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Messages - MommaDebi

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The Seed Discussion Forum / One of the beatings
« on: July 18, 2002, 04:58:00 PM »

 There are so many things that I have blacked out about the experiences I had there.

I think I remember some of that.Beatings always occured within my i guess i never realised how wrong they were.

Your are right FREEDOM, where were the people that were supposed to protect us? Who decided that we were so bad? I don't recall any adult talking to me upon my entry there except for "betty".

I still am unable to fully trust people that are supposed to be "helping" me and I am 43 now. This all happened to me when I was 14-15.

I remember the very day I stopped going to "Old Timers Raps", I had gone to the Elk's pool with an exseedling Mark Sibilia, he was in PAR and sober, we ran into some Seedlings and they would not "talk to me"!! I was stunned and hurt to think these people who said they "Loved Me" would not trust me to have good judgement with regards to my friends.

I raised my hand at the rap that night wanting to talk about how hurt I was but was told, within 2 sentences, that "if I had nothing to contribute to the rap I needed to sit down". The topic that night at the grad's rap was "how to get people into the Seed".....
I never went back

I started using again shortly thereafter, my choice, because I had bought into all the crap and had felt that I had a place of safety within the group, because there was absolutely none at home.I so desperately needed a place of safety.

I left home within a year, following a particularily brutal beating from my father.

"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..." (Watershed by Indigo Girls)

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-18 14:02 ]

« on: July 18, 2002, 04:21:00 PM »

This morning, I got a reply from Calvina Fay, the director of the Drug Free America Foundation.

The letter basically threatens me and Reason with a lawsuit should the story go to press. It also says that the Fox column was libelous, though, once again, it fails to lay out any specific instances where I've libeled anyone.....which is little more than sheer intimidation. ... DFAF knows that. But they obviously figure that the more people around me they rattle, the quicker I'll buckle. Not gonna' happen. It's high time somebody held these bozos accountable.

Please don't buckle under. These evil people are so used to using their strongarm tactics
on the people in the programs that they have forgotten that in the real world poeple want information. The more things are held back the more power they continue to have.

Ever since I found this site of rational thought  on what happened to us, I have attempted to talk to my husband and my son (who just turned 18)about what happened to me in the Seed. I don't really know why I never spoke before, I think it is because it is so hard to explain to those who were not there.

I think my husband's reaction: "there were no trained therapists there?!! My God what an ass your father was!!"

 My husband and I have been really sober for 15 and 21 years respectively now. He was in a real rehab and I did it with NA and AA's assistance. He was quite shocked to hear that when I was barely 14 I was thrown in this place...he had known I was in a place called the Seed, but I had never really told him my experiences within the group before.

This came up last week when I was trying to tell him about the Calvina letter to the editor that I was so angry and disgusted about.

 Thank God my son just graduated HS and is off to New College (where he has heard that "all prof's smoke pot!! I am sure they don't...but at least there is a liberal bent to the teachings!LOL!!)

Please don't let them win again.

debi white an exseedling

(i think it was '72-'74)

"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..." (Watershed by Indigo Girls)

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-18 13:38 ]

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Straight mentioned 6X
« on: July 10, 2002, 11:30:00 PM »
all too familiar....

The Seed Discussion Forum / Letter to the Editor of St Pete Times
« on: July 06, 2002, 02:44:00 PM »
Not my kid either!!!!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Letter to the Editor of St Pete Times
« on: July 05, 2002, 11:16:00 PM »
WELL I THOUGH I MIGHT AS WELL PASTE IN THE "Offensive" editorial: I guess I am just on a rant tonight  LOL
 Times Editorial

An erosion of rights
In ruling that random drug testing in schools is constitutional, the Supreme Court is encouraging the indiscriminate violation of student privacy.

St. Petersburg Times
published July 1, 2002


What lesson should our children learn from the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision upholding the constitutionality of widespread, random drug tests in our schools? That Americans should be happy to be subjected to demeaning searches even when they have done nothing to warrant suspicion of criminal behavior? That our schools have no better uses for their limited time and money? Or that a majority of our current justices have even less appreciation for our Fourth Amendment than the average sixth-grader picks up in civics class?

Everyone knows that illegal drugs are a serious problem in our schools, and in the rest of society. However, the problem does not justify, on either practical or constitutional grounds, the indiscriminate violation of people's privacy.

Schools have long had the authority to test students who exhibit suspicious or disruptive behavior, but the court has been steadily chipping away at the rights of students (and adults) who have done nothing to provoke such intrusive searches.

In his majority opinion, Justice Clarence Thomas expanded on the court's strained argument that students who elect to participate in football, cheerleading, chess club and other extracurricular activities implicitly give up rights that apply to those students who somehow manage to avoid such activities.

As Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg noted in her dissenting opinion, the ruling has the perverse effect of discouraging students from participating in activities that can enrich their educations. Nor can indiscriminate testing of students who participate in extracurricular activities be justified on the public safety grounds that allow for the random testing of pilots, chauffeurs and people in similar professions. What clear and present danger is this ruling designed to prevent? Flying pompoms? Runaway rooks?

A narrow court majority has deemed random drug tests constitutional, but that doesn't mean school districts are obliged to start lining up their students. Pinellas County schools spokesman Ron Stone had the appropriate response to the ruling. "It's really a question of trust," he said. "It's a very expensive proposition, and unless there's been some cause for suspicion, I don't see us doing it."

Pinellas County and most other area school districts have zero-tolerance policies that deal harshly -- sometimes too harshly -- with students who drink or use drugs. Still, they are likely to avoid the treacherous path the court has opened for them. There are less expensive and less demeaning ways of dealing with the problem of drugs in our schools, but some of our current justices won't be satisfied until they leave the Fourth Amendment reduced to a puddle that would fit in a small cup.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Letter to the Editor of St Pete Times
« on: July 05, 2002, 11:11:00 PM »

Letters to the Editors
Student testing helps parents to fight drugs

St. Petersburg Times
published July 5, 2002

Your July 1 editorial, An erosion of rights, totally ignores the reality of the deadly drug epidemic that we have today in our country. It also ignores what the majority of America's parents support: the health and safety of their children.

According to a recent poll conducted by CNN, 70 percent of our nation's parents support student drug testing. Have you wondered why? Have you stopped to consider how many parents have lost their children to drugs but might have been able to save them if only they could have been forewarned through student drug testing?

As a drug prevention professional and expert on drug testing, I can tell you it is an excellent tool for detecting and deterring drug use, preventing addiction and for saving lives. The Supreme Court decision supporting student drug testing is a real boost for the young people who want to stay safe and drug-free. Now, when the drug users and pushers at their schools (and they are in every school) try to get them to use drugs, they can say no and still look cool.

You cite an invasion of privacy as a reason not to use this valuable tool. Privacy in public schools? Anyone who has ever taken a shower after physical education class knows there is no privacy in a public school. What we have now is a much better chance that our kids will graduate from school safe and drug-free, and that is a great thing!

The tone of your editorial indicates that you think there is something un-American about random searches, even when it is for the health and well-being of the public. I suppose you never fly because of these deep-seated feelings?

Why is there any question about this issue? Ask any responsible parent if he or she wants their children to use drugs. Ask those same parents if they would want to know if their child was doing drugs so they could find help for the child. This is simply a report card on whether kids are doing drugs. Parents want all the help they can get in the fight against drugs.

This decision by the Supreme Court is great for everyone, except, of course, for the drug dealers. With student drug testing, parents can now send their kids to safe schools where the emphasis will be on learning, not on peer pressure and drug use. Students will enjoy a safer environment where they can learn. It is my hope that parents and teachers in both Pinellas and Hillsborough counties will encourage their school districts to tap into the federal funds available through the No Child Left Behind Act and implement student drug testing in all of our local schools.
-- Calvina L. Fay, executive director, Drug Free America Foundation Inc., St. Petersburg

Kids don't have adult rights
Your editorial about drug testing in schools (An erosion of rights, July 1) was a lot of hogwash. It may be an erosion of rights in schools and colleges where students are of age. Younger children in lower-level schools should be treated differently. I'm sure most parents would want to know if their child tested positive for drugs.

We shouldn't treat these kids like they have the same rights as adults -- they're kids, for heaven's sake and should do what they are told. We don't need to negotiate with them regarding their curricula, we don't want their opinions on world matters -- we want them to learn math and English. Learn your times tables, learn to write and speak appropriately, then we'll talk about privacy and rights.
-- Chandler D. Mapes, Valrico

The Seed Discussion Forum / Letter to the Editor of St Pete Times
« on: July 05, 2002, 10:45:00 PM »
In  today's paper 7/5, there is a letter to the editor written by a Calvina L Fox, exectutive director of Drug Free America.

The letter was in response to an editorial written concerning the "Erosion of rights" that comes with mandatory drug testing within our schools.

The tone of the letter, as I am sure we can guess, was of the standard Seed/Straight line. "Deadly drug epidemic",""Ask any responsible parent...","this is simply a report card on whether kids are doing drugs"!!

As both a parent and a former inmate of the Seed I was totally dismayed to see this and one other letter written in the same vein. "We shouldn't treat these kids like they have the same rights as adults-they're kids for heavens sakes and should do what they are told"

Doulble AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!
I must have missed the original editorial that got this response, but I am sure it was another instance of the St PeteTimes standing up for the rights of those needing help. I remember all the articles questioning the Seed, bringing attention to abuse alegations,  the safety of the Seed,and the activities  occrung within the Foster homes and the warehouse.

Any clear ideas of what we should do as citizens (adults too) to help this from becoming a new wave of destructive behavior for these kids---perpetrated by "loving parents" again???

There are so many articulate wrtiers here...perhaps we can remind them about what happens emotionally to these kids?

"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-05 19:51 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / back in a week
« on: June 14, 2002, 11:06:00 PM »
Hope you have a great vacation! Enjoy those kids!

The Seed Discussion Forum / My Parents
« on: June 14, 2002, 10:56:00 PM »
For some reason this posted more than once, but each time telling me there was aproblem... and that it would not post...amazing! LOL
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-06-14 20:01 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / My Parents
« on: June 14, 2002, 10:55:00 PM »
It is truly a small world!!

Freedom~~ it is unbelievable to me that my "neighbor" has experienced the same thing I did. It is so hard to explain to those people who did not have the "fortune" to be there!

Escaper~~ following my stint in the Seed for mere pot smoking, I decided to make my list real this time and did every thing I could get my hands on. Luckily I was able to do so without ever running into legal issues and without totally killing my self. I have been sober for almost 22yrs now, I like my life now without all the insanity. I wish you well.

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-06-14 19:58 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / My Parents
« on: June 14, 2002, 10:55:00 PM »
Dear neighbors...
feel free to contact me, perhaps we could have our own reunion...
[email protected]

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-06-14 20:03 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / St Pete Times forum
« on: June 14, 2002, 10:32:00 PM »
It is really amazing to me that these things are in fact still going on.

I remember my father telling me "if you want to smoke pot..just let me know and I'll get the good stuff and we will smoke it together". Yet when they caught me smoking a joint on a Sat of my first few...

The very next morning we went for a Sunday drive and I ended up at the Seed.It had just moved in from Lauderdale, I had never even heard about it, nor had my friends...lucky me, I was the first.

There I began the nightmare, with nobody believing my tale of not doing drugs...of course I was a "liar". So I became one, listening to other peoples' drug list and made up my own, I needed to do that to survive!

It took me almost 10 months to complete a 3 month program. Starting over 3 times because of things my father did (ie stopping with newcomers at a liqour store to get his fix because he'd be "damned if they will tell me what to do" of course the newcomer went in the next day and told about the stop. I recieved the punishment)

I remember certain instances that occured, the heat, the chairs, the late night meetings, the moral inventories written and rewritten, the intolerable food, the cigarettes being lit on every hour (I did not even smoke cigarettes at the time, but learned to do so) and the emotional anguish of feeling not good enough.

But I do not remember the people, just the actions of the people. I guess my brain has decided to keep those things from me.

I do know that reading these posts, complete with the names helps to fill in some of those blanks for me. Thank you all for that.

I do know that this "incarceration" changed my life irrevocably.

My school years from 72-76 became a trial for me. I never fit in with my peers following my graduation from the Seed, which I think took place in spring '73.

 As I have said in other posts, I was still "straight" and going to Oldtimers meeting until I was snubbed for being with a person in a different rehab (He had left the Seed and went into PAR), but since he was not a fellow seedling, it was an issue.

Luckily I did start working, my father falsified my birth certificate so that it appeared I was 16 when I was 14 and I went to work. So much for honesty...he did like me paying him rent though!

My fellow workers were in their 20's and did not care about the Seed. So I managed to go to school, be spit on, cursed out,ostracized and called names because I was a Seedling; then went to work where I was accepted for myself. So I went to their keg parties with my six pack of root beer, smoked a few joints and learned to live a double life.

I am a mother of a teen (he just graduated and goes off to college in the Fall). It has been really interesting to me to see him doing basic teen stuff: bowling, skating, pool plating, movies with groups of teens, hangin out at the house with his friends.

My first high school football game occured when he was in the 9th grade band, of course I went to support him. It was so strange.The life he has been living is so totally different from the one I had...It is a happy thing and sad at the same time....

I was always so worried about what I would do should my son start to take a different path, one that included drugs and alcohol. I strove to make his life one that did not need to "medicate" to escape from. He has always known my life story,and so far he has chosen not to do the things I did! Of course he believes it is because he is "smarter than me"....what ever works!


My parents still do not understand what they did to my life. Nor did I ever expect them to. My father's alcoholism killed him several years ago, I do not speak with my stepmother. My real mother is in such denial about so many things, that this is truly beyopnd her ability to talk with me about.

But I must say that we never will have a close relationship, I do not trust her to this day....

I hope my son never feels this way about me.


[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-06-14 19:42 ]

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-06-14 19:43 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / The raps
« on: June 12, 2002, 12:55:00 AM »
I am sitting on those damn hard chairs sweating all over again......

I was 13/14 in the 8/9th grade at Tyrone Jr High in 72/73....I am sure I was in those raps with you Greg.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Message to Thom
« on: June 12, 2002, 12:26:00 AM »
Gee Greg....your thoughts echo a lot of my own.

What I needed growing up was love, praise and is unfortunate that there were no adults in my life capable of giving me those basic needs...

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