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Messages - Nonconformistlaw

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16
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: straight movie
« on: January 24, 2009, 10:13:22 PM »
Quote from: "DarrenB"
Yes, I remember "Not My Child".  My oldest sister was in Straight and it saved her life.  That was almost 19 years ago and I was 10 years old but that movie was very accurate.  I am trying to find a copy of that movie but it is nowhere to be found.  It is not even mentioned on IMDB.com.

You were NOT in Straight. I WAS in Straight in 1984 - 1986 and that movie was shown in group one night. The biggest thing I remember about that movie?? Being told it was about Straight and being confused and wondering why it was so different from the REALITY of Straight....Not MY Kid was a huge LIE. Clearly you were NOT in Straight so you could not possbly know whether or not it was an accurate portrayal of Straight. What went on in the group was NEVER revealed to anyone...not even our parents.

17
Quote from: "Guest"
We need your help. We have an effort underway that just might win some small justice. You all have been a major factor in organizing and investigating. We are asking for one last go round. All survivors will be asked to participate, we are seeking these because and only because of their track record going against certain individuals. If you can find these folks ask them to call each other and get together and those of us with an idea will show. We need their thoughts and input.
We all have talents and all play a role so please no one take offense. We would like their input before persuing our idea. I know we have asked ALOT of these suvivors in the past and I feel guilty asking for one more time but we must. If it can be done we must try.
We can all be negative about this effort, take it personally or we can support them if they believe this will help.If I left someone out I apologize.

If I am the "Chris" you are referring to just PM me or have Ginger contact me. If its a different Chris, disregard this post. Thanks...

18
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"

check check and check

My mother said this to me just yesterday, "You've made these victimy statements about nightmares and anxiety wtf is that about get over yourself"

Apparently she doesnt realize that PTSD is a real disorder, like I can help what it feels like to live with this.

I just dont understand how people can be so unconcerned about the long term damage an experience like this can do to someone especially a teenager who may or may not be unstable in the first place. Thank god I wasnt skitso or suicidal things would have ended up much worse.

you might find this article interesting too.

PTSD & Secondary Wounding
Excerpts from I Can't Get Over It - A Handbook for Trauma Survivors
Author: Aphrodite Matsakis, Ph.D.

http://www.angelfire.com/va3/companyg/s ... nding.html

"As important to the healing process as other people are, it's an unfortunate truth that often people do more harm than good. Strangers who don't understand your situation can be unintentionally cruel, but so can those who should know better: family, friends, and helping professionals. Instead of being supported, you have been made to feel ashamed of having been a part of the traumatic event in the first place, of your reactions to the event, or the symptoms you have developed as a result, or even for asking for help.

You may have heard, for example, "You weren't hurt enough to be entitled to benefits, " or "It happened years ago. You should be over it by now." Such attitudes exist even in the most obvious and horrendous cases of victimization.

Secondary wounding occurs when the people, the institutions, caregivers, and others to whom the survivor turns for emotional, legal, financial, medical, or other assistance respond in one of the following ways:

Disbelief:

Commonly, people will deny or disbelieve the trauma survivor's account of the trauma. Or they will minimize or discount the magnitude of the event(s), its meaning to the victim, its impact on the victim s life.

Blaming the Victim:

On some level, people may blame the victim for the traumatic event, thereby increasing the victim's sense of self-blame and low self-esteem.

Stigmatization:

Stigmatization occurs when others judge the victim negatively for normal reactions to the traumatic event or for any long-term symptoms he or she may suffer. These judgments can take the following forms:

• Ridicule of, or condescension toward, the survivor
• Misinterpretation of the survivor's psychological distress, as a sign of deep psychological problems or moral or mental deficiency or otherwise giving the survivor's PTSD symptoms negative labels.
• An implication or outright statement that the survivor's symptoms reflect his or her desire for financial gain, attention, or unwarranted sympathy.
• Punishment of the victim, rather than the offender, or in other ways depriving the victim of justice.

Denial of Assistance:

Trauma survivors are sometimes denied promised or unexpected services on the basis that they do not need or are not entitled to such services or compensation.

Causes of Secondary Wounding

In essence, secondary wounding occurs because people who have never been hurt or traumatized have difficulty understanding and being patient with people who have been hurt. Secondary wounding also occurs because people who have never been confronted human tragedy are sometimes unable to comprehend the lives of those in occupations that involve dealing with human suffering or mass casualties on a daily basis.

In addition, some people simply are not strong enough to accept the negatives in life. They prefer to ignore the fact that sadness, injustice and loss are just as much a part of life as joy and goodness. When such individuals confront a trauma survivor, they may reject, depreciate or ridicule the survivor because that individual represents the parts of life they have chosen to deny.

On the other hand, it also happens that trauma survivors are rejected or disparaged by other survivors those who have chosen to deny or repress their own trauma and have not yet dealt with their loses or anger. When trauma survivors who are not dealing with their traumatic pasts see someone who is obviously suffering emotionally or physically, they may need to block out that person in order to leave their own denial system intact

The following sections give a brief run-down of some of the common causes of secondary wounding.

Ignorance:

Some secondary wounding stems from sheer ignorance. Especially in the past, there were few, if any, courses on PTSD available to medical, legal, and mental health professionals. Today such courses are available in many locations; however, they are not a required part of the training in any of those fields.

Burnout:

Another cause of secondary wounding is that many helping professionals are themselves suffering from some form of PTSD or burnout. As a result of having worked for years with survivors, they (like those survivors) are emotionally depleted. They may also, like many survivors, feel unappreciated and unrecognized by the general public and by those in their workplace.

"Just World" Philosophy:

Another hurdle victims face is the prevalence and persistence of the "just world" philosophy. According to this philosophy, people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. The basic assumption of the "just world" philosophy is that if you are sufficiently careful, intelligent, moral, or competent, you can avoid misfortune. Thus people who suffer trauma are somehow to blame for their misfortune. Even if the victims aren't directly blamed, they are seen as causing their own victimization by being inherently weak or ineffectual.

The Influence of Culture:

Our nation was founded by individuals who overcame massive obstacles by means of hard work, self-sacrifice, and physical and emotional endurance. As a nation today, as in the past, we pride ourselves on the can-do spirit and our American ingenuity we are certain we can overcome almost any hardship. The American dream tells us that our country is so bountiful and so full of opportunities that anyone who wants the good life can have it; all they have to do is pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Abraham Lincoln is quoted as saying, "People can be happy as they make up their minds to be," implying that in the personal realm, man can be master of his own fate. If only he were right."

19
Quote from: "Ursus"
Wow. You have no idea... Thanks ever so much for bringing this to my attention.
I stumbled across this a few months ago myself on myspace....I knew right away this is what I have...I have heard that DR has a lot of insight into Complex PTSD and am hoping to read her book....I am so glad someone started this topic.

20
Complex PTSD
Julia M. Whealin, Ph.D. and Laurie Slone, Ph.D.

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdocs/ ... =factsheet

Differences between the effects of short-term trauma and the effects of chronic trauma?

The diagnosis of PTSD accurately describes the symptoms that result when a person experiences a short-lived trauma. For example, car accidents, natural disasters, and rape are considered traumatic events of time-limited duration. However, chronic traumas continue or repeat for months or years at a time. Clinicians and researchers have found that the current PTSD diagnosis often does not capture the severe psychological harm that occurs with such prolonged, repeated trauma. For example, ordinary, healthy people who experience chronic trauma can experience changes in their self-concept and the way they adapt to stressful events. Dr. Judith Herman of Harvard University suggests that a new diagnosis, called Complex PTSD, is needed to describe the symptoms of long-term trauma. Another name sometimes used to describe this cluster of symptoms is: Disorders of Extreme Stress Not Otherwise Specified (DESNOS).

Because results from the DSM-IV Field Trials indicated that 92% of individuals with Complex PTSD/DESNOS also met criteria for PTSD, Complex PTSD was not added as a separate diagnosis. Complex PTSD may indicate a need for special treatment considerations.


What are examples of types of captivity that are associated with chronic trauma?

Judith Herman notes that during long-term traumas, the victim is generally held in a state of captivity, physically or emotionally. In these situations the victim is under the control of the perpetrator and unable to flee.

Examples of captivity include:

Concentration camps
Prisoner of War camps
Prostitution brothels
Long-term domestic violence
Long-term, severe physical abuse
Child sexual abuse
Organized child exploitation rings
 

What are the symptoms of Complex PTSD?

The first requirement for the diagnosis is that the individual experienced a prolonged period (months to years) of total control by another. The other criteria are symptoms that tend to result from chronic victimization. Those symptoms include:

Alterations in emotional regulation
This may include symptoms such as persistent sadness, suicidal thoughts, explosive anger, or inhibited anger

Alterations in consciousness
This includes things such as as forgetting traumatic events, reliving traumatic events, or having episodes in which one feels detached from one's mental processes or body

Changes in self-perception
This may include a sense of helplessness, shame, guilt, stigma, and a sense of being completely different than other human beings

Alterations in the perception of the perpetrator
For example; attributing total power to the perpetrator or becoming preoccupied with the relationship to the perpetrator, including a preoccupation with revenge

Alterations in relations with others
Variations in personal relations including isolation, distrust, or a repeated search for a rescuer

Changes in one's system of meanings
This may include a loss of sustaining faith or a sense of hopelessness and despair

 
What other difficulties do those with Complex PTSD tend to experience?

Survivors may avoid thinking and talking about trauma-related topics because the feelings associated with the trauma are often overwhelming. Survivors may use alcohol and substance abuse as a way to avoid and numb feelings and thoughts related to the trauma. Survivors may also engage in self-mutilation and other forms of self-harm.
 
There is a tendency to blame the victim.
A person who has been abused repeatedly is sometimes mistaken as someone who has a "weak character."

Because of their chronic victimization, in the past, survivors have been misdiagnosed by mental-health providers as having Borderline, Dependent, or Masochistic Personality Disorder. When survivors are faulted for the symptoms they experience as a result of victimization, they are being unjustly blamed.

Researchers hope that a new diagnosis will prevent clinicians, the public, and those who suffer from trauma from mistakenly blaming survivors for their symptoms.

Summary
The current PTSD diagnosis often does not capture the severe psychological harm that occurs with prolonged, repeated trauma. For example, long-term trauma may impact a healthy person's self-concept and adaptation. The symptoms of such prolonged trauma have been mistaken for character weakness. Research is currently underway to determine if the Complex PTSD diagnosis is the best way to categorize the symptoms of patients who have suffered prolonged trauma.

Recommended Reading
Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence from Domestic Abuse to Political Terror, by Judith Herman, M.D. (1997). Basic Books; ISBN 0465087302

References
Ford, J. D. (1999). Disorders of extreme stress following war-zone military trauma: Associated features of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder or comorbid but distinct syndromes? Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 67, 3-12.

Herman, J. (1997). Trauma and recovery: The aftermath of violence from domestic abuse to political terror. New York: Basic Books.

Roth, S., Newman, E., Pelcovitz, D., van der Kolk, B., & Mandel, F. S. (1997). Complex PTSD in victims exposed to sexual and physical abuse: Results from the DSM-IV field trial for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder. Journal of Traumatic Stress, 10, 539-555.

21
Now seems like a good time to bump this up in case anyone else wants to sign. There are currently 245 online signatures....

22
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: so long and thanks for all the fish!
« on: September 27, 2008, 09:34:11 PM »
Sammy,

I too am at a loss for words....I never met you but I want to thank you...you were one of the first, if not the first, survivor to go public 20 years later. For that I thank you....I am grateful that you and some other survivors paved the way for more survivors to speak out as well.  One day we will have justice, one day we will all be free, one day they WILL pay dearly for what they have done.....I am not sure when but it will happen. And when your time comes, rest easy knowing that many of us will never stop fighting them!

23
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Nonconformistlaw"
The second time, participants were later told, was an attempt to stop protesters from videotaping the public event.

Heh heh heh... They really can't stand video cameras now can they... lol.

NO they dont like the camera at all! The last protest I was at in May we got yelled at by someone on the peer staff..."YOU CANT DO THAT." To which yours truly responded rather forcefully...."Why program confidentiality?" to which programmed kid yells "Yeah, confidentiality, you cant do that!." I then informed that peer staff member that since they were participating in a public protest, out in public, that confidentialty did not apply. You should have seen the look on that kids face...didnt know how to respond to that one! Back to the building that kid went!

They HATE video....we LOVE it!

24
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... t_locally/

Source: Cincinnati Beacon

"Straight, Inc. and KHK survivors protest locally"

Posted Tues July 15, 2008

"Numerous Straight, Inc. and Kids Helping Kids survivors, along with other concerned activists, traveled from 5 different states and the Greater Cincinnati area to participate in the July 11, 2008 protest in Milford, Ohio. The group protested Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK), a behavior modification teen treatment facility which is not only the current renamed version of Straight, Inc, it also still uses the STRAIGHT, Inc. treatment modality. 

The protesters’ mission was to express opposition and to educate local residents about the “treatment methods” used by PFC, methods which this group believes pose a substantial risk of harm to children. Specifically, the protesters strongly object to, among other things, the use of coercive thought reform, isolation from parents, peers and society, unlicensed host homes, unqualified peer staff, unnecessary and/or disproportionate punishments, and the denial of basic human rights such as total bathroom privacy. Additionally, the demonstrators are extremely concerned about children having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other serious mental health issues caused by their ordeal in Pathway. Repeated reports to state agencies of systematic abuse and other improprieties have also been ignored for years. 

This protest comes on the heels of the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelming approval of H.R. 6358, The Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2008. Recent congressional investigations uncovered thousands of allegations of abuse, neglect and youth deaths in private teen behavior modification facilities in the United States. This legislation aims to protect youth in all private treatment facilities, including Pathway Family Center.

The rocky start of the protest itself did not deter the determined activists from sharing their message. One Pathway official (Monica Mertens, according to Pathway insiders who spoke with protesters) displayed unprofessional conduct by confiscating one of the protestor’s signs. PFC officials also summoned Miami Township police twice. The first time was to remove protesters from the far side of the driveway who occasionally crossed it without blocking incoming traffic. The second time, participants were later told, was an attempt to stop protesters from videotaping the public event. Demonstrators did comply with law enforcement’s request to stay off to the sides of Pathway’s entrance but were never asked to stop filming. In spite of these incidents, the peaceful protest resumed without further confrontation.

At the demonstration itself, protesters carried and displayed numerous signs including “Coercive Thought Reform is Not Treatment,” “KHK Tortured Me,” and “Close PFC Now”. Many drivers showed solidarity either by honking, giving the thumbs up or by shouting “Thank you! My friend (or relative) was in there. This place stinks!” In addition, many passersby stopped, took literature and were given the free DVD set of the congressional hearings and KHK news footage. Even former clients of Straight and KHK, with no previous knowledge of our protests, no prior contact with activist survivors, saw the protest and stopped to speak with survivors. Both supported our efforts.

As the event was winding down, current PFC peer staff/graduates initiated peaceful discussions. At times the talks became a bit heated and emotional. Certainly there was much disagreement. But for the most part, both sides remained civil. 

At the end of the day, the exhausted survivors unanimously agreed that this event was nothing less than a smashing success and felt rejuvenated by the interest from the community. All participants vowed to continue their quest to educate the community about the harmful Straight Inc treatment model used by Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center. Their mission is to protect children from these harmful treatment methods."

25
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... t_locally/

Source: Cincinnati Beacon

"Straight, Inc. and KHK survivors protest locally"

Posted Tues July 15, 2008

"Numerous Straight, Inc. and Kids Helping Kids survivors, along with other concerned activists, traveled from 5 different states and the Greater Cincinnati area to participate in the July 11, 2008 protest in Milford, Ohio. The group protested Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK), a behavior modification teen treatment facility which is not only the current renamed version of Straight, Inc, it also still uses the STRAIGHT, Inc. treatment modality. 

The protesters’ mission was to express opposition and to educate local residents about the “treatment methods” used by PFC, methods which this group believes pose a substantial risk of harm to children. Specifically, the protesters strongly object to, among other things, the use of coercive thought reform, isolation from parents, peers and society, unlicensed host homes, unqualified peer staff, unnecessary and/or disproportionate punishments, and the denial of basic human rights such as total bathroom privacy. Additionally, the demonstrators are extremely concerned about children having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other serious mental health issues caused by their ordeal in Pathway. Repeated reports to state agencies of systematic abuse and other improprieties have also been ignored for years. 

This protest comes on the heels of the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelming approval of H.R. 6358, The Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2008. Recent congressional investigations uncovered thousands of allegations of abuse, neglect and youth deaths in private teen behavior modification facilities in the United States. This legislation aims to protect youth in all private treatment facilities, including Pathway Family Center.

The rocky start of the protest itself did not deter the determined activists from sharing their message. One Pathway official (Monica Mertens, according to Pathway insiders who spoke with protesters) displayed unprofessional conduct by confiscating one of the protestor’s signs. PFC officials also summoned Miami Township police twice. The first time was to remove protesters from the far side of the driveway who occasionally crossed it without blocking incoming traffic. The second time, participants were later told, was an attempt to stop protesters from videotaping the public event. Demonstrators did comply with law enforcement’s request to stay off to the sides of Pathway’s entrance but were never asked to stop filming. In spite of these incidents, the peaceful protest resumed without further confrontation.

At the demonstration itself, protesters carried and displayed numerous signs including “Coercive Thought Reform is Not Treatment,” “KHK Tortured Me,” and “Close PFC Now”. Many drivers showed solidarity either by honking, giving the thumbs up or by shouting “Thank you! My friend (or relative) was in there. This place stinks!” In addition, many passersby stopped, took literature and were given the free DVD set of the congressional hearings and KHK news footage. Even former clients of Straight and KHK, with no previous knowledge of our protests, no prior contact with activist survivors, saw the protest and stopped to speak with survivors. Both supported our efforts.

As the event was winding down, current PFC peer staff/graduates initiated peaceful discussions. At times the talks became a bit heated and emotional. Certainly there was much disagreement. But for the most part, both sides remained civil. 

At the end of the day, the exhausted survivors unanimously agreed that this event was nothing less than a smashing success and felt rejuvenated by the interest from the community. All participants vowed to continue their quest to educate the community about the harmful Straight Inc treatment model used by Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center. Their mission is to protect children from these harmful treatment methods."

26
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.p ... t_locally/

Source: Cincinnati Beacon

"Straight, Inc. and KHK survivors protest locally"

Posted Tues July 15, 2008

"Numerous Straight, Inc. and Kids Helping Kids survivors, along with other concerned activists, traveled from 5 different states and the Greater Cincinnati area to participate in the July 11, 2008 protest in Milford, Ohio. The group protested Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK), a behavior modification teen treatment facility which is not only the current renamed version of Straight, Inc, it also still uses the STRAIGHT, Inc. treatment modality. 

The protesters’ mission was to express opposition and to educate local residents about the “treatment methods” used by PFC, methods which this group believes pose a substantial risk of harm to children. Specifically, the protesters strongly object to, among other things, the use of coercive thought reform, isolation from parents, peers and society, unlicensed host homes, unqualified peer staff, unnecessary and/or disproportionate punishments, and the denial of basic human rights such as total bathroom privacy. Additionally, the demonstrators are extremely concerned about children having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other serious mental health issues caused by their ordeal in Pathway. Repeated reports to state agencies of systematic abuse and other improprieties have also been ignored for years. 

This protest comes on the heels of the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelming approval of H.R. 6358, The Stop Child Abuse in Residential Programs for Teens Act of 2008. Recent congressional investigations uncovered thousands of allegations of abuse, neglect and youth deaths in private teen behavior modification facilities in the United States. This legislation aims to protect youth in all private treatment facilities, including Pathway Family Center.

The rocky start of the protest itself did not deter the determined activists from sharing their message. One Pathway official (Monica Mertens, according to Pathway insiders who spoke with protesters) displayed unprofessional conduct by confiscating one of the protestor’s signs. PFC officials also summoned Miami Township police twice. The first time was to remove protesters from the far side of the driveway who occasionally crossed it without blocking incoming traffic. The second time, participants were later told, was an attempt to stop protesters from videotaping the public event. Demonstrators did comply with law enforcement’s request to stay off to the sides of Pathway’s entrance but were never asked to stop filming. In spite of these incidents, the peaceful protest resumed without further confrontation.

At the demonstration itself, protesters carried and displayed numerous signs including “Coercive Thought Reform is Not Treatment,” “KHK Tortured Me,” and “Close PFC Now”. Many drivers showed solidarity either by honking, giving the thumbs up or by shouting “Thank you! My friend (or relative) was in there. This place stinks!” In addition, many passersby stopped, took literature and were given the free DVD set of the congressional hearings and KHK news footage. Even former clients of Straight and KHK, with no previous knowledge of our protests, no prior contact with activist survivors, saw the protest and stopped to speak with survivors. Both supported our efforts.

As the event was winding down, current PFC peer staff/graduates initiated peaceful discussions. At times the talks became a bit heated and emotional. Certainly there was much disagreement. But for the most part, both sides remained civil. 

At the end of the day, the exhausted survivors unanimously agreed that this event was nothing less than a smashing success and felt rejuvenated by the interest from the community. All participants vowed to continue their quest to educate the community about the harmful Straight Inc treatment model used by Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center. Their mission is to protect children from these harmful treatment methods."

27
On Monday July 14, 2008, the same survivor group held another protest at Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK) in Milford, Ohio. At the end of the evening, as Pathway program participant vehicles were leaving the PFC facility, protesters were standing at the edge of PFC’s driveway where cars pull out onto Branch Hill Guinea Pike. At that time, three survivor demonstrators watched as one vehicle approached. The three witnesses then spotted a child on the left rear side of that same car. The child client in that car then held up his notebook where he had written the words “HELP ME”. One of the survivors then witnessed another boy in the same vehicle snatch the notebook out of other child’s hand. One of the 3 protester witnesses immediately called and reported the incident to Miami Township police, who in turn, immediately issued an all points bulletin tri state wide on the vehicle.

28
On Monday July 14, 2008, the same survivor group held another protest at Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK) in Milford, Ohio. At the end of the evening, as Pathway program participant vehicles were leaving the PFC facility, protesters were standing at the edge of PFC’s driveway where cars pull out onto Branch Hill Guinea Pike. At that time, three survivor demonstrators watched as one vehicle approached. The three witnesses then spotted a child on the left rear side of that same car. The child client in that car then held up his notebook where he had written the words “HELP ME”. One of the survivors then witnessed another boy in the same vehicle snatch the notebook out of other child’s hand. One of the 3 protester witnesses immediately called and reported the incident to Miami Township police, who in turn, immediately issued an all points bulletin tri state wide on the vehicle.

29
On Monday July 14, 2008, the same survivor group held another protest at Kids Helping Kids, a Pathway Family Center (aka Pathway Family Center, PFC and/or KHK) in Milford, Ohio. At the end of the evening, as Pathway program participant vehicles were leaving the PFC facility, protesters were standing at the edge of PFC’s driveway where cars pull out onto Branch Hill Guinea Pike. At that time, three survivor demonstrators watched as one vehicle approached. The three witnesses then spotted a child on the left rear side of that same car. The child client in that car then held up his notebook where he had written the words “HELP ME”. One of the survivors then witnessed another boy in the same vehicle snatch the notebook out of other child’s hand. One of the 3 protester witnesses immediately called and reported the incident to Miami Township police, who in turn, immediately issued an all points bulletin tri state wide on the vehicle.

30
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: Sign Thief
« on: July 12, 2008, 11:58:59 PM »
I am sure if the tables were turned and if we stole one of PFC's client signs (had they actually come out this time) (but of course we wouldnt consider doing something low and sleazy like that),  I am sure SHE would be raising a big stink and threatening to press charges over that. Every time WE do something entirely lawful, that place tries to claim we are doing something illegal. Like trying to tell us we couldnt video tape them and going so far as to gripe to the police about it! LOL I laughed when that program parent or staff, whatever he was, said that the police informed PFC that video taping the protest, including PFC clients who participated is LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I already knew that anyway but still, to hear a programmie admit it was great!) LOL These people are SO outta touch with reality!

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