Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - AtomicAnt

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 37
16
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: It escort therapy?
« on: October 18, 2008, 11:43:00 PM »
Sarcasm? Maybe? But the underlying point is to use scare tactics to keep a child in line. Some would think that fear is a legitimate motivator for behavior. Some would not. I believe the preferred method is develop the sense that one does the right thing because one believes in it, not because one is forced to. It's the more difficult way to teach/parent, but I believe it produces the best citizens.

Someone I know just told me that the private school his kids go to require the parents and students to do volunteer work. Anyone else see the problem in that sentence - in that concept?

17
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re:
« on: September 28, 2008, 11:58:22 PM »
Been awhile since I've been here, but I read the top note and couldn't resist throwing in my two cents.

Isn't Jason a good example of why "confrontation therapy" (which has been rejected my mainstream psychology for decades) is a failure? It sure failed him! They basically kicked out a student who was getting good grades. Then they shipped him to wilderness (a money making recommendation, I'm sure) and he came back even more hostile. No surprise there. Then they sabotage his college career and life by suggesting he was unstable.

Am I the only one that can see nothing was wrong with Jason? They were just making stuff up (bullshit) to confront him with. Seriously, I got half way through and thought it must be a parody or satire or something. It was impossible to take the article seriously at all. Then it struck me that the real tragedy is they were messing up a real person and that those doing it believed in what they were doing. It ruined my whole night.

If a kid is 'isolating' and doesn't want to socialize, isn't that his right as an American? As a loner, I get fed up with people thinking I must be depressed or shy because I prefer my own company to that of others. I am also not comfortable sharing my thoughts or emotions in a group setting. That is also normal and it is my right, and anyone's not to participate in any particular discussion no matter the circumstances. It doesn't make us psycho or uncooperative. One learns more by listening than by speaking, anyway.

Basically screaming in someone's face and calling them names is never therapy. It is verbal abuse.

18
What strikes me as obvious legal issues:

The defense of we were 'following procedures.' This defense was deemed unsupportable after WWII when it was used by SS Guards at concentration camps. Even following military orders was never valid as an excuse for war crimes; or any crime for that matter.

The defense of the pre-existing medical condition. Once again, I know of no precedence where this is valid. If someone mugs a man with a heart problem and he dies of a heart attack, it is still murder. The mugger cannot say, "I didn't know he was going to die." As a facility that cares for children, they are negligent for not having safeguards in place for this very kind of eventuality.

Although it is a shame that race is clouding the teen abuse issue, I honestly believe race was an issue. The jury was all white. In Florida "respect for law and order" is a euphemism for 'white supremacy' and a military attitude toward dissent.

Finally, Florida has one of the most corrupt and insane judicial systems in the USA. Florida is listed as human rights violator by both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. They have by far the most incarcerated children of any State (except California) and Florida has by far the most children serving time as adults in adult prisons. It is truly frightening how much the home of Straight Inc hates kids.

19
The Troubled Teen Industry / God's Law.
« on: September 01, 2007, 11:27:11 AM »
I vote the Catholic Parents as "most likely to have an out-of-control" teen in the first place. They create the monster and then send it away to be "saved." Self-righteous Idiots.

The Rabbi, meanwhile, would be more likely to have happy, well adjusted kids.

I despise religion in all its forms. It fosters ignorance and intolerance. It always comes with nonsensical rules. It automatically defines everyone outside the 'one true' religion as the enemy. It is a tool of oppression.

20
The Troubled Teen Industry / Morality in parenting
« on: April 08, 2007, 03:42:53 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
i think the majority of parents are still like that….

I tend to agree with this also.  I don’t see a big difference between the parents of today and my parents growing up.  I also feel that having an option like the “Teen Help Industry” makes it easier for some parents to off load the problems their children are having prematurely if they don’t feel like working at it.  But what I see more clearly is that kids now are exposed to more at a younger age.  Kids are smoking and drinking in grade school now and knowing someone who shoots up coke or heroin is no big deal so trying it themselves is a shorter step.  When we talked about Hendrix doing heroin we thought wow this guy is cool, but way out there.  Heroin, crack etc. was not part of an 8th graders life back then and most kids didn’t know anyone who shot up.  We were no strangers to drugs ourselves but getting high on the weekends and then going back to school on Monday seems to be an activity in the past.  Kids are getting high, doing drugs every day, using needles and are putting themselves at a tremendous risk of contacting any number of diseases, overdosing getting raped etc.

The risks are higher but there doesn’t seem to be any intervention or education in place that is effective.  Most parents, I know, aren’t looking to have perfect kids and know they are going to screw up many times over, like we did, kids express themselves with body jewelry, tattoos, hair style and clothing the same as we did and we understand that it is a natural process, but we all also know the parents who have lost a child to rape, drug overdose , suicide etc. which wasn’t as prevalent when I was young.  We would hear of someone overdosing on drugs and it was a big deal even though it wasn’t anyone we knew or even in our school and it effected us.  Now kids are raped in the class rooms and worse.

So it does put the parents off balance and makes them step back a little more than ours had to.  Most of the parents of these kids in TBS’s are good parents that are engaged in their kids lives and have their kids happiness and future in mind when choosing this step for them.  It may be a control issue for some but I see this as a small minority.


Once again, I think you watch too much TV. I was smoking pot and licking blotters at age 12. That was 1973. I lost my virginity at 14. I was also considered a shy geek. So I contend that as kids we knew as much, if not more, about drugs and sex than kids do now.

In fact, parents these days should be better prepared. My parents were clueless about sex and drugs and teen stuff (they were teens in the 1940s). My generation often says our kids really can't do anything we ourselves did not try. Shouldn't that make us better prepared and more tolerant?

Also, what intervention did they have in those good old days? Straight Inc? I earned a ride home in the back seat of a police cruiser now and again, but pot smoking only earned me detention hall and a lecture, not the jail term they now give kids. I was never suspended because it was commonly believed in those days that the goal was to keep kids in school, not throw them out.

The kids have not changed, Who. The parents have changed. Quite frankly, I think the current crop of young people are, by and large, far more conservative, hard working, and less prone to trouble making than my generation ever was. Drug use, teen pregnancy, and crime statistics seem to bear that out. Here in SC, I am taken aback that teenagers call me 'sir.' It sounds weird.

The fact is that society has become far less tolerant of teen behavior than it used to be. A fight at school was broken up. The police were not called. Pot got you detention hall. Some high schools had smoking areas for students. We had no dress code at my high school. Children could not be tried as adults. It was expected that kids would experiment with sex and alcohol. When the police caught us with alcohol, they'd just confiscate it and leave. Zero tolerance had not been invented, yet.

It is a much more demanding world now. There are far more rules for kids and far stiffer penalties. Kids are required to do way more homework and be scheduled all the time. I heard a woman on the radio (NPR) and she said with a straight face (voice), "Today's young people are used to doing volunteer community work. After all, many high schools require it."  Huh?

Another point is that parents these days expect their kids to be perfect students destined to Ivy League schools. In my day, parents understood some of their kids were not rocket scientists and accepted that C's were good enough for that kid. Not everyone was college bound. That's why we had vo-tech schools.

I hang out with men older than I am (50s and 60s), but we all agree that we feel fortunate that we grew up when we did and not today. We agree it pretty much sucks to be a kid these days. At least compared to the freedoms we had when we were young.

And as for options. Let's face it, the very suggestion of seeing a therapist when I was a kid would cause eyes to roll. There was a huge stigma attached to admitting, let alone treating a mental health issue. Only nut cases did that. Other than varsity sports, there are were no after school programs for kids. We were called 'latch key kids' because we let ourselves into our homes and were on our own until the parents came home.

If we did something strange or acted weird, our parents assumed it was just a stage. They did not jump overboard and rush us to doctors and shove pills down our throats. They did not ship us off to emotional growth schools.

These days, all a kid has to do is squeek and someone wants to shove Ridalin into them. It's ridiculous and most parents I talk to agree with me that schools are intervening way too much and way to soon in the psychological, psychiatric sense.

We have too many interventions, Who, not too few.

The bottom line, Who, is that I think society is far more demanding of its young people than when we were kids and the strain sometimes takes it's toll on some of them.

21
The Troubled Teen Industry / Spare the ax, spoil the child
« on: April 08, 2007, 02:15:15 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
OnStar customers are a very small percentage of the population.

Yeah, you may be correct but I think most cars now have the Keyless-go or similar system, or some type of remote entry system so that kids cant get locked inside.  There are very few cars, that I have seen, that still rely solely on a key to enter the vehicle anymore.

I like the youtube atomic ant.  I had a ’65 1/2 mustang myself years ago, baby blue, gave it up for a Chevy van!  Go figure.


I had three Mustangs; 1979, 1985, 1999.  The first two did not have keyless entry systems. The cop in Chicago busted the window on the '85. It had electric locks.

I double parked to drop a girl at her hotel. I left the engine running and popped the trunk open with the button in the glove box. I got out and took out her bags and closed the trunk. She got out and politely pressed the electric door lock button. She closed the door thinking it only locked her side. Oops.

A cop tried a slim jim. It would not work. I was informed Ford placed a metal plate in the door specifically to thwart slim jims as an anti-theft measure. The cop called a lock smith that wanted $100.00 just to show up. I told the cop to break the glass instead. The window cost about me about $70.00 to replace. It replaced by one of the glass companies that comes to your office in a truck and does it on site.

Oh, it just occurred to me. My son gave me a scare when he was about five. In the 1999 Mustang, I made the mistake of leaving him in the car with the engine running. He locked me out as a joke. Eventually he let me in. I never made that mistake again. They keyless entry system was with him. Inside the car.

22
The Troubled Teen Industry / Spare the ax, spoil the child
« on: April 08, 2007, 02:01:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Eliscu2""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Here in the States, the cops would shoot the windows out and arrest the kid for stealing the car. They would prosecute the kid as an adult.

Leave it to the Who to distort reality, again. OnStar customers are a very small percentage of the population.


And where do you live Atomic Ant. TEXAS?
Here in the Midwest we have a handy little tool called a Slim Jim.
You slide it in between the window and the door and trigger the locking mechanism. It takes the cop about 1-4 minutes! No damage is done to the car! :o

OnStar is for the Rich Folks


When I was in Chicago, a girl locked the keys in my car with motor running (long story). The cop tried your slim jim. It would not work on my car. He smashed the car window with his tire iron. True story.

23
Open Free for All / Go Ask Alice
« on: April 08, 2007, 01:36:02 PM »
The first album I ever bought was Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits. I was twelve. Fortunately, my Ps never confused blasting 'School's Out' over and over as being a drug related activity. They just figured I was twelve. 'Only Women Bleed' is on that album, as well as '18,' a true rock classic.

I never suspected Alice would sell out. His music helped fuel my skepticism. I find that is often that the pendelum swings. People who were once the wildest become the most fundamentalist. Just like people who quit smoking are the most rabid anti-smokers.

Bob Dylan and Alice Cooper became holy rollers. Sometimes I wish I could have stayed in the 60s and 70s. The clothes sucked, but the music was awesome. Those were more revolutionary days, indeed. 'Question Authority!'

24
I did not waste my time reading the second article. The first one was filled with easily documented junk science and distortions.

For example, he states China is exempt. The fact is that China has already passed legislation that requires their automobiles and factories to be less polluting that those in the USA. The Chinese government has watched their environment degrade rapidly since market reforms that the are taking the issue very seriously.

He says the earth has been cooling for 35 years. That is also factually incorrect.

Note the lack of sources cited. He just made this stuff up.

25
Open Free for All / Depression: Finally some common sense.
« on: April 08, 2007, 12:46:32 PM »
Found this in the Charlotte Observer:

http://www.charlotte.com/162/story/72296.html

STUDY SUGGESTS SYMPTOMS CAN BE NORMAL
Definition of depression is challenged
SHANKAR VEDANTAM
Washington Post

WASHINGTON --Up to 25 percent of people whom psychiatrists would currently diagnose as depressed may only be reacting normally to stressful events like divorces or losing a job, according to a new study.

The finding could have far-reaching consequences for the diagnosis of depression, the growing use of symptom checklists in identifying people who might be depressed and the $12 billion a year U.S. market for antidepressant drugs.

Patients are currently diagnosed on the basis of a constellation of symptoms that include sadness, fatigue, insomnia and suicidal thoughts. The diagnostic manual used by psychiatrists says that anyone who suffers from at least five such symptoms for as little as two weeks may be clinically depressed. Only in the case of someone grieving over the death of a loved one is it normal for symptoms to last as long as two months, the manual says.

The new study, however, found that extended periods of depression-like symptoms are common in people who have been through other life stresses such as divorce or a natural disaster and don't necessarily constitute illness.

The study also suggested that drug treatment may often be inappropriate for people who are going through painful -- but normal -- responses to life's stresses. Supportive therapy on the other hand, might be useful.

The researchers, who included Michael First of Columbia University, the editor of the authoritative diagnostic manual, based their findings on a national survey of 8,098 people.

26
Open Free for All / Ten Best Suicide Methods
« on: April 08, 2007, 12:44:50 PM »
I agree with the final sentence of the article. The potential for abuse and legal murder is too great.

Quote
On the other hand, a patient with advanced dementia - someone who has never indicated one way or other whether he wishes to live on in that state - may be deeply distressed and burdened by terrible suffering. Should we allow the close relatives or guardians of such patients to seek legally sanctioned euthanasia for the individual in their care? The argument for compassion in this instance seems to be just as compelling as it is in the case of the patient who had previously indicated an autonomous wish to die. And this argument seems to retain its force whether the patient's condition is terminal or not.


The danger is that the 'close relatives' are the same incompetents that would send kids into programs against their will. These people have no problem forcing misguided decisions onto others.

While I have little problem about someone ending their own life of their own free will, I have big problem with others making that decision for them.

27
The Troubled Teen Industry / Siblings who commit suicide after program
« on: April 06, 2007, 12:49:42 AM »
It certainly does not stretch anyone's imagination that being placed in a program might be the cause of suicidal thoughts or of suicide as a form of escape. The problem is proving it. It would be almost impossible to win such a case in a court of law.

Programs take great care to remove the means to prevent suicide. They would argue these precautions are necessary due to the nature of their prisoners. We might argue these precautions are necessry due to the nature of the program. Perhaps both arguments are correct.

But, if you could prove cause and effect, you could shut a place down quick.

28
Quote from: ""Eliscu2""
"Now there's where I get lost. Why does God change his mind so friggin often. Who'se to say that nobody's added, or subtracted just a word here and there to make life easier. You get my drift. If there Is a God... he probably gave us an in-built "hmm... this is bad" meter. Why do people have to micromanage by saying... No! THIS holy book is the allmighty instruction manual.... Jeez... people all over the place argue "there is only one truth" but nobody seems to aggree on what it is.. which leads me to think we're probably all wrong to look to a book or a man, or a hierarchy, or the state to tell us whether it is right or not to follow one's conscience.

but that's my spiel on, not aetheism, but "we don't know jack shit so let's stop pretending we do"ism. Feel free to disaggree. Hey. I probably have it wrong too."

Here is my Jewish opinion.
There is One G-D
One Creator of everything.

Whatever you choose call it..." May the force be with you" ::hatter::


Evolutionary Psychology is an interesting field. It addresses the question, 'If there is no God, where does morality come from?'

The short answer is that empathy and compassion are survival traits for a social animal.

Ask yourselft this. If God were to disappear, would you become an amoral or immoral person? Do you behave in a moral way only because you are are afraid of hell or seek reward in heaven?

29
The Troubled Teen Industry / Spare the ax, spoil the child
« on: April 05, 2007, 11:53:54 PM »
Here in the States, the cops would shoot the windows out and arrest the kid for stealing the car. They would prosecute the kid as an adult.

Leave it to the Who to distort reality, again. OnStar customers are a very small percentage of the population.

Speaking of kids in cars, this one is entertaining:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZT5mQLy5C4

30
The Troubled Teen Industry / Tenn May Close Program Treating Gayness
« on: April 05, 2007, 11:49:07 PM »
I find it amazing that there are people who believe that sex and flag burning are the most important issues America needs to address. They are such non-issues.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 37