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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 23, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
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The ONLY one I remember is:
"Guys must wear shirts, chicks must wear bras, and everyone must wear hard-soled shoes."
Of course, since I was eleven, it was quite an (enjoyable) novelty to be thought of as a "chick" AND to wear a bra!
I wonder if the other real young kids were, like me, too enamoured with "being around older kids" (and being thought of one) to have taken anything else to heart.
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i was at the cleveland seed. remember the rule "smoking on the hour'????
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Dave Moss here. Cleveland Seed. Thanks Karen K :smile:
too cool.
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Dave, what year?
I was there in the last three months before it moved to Florida.
w
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I think I remember that name. Did you move down to FL ?
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It was "smoking on the hour, and when Senior Staff smokes."
Whenver the rap leader would light up, a virtual cloud of ciggie smoke would rise up to the ceiling of that 105 degree warehouse, mixing with the smell of fiberglass and human sweat.
rules? How about "no talking to the press"
After reading the early 70s era articles about Art and the Seed, one needn't ponder this rule for too long.
:grin: :grin:
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Welcome Dave M.!
Please tell us something you remember about the Clevland Seed, and thanks for posting.
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my memory is shit. but i think it was "76". And no. i did not go to florida.
i was 14 years old when my parents "enrolled" me in the seed. but ya' know what. I had OD'd 3 or 4 times on tuanal's. so i was like 'whatever". that pretty much was my atitude throughout my time at the seed. i did graduate (took forevever). during my time there and after, i was havin a ball being able to do drugs and not OD!
what i remember about the seed. Hmmmm. well, i could'nt wait for lunch/dinner time. cleaning the big block spanish tile floor in the main hallway behind the 'rap room". doing silly excersises downstairs in some tacky basement. always being told i had a bad attitude by the staff. (i did. like i said earlier "whatever"). Playing softball in the summer. feeling awsome when we would have a "rap'" outside in nice weather.
i did vibe with staff members scotty & terry. they were funny.
and my mom used to bring in the best food for all of us to eat at dinner time.
[ This Message was edited by: dave-m on 2006-04-24 13:38 ]
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Dave,
I visited the Cleveland Seed building recently and the block tile is still there. Remember the fire place with some fancy tiles in it in the rap room? Remember the saint statues near the front door? They're gone now. Or did I imagine them?
When did you graduate? Do you remember Alex, whose parents owned a restaurant? Do you remember Miller's? Another restaurant. Aparently I'm obsessed with food.
Scott and Terry. Well, I knew them too. Scott was hilarious - remember the story about getting a black eye and putting a steak on it and passing out, or something like that? He was the reason I said Yes to coming into the Seed.
I still live in Cleveland, by the way. Doing well.
w
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I got a rule EVERYBODY WEAR HARD SOLE SHOES!!!!
Dave I am glad your on board Karen
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what's up W! (who are you? do you know me? do i know you?)
BIG SHOUT OUT to Karen K. Did we REALLY have that amazing conversation over the phone two day's ago? yep.
Y O U R O C K! i appreciate our friendship and never take it for granite. 20 + years strong and gettin' better each year.
W. I don't know when i graduated. Hell, i can't even remember where the f#@k i put my car key's. but i did graduate. and yes, i do remember the tacky statues and the fireplace.
but check this out. Remember how they used to drill into our impressionable little minds that are parents were the BOMB and we weren't? shit, my mom was cool and all but she really needed to be medicated.
i bet there are allot of us who had destructive parents and we kept thinking everything was our fault.
i made peace with all that stuff many years later after i read this book called TOXIC PARENTS.
W. i live in los angeles.
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hey dave it is may of 76 we entered as little seedings on the front row together........heck we were 'druggie' friends before that........i'll never tell your age!!!and yes dolores [dave's mom ] made the best food to bring in... no pb/j when she was running the kichen.........karen
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Dave,
Were you on the front row with my brother, Evan? Check out the link above, from the Cato institute. Very interesting. He ran away three times...and he also lives in LA today.
Yeah, I also read Toxic Parents. Turned out my mom, a very wonderful person, also seems to have had some major depression, manic depression, and was working her way up to full blown alcoholism. She was pretty nutty during my teen years, not much support there, although she was 'doing her best' under the circumstances. My dad was the classic work twelve hours, come home, have a couple of drinks, and zone out kind of guy...no softball leagues or camping trips for me. It wasn't all bad, but that was a big part of what I was missing when I went into the seed - parenting. My parents were trying to raise themsilves - both came from families where heavy drinking was normal. I waited until my late 40s to have a child, hope to god I'm ready now.
Whatever Seed kids I ran into during my first three months were a blur, unless I lived with them, and even those memories are hazy...
Take care.
w
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Actually Karen, I remember your x mother-in-law as being the best cook for lunches. I still remember that after 30 years.
I think the average kid gained 20 lbs back then.
no food deprevation going on according to my scales.
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I definitely felt that way when I came into the program, equal parts fear and awe. I exaggerated my drug use in my interview cause I wanted to impress Suzy and Scott. After I was admitted, and Scott was introducing me, saying my name and the drugs I'd done (pot and alcohol) he asked if I wanted to add any other drugs-- even though my parents had just left me in this weird place and I was really scared I had to stifle a smile. It stroked my to my 12yr old ego.
Had no idea what I was in for
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I remember my first confessional at open meeting. I had done a few drugs once like mesc and qualudes, but when I listed them I just knew I sounded SO hardcore because you don't say "and I tried qualudes once and got sick".instead you just list it like it was an everyday occurance.
I also listed marijuana as three drugs..pot, thc and hash. I was also sure to list all the stuff I had been accused of in intake when Brucie boy kept coming back saying "this person in group says they did acid blah blah with you".
All this was really just a copy of the people ahead of me. When I got done, not to be outdone by others older and more hard than me, I ad libbed proudly "and everything I could find in any medicine cabinet". Then I sat down triumphantly.
hehe..what a crock.
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W. I don't know if i was on the front row with Evan. most names are a blur. Some names stand out. mostly staff members.
I do remember BIG FRED. super cool looking dude. older hardcore druggie. kinda guy you would be affraid of(or sexually attracted to).
however, he was a teddy bear. really nice, humble & kind.
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Yes the X mother in law was an amazing cook I loved pickin' her brain on cooking. She passed away last March..........she is free at last!
I finally watched the cato.org video.........must see.....incrediable message Evan and Maia gave....I'm getting the books....
another rule chain of commands....never go to the senior staff for anything or Art Karen
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On 2006-04-25 12:44:00, GregFL wrote:
"I remember my first confessional at open meeting. I had done a few drugs once like mesc and qualudes, but when I listed them I just knew I sounded SO hardcore because you don't say "and I tried qualudes once and got sick".instead you just list it like it was an everyday occurance.
<
If, when you stood to say your name, age and what drugs you did. If you had said I tried qualudes once and got sick do they think staff would have stopped you?
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Dave M - I am trying to place you, i dont remember the name. I came in in March of 1976. Jim B. (probably was still called Jimmy in those days). I had a brother Bobby (magician) and sister Mary in the program too.
I remember Fred - he was from Lakewood, had a tatoo on his forearm that said "White Folks" in like gothic letters.
I am trying to remember people on the front row with me, there was this rolly polly 13 yr old kidJimmy M. from the west side (kinda a little punk), Steve someone (he had made his own tatoo of his grilfriends name, Sandy, on his hand - he split after a few months - got started over, split again, never heard from again), Tony K. (blonde lanky guy from Parma), girls - ther were these 2 girls from St Clairsville, Kim, and I cant remember the other one, but she would never turn her head in order to not muss up her hair (it was long - eventually they got her to give in to the standard short cropped lesbian haircut that was standard in the group), she would shift her entire body from the waist to turn and look at who was speaking. Also, Suzanne B (she had an older sister stephanie who came in first, split, got dragged back in and reemed in front of the group and was started over) - I think their dad was a doctor at the cleveland clinic - they moved to TX.
The group was still small, as the Seed had only been in Cleveland for about 8-9 months at that point.
Karen - I think i have vague recollection of you & your sisters - were you from the east side?
[ This Message was edited by: soflajb on 2006-05-07 11:21 ][ This Message was edited by: soflajb on 2006-05-07 18:42 ]
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Didn't Jimmy get started over when he was on his three nights. I think that was the kid. He was stood up yelled at for a long, long while and then marched back to the front row. Never knew why, scared the shit out of me.
Suzanna and Stephanie, they were the sisters with the father who was a doctor. They were shaker kids like me so we used to car pool together. I remember hearing that Stephanie had split a few times when she first came in. It was always so hard for me to imagine her as someone who had bolted cause she seemed so limp by the time I knew her.
I remember Fred, was never close enough to see his tattoo but I do remember him. One of the few non-white seedlings. He was older right, back to work not back to school?
As I remember it, we all turned our entire bodies around to look at the person who was speaking, turning just ones head didn't show the proper enthusiasm.
Theres a girl who's name I am trying to remember.
She was on the front row when my parents brought me to an open meeting. She had platinum hair. At the open meeting she said she wanted to make staff so I was suprised when I was admitted to see that she was actually pretty resistant. I think she was on her front row for a long while. When I came in(late may 76) she was on the front row with me and had apparently been there awhile. I remember once she got told off during a rap about work when she said that she intented to be an artist(the right answer was, of course, some profession that would allow you to help others---"that is if I don't make staff."
She got started over after she went back to school for hanging out with old friends.
ring any bells
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On 2006-05-08 06:07:00, NOT12NOW wrote:
"Didn't Jimmy get started over when he was on his three nights. I think that was the kid. He was stood up yelled at for a long, long while and then marched back to the front row. Never knew why, scared the shit out of me.
Suzanna and Stephanie, they were the sisters with the father who was a doctor. They were shaker kids like me so we used to car pool together. I remember hearing that Stephanie had split a few times when she first came in. It was always so hard for me to imagine her as someone who had bolted cause she seemed so limp by the time I knew her.
I remember Fred, was never close enough to see his tattoo but I do remember him. One of the few non-white seedlings. He was older right, back to work not back to school?
As I remember it, we all turned our entire bodies around to look at the person who was speaking, turning just ones head didn't show the proper enthusiasm.
Theres a girl who's name I am trying to remember.
She was on the front row when my parents brought me to an open meeting. She had platinum hair. At the open meeting she said she wanted to make staff so I was suprised when I was admitted to see that she was actually pretty resistant. I think she was on her front row for a long while. When I came in(late may 76) she was on the front row with me and had apparently been there awhile. I remember once she got told off during a rap about work when she said that she intented to be an artist(the right answer was, of course, some profession that would allow you to help others---"that is if I don't make staff."
She got started over after she went back to school for hanging out with old friends.
ring any bells
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Not12Now - PLEASE make sure you always quantifiy which Jimmy you are talking about LOL - I have been mistaken for him by others in their foggy memories of the Seed and I would NEVER want to be mistaken for Jimmy M. We were both kids (he was 13 I was 14) and both kinda chubby, - but he had a real attitude problem, refused to take showers/ baths like a little kid (and yes he stunk in the group sometimes), etc - yes he split and was started over. Hopefully his personal hygeine changed with age.
Fred was white, 22 yrs old, and seemed ancient to me at that time. You may be thinking of Quinton R or a real quiet black guy named mike i think (lasr name started with a "W") Besides Kevin from shaker, those are the only black guys i remember at the seed.
And yes you remember the "B" sisters - their dad also used to do physicals for newcomers too.
I cant remember the platinum girl you're referring to.
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Sorry there, Jim B., didn't mean to question your personal hygeine.
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:lol:
LOL - no worries - but i was horrified once when i bumped into a seed guy's older sister around 1988 and she remembered me but had confused her memories of me with those of him - i had stayed with them when i was a new comer back home (but not really as i live out of town) he had been a newcomer in their house and some days it was literally like trying to get a little child to bathe - and all those years she thought it was ME that did this!!
i remember you really well, must have been the novelty of how young you were. i remember you wnet on permissions with my sister - you went to randall park mall and ate at a hamburger joint that had a western theme and you guys (your mom included) sat at the tables for kids where the seats were actually saddles (i remember my sister telling me about it) - i guess it was to prove how not into acceptance or being worried about being cool you guys were.
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that was me above = forgot to log in
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i remember you wnet on permissions with my sister - you went to randall park mall and ate at a hamburger joint that had a western theme and you guys (your mom included) sat at the tables for kids where the seats were actually saddles (i remember my sister telling me about it) - i guess it was to prove how not into acceptance or being worried about being cool you guys were."
That actually seems like something I'd do now for kicks, so maybe I did find ways to have some fun in those days. Your sister must have been one of the girls I felt least threatened by. Where is she now? You have no idea how happy it makes me to be reminded of events where I actually might have had a good time while I was at the seed.
The guy I was thinking of must have been Quentin
cause I Kevin and I were close after we graduated-so I knew him well and the guy I was thinking of wasn't quiet. He had a good singing voice, Art would get him up in front to sing.
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Cleveland chick 76-77[ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-05-09 06:51 ]
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Soflajab...........I was on the front row May of 76 Dave M came in shortly after me we were "druggie" friends and still awesome friends today. We were both from the eastside...shit I still am. Dave is in L A. I remember the girls from St Clairsville........and Suzzane and Stephanie...This site is great for clearing the cobwebs.........NOT12NOW I remember Quentin I think he was good friends with my X Jon P. This is good .......... I am remembering all that stuff I stuffed Also Ellen W, Rhea, Christine???? Karen K
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Karen you married Jon P?
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I remember Ellen particularly from car pool. My mom got a cb radio which we all played with-- Ellen's handle was the wild west.
She was also in the greaser girls act in the seed anniversary show with me (1976.) When we were Getting into character in the parking lot, acting druggy and aggressive, she actually scared me.
Other than that moment when I realized she could beat the shit out of me I was comfortable with her. She was very NY funny.
Does anybody else remember that weird talent show thing that year. We did this very silly one that Art apparently didn't like?
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Loretta, Mary from Parma.
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Hows Jon's sister Lynn? Whats she up to these days?
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The last time I saw her was at Susie C.'s about 1990 or so after she divorced Phil S.(not the redheaded Phil.
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Who was the kid from Lancaster he and Jon P kinda hung out I think. He looked kinda like a 16 yr old Chevy Chase?
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Lynnie is a doctor living in Gand Rapids married and has 12 yr. old She is very happy...Karen K
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[/quote]Anonymous wrote:
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And what a silly rule that was. I only saw Art from the audience when he did his benevolent holiness act. I remember him looking around when he announced graduates to see who popped up. He didn't even know my name and there was a chance I might ask him if I could go to the Mall with Karen and my mother? Get a clue
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Cleveland chick 76-77[ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-05-10 16:56 ][ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-05-10 16:56 ][ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-05-10 16:59 ]
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Sorry screwed up quotes. I was trying to reference Karens mention of a rule--not going over staff's head and no going to Art for anything.
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On 2006-05-10 09:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who was the kid from Lancaster he and Jon P kinda hung out I think. He looked kinda like a 16 yr old Chevy Chase? "
I remember him but cant remember the name but i am thinking it was John also.
wasnt the other chick from st clairsville Tammy? Shes the one who wouldnt turn her head so as not to mess up her hairdo (until they finally convinved her to cut it real short). I remember there was a graduate guy from st clairsville too who showed up occasionally (i think he went to the seed in fl)- and one of the 2 girls told on the other one in the group for supposedly flirting with him - i remember her getting reamed for what seemed like an hour - eyes on the floor, beat red face, poor think - i really felt bad for her.
Karen - I woulda just been leaving the group for my weekend program about the time you came in but i am pretty sure i have a mental picture of you now - was one of your sisters real lanky and kinda shy & quiet?
they sent me back home around the end of may - i jumped right from newcomer at home (foster home) to on my 3 nights, and actually lived back in Alliance during the week and then came in for entire weekend each week - i was the first they did this with, but it was eventually used for all the kids down our way - the whole Carrollton crew(Tom D, Don J, Tom M, Cathy P, Terry, and 2 sisters whose name i cant remember right now, Keith C) and Canton (Arden & Tim G - brothers, Peggy J).
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I'm at work - forgot to log in again - thats me above
Jim
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During these "rap" sessions, were the kids told to "enter some profession that would allow you to help others?"
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We weren't really told. We weren't instructed in much more than the fact that we were shit.
But it sucked there and I wanted out, badly. To move ahead--and out, you did and said and aspired to the same things the rest of the group did and said and aspired too. Everyone else "shared" their dreams for a future in which they would be helping others-- if they didn't make staff of course. My professed dream was to be a juvenile court judge, so I could send kids to the seed. That was my line and I stuck to with hysterical glee.
There was a girl there with me who got really told off when she said she intended to be an artist. For that penalty she was told she was shit in every possible way for several hours.
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Was that Leeann?
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No it was a younger girl. She was like fifteen, I think, she had very blonde hair. I can't remember her name. She started a few weeks before me so she was a newcomer early in may 76. Later when she was back at school she split and got started over again.