Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Brat Camp => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 02, 2005, 03:25:00 PM
-
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 3697
Registered: June 03, 2003
Posts: 385
Email Address: [email protected]
Location: Dallas, TX
Occupation: Attorney
Interests: Pets, Running
Birth Date: September 12, 1952
What is your purpose in registering on this Board? (Specifics Please): Son went to wilderness and TBS
AIM ID: NikeKSA1
--------
Some sample posts to get to know our new little friend...
'Lori, I'm so sorry. Yes, maybe the message he needs is that you have stopped caring. He isn't 18 yet, though. Not sure of your state's law, but you are probably still legally responsible for him.'
'I'm sorry about your job- I've been "idle" for a few months, too. This lawyer-stuff isn't so secure anymore.
Karen'
Trouble at work Karen.. oh , what a shame!
'Your daughter's anger is very normal. Think about it- she has gotten away with her behaviors for a long time and now you have taken extreme action. She will use every tool she has to hurt and scare you. Stay strong.
Karen'
'Hiring escorts was one of the most "humane" things we ever did for our son. We had lost control. We could not possibly have gotten him to a program without him running from us and perhaps being lost to us forever. The compassionate, professional escorts we hired had an extremely difficult time transporting our son, but they never once gave up or abused him in any way, even when he nearly killed them and himself by grabbing the steering wheel of the car from the backseat. My son never questioned our use of escorts, even in his anger at being in wilderness and later at TBS. Today we are the proud parents of a student-athlete who is achieving his full potential.'
'We didn't talk to our son for 7 or 8 weeks. We received and wrote weekly letters which were faxed in both directions. I think it is better for the kids- and the parents- NOT to speak. Obviously the dialogue at home was not productive, and that dynamic can interfere with the therapeutic process. The therapist at wilderness knew when the time was right for a short phone call.
We are ALL parents here, but sometimes removing yourself from the enmeshment is the best thing for all involved.'
'Well- both of mine were screwed up. Daughter acted "in" and handled her depression by cutting. We were able to treat her locally and a change in school environment helped a lot. She remained successful academically through the whole thing. Son acted "out" and required programs. Lots of their issues arose from our parenting, but not all. It is a tough time to be a teenager, and a tough time to be a parent.'
'You guys forgot "spend too much"!
Even my wonderful, talented, brilliant 20 year old daughter who just finished a ministry discernment internship can be surly, self-centered and generally unpleasant. On occasion, I refer to her as "Reverend B----".'
responding to criticism of BRAT CAMP'
'Maybe there is something wrong with me, but I am just not that horrified by it. I DO worry about the effect on the kids, but to me it is better for the mass public to view than Survivor or Anna Nicole Smith et al. If some viewing parents see these teens and hear their behavior described and realize that their own teens are in desperate need of help, then the show will have done some good. I meet many families who try to "stick it out" and think some of these really risky behaviors are "normal teen stuff". Maybe this show will wake some people up.'
'Lori- good for you for getting him back to the RTC. I know it is hard, but what a relief for you to know that he is safe and working on his problem. My son told me that many, many of the kids from his TBS have fallen back into their old patterns. It is, unfortunately, very common, despite our best efforts as parents. Keep us posted on his progress.'
'Overlordd, your credibility on this site is non-existent. Please go back to Dev-ville, or whereever you came from.'
----------------
How sad to be this woman's children.
-
::bump:: :grin:
-
a quote by the troll at fornits
An "open" discussion, as in 'if you agree with us that all programs are abusive and they're all run by the spawn of Satan', welcome aboard. However, if you try to say that some programs are worthwhile, get ready for the namecalling and parent bashing.
a quote by Karen taken from struggling teens
Well- both of mine were screwed up. Daughter acted "in" and handled her depression by cutting. We were able to treat her locally and a change in school environment helped a lot. She remained successful academically through the whole thing. Son acted "out" and required programs. Lots of their issues arose from our parenting, but not all. It is a tough time to be a teenager, and a tough time to be a parent.
The writing styles are identical. How many use quotations on words like: open, in, out. Nobody. Well, except Karen that is.
To view her recent posts at struggling teens {just in case you still doubt the troll is Karen}
http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... u=00003697 (http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=recent_user_posts;u=00003697)
I'm sure she will come troll in here to defend herself, she is a lawyer and all.
:wave:
-
You can ask her yourself if you have AIM
screename: NikeKSA1
-
the troll I am referring to is the one in this thread
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 250#120223 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=250#120223)
-
This troll is a lawyer who posts ad nauseum on Struggling Teens?
Baaaaawaaaaaaaahahhaaaa!
Sounds to me like this parent needs to get a life and stop meddling in the lives of other kids and their parents vis a vis the ST Forum.
Hey, anybody know a good support group for persons addicted to struggling teens we can refer this troll to?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
-
Only 76 views?
::bump::
The best part- when you google this trolls name now, fornits shows up. Priceless. :tup:
-
By the way KAREN,
I'll see you over at the college confidential boards. :wave:
-
Im guessing by your hotmail email address, your real name is something close to KAREN AUSTIN?
Only one yield when I searched YAHOO people for this. I wonder if this is actually KARENS phone numbers??
(214) 349-1517
-
Anyways, I'm done with this troll. I am going to go for a stroll at Fair Oaks park. :wave:
-
100 views aint bad... lets see if we can get it up to a thousand though.
::smokingun:: ::fuckoff:: ::both::
-
There are a lot of people at Fornits that have something valuable to say but its a pain in the butt to have to weed through crap like this to get to the stuff that really matters.
Whats the point???? This is the kind of crap that makes you look like a bunch of whiny kids with bad attitudes.
Zzzzzzzz
-
HAHA Nice try Karen
If you dont want to read it, DONT CLICK IT EINSTEIN!
-
On 2005-08-02 16:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are a lot of people at Fornits that have something valuable to say but its a pain in the butt to have to weed through crap like this to get to the stuff that really matters.
Whats the point???? This is the kind of crap that makes you look like a bunch of whiny kids with bad attitudes.
Zzzzzzzz"
This is mine - and Im not Karen.
-
Yeah I figured that out once I saw your post in the other thread.
Nobody cares.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
:wave:
-
PS:
Karen is my term for annoying troll, so don't take it personally.
:wave:
-
Lordy, a person would have to have a pretty thin skin to take anything personally here!
-
On 2005-08-02 17:23:00, Shortbus wrote:
"Lordy, a person would have to have a pretty thin skin to take anything personally here!
"
:rofl: :rofl:
VERY TRUE!
-
I don't know the legal side of thing---but you've named (and given a phone number even) for somebody as being the author of posts here---and if, for some reason, you're wrong and/or if people call this number and bother this person---aren't you risking a lot of problems in terms of the slander laws.
I don't know much about computers but in day-to day life, you can't just publish stuff in the paper about somebody and then say, "oophs I guess this isn't the right Jane Doe"---you'd be in for a lot of trouble legally.
So if--for instance-- you posted this phone number and it turns out that this person is not really the one who made the posts you are talking about---aren't you risking some kind of harrassment type of law suit? I mean if you could find her, she can find or hire somebody to find you
Especially if the person who you have listed the phone number for really is a lawyer for god's sake.
-
You aren't the first person to threaten legal 'slander' suits over posts at fornits. It's laughable isn't it? Well, welcome to the club, only about 500 people have done this before you.
You scare no one.
-
What is slanderous about any of it anyways, just to humor us all?
Go to http://people.yahoo.com/ (http://people.yahoo.com/)
Enter KAREN AUSTIN - DALLAS, TEXAS
and press submit
you get something that looks like this
http://phone.people.yahoo.com/py/psPhon ... ess+Search (http://phone.people.yahoo.com/py/psPhoneSearch.py?srch=bas&D=1&FirstName=Karen&LastName=Austin&City=Dallas&State=TX&Phone=&Search=Phone+and+Address+Search)
This is all information surmised from posts on the internet. What's illegal about that? :rofl: :lol:
-
didnt this woman say she was a lawyer..... legal thrats is all she knows.. hahahaha .. good try tho lady
-
while I don't agree with posting personal information, it does seem a little like a double-standard considering the paretns on ST go and talk about their kids and their kids' problems to the hills. also ,if this woman has a son acting out and a daughter cutting on herself, maybe she needs to look a little closer at the home situation.
-
On 2005-08-02 18:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't know the legal side of thing---but you've named (and given a phone number even) for somebody as being the author of posts here---and if, for some reason, you're wrong and/or if people call this number and bother this person---aren't you risking a lot of problems in terms of the slander laws.
I don't know much about computers but in day-to day life, you can't just publish stuff in the paper about somebody and then say, "oophs I guess this isn't the right Jane Doe"---you'd be in for a lot of trouble legally.
So if--for instance-- you posted this phone number and it turns out that this person is not really the one who made the posts you are talking about---aren't you risking some kind of harrassment type of law suit? I mean if you could find her, she can find or hire somebody to find you
Especially if the person who you have listed the phone number for really is a lawyer for god's sake."
Seeing as I started this thread I suppose I should respond. You see, this troll chose to come over to fornits with the sole purpose of starting trouble. I don't appreciate people posting without accountability, sound familiar?, so I decided to quote her posts from struggling trolls.
Everything quoted here was simply copy/pasted, so that is hardly slander. I was only guessing your last name is Austin judging by your email- information you decided to post on the internet. Searching yahoo people for a name I don't even know is real, is hardly a crime. Again, all public information. If you don't want information like this posted about you online, in any context, keep it private. Your choice. Why don't you take some accountability?
So to answer your questions, no, I am not risking any kind of lawsuit. I am simply passing along public information, put out there by the person themselves. Ain't the information age grand? :tup:
-
AND, on the flip-side of your argument, the only way for YOU to find out MY information would be to pay someone to hack into this website, which is illegal. Tell me, how do you file a lawsuit based on illegally obtained information?
Thanks for the humor though.
-
and on second thought, I post as anonymous, so I have no information for you to gain. I am on dialup so my IP changes.. how exactly would you find out who I am? Please tell me. :rofl: :rofl:
Unless you can figure it out.. hmm.. did I leave as many trails as you did?
Good luck!
-
Maybe you're right, like I say i am just watching this (I've worked some years as a paralegal but not on internet issues)---but you state that you "guessed" that this troll's name was Austin and then posted a phone number.
If this is indeed not the phone number of the person who you are after (or even if it is--since the posting could constitute an argument for maliciousness) I'm not sure you're off the hook even in the information age if somebody gets bothered or even hurt because of your action---that's especially true if this lawyer decides to go after you---cuz much of this kind of stuff is law-in-the-making and a lawyer doesn;t even have to go out and hire somebody to do her business
Maybe it's just me--but if I were in your position--I'd be somewhat careful about what I did with other people's information
-
Eh, I don't really care, seeing as- YOU CANT DO SHIT ABOUT IT. :scared: :roll:
-
Wow, when you guys go after some one you really go after some one. :nworthy: :smile:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Youre intimating that shes the one - and then posting her personal info, which we know is easily found. But you dont know for sure who anon is. Id be pissed and justifiably so if you picked me out of a line up to fuck with. And you would be too if you were on the receiving end.
-
UH OH, better SUE GOOGLE TOO!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ka ... gle+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=karen+austin+dallas+texas&btnG=Google+Search)
-
if the anon posting the information was wrong, im sure this thread would have died. anyone think im wrong? :wink:
-
On 2005-08-02 18:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"UH OH, better SUE GOOGLE TOO!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ka ... gle+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=karen+austin+dallas+texas&btnG=Google+Search)"
thats just retarded
-
Well, no.
Legally---if there is an argument that you are doing something that violates the rights of others---no, somebody would not have to illegally hack into the system to find out who you are---they could get a governmentally approved warrant to obtain your identifying information (any judge can allow this)---something that is not impossible to do even when you've taken steps to make it more difficult
-
original poster again. sure, its a dick thing to do whether I am right or wrong, I'll be the first to admit it... but who said im nice.
is it illegal.. haha, of course not. nothing here but information already found elsewhere. do i really care what troll paralegsla have to say, no.
so ya, its fucked up. let it be a warning to the struggling trolls who come over here with the intent to insult and inflame. :flame:
ill be happy to post a map too... im having fun on this side still.
-
On 2005-08-02 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well, no.
Legally---if there is an argument that you are doing something that violates the rights of others---no, somebody would not have to illegally hack into the system to find out who you are---they could get a governmentally approved warrant to obtain your identifying information (any judge can allow this)---something that is not impossible to do even when you've taken steps to make it more difficult"
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
On 2005-08-02 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well, no.
Legally---if there is an argument that you are doing something that violates the rights of others---no, somebody would not have to illegally hack into the system to find out who you are---they could get a governmentally approved warrant to obtain your identifying information (any judge can allow this)---something that is not impossible to do even when you've taken steps to make it more difficult"
Hey Karen, nice to see you again. Your writing style is unmistakable. :wave:
-
No---see, it's not about Google---it's about somebody willfully taking private info about a person (maybe the person targeted, maybe not---I don't know)---if that somebody does infringe on somebody else's rights that way--well I think a whole lot of the new cyber legislation brings them right into the cross-hairs of the Feds---if somebody wronged chooses to pursue it...search warrants, damages, the whole ball of wax
-
Hey-- what info posted here was private? If it was private how could the poster access it simply by browsing the web?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM :lol:
Better call 911!
-
this is the funniest thread I've read in a few days. I love it when people start with the legal arguments, I'll look some of the classics up and post the links here. this is classic.
-
Karen is angry! arrrrrghhhh
-
On 2005-08-02 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 3697
Registered: June 03, 2003
Posts: 385
Email Address: [email protected]
Location: Dallas, TX
Occupation: Attorney
Interests: Pets, Running
Birth Date: September 12, 1952
What is your purpose in registering on this Board? (Specifics Please): Son went to wilderness and TBS
AIM ID: NikeKSA1
--------
Some sample posts to get to know our new little friend...
'Lori, I'm so sorry. Yes, maybe the message he needs is that you have stopped caring. He isn't 18 yet, though. Not sure of your state's law, but you are probably still legally responsible for him.'
'I'm sorry about your job- I've been "idle" for a few months, too. This lawyer-stuff isn't so secure anymore.
Karen'
Trouble at work Karen.. oh , what a shame!
'Your daughter's anger is very normal. Think about it- she has gotten away with her behaviors for a long time and now you have taken extreme action. She will use every tool she has to hurt and scare you. Stay strong.
Karen'
'Hiring escorts was one of the most "humane" things we ever did for our son. We had lost control. We could not possibly have gotten him to a program without him running from us and perhaps being lost to us forever. The compassionate, professional escorts we hired had an extremely difficult time transporting our son, but they never once gave up or abused him in any way, even when he nearly killed them and himself by grabbing the steering wheel of the car from the backseat. My son never questioned our use of escorts, even in his anger at being in wilderness and later at TBS. Today we are the proud parents of a student-athlete who is achieving his full potential.'
'We didn't talk to our son for 7 or 8 weeks. We received and wrote weekly letters which were faxed in both directions. I think it is better for the kids- and the parents- NOT to speak. Obviously the dialogue at home was not productive, and that dynamic can interfere with the therapeutic process. The therapist at wilderness knew when the time was right for a short phone call.
We are ALL parents here, but sometimes removing yourself from the enmeshment is the best thing for all involved.'
'Well- both of mine were screwed up. Daughter acted "in" and handled her depression by cutting. We were able to treat her locally and a change in school environment helped a lot. She remained successful academically through the whole thing. Son acted "out" and required programs. Lots of their issues arose from our parenting, but not all. It is a tough time to be a teenager, and a tough time to be a parent.'
'You guys forgot "spend too much"!
Even my wonderful, talented, brilliant 20 year old daughter who just finished a ministry discernment internship can be surly, self-centered and generally unpleasant. On occasion, I refer to her as "Reverend B----".'
responding to criticism of BRAT CAMP'
'Maybe there is something wrong with me, but I am just not that horrified by it. I DO worry about the effect on the kids, but to me it is better for the mass public to view than Survivor or Anna Nicole Smith et al. If some viewing parents see these teens and hear their behavior described and realize that their own teens are in desperate need of help, then the show will have done some good. I meet many families who try to "stick it out" and think some of these really risky behaviors are "normal teen stuff". Maybe this show will wake some people up.'
'Lori- good for you for getting him back to the RTC. I know it is hard, but what a relief for you to know that he is safe and working on his problem. My son told me that many, many of the kids from his TBS have fallen back into their old patterns. It is, unfortunately, very common, despite our best efforts as parents. Keep us posted on his progress.'
'Overlordd, your credibility on this site is non-existent. Please go back to Dev-ville, or whereever you came from.'
----------------
How sad to be this woman's children. "
-
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 330#120437 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=330#120437)
-
I am just watching this--not a party to it in any way-
But what crosses the line (at least as I understand the law) is taking a phone number from some directory and linking it to this particular poster---I don't know if this attorney Karen wants to do anything about it--but putting these pieces of info together---and they may in fact be put together wrongly if this poster does not in fact have this phone number (then you've harrassed some third party)---is a great way to get embroiled in a federal law suit
-
UHOHUHOH UHOH OUHO UHO !
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
linking to a phone number is a federal crime?
:scared: :rofl: :lol:
karen baby, you crack me the fuck up!
-
They flare up ocassionally. Reminds me of the time the program supporter posted the SS# of and anti-program parent.
It all comes out in the wash. I'm sure if Karen wants the information removed she'll contact Ginger, who will remove it if she deems that any laws have been violated. A lot less headache than extensive investigation that may or may not result in legal action.
Let's just hope some poor unexpecting woman in Dallas, named Karen Austin, isn't getting threatening phone calls out of the blue. Now, that's the person that should be pissed. I would be anyway.
-
My friend emailed me this link and asked me to chime in. I am an attorney in Calfornia. Rest assured fornits posters, nothing which has occured in this thread has broken any laws. Paralegal is legal slang for secretary more or less. We have to be politically correct these days. :wink:
-
If anyone makes threatening phone calls, that is their choice. This website is not liable.
I advise against calling this phone number, then they WILL have your information. Unless you call from a payphone. :wink:
-
It doesn't necessarily "come out in the wash".
If a federal law has been broken it's not necessarily enough for the site admin to remove the info. If a federal law has been broken, this means a crime has been committed and it will be up to the aggrieved parties (in this case maybe the poster Karen and/or whoever else has been inconvenienced---like some third party who may have had their number incorrectly listed) to decide how far to take this.
I'm just saying it's a lesson in behaving responsibly---how would you like a federal investigation hanging over you for the next 5 years or so, because you did some petty cyber thing---and the attorney you went after decided it was worth her time to do something about it?
-
I'm guessing all the information is correct judging by the response, that's just me though.
-
On 2005-08-02 19:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It doesn't necessarily "come out in the wash".
If a federal law has been broken it's not necessarily enough for the site admin to remove the info. If a federal law has been broken, this means a crime has been committed and it will be up to the aggrieved parties (in this case maybe the poster Karen and/or whoever else has been inconvenienced---like some third party who may have had their number incorrectly listed) to decide how far to take this.
I'm just saying it's a lesson in behaving responsibly---how would you like a federal investigation hanging over you for the next 5 years or so, because you did some petty cyber thing---and the attorney you went after decided it was worth her time to do something about it?"
name the federal law that has been broken please
-
No I'm not a lawyer but I'd be more reassured if the lawyer giving the opinion here were sure enough of her/his opinion on the law in this matter to post a name.
Otherwise all you have here is somebody who says they're a lawyer from California
Nasty crack at paralegals: wonder how that would be viewed by your professional association, bucko
-
My name is Michael Johnson, of Morro Bay, CA.
Using your logic, you have discounted your own arguments by not signing your name. No laws have been broken, that is why nobody will be able to answer the anon's question of what laws have been broken. None have.
-
My understanding is that if you've put out info tortiously about somebody (like listing a phone number wrongly and causing obscene phone calls or something) across state lines then it can become federal---is that what others understand?
-
Nope, you are simply wrong. Again, if you are familiar with the law, show us. Is there any precedent to what you are offering? Nope. I surmise you are the wronged person in this matter, if so, I suggest being careful where you post your information.
-
Well we already knew it was you Karen.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 330#120437 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=330#120437)
Your last post is a pack of lies, and you couldn't BE any more NON accountable, oh the irony. But whatever, I'm bored with this now. Maybe you struggling trolls will stay over at your site now?
-
No, no, no, i am absolutely not the "wronged person" here.
I am just saying that people should be aware that when they are playing with other people's personal info---they are playing with fire---because this is not at all a settled area of the law, criminally or in a civil sense
BTW are you Michael Johnson who is an attorney involved in family violence out there in CA--it's a pretty common name you know---not looking to get you in trouble with your paralegals for your comments, just wondering if that's you
-
This is Karen. Someone told me what is going on over here. I have posted a few times on your board, but none of the recent posts are mine. Frankly, I can't be bothered.
You have posted my correct email address, but the phone number is not mine, so you should remove it before someone calls this poor person.
I am really dismayed at the meanness going on over on this site. Why would you come to the conclusion that everyone posting as Anonymous is me? Why would you go to so much effort to copy my old posts and give out personal information about me.
Yes, I am a lawyer. I know that what I put on the internet is fair game. I am not particularly concerned about my privacy in this context because this isn't exactly a premier site. I am more concerned with the level of anger and childish conduct here.
Again-please remove that person's phone number from your site.
KareninDallasp
Well we already knew it was you Karen.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 330#120437 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=330#120437)
Your last post is a pack of lies, and you couldn't BE any more NON accountable, oh the irony. But whatever, I'm bored with this now. Maybe you struggling trolls will stay over at your site now?
-
Well I am glad I quoted you before you deleted your post.
WOW. :rofl:
-
I received an email telling me what is going on here on the Fornits site. I have posted a few times in the past, but none of the recent posts are mine. I am really dismayed at the meanness and childish conduct happening. Why would you assume that all the people posting anonymously are me? You can't be serious! I, frankly, can not be bothered.
You have posted a lot of information about me. The phone number is NOT mine and I suggest you remove it immediately before some poor person gets a bunch of calls.
I can't imagine why you would be so hateful as to post my personal information and old posts out of context. Yes, I am a lawyer and I know that what I put out on the internet is fair game. Does that make you right in using the information in this manner?
I am not particularly concerned about my privacy in this context, since this site is not exactly a premier stop on the information highway.
However, I do suggest you delete that phone number or someone else might take some action.
Karen
-
Okay I see why you deleted your post and changed it to anonymous, staying logged in by mistake eh?
BIG MISTAKE- you have just been caught.
On 2005-08-02 19:53:00, hogheaven wrote:
This is Karen. Someone told me what is going on over here. I have posted a few times on your board, but none of the recent posts are mine. Frankly, I can't be bothered.
You have posted my correct email address, but the phone number is not mine, so you should remove it before someone calls this poor person.
I am really dismayed at the meanness going on over on this site. Why would you come to the conclusion that everyone posting as Anonymous is me? Why would you go to so much effort to copy my old posts and give out personal information about me.
Yes, I am a lawyer. I know that what I put on the internet is fair game. I am not particularly concerned about my privacy in this context because this isn't exactly a premier site. I am more concerned with the level of anger and childish conduct here.
Again-please remove that person's phone number from your site.
KareninDallasp
The question is WHY did you delete your post. Well, folks, this is why. Hogheaven already had another post, as I'm sure Karen noticed.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 320#120416 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=320#120416)
On 2005-08-02 16:35:00, hogheaven wrote:
...if that is KareninDallas, that isn't her email address. From what I know of her posts on the other board, I doubt that she would post anonymously here.
I was a supporter of this site, even though I never registered. Now I am registering but don't plan to stick around. The level of immaturity is mind-boggling. What have you proven by your attack here? If people come to this board to check out the Brat Camp issues, is THIS the kind of stuff you want them to see?
Referring to yourself in the third person Karen? You say someoned just emailed you what was going on, but you just proved you were in the other thread arguing, PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE ELSE, a while ago. You just go busted.
The end. :lol:
-
Nope, Hogheaven is not me- it is the person who's house I am visiting (another strugglingteen parent). You are right, I posted while he was logged in.
I've had enough of this-
Karen and Hogheaven are now gone from this site.
-
You know this is so irresponsible.
I've got half a mind to call this poor woman who got her number posted here---and enlighten her on what's going on in case she's gotten any nasty phone calls because of this incorrect posting
What kind of jerk would just pick a number on the off chance it was right and post it here: "karen austin" is not exactly a rare name---I sure hope that if this woman was bothered because of this, she finds a way to make the jerk who posted her number pay---in dolloars
-
On 2005-08-02 19:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay I see why you deleted your post and changed it to anonymous, staying logged in by mistake eh?
BIG MISTAKE- you have just been caught.
On 2005-08-02 19:53:00, hogheaven wrote:
This is Karen. Someone told me what is going on over here. I have posted a few times on your board, but none of the recent posts are mine. Frankly, I can't be bothered.
You have posted my correct email address, but the phone number is not mine, so you should remove it before someone calls this poor person.
I am really dismayed at the meanness going on over on this site. Why would you come to the conclusion that everyone posting as Anonymous is me? Why would you go to so much effort to copy my old posts and give out personal information about me.
Yes, I am a lawyer. I know that what I put on the internet is fair game. I am not particularly concerned about my privacy in this context because this isn't exactly a premier site. I am more concerned with the level of anger and childish conduct here.
Again-please remove that person's phone number from your site.
KareninDallasp
The question is WHY did you delete your post. Well, folks, this is why. Hogheaven already had another post, as I'm sure Karen noticed.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 320#120416 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10963&forum=37&start=320#120416)
On 2005-08-02 16:35:00, hogheaven wrote:
...if that is KareninDallas, that isn't her email address. From what I know of her posts on the other board, I doubt that she would post anonymously here.
I was a supporter of this site, even though I never registered. Now I am registering but don't plan to stick around. The level of immaturity is mind-boggling. What have you proven by your attack here? If people come to this board to check out the Brat Camp issues, is THIS the kind of stuff you want them to see?
Referring to yourself in the third person Karen? You say someoned just emailed you what was going on, but you just proved you were in the other thread arguing, PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE ELSE, a while ago. You just go busted.
The end. :lol: "
BUSTED! lol
-
On 2005-08-02 20:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nope, Hogheaven is not me- it is the person who's house I am visiting (another strugglingteen parent). You are right, I posted while he was logged in.
I've had enough of this-
Karen and Hogheaven are now gone from this site."
:lol: Yeah.... I'm sure everyone believes that.
BUSTED!
-
On 2005-08-02 19:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My friend emailed me this link and asked me to chime in. I am an attorney in Calfornia. Rest assured fornits posters, nothing which has occured in this thread has broken any laws. Paralegal is legal slang for secretary more or less. We have to be politically correct these days. :wink: "
Damn this shit is great!
-
Welcome Karen, to your well diserved bash. You diserve it of course bcause of the treatment you gave me at ST, then again mose needs one too. You know the second best thing about this? I dident even start it. :rofl: Some anon picked your name and started beating you up, what goes around comes around.
-
Overlordd, I have mostly ignored your flighty behavior since you started posting. I have simply clenched my teeth when you spoke of your stupid religion and retarded political affiliation. I guess it's because I appreciate your fire for getting the truth out there and for getting these places shut down. But bravoing someone for singling someone out from a different forum and antagonizing them here is a total douche move. The anonymous who started this thread is a dick too. It's people like you that bring down the credibility of this site. For some of us who can't afford our own website, this is the only place we have to get our stories out there. I know you don't really understand that, Overlordd, since you don't have any experience to share. But do the rest of us a favor and shut the hell up unless you have something important to say.
-
OR... just let the thread die.. like they all end anyways.
-
Hmm, the word flightly behavior is not very discriptive so I doing know exactly what you mean. Attacking my policital leanings and religion for no reason is more childish than I have ever become. And indeed, I was commenting to karen who was very mean to me and showing her, because she is most likely been on the board, that what goes around comes around. And I have not brought down the crediblity of this site. I have not posted topics on how to give the perfect blow job, main line smack or smoke pot. I dont come on the site saying I smoked pot, and I debate and discuss in a decent manor. If you dont like my politics or reiligion thats your buisness, but when I attack some one who has attacked me many many times, and I only attack once, you can butt out liger.
But yes, the thread is getting alittle crazy, so maybe we should let it die.
[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-03 08:01 ]
-
I agree with Liger and TSW. Youre a dolt and you need to work on your delivery.
-
Ignore that shit OL, just keep posting. I don't agree with your politics either, but I'm not going to sit here and start name-calling. I have no more right to be here than OL does, this is a forum for everyone's use. Not just a select few-- at least that is my understanding?
-
At least work on your spelling.
-
I just spoke with karen, and after speaking with her I found the phone number is indeed not hers, though she has posted some times she thinks there are 3 to 4 parents from ST over here giving us a hard time. We cant get rid of the phone number or the IM and email because I think they were posted in anon. I think the thread as reached a point where the venting over trolling has turned into a firm bashing of unrelated people. Maybe we should jsut let it die.
Yes, and my spelling bites, I will admit that.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-03 08:01 ]
-
Jesus christ people, it's a phone number. We all KNOW nobody has called it. Talk about making a big deal about nothing. And yes, Karen already proved it was her over here starting trouble, she got what she asked for. nothing more, nothing less. if the next troll makes their identity known over time, i expect the same to happen to them.
-
If I were her and did get some offensive calls---I'd be talking to lawyers and seeing how any new legislation regulating this kind of shit might be translated into suing the pants off the idiots who did the posting (or this site for allowing the number to remain)
-
On 2005-08-03 09:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If I were her and did get some offensive calls---I'd be talking to lawyers and seeing how any new legislation regulating this kind of shit might be translated into suing the pants off the idiots who did the posting (or this site for allowing the number to remain)"
:lol: :lol:
-
On 2005-08-03 09:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If I were her and did get some offensive calls---I'd be talking to lawyers and seeing how any new legislation regulating this kind of shit might be translated into suing the pants off the idiots who did the posting (or this site for allowing the number to remain)"
We know you ARE the victim here, Karen. :rofl:
-
On 2005-08-03 09:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If I were her and did get some offensive calls---I'd be talking to lawyers and seeing how any new legislation regulating this kind of shit might be translated into suing the pants off the idiots who did the posting (or this site for allowing the number to remain)"
What do you mean "if I were her"? Do you have multiple personalities, too?
And it seems your much-maligned four-letter vocabulary is expanding nicely. At least you learned SOMETHING over here...
Now back under the bridge, troll!
-
I'm not this Karen person, don't even know her. I'm just saying that it's wrong to bother strangers by posting their numbers at a place like this. And I think if someone does this (or allows the number to remain) they ought to have to pay for inconveniencing the people they do this to. I can't imagine why you would take issue with this
-
And how many more times do you need to make that point. I think we all got it the first time you expressed your opinion. What is this... four times now. We GOT IT. You'd like the poster of the phone number to have his/her pants sued off. Ain't happening. Give it a rest. Or go persue the creation of that legislation.
-
Well, wasn't this info posted publicly?
Its not as if someone has ferreted out this private information and made it public. It was publicly posted, by the very owner of the info in question.
All this Fornits poster did was copy and paste it over - which is done all the time, with all kinds of information found on the World Wide Web.
-
The phone number wasn't posted publicly. Someone just made an educated guess. It was wrong, mind you, but educated none the less...
-
Thanks Deborah>
Now that you mention it, there are all sorts of things that go on at this site that will make good examples of why existing cyberstalking laws need to be expanded.
One group that has successfully lobbied for this already is WHOA which stands for Working to Halt Online Abuse, they have a website (http://www.haltabuse.org (http://www.haltabuse.org), I think) dedicated to helping victims fo cybercrimes. It's founder, Jayne Hitchcock, started the group after she found that her name and telephone number had been distributed online without her permission. She's been heavily involved in hearings and legislation on this topic
Other sites offering advice to online stalking victims are:
Cyberangels (http://www.cyberangels.org/information/about_ca.html; (http://www.cyberangels.org/information/about_ca.html;)
SafetyEd International (www.safetyed.org (http://www.safetyed.org))
CyberSnitch (http://www.cybersnitch.net/ (http://www.cybersnitch.net/))
There are currently federal and state laws that have been used successfully to try and convict cyberstalkers and harassers (there's a comprehensive list of federal statutes related to internet crime on the Dept. of Justice website)---but more are needed and I just bet that there are people here who can explain this in ways that will bring about change.
I suggest that anyone who has been stalked or harrassed here contact one of these sites and see what can be done---and also use your story to show Congress what needs to be done.
-
If you google CyberGuard and /or cyberstalking you get a lot of information on how cybercrime is defined, what the current laws (state and federal) are and ways to join the lobby for more laws and accountability.
Have a look!
-
If it were my decision, the number would've been removed immediately, but it's not.
Were you lumping all poster together with this comment?
"all sorts of things that go on at this site that will make good examples of why existing cyberstalking laws need to be expanded".
Things escalate, people do (to borrow the phrase from TSW) bone headed things. They're made right if there was indeed a violation of personal information or a law.
Do you have a personal complaint? Did someone here stalk you? What 'all sorts of things' are you refering to specifically?
Please don't ignore the question. You made an accusation. Back it up.
-
"While crimial prosceution may be the best alternative for protection from cyberstalking, it may be possible to bring a successful claim under civil tort law. Specifically, assault, intentional inflcition of emotional distress, and invasion of privacy may provide recourse to the victim. While these alternatives will not result in the criminal punishment for the perpetrator, the economic penalties that are available may serve as a deterrent to prevent the stalker from continuing in his stalking"
That quote is from a really good online article "Cyberstalking--Is it Covered by Current Anti-Stalking Laws" by Craig Lee and Patrick Lynch. They give a lot of good information and you can find the article by googling their names and the title
-
The post this is about is not stalking. This troll sure is persistent though!! :roll: Nobody believes anything you say-- we all know nothing illegal, not even close to illegal, has taken place. Karens little feewings hurt?
-
More complaining from people who put too much info out on themselves. Boo-hoo.
Why don't you show us a law instead of articles, you know actual legal text? Oh, that's right, there is none!
For a lawyer you certainly can't argue. Take on fornits... and FORNITS wins. That must really piss you off Karen, huh? All that bashing and namecalling and you can't even keep yourself anonymous. :lol:
-
Karen has not posted on this site at all today. Seems like you are all now arguing among yourselves.
-
Just check out some of the resources I've listed and draw your own conclusions and if you've been harrassed or stalked here---do something about it-(don't take anyone's word at this site--LOL--that you can't ----I mean what would you expect them to say here)
-
On 2005-08-03 11:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thanks Deborah>
Now that you mention it, there are all sorts of things that go on at this site that will make good examples of why existing cyberstalking laws need to be expanded.
One group that has successfully lobbied for this already is WHOA which stands for Working to Halt Online Abuse, they have a website (http://www.haltabuse.org (http://www.haltabuse.org), I think) dedicated to helping victims fo cybercrimes. It's founder, Jayne Hitchcock, started the group after she found that her name and telephone number had been distributed online without her permission. She's been heavily involved in hearings and legislation on this topic
Other sites offering advice to online stalking victims are:
Cyberangels (http://www.cyberangels.org/information/about_ca.html; (http://www.cyberangels.org/information/about_ca.html;)
SafetyEd International (www.safetyed.org (http://www.safetyed.org))
CyberSnitch (http://www.cybersnitch.net/ (http://www.cybersnitch.net/))
There are currently federal and state laws that have been used successfully to try and convict cyberstalkers and harassers (there's a comprehensive list of federal statutes related to internet crime on the Dept. of Justice website)---but more are needed and I just bet that there are people here who can explain this in ways that will bring about change.
I suggest that anyone who has been stalked or harrassed here contact one of these sites and see what can be done---and also use your story to show Congress what needs to be done."
LMAO! Thanks for the laugh. Maybe you can call your Cyberangel to come save you?
-
On 2005-08-03 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Karen has not posted on this site at all today. Seems like you are all now arguing among yourselves."
How would you know this for certain?
Unless, you are Karen! Oh, big surpsise. Karen can suck my fat cock.
-
OHHH, YOU must be the friend who's house she was at yesterday. Right? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sureeeeee..... we believe you........
Karen.
-
On 2005-08-02 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 3697
Registered: June 03, 2003
Posts: 385
Email Address: [email protected]
Location: Dallas, TX
Occupation: Attorney
Interests: Pets, Running
Birth Date: September 12, 1952
What is your purpose in registering on this Board? (Specifics Please): Son went to wilderness and TBS
AIM ID: NikeKSA1
--------
Some sample posts to get to know our new little friend...
'Lori, I'm so sorry. Yes, maybe the message he needs is that you have stopped caring. He isn't 18 yet, though. Not sure of your state's law, but you are probably still legally responsible for him.'
'I'm sorry about your job- I've been "idle" for a few months, too. This lawyer-stuff isn't so secure anymore.
Karen'
Trouble at work Karen.. oh , what a shame!
'Your daughter's anger is very normal. Think about it- she has gotten away with her behaviors for a long time and now you have taken extreme action. She will use every tool she has to hurt and scare you. Stay strong.
Karen'
'Hiring escorts was one of the most "humane" things we ever did for our son. We had lost control. We could not possibly have gotten him to a program without him running from us and perhaps being lost to us forever. The compassionate, professional escorts we hired had an extremely difficult time transporting our son, but they never once gave up or abused him in any way, even when he nearly killed them and himself by grabbing the steering wheel of the car from the backseat. My son never questioned our use of escorts, even in his anger at being in wilderness and later at TBS. Today we are the proud parents of a student-athlete who is achieving his full potential.'
'We didn't talk to our son for 7 or 8 weeks. We received and wrote weekly letters which were faxed in both directions. I think it is better for the kids- and the parents- NOT to speak. Obviously the dialogue at home was not productive, and that dynamic can interfere with the therapeutic process. The therapist at wilderness knew when the time was right for a short phone call.
We are ALL parents here, but sometimes removing yourself from the enmeshment is the best thing for all involved.'
'Well- both of mine were screwed up. Daughter acted "in" and handled her depression by cutting. We were able to treat her locally and a change in school environment helped a lot. She remained successful academically through the whole thing. Son acted "out" and required programs. Lots of their issues arose from our parenting, but not all. It is a tough time to be a teenager, and a tough time to be a parent.'
'You guys forgot "spend too much"!
Even my wonderful, talented, brilliant 20 year old daughter who just finished a ministry discernment internship can be surly, self-centered and generally unpleasant. On occasion, I refer to her as "Reverend B----".'
responding to criticism of BRAT CAMP'
'Maybe there is something wrong with me, but I am just not that horrified by it. I DO worry about the effect on the kids, but to me it is better for the mass public to view than Survivor or Anna Nicole Smith et al. If some viewing parents see these teens and hear their behavior described and realize that their own teens are in desperate need of help, then the show will have done some good. I meet many families who try to "stick it out" and think some of these really risky behaviors are "normal teen stuff". Maybe this show will wake some people up.'
'Lori- good for you for getting him back to the RTC. I know it is hard, but what a relief for you to know that he is safe and working on his problem. My son told me that many, many of the kids from his TBS have fallen back into their old patterns. It is, unfortunately, very common, despite our best efforts as parents. Keep us posted on his progress.'
'Overlordd, your credibility on this site is non-existent. Please go back to Dev-ville, or whereever you came from.'
----------------
How sad to be this woman's children. "
:wave:
-
How does it feel to be outed by a teenager? To spend your entire day enraged at an anonymous internet identiy on the other side of the world, who hasn't even reached adult age yet? LMAO This is great free entertainment. And therapy. I hate program parents and everything they stand for. If I can broil one up all the better, I hope you are having as much fun as I am. :wink:
-
LAlalaLAlala
Just waiting for you to post again karen.
Come on, I want you to tell me how much trouble I am going to be in. :lol:
-
Tell me again why you keep putting the same info up?
-
If I call you a CUNT, a WHORE, or a CUNT EATING WHORE BITCH.. can u sue ME yet? lol
-
On 2005-08-03 12:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Tell me again why you keep putting the same info up? "
To keep the troll baited, why else?
-
What in the world did this person do to you?
-
She touched my junk, literally.
-
or is it liberally... I cant remember. :lol:
-
On 2005-08-03 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What in the world did this person do to you? "
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=7#116799 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10851&forum=7#116799)
-
***Specifically, assault, intentional inflcition of emotional distress, and invasion of privacy may provide recourse to the victim.
Damn, the kids in programs should be afforded such protection !!
-
no one is necessarily in trouble for posting info about Karen---if she did put this info into the public domain.
The tort would come if you, say, posted her address or phone number somewhere, misrepresented her as a prostitute and she was bothered by people looking for her in this capacity (that actually happened in California---Gary Dellapenta did something like this to a neighbor and was tried and convicted under California Civil Code 1708.7---just search "Dellapenta---there was plenty of press on it)
The tort in the present case would come if you falsely listed the other woman's (Karen Austin) phone number here as the Karen you thought she was and she suffered emotional distress by getting a bunch of harassing phone calls, AS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTION. Then, no question, I think you're in for money damages, dont know about criminal penalties. As I understand it, Texas has a Cyberstalking task force that works with the FBI to locate "anonymous" posters.
-
That is the listing for a Karen Austin, correct?
Is that not Karen Austin's phone number?
Lets take a look at the post in question, shall we?
Im guessing by your hotmail email address, your real name is something close to KAREN AUSTIN?
Only one yield when I searched YAHOO people for this. I wonder if this is actually KARENS phone numbers??
(***) ***-1517
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =37#120395 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11072&forum=37#120395)
Please, tell us all, what is illegal abou that post- and what exactly you intend to do about it. Other than cry here on the message board.
Search Karen Austin Dallas Texas in Google and the info pops up, including address and a map. Tell me, please oh tell me- and don't give me some generic statement so far from the facts it's irrelevant- how this is illegal. I am sincerely curious.
Maybe next time you shouldn't put your last name in your email?
I really find it funny you persist in saying something illegal has occured. Is this your attempt at disinformation? Or do you really believe your own bullshit, and think they will pass a new law just for you? Maybe they will call it Karen's Law? :lol:
-
On 2005-08-03 12:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"he tort in the present case would come if you falsely listed the other woman's (Karen Austin) phone number here as the Karen you thought she was and she suffered emotional distress by getting a bunch of harassing phone calls, AS A RESULT OF YOUR ACTION. "
Wrong. Karen Austin listed her phone number, leaving that information open to whomever typed her name in a search. That number is the number Karen Austin listed for herself. If it's the wrong Karen, that sucks for her- but there's nothing illegal about it. Sorry. :wave:
-
And more to the point, how was that post malicious in any way? It sounds like a question, using information readily available on the internet.
Doh-!
-
Assuming in fact that this is not the number for the "Karen" from ST, whoever posted it in that context has 1) posted someone else's information
and 2)indicated that this "someone else" is "Karen" from ST---just by the context in which it was posted. The result could be that an innocent person who had nothing to do with this whole board would receive harrassing, distressing calls.
It doesn't make any difference if the names are the same, the ANON poster who did the posting (and even allowed it to remain after being told it was incorrect)has acted to cause another innocent person distress by falsely putting her number into the hands of those who may harrass her or god forbid harm her
Just read the California Dellapenta decision---it will make more sense to you then maybe
-
If you are getting that from an online telephone directory, first or all the person does not choose to list on those. as someone else said it isn't exactly an unusual name. I did n't find a name and address by just doing google
-
Doesnt sound like this poster is indicating its Karen does it?
Im guessing by your hotmail email address, your real name is something close to KAREN AUSTIN?
Only one yield when I searched YAHOO people for this. I wonder if this is actually KARENS phone numbers??
(***) ***-1517
Sure are lots of ??? question marks there.
Sorry your arguments keep falling apart though.
:wave:
-
On 2005-08-03 12:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you are getting that from an online telephone directory, first or all the person does not choose to list on those. as someone else said it isn't exactly an unusual name. I did n't find a name and address by just doing google"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ka ... gle+Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=karen+austin+dallas+texas&btnG=Google+Search)
-
Gary Dellapenta, 50, a Los Angeles security guard, pleaded guilty last April to charges that he attempted to use the Internet to solicit the rape of a female acquaintance.
Dellapenta admitted that he posed as his victim -- a woman who had spurned him -- in sex-themed Internet chat rooms by placing personal ads in the woman's name. A slew of men answered the lurid ads, and Dellapenta sent them e-mail messages in reply, claiming that the woman fantasized about being raped.
In the e-mails, he included the woman's name, physical description, address and telephone number. He concluded the messages with tips on how to bypass the woman's home security system.
Six men came to the 28-year-old woman's home saying they wanted to rape her. Dellapenta was ultimately sentenced to six years in a California state prison. The conviction was a victory for law enforcement, but one that required an enormous amount of manpower.
Collaborating in Dellapenta's arrest were the FBI, the Los Angeles District Attorney and Sheriff offices and even the victim's father, who learned of Dellapenta's identity by responding to the chat room messages himself.
Many cyberstalkers remain at large, however, because most municipalities don't have the necessary expertise and manpower.
You are comaring that, to this?
Please, tell me you are kidding.
-
You people need to stop this.
-
PS: Anons cannot edit posts.
-
In that last re-post of Karen Austins' info you knew enough to have xxx'ed out part of the phone number---that shows you are learning that you can't go around transmitting other people's info falsely.
Listen, it doesn't make any difference if there are lots of question marks or the way the original anon poster tried to be clever in how it was phrased: this, in the law, is just trying to "veil" his intent.
Any reasonable person on a jury who saw that post would conclude that the anon's intent (which is what matters here) was to make angry people call that number: hence he would be screwed because he was taking action to bring harassment to an innocent person.
-
the funny thing is that you are harassing the wrong person- she only made a couple of those posts. I know that becauseI did most of them. i offered to speak up and share the crap, but she said it wasnt worth it. its really pretty funny, but I thinkits time your site personcloses this thread
-
I am starring ** out of courtesy since members here seem to dislike it, again, out of courtesy FOR THEM. Not for you. nothing illegal if I didnt. we all know that lady, you aint scaring nobody. im not the original poster, do you think you are only taliing to one person here? Jury... my god you are insane. Call 911 and see what they do. Really.
-
On 2005-08-03 12:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In that last re-post of Karen Austins' info you knew enough to have xxx'ed out part of the phone number---that shows you are learning that you can't go around transmitting other people's info falsely.
Listen, it doesn't make any difference if there are lots of question marks or the way the original anon poster tried to be clever in how it was phrased: this, in the law, is just trying to "veil" his intent.
Any reasonable person on a jury who saw that post would conclude that the anon's intent (which is what matters here) was to make angry people call that number: hence he would be screwed because he was taking action to bring harassment to an innocent person.
"
JESUS- Karen, you mine as well level with us!
We can recognize that writing style by now.
This is MY last post in this thread, have a nice life.
-
Just trying to look on the positive side---I about give up on you---but PLEASE---it doesn't matter whether or not you are the original poster!!!!
I guess people like you are the reason why it will take more prosecutions. And more lawsuits and additional cyber-legislation (which is coming down the pipe as we speak by the way) to teach various irresponsible oafs that they can't mess around with innocent people's lives by playing with their personal information.
And then---when there are a whole bunch of new laws and forums legally shut down and prosecutions, people like you will be bitching and moaning about it's so sad---well fella, behavior like yours--dismissing the rights of innocent people who have absolutely no dog in your little fight here---are the reasons that cyber communication is going to be a lot more regulated over the next few years.
That number should have been taken right off this board and the person who posted it should have stepped up and apologized. An excellent example of both cyber abuse and poster arrogance to send on to the regulators
-
//I suggest that anyone who has been stalked or harrassed here contact one of these sites and see what can be done---//
Well there is hardly anyone who posts here much who hasn't been "stalked" and "Harassed" here on Fornits.
I don't think this equates to cyber stalking.
Cyber Stalking would be more like a barage of unwelcome email and PMs and IMs, and following from board to board maybe - If *I* understand it correctly.
If its just someone getting their jollies tormenting another on Fornits - then I don't think you'll find that this is against any law.
You *might* be able to find an attorney to file a civil action - but I don't think it would be worth your time and trouble - never mind the cost.
I do think some of this should be deleted. I would moderate a little more if it was my board - and a lot less if Lon's were under my control. But alas - I (nor you) have any say for either board.
Best not to take part if it upsets you to much.
-
Well I'd recommend that people decide what lawsuit is worth filing--and what isn't--by talking to an attorney not a web moderator---maybe that's just me.
And if the poor woman we are talking about was harassed---I hope she does get a lawyer and sues this site for leaving her telephone no. on it since last night when it became clear what had happened I haven't called her to tell her what's going on, maybe I should
-
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
-
On 2005-08-03 13:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just trying to look on the positive side---I about give up on you---but PLEASE---it doesn't matter whether or not you are the original poster!!!!
I guess people like you are the reason why it will take more prosecutions. And more lawsuits and additional cyber-legislation (which is coming down the pipe as we speak by the way) to teach various irresponsible oafs that they can't mess around with innocent people's lives by playing with their personal information.
And then---when there are a whole bunch of new laws and forums legally shut down and prosecutions, people like you will be bitching and moaning about it's so sad---well fella, behavior like yours--dismissing the rights of innocent people who have absolutely no dog in your little fight here---are the reasons that cyber communication is going to be a lot more regulated over the next few years.
That number should have been taken right off this board and the person who posted it should have stepped up and apologized. An excellent example of both cyber abuse and poster arrogance to send on to the regulators"
The irony. This coming from a program supporter. See-- we are dealing with child abusing, child raping thugs who make hundreds of millions of dollars off imprisoning children. Karen argues to lock kids up, unregulated. Then argues to regulate the internet. You are a hypocrite.
We can't even get lawsuits filed against people who physically abused us, tortured us, and raped our souls and stole our childhood. You expect anyone to give a shit your phone number got RE-posted somewhere, without a clear malicious intent?
You really don't know who you are messing with, do you? I don't know about the other posters here, but I'd love to take you on. You see, I no longer have anything else to lose. Do you?
-
On 2005-08-02 15:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"100 views aint bad... lets see if we can get it up to a thousand though.
::smokingun:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: "
Who would of thought your wish would come true so fast.
-
I just don't think that you people should so cavalierly assume that you get to damage other people's lives by playing with their information.
I just don't see how you can justify it whatever school or camp you were in. That is a completely separate issue than my opinion or ours on various programs that are discussed here.
But I'd be careful about threatening people like Karen--even in veiled ways-- just because you don't like her views on these kinds of issues because that raised federal enforcement and surveillance to a whole other level.
-
Ginger can, if she deems it appropriate.
-
On 2005-08-03 13:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just don't think that you people should so cavalierly assume that you get to damage other people's lives by playing with their information.
I just don't see how you can justify it whatever school or camp you were in. That is a completely separate issue than my opinion or ours on various programs that are discussed here.
But I'd be careful about threatening people like Karen--even in veiled ways-- just because you don't like her views on these kinds of issues because that raised federal enforcement and surveillance to a whole other level.
"
Come on, say it again for us.
Who made a threat against you?
Sounds like its YOU making unfounded threats against Fornits and its posters, ever think of that? :lol:
-
On 2005-08-03 13:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just don't think that you people should so cavalierly assume that you get to damage other people's lives by playing with their information.
I just don't see how you can justify it whatever school or camp you were in. That is a completely separate issue than my opinion or ours on various programs that are discussed here.
But I'd be careful about threatening people like Karen--even in veiled ways-- just because you don't like her views on these kinds of issues because that raised federal enforcement and surveillance to a whole other level.
"
Of course you don't want to discuss programs.
You want to sit on your computer and make threats at teenagers all day.
I pity you.
-
To Buzzkill--if you want a legal definition for "cyberstalking"---google "Department of Justice" and "cyberstalking" and scroll down a few pages
Since they're enforcing the laws, I guess their definition is as good as any in practical terms
-
What threats has Karen ever made against Fornits' or anyone here---please elaborate
-
What threats has anyone made against Karen from here?
-
Original poster again here. I do regret posting the phone number now, not because I think it is illegal however, only because this has caused a distraction from the real debate. I would edit it out, but I can't edit posts as anonymous. Antigen, maybe a little help. If an apology will end all this, them I am sorry. Can't we just give it a rest now? I'm sorry for any trouble I've caused.
-
"You really don't know who you are messing with, do you? I don't know about the other posters here, but I'd love to take you on. You see, I no longer have anything else to lose. Do you?"
Several posts back someone directed this statement to Karen....
Gee, I wonder if someone said that to me, would I take it as threatening?? Would most people? Would it be a "threat" under the law due to its implications---which go to intent just like words do? I ask the questions---leave it to you to mull over the answers.
-
On 2005-08-03 12:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In that last re-post of Karen Austins' info you knew enough to have xxx'ed out part of the phone number---that shows you are learning that you can't go around transmitting other people's info falsely.
Listen, it doesn't make any difference if there are lots of question marks or the way the original anon poster tried to be clever in how it was phrased: this, in the law, is just trying to "veil" his intent.
Any reasonable person on a jury who saw that post would conclude that the anon's intent (which is what matters here) was to make angry people call that number: hence he would be screwed because he was taking action to bring harassment to an innocent person.
"
You people are tripping. I can tell you, from first-hand knowledge, that a case like this will never be brought by a prosecutor.
I've been stalked and harassed DIRECTLY. I've had emails sent to me containing death threats. I've had my personal information put out on the web, even on sites maintained by the perpetrator.
The newest and latest laws simply don't cover this kind of behavior, and likely won't in the future. Also, the burden of proof is so high that you just won't make a case.
I'm an information technologist and when I thought I REALLY HAD THE GOODS, including IP addresses and MAC adresses, along with ISP trace logs, it took the DA about 30 seconds to tell me to forget about about it. I've been pursuing the case for OVER TWO YEARS and haven't yet gotten any resolution.
New laws regarding the tort side of things have been RELAXED, not strengthened. One's first amendment right allows them to post their thoughts about anyone, good, bad or ugly. As long as it's just their opinion, you have no recourse. Just have a look at what's posted all over the net about George Bush, the most powerful man on earth. There's not been even a single case brought, much less won.
Aside form those facts, I believe this website is hosted in Canada. Good luck getting an international subpeona honored for what, at the VERY BEST, would be a class E misdemeanor, and damn near impossible to prove to boot.
In addition, if the offensive poster doesn't live in your state, then you have no recourse whatsoever at the state level.
You say that if "angry" callers contacted the person whose number was posted that the poster would be on the hook for "harassment." That's not true. It could only be considered "aggravated harassment" if and ONLY IF the person who was called had reasonable fear for his or her PHYSICAL SAFETY. No jury will ever hear this case anyway, so even that's moot.
Ask yourself this: What federal prosecutor is going to try an interstate/international case of what amounts to a pissing contest?
Your name and phone number are listed in the directory and that's public domain. Any information you revealed about your particulars on the internet, intentionally or not, is also public domain.
Please, give it a rest. You're not going to sue anyone. The cops aren't going to arrest anyone. You're just a blowhard who feels like you can push people around with "legalese."
It makes you feel weak that you were so thoroughly obliterated by an "angry teen" that you've gone into la-la land looking simply to control the dialogue. Good luck with that...
-
What part of THIS IS NOT KAREN don't you get?
-
Ok, so you're not Karen. You're a Karen-like troll. Who cares?
The argument is the same. What do you have to say about the principle, dummy? Your ARGUMENT DOESN'T HOLD WATER whoever you are. :roll:
-
You seem to still think I'm Karen,---"obliterated by an angry teenager" as you put it. I am not Karen:though in point of fact I don't see why you think she's been obliterated by anyone---somebody pointed out that she posted here as well as at another site---oh well---it's hardly obliteration---in my books at least. Maybe I'm missing some nuance but that would be my view of it anyway
I happen, for reasons of my own employment, to be at the computer terminal a lot today, and because I watch this site sometimes, I thought I'd give my opinion on this very rude and intrusive thing that was done in posting the information of that poor woman whose name resembled the "Karen" that you folks are currently demonizing on this thread.
Dysfunction, you may be a nice enough person, but I don't think you know the law.
Of course, I'm not personally going to sue anyone as you state in your post---nothing's been done to me.
I am guessing that it upsets you if people here consider the possiblity that there are legal consequences to their actions here---perhaps that comes from your working in the information industry and seeing the law increasingly regulate you.
You say: look at what's posted about George Bush: good lord man, I know personally of a situation in which someone posted that they would like to (not that they would, but that they would like to) kill George Bush and the secret service were at that person's home in less than twelve hours.
That doesn't mean that everyone who says dangerous threatening things is going to get whacked. It's going to depend on the circumstances, where it happened, your own personal clout in terms of political/legal/law enforcement contacts. But you are making it way too simple in the way that you say the law is now. It's not that simple, it's a vast frontier of possible applications in many different federal/state juristicions.
As for foreign law, I don't know about Canada, but internet law--in terms of behavior, threats, etc--is even stricter in some countries than here---in the UK for example, existing laws are flexible enough to emcompass on-line stalking and email harrassment. In the UK, the Telecommunications Act of 1984, section 43, for example, makes it an offence to send by means of a "telecommunications systems" (which as defined includes computers) a message or other matter that is "grossly offensive or is of an indecent, obscene, or menacing character".
So I don't know about Canada---but your blanket statement about international law does suggest to me that you are getting outside of your area of expertise.
I repeat: if I were this poor woman and if I had been harrassed, I would go to a lawyer (not an IT type) and find out my rights and exercise them. Maybe bringing to the attention of certain members of the House in Washington who have an interest in a test case if necessary, just to be sure that I had that clout that always helps.
Sorry you were not able to get the courts to attend to your own stalking situation---don't know the details or where it happened of course, hope you can raise the heat on that DA (go to the right congressman, whatever) you may still be able to pull if off if you obtain good, I mean really expert, legal advice in this very new area of the law.
-
You're just spinning your wheels again. You are equating this behavior with a threat to kill the president? I think everyone knows it's a federal felony to threaten to assassinate the president. That's simply NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT and not at all germane to the matter at hand.
There are no increased efforts to censor free speech on the internet. You have it exactly backwards. I work in IT and am well abreast of the law in that area. You obviously are not.
Let me reiterate: there has been no crime committed here. EVEN IF THERE WERE, you'd be unlikely to find a prosecutor to take the case. Even then, if you did, you'd be hard pressed to prove that the poster's motive was to bring PHYSICAL HARM by proxy to the the alleged "victim."
I never made any blanket statement about any international law. Where did you read anything like that in my post? I simply said good luck in getting records subpoenaed from another country when, at best, it would be a very low-level misdemeanor IN THIS COUNTRY.
You couldn't even get your OWN ISP's logs subpeonaed with this as "evidence," much less get international cooperation.
What you fail to see in your terrible and baseless argument is that the laws of the UK or Canada don't apply here. Last I checked we don't enforce UK telecomminications law in the U.S. of A. now do we?
If you live in the UK and so does the "perpetrator," then bully for you. Have a go at it. If you live here and they live there, or even if their ISP is there-good luck. You'll need it.
You're living in a fantasy world where congressmen get involved in people's personal lives. Get a grip already.
Your next featured article: "The Karen Austin Schiavo Case" - Congress Makes Controversial Move to End Bulletin Board Pissing Contest between Angry Teen and Control-Freak Adult...
What are you smoking, lady? :smokin:
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-03 16:00 ][ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-04 04:48 ]
-
To others who want to take action against cyberbullies: there are indeed congressmen who involve themselves in pushing these kinds of cases due to a perception that the law must catch up with the technology in order to protect Americans. These reps can be located fairly easily by internet search on the pertinent subject
As well, remember that for tort relief (civil, not criminal court), it doesn't have to be either a crime or a physical threat:emotional distress is enough.
Wish you the best--in my experience at least, if you fight for your rights, you'll do alright. Got to go now, and good luck to you
-
What are you smoking, lady?
I'm wondering the same thing! Got any more to share?
:lol:
-
The emotocons always seems to ::heart:: help when words fail one, don't they?
-
Well said Dysfunction Junction :wink: (Notice the use of the emoticons) :lol:
This whole thread is ridiculous. No one is going to be jailed for posting a phone number. The jails are over crowded already and I seriously doubt a posting is enough to get some "pain and suffering" money from a civil suit.
The parents come over here from ST and say vulgar and cruel things as anons and once they get a dose of their own medicine all of a sudden we're all bitter and nuts over here.
Really, shouldn't these parents be doing something to repair their relationships w/ their kids instead of trolling? Shit (yes 4 letter word) I bet the majority of them are in their 40s doing this crap.
-
On 2005-08-03 15:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
You say: look at what's posted about George Bush: good lord man, I know personally of a situation in which someone posted that they would like to (not that they would, but that they would like to) kill George Bush and the secret service were at that person's home in less than twelve hours.
I once said fuck George Bush and nothing happened :???:
-
I say hide the fertilizer and the u-haul.
-
Vulgar and cruel? You must be confused. Loking back on this thread and others, I
think all of the vulgarity and cruel speech has been on the side of the bashers. But maybe it's time to let it all die.
Here's a story that, if it isn't true, ought to be:
Dolly Parton was asked if she was offended when people called her a dumb blonde. Not a problem she said. "I know I'm not dumb, and I know I'm not a blonde."
I know I didn't send my kid to an abusive program. Feel sorry for the parents and kids who were victimized.
-
Was joking CHILL!!
-
On 2005-08-04 06:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Was joking CHILL!!"
First where u talking to me if so I was locked up for 4 years in one of those programs.I know very well what it feels like. There is just no point crying over spilt milk. Or I prefer to veiw it as an egg shell. Words spoken- like egg shells broken can never be put back togather again.
-
To Dysfunction---Look--you still seem to be confused...
Posted: 2005-08-03 19:25:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say hide the fertilizer and the u-haul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic).
This following a post about George Bush
Hell maybe it really is time to bring this site to the attention of some of the Cyber Watchdog groups that got listed here yesterday
Or the Secret Service
-
Oh it may get more lively real soon
-
guys... just let it die.
-
I think we should bomb the fertilizer store and the U-Haul rental place so that nobody can use fertilizer and/or a U-haul truck to commit terrorism :silly:
If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
On 2005-08-04 06:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-08-04 06:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Was joking CHILL!!"
First where u talking to me if so I was locked up for 4 years in one of those programs.I know very well what it feels like. There is just no point crying over spilt milk. Or I prefer to veiw it as an egg shell. Words spoken- like egg shells broken can never be put back togather again."
What program locked you up for 4 years. I call bullshit. But then, what isn't bullshit in this thread?
-
Don't call bullshit on this one. I recently had dialogue with a Hidden Lake Academy "grad" that went for four years PLUS post-grad.
Bottom line is if the parental bots are dumb enough and rich enough, the sky's the limit...
-
What about this do you not get???
IT WAS A JOKE! WHAT IS A MATTER WITH YOU?
Like a hungry pack of wolfs. Are you that blood thirsty? Such a powerful desire to win? You win.
Now is it all better? Here you can have my hanky
dry it up and get over it.....
And Yes I was in a program for 4 years. I couldn't care less if you think it is Bullshit.
My heart go's out to any one that has been a victim of them. I just prefer not to have it for breakfast lunch and supper. A little coffee helps first anyway. And do not read into this that I think anyone here dose. I just personally don't. I waisted enough of my life trying to figure out why. Should I let it drain me?
I mean wasn't that what they where suppose to do?
They took my heart. Should I give them my soul?
Or would you prefer to have it? Will my head on a platter do? Take it...
-
overlord is my hero
-
Thanks... I guess...
-
Fuck you OL, and all the rest of you forniscating bastards! I am going to sue you all!! :flame: :flame:
-
On 2005-09-16 20:06:00, KarenInDallas wrote:
"Fuck you OL, and all the rest of you forniscating bastards! I am going to sue you all!! :flame: :flame: "
What's wrong with a little forniscation? I say if it feels good, do it.
-
:nworthy: :rofl: lol
-
Surely you jest. No child has ever gone to a therapeutic boarding school for that long of a period of time. I read on their website that the average length of time students go to that school is between 18 and 22 months. Besides, the last time you posted about having a conversation with a student who went post grad to Hidden Lake academy, it was 2 years plus post grad. The years get longer every time you make that statement about that conversation :silly:
-
On 2005-09-29 14:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Surely you jest. No child has ever gone to a therapeutic boarding school for that long of a period of time. I read on their website that the average length of time students go to that school is between 18 and 22 months. Besides, the last time you posted about having a conversation with a student who went post grad to Hidden Lake academy, it was 2 years plus post grad. The years get longer every time you make that statement about that conversation :silly: "
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =30#119917 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3368&forum=41&start=30#119917)
FOUR YEARS and POST GRAD, dumbass. Tell the kid from pg46 that was there from age 14 to 18+ that he's lying.
Who cares what you read on their website? It's so rife with prevarications it makes even you look truthful and you're full of shit.
-
wow that kid must have really been messed up.
-
correction: his PARENTS must have been really messed up!
-
On 2005-08-04 09:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Don't call bullshit on this one. I recently had dialogue with a Hidden Lake Academy "grad" that went for four years PLUS post-grad.
Bottom line is if the parental bots are dumb enough and rich enough, the sky's the limit...
"
By the way, this is my last and only post regarding the length of stay at HLA. I'm sorry that you either cannot read or cannot remember what you read.
In the future you may want to actually quote what you're referring to so you don't appear as stupid and thoughtless.
-
What were the reasons this child stayed at that school for 4 years plus post grad? And why didnt he leave at age 18? Did he choose to stay that long, did his parents want him there that long? or did the school recommend that he stay that long? This is not a normal length of stay for that school supposedly so the reasons would make a difference in how this situation is looked at.
-
On 2005-09-30 09:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What were the reasons this child stayed at that school for 4 years plus post grad? And why didnt he leave at age 18? Did he choose to stay that long, did his parents want him there that long? or did the school recommend that he stay that long? This is not a normal length of stay for that school supposedly so the reasons would make a difference in how this situation is looked at. "
I gave you the link. Go back and read the thread. If you don't find what you're looking for, post a message in the HLA threads and maybe you will get an answer.
In my experience with HLA, there is no "normal" stay. The kid will stay until the parent stops paying or until the kid turns 18 and leaves on his/her own. Oftentimes they are coerced into staying after 18 with (empty) threats of being mandated to stay until "graduation" (an arbitrary date).
I would caution you that what is written on HLA's website is very often contraindicated by their actual practices (I could give you many examples, but, again, read the HLA threads - I'm not here to do the work for you).
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-09-30 10:37 ]
-
I found where an anonymous poster said they were there 4 years plus post grad but I dont know how long post grad was or how old they were when they started..maybe they can come back on here and tell us about their 4 years there and why it took so long.
-
On 2005-09-30 16:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I found where an anonymous poster said they were there 4 years plus post grad but I dont know how long post grad was or how old they were when they started..maybe they can come back on here and tell us about their 4 years there and why it took so long."
I think the answer is fairly obvious. It took four years plus because the parents were willing to PAY for four years plus.
There is absolutely no reason that any child should be at a RTC for this length of time. It proves that they either couldn't do the job or that they scammed the parents out of a ton of cash. Either way, any facility that would keep a kid this long is utterly reprehensible.
-
On 2005-10-08 10:20:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2005-09-30 16:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I found where an anonymous poster said they were there 4 years plus post grad but I dont know how long post grad was or how old they were when they started..maybe they can come back on here and tell us about their 4 years there and why it took so long."
I think the answer is fairly obvious. It took four years plus because the parents were willing to PAY for four years plus.
There is absolutely no reason that any child should be at a RTC for this length of time. It proves that they either couldn't do the job or that they scammed the parents out of a ton of cash. Either way, any facility that would keep a kid this long is utterly reprehensible.
"
I agree. Shame on the parents for keeping their kid locked up in the first place, never mind 4 damn years.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
-
On 2005-08-02 15:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"100 views aint bad... lets see if we can get it up to a thousand though.
::smokingun:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: "
2627 and counting... :tup:
-
On 2005-09-17 04:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-09-16 20:06:00, KarenInDallas wrote:
"Fuck you OL, and all the rest of you forniscating bastards! I am going to sue you all!! :flame: :flame: "
What's wrong with a little forniscation? I say if it feels good, do it."
Too much. :lol:
-
Anonymous
Unregistered User Posted: 2005-08-02 12:25:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 3697
Registered: June 03, 2003
Posts: 385
Email Address: [email protected]
Location: Dallas, TX
Occupation: Attorney
Interests: Pets, Running
Birth Date: September 12, 1952
What is your purpose in registering on this Board? (Specifics Please): Son went to wilderness and TBS
AIM ID: NikeKSA1
--------
Some sample posts to get to know our new little friend...
'Lori, I'm so sorry. Yes, maybe the message he needs is that you have stopped caring. He isn't 18 yet, though. Not sure of your state's law, but you are probably still legally responsible for him.'
'I'm sorry about your job- I've been "idle" for a few months, too. This lawyer-stuff isn't so secure anymore.
Karen'
Trouble at work Karen.. oh , what a shame!
'Your daughter's anger is very normal. Think about it- she has gotten away with her behaviors for a long time and now you have taken extreme action. She will use every tool she has to hurt and scare you. Stay strong.
Karen'
'Hiring escorts was one of the most "humane" things we ever did for our son. We had lost control. We could not possibly have gotten him to a program without him running from us and perhaps being lost to us forever. The compassionate, professional escorts we hired had an extremely difficult time transporting our son, but they never once gave up or abused him in any way, even when he nearly killed them and himself by grabbing the steering wheel of the car from the backseat. My son never questioned our use of escorts, even in his anger at being in wilderness and later at TBS. Today we are the proud parents of a student-athlete who is achieving his full potential.'
'We didn't talk to our son for 7 or 8 weeks. We received and wrote weekly letters which were faxed in both directions. I think it is better for the kids- and the parents- NOT to speak. Obviously the dialogue at home was not productive, and that dynamic can interfere with the therapeutic process. The therapist at wilderness knew when the time was right for a short phone call.
We are ALL parents here, but sometimes removing yourself from the enmeshment is the best thing for all involved.'
'Well- both of mine were screwed up. Daughter acted "in" and handled her depression by cutting. We were able to treat her locally and a change in school environment helped a lot. She remained successful academically through the whole thing. Son acted "out" and required programs. Lots of their issues arose from our parenting, but not all. It is a tough time to be a teenager, and a tough time to be a parent.'
'You guys forgot "spend too much"!
Even my wonderful, talented, brilliant 20 year old daughter who just finished a ministry discernment internship can be surly, self-centered and generally unpleasant. On occasion, I refer to her as "Reverend B----".'
responding to criticism of BRAT CAMP'
'Maybe there is something wrong with me, but I am just not that horrified by it. I DO worry about the effect on the kids, but to me it is better for the mass public to view than Survivor or Anna Nicole Smith et al. If some viewing parents see these teens and hear their behavior described and realize that their own teens are in desperate need of help, then the show will have done some good. I meet many families who try to "stick it out" and think some of these really risky behaviors are "normal teen stuff". Maybe this show will wake some people up.'
'Lori- good for you for getting him back to the RTC. I know it is hard, but what a relief for you to know that he is safe and working on his problem. My son told me that many, many of the kids from his TBS have fallen back into their old patterns. It is, unfortunately, very common, despite our best efforts as parents. Keep us posted on his progress.'
'Overlordd, your credibility on this site is non-existent. Please go back to Dev-ville, or whereever you came from.'
----------------
How sad to be this woman's children.
-
How sad to be this woman's children.
...and how sad to be her.
-
What a fucking bitch she is and probably a "know it all" too!