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Messages - Matt C. Hoffman

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Elan / Re: Elan was protected by state officials
« on: January 29, 2015, 10:24:44 PM »
Apparently- I have  made a mistake in assuming that Oscar was being " misleading" as to where Mr. Gutfinski's comment came from - I believe you Aaron, and I will take you at your word because I don't read or post on reddit anymore  -sorry it is what it is.

Therefore Oscar I am sorry for implying that you were being misleading as to where that comment originally came from, I hope you can over look my assumption -  and that we all know it  was posted on Felice's video.

Mr. Gutfinski,  I might add also posted it on Bill Diamond's amazon book page , the review section comments  of  Bill Diamond's book called " the evil and the innocent "

He has also posted it on  the NBC  reports Video about Elan  called " For the Childs Own Good"  in the comment section of the  video on you tube, and other places like the Bangor Daily News web site. 

It is a serious comment considering its implications and it is very validating for Elan survivors.

I apologize again to  Oscar.



Elan / Re: Elan was protected by state officials
« on: January 21, 2015, 05:42:32 AM »
Actually Oscar / H - it was posted by Mr. Gutfinski on Felice Eliscu's video found on You  entitled "Elan School ".  That is where the original post/comment  came from as a matter of fact - Mr. Gutfinski posted this about 21 hours ago on  Felice Eliscu's You -tube video . Here is the link for Felice's video

It is funny in a sense because it is what Elan survivors have known for a long time about Bill Diamond - and the Elan cabal - Oscar you can find comments pertaining to  Bill Diamond and Elan concerning this very topic - going back in the early days of this very forum -  Dec 15th  2001.

Now maybe you will get around to posting this in the Elan forum on this site  -where  this actually  belongs. And please start giving accurate information - as to where this quote originally came from  - it does a  disservice to Elan survivors who have worked so very hard to expose and thus close that hell -hole down.

Survivors of Elan did close Elan  down -no doubt about that .

And now we work to seek justice for the survivors of Elan - as we seek to put the elan cabal in prison - those are the people that not only ran Elan - those are also the people  that aided, abetted and protected Elan as it ran in my opinion as a continuing criminal enterprise that lasted for close to forty years .

No worries Oscar/H  just keeping it real as to where the comment you posted -originally came from -  You know Oscar you might find if you really look that there is a lot of information posted about Elan on this very subject - right on this very site -

Of course Elan was protected - how do you think it survived as it ran in my opinion as a continuing criminal enterprise that lasted for close to forty years - what do you think survivors have been saying since 2001 and still say to this very day.

I am an Elan survivor, 74 to 76,  and believe me when I say it - we pay attention- and it is important to us that we  keep the facts straight- as how it pertains to Elan  - you give the impression that it was posted by Mr. Gutfinski on another web site by him  - which is just not true- as you well now know.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify this matter - one question about Mr Gutfinski  for you Oscar ( love the mans name- Gutfinski )  are you really surprised by this person's  comment?  I mean it is not like Elan survivors haven't been saying this for years - What is ironic is that cult expert Paul Morantz stated that if " Charles Dederich (the founder and creator of the cult Synanon ) had the same protection as Joe Ricci - that Dederich would have died a king"

link provided  below for the Paul Morantz quote

Public Sector Gulags / Re: Ironwood: New Facility in Maine
« on: September 29, 2014, 04:06:37 PM » -

Here is the follow up to the second part of the pedophiles- in power - in the state of Maine - This story concerns Andrew Demers -who happened to be a very good friend of Bill Diamond -

Bill Diamond in my opinion is one of the sleaze ball politicians who aided and abetted (and protected ) the Elan corporation/school - as it ran in my opinion as a continueing criminal enterprise that lasted for close to forty years.

Bill Diamond in my opinion is also a fraud who wrote a book called "the Evil and the Innocent - It can be found on - please don't buy it -though read the reviews -quite telling.

Mister Diamonds pontifacations on his friend Andrew Demers jr. ;

Former state Sen. Bill Diamond of Windham said that when he served as Secretary of State from 1989 to 1997, he had come to know Demers, who was then chief. Diamond, who recently published “The Evil & The Innocent,” a non-fiction book about child sex offenders, said that when it came to Demers, “I was just as naïve as the next guy.”

“You would never have guessed,” Diamond said. “Of course part of that is the role that he played. You automatically assume that somebody in that position is trustworthy and has high integrity.”

Diamond said that Demers’ victim would likely suffer for a long time to come.

“This poor little thing is old enough to remember some of these things, and you just worry what this little child has gone through and will go through,” he said. “It’s going to require a lot of help."

I believe the good citizens  of Maine have been bamboozoled by Mister Diamond -as they would never have guessed as Diamond says - "you automatically assume that somebody in that position is trustworthy and has high integrity" - I certainly believe Mister  Diamond could  be speaking about himself. The survivors of Elan certainly know that sexual abuse happened in Elan - 

There may be hope for Mister Bill Diamond  during his rehabilitation (thru life- hopefully long life   incarceration) though I doubt it ( the ability to rehabilitate Mister Diamond )  - because in the article he regurgitates well known data as he spouts that the child who has been abused "will require a lot of help"

Elan survivors only know this fact all too well.

I reiterate my belief that Mister Bill Diamond is a fraud - becase he has done nothing to assit the chronically abused of Elan, sadistic  criminal abuse that occured for over forty years  - he has done nothing for the survivors of Elan  - quite to the contrary- he has protected Elan and "made sure that Elan got favorable inspection reports" ( quote from his interview for the updated book - Duck in a Raincoat book by Maura Curley.

And look at the company he keeps, I would suggest to Mister Bill Diamond  that he abandon his announced goal of this past Jan 16, 2014 of running for Maine state senate office (again).

The good citizens of Maine deserve better -and will soon know the truth about  Bill Diamond-



Wow the titans in my opinion of the defenders and protectors of the violent, brutal, sadistic, soul eating hell-hole known as Elan.

Ed was the lawyer for Elan ( Joe Ricci) and the lawyer for Sharon( Scarbrough Downs, and  Elan when she onwed it ) and well we all know about mister Bill Diamond. 

Bill grinning like a fool - that is about to waste a whole bunch of money -wonder how much money is in that envelope.

Bill it is certainly not enough( money) to wash the blood and tears and death from your hands for aiding and abetting Elan to exist in my opinion as a criminal enterprise that lasted for almost forty years.

Nice picture- the only three missing are Martin Kruglik ,Jeffery Gottlieb, and Sharon Terry - then you would have the entire Elan cabal.-a high straight flush, in my opinion, of serial sadistic criminal child abusers.

Survivors of Elan  know what they have done -and we are here. 

"For the Child's Own Good” ( hahahaha) -Well maybe not for the children trapped in Elan - though it certainly was good for the pockets of Joe Ricci and Dr. Gerald Davidson- speaking of Davidson - Funny how he reminds me ( from this video ) of Martini from the movie "Cuckoo's Nest ".

Staged as all get out - Ricci was a pro when it came to “controlling the floor show” - what he wanted shown about Elan - I wonder why?


Did Joe Ricci know that if NBC and Robert Rogers had portrayed Elan truthfully that his magnificent scam and golden cash cow would have been slaughtered-exposed, and that he and his henchmen that helped him run it would have gone to prison?

- I think Joe Ricci knew what his Elan and employees were doing to children was in fact criminal - yet the money Elan was making Joe was really the only thing that mattered to him - therefore he had to lie about his Elan (as evidenced by this video and the other one "Children of Darkness”) -because it was really a continuing criminal enterprise that ran for close to forty years.

The general meeting -lol- depicted in this film is more like a “ haircut " ( a verbal reprimand ) during my time -and this video was filmed 3 years after I left – 1979  by NBC reports. - as my wife said it (Elan) should have been closed after this video aired -

Ricci indicts and contradicts himself many times - funny how he states the ring is not a ring and then in the same breathe states that in this corner we have the bully and he is introduced as the bully and then in this ...we have the house champion(s) and the bully never wins -why was Elan allowed to continue to exist after this film is beyond my comprehension-

Ricci actually states " the game " -a direct reference to Synanon - a cult that was shut down in 1991- A cult started in 1958 by Charles Dederich, that treated its hardened drug addicted clients /adherents with “the game”- It is funny to me  how Elan wasn't even  Ricci's own idea- though he did put his sick twisted spin on an old idea ( Synanon). Joe Ricci did make serious bank (money) by having his henchmen that ran his Elan, criminally and sadistically, abuse the living  daylights out of children and adults ( when I was there ) by directing those very  children to do the brutal, sadistic, violent abuse to each other - Elan's therapy was criminally insane.

In reference to the demise of Synanon –Paul Morantz- an expert on Synanon and cults writes in his book, Escape My Lifelong War against Cults “In the end Synanon went the way of Al Capone, a violent organization brought down by the tax code”.

Elan and Ricci fraudulently made money by lying to states, parents and insurance companies – Ricci and Elan took money for services that were not delivered to the states wards - Ricci lied to parents as to what he was doing to their children, and Ricci and Elan- fraudulently took money from insurance companies that paid for their clients to be there.

Elan was -"the big lie” - if there ever was such a thing- it was a sham of a scam that as a result  many people  lay dead in the wake of its legacy. Dead from suicides after their elan experience – many former “Elan residents” chose death than to come back and face more elan- oxymoronic- therapy.  This fact cannot be ignored any more. 

Elan needs to be investigated by the U.S. Justice Department for running a continuing criminal enterprise that lasted for almost forty years.  Bill Diamond a former state senator and many people in the Maine state government also need to be investigated, in my opinion, for protecting Elan and aiding and abetting Elan in its criminal endeavors.

Martin Kruglik is the cretin that is running the general meeting for that unfortunate girl - notice how he says “99 and 9 tenths of a percent of the people in here”, in this room, “just want to cut your throat” - Kruglik was one of the sickest of the sick - I remember him well (makes me want to vomit).

Honestly I seriously would like to know what Michael Skakel's opinion is concerning this depiction of Elan by this film? – I am willing to bet that his general meeting was nothing like the one that was staged for this film.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Michael Skakel made bail today
« on: November 21, 2013, 12:55:45 PM »
Today Michael Skakel made bail - It is wonderful - considering that he has had his conviction overturned, from his previous 2002 trial.

This  is a very rare occurance in any habeas corpus trial. I am very glad that common sense has  prevailed in this case. I do not believe that the prosecutors will be successful in their apeal of Judge Bishop's ruling - though it has been said "that stranger things have happened".

I would hope that the state of Conn. would spend their taxpayer's monies more wisely - than they did by sending their state wards ( children) to Elan for imo fraudulent therapy. Maybe instead of wasting more money on prosecuting  Michael Skakel the state of Conn. could try to get their taxpayers money back from Elan - by way of asking the Federal Justice Department to begin an investigation into elan and the state of Maine  for imo running a continuing criminal enterprise for close to 40 years.

It would only take one state to start the federal investigation - though there are more states that imo were  also defrauded of their taxpayers monies.

This would be a great first step in righting a terrible wrong which was done by the state of Maine by allowing elan to function imo as a continuing criminal enterprise for close to 40 years. Sadistic criminal child abuse is not therapy and that is what elan provide imo for many state's wards for their taxpayer's hard earned  dollars. It really is a no brainer - we are talking about fraud on a grand abusive scale.

Still it is a very good day for Michael Skakel and his family and I think justice is finally starting to be  served.

Here is the link to Judge Thomas bishop’s ruling concerning Michael Skakel’s  heabas corpus trial.

Interesting long legal rendering - parts are surprising to me like not having an expert to testify as to what Elan was ( a Synanon comparable/based center or worse as Dr. Ofshe the cult expert testified), and in Judge Bishop's opinion this would not have influenced the out come of the verdict - Slightly baffling to me.

I believe it would have certainly given the jury a better context as to just what the hell went on in that place during that time of Elan's historical context - and what was happening to M. Skakel at the time, who knows how it may have affected  a verdict.

-Still- far and wide Sherman was certainly an ineffective counsel at best for a person being charged with such a serious crime and I am glad that Judge Bishop recognized this in his verdict of this Habeas corpus trial.

Elan School / Re: RIP Tiffany Sedaris
« on: October 23, 2013, 06:30:00 PM »
Thank you Inculcated for posting this.

David Sedaris's article for the New Yorker magazine was beautiful and very sad- and insightful. It made me think about how fragile some of us became after our horrible  Elan experience - very sad and moving.

Thank you again for taking the time to put it here.


Aspen Education Group / Re: 5 Aspen programs closes
« on: July 12, 2013, 01:06:43 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
5 program closes.

* Academy at Swift River
* Talisman Academy
* Stone Mountain School
* SUWS Adolescent & Youth Programs - Idaho
* Adirondack Leadership Expeditions

Instead of blaming the economy just state as it is. They just could not shut up those who survived and it is a killer for the marketing efforts.

Aspen Education Group Closes Five Programs (Struglingteens)

Absolutely Oscar instead of blaming the economy- just tell the truth.  They, these programs (Elan, Aspen, Straight,  etc) just could not shut up those who survived and it is killing their marketing efforts, you are most  correct kind sir.

It is funny that these programs are incapable of ever telling the truth or recognizing the truth,( they will try to blame their closing on the economy ,lol) these hell holes cannot hide from the truth of what they did ( or do ) to children in the guise of therapy, because there are survivors that  are alive to tell the truth about what went on in these places.

Burns my ears to listen Oscar. It  burned my eyes to see Oscar, firsthand what an abusive program like elan and what it's henchmen  did to children. The folks that run these places now need assistance in finding justice for the crimes of sadistic physical and emotional serial  child abuse that they heaped upon defenseless children- all for the love of money and well they  also enjoyed being serial child abusers. Criminally sick people run these type of places.

Sharon Terry ,Martin Kruglik ,and Jeffery Gottlieb the cretins that ran elan need to be put in prison -no doubt in my mind or many other elan survivor's minds about this.

It is nice to know Oscar, that many people like yourself realize that  it is not the economy , that  it the truth that is shutting down these Synanon spawned treatment centers, And  it is coming from survivors lips to the worlds ears.

Damn Oscar thank you for putting things right and in their proper perspectives, And to the survivors don't ever shut up!

Thank you Oscar

Absolutely Muppeteer the re-entry phase was the when residents, during my time of course-lol- had to go into the community and find a job , learn how to integrate back into society . Get a girlfriend -it was said to me that you wouldn't graduate until you had fufilled those requirements .you still slept in the dorms , you were considered strength - and pretty much left alone by the isanity of the house - unless they were called upon to run a group.

Usually they got a car ride into Lewiston to get to work .  they were not staff and I never looked at them as staff. Staff were paid - Muppeteer who was the director of your houses. Was Kruglik (chief Marty ) still there - Was Rosenburg an assistant director then - he was a resident at 6 he taught me the game spades.

Yes the cleaning crew was our service crew - cleaned all the common areas of the house.  and I am familar with the Kitchen crew as having also been in that Dept.  Most new residents were placed on the service crew during their "orientation " Ha I remembered yes new residents went thru the "orientation" process which is what I described "up stream" in this topic as to the learning of the rules of Elan .

dept Head

I never heard of the Propheets or ? joe Ricc was fairly active during my first few months he would give these things as well as the directors and assistant directors called "seminars " during one Joe talked alot about his time in Daytop - and how horrible it was - shaving of heads - people wearing diapers , signs He also said that his Elan was going to be better than Dasytop - not as harsh - Ironically shortly after this people were made to wear signs , costumes ,one was made to wear a diaper - hair was actually cut -though heads were not shaved during general meetings .

I actually think Joe Ricci's program became much more brutal that what he experienced and talked about during his time at Day Top.

From that seminar of joe Ricci 's about a week after I got there -there is no doubt in my mind that he based  his program from his experience at Daytop- he threw in a few twists to make it his own - I guess he was worried that Daytop or Synanon would sue him for copy right laws -(lol) sorry small joke -  and Davidson did what ever Ricci wanted. I don't think Davidson had much input on Ricci's Elan he simply supplied the credentials that Ricci needed to make his RTC legal in the eyes of licensing for the state of Maine. Davidson maybe gave parents a sense of ligitimacy when they saw a Harvard trained doctor on board as a founder, who knows - one thing true for his lack of consuling of the residents he collected a nice paycheck.

Yes I agree this is a very good topic and thread it is nice to speak openly and freely w/o having your head chopped off Elan style.

Che was 3 Springs a " wilderness program" ? What does that mean actually ? how long was the average stay and what did your "detainees have to accomplish to be able to leave. where did most of them go when they left?  Average age ?  court ordered or private placement.  

Propheets- have no idea what model or style of program thought .Wasserman? Est ? curious what was it.

Thanks again Muppeteer for contributing to this disection of Elan. The mutal respect is accomplishing a lot on this thread.

They certainly knew that what they were doing in 1974 was illeagal or Joe Ricci and the directors wouldn't have tried to control what state inspectors were allowed to see by hiding what was going on inside the walls. Ken Zaretzky said it best ,he was an assistant director -now dead - Kenneth said " we lied thru our teeth " in referece to the state of Illinois and other state inspections.

The directors certainly didn't hide the violence or insanity because they were embarrassed,I actually believe they seriously enjoyed what they were doing,  by what they were having children and adults to do to each other . And as a resident you knew from " learning from iothers mistakes" -lol- that you were never allowed to speak to state inspectors about the horros that the directors were putting us thru.

good Question Che - I think it is possible that because elan was growing so fast during my time , maybe 110 residents in the existing two houses at the time I arrived . 50 to 55 in Elan 2 -located in Waterford ,Me. Asnd at Elan 3 in Poland Springs about 55 people when I got there in July of 74 that by January the population had more than doubled in less than 6 months. The violence was a way to control us and give us something to do. For the directors it was in my opinion it was a sick form of entertainment.  People were splitting and they had to instill the fear into us as to what happened to those that split and subsequently got caught- though people were desperate and still knowing what could await them split quite often.

Some residents had   prison hanging over their heads and I remember one person telling Gottlieb during one general meeting that he wopuld rather be in prison when he was asked if he wanted to go to prison, Gottlieb left the gm briefly  and  then came back and then told the fellow you should be careful for what you wish for and he cashed his prison ticket for him .The resident  was probably better off for this. Though his general meeting got seriously sick with graphic descriptions of prison rape and as the  homophobia of the directors was off the charts  as they really seemed to get into what could happen to a young adult in prison.

The directors were obcessed with all things realted to homosexual behavour, in the most negative fashion - mockery -shaming -and this is what will -not could but will happen to you in prison. and then the old question does any one else want to go to prison instead of being here in Elan. Elan  was insane, and the employees  were homophobic freaks. making kids sing the vasilene song - insane. Thank god that hell holes past caught up with it.

I think too that on down the road they reaslized that eventually if they didn't change that it would be closed down therefore from knowing this - And under doctor Davivsons guidance and Ricci lack of involvement they more than likely fine tuned the program over to where they knew the what would still achieve the means or out comes  thay were getting from being so violent.  

I think they went from being extremly violent in the 70s and were finding their way back to the middle the median of the stick - I don't believe the pendulm ever  sung so far to where it was ever a fun placve to be. they were learning about mob mentality -and human behavour -and certainly how far you could push certain types of personalities until they snapped or broke down.  

The directors had no formal training -schooling in the ways and means of basic human behavour - they were common thugs -con men -ex junkies or serioult sick sociopaths- I think Elan in the beginning for these cretins that helped Joe Ricci get fraudulently wealthy were getting on the job training in the sickest psychiological way possible -as a result there are many from my time that eventually committed suicide.

I don't think Elan closed because it became less violent -no one in the public eye (except for the ones in the Maine state government that aided and abetted Ricci in his fraudulent sham of a Residential treatment center ) knew just what the hell was going on in there .

Elan made sure that you knew before you left   that the abuse you received and witnessed was good for you , thru their public speaking program ,where residents went into the schools and community and gave speaking engagements. These were practiced in the house and you bet were highly cwnsored as to what you were allowed to talk about . Phrase that the public wouldn't understand therefore you should say this instead . The cult of Elan got you coming and going -

I think the past of Elan thru this wonderful thing we know as the internet was instrumental in the closing of Elan. Its skeletons that it aquired over the years finally caught up with it. II think that if what Elan did as far as brutaally abusing people and the superior job they did at getting the formerly abused residents to believe that they needed this insane abuse and were in fact better for this abuse -that elan would have been exposed many years earlier. And of course the residents that committed suicide certainly elan didn't caqre about them -they were just the expected collateral damage that Elan just wrote off as not my problem - and then play the blame the victim game -they weren't going to make it any way.

Elan back in my time- you could get in trouble -serious trouble if you spoke badly -"bad mouthed the program" - something you were taught from day one -and you could get dealt with rather harshly for this behavour. Elan left an indelible mark on our minds and a lot of us didn't wake up to what happened to us until 20 or so years after the fact, and then the truth that elan was the big lie and that the abuse we went thru was not good for us, in fact quite the opposite was/ is true.

We were treated like animals, call the house into the dining room and Tom Blanchard  ( drugged to the point that he would stand motionless in one spot ) would just start to drool.  

Elan I feel and think always reserved the right to come out sick on the  residents of the later years and I am sure there are incidents of this as to the fact that Muppeter wrote that they did se the ring in 86 though maybe 3 times in their  stay where many of us from my time saw it  close to 100 plus times or even more than likely  experienced it  during our stay  either for the house or going in the ring against the house.

Just like those ESPN missmatched early televised fights ,you always went in the ring against some one bigger than you when you went in against the house. and this could happen repeatedly in 4 or 5 rounds until the directors felt you understood your helpless situation.

Elan was a one size fits all program no regard to individuality and the employees  had many brutal tools of compliance to make you fit into it's cult based program. And you can believe some of us tried to get with the program as fast as we could, though nothing you did in Elan was ever good enough.

"the more that you give the more they  will take until you reach that fine line where you really can't fake - fire -fire on the mountain"

Interesting to read this  link Che - I was not reading  fornits when this topic was going on and alas did not see this topic until now.  

Thank you for posting it.

WTF2 was in the program with me,  she wrote the truth. no doubt about that.

Those were some insanely sick times in Poland Springs , she saw the evilness (that was Elan), and she knows the truth.

Cool Muppeteer and thank you for your earlier kind words, and  I thank you for speaking about  Elan during your time. It is neat to get a comparison and contrasting of the Elan program and how it modified  yet still achieved the same means, ten years later from my time.

Your discription of the dicotomy is fairly accurate - Chief expeditor was above the Shingle during my time. We had a senior Co-Ordinator as the top position in the house ,then the  full Co-Ordinators and of course the co-ordinator trainees. Guru and Jr Guru.

Haircuts could be given in any room of the house. There were also large Haircuts called the Round Robin.  

Mary O'Brien from my time has a very accurate drawing in her book titled,  My Imagination and Art  Sustained Me, concerning one that she and Jennifer Stamler received in the dining room together, they were back to back and about 25 plus people participated  ( all her drawings in her book are like pictures from many incidents that I witnessed  and remember, at least for me her drawings area treasure and are incrediblly accurate and are really cool. Her drawings are the only real pictures of elan during my time, except for the one group photo that most have from that time ) .

The full expeditor could give blasts to the expeditor trainee. Expeditor Trainees were constantly getting blasted, and to the point that they were put into a mental  state called spinning. Rushing ,running ,carreening off the walls to get those headcounts.

The same thing ,spinning could happen to residents that were shotdown, provided they had a  P.O. that were told to blast them every few minutes , some people had 2 P.O.s so they blasted in a tag team fashion. Po's were people whose only job was to follow you around 24-7   either to make your life hell  if you were shotdown or to keep an eye on you so you wouldn't split or commit suicide. Elan was insane during my time.

No one during my time got a job in Elan unless they had graduated that paid minimum wage. Muppeteer  your description of people working in the Poland Spring house #3 's kitchen for minimum wage was interesting.  

Joe Ricci created a position called re-entry staff in 1976, you got paid a stipend of 20 dollars every two weeks . Your parents were still shelling out the $1200 a month as it was back then until you graduated . Re-entry staff were still in the program, until they graduated, they still lived on the property with other folks that were in re-entry. I will expound on this  later if needed re-entry Staff were not like the paid employees -like regular Staff, Assistant Directors and of course the Directors.

I wonder what Elan was charging in 1986?

That was the ditcotomy of Staff . Staff , Assistant Directors and directors . All graduates that were tapped to be employees started out as Staff. If it was a good match( lol) then they proceeded  to become  Assistant directors, this could happen with in  4 months to 8  months of a graduate beginning to work  as an Elan Employee.

I always had respect for the staff that left and there was one person who became an assistant director and in less than 3 months he quit. It was surreal people you knew graduated and became staff anf then became assistant directors. One such fellow signed my diploma. Elan was crazy , you knew things that they had gotten general meeting for and they were now working as paid employees - some things were quite sick.

The staff  let us know that they got to go home and we didn't, amongst other things- lol.

Again Muppeteer thank you for what you have been contributing to this thread. I don't mean to step on your posts, I am simply writing about the Elan that I know and knew. I would like to get into what the groups were like  individually , you spoke that the Primal scream was still in use only at specific houses? I thought they had  gone by 1978, intersting. I called them the voodoo doodoo primal scream groups - will get into that later if anyone is interested.

Encounter groups could be like little general meetings - will expound on them also . Muppeteer did you have the sensitivity groups, that was the only decent group in my opinion ?

Psy there was no aftercare program when I was there.

edited for spelling and clarity ,may have to edit again I am a very bad speller.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Pray away the gay camp....
« on: May 22, 2013, 12:42:10 AM »
My father was from South Africa- he left  in 1953, always went back,  I have relatives there to this day , obviously . I believe  he left because back then homosexuality was a punishable crime. Sad but true. You know better but I know him.

He was a brutal person.

They do some horrible things to children in S.A. he use to tell me stories about Pretoria Boys Home.

He almost sent me there I reckon decided against it because like I said  I have relatives there , but decided to send me to Elan - he had to lie to get me into Elan.

He was a sick, sick person, mind you, that had nothing to do with his homosexuality - He was a sadist .

just a fact.

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