Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: schacherer on January 27, 2005, 08:56:00 PM
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I recently posted a part of my story about the Whitmore. I was just reading some of the past articles about the Whitmore and I cam across one about abuse. While I was at the Whitmore I had kissed one of the boys there and we had a marathon group about it. The group started at about 6:30 at night and did't end until about 3:00 in the morning. The next day we were made to get up on schedule at 5:00. Anyways, after the group one of the girls Anneliese came up to me upstairs where I was in the closet room (where I was made to sleep for a week) and she said she wanted to talk to me. One of the things she started out with was "Cheryl told me to come up here and teach you a lesson, and she also gave me permission to do whatever the hell I wanted to do to you because you and just a little slut and a whore, you are worthless and thats why you do things with boys" after she was finished talking she got real close to my face and spit in it, after that she slapped me on the cheek a couple of times adn then she punched me in the stomache. There was nothing I could do because no body else was around and this girl was about 150lbs or more than me. I was so scared and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
The next time I got in trouble we had gone to Lake Powell and while we were there I stole pills from one of the boys there, they were prescription pills that Mark and Cheryl knew about that he had in his backpack, anyway me and two fo the other girls took them together. When we got caught Cheryl brought us into a room and yelled at me, but the other two girls she said that she felt sorry for so she was hugging them and telling them that she understood. Then she made them leave the room. When they left she started cussing at me and then threw a stack of huge books at me. Then she came up to me and spit on me and pulled my hair and practically threw me over a chair. Again there was nothing I could do.
There was also another incident with the boys, there was a boy named Tony in the program when I had forst gotten there, he got in trouble for something and some of the boys that were mad at him asked Cheryl if the could beat him up, and she said "what i dont know anything about it if anyone asks" so they took the boy out on the side of the mansion where they park the cars and they (dusty, rob, aaron, cory, brian, and a few of other boys just started kicking him and punching him and they got him on the ground and they hit his head on one of the cars and they were hurting him really bad. He couldnt do anything.
Cheryl doesn't care about anything but herself. I think she takes drugs that don't belong to her. In june of 2004 i fell off of my horse and i broke my ribs and sprained my ribs and i had a few pretty big bumps on my head, i got three bottles of pills, lorotabs, ibproufin 800, and perkasets. they are pain killers, well i didnt take very many of them because my mom said that they werent good for me and plus they made me sick so there were a lot left in the bottles. I went home in july and i moved back to Utah to live on my own in the beginning of August, i went back to the Whitmore to get the pills so I could send them to my mom and there was one lorotab left and about 3 ibproufins, and i wondered where did the rest of my pills go? I had asked Cheryl and she said she didnt know. How is this a good place to send your child when they are missing pills? Mark and Cheryl always leave their downstairs bedroom door open and unlocked, its not hard to go down there and get whatever you want, trust me, i know.
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Leah,
What do you know about the boy who ran away the Christmas of 2003 while his Mom was in flight to see him? What do you know about him getting beaten up by some of the boys at the "boys house." What do you know about his relationship with Cheryl that turned so bad. You were there at the same time. You were so comforting to me during such a painful time. I will always remember how kind you and the other kids were to me. I know you have many answers. Can you share with us what you know? It would help so much.
Fondly,
Alum Mom
PS... My son has also made references about the closet room.
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I can attest to everything leah is saying i was in the program with her and every thing she is saying is 100% true
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If you were there with Leah, you were there with my son. I probably met you too. Can you answer the questions I asked Leah in the posting below yours? Just curious...
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lets not mention all the times she'd get someone trust and then backstab them over and over and over and over and over and over...i dont need to go on...she was understood finally, as to why she treated people so good and then dump their hearts on a platter...she had a history that proved that the outer circle (7 habits for highly effective people)affected her heart, it was never fair to her- a lot of things werent fair to her and because of that she suddenly turns into the things that hurt her! its so horrible whats happening...she says shes your friend and would do anything for you, that all the lies and cheats with drugs and sex were a part of someone she didnt want to be...if she's changed this, that's absolutely wonderful, but the most abusive part is that she is still a part of manipulation. its an evil thing, manipulation. so when you pay so close attention to her posts, dont forget that everyone has flaws, and hers are of hurting family and friends in a cycle that is still spinning- obviously. she could be the sweetest person, and amazing at influencing people- too bad she cant do that when shes spending time on this site. use words wisely, you cant erase whats typed and posted! so stop talking about the past, stop twisting the real story.
-gypsy
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cheryl?
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no, i, gypsy, am not cheryl...im a friend.
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I think they were asking who you were talking about; Cheryl or someone else?
Understand that legal and illegal are political, and often arbitrary,
categorizations; use and abuse are medical, or clinical, distinctions.
--Abbie Hoffman
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this site could be useful but i feel it is evil. it makes me wonder who is right and wrong. evil attacks good. the downfall of this nation will be when good men do nothing. this site makes people focus on nothing. nothing but crap. get a life grandma.... maybe your example could help your grandaughter.
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what did you do mess up with her mom so your clinging to her child. sounds like she is pretty sick. if you love her so much why did you send her away in the first place? and why did she stay so long.?
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i payed over 70 thousand dollors for my daughters placement. she didnt have what your grandaughter did. maybe you should start with grattitude? it might wear off on your grandaughter. you sound so ungrateful. if i could find a place under 40 grand that offered what this place did.i would send my son. can someone who is grateful please tell me more about it?
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who but a drug addict would try and get painpills after so many months had gone by. your sick girl. go to a doctor.
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hey liar. i was there when cheryl supposedly yelled at you. we all yelled at you. and the other girls to; they just werent as fake as you and were actually real about the whole thing. and bimbo she never spit in your face. you spit in hers just like you did justin and alot of other kids. screw you
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The problem is that parents are duped into thinking they are getting something that they are not. Education is important, as evidenced here by the misuse of words that any high school student should know. Attacking me is not the answer. It just proves that what should be being taught is not happening as evidenced by a lot of the postings on this site. The more I read, the more I am convinced there is a problem in the methods used and promises made by the Sudweeks for the care of the kids in their care.
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On 2005-02-04 05:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"this site could be useful but i feel it is evil. it makes me wonder who is right and wrong.
That's not evil. It's good for you to wonder who's right and wrong. It's evil to try and prevent people from thinking for themselves.Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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I have a problem paying for something that I did not get. I really don't care if it is seven cents or $70,000. I really think anyone who thinks gratitude is in order here needs to think twice. Do you think that the Sudweeks would do what they say they do on a voluntary basis?
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You posted "this site makes people focus on nothing but CRAP." That is not true. I am a parent, and my focus is on the kids--those who are home from Whitmore, and those kids who are still at Whitmore, and none of the kids are CRAP!
Now the Sudweeks may treat you kids like crap. The Sudweeks may allow you kids to talk like your mouths are full of crap. You may disrepect adults and attack them with crappy words and mistruths feed to you by the Sudweeks---but none of you kids are CRAP.
Every Whitmore kid is there because your parents THOUGHT and BELIVED the absolute CRAP that the Sudweeks advertise on their websites and in their glossy little brochures.
Your parents believed you would have REAL school, with REAL teachers, and REAL group therapy with a REAL therapist, not some raving woman who is not a licensed therapist.
This site is not crap. You kids are not crap.
The only crap you are being exposed to is the Sudweeks and their shitty little program.
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I understand the abuse at Whitmore continues, and that there's a new kid there who "is not getting the program or accepting all this FAMILY Love, Groups and isolation and communication with his real family
He seems to be the NEW JOEY, and we all know what that means!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone out there knows how to reach this boy's parents, let them know they need to go and get this boy out of there!!!!
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If anyone knows this boy's parents(who should respectfully remain nameless)please tell them that he is in a great place to get the help he needs. Teens helping teens (hopefully he's not 12 like that one girl,cuz that's just sad that a a parent losses control at this age)No parent gladly sends their child away, they are trying to save them from their spiralling behavior at their hometown schools. Cuz it is just not working for these kids.
To the ungrateful ones that mistakenly thought this was a traditional school for kids having trouble with math...you were mistaken and I'm sure noone sold this special school as such. Most of these kids are being taught many things they are lacking like how to express their feelings and not act out in ways that got them into this situation.
Lets stop coming here and listening to the crap talkers, instead,
Lets say a prayer for all those kids who struggle to find themselves safely in this protected setting. Thank God for The Whitmore, a safe place to learn life's lessons.
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I agree we need to pray for those children still at The Whitmore. Trust me, they need many prayers! While you are saying your prayers, please pray for the ones who are home dealing with the new baggage from their "life lessons" at The Whitmore! Our children got an education on things we never imagined they could experience,and certainly wouldn't have paid for them to experience. Forty thousand would have paid for an excellent math tutor or private school locally. No, those of us who sent our children to The Whitmore were promised many things that were not delivered and delivered things that were not promised. It is not a matter of being ungrateful. It is a matter of having a contract breached, laws broken, codes ignored and trust violated. Any atttorney can confirm this and has. So yes, please, let us all pray and pray for those there and those home!
Praying Fool
(new to this site, referred by another parent)
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On 2005-02-10 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
To the ungrateful ones
Why is it that anyone who criticizes the program is deemed 'ungrateful'???
that mistakenly thought this was a traditional school for kids having trouble with math...you were mistaken and I'm sure noone sold this special school as such.
How, exactly, are you "sure" of this???? Specifics of your knowledge of this information please.
Most of these kids are being taught many things they are lacking like how to express their feelings and not act out in ways that got them into this situation.
Really?? Have you read any of the posts here from kids that are either currently in there or fairly recently out?? It speaks volumes about how they're being taught to "express themselves".
Lets stop coming here and listening to the crap talkers,
Yeah, wouldn't want to clutter up your brain with any kind of original or critical thought now would you? You just keep rolling right along with your devotion to The Whitmore.....pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :roll: :roll:
A bishop keeps on saying at the age of eighty what he was told to say at the age of eighteen.
--Oscar Wilde
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On 2005-02-10 15:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
Praying Fool
(new to this site, referred by another parent)"
Welcome!
It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.
--Joseph Goebbels
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On 2005-02-10 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
Most of these kids are being taught many things they are lacking like how to express their feelings and not act out in ways that got them into this situation.
Exactly what are those things these kids are lacking and how, exactly, are they being taught? Do you know? Do you understand what you've been sold? Or do you just "trust the process"?
Cause, as I understand it, they're selling something that has never and can never exist. They're selling involuntary behavior modification done w/ love and encouragement. Either it's voluntary or you have to first break the kid's will. There is no pretty or gentle way to do that. A student burst into his office. "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me." To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler
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Then if lawyers can prove it and you are so convinced of all these unbeleivable stories, then why don't you quit wasteing your time here and do something about it, let the courts decide Whitmores fate. The investigation is over and the lawyers haven't been able to prove anything or the children would have been sent back home to search out another avenue for recovery.
There has to be a better venue for parents to voice concerns without listening to the skrew balls who post on this site.
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Sorry for your misinformation, but the investigation is far from over. Several people have given statements to the police in the past few days including myself and 4 others I know of. I have personally spoken to the detective in charge of the investigation in the past few days. He assured me it is in full swing. The file is actually a box due to the number of complaints/reports filed! If you would like to confirm this you are free to call him yourself. His name is Justin Kimball at the Nephi police department. He informed me the case is so big and involved due to the number of charges, they are trying to get it turned over to the state attorney's office. Sound like it is over?? Not by a long shot! Posting information here is not a waste of time. Valuable witnesses/victims surface each and every day. The attorneys are doing their jobs as well. As far as the screwballs, it is easy to filter them out. So which are you? And why do you spend your time here??
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To Anon who asked about the 12 year old who was placed because "the parent had lost control of this child."
Not all children were placed at the Whitmore because they were "out of control."
This girl was placed at the Whitmore because she had a diagnois of Reactive Attachment Disorder which is common with children raised in an orphanage.
The Sudweeks SAID they had 14 adopted children at the Whitmore, and that they, in fact had an adopted daugther themeselves, and that their programs---besides offering an "excellent academic school, and an excellent equine horse program"....could offer therapy to help with this RAD disorder.
And the Sudweeks state in their contract:
That no children who are dangerous, or who have a history of violent behavior will be accepted at Whitmore.
SO--some parents actually THOUGHT they were sending their childrent to a very nice boarding, academic school, that offered therapy for a specific problem.
Not all parents sent their children there because their child WAS OUT OF CONTROL.
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Antigen, how does one do "involuntary behavioral modification with love?" that sounds like a contradiction.....
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Excellent question. One I've been asking and asking. But no one who sells it seems to be willing to divulge the recipe.
Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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So, what's the deal with all this?? Seriously, how is this mansion set up? How big are the grounds?
http://www.utah.com/database/lodging/?s ... lodging=1& (http://www.utah.com/database/lodging/?search_id=362&all_lodging=1&)
Whitmore Mansion Bed & Breakfast Inn
AMENITIES Back to Nephi Lodging
Entertainment/Relaxation Price
? VCR in Room
? Jetted Tub in Room
? Hot Tub
? Television in Room
? Movies/Movie Channel
? $50 - $75
? $76 - $125
Food Services Credit Cards Accepted
? Restaurant on Property
? Full Breakfast
? American Express
? Master Card
? Visa
? Discover
General Amenities Accreditations
? Pets Allowed
? No Smoking Rooms
? Discounts Available
? Direct Dial Phones in Room
? AAA
? BBIU
Hotel Services
? Guest Laundry
? Conference/Meeting Facilities
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Guess they're hiring.
:lol:
http://utahhospitalityjobs.com/Company%20Profiles.htm (http://utahhospitalityjobs.com/Company%20Profiles.htm)
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She speaks about her "community involvement". Wonder if she won??
http://www.nephitimesnews.com/0304/033104/1.htm (http://www.nephitimesnews.com/0304/033104/1.htm)
Laeysa Sudweeks is the daughter of Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks. She will perform a vocal solo. "I've been teaching an animal science class. My parents have a program for teens and I've been teaching them to ride horses." She enjoys singing for the senior citizens.
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On 2005-02-11 16:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Guess they're hiring.
:lol:
http://utahhospitalityjobs.com/Company%20Profiles.htm (http://utahhospitalityjobs.com/Company%20Profiles.htm)"
been there done that and have the T shirt. NEVER AGAIN.
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Is there any chance this new boy you are talking about is Luke?
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I am Anneliese's sister. It is wrong for you to use her name on the site in the context of accusation. She was sent to the Whitmore because she was deeply troubled, and she was one of the many brainwashed by Cheryl into being an "attack dog" (her own words). The mistreatment of students like you by others is indefensible, but it pales in comparison to the malignance of the person who would allow it and encourage it--and that person is Cheryl.
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I would like to apologize for using Anneliese's name in the context it was used. I know now how she was made to do what she did. I do not blame her, I blame Cheryl. Cheryl has created a lot of problems for the kids that they didn't even have before they were at Whitmore. She is a very evil person.
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The Whitmore Bed and Breakfast deal, don't you think the parents who have kids there might ought to be worried that some phedophile group might want to use that place for a little weekend retreat? Kids of all ages hanging out there!!! What a treat for a bunch of kid-lovers!
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To Annilese's sister. Your sister needs to just work through her guilt and forgive herself, because she had no choice about carrying out Cheryl Sudweek's order to mistreat other students--- if that is what she did. No one blames her at all. None of the kids came to Whitmore to become involved in hurting each other. Thier parents sent them there for help, not to become involved in hurting each other. My heart goes out to her.
Speaking out and telling the proper authorities about her experiences at Whitmore could be a healing process for her. Making people accountable for what they did wrong will make her strong and help her develop more self-esteem.
I am happy that you are there for her.
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Lady, you're one sick individual. Whitmore is one of the best places you could possibly send your child. those children receive more love there than you could obviously give your own child. :roll:
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Soooo, just exactly what is happening to this NEW boy. This is is mother. Can you tell me why he is so unhappy. You obviously aren't!!!
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Cayo Hueso, have you not figured out that the "VOLUMES" of kids on this site are really only 2 or 3 kids, that most of children who leave Whitmore do so with a more optimistic view of life. You know, you really should visit the Mansion. You might be surprised.
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"involuntary behavioral modification with love"?? It's called respect! Anybody hear of it?? Most teenagers don't receive it. Does yours?
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Is there a problem with Whitmore needing more help? I would think that is a positive thing. What is wrong with you people??? You look for anything to put them down!!. . . even needing employees! Don't most companies need help??
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On 2005-02-15 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Cayo Hueso, have you not figured out that the "VOLUMES" of kids on this site are really only 2 or 3 kids...
What makes you think that? Seriously. I'm not asking if you believe it to be true or not. I assume that you do. But why? On what do you base your belief that there are only a couple of people posting critically of the Whitmore?...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
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How do you know it's not only a couple of kids? How do you know what happens at Whitmore? Have you been there?...or do you just take other people's word for what they say? Have you every met Cheryl and Mark? What do you really know?...and why are you out to get them? If you have been there and you know them personally, then I guess it's only your opinion. But, if you have never experienced Whitmore, you have no right to say the things you do. Some kids like a certain school or even church, some don't. Sooo, they just attend another school or church. Whitmore is not perfect for every family and if there are parents who don't like it, then don't put your kids there. But stop making it so difficult for the kids who do go there. They have a right to take advantage of the opportunities Whitmore has to offer. All this stuff that's going on over this website and others is really hurting the kids that are there. They are trying to work on their problems, and people like you and others on this site just want to continue to hurt them. Why? Alot of kids will say anything for attention and even revenge, but it's obvious they were not the one's that worked out. But, I think, as a whole, Whitmore is a good place with good people. I really think it's a little hard to believe ??brainwashing??? C'mon, give it a rest. If Whitmore was a cult or trying to brainwash the kids, don't you think they would stay permanently so they could build their CULT??? For what purpose do they want a cult or to brainwash the kids? No, Mark and Cheryl are just normal people trying to help the teens in this world because it's the world that's really messed up. So, the kids go to church. If the parents don't believe in God :smile: , the child should not be there. They may have a different way of approaching their problems, but why does that make them bad people. Are parents of teens perfect? Well, we obviously expect them to be, don't we. If a parent wants a more structured environment for their child, send them elsewhere. Whitmore is a more family-type environment, including trust and respect and drama and everything else that goes along with a family situation. And, guess what? It's not perfect! I might be wrong, but don't families have arguments....don't brothers and sisters fight...? And, I do know the comments on this website are only 3 kids and a couple of parents of kids that caused alot of problems at Whitmore. But, the world is full of bad seeds. Whitmore just seemed to get more than its fair share!
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Gypsy is TORI DEGARMO :smile:
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and Tory...i pity you. Out of any one i would think that you would be one of the ones to also come forth and tell the truth. You are a very wise person, no doubt about that.
Do you truly think that lyin about what happened with Joey anda ll the other crap to cover for Cheryl and MARK was the right thing to do? When is it for the right time for an honest man to lie? do you remember that question you asked me??? i thought about it long and hard. I think the answer should be no. Especially if the whitmore is such a "Loving Family" like you guys loved eachother soo much.
If they were really a family they would do whut was best for eachother instead of burying the truth with a bunch of crap which has made it worse. Since Cheryl is so big on her "Karma" theory...it will come for her , meaning she will somehow realize that she will have to take all of the accountability for the actions she did to others and let what happen go on and on.
yEAH I HAD my good times there and bad ones too. I have taken the good and left the bad. You don't need to be there any more Tory, go out and conquer your real dream > peace corps or whutever. I know u have a special gift of helping people cause u were really the only one there who helped me truly and i luv you for that. You're almost 18. Go on with your life and realize that they have you trapped too. think about it.
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On 2005-02-15 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Cayo Hueso, have you not figured out that the "VOLUMES" of kids on this site are really only 2 or 3 kids, that most of children who leave Whitmore do so with a more optimistic view of life. You know, you really should visit the Mansion. You might be surprised."
This is what I actually wrote:
Really?? Have you read any of the posts here from kids that are either currently in there or fairly recently out?? It speaks volumes about how they're being taught to "express themselves".
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#81624 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8003&forum=35&start=20#81624)
I said that the posts from however many kids SPEAKS volumes about what they're being taught in there. Although I personally don't believe its only 2 or 3 kids I don't know for sure.
Here's a question that's never really been answered. Why, if Cheryl cares so much about these kids, is she allowing them to take on the burden of defending her???? We all know she's reading these posts....why can't she come here and defend herself? Why does she feel she needs to use these kids to do it for her?Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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On 2005-02-27 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Gypsy is TORI DEGARMO :smile: "
Don't know who these people are, but there is a person with the same last name (DeGarmo) listed as a "parent volunteer" for PURE.
http://helpyourteens.com/about_us.html (http://helpyourteens.com/about_us.html)
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If you read these postings, it seems clear that it is probably Tori using the name Gypsy.
PURE's roll appears to just keep the beds full at Whitmore, and make the referral fees, not to chat back and forth in this teenage bickering, as heartbreaking as some of the diaglog is.
It does seem strange and almost likea bad business decision to me anyway that a few referrals fees seem so be so important to PURE, who keeps sending kids to Whitmore, some even by "escorts" (that's a nice sounding word now isn't it?)when the Sudweeks are still under investigation for child abuse, sexual abuse and other charges. If I were in this business of sending kids to a treatment program (not that I'd ever consider doing this for a living)--I'd sure back off from this place until I was assured that all the criminal investigations were OVER...just to be on the safe side. And if for no other reason, just to satisfy myself that for sure, I wasn't putting any kid in any danger. But, that's just my opinion...and no one asked me, now did they?
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Replying to Anonymous:
You said: "If you don't like it, don't put your kid here."
We placed our daughter at Whitmore based on a lot of misrepresentations in the literature that the Sudweeks had on the internet, and in their brochures about Whitmore. We also listened to what Mark Sudweeks, Tim Lowe, and Sue Scheff from PURE told us about Whitmore--and most of it was UNTRUE. So we had no way to know if we "liked it or not--except what was based on a bunch of lies."
You said that kids were writing negative things on this site just to "get revenge." Just what do you think kids have to get revenge about? The definition of revenge in Websters is: retaliation for an offense or injury. So it stands that to seek "revenge," these kids had to have been hurt badly in someway to begin with.
You also stated that in a FAMILY that "brothers and sisters fight." That may be true; BUT the parents in a normal family DO NOT have several siblings gang up on one sibling and beat him or her mercilessly. And brothers and sisters in a normal FAMILY do not engage in sexual activities that are approved of by the parents--that is called INCEST.
You are attempting to defend the indefensible.
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On 2005-02-15 15:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
Have you every met Cheryl and Mark?
No thanks, I've had to deal with my share of cult leaders already.
What do you really know?...and why are you out to get them?
I'm not out to get them. I am out to expose them however.
Whitmore is not perfect for every family and if there are parents who don't like it, then don't put your kids there.
Joyce addressed this point quite successfully.
But stop making it so difficult for the kids who do go there.
How are we making it difficult? And why arent' Cheryl and Mark here defending themselves? Why do they put the burden on you kids to do that?
They have a right to take advantage of the opportunities Whitmore has to offer.
They have a right to be duly informed as to what really goes on inside there.
I might be wrong, but don't families have arguments....don't brothers and sisters fight...?
Yes, but they're usually not instructed by their "parents" to beat on other kids.
And, I do know the comments on this website are only 3 kids and a couple of parents of kids that caused alot of problems at Whitmore.
I'd be raising hell too if I was promised therapy and an education for my child and was then provided with NEITHER.
But, the world is full of bad seeds. Whitmore just seemed to get more than its fair share!"
Whitmore IS the bad seed!!!I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
--Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect
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The investigating authorties may want to talk to the so called adopted daughters.Sexual crimes cross many boundaries.
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Which "so called adopted daughters" should the authorities talk to anon?
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The daughters being scapegoated to have negleted the animals in Canda.
Why playing dumb? You know better than I about the daughters.
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OK. The daughters Mark Sudweeks tried to blame for the horse abuse up in Canada. That would be his and Cheryl's daughters, Shayla and Trinity. The other is Darlene, the foster child that they lie and say they adopted.
I guess one would have to ask these three if they have been abused mentally, emotionally, physically or sexually by Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks, only they would know.
And yes, abuse does cross all boundaries.
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I understand Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks have two minorn children of their own living at the Whitmore Academy among all this mess.
One is a 17 year old girl and the other is an 11-12 year old boy.
Understand they get this fine quality education, get to be involved in these "group sessions" and view all the beatings, eat this nutritious food, and wathch their mother behave in public like a raving maniac, and get to watch their father acting out too.
Wonder why all those social workers wandering around during this investigation didn't take notice of this?
Maybe these two kids need to be sent off to a REAL BOARDING SCHOOL instead of living in this mess.
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The stories of abuse and neglect that the former students of Whitmore are telling their parents just make a person heartsick.
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If the Sudweeks show not respect for thier own kids, how can Whitmore parents expect them to repect the students?
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What is the deal with you rich people? You have way too much money. Is this what you do in order to raise your kids, send them to a $40,000.00 a year boarding school because your don't want to deal with them or have them interupt your country club parties and political fundraisers? Why don't you become less self involved and greedy and spend more time with your children and raise them to be good, productive people in society. It is interesting how many wealthy people have dysfunctional lives and families. Most of you people are hooked on drugs and have no morals. Hardworking middle class people like myself who do all they can to be productive and become educated will pay the bill for your children's incarceration. Get control of your children, and do it now. The average American is getting sick of your problems and complaning. Money really can't buy happiness.
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Why thanks double O 7
Think you solved it all!
Have all those rich folks just give their money away---problem's solved!
What's your bank account number. Can just send all that nasty ole money to YOU!
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007, I don't think you're entirely wrong. But I don't think it's just a few warped parents, either. I think this is the direction in which our society is moving. And that's terrifying!
You probably have wondered (if you've looked around other forums on this server and noticed, anyway) why some of us are still talking about these stupid programs 10, 20 or even 30 years after the fact. I can't speak for anyone else, but my interest has to do w/ trying to understand how an industry as messed up as this one has found purchase in our culture(s).
I think it fits w/ a trend toward trusting the professionals over our own common sense and customs. And it's everywhere. Women used to give birth at home, with or w/o the help of a doctor. Now, we have doctors offering entirely optional c-sections; taking total charge of your new baby and the new mother even before the baby is born. We don't send our kids to school because we value education. We send them to school because it's illegal not too and, I suspect, a lot of people do it because they have NO idea what to do w/ kids. They and everyone they ever knew were raised by hired strangers from a very young age.
So when these strangers tell you your kid is disordered, most people don't even consider that the professional might be trippin'. They go ahead and drug the kid or send the kid to therapy or whatever they're advised to do. When that only makes matters worse, they move on to the next, more radical 'treatment'.
So when some joker comes along promising the cure for all that ails them, they just do what they've always done; ignore their gut and their own good sense and trust the "professionals".
May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin
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Damn, no play here at all??? :wink:
May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin
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Think most parents tried the "professional route"and when things didn't get a whole lot better at home that's when things really got fucked up and out of hand. The parents got on the internet, read all the glowing Ed Con bull shit and thought they had found THE ANSWER. For most of these parents, it sounded like "manna from heavean." Then the parents call these brainwashed program parents and hear all this testimony about how the PROGRAM saved NOT ONLY THE KID but the whole damn family!!!!
Can't sign that contract and get that escort service to the house fast enough.
If and when reality sets in, we bring our kids home, and start all over again: TRYING TO DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH OUR KIDS--- and here we all are on fornits trying to figure things out, and usually getting the boop beat out of us.
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But why, anon? What do you think of my reasoning on the topic. Don't we trust strangers and hired help way too much w/ our kids? Is it just my glowing memory of days gone by, or is this very much different from the way we used to raise kids?
There is so much in the bible against which every insinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end. I do not think that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention.
--Helen Keller, American lecturer
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**007**
I read your post on the previous page, I really tried to understand where you were coming from...but I'm having a hard time.
OK, in response to your comments aimed at the "stupid, rich parents" of these kids, let me set this straight. My dad works 10-12 hour days as a construction worker - not a plush job. Neither of my parents have drug problems and they certainly do have morals. I have five siblings, 3 of which my parents are helping put through college. My parents were at their wit's end with me. I was acting out, drinking, doing drugs, just being crazy. They didn't want to send me away but they had to if they didn't want me to end up in juvie, which was where I was headed. They were not just sending me to boarding school cause they'd rather not have to deal with the responsibility of having kids...they had no choice. Another thing, the Whitmore was definitely not some ritzy boarding/prep school. It was advertised as a RTC (residential treatment center) emphasizing family values, structured like a family home etc. It sounds perfect for people who want a really good nurturing environment for their troubled child. It was obviously not what it was advertised to be. My parents are still recovering financially from my stay there and I've been home for almost a year! Please withold such strong statements about people and their families. [ This Message was edited by: Tha Truth on 2005-06-15 19:21 ][ This Message was edited by: Tha Truth on 2005-06-15 19:30 ]
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i have to agree with Annie on that one. You cannot open your mouth making comments about families and such that you do not even know. My parents are so far in debt right now, and by no means are they or were they "rich." In fact, they had to get a lot of help with sending me away. Their intentions were not that they did not want to deal with me anymore. In fact, they tried relentless times, and each time, I got worse and more rebellious. They did not want to see me get even worse than I was with their efforts. They tried, and I love my parents for that. I do not know about your family, but Ive got a DAMN good one! :smile:
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Don't know that we "TRUST" strangers all that much with our kids, but we sure turn the responsibility of raising them over to strangers a whole lot. Just look at 20/20 or Prime Time. Over and over we see these programs with people using video tapes in their homes "catching" the Nanny beating their kids, even little babies! It does make you wonder--what the heck is going on?
In the "glowing days" you speak of--Moms stayed home with thier kids, toughed it out financially...and felt being home with their kids was more important than the two-incomes. And when parents needed ADVICE, they went to THEIR parents and asked---not some shrink! When kids "acted out," there was discipline and rules....not ritalin and all this medications. And I don't mean: physical abuse either, when I say discipline!
People now just want the quick-fix. Sometimes we just might need to sit back and do what parents did back then as silly as it might sound and WAIT a bit: SOMETIMES these kids do "grow out of some of this foolishness" that we let others call UNCONTROLLABLE BEHAVIOR.
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but sometimes there comes a point where you cannot wiat until the kid "grows out," and the parents put so much more effort into it. I know that I love my parents for what they did, and I am glad that they did it when they did. I was getting worse as each day went on, and getting into more and more trouble.
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No OTHER alternatives? A relative out of state away from the current friends/situation?
In house treatment in your OWN TOWN where there is available individual and family treatment?
There are alternatives other than sending the kid away from home.
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Ok, but why so many?
Anon (last, above) and Anne, I'll take your word for it that you actually were in serious trouble. But how come? What really went wrong?
Then there are the other kids who wind up in this fix; like Chris G. Based on Mary's description of things, he was an excellent student and over-achiever. No problem, except he smoked some pot. That makes him absolutely no different from roughly half of highschool aged kids nationwide (factoring in the very conservative enclaves in this country where far fewer teenagers try pot)
Why are so many kids so overly anguished or confused or whatever? And why do so many parents lose thir grip when their nearly grown kids engage relatively normal, harmless activities?
I honestly think it has a lot to do w/ the shift in customs and attitudes since we started compulsory schooling and the overall medicalization/scientification of child rearing.
I think that today's parents lack confidence in their own ability to handle whatever happens. And we also lack the neighborhood support we used to have. Used to be that if you did anything wrong, even something as trivial as cut through a yard where the owner didn't allow it, somebody would eventually tell your parents. And you'd be made to knock on the door, apologize and promise never to do it again. Now, the neighbors don't even know your parents. You either get away w/ whatever you want or they call the cops. There is no in between. Either you walk the straight and narrow or you're damned for all time.
Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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I apologize for grouping all families as rich. I am glad to hear you are doing better and you were able to overcome your problems, congrats.
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I apologize for grouping all families as rich. I am glad to hear you are doing better and you were able to overcome your problems, congrats.
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well, i understand where you are coming from completely..in fact, there were relatives in our family who were upset with my parents for not "handling" it themselves. I can see exactly where you are coming from, but to be honest with you, if my parents had done alternative methods such as family or whatever, it wouldnt have been any better. My other relatives live in New York, and the area they live in..is not exactly the best. My parents actaully considered that, but for some reason, I dont remember exactly what, it wouldnt have worked out. All I know is that my parents did what they thought were best, and it did work out well. I do know some kids that I lived with though that had parents who just wanted them out of the house and out of their way, which I thought was entirely wrong.
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ginger i know its hard for you to understand but chris was so different as a child and will probably not like me posting this. He was what most people would call a computer geek writing programs at age 8, he went to a very spiritfilled church and didnt even have a girlfriend till he went away to prep school. he left a kid with short hair who went on all his church trips and was great friends with his pastor tj then i get this call from his prep school, i would have bet in a million years he would have never done drugs, there are no words for how shocked i was. In my day all of the information was pot was the gateway to the really hard stuff i have never tried drugs, smoked and i dont drink and i didnt in my teen years at christophers age i wanted to go on a missions trip in mexico and the only person i knew on drugs ruined his life totally. I wanted to protect chris so that he would be able to make his dreams come true and live a happy life. I was afraid that he would go down a path that could lead to death and i wanted to protect him and i wasnt the person to try and help him because i have zero understanding of why anyone would do drugs. As for it being considered normal teenage behavior that was not my reality none of my friends kids were going that route or at least they didnt say so. Yesterday chris saw batman and there isnt a day in his life i dont support him but i dont want him to make decisions that could ruin his life . We talk everyday and i have never turned my back on him andi have the right not to support what i think is wrong but in the end he will decide what becomes of his life.
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Isn't your husband A MEDICAL DOCTOR, LADY?
What the hell is wrong with YOU?
GO GET DE-PROGRAMMED!
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On 2005-06-16 15:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ginger i know its hard for you to understand but chris was so different as a child and will probably not like me posting this. He was what most people would call a computer geek writing programs at age 8, he went to a very spiritfilled church and didnt even have a girlfriend till he went away to prep school. he left a kid with short hair who went on all his church trips and was great friends with his pastor tj then i get this call from his prep school, i would have bet in a million years he would have never done drugs, there are no words for how shocked i was. In my day all of the information was pot was the gateway to the really hard stuff i have never tried drugs, smoked and i dont drink and i didnt in my teen years at christophers age i wanted to go on a missions trip in mexico and the only person i knew on drugs ruined his life totally. I wanted to protect chris so that he would be able to make his dreams come true and live a happy life. I was afraid that he would go down a path that could lead to death and i wanted to protect him and i wasnt the person to try and help him because i have zero understanding of why anyone would do drugs. As for it being considered normal teenage behavior that was not my reality none of my friends kids were going that route or at least they didnt say so. Yesterday chris saw batman and there isnt a day in his life i dont support him but i dont want him to make decisions that could ruin his life . We talk everyday and i have never turned my back on him andi have the right not to support what i think is wrong but in the end he will decide what becomes of his life."
Well, you picked a great place to send him. A place filled with kids with alcohol and drug problems and very little supervision. Good choice lady. He probably learned more about drugs there than he would have had you left him where he was. From my experience, kids will "experiment" with drugs like marijuana or alcohol or cigarets. Doesn't mean they are hardened criminals that need to be put in some place like Whitmore. Most kids that have functional families will get pretty much back on the right track. It's the very, very FEW that follow that goody-two-shows path in their teens.
Reality check, Mary. You seem to live in a steril bubble.
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On 2005-06-16 16:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 15:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ginger i know its hard for you to understand but chris was so different as a child and will probably not like me posting this. He was what most people would call a computer geek writing programs at age 8, he went to a very spiritfilled church and didnt even have a girlfriend till he went away to prep school. he left a kid with short hair who went on all his church trips and was great friends with his pastor tj then i get this call from his prep school, i would have bet in a million years he would have never done drugs, there are no words for how shocked i was. In my day all of the information was pot was the gateway to the really hard stuff i have never tried drugs, smoked and i dont drink and i didnt in my teen years at christophers age i wanted to go on a missions trip in mexico and the only person i knew on drugs ruined his life totally. I wanted to protect chris so that he would be able to make his dreams come true and live a happy life. I was afraid that he would go down a path that could lead to death and i wanted to protect him and i wasnt the person to try and help him because i have zero understanding of why anyone would do drugs. As for it being considered normal teenage behavior that was not my reality none of my friends kids were going that route or at least they didnt say so. Yesterday chris saw batman and there isnt a day in his life i dont support him but i dont want him to make decisions that could ruin his life . We talk everyday and i have never turned my back on him andi have the right not to support what i think is wrong but in the end he will decide what becomes of his life."
Well, you picked a great place to send him. A place filled with kids with alcohol and drug problems and very little supervision. Good choice lady. He probably learned more about drugs there than he would have had you left him where he was. From my experience, kids will "experiment" with drugs like marijuana or alcohol or cigarets. Doesn't mean they are hardened criminals that need to be put in some place like Whitmore. Most kids that have functional families will get pretty much back on the right track. It's the very, very FEW that follow that goody-two-shows path in their teens.
Reality check, Mary. You seem to live in a steril bubble."
Yep, I totally agree Ginger.
What Mary (and many other parents) don't seem to understand is that putting their child in a "controlled environment" like Whitmore, WWASPS, CEDU, won't cure their child of adolescence. It will simply coerce them into "loving" the program as a means of survival and/or a condition of reclaiming their freedom and of course, their parent's love and respect.
Most teenagers can and do navigate safely through adolescence WITHOUT being locked up in a private, money-making institution.
That's a fact ... no matter what the ed cons, program referral agents or other parents tell you.
Just because you CAN afford to keep your child under lock and key doesn't make it right.
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yes he is a medical doctor and ivy ridge was where he was given advice to send him. Remember we checked it out rave reviews from so many ex students. They were probably paid actors because that place is dangerous and should be shut down.
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On 2005-06-16 16:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yes he is a medical doctor and ivy ridge was where he was given advice to send him. Remember we checked it out rave reviews from so many ex students. They were probably paid actors because that place is dangerous and should be shut down."
So how in the world did you get referred to Whitmore?
That's just ironic as heck!
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Mary, why should Ivy Ridge be shut down?
NOT one person at that school has been CHARGED with ANY CHILD ABUSE...not one person!
YOU KNOW nothing first hand about IVY RIDGE.
IF we parents are not allowed, IN YOUR OPINION,
you believe our children's self-reports of abuse at Whitmore, then just WHERE are you getting your information about IVY RIDGE? Why should anyone listen or believe ONE WORD you have in criticism of IVY RIDGE?
Cheryl Sudweeks HAS been CHARGED with child abuse, YET--you support Whitmore.
JUST where does your logic come from?
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a student that was at whitmore told me to get chris out of ivy ridge and send him there. I got chris out the same day.
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On 2005-06-16 17:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"a student that was at whitmore told me to get chris out of ivy ridge and send him there. I got chris out the same day."
Was this student that told you to get Chris out of Ivy Ridge also at Ivy Ridge? How did he/she end up at Whitmore?
WHY WHITMORE????? Of all the programs you could have chosen???
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NO paid actors at Whitmore giving rave reviews of how great Whitmore is????
You need a great big OLE Reality check woman!
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well my son was at ivy ridge and he lost a horrible amount of weight there were bruises on his back he had horrible rashes on his body from being forced to lie face down with his arms and feet up if he tried to get up he was hit in the back. He said the other things were to horrible to talk about. I saw him and took him to the dr to recover from there.
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i didnt have to go on my sons word he was in such bad shape i had to take him to a dr. The physical abuse was evident every where front and back and by the way he still states today he was never touched by the whitmore
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MY--Perhaps you should compare horror stories with Joey's father about Joey's abuse and his injuries when he saw his son right after Joey ran to the police after he was so severely abuse at the Whitmore. You and Joey's parents seem to have a lot in common. That is so sad. You and Joey's parents could comfort each other as you relive these horrible nightmares or your son's abuse--YOURS at Ivy Ridge....and Joey's at Whitmore.
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Mary, you should also get Chris to tell you his eye witness account of Joey's abuse at Lake Powell. Chris's account of it is just heart-breaking the way he recounts the details and the injuries Joey suffered. We were horrified by Chris's account of these abuses against this boy, and shocked that Chris said Cheryl Sudweeks instructed the kids to mistreat Joey in such an inhumane, criminal manner.
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On 2005-06-16 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i didnt have to go on my sons word he was in such bad shape i had to take him to a dr. The physical abuse was evident every where front and back and by the way he still states today he was never touched by the whitmore"
No doubt, the Whit is a different kind of program than WWASP. I keep trying to get you guys to read up on The Seed. I think it's quite similar. It's not so much of a rough and tumble, pepper spray and hog tying kind of abuse. It's more mental and emotional.
In that sort of environment, there are bound to be some over-the-top incidents of physical abuse. It's just part of the pack-dog mentality that goes along w/ an authoritarian group.
Just my opinion, of course. But I think it's worth considering.
so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
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On 2005-06-16 17:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mary, why should Ivy Ridge be shut down?
NOT one person at that school has been CHARGED with ANY CHILD ABUSE...not one person!
You are absolutely misinformed here. None have been convicted (that I know of). But there certainly are some serious charges against Pepper Spray Jay!Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die
-- Malachy McCourt
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Arrrggghhhh! You guys, you're missing the obvious here! You don't have to go imagining up paid actors. Just look in the damned mirror! The people you spoke to about AIR probably sound just like you do when speaking of the Whit. Blind faith, is all it takes. Far cheaper to farm a little of that than to pay scale to guild members.
You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!
Kady
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Why the fuckety fuck woudl you remove a kid from an abusive program to send him to another program..
thats pending charges for abuse, at that?
Heres a exciting idea, QUIT GIVING YOUR KIDS TO STRANGERS! Jesus christ. Oh, and considering they could punish him if he said something bad about the program, and didnt say ivy was bad when he was in it, what makes you think hes really all that safe at whitmore?
Why are you so set on giving your kid (and your money) to these asshats who run programs?Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
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On 2005-06-16 17:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i didnt have to go on my sons word he was in such bad shape i had to take him to a dr. The physical abuse was evident every where front and back and by the way he still states today he was never touched by the whitmore"
No doubt, the Whit is a different kind of program than WWASP. I keep trying to get you guys to read up on The Seed. I think it's quite similar. It's not so much of a rough and tumble, pepper spray and hog tying kind of abuse. It's more mental and emotional.
In that sort of environment, there are bound to be some over-the-top incidents of physical abuse. It's just part of the pack-dog mentality that goes along w/ an authoritarian group.
Just my opinion, of course. But I think it's worth considering.
so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
"
I have read quite a lot about The Seed and The Straights ... and yes, the newer "brands" of behavior mod programs (WWASPS, CEDU, Whitmore, ASR,etc) share a common theme: Group Mind/Thought Control.
What's incredible is the privatization of changing the behavior of America's youth has been going on for decades ... impacting the lives of a generation of youth.
What used to be called the anti-drug movement is now called the "emotional growth" movement.
It's basically the same crap wrapped in a different package.
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Pepper Spray Jay has been charged since he has been at Ivy Ridge?
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Not that I know of. But AIR is under investigation since the riot. And that hasn't been the first red flag there.
Trust me on this one. Given a choice between WWASP and the Whit, I'd take the Whit. I already know the mindfuck so I'd have a huge advantage. He that will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not, is a slave.
--William Drummond (1585-1640)
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On 2005-06-16 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
What used to be called the anti-drug movement is now called the "emotional growth" movement.
Exactly! It's an extremely maliable concept. Whatever parents are afraid of, you just sploodge a little TC style "therapy" on it and *poof* the problem dissapears like a stubborn stain when you spray it w/ Shout!
The Seed cropped up in Ft. Lauderdale in the Summer of Manson. What were parents afraid of them? Why, pot smoking, rock concert going, war protesting, long haired commie hippies. Art played to that.
What are parents afraid of now? Just take a moment to scan the tabloid headlines and unmute the tv whenever you see an Oprah or Dr. Phil ad. Why, in no time at all, you'll be fully qualified and prepared to write ad copy for the troubled parent industry.
It's such a damned simple formula; that along w/ the pyramid marketing model that's not quite, but almost the legal definition and the RTC, no school, no boot camp, no wilderness, no equine therapy... No, not therapy at all! Why, mr licensing man, anyone can plainly see that this is just your typical boarding school. No different from any other family.... I mean faculty, not family... that's just those silly overly entheusiastic kids talking.... Ya' know, they just love it so much here, that's why they sound like they're all on the verge of a mass nervous breakdown. Nothing funny going on here at all, nope! Not here! Look somewhere else!
One born every minute...Real criminals walk free every day to rape, rob, and murder again because the courts are so busy finding consensual criminals guilty of hurting no one but themselves.... To free cells for consensual criminals, real criminals are put on the street every day.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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I'm glad people are asking why parents choose to drop a problem child off with the nearest professional (fill in your own finger-quotes). But the self-righteous tone of some of these anonymous posters is pissing me off. Just like 007's asinine rant about cocktail-swilling socialites, your blanket assumptions are entirely off base and (just as entirely) unhelpful.
In the interest of full disclosure (an interest I wish more of you shared), I am Tha Truth's older sister. She was sent to the Whitmore when she was about fifteen; I have mixed feelings about my parents' decision then as now. But let me tell you who my parents are and who they are not. I understand that I can only speak for one actual case, but I feel that that has more value than an infinite number of speculations.
My parents have been married for twenty-nine years; they have six children. For those of you pining for the picket-fence days, we come pretty close to the Moral Majority's ideal family. Dad worked, Mom stayed home, we went to church. And, Antigen, we were home-schooled. Our parents were and are deeply thoughtful people who are not susceptible to fads (which, of course, psychologism has been judged to be for a couple decades now).
All the misty-eyed nostalgia and half-baked theories must take into account that human beings don't and haven't ever worked according to one philosophy, one equation, or one recipe. We are infinitely complex. Rich, poor, ignorant, educated, neglected, loved--none of these factors determines what a person becomes. Five of the children in my family did OK; one of us became determinedly destructive.
What do you do when, despite discipline, "toughing it," counseling, cajoling, and, finally, asking for professional help, your child persists in endangering herself and everyone around her? No one--grandparents, pastors, friends--knew what to do. She was mixing pills and alcohol and having sex with strangers in exchange for drugs. Our family was falling apart; we were being physically threatened; we were cruising the streets in the middle of the night trying to find her. I defy you to live with this and come up with a glib solution. It doesn't exist.
Raise six children on one small paycheck. Pay bills, fix cars, run errands, fight your self-doubt, try to please God, discipline, listen, consider, nurture, worry. My parents agonized over what to do with Anneliese. They sent her away because they didn't have anything left to try. There were no shrugs or deep sighs of relief. Do you understand despair?
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On 2005-06-16 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mary, you should also get Chris to tell you his eye witness account of Joey's abuse at Lake Powell. Chris's account of it is just heart-breaking the way he recounts the details and the injuries Joey suffered. We were horrified by Chris's account of these abuses against this boy, and shocked that Chris said Cheryl Sudweeks instructed the kids to mistreat Joey in such an inhumane, criminal manner."
Better yet mother MARY, why don't you come to court....If tweaker doesn't cop a plea.see for yourself....all the crap put on the ledge.....judge for yourself.....nudge judge ROY?.......AMF
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On 2005-06-16 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You and Joey's parents could comfort each other as you relive these horrible nightmares or your son's abuse--YOURS at Ivy Ridge....and Joey's at Whitmore."
WHAT?
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On 2005-06-16 18:45:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-06-16 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
What used to be called the anti-drug movement is now called the "emotional growth" movement.
Exactly! It's an extremely maliable concept. Whatever parents are afraid of, you just sploodge a little TC style "therapy" on it and *poof* the problem dissapears like a stubborn stain when you spray it w/ Shout!
The Seed cropped up in Ft. Lauderdale in the Summer of Manson. What were parents afraid of them? Why, pot smoking, rock concert going, war protesting, long haired commie hippies. Art played to that.
What are parents afraid of now? Just take a moment to scan the tabloid headlines and unmute the tv whenever you see an Oprah or Dr. Phil ad. Why, in no time at all, you'll be fully qualified and prepared to write ad copy for the troubled parent industry.
It's such a damned simple formula; that along w/ the pyramid marketing model that's not quite, but almost the legal definition and the RTC, no school, no boot camp, no wilderness, no equine therapy... No, not therapy at all! Why, mr licensing man, anyone can plainly see that this is just your typical boarding school. No different from any other family.... I mean faculty, not family... that's just those silly overly entheusiastic kids talking.... Ya' know, they just love it so much here, that's why they sound like they're all on the verge of a mass nervous breakdown. Nothing funny going on here at all, nope! Not here! Look somewhere else!
One born every minute...Real criminals walk free every day to rape, rob, and murder again because the courts are so busy finding consensual criminals guilty of hurting no one but themselves.... To free cells for consensual criminals, real criminals are put on the street every day.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;"
Yep, along with drugging their 6 year olds into compliance with the expectations and demands of their teachers, parents can send their teens to a "specialty boarding school" to forcibly raise their emotional IQ.
Adolescence: No longer a rite of passage but a social disease.
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Kathopper, I understand your anger here. But try and put yourself in the shoes of someone who had NO idea anything like this industry existed, or even could exist, in this age and place. It's practically incomprehensible that anybody could fall for this. But then, consider all the people who get jacked by rediculously stupid investment frauds and are just too mortified to even tell their friends and family.
It's amazing what people will fall for, including inteligent, reasonable people of character, when they're desperate.
Finally, what would I do? I guess if I didn't know better, I might have sent my daughter off for her own good and the good of the family. The only reason I didn't is that I DO know better because I lived it. These people are just selling promises they can't possibly keep. It's little different from the Earnest Angley slapping people on the forehead and pleading for $2 million to get him into heaven.
I understand the desperation, and I understand why people fall for it. And there is no glib answer that I can offer as an alternative. What did we do? We stole moments w/ our daughter when we could, tried to dodge the psycho boyfriend, didn't let him bait us into war w/ our daughter. We toughed it out, that's all, just like parents used to do before Chuck Dederich ever devised this grand scheme and sold it to NIDA as the panacea against the youth movement of the late `60's.
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
--Denis Diderot, French encyclopedist
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I will go to court if someone lets me know when and please dont print that chris said those things about lake powell because that is not what he said to me, I dont want someone believing that when you wont even say your name and there is no proof you ever have talked to my son. He told me lake powell was great and it changed him for the better. Thats what i was told by him. chris if you are reading this please conform but i hope you are staying off and moving on love.
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sorru chris i ment to say please confirm what you told me about lake powell. You know i cant type!! Iwill go see batman this weekend since yo thought it was great!!
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This is how this woman communicates with her son, on fornits? God, I think if this woman was my mother, I'd take up POT SMOKING!
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how are you going to tell a mother (talking about her own son here) that that is the way she communicates with her son. Believe me, they talk on the phone all the time too. You are telling "us" that she talks to her son through here...you have no clue..you are NOT the kid's mother! You know what is being said online, and that is all. The same goes for everyone else, you people might know what is being said online, but further than that, must of you are basing your assumptions on posts. Anyways, man..get a life! if I sat on this DAMN thing all day making replies to every little thign..such as you, remarking on the relationship that you think Mary and her son have, then id probably be SMOKING POT TOO! Ive seen first hand the relationship that Mary and Chris carry, and it is more than you could EVER wish to have! Peace
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Kathopper you sound so smart and loving, i am sur you are a great example for your sister. Just love her no matter what and eventually she will return to those values she was raised with the ones you clearly have. I know your mom is proud because your post touched my heart and i am a mom. It put a smile on my face to know that you are someones friend, special sister, and one day a mother your self!!!! Love those around you dear one! whoever you are. mary gentile
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Kat, next thing you know MOTHER MARY will be inviting you to her house TOO. LOL
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What a lovely idea of course kat i would invite you anytime. mary
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MAMA MARY, I have never heard anyone ooz so much B>S> in my life. Do you really think anyone believes you are for real. You really sound very sinkening.
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I feel sorry for you gmom. What makes one think caring about other people is BS, I can only imagine that you have been hurt very deeply in your life by someone close to you. If you really care whether i am for real or not come and judge for your self you are welcome to call or visit anytime. I dont take peoples opinions on this site personally, I understand they are driven by fear, hurt, and a host of other things. The only thing i take personally is if someone directly hurts myself or my family by lying or using them in a way that could hurt others. mary
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Mary, there is no reason to feel sorry for me. You really don't know me. Your arm-chair diagnosis is really not required. I believe, if you really care for people, as you just stated, you would be able to see that there are others on the site that also care about people -- and their families just as you do. The only difference is, they don't feel the necessity to convince anyone else of that fact.
There are kids that were abused in many ways at the Whitmore, either by Cheryl or with her knowlede and approval. You don't seem to give any validity at all to their feelings and their hurt and pain. I don't see you even give that to your own son. Do you really think the State of Utah, Juab County Attorney just decided, well, gee, a bunch of kids are complaining, I'll just file a few charges? Do some research and find out what kind of evidence is necessary for those kinds of charges to be filed. These are not just a few disqruntled people. How can you say these things never happened? You were not there.
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SO HOW IS ANNELIESE? IS THAT MOUSE?
Posted: 2005-01-27 17:56:00
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I recently posted a part of my story about the Whitmore. I was just reading some of the past articles about the Whitmore and I cam across one about abuse. While I was at the Whitmore I had kissed one of the boys there and we had a marathon group about it. The group started at about 6:30 at night and did't end until about 3:00 in the morning. The next day we were made to get up on schedule at 5:00. Anyways, after the group one of the girls Anneliese came up to me upstairs where I was in the closet room (where I was made to sleep for a week) and she said she wanted to talk to me. One of the things she started out with was "Cheryl told me to come up here and teach you a lesson, and she also gave me permission to do whatever the hell I wanted to do to you because you and just a little slut and a whore, you are worthless and thats why you do things with boys" after she was finished talking she got real close to my face and spit in it, after that she slapped me on the cheek a couple of times adn then she punched me in the stomache. There was nothing I could do because no body else was around and this girl was about 150lbs or more than me. I was so scared and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
The next time I got in trouble we had gone to Lake Powell and while we were there I stole pills from one of the boys there, they were prescription pills that Mark and Cheryl knew about that he had in his backpack, anyway me and two fo the other girls took them together. When we got caught Cheryl brought us into a room and yelled at me, but the other two girls she said that she felt sorry for so she was hugging them and telling them that she understood. Then she made them leave the room. When they left she started cussing at me and then threw a stack of huge books at me. Then she came up to me and spit on me and pulled my hair and practically threw me over a chair. Again there was nothing I could do.
There was also another incident with the boys, there was a boy named Tony in the program when I had forst gotten there, he got in trouble for something and some of the boys that were mad at him asked Cheryl if the could beat him up, and she said "what i dont know anything about it if anyone asks" so they took the boy out on the side of the mansion where they park the cars and they (dusty, rob, aaron, cory, brian, and a few of other boys just started kicking him and punching him and they got him on the ground and they hit his head on one of the cars and they were hurting him really bad. He couldnt do anything.
Cheryl doesn't care about anything but herself. I think she takes drugs that don't belong to her. In june of 2004 i fell off of my horse and i broke my ribs and sprained my ribs and i had a few pretty big bumps on my head, i got three bottles of pills, lorotabs, ibproufin 800, and perkasets. they are pain killers, well i didnt take very many of them because my mom said that they werent good for me and plus they made me sick so there were a lot left in the bottles. I went home in july and i moved back to Utah to live on my own in the beginning of August, i went back to the Whitmore to get the pills so I could send them to my mom and there was one lorotab left and about 3 ibproufins, and i wondered where did the rest of my pills go? I had asked Cheryl and she said she didnt know. How is this a good place to send your child when they are missing pills? Mark and Cheryl always leave their downstairs bedroom door open and unlocked, its not hard to go down there and get whatever you want, trust me, i know.
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On 2005-06-17 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I feel sorry for you gmom. What makes one think caring about other people is BS, I can only imagine that you have been hurt very deeply in your life by someone close to you. If you really care whether i am for real or not come and judge for your self you are welcome to call or visit anytime. I dont take peoples opinions on this site personally, I understand they are driven by fear, hurt, and a host of other things. The only thing i take personally is if someone directly hurts myself or my family by lying or using them in a way that could hurt others. mary"
Save your tears,"Mary". For yourself when you finally wake up and figure out you put all your faith and trust in a herd of SHEEP IN WOLVES CLOTHING. The state of Utah would not level charges against someone if they did not believe the children and the parents who witnessed and reported the abuse.
Take off the blinders, please, and ask yourself ... WHAT AM I NOT SEEING?????
Thank you.
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gmom clearly you dont read my post i never speak for anyone else i say that nothing ever happened to my son and that is what he maintains till this day. mary
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gmom clearly you dont read my post i never speak for anyone else i say that nothing ever happened to my son and that is what he maintains till this day. mary
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by the way gmom please dont speak on what i give my son you have no idea of our relationship. mary
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On 2005-06-17 18:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"gmom clearly you dont read my post i never speak for anyone else i say that nothing ever happened to my son and that is what he maintains till this day. mary"
Nothing that he has chosen to tell you maybe. I remember a post here not too long ago from him to you pleading with you to believe what he has been telling you for the past year about the Sudweeks. One thing I remember he said was that they are not what they appear to be. He has also told other adults of things that he observed happening to other children at the Whitmore. He also has said that you would cut off any financial support ,if he did not come on Fornit's and apologize to Cheryl or about what he had previously said about Cheryl.
Why is it, do you think, that he had a hand in helping four kids leave Whitmore? Do you suppose it's because it's such a wonderful place? Come on. Don't you even question a little bit?
Because if you don't, you have got your head in the sand or you are getting something in return for your support. Are you by any chance a friend or affilated with Sue Scheff?
And why don't you address the facts that I posted to you about the kids that did get abused. You seem to just step right over that issue.
You know, the issue is not you or me or any other person who did not walk the walk. The issue is that kids were abused, assaulted, humilated.
When you come on here and say how wonderful the Sudweeks are, you degrade every kid that was at the Sudweeks mercy. Everytime you support Sue Scheff, you are as guilty as she is in sending kids to a place where they will be abused. What kind of person does that.
We were also lied to, as well as many other people. If the Sudweeks are doing "God's Work," then I'd rather be on the side of the devil.
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Mary, I would really like to understand where you are coming from, and I do not mean that to be derogitory or accusistory.
I do not believe for a moment that all supporters are evil or stupid and hope that you can also acknowledge that not all of us who question the Sudweeks' practices are evil or stupid. If we can agree to that end, perhaps some meaningful conversation can happen that will help all concerned.
The families who are angry because their children have stated that they were mistreated. Can you not understand their anger? of course you can, you believe that Chris was harmed at Ivy Ridge and that must be a source of pain for you. Some of your posts have elluded to this.
Are you aware that there are parents and kids who went to or are going to Ivy Ridge who say that those who "claim" abuse are liars and complainers? What do you say to them? How is this any different Mary? Why is it so hard for you to simply consider the possability that these kids from Whitmore who are speaking out ARE telling the truth? Put yourself in the shoes that you yourself have worn!
Mary, I do understand this must be difficult for you, as difficult for me to think anything these people do is good. However, I do think they possibly did help some kids, I just think they have gone too far and I question their tactics. The ends do not justify the means. Is one life more important than another? Just because Chris may have been helped does that make it OK that someone else was harmed?
As a parent, I understand the decision to send your child into treatment must have been heart wrenching for you and of course you are grateful he has returned to you. That does not mean you owe them to turn a blind eye to everything else that goes on there. They were paid very well to help your son, you paid your debt to them quite literally in cash.
I also imagine how difficult it might be to consider that you were wrong about your choice of schools a second time. One day I hope you will know that you did the best you could at the time, and you were not the only one who was fooled.
I wish you well, from where I stand I think you may have a few difficult monthes ahead of you and I only pray that you and Chris continue to heal and develop your relationship to its fullest.
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Gmom will probably not get an answer to any of her questions directed to mary gentile. Perhaps some ramblings, but no answers.
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well i wish i knew who you were because i am impressed that you feel as i do that it is so destructive to be hostile to anyone on here that just wants the best for their child and will be happy to answer your questions. Well to the the question about the parents at ivy ridge all I say is i am glad that it didnt happen to their child but the reason i know for sure it happened to my child was that he had bruises and rashes in places that were clearly fron hours of face down torture. This was documented by a doctor. Also the day i got him out one of the workers admited that bad things were happening to him because he fought them till the end. Doesnt make it right. Also some of the things were so bad that they have not been posted to protect my sons privacy and you could not imagine it if you tried it is so unspeakable and there is more i dont knoww but remember my son had to have medical care. As for your question about whitmore there are kids that were in the same roomthat say the opposite of what other kids in the room said. They conflict each other. I am still in touch with many kids that are not there and the disagree with accounts i have heard on the web. So i am not god it is not my place to believe one child over another, i do however believe my son, that he was never mistreated there. However look at what happened when i got on here to clarify the truth about things that were printed about me. First they tried to question my education and called me al kinds of names when it could not be discredited, then they called me a mother whose kids are a burden to society and should not be allowed to reproduce, and they have said i should burn in hell. So unfortunately its hard to believe or consider any thing as truth when the very people that are telling the events are out right lying about me someone they dont know. Having said that I do appreciate your position and the rational way that you presented it and i thank you for your well wishes with my son and i and i sincerely wish you the same with your child.
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gmom i will be happy to answer you i have never met sue scheff and she did not send my son to whitmore so i have no idea where that is coming from. as for my son he did not help 4 kids leave whitmore alex was his girlfriend and wanted to go home that was her idea not chris's and she will probably tell you that if you ask her. Also my son wasnt even in utah when the 3 boys left and joyce harris bought their plane tickets but this is already known but i dont want to speak concerning those boys out of respect for their parents it is not my place. mary
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On 2005-06-17 16:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"SO WHO IS ANNELIESE? IS SHE THE "MOUSE?"
Posted: 2005-01-27 17:56:00
I recently posted a part of my story about the Whitmore. I was just reading some of the past articles about the Whitmore and I cam across one about abuse. While I was at the Whitmore I had kissed one of the boys there and we had a marathon group about it. The group started at about 6:30 at night and did't end until about 3:00 in the morning. The next day we were made to get up on schedule at 5:00. Anyways, after the group one of the girls Anneliese came up to me upstairs where I was in the closet room (where I was made to sleep for a week) and she said she wanted to talk to me. One of the things she started out with was "Cheryl told me to come up here and teach you a lesson, and she also gave me permission to do whatever the hell I wanted to do to you because you and just a little slut and a whore, you are worthless and thats why you do things with boys" after she was finished talking she got real close to my face and spit in it, after that she slapped me on the cheek a couple of times adn then she punched me in the stomache. There was nothing I could do because no body else was around and this girl was about 150lbs or more than me. I was so scared and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
The next time I got in trouble we had gone to Lake Powell and while we were there I stole pills from one of the boys there, they were prescription pills that Mark and Cheryl knew about that he had in his backpack, anyway me and two fo the other girls took them together. When we got caught Cheryl brought us into a room and yelled at me, but the other two girls she said that she felt sorry for so she was hugging them and telling them that she understood. Then she made them leave the room. When they left she started cussing at me and then threw a stack of huge books at me. Then she came up to me and spit on me and pulled my hair and practically threw me over a chair. Again there was nothing I could do.
There was also another incident with the boys, there was a boy named Tony in the program when I had forst gotten there, he got in trouble for something and some of the boys that were mad at him asked Cheryl if the could beat him up, and she said "what i dont know anything about it if anyone asks" so they took the boy out on the side of the mansion where they park the cars and they (dusty, rob, aaron, cory, brian, and a few of other boys just started kicking him and punching him and they got him on the ground and they hit his head on one of the cars and they were hurting him really bad. He couldnt do anything.
Cheryl doesn't care about anything but herself. I think she takes drugs that don't belong to her. In june of 2004 i fell off of my horse and i broke my ribs and sprained my ribs and i had a few pretty big bumps on my head, i got three bottles of pills, lorotabs, ibproufin 800, and perkasets. they are pain killers, well i didnt take very many of them because my mom said that they werent good for me and plus they made me sick so there were a lot left in the bottles. I went home in july and i moved back to Utah to live on my own in the beginning of August, i went back to the Whitmore to get the pills so I could send them to my mom and there was one lorotab left and about 3 ibproufins, and i wondered where did the rest of my pills go? I had asked Cheryl and she said she didnt know. How is this a good place to send your child when they are missing pills? Mark and Cheryl always leave their downstairs bedroom door open and unlocked, its not hard to go down there and get whatever you want, trust me, i know.
"
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Do you mean you have no communication at all with Sue Scheff???
And I do believe you are mistaken about the three boys that left Whitmore. Your son did not help them leave Whitmore, but he did help facilitate their departure from Utah. And he also did help Alex out of Utah. She didn't just say to Cheryl, I think I want to go home now, I'm leaving.
You know, I really don't know why you are so blinded by what is really happening to these kids -- granted, maybe not all, but it is happening to some. Is that okay with you? Why would you turn your head away from it happening to even one child???
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actually chris is not super human alex has a mom and dad who decide whether or not she has permission to leave utah and they paid for her ticket and no chris dod no get those boys a ticket, joyce harris did. Please get your facts straight and by the way he thinks the world of alex's mom and would never want her to worry about alex one day.
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By the way make no mistake i do agree with you that no child should be abused!!!!!!!!
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My facts are straight. Joyce Harris doesn't even know those boys. Who do you think made her aware of the situation? How do you think she found out the boys' names? If Alexes parents okayed her to come home, which, by the way, I'm sure they did, why did she leave in the middle of the night and meet up with Chris? What was everyone afraid of? It is you who do not have the facts straight.
Again, do you have communication with Sue Scheff? I am going to assume that by you not answering my question that you do have communication with her.
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Anneliese is NOT the MOUSE.
The MOUSE is Caitlyn Loggins who is a student at the Whitmore Academy.
Anneliese is a former student who is at home now.
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Then why do you condone and support people who abuse children? Joey's case was documented by the police and the child protective services. I really don't think that every government agency, on every level, in Utah have it in for the Sudweeks. Get a grip, Mary, that doesn't even make sense.
And do you also believe the authorities in Canada and Mexico are out to get them? Are the Sudweeks so important that all Governments are going after them? Or do they just get caught not obeying the laws where ever they go? Open you eyes. I can't believe you are being so naive. You are an education woman, by your own words. These people break the law, do not follow rules. Do you condone that type of behavior?
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mother MARY and moron may be synonymous
in many ways.....................
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well since its clearly joyce i am speaking to lets not forget that i called you one time you were home and told your husband you would not talk to me! Wonder why all I wanted was to see the boys with their parents clearly we did not have the same goal and as for sue again i dont know her and i have spoke to her when i found out she won a lawsuit against wasp no conspiracy so dont try to make one, to be honest i dont even know what the deal is with anyones issue with her it was my son who told me about her and wasp when he got out he wanted to see them all shut down and i told him to leave it behind and only focus on the positive in his life. I have absolutely no idea how any of the parents are connected with her and its not my business.
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Thank you Mary for your reply. I think I understand a little more about why you feel the way you do.
You said in your posting that you would reply to Ivy Ridge parents that believed nothing happened with "I am glad it didnt happen to your child". Well, I am going to say that to you now. I am glad it didn't happen to Chris.
As to the contradictions, I can understand why that would be confusing but think about it for a moment.
If you read up on cult conditioning and mind control it is not so confusing. I believe you said you were a Christian correct? In your discussions with other members of your church, have you not discussed the dangers of cults and how good people can fall victim to the cult's methods? It is real, you know it is but some cults use the same God to justify their methods and its a little harder to see!
This is what I am asking you to consider as to one of the reasons why there might be the contradictions. The kids I believe are still under the control of the Sudweeks cannot speak out at this time either out of fear or a misguided belief in "the family" that must be upheld because letting it down would cause the family harm and themselves great emotional pain. It IS painful when you wake up.
The Sudweeks never laid a finger on me when I knew them. That does not mean they did not harm me. They did and they knew what they were doing when they did it. It was real and it cost me years of trouble with trust, self esteem and emotional growth.
I finally had the strength to break free of the effects but part of me is still that young woman who didn't understand. As I grew up and realised what had REALLY happened and not what I was conditioned to think happened, I had to speak out because I didnt want any other kid to have to spend years trying to figure it out like I did.
I often say I wish they HAD beaten me because at least then I would have had the bruises which would have left no doubt as to what had happened. Just like Chris. He had bruises. There was no doubt. I on the other hand only have some memories of words and actions that only I witnessed. No one to help me to sort it out but myself and no bruises to make it clear as to what had happened.
Anyhow, That is a little food for thought for you.
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This is not Joyce.
Do you mean to tell me you have no communication with Sue Scheff AT ALL?
The problem with Sue, is that she is still referring kids to Whitmore. What professional person refers children to any facility where the owner has been charged with abusing children. Does it not occur to her she may be placing these children in jeopardy? Once a person has been charged, there is reason to believe there is some truth to the charges. We have courts of law to prove or disprove those charges. But, until that is done, do you take a chance with the wellbeing of children? I don't think so. That says to me that Sue Scheff cares more about her finders fee.
Joyce Harris provided those boys with means to get to a safe place. They were to call their parents immediately and tell them where they were and why. If they were not believed, they were to call Mr. Godfrey. He would see they were placed in protective custody. They chose to do otherwise. They accompanied your soon to Tennessee. End of story. Check with Mr. Godfrey.
How do you think he knew about the boys? When they did not follow through, Joyce notified the authorities of where they were. Period!!
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I wish i knew how to send you a private email, i am not good with computers but am learning as i go. I havent studied about cults at all i am really careful not to expose my self to the negative. My faith in god is undescribable, it is unwaivering. I believe god is only about good and love so i cant see how anyone can believe a cult or anyone else. i am glad that you have got past whatever your hurt was and i hope you have a good relationship with your parents and i hope you have faith too. Faith can heal everything. Gods word is so powerful in my heart i wish i could share it with you but i try to be careful of offending non believers because they have just as much right to there beliefs as i do mine. love america!!! mary
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gmom there is more to that story than you know its getting a little clearer why you are angry since tha was what you were told. The truth will eventually come out but i have to respect those boys parents privacy. I do however understand loyalty to a friend and its clear joyce is your friend so good for you that you stick by her thats admirable but some of the things you printed about her intentions arent true but it is not my place to clarify, hope you understand.
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Mary ... GOD IS WATCHING! And he is angry with these program that abuse children in His name.
The DEVIL is cunning ... dresses real nice, too.
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Mary, I think I get it now, your last few posts have said it all. Have a nice life but remember how Jesus felt about children and see if you can continue turning your back.
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Jesus doesn't steal children's innocence and their souls. Jesus is not for sale. Jesus does not command children to beat up other children or program owners to spit in a child's face. Jesus does not hurt children in the name of TOUGHLOVE. Jesus is LOVE.
Remember that, Mary, next time you make excuses for the Sudweeks and The Whitmore.
May God have mercy on you, Mary, and anyone else who supports evil doers.
:flame:
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If Mary sees the light, she will become the enemy to the Whitmore cult parents, teens and PURE so maybe that's what she is afraid of and why she continues to make excuses? She may even be afraid that Chris did something wrong and is trying to protect him by shifting the blame to others?
If so, Mary .... FEAR NOT!
The truth shall set you free.
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shame on you to turn ones words i said god is all about love and have never used it in relation to whitmore only in reference to my own personal beliefs. I believe that mark and cheryl are mormon and i dont know one thing about their faith so if you are going to lie at least leave jesus out of it.
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I think you need to re read my post i believe i said i know nothing about cults and cant understand how anyone can fall for them if what they represent is evil because those that understand god know he is all about love. I fear nothing as there are no skeletons in my closet.
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what exactly am i turning my back on??
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On 2005-06-18 11:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"gmom there is more to that story than you know its getting a little clearer why you are angry since tha was what you were told. The truth will eventually come out but i have to respect those boys parents privacy. I do however understand loyalty to a friend and its clear joyce is your friend so good for you that you stick by her thats admirable but some of the things you printed about her intentions arent true but it is not my place to clarify, hope you understand."
This has nothing to do with parents' privacy. I think, it is you who does not know the whole story. Do you know Joyce personally? How would you know her intentions? This also has nothing to do with friendship or loyality. This has to do with kids getting abused at Whitmore. These kids that have come forward are not fabricating stories. And I'll give you a little clue about Mrs. Sudweeks. She called my granddaughter and threatened her about saying anything that goes on at the Whitmore. I talked to my granddaughter immediately after it happened.
Listen to your son. Or better yet, ask him about kids who were spit at among other things.
Those things did happen. I have talked to KIDS who have varified that these abusive things happened and they participated.
Am I angry??? No. Am I determined? Yes. Am I concerned for other kids who might be sent to Whitmore? Yes. Am I sorry for the kids who have left and are not believed by their parents? Yes.
Imagine, if you were one of the kids that was sent to Whitmore. Imagine having the things that have been discussed here happen to you. Then, imagine if your own mother, the person who is supposed to protect you and help you, turns a deaf year and supports your abusers.
How scared and alone and betrayed do you think that kid feels? Especially, at the very time in their life they need your support, when they are growing into a young adult, which is hard enough.
I think, from what Chris has said about you financially cutting him off, that is the little ring you have through his nose. You said yourself, when he got out of Whitmore, he wanted to close down all places like that. There was a reason -- a good reason, and he has told that reason to others. I believe, he tells you what you want to hear -- it's survival for him.
When you have come on here, in support of the Sudweeks or Sue Scheff, it's condoning the abuse some of these kids experienced, without even knowing what the evidence is. It seems to me, it would be best to say nothing, as you, obviously, know nothing.
[ This Message was edited by: Gmom on 2005-06-18 15:18 ]
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On 2005-06-18 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"shame on you to turn ones words i said god is all about love and have never used it in relation to whitmore only in reference to my own personal beliefs. I believe that mark and cheryl are mormon and i dont know one thing about their faith so if you are going to lie at least leave jesus out of it."
Personally, I have friends who are Mormon. This isn't about Mormonism, although I don't think it's a coincidence that Utah is the home of abusive programs. The Saints have a history of covering for each other and/or looking the other way. It's only been recently that the Utah authorities have started cracking down on practicing polygamists ... and as it turns out, the teen help industry.
Point is Mary ... anyone who abuses children is evil ... wake up and smell the coffee, will ya?
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On 2005-06-18 13:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think you need to re read my post i believe i said i know nothing about cults and cant understand how anyone can fall for them if what they represent is evil because those that understand god know he is all about love. I fear nothing as there are no skeletons in my closet."
Mary, this is probably a waste of keystrokes, but... people fall for cults for one simple reason; they don't know anything about cults and so they don't recognize one when they see it.
Read up on cults and maybe the light will go off.
Marijuana clearly has medicinal value.
Thousands of seriously ill Americans have
been able to determine that for themselves,
albeit illegally. Like my own family, these
individuals did not wish to break the law but
they had no choice.
--Lyn Nofziger, former deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee
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gmom you dont know what you are talking about who do you think paid for his 500 dollar phone bill to talk to joyce harris and lets see that apt and food. stop lying
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I'm not lying, just repeating your son's words. I also thought you said your son didn't call Joyce Harris, that he called her. Let's get it straight.
Besides all that, what about the betrayal he is feeling from his own mother???? If you don't think that is there, then you are not thinking. Put yourself in the same place he is in.
I personally saw two boys humilitated by making them work in the 100+ weather in girl's clothes for two days. Do you think that is okay? To humiliate young teenage boys to punish them for their behavior?
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I'm not lying, just repeating your son's words. I also thought you said your son didn't call Joyce Harris, that he called her. Let's get it straight.
Besides all that, what about the betrayal he is feeling from his own mother???? If you don't think that is there, then you are not thinking. Put yourself in the same place he is in.
I personally saw two boys humilitated by making them work in the 100+ weather in girl's clothes for two days. Do you think that is okay? To humiliate young teenage boys to punish them for their behavior? While, by the way, Cheryl is in her swimsuit taking a little dip in the pool?
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I'm not lying, just repeating your son's words. I also thought you said your son didn't call Joyce Harris, that she called him. Let's get it straight.
Besides all that, what about the betrayal he is feeling from his own mother???? If you don't think that is there, then you are not thinking. Put yourself in the same place he is in. If you don't think that boy feels more than a little fear, you are sadly mistaken. Take a real good look. When he told you the Sudweeks weren't what they seemed to be, you should have found out his reason for telling you that.
No one can "go on," very well, if they have conflict with the past and unresolved issues. What an unfair thing to ask of him. Do you always sweep unpleasant issues under the rug instead of dealing with them? Sounds like it to me.
But, again, the real issue here is the abuse caused by the Sudweeks or at their direction. You obviously, don't know what the evidence is. So how is it you sit there and defend someone, when you haven't heard the other side. You either have your head in the sand or you are getting some sort of "reward" for the favor.
I personally saw two boys humilitated by making them work in the 100+ weather, in girl's clothes, for two days. Do you think that is okay? To humiliate young teenage boys to punish them for their misbehavior? While, by the way, Cheryl is in her swimsuit taking a little dip in the pool?
I call it cruel and inexcusable.
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Hello im not god and i wasnt there!! It is not my place to judge anything.
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On 2005-06-18 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello im not god and i wasnt there!! It is not my place to judge anything."
COP OUT .... pass the buck .... or should I say, koolaid?
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I was there, and I am telling you what I saw. I am asking you, DO YOU THINK THAT THE THINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU ARE OKAY? I didn't ask you to judge anyone, I asked your opinion.
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On 2005-06-18 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello im not god and i wasnt there!! It is not my place to judge anything."
Do you have an opinion? I am not asking you to judge anyone. That is exactly what I am asking you not to do. I am asking you to listen to ALL the evidence before you support anyone or judge anyone. I am asking you what your opinion is of the things I have described to you as happening.
Surely you know right from wrong. You must be able to judge that. That's why God gave you a brain, to think with.
I am telling you I was there. I saw the things I told you about. I didn't like it at the time and I don't like it now. I was very happy my granddaughter was leaving. I also saw starving kittens, and horses with their bones sticking out.
I heard Cheryl telling my granddaughter that her place was there, at the Whitmore. She wanted her
to drop two of the classes she had signed up to take at UVSC, so she could come to the Whitmore a few days a week. Which, by the way, at that point, was none of her business. I can go on and on. It makes me sick to my stomach.
If you don't want to listen to the truth; if you want to close your eyes to what really goes on, then I suggest you don't come here, because it makes you look extremely DUMB!!!!
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Mary--just why do you think your son calls Joyce Harris so often?---and if you have paid a $500 of calls to her made by your son---that's a lot of talking!!!! And when Chris took it upon himself to help these boys run away from Whitmmore, that he has told SEVERAL PEOPLE, other than Joyce Harris, about thier abuse....why do you think he called Joyce Harris, and not you, his mother for help? And why are you calling Joyce Harris yourself, Mary IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AT THAT....who elected you spokesperson for the Whitmore?
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On 2005-06-18 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello im not god and i wasnt there!! It is not my place to judge anything."
But you do judge Mary. Every time you deny what happened to these kids as simply not possible because of what you know of the sudweeks. You are standing in judgement. What would you call it?
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Leah's grandmother,
I am not taking sides here, but I know what horses you saw when you came to visit because I remember when you came. Well, I am just stating about the horses, but there was one horse whose bones were sticking way out, and that was because he had some type of cancer and shortly after, he had to be euthanized. Then there was Teza, but you know the situation with her.
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And just what are you implying, "the situation with Teza?" When some snide littel remark is made...like this, it is usually made in the wee hours of the morning, like this 3AM posting. And don't we all know who is usually up tweaking at this time of the morning???? Hello, CHERYL!
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And just WHY IS IT THAT HORSES are always DYING around the SUDWEEKS...WHY?
THE SUDWEEKS should be banned from owning any type of animals period.
Seems like the SPCA in the United States needs to learn a valuable lesson from CANDA....KEEP these people away from animals of all kinds!!!
The Sudweeks do not show responsiblity for these helpless creatures.
Sure hope the legal system continues to show the certainly should not be taking care of chilren-- not for hire, and hopefully not for that little boy who lives in that mess at Whitmore!
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Maybe Whitmore is killing two birds with one stone and cheryl is the FIRE WATCH PERSON!!!!!---hope people do remember SOMEONE has to keep watch over the Whitmore from 7PM until 7AM to make sure that place doesn't burn down around those kids until the Suds bring that place UP TO CODE to satisfy the State Fire Marshall.
I'D sure hate to be trusting a person charged with child abuse to be in charge of keeping my child safe there in a place that doesn't even meet the basic standards of safety.
Don't these parents care at all?
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no..it is not Cheryl..I made that post..Sarah. About teza...you know that she was skinny despite efforts to feed her. She was even fed more. I dont know though..whatever..you guys have her....now its like beating a dead horse..old story. I think the horses are taken care of just fine. Casie's horses died because it collicked..(or however you spell it). That is the only horse that has died since I was there aside from the one with Cancer.
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To ad to my last post, I dont appreciate you saying that I made a "snide" comment because in no means was I trying to be snooty..or make a "snide" remark. I am sorry if it came off like that. I believe a level of maturity should be held here because I am not "attacking" you in my posts, and I am like 50 years younger than you. Please just take what I am saying not as "snide."
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Hi Sarah;
Just so you know, I am not being rude, I respect your right to your opinion. I am just curious as to what your knowledge is of the situation with the horses in Canada?
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On 2005-06-19 16:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"no..it is not Cheryl..I made that post..Sarah. About teza...you know that she was skinny despite efforts to feed her. She was even fed more. I dont know though..whatever..you guys have her....now its like beating a dead horse..old story. I think the horses are taken care of just fine. Casie's horses died because it collicked..(or however you spell it). That is the only horse that has died since I was there aside from the one with Cancer. "
Sarah, I really don't think that Teza was fed well. A month after she was moved she had lots more weight on her, no bones sticking out. No one made any effort to find out why she was so under weight. It seems that animals are given very little care. Casie's horse should not have been left when it was collicking. If they are not walked and kept on their feet, they die. It is a case of neglect.
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Well I am sorry..I was wrong about Teza then. I know what has to be done when a horse collicks. However dont you understand though, when this does happen, someone may not always be around. We were all at Lake Powell when this happened, and Jeff and Trin were taking care of the horses. As soon as they saw signs of it, the horse laying down, away from the herd, biting at its side, rolling..(i dont know which her horse did, but there were signs)..they walked the horse out..like you are supposed to, and then took it to the vet. After seeing the vet, they were bringing it home when it died in the trailor. Maybe Teza wasnt being fed well..for a senior horse (I know at the barn where I live and keep my horse..the senior horses have senior feed because they tend to get skinny) but I do know that it was no one's fault that Casie's horse died. Also, if the horse never belonged to the Sudweeks, then why are you complaining about it being skinny. Technically, since the horse was Leahs, and she wasnt paying board for it, it was her responsibility to see to it that the horse was fed properly and had the right type of feed.
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Well, Teza was being used in the so-called Equine Therapy, in exchange for being fed and taken care of. But, like you said, that's an old story, and Teza is doing well now, and she looks much better.
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as far as the situation with the horses in Canada, they were under a caretaker, and the judge said that since he was young and all, or something (he was not a minor though and knew what needed to be done) that he was going to charge Mark. The horse that you see in the pictures..the foal..it had a disease. I forgot what it is called, but it had something to do with its legs. They were going to put the horse down before it it got older (as it was only a few days old) but Cheryl didnt want them to put the little thing down. Even though it wouldnt be able to be ridden, she wanted to raise it. It was not abused though. (In other words, it would have been better if that baby had been put to sleep so all this trouble wouldnt have been started) As with the horses that were seized, some of them were given back because they said there was nothing wrong with them. There really wasnt, and anyone who knows them, knows that the horses were just fine. It is really a sad story because the horses were taken care of up there. Cheryl used to tell me all the time that if I want a good horse, I should go and find one of their old ones and buy it.
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well I am glad to hear she is doing better. She was loved though, and when she was taken, the girl who was riding her..balled her eyes out.
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The Sudweeks were able to get some of the horses back?
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yea..i think 7. I rode one of them when I was in the program. Good horses.
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there were two different groups that seized them I think. The SPCA, and some other animal place. One of the groups gave back all the horses that they had taken because they said nothing was wrong with them, and they were in perfectly fine condition.
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You need to read the transcript: Regina v Sudweeks. The Sudweeks were NOT given any of the horses back. Mark Sudweeks is banned from owning animals in Canada FOR LIFE. There were also neglected/abused dogs in this suit also.
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um, they got 7 of the horses back moron! How do they still have 7 of the horses that they used for rodeos up there. Ive even seen their baby pictures. Sorry charlie! They were given some of the horses back. I think I would know..I was in the program, and rode one of their rodeo horses. haha
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On 2005-06-19 20:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"as far as the situation with the horses in Canada, they were under a caretaker, and the judge said that since he was young and all, or something (he was not a minor though and knew what needed to be done) that he was going to charge Mark. The horse that you see in the pictures..the foal..it had a disease. I forgot what it is called, but it had something to do with its legs. They were going to put the horse down before it it got older (as it was only a few days old) but Cheryl didnt want them to put the little thing down. Even though it wouldnt be able to be ridden, she wanted to raise it. It was not abused though. (In other words, it would have been better if that baby had been put to sleep so all this trouble wouldnt have been started) As with the horses that were seized, some of them were given back because they said there was nothing wrong with them. There really wasnt, and anyone who knows them, knows that the horses were just fine. It is really a sad story because the horses were taken care of up there. Cheryl used to tell me all the time that if I want a good horse, I should go and find one of their old ones and buy it. "
Cheryl told me and Leah's mom and my sister that all the horses in Canada had been killed. She had also told us previously that the horses in Mexico had been killed. When I went to Mexico, where the Sudweeks' place was, I asked what had happen to all of the Sudweeks' horses. I was told by everyone I asked that they never owned horses in Mexico. I heard this from neighbors, workers, people who had shops in town, a man who took us on a tour. Seems funny to me that all of them said the same thing, and Cheryl tells a completely different story.
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two different organizations seized the horses, and they were given 8 of the horses back.
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From what I remember from last time I read the x-script, the judge concluded that the kid named as a caretaker could not be held at fault because Mark hired him to do it, w/o any false representation from the kid about his qualifications. In fact, he would have known the kid well, with the kid's sister being an informal adoptee of the Suds, ya' know?
Mark misjudged the kid, even knowing him as well as he did. The kid was more afraid of getting the Suds into trouble than of having to explain why the horses were starving and freezing to death. That's in the x-script. Look it up.
So why did Mark misjudge this kid's aptitude at overwinter horse care so badly?
That, I think, is the salient question. I don't know the answer.
Wanna know my guess? Ok (you're still reading, right?) Cause the kid was faithful. And, as any parent who still thinks the Whit is the best thing since sliced bread well knows, approval from the Whit is better than any mere highschool could ever bestow. Kids who are faithful to the Whit are to be trusted and honored--celebrated, even--above all others. They've got the gift of the Suds, after all! No need for silly certifications or scrutiny! They're endoursed by the Suds, what more do you need?
Same old song and dance. I know ppl who got off from drunk driving, hit and run, speeding and other moderately serious crimes because the cop on the scene was a Program supporter.
Same old song and dance. It's so obvious.If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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no..ive heard that too from one of the other kids that used to be in the program, but only one horse was shot in Canada, and the DID get some of them back
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the only thing that I am defending here is the fact that some of the horses were given back..I RODE ONE FOR OVER A YEAR!
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Not according to the Court transcripts.
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Amazing isn't it? There's a court transcript right there to read. The Suds can't even own a pet in Canada, yet there's that INSISTANCE that the Canadian authorities would GIVE BACK one of these horses after issuing a LIFE ban against the Suds to own any animals. The Suds can tell a TALE that sticks, can't they?
Still waiting for the Judge's ruling on that horse deal Mark brought against Leah. Think the Judge was checking into exactly why Casie's horse did die, and had a couple of vets to talk with. Think that TALE about taking that horse to the vet and it dying on the way home will hold up?
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Most VETs I know of who treat horses and large animals usually come to the farm/ranch where the horse lives. Not many people take their horse to the VET, like taking a child to the doctor.
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yes well considering they were given the horses back BEFORE court you moron, and then the horses were owned under the girls who did RODEO with them MORON. SORRY! They got horses back, and I RODE ONE OF THRM AND SAW ITS PICTURES FROM WHEN IT WAS A FOAL..which was 17 years ago!! DUH! not to mention it was one of their RODEO horses! hahaha
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sorry charlie AGAIN..they took that horse to the vet. You might could CALL the vet they took it to who happens to be in Payson. They even went out of the way to take the horse to the vet. Yes, the vets make home visits, BUT in emergencies, sometimes you have to take the horse there. I MIGHT know because I OWN A HORSE AND HAD TO BRING IT TO THE VET THE OTHER DAY! MORON. :wstupid:
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sure..there might be some things people lie about and so on and so forth, but this is a totally different topic you are chosing to argue with me about. There are facts that hold to these, and anyone who starts to read this that knows,well...you are going to be looking mighty foolish because you're wrong. They were GIVEN HORSES BACK...and CASIE'S HORSE WAS TAKEN TO THE VET. There is so much proof of all of this, from pictures, to vet bills, to old rodeo things in MAGAZINES and NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC has my HORSE's PICTURE IN IT that i rode when I was there...AND photo albums, and I could go on. But there you have it. Trust me, they were given horses back, and Splash was taken to a vet.
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OK, as they say.
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News Archives
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News - July 2002
SPCA Welcomes Landmark Conviction in Horse Case
Cruelty Conviction for Two South Okanagan Individuals
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Foster Families Needed
Dogs Rescued from Deserted House
Air Canada Jazz Flies to the Aid of Animals
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 22, 2002
SPCA Welcomes Landmark Conviction in Horse Case
Mark Sudweeks has been convicted on two counts of causing distress under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (PCA) Act, resulting in a lifetime prohibition of owning or caring for animals and in fines of $2,000 on each count. The case involved 29 starving horses and seven dogs that were seized by the BC SPCA on January 2001 in the Kleena Kleene Valley, 200 kilometres west of Williams Lake. Separate counts were laid for the horses and dogs.
"This is a landmark decision that clearly demonstrates it is entirely unacceptable to cause animals to suffer," says Doug Brimacombe, CEO of the BC SPCA. "The court has imposed high penalties under the Act in this case, setting a precedent for other animal cruelty cases. We are very pleased with the outcome."
Mark Sudweeks, his wife Cheryl Sudweeks and Bryan Tetz, caretaker of the property where the animals were found, were all charged on two counts, under section 24 (1) of the PCA Act for permitting an animal to be in distress. Bryan Tetz was found guilty on one count under the PCA Act and fined $500, and given a two-year prohibition of owning or caring for animals. Cheryl Sudweeks charges were dismissed.
In an earlier court decision, the BC SPCA was awarded custody of the animals and granted $120,000 towards part of the cost incurred for the care of the animals. The Society hopes to place the animals in permanent homes.
The court decision is the culmination of a case that lasted over 15 months. "It's a great relief and I am thrilled that the penalty matches the crime," says Sharon Caddy, Special Provincial Constable and shelter manager for Williams Lake BC SPCA. Caddy was involved in the seizure of the animals and has worked with those in community to rehabilitate the animals.
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no shit sherlock, Ive read it before. They GOT SOME OF THEIR HORSES BACK! haha. there isnt anything else to say. Sure, MARK was banned from owning them. TOO BAD HIS DAUGHTERS OWNED THEIR HORSES THAT THEY DID RODEO WITH! AND..THEY GOT THEM BACK! for heavens sake..I rode one for over a year!
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not to mention, the horse I rode is 17 years old, and theyve had him since he was born. Ive seen his baby pictures and all! Ive seen pictures of him and one of the daughters at rodeos with him when they LIVED IN CANADA! Lets do some math...Well the horse is 17, and this whole case thing with the animals happened like 3-4 years ago..HMMM..OLD HORSE! DUH!
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and also...I WAS IN THE PROGRAM YOU MORON! i know..you could even ask Leah, Annieliese..any of those people who are against the whitmore..They know those horses are from Canada too..that is something that we BOTH KNOW! haha
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On 2005-06-20 09:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
News Archives
Press Releases
Media Enquiries & Kit
Anim@ls E-Bulletins
AnimalSense Magazine
Public Service Announcements
News - July 2002
SPCA Welcomes Landmark Conviction in Horse Case
Cruelty Conviction for Two South Okanagan Individuals
BC SPCA Seizes 53 Dogs in Kelowna
Foster Families Needed
Dogs Rescued from Deserted House
Air Canada Jazz Flies to the Aid of Animals
More Choices on Your Grocery Store Shelves
Bears: Understanding the World's Most Legendary Predators
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 22, 2002
SPCA Welcomes Landmark Conviction in Horse Case
Mark Sudweeks has been convicted on two counts of causing distress under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (PCA) Act, resulting in a lifetime prohibition of owning or caring for animals and in fines of $2,000 on each count. The case involved 29 starving horses and seven dogs that were seized by the BC SPCA on January 2001 in the Kleena Kleene Valley, 200 kilometres west of Williams Lake. Separate counts were laid for the horses and dogs.
"This is a landmark decision that clearly demonstrates it is entirely unacceptable to cause animals to suffer," says Doug Brimacombe, CEO of the BC SPCA. "The court has imposed high penalties under the Act in this case, setting a precedent for other animal cruelty cases. We are very pleased with the outcome."
Mark Sudweeks, his wife Cheryl Sudweeks and Bryan Tetz, caretaker of the property where the animals were found, were all charged on two counts, under section 24 (1) of the PCA Act for permitting an animal to be in distress. Bryan Tetz was found guilty on one count under the PCA Act and fined $500, and given a two-year prohibition of owning or caring for animals. Cheryl Sudweeks charges were dismissed.
In an earlier court decision, the BC SPCA was awarded custody of the animals and granted $120,000 towards part of the cost incurred for the care of the animals. The Society hopes to place the animals in permanent homes.
The court decision is the culmination of a case that lasted over 15 months. "It's a great relief and I am thrilled that the penalty matches the crime," says Sharon Caddy, Special Provincial Constable and shelter manager for Williams Lake BC SPCA. Caddy was involved in the seizure of the animals and has worked with those in community to rehabilitate the animals.
"
Ironic isn't it? The Suds horses had to be "rehabilitated" only unlike troubled teens, these horses were treated humanely.
What a crock the teen help industry is but as long as their are parents DESPERATE to get back in control of their so-called defiant teens, these programs will continue to exist ... and sadly, abuse their clients (kids) with relative immunity.
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On 2005-06-19 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"two different organizations seized the horses, and they were given 8 of the horses back.
"
Just so you know, in BC only one agency can seize animals, the SPCA. This is fact, I had it confimred, no other agency took in those horses although there were foster families but they could not have made the decision to return the animals. There is no second agency that would have had that power. This is fact despite anything else you may have heard. FACT, LAW.
Does this mean the SPCA does not believe in the charges they laid and returned those horses? WOW. How can they on one hand request a lifetime ban on animal owning and $120,000 in vet bills and yet return these horses to the Sudweeks? I am amazed.
One of two things has happened. 1. The SPCA has cheated BC taxpayers out of 100's of thousands of dollars to prosecute and they recieved some pretty good press they didnt deserve. Seems they owe both the province and the Sudweeks an apology if they suddenly changed their minds or 2. The Sudweeks have lied.
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//TOO BAD HIS DAUGHTERS OWNED THEIR HORSES THAT THEY DID RODEO WITH! AND..THEY GOT THEM BACK! for heavens sake..I rode one for over a year!//
Seems to me you are bragging about a technicality that put the horses back in the hands of their tormentors. Happens all the time - but it dam sure aint nuthin to brag about.
//Lets do some math...Well the horse is 17, ..HMMM..OLD HORSE! DUH!//
Are you trying to say it is OK to starve a 17 year old horse? Is it OK to starve a 2 year old or a five year old? Why is the horse's age even an issue?
And BTW - while 17 isn't a youngster - if the horse has been cared for responsibly, 17 isn't Old. A well cared for horse can live to see 30, so 17 is just well into middle age.
Frankly - I can not get over you people trying to excuse away the obvious gross abuse and neglect of the dogs and horses by the Sudwicks.
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On 2005-06-20 10:44:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"//TOO BAD HIS DAUGHTERS OWNED THEIR HORSES THAT THEY DID RODEO WITH! AND..THEY GOT THEM BACK! for heavens sake..I rode one for over a year!//
Seems to me you are bragging about a technicality that put the horses back in the hands of their tormentors. Happens all the time - but it dam sure aint nuthin to brag about.
//Lets do some math...Well the horse is 17, ..HMMM..OLD HORSE! DUH!//
Are you trying to say it is OK to starve a 17 year old horse? Is it OK to starve a 2 year old or a five year old? Why is the horse's age even an issue?
And BTW - while 17 isn't a youngster - if the horse has been cared for responsibly, 17 isn't Old. A well cared for horse can live to see 30, so 17 is just well into middle age.
Frankly - I can not get over you people trying to excuse away the obvious gross abuse and neglect of the dogs and horses by the Sudwicks."
Me either, BK.
Maybe if we keep saying it enough, these people will get it ....
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE!
Pass the word ...
:nworthy:
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"The trial judge found that sometime before
January 3, 2001, seven horses escaped or were released from
the south pasture. They were seized by a Ministry of Forests
employee on January 4, 2001, all in reasonable condition."
This quote is from the court transcript and maybe this is what these kids are talking about. These seven were seized by a ministry of forest employee before the seizure at the Lodge as they were wandering and they obviously were able to find food and water outside of the pasture.
Since he was not part of the SPCA or the RCMP, he would have had to give them to the Sudweeks. He couldnt even turn them into the SPCA since they were in reasonable condition, the SPCA would have only been able to charge them for their animals being at large since they were at the time in reasonable condition.
From my understanding of the law, The SPCA could not seize them as the rules of the SPCA clearly state that if an animal has food, shelter and water, regardless as to how it is obtained, it cannot be seized and those horses did obtain those things albeit for themselves. There are cases where well meaning people feed and water neglected dogs who have been told that as long as "someone" is feeding the animal the SPCA cannot step in.
It is a misconception that they have the power to automatically seize any animal they believe the owner is abusing. Even when the animal is wandering around, the most they can do is fine you for the animal being at large unless their physical condition indicates neglect or abuse and even then, they cannot always do something. There are rules.
It would seem from the transcript that 29 horses were seized of the 39. This means some of them were not included in the seizure and those 7 were probably included in the 10 not seized. it does not negate the suffering of the 29 seized that some of them were in "reasonable" condition, but it does is tell you that those seized must have been in frightful condition that they felt they had grounds to seize them! It is not a testiment to the Sudweeks' good care that they were able to keep some of them it just means the SPCA did not have enough power to keep them.
By the time the ruling came down, the horses not included in the seizure were out of the country and out of the jurisdiction of the BC SPCA so they could not be seized. Had they remained in Canada, they most likely would have been as Mark now has a ban against him preventing him from ever owning another animal in BC. That is why you rode those horses. It has nothing to do with them not neglecting them.
I repeat: The fact that some of those animals were "in reasonable condition" does not negate the fact that 29 others were starving. It only means some of them were able to get free of their barren pasture and found food but they were unfortunately returned to their abusers due to a loop hole in the law. That is NOTHING to be proud of and certainly does not prove 29 horses did not suffer terribly.
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mom2three you have no fucking idea what your talking about I was there for that and they were not released we were all at the school building so y don't you get your facts straight, also which kid of yours went to whitmore
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On 2005-01-27 17:56:00, schacherer wrote:
"I recently posted a part of my story about the Whitmore. I was just reading some of the past articles about the Whitmore and I cam across one about abuse. While I was at the Whitmore I had kissed one of the boys there and we had a marathon group about it. The group started at about 6:30 at night and did't end until about 3:00 in the morning. The next day we were made to get up on schedule at 5:00. Anyways, after the group one of the girls Anneliese came up to me upstairs where I was in the closet room (where I was made to sleep for a week) and she said she wanted to talk to me. One of the things she started out with was "Cheryl told me to come up here and teach you a lesson, and she also gave me permission to do whatever the hell I wanted to do to you because you and just a little slut and a whore, you are worthless and thats why you do things with boys" after she was finished talking she got real close to my face and spit in it, after that she slapped me on the cheek a couple of times adn then she punched me in the stomache. There was nothing I could do because no body else was around and this girl was about 150lbs or more than me. I was so scared and there wasn't anything I could do about it.
The next time I got in trouble we had gone to Lake Powell and while we were there I stole pills from one of the boys there, they were prescription pills that Mark and Cheryl knew about that he had in his backpack, anyway me and two fo the other girls took them together. When we got caught Cheryl brought us into a room and yelled at me, but the other two girls she said that she felt sorry for so she was hugging them and telling them that she understood. Then she made them leave the room. When they left she started cussing at me and then threw a stack of huge books at me. Then she came up to me and spit on me and pulled my hair and practically threw me over a chair. Again there was nothing I could do.
There was also another incident with the boys, there was a boy named Tony in the program when I had forst gotten there, he got in trouble for something and some of the boys that were mad at him asked Cheryl if the could beat him up, and she said "what i dont know anything about it if anyone asks" so they took the boy out on the side of the mansion where they park the cars and they (dusty, rob, aaron, cory, brian, and a few of other boys just started kicking him and punching him and they got him on the ground and they hit his head on one of the cars and they were hurting him really bad. He couldnt do anything.
Cheryl doesn't care about anything but herself. I think she takes drugs that don't belong to her. In june of 2004 i fell off of my horse and i broke my ribs and sprained my ribs and i had a few pretty big bumps on my head, i got three bottles of pills, lorotabs, ibproufin 800, and perkasets. they are pain killers, well i didnt take very many of them because my mom said that they werent good for me and plus they made me sick so there were a lot left in the bottles. I went home in july and i moved back to Utah to live on my own in the beginning of August, i went back to the Whitmore to get the pills so I could send them to my mom and there was one lorotab left and about 3 ibproufins, and i wondered where did the rest of my pills go? I had asked Cheryl and she said she didnt know. How is this a good place to send your child when they are missing pills? Mark and Cheryl always leave their downstairs bedroom door open and unlocked, its not hard to go down there and get whatever you want, trust me, i know."
so long ago
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Why Mickeymouse, you were just there for every little event, huh? JUST HOW MANY YEARS were you locked up...uh I mean enrolled, at the Whitmore?