whether or not the programs BS or not.
You have the disadvantage of seeing it from a kids perspective and then only those kids who didn’t do well which is only one facet.  



...

I thought you are just a program parent and talking just about your own experience with your daughter.....can you tell me more? where did you see all those kids?

25
Open Free for All / Thank you, Fornits!
« on: June 10, 2010, 05:42:20 AM »
I found Fornits a couple of years ago. We were going through a very hard phase with our daughter and I was looking for solutions and I was interested to know, how other people survive teenage years of their children:) I found all those glossy program sites and learned, that my daughter would qualify for most of them. The programs looked interesting, even tempting:) I never knew before such programs existed, because we do not have them in Europe. On the surface everything looked so great, so logical...Then my friend told me about an American program that was opened in our country and closed due to child abuse after a couple of months....you would not send your daughter to such a place, are you crazy or what ?! she told me:)
 Child abuse?! I started to digg deeper.And then I found Fornits and  started reading....

All survivors who shared their stories helped me to better understand my daughter. And by learning more about programs I realized what I am doing wrong in our own home, for example that restrictions and punishments are a road to hell ...So this place has been therapeutic for me too.

Trust me, I can understand the parents desperation when you think you are losing your child and everything you try is in vain...To this day I am not sure why her puberty was so difficult. I can only guess: maybe I was too overprotective and she needed more space. Maybe she needed to rebel against everything just to find her own way . Maybe I pressured her too hard to see the world as I see it...maybe.
Today is my daughter 18 and I am so proud of her! She matured, she is amazing, she is talented and beautiful, a free spirit. I see the young woman she is becoming and I love what I see. She went through a difficult time  and we all survived as a family and we learned so much becase of  her, our family is stronger and closer today then ever. She changed...and we did,too. We are a living example that you can do it without a program:))
 

So I want to thank you all: all the survivors, all the people who come to Fornits and post. I am grateful to you.

26
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: does residential really help and which one is good
« on: June 09, 2010, 04:16:30 PM »
Come on,Whooter,  you cannot be serious!

 Don´t you see the difference?



Samara, did your parents learn the truth ...ever?

27
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: does residential really help and which one is good
« on: June 09, 2010, 04:00:17 PM »
Did the parents know?

28
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: does residential really help and which one is good
« on: June 09, 2010, 03:29:23 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Of course it says that, Ursus.  Kids stay in programs day after day after day, night after night after night.  Search the web for any reference you choose.  It was a nice back peddle, though, and a good try to cover for Anne.

But the topic we were talking about and the post we were referencing was this one.

Link

Quote
Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."

Just to be clear this isn’t night , after, night, after night, no matter how you read it or spin it.  Its one overnight and they get to sleep from 5 till 7 then finished up around 2 in the afternoon.

Its a clear example of how things get embellished here.   If I didnt call you on this the story would grow into a week with no sleep, food or water lol



...


OMG...19 or 20 hours without sleep??  


THAT is abuse. End of story..

I do not think the police can use such a tactic here with criminals...and we are speaking about children!

29
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: does residential really help and which one is good
« on: June 09, 2010, 09:15:57 AM »
I see. Well I had many sleepless nights thinking about why my daughter had such a difficult puberty. (My son was a piece of cake in comparisson LOL).
I did not find the answer to that . I only did what I felt was right and made many mistakes on the way...but we did succeed. At least I hope, she is 18 so there is still a lot of growing up to do. But I did not give up on her, that was the foundation to our relationship today...
And I was never alone in this - my husband, my friends, without them I would be lost.



You know, I wonder how did the previous generations raise their children? I mean before this industry became so popular in the USA.

30
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
« on: June 09, 2010, 08:42:14 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "maruska"
Are you saying that you do not have kids who are living in the streets, in jail and who have died from drugs, neglect etc ? Really?
I think you mentioned somewhere here on Fornits the number of children living in the street in the USA, and it was a shocking high number.

So ...I really do not understand where are you going with this?

Quote from: "maruska"


And you know this how? Do you want to compare notes whose daughter was more at risk? LOL

I know you do not want to hear that , but it is possible to raise children without this industry. And succesfully.
Otherwise all European teenagers would be dead or in jail...they are not, trust me on that:)


Oh, no doubt, Maruska.  Approx. 99.999% of our teenagers are raised without the help of programs and we do a good job here.   You have kids in Europe who are living in the streets, in jail and who have died from drugs, neglect etc. like most other countries.  So your raising kids at home method (without the help of the industry) is not 100% successful.  I think we can agree there anyway.


Until 100% of the kids are safe then we need to keep finding solutions.  Raising kids at home and not seeking outside is not 100% effective.






...


I could agree with that. When help is needed , it should be (and it is)  available.


I am afraid we do not agree what HELP means:)

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