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Messages - MommaDebi

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61
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Straight alumni with teens today...your perspectives????
« on: July 30, 2002, 12:52:00 AM »
I have two different experiences.


My son who just turned 18,and graduated High School, Starts at New College of Florida in August. He has been a wonderful, trusting, responsible, open and loving son. I am sure that he did some things that I assume all kids do, In fact there were a couple of times that I thought he might have come home high.


I did not confront him those few times. I know it seems crazy, but I actively chose NOT to confront it. #1 I was not sure, #2 I did not want to accuse him....I was always accused of doing things that I did not do as a child...I did not want to pass that behavior on to my son.


He was a straight A student (4.85 gpa when Graduated), JROTC officer and Commander, Nat Honor Society Chaplain,Student Council Representative for his Jr & Sr class.He also has worked for a Local Law Firm for the past 2.5 years.His curfew was 11pm until 11th grade then it became midnight.Thought he would challenge the curfew when he became a Senior,but never did. He only missed it twice and called both times to let me know he was going to be late.
 
He was/is always polite,friends are over here all the time,has a focus,talks of his life goals and feels he has a strong moral code of ethics that he is very proud of. (IE wants to wait until he is married before he has sex....don't know how long that will last but the longer the better from this parent's perspective LOL.)

Those are the reasons I decided to let my suspicions remain just that. Should those items, (or as I think of them "parameters") started to be different~~ I would have acted differently.

 I have always been open to him about the mistakes I have made in my life. I always spoken with reality when discussing different drugs, their effects and their consequences. He takes great pride in the fact that he is "smarter than I am" !! LOL-- whatever works right?!!  

debi

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-29 21:55 ]

62
The Seed Discussion Forum / Lakewood High
« on: July 30, 2002, 12:10:00 AM »
welcome to these boards.

You are not alone.

I know that reading these posts helped me to understand that my feelings were not strange or unique...that has helped me to feel much better about the time I spent in the program.



I hope it helps you too.

debi
ex-seedling '73-'74

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..." {Indigo Girls~~ "The Watershed"}

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-29 21:15 ]

63
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / We need your help
« on: July 27, 2002, 11:08:00 PM »
While I have not experienced SAFE, as a parent or a child....I would love to assist in  bringing their abuses to the public's eye.

I read in an earlier post that you and your son were a part of a picket in June 02 (?). I would be happy to lend my support both physically and emotionally.

I am an ex-Seedling from Spring 73-'74, So I do have first hand knowledge of the pain and anguish these programs cause within a child and a family.
debi

Thanks
debi

64
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Yes Virginia, They Really Had a Straight Gong Show.....Pt.1
« on: July 26, 2002, 12:24:00 PM »
Tampa Survivor wrote "Never got closure. Its all history, right? Rage is a nice little emotion. I need a bowl..."

To think we were accused of having no emotions.....LOL!!

65
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Gong Show '78 Part 2
« on: July 26, 2002, 12:08:00 PM »
Wow, reading your post....
brought it right back to me.

I wanted out that night (& every other night too). I seem to remember he came up to St Pete quite a bit especially at the beginning. Is that true?

66
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Please forgive me
« on: July 26, 2002, 12:02:00 PM »
I commend you for your honesty and integrity.
I urge you to join hands with other conned parents and help shut the SAFE program down.

I realise you feel that you did a horrible job as a parent by placing him there; I think that by taking action you could validate your and your son's feelings of betrayal and abuse.

Additionally you would be helping untold numbers of other families that have (or will) make the same error on judgement.

As a former Seedling, and a mother of a teen son, I commend you for the love you have for your child. It has made you strong enough to admit your error and allowed you to try to make amends.

I wish you internal peace and comfort.
debi white

67
The Seed Discussion Forum / In Re: The Seed and their Successes
« on: July 25, 2002, 08:05:00 PM »
Ditto.
"Any success I have enjoyed is not because of Art Barker or the seed~~~
 it is inspite of it or because I survived it."

debi

68
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / a general question for everyone about posting
« on: July 24, 2002, 08:16:00 PM »
I for one would like to hear from more people!

Not that you are posting too much, because you are not....but it always appears tham many are reading the posts (see # views), but not everybody is contributing to the rap! (LOL)

Actually i think what ever any one is comfortable with is the general idea: post lots, OR lurkers reading and never post.

I thnk this is one place where we all have learned how damaging it is to place judgments on other people's actions.

Relax  LOL

69
The Seed Discussion Forum / Greetings
« on: July 23, 2002, 09:11:00 PM »
I think I remember Suzy Connor....thanks for sharing your tale, Char. I too have a holey memory....

70
The Seed Discussion Forum / question for Debbie
« on: July 23, 2002, 02:40:00 PM »
Is not this a small world!! I was in Kindergarten at Temple Beth El, probally the same time!



I have got to tell you though, it is common for survivors (of some of my personal issues before and after the Seed) to have very little memory of times in their life.



So I have had to struggle with this blank slate of most of my life, I have about 5 memories between 4 & 13yrs old, 10 or so of ages 14-19, and I started getting better at about 22 years old.

I have very good memories of the last 20 years or so...see told you I was getting better!



It used to anger and frighten me this lack of knowledge of my own life...until I realised it was my safety mechanism my brain gave me!! So I accept it.



It is interesting to note that this board has allowed me to have more memories surface so that I could heal them. I am very grateful for that!



Thanks again for your kindness.Sure don't seem like the big bully to me!! (LOL)

 
As an aside, it is truly no wonder that I have never had a religion to bond and believe in! What with Temple Beth El services on the Sabbath, followed by confession Sat afternoons before Mass at St Paul's Sun sabbath.
Then with each of my mother's marriages (she's on #5 now and only 59 yrs old--yes i am 43 almost 44...LOL) came a different religion: Episcopal, Methodist, Prsbyterian (that big on on Tyrone/9thAve N.).....Crazy.Each of them all said they were right!...

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:46 ]

71
The Seed Discussion Forum / The humiliating seed!
« on: July 23, 2002, 02:24:00 PM »
Gee greg. i don't know that it was so bad.i am still alive, I read about people that killed their kids all the time...they just tried to kill my spirit...

You know how people always say, If I could only go back in time....never have I said that! Life just gets better for me as I get older and wiser (lol)



My father died several years ago result of his alcoholism and diabetes dual diseases! I had not seen him for some time prior to that (I wrote about it in diff post, I'm sure you'll see it).

My mother and I had come a long way...until I recently found out (Jan) that she has been having a secret relationship,for the last 10 years, with the brother that raped me!!That is truly an unforgivable issue with me. At this time, I am attempting to figure out what type of (if any) relationship she and I will have in the future.

GREG, I do believe that we were in fact  robbed of our youth, our innocence, our trust, our ability to bond with and be emotionally intimate with another person...!I also think the 12 Steps are good things to live by, I do work them, but in a much different manner and much safer place than where we were so brutally betrayed.

I think I do remember Rod,ask him if he remembers me, I worked in the salad area in kitchen under Johnny Whipple. I became good friends with many people there, Ron Hilliard,Franklin, Steven,...

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:27 ]

72
The Seed Discussion Forum / A very young (11 years old Seedling)
« on: July 23, 2002, 02:00:00 PM »
Greg wrote:" Most people just stop taking drugs, or robbing houses, or whatever. Some Die. Some end up in jail. This is life.But taking a whole class of kids... convincing them they are addicts, making publiclly confess to crimes, locking them up ..."reeducation camp" is wrong. In fact, things that went on there were criminal. "



I wholeheartedly agree.


I also think sometimes we, in this safe place,have to agree to disagree.
otherwise, we are just as cruel and judgemental as they taught us to be in the program.

I personally believe that Marnie's feelings of gratitude towards the Seed and it's ability to "save" her brother's life, is simply an indication of the ability of the Seed to "program" its inmates.

She was a very impressionable 11 years old when indoctrinated with the programs' hype. So I think it is to be expected that the basic tenants of belief are still with her.
 
That does not take away from my ability to state my feelings about the irrevocable harm that the Seed did to me and my family.
I have a brother I have not seen in 25 years, following his violent rape of me.A father, a stepmother and stepsister I have not seen in almost 13 years, because they were too unhealthy for me to be around with my young son. In fact my father died, 6 years ago, following his taking me to court to sue for visitation of my son  and yes I did win that particular battle).I took my responsibility seriously as a parent to ensure that he was in emotionally healthy environments,& treated with love,respect and courtesy. I did not want him to have to have the same type of baggage that I have.
 I have much younger bro and sis that I am just now learning to value and love because I was not living in their home as they grew up.

 
So Marnie, while I accept your belief that the Seed healed your brother I would appreciate your understanding of the damage it did to me.

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:09 ]

73
The Seed Discussion Forum / The humiliating seed!
« on: July 23, 2002, 09:54:00 AM »
Perhaps there was talk about me...I don't know.
 I had been working at Aunt Hatties restaurant (& later Uncle Ed's) and handing my paycheck to my father.
 He gave me back $10, for my spending money. The rest was room and board.Imagine asking your 14 yr old to pay for the priviledge of living at home: getting beat 3-4 time/week,being called a slut and a whore almost daily (Note,I was still a virgin), cleaning the house daily, and deeply on Sat, (siblings had no chores), setting up dinner between school and work, coming home at 11 pm, doing the dinner dishes, homework and crawling into bed about 1am so I could get up at 5 and do it all over again.
 

The Williams' family had offered to let me live with them, but my father refused. Oh, How I paid for that request!


Finally, he pulled me out of bed at 3:30 one morning screaming at me and beating me because "How dareI sneak out of the house", "stop pretending you were sleeping" ....I was grounded at the time for a B on my report card.Only allowed to go to school and work. which is truly what i had done! I never snuck out...not once.

 I guess the clean dishes, the finished homework, and the folded laundry did not count. I could not prove I had been home, since everybody had been sleeping when I got in and started on my nightly chores.He only broke 2 ribs that night, but I was able to get him to sign that damn paper! I felt so good~~did not know how good I could feel until then.

 I got a small apt downtown 3rd St & 6th Ave S. in an older home that had been made into apts. I was the only person under 65 there and I loved it! Cost $90/month including utilities! The electric wires were in metal tubing running along the whole place and I thought it was grand!

 My mother came over saw it hated it, but no offer to live w/her family!...soon Dad got me fired from Job, but I was taken in by the older people, they cooked me dinner and left groceries for me...how very kind they were! Then I found another job and moved closer to it as I had no car and relied on the bus system to go to work and school.


I was very lucky.I am very grateful that I survived!

My younger brother came to live with me within 6 months as Dad kicked him out.He lived w/me for 3 years, I never recieved any funds from dad or Mom for him, so I worked 2 jobs for a long time to support him while he went to school.

 PS Needless to say I did not let my son get a job until 11th grade, and even then PT only 2-6 pm at a law office in town. He has never had to pay for living with me! I bought his first car, pay his insurance and he has a gas card to use!



_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 06:57 ]

74
The Seed Discussion Forum / One of the beatings
« on: July 23, 2002, 09:23:00 AM »
FREEDOM:"I have no need to re-hash the past as i was accused of this week, but I do have a desire to hear others who share my experience so I can gain understanding and heal."

My perception of this board is the same.
 I am not on some type of pity trip.
 I do think it is valid to attempt to understand that our feelings of isolation, fear, shame, guilt, and anger are real and a consequence of our experiences at "The Seed" indeed.

I, like many I realise now, had only smoked pot prior to entering the program. Of course I was called a "liar" and learned by other's examples to make my list much longer in order to be considered "honest". Of course when I did resume drugs...I did make the list real. LOL.
 I am now sober almost 21 years.I submit that the person I am now is the sum of the experiences I have had in my life. Good and Bad, along with the way I choose to respond to them.I do happen to like myself now. It took a very long time to deprogram myself from the emotional abuse I suffered at the hands of my father. At least I honestly know who I am now.

While as a parent, I understand the feelings of fear our parents must have had...their choice was more harmful, I think, than the consequences our behavior might have been. It is nice to know that I am not alone in feeling that I was betrayed in my youth by those that were supposed to be helping and protecting me.

I am sorry to rant on, but I thought this was a place of acceptance, not judgement of each other, did we not do too much of this destructive behavior in group?
 I thank all of you for being here and listening. I am very glad I found this site. It has helped me to be more open about my experience with my son and my husband. Perhaps they understand a bit more about my more extreme views of my life.

75
The Seed Discussion Forum / question for Debbie
« on: July 23, 2002, 08:56:00 AM »
No I went to St Paul's and Temple Beth El until 2nd grade, moved to Tampa (mom's 3rd marriage) until I was out of 7th grade, then i moved to St Pete with my father. Started 8th grade at Tyrone Jr High,the Seed happened, then I went to Gibbs.

Some of those names are familiar to me.Toby Shea seems familiar. Did you know a Steve Levin (Tackle Shack)? Linda or Bob Beaudette? Mark Sibilia?
 I was friends mainly with a Cindy Shook,& Terri Williams before the Seed, since I was new to area and shy... I did not make many friends. I was living with an active alcoholic (did not know that my father was that until I was there) and it was very embarrassing to have people over because it could be a bad place to be.So I quickly learned to not have people in the house.

My father did belong to Elks and we were there quite abit (cheap way to drink)... we lived on 23rd Ave N and 50th St.

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