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Messages - Scout

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The Seed Discussion Forum / sayings in the seed and what they really meant.
« on: October 22, 2004, 12:57:00 AM »
Ok, does anyone remember in the later years when we used to say "On my honor as a Seed Kid"?  We usually used this saying when playing a practical joke on someone and if that person said "on your honor as a seed kid?"  you had to absolutely answer honestly because your honor as a seed kid was at stake.  It meant more than saying "on my mother's grave".  I remember when Art first heard us say it, he was very flattered.  This was one cliche that he did not make up, we did.

It's a little embarrassing, isn't it??

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
« on: October 01, 2004, 03:38:00 PM »
Ginger, I don't know you but I understand the cloud that you lived under as a sibling of seed kids..  Because my siblings were in the program for about 2 years before I was, there was always the threat of my going onto the program if I screwed up.  I went to open meetings for 2 years every Friday.  My friends became distant from me for fear that if I went into the seed, that I would rat them out, which of course, I did once I entered the program.  

I remember my friends were not allowed to come over to my house because my olders siblings used drugs and had pretty bad reps.  That was before the seed.  Then, once they went in, my friends still couldn't come over to my house because we were involved with the seed.  The program totally comsumed my life and my families life from the time I was 13 years old.  But then again, so did the drugs and the trouble that goes along with it consume our lives before the seed.  So which is worse?  I know my parents were just trying to do the right thing and they were pretty much at their wits end.  They put me on the front row cuz they thought I was next.  I might have done the same thing if I were them and were looking for help.  What they didn't know was that the seed would alienate us kids from them and cause a much wider communication gap.  Remember parents rap??

Anyway, just thoughts.  And yea, I did go into the St. Pete seed.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
« on: October 01, 2004, 11:07:00 AM »
I have good and bad memories of the seed and my time there but my life today is determined by the choices I make now, not by what happened 30 years ago.  

I was put into the seed at 15 yrs old after my older siblings were already on the program.. both court ordered.  I had smoked pot only 2 times (both times with the same person), and drank alcohol many times.  When I was in my intake interview, staff had gone out to the group and asked if anyone had ever done drugs with me and people said they smoked pot many times and had done speed with me....complete lies (the one person I smoked pot with was not in the seed at the time, but came on the program after me).  Anyway, that sealed my fate and I was put on the front row that day.  I remember telling my oldcomer that they lied but of course, no one believed me.

So, here I am 30 years later.  Do I have a great life...absolutely.  Is it because of the seed?  By all means, not completely.  The time I spent there and the tools they taught me definitely gave me a leg up on life.  Did I miss out on the last years of my high school, Yes.  Those years were full of turmoil and lonliness.  I threw out all my old pictures, yearbooks and memories of my life back then that I can never replace. I look back and wish I hadn't done that but what the heck, it's over and it's water under the bridge.          

This forum is a great way to finally talk about all those years with people that understand.  I have tried over the years to explain but I just get blank stares looking back at me.  I even meet up with my old highschool clique once a year as sort of a reunion (boy, did I break the rules.. no old druggie friends).  Did they all end up in jail or dead...obviously not.  I wouldn't trade places with them though and I would not change my past if it meant not having the life I do now.  

So, my point is that it's good to talk about, understand it, grieve a little for lost years, be grateful for the good parts, and vow to be an involved, attentive, loving, parent who would not put my child in a program like the seed or any other program.  

Enough for now.

Scout

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Conversion: the "Three Day Miracle"
« on: September 19, 2004, 03:32:00 PM »
Hi Greg, I lived with Suzie C and knew her well.  I do not know the circumstances of which she left (do we ever get to know how anyone leaves except when they do it with Art's grace and support!) but I heard recently that she is in North Carolina and is living life.  

John and Pam disappeared from sight between the time I graduated in 1976(I think I remember them dating at the time)and the time I moved to ftlaud. I don't know where Maggie is.

Suzie (Art's niece) died tragically and unecessarily from cancer about 5-6 years ago and left behind a husb and 2 beautiful children.

I always wondered what happened to R Huff?  His death was treated so mysteriously?

I don't remember a rap on intercepting footballs from Art but the games were definitely fixed.  It was an unspoken thing, but if you got thru the line, you better not sack (two-hand touch) Art.  Going to the beach was fun, but every Sat and Sund for years...it got pretty old.  Not to mention nobody wore sunglasses because then you couldn't see someones eyes when you spoke to them.  I am sure they thought we would all try to be cool with sunglasses so that was not allowed.  I wonder how many of us will suffer from that in years to come.  How ridiculous many of the rules or unspoken rules were.  

bye for now,  Scout

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Conversion: the "Three Day Miracle"
« on: September 19, 2004, 01:49:00 AM »
Wally...I sure remember the name... I was also in Ft. Laud from 79'- 84'as a graduate and have many of the same memories and know all the folks you speak of.  For me, I had been a graduate for a few years and lived away from the seed but still felt I had no real direction but more than that, I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere.  When I came back down to the seed, it was like home.  I immediately moved in with the chicks, got a job, and spent every waking moment living and breathing the seed.  I remember I had a day off from work and I decided to stay home, you know, take some time for myself, relax, spend some time by the pool at Cranbrook Apts.  That was the last time I ever did that for 5 years.  I felt so guilty and selfish.  Everyone spent every available moment at the seed and if you didn't, something was wrong with you.  It always seemed wrong to me that it was okay to lie and take a day off from work to go into the seed, and it was perfectly okay with staff.  In fact, a person was almost praised for doing so.  There were so many times when I just wanted some time to myself but I was never alone.  The girls I lived with were very nice and I really made some life-long friends.  I am still friends with some to this day.  

I left because I wanted to have a life.  It took a while before I could re-adjust to the outside world because I had been taught to be so anti-social, reserved, judgemental.  Dating was a nightmare mainly because I had done so little of it, I didnt know the first thing to do.  In the 5 years I was in Ft.Laud., I didn't have one date and I was in my early twenties. It was pretty pathetic and I didn't see the opportunity happening anytime soon.  I really don't see how Art could expect any of the people there at that time to be satisfied with that lifestyle... which is why he wisend-up and started setting people up.  I think he realized if he didn't let people start having relationships with someone of the opposite sex, he was going to have a mutiny on his hands.  I have heard of a few leaving because they got in trouble "playing games" (In the outside world, it's simply flirting or light conversation with someone you are attracted to) or seeing someone on the sly.

Anyway, it is a little embarrassing and has taken a while to admit that I was a part of a cult.  While I was involved, I believed I was part of the greatest thing on earth and I could not see anything else.  Sure, I had doubts, questions, but I attributed them to not being grateful and if all these great people felt this way, I must make myself feel the same.  So many times when Art was in front of the group and everyone would be just gushing with admiration, I would think to myself, he's just a man, a person, just like us.  Doesn't anybody else see that??? He was good man with good intentions at the start but that changed when it slowed down and fewer and fewer people were coming on the program.  I think he realized he had to do something to keep us there.  That's when he would say in a rap that it's the "cream of the crop that are at the seed", the best, because "you have to be your best all the time to stay there"  and it's a "priviledge" to be at the seed.  So, of course, who wanted to look like a schmuck and leave and get on with their lives???  Art gave many people the chance to start over, and for many, he did save their lives, but he also used his power and influence to hold on to the ones that remained from about '84 till it closed in 2002.

I have enjoyed reading the posts and hearing names from the past.  It's strange.  It's like we were all a part of this group and will forever have a common link between us.  I am not bitter because I had the courage to leave and make my way in the world, but I understand those that are.  Do I have regrets...sure, I wish I had wisened-up sooner and left Ft.Laud. but I am grateful I did.  I have a wonderful life now.  

bye til next time......Scout

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