Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 03:28:00 PM

Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
I was in Cross Creek Manor back in 1989,and am just curious what happened to the man?!! It's like he dropped off the face of the earth! I still have nightmares of that place. After all these years, you'd think I would be over everything that happened to me. I am 32, and newly married. Well, I decided to do a google search on Robert Lichfield the other day, and was sick to my stomach when I learned of everything. All these schools he's started, all the abuse allegations. I am just hoping it's not as bad as it looks to be. I ran away from Cross Creek 2-14-89 by dangling out a window by a vacuum cord, then dropping to the ground and running into the night. They did run after me, but never continued the search since I had dirt on Bob Lichfield for innapropriate behavior. After nearly a month after being on the run, I got in touch with my therapist Dr. Goodwin, and arranged with my parents to not have to return to the school. I never did, I talked with Social Services which banned Lichfield from Cross Creek. I have to admit something though, I was in another school before that in Provo Utah called Heritage school where I was for 4 years. By the time I reached Cross Creek, since I got kicked out of Heritage School, I was a confused young lady who was seeking out the attentions of an older man. That happened to be Lichfield, he was an easy target. I was 16, very pretty, with a gorgeous body. I got him to take me shopping, do special favors for me, and some other things that I will not get into. But, I always felt a little bad for getting the guy into so much trouble. But you know what, the guy had threatened to send me to a wilderness program if I told anyone what had happened between him, and I. I then realized I probably wasn't the first girl this had happened to, or the last. After running away, I reported it, which resulted in him being banned from Cross Creek. It didn't stop him from opening up all these schools though. Why I decided to revisit this, I don't really know why? But, in the last week I have read a million articles on all this. It's extremely interested what has come of all this. Do I think he is evil? Well, I am not sure about that. I do know that he's very greedy though. I don't think he cares one bit about the children in any of his schools. I am shocked to hear of him being a Gospel Doctrine teacher??? What's that all about???? I know there is somebody out there that could turn this into a great movie!!! I also want to say hi to all those girls who  I was in there with. I hope you are all happy, and healthy. Let's not ever do to our children, what was done to us. OTherwise WWASP will be around forever! Keep smiling everyone, and I'll see you around here again!

Randi
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 05:18:00 PM
There is a movie about WWASPS called SELF MEDICATED.  It's the true story of a kid who was sent to Brightway and ran away, only to be recaptured and sent to another WWASPS program in St. George, and then, while being transported to Paradise Cove, escaped from his escorts at the Honolulu Airport.  The names of the psychiatric hospital (Brightway) and the programs were changed as this is a fictionalized story based on actual events.  You can check out the movie here (it's at the bottom on the page).

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org)

 :wave:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 14, 2005, 05:22:00 PM
I will check it out! Thanks :smile: BTW-since I plan on staying here a while, I decided to give myself a username. Were you in one of these schools?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 08:13:00 PM
CCM girl, have you thought about giving a statement to ISAC ( http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org) )?  I think they would be really interested in hearing about what Bob Lichfield did, given he is the head honcho.  (Okay he pays Ken Kay to be front man but Lichfield still pulls the strings).  I wasn't aware he had been banned from his own school too.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 15, 2005, 12:28:00 PM
No, I am not interested in making any statements to ISAC. I think that what I have to say about what happened to me 15+ years ago is pretty irrelevant to what is happening now. It seems like there are some kids in these places that are truely being physically, and emotionally abused, and they are the true victims here. I think that Bob, Brent, Ken, Karr, and all the other men who run these organizations don't really care what happens to the kids who attend their schools. Honestly, the money is what they care about most. I'm not really sure how they sleep at night? These programs need a complete overhaul. I don't believe in Tough Love. Most individual, and family therapy can be done from the child living at home. These programs they have, are a bunch of bullshit from the old school way of thinking. They think by making things tougher, and tougher, it will whip kids into shape, and do whatever they are told. I have often thought that it is many of these parents who need to be in these facilities. I say you shut down all these abusive schools, and re-open them with a different attitude. Since often times it's a combination of things that is making a family disfunctional, there should be a place where kids, and parents go for intensive therapy, together, for two weeks, and get things back on tract. Now, if the kids are on drugs, and need to detox, well then that is a totally different story.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 15, 2005, 01:42:00 PM
Quote
No, I am not interested in making any statements to ISAC. I think that what I have to say about what happened to me 15+ years ago is pretty irrelevant to what is happening now.


Wha? Waaaitaminute, its VERY important!  :wink:

The inspiration of the Bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 06:08:00 PM
Its almost like a parent hiring an abusive babysitter and just forgetting about it. Wouldn?t you be upset if you hired a babysitter and they had a history of abuse yet the former clients of this babysitter didn?t speak up and let you know the real deal behind this sitter? I think you have a lot of credibility even though it was 15 years ago. The thing about WWASPS is that they have had a pattern of reports of abuse for over a decade now. Its not like WWASPS have had people who only complained in 2001, this has been recurring year after year. WWASPS knows former students are too damaged or too scared to speak out, this is why they are still open today.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Jeff_Berryman on October 16, 2005, 10:13:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-14 12:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Let's not ever do to our children, what was done to us. OTherwise WWASP will be around forever! Keep smiling everyone, and I'll see you around here again!



Randi"


Randi:

I know quite a few people who would be interested in your experiences.  Please E-mail me privately at [email protected] and I'll send you some links.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 16, 2005, 12:17:00 PM
Here's the honest to god truth..........I am afraid to speak out. If fact, I am sure that they know exactly who I am. Look, I am married now, have a career I enjoy, and would prefer not to end up in a ditch! When I think about these men that run these places, I think about all the power they have, and they would never risk losing the lifestyle they have grown so accustumed to. They'd rather have me, and others like me killed. Back when I was in Cross Creek when they were just getting started......and I had my experiences that I had, and I threatened to speak out, and they said if I did they would have me sent to a hard core wilderness camp. Well, 15 years down the road and millions of dollars later why wouldn't they think that getting rid of me would be a lot cheaper then seeing me in a court of law testifying against them. They will not risk losing their money, and being embarressed. This is what needs to happen........we need decoys to go in there. With all the technology these days it wouldn't be so hard to document the abuse. There is no doubt in my mind if you do this, and have proof that you will be able to shut these places down. It's so easy for WWASPS to say oh these kids will try and manipulate their parents by telling lies so the parents will take them home. If I were on a jury, and heard both sides of a case such as mine, well I wouldn't know who to believe? You know, it wasn't just what happened between Bob and I. There was an incident with a couple of houseparents, I called the wife a bitch, and I was prepared for punishment with "work hours" (that was our old way of punishment....mowing the lawns of Cross Creek in 100 degree heat with a dull push mower, or working in the kitchen doing dishes, or washing vans, etc.) instead the husband pushed me to the ground, grabbed my ankles and drug me into the common area room infont of 10 students and held my legs while he was kicking me. There was a lot of strange stuff that happened to me there. The staff were not trained or edjucated to handle kids with problems. I don't know what to say...........I think their schools will eventually be proved abusive, and will be shut down. By the way, you have my permission to print these emails out and use them in anyway you like. I just don't think I could do anything more. I hope you understand.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 02:05:00 PM
LOL ... Berryman!  You still supporting P.U.R.E. or have you moved on to being a REAL children's rights advocate?

Which is it? You can't expect to play on both teams and be taken seriously by those who are in this solely for THE KIDS and trying to protect their interests from outfits that profit from referring them into WWASPS competitors.

 :flame:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
Yeah Jeff, let's hear you denounce the web-based program referral services ... you know, the ones that recommend programs for "a finder's fee" and promote the kidnapping of children from their beds under the cover of darkness?

Hmmmm? Think it might be time for you to make a "disclosure" statement of your own?

 :roll:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 02:43:00 PM
The bigger they are, the harder they will fall. Anyone out there agree? Lichfield and all his partners in crime will be exposed. When this happens they will not be able to escape all the embarressment. The day will come soon enough.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 16, 2005, 02:49:00 PM
Listen here, if anyone can prove to me that Jeff Berryman is no better then WWASPS........then I would love to hear it. Show me proof!
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 03:23:00 PM
CCM ... FYI, one of the non-WWASPS programs PURE refers to is Whitmore Academy which is a program in Utah where the owner, Cheryl Sudweeks has been charged with child abuse and hazing.  According to ex-Whitmore parents who post on Fornits, Sue Scheff of PURE referred most (maybe even all?) the Whitmore kids.  ISAC published statements from some of these parents/students on their website. See link below.

http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/jharris.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/jharris.pdf)

As for Berryman, don't think I have ever seen a statement from him denouncing ed cons and/or parent referral services like PURE. Perhaps he will enlighten us as to whether he still supports PURE and other outfits like them who make a living referring kids into for-profit teen help programs?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 03:57:00 PM
You people here on Fornits have made errors in your judgment in the past, which has caused some very sincere and loyal people who were out there to help the kids to walk away feeling defeated. It's true, so no use arguing the point.

Before messing with yet another person who may very well be acting in the best interest of the kids, why not do some homework and bring some real proof that he is somehow not looking out for their best interest. Otherwise, I would recommend everyone try working with one another, not against one another.

Do all the kids who need our help a favor - stop being so damn judgmental and critical of people who you do not even know anything about. You think you do but in reality you have no idea. I know this for a fact. You sit at your computers, acting like judges. But in real life everyone comes before a judge with their sides of the story, there's a jury of peers to help decide who is right and who is wrong, and then the judge states his ruling or the jury votes. That certainly does not go on here.

You people, the judges here on Fornits and elsewhere, have no idea the magnitude of damage you have caused to those who would and could have done some great things for the kids. You need to really process what I'm saying because this has been going on for quite some time now. You pick on someone, whoever it might be at the time, and you just don't give up until you do irreversible damage. Also, you tell too damn much here, don't you all know WWASP is out there reading all of your posts?

What I find ironic is that most of you don't even know each other. You think you do. But typing in a Forum does not constitute a relationship formed that is of any quality whatsoever.

Anyway, I'm not trying to lecture anyone or to piss anyone off. I'm still trying to hit it home to some of you that you are doing more damage than good in many instances. It's great to get out there and get voices heard. But in reality the voices heard here on Fornits will do nothing more than possibly get attention from potential parents. But if they read too much they'll get turned off by the way people interract and I doubt they'll value the information they find here. That, I feel, is sad because Ginger works extremely hard to get the word out and not censor what you guys are saying. Good in some ways, damaging in others. I see why she does it but I don't necessarily agree (I think there are times when some posts should be removed, but this is not my site and I have no say how she runs it). It's OK, we don't all have to agree on how we do things.

I think the important thing to remember at this point is that for any real change to happen a large number of like-minded people are going to have to learn to work together for the good of the kids. Until that happens and until some large organization/s come forward and sticks their necks out, not much is going to change. At least not for a long time. I know people get excited that a movie is coming out, a show, an article, but, as I type this, most people have no idea the teen industry exists. I know because I talk to many people and I mention it to everyone. I have yet to run into someone who has ever heard of WWASP, or any other group for that matter. So we're not succeeding yet, we need to find better ways to get the word out there.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: BuzzKill on October 16, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .

Also, the same can be said of filing a report with ISAC about your experience. There is no reason to be afraid. No one is going to come after you, and you are hardly alone.

It is important for people like yourself to speak out in meaningful ways. I wish you would call or write ISAC. If you feel threatened, you could ask that things be kept in confidence. I think in time you'll see the risk is exaggerated in your mind and I hope you will want to make a more formal statement - but either way - I do hope you will contact ISAC.

Take the time to look over their site, and read some of the other student's statements. This might help you feel less alone. Read over the wwasp report and the Tranquility Bay report - both have many student (as well as parent) accounts. I really think you would find yourself empowered, if you read these other's accounts.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Devlin on October 16, 2005, 04:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 13:29:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .




what is Mr. Berrymans objectives?

Gaining their trust by saying bad things about WWASP?

Then make money off sue and PURE from program referals? Like sending kids to abusive programs like Whitmore?

Suckering desperate parents?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 05:17:00 PM
CCM girl this is another attempt of WWASPIES and others with a financial agenda to derail the main point of this thread. This thread is about Cross Creek, not PURE, Jeff, etc?.

CCM girl I think the majority of people here would tell you, you can trust ISAC.

The best thing to do is to contact as many media organizations as you can. If you?re concerned about your safety, at least this way your name is out in the open.

PS ? Anyone who replies to the PURE BS in non PURE related threads is just trying to mix things up and change the topic. If you have issues with Jeff or PURE START A NEW THREAD
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 05:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 11:49:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"Listen here, if anyone can prove to me that Jeff Berryman is no better then WWASPS........then I would love to hear it. Show me proof!"


Not sure if this is "proof." But it's excerpts from a court of law.  

http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html (http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html)
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: AtomicAnt on October 16, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
The part about most people being ignorant of these programs is true. I find the same thing. Most people have never heard of Straight, or WWASP. Many people I talk to don't believe me when I attempt to explain it. Some who do believe me don't care because they think the kids deserve it.

I suppose you could argue that reasonable explanation might convince parents to examine the industry more than confrontation, but my experience here says that is not true. In every instance that I have seen, Posters faced with reasonable explanations or clear evidence will deflect the issues, ignore them and question something else, or just say we are all liars.

A parent who is really interested in this topic would only use this forum as springboard to direct them to ISAC or to the many news articles that question the practices of these organizations. They would have to make up their own minds based on what they find.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 05:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-16 11:49:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:


"Listen here, if anyone can prove to me that Jeff Berryman is no better then WWASPS........then I would love to hear it. Show me proof!"




Not sure if this is "proof." But it's excerpts from a court of law.  



http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html (http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/jeff_b.html)

"


wwasprebuttal is a WWASPie propaganda site, full of lies and deception, just like their marketing brochures.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 06:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 13:29:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"CCM'89 - you don't have to be afraid to talk with Jeff if you want to. He is not a bad guy. He doesn't want to rattle Susan's cage - and this does seem to fly in the face of his objectives - but it doesn't make him a bad guy. A little conflicted maybe. . .



Also, the same can be said of filing a report with ISAC about your experience. There is no reason to be afraid. No one is going to come after you, and you are hardly alone.



It is important for people like yourself to speak out in meaningful ways. I wish you would call or write ISAC. If you feel threatened, you could ask that things be kept in confidence. I think in time you'll see the risk is exaggerated in your mind and I hope you will want to make a more formal statement - but either way - I do hope you will contact ISAC.



Take the time to look over their site, and read some of the other student's statements. This might help you feel less alone. Read over the wwasp report and the Tranquility Bay report - both have many student (as well as parent) accounts. I really think you would find yourself empowered, if you read these other's accounts."


Jeff Berryman needs to speak for himself, BK. Why he ever get involved with PURE and Sue Scheff is beyond me.  She is a program referral service, not a children's rights advocate or activist, as Berryman likes to call himself.

Ooops, you already knew that ... as one of the original PURE defenders, right?  Good Lord, what's it gonna take to wake the rest of 'em up?

 :rofl:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 06:26:00 PM
I call Bullshit.

Whitmore is under investigation.  The owner charged with child abuse and hazing.  PURE referred (maybe still does) to Whitmore.

Anything on PURE's website to broaden parent awarenss about the issues surrounding Whitmore Academy (e.g. news articles in the SLT, Deseret News, etc)?

What about letters from ex-Whitmore parents and students?  Links to ISAC where these documents can be read?  

Anything at all?

 :silly:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 07:28:00 PM
Just wondering if anyone sees any problem with people sharing their stories, etc., with ISAC while they are being sued by WWASP.

By the way, anyone know how many people are being sued by WWASP right now, and why?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Antigen on October 16, 2005, 07:45:00 PM
Did you have any problem using my server while I was under suit by PURE?

Ga' `head, answer... I dare ya!

I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father and inventor

Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: BuzzKill on October 16, 2005, 09:10:00 PM
ISAC is not being sued by WWASP.

Bob Lichfield is suing them all by himself for interferring with his purchase of the Kemper Academy in Missouri.

I see no problem with anyone giving a statment to ISAC as a result; in fact, I hope more and more will do so.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 09:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 18:10:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"ISAC is not being sued by WWASP.



Bob Lichfield is suing them all by himself for interferring with his purchase of the Kemper Academy in Missouri.



I see no problem with anyone giving a statment to ISAC as a result; in fact, I hope more and more will do so.













"


Okay, do I have this right?

WWASPS (Bob Litchfield) sued ISAC and PURE (Sue Scheff) sued FORNITS?

If so, then would someone please explain to us what the hell the difference is between these two outfits (WWASPS and PURE)?

 :roll:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2005, 11:26:00 PM
WWASPS is a company that oversees several behavior modification and residential programs.

PURE is a referral service - meaning they refer parents to these type of schools.  They do not refer to WWASPS because there's no monetary compensation to do so for them or ANY Educational Consultant.  That's why you won't get them to refer you to WWASPS. Regardless of what you hear, that is the only reason they don't refer to any WWASPS school or program.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 16, 2005, 11:47:00 PM
I remember what it was like 15 years ago when I had nobody to turn to. Being at Cross Creek was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 32 years old. I thought at the age of 24 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE WWASPS PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These houseparents were young,and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to Cross Creek ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on WWASPS facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Fifteen years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough........but knowing that they've multiplied like this???? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you WWASPS, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourselves in the mirror?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 12:25:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-16 20:47:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"I remember what it was like 15 years ago when I had nobody to turn to. Being at Cross Creek was so hard for me, I had no voice, nobody believed me about anything. I hate the fact that the majority of people if not all people have no idea where I am coming from. My husband is wondering why I even care, and I should just put this all behind me. Nobody knows until you are locked up in one of these places, and the days go by sooooo slowly. Look, I am 32 years old. I thought at the age of 24 I was done with all this (that's my guesstimate when I first let go, now it has come back). Well, I gave it a lot of time, ,and energy back in the day. Nobody fought for me, I didn't have people like you on my side. Had I had the support that's so obviously there for teens now, I would have taken these assholes down a long time ago. I am here to say THINK TWICE BEFORE SENDING YOUR CHILDREN TO ANY OF THESE WWASPS PROGRAMS. Seriously, when I was there they hired just anyone off the street. The only person that had any kind of degree around there was your therapist who you saw once a week. These houseparents were young,and had no experience with kids. Lately, I have felt horrible. All these kids, who like me didn't want to be sent away. It wasn't by choice. I know my parents made some very poor decisions. The decision of sending me to Cross Creek ranks # 1 on the list. Still after all these years, my Dad says how sorry he is. My Dad is 85 years old, and loves watching Fox News. There has been reports on WWASPS facilities, and now he realizes that I was telling the truth. Especially, when I am able to tell him everything today just the way I did all those years ago. It's amazing, I remember things as if it were only yesterday. You always remember the truth, because you experienced it. Lies get washed away. I need to know why this has gone so far? Why after all these years is it still happening? Fifteen years later I do a "google search" and I am horrified. I thought having one school was bad enough........but knowing that they've multiplied like this???? How did this happen? I should have done something while I had the chance. With the financial momentum they have, they get squashed, then they re-invent themselves. I want to know you WWASPS, how do you wake up everyday and look at yourselves in the mirror?"


Part of the reason it's gotten this far, is because of struggling parents who look to these programs as some sort of magic bullet (pill) to cure their failure as a parent.

See the article on TAUSA about WHO'S CRISIS IS THIS, ANYWAY?

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org)

 :wave:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 12:04:00 PM
CCM: I do hope you will make a statement to ISAC, and formally "tell your story." What happened to you as a young girl is still going on today, and parents are still unaware that their decision very often results in the horrendous abuse of their children in these facilities.

The ANON poster who stated such postings only grab "the attention of potential parents:" WELL, that is one of the MAIN PURPOSES for this forum---for parents who are considering placing their child to become aware of just what can happen to their child in such facilities!

The public DOES CARE about kids being abused in these programs; and making the public aware must continue to be a priority.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 12:42:00 PM
Hmmm................that's interesting. The only reason why Pure doesn't refer people to WWASPS is because they are not financially compensated? Well, whatever the reason is, I'm glad they don't. I thought Cross Creek Manor was bad when I was there, back in 1989. I thought the rules and punishments were so harsh then. But now, I don't think I could handle it. I don't like people who go on "power trips", all the staff pretty much got off on telling us what to do, and punishing us if we didn't do it. They would try to upset us purposely, it was pretty sick, and twisted. I barely kept my cool back then. I can't imagine being there the way it is run today. I'm pretty sure I would have hurt some people. I'm the type of person if you push me into the corner, and taunt me, you have better watch out. I am surprised that none of these head honchos have had there lives taken. Teens these days are smarter, and are great at tracking the movements of these men. It's funny, a couple days ago I posted, and said I was concerned for my safety. I cannot even imagine what it's like for all these men who run WWASPS. Not only are you dealing with pissed off teenagers, but you have their parents who are pretty pissed off too!!! These men feel like they are untouchable. God, I don't see how they keep going?!! It seems like they are having to put out a lot of fires?!! Anyone want to make any predictions of what these men from WWASPS will have in store for them in the next upcoming years???
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 12:46:00 PM
CCM Girl - if you intend to do anything to help the cause, I would be cautious about what you say on Fornits. Your credibility could be ruined by some comments you are already making, like:

"  I don't like people who go on "power trips", all the staff pretty much got off on telling us what to do, and punishing us if we didn't do it. They would try to upset us purposely, it was pretty sick, and twisted. I barely kept my cool back then. I can't imagine being there the way it is run today. I'm pretty sure I would have hurt some people. I'm the type of person if you push me into the corner, and taunt me, you have better watch out. I am surprised that none of these head honchos have had there lives taken. "
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:04:00 PM
You need to come out from under the sheltered existence you've apparently been living under.  Sounds to me like she's got a right to be that pissed off.  The vast majority of those staff ARE on power trips.  Do you enjoy people like that actually having power over you?  I sure don't.  Nothing in that post would "ruin her credibility".  She didn't call for the beheading of any of the honchos, just stated that she was surprised no one has done that.  Hell, I am too.

Free speech lives on.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:17:00 PM
Free speech gets people in trouble and makes them lose credibility. Re-read what she said. If she wants to make a difference then she should keep her story to herself until she decides if she wants to share it. And then she should share it with a lawyer, someone who can lead her in the right direction. I know some people think otherwise, but I've seen it over and over again where people spread their story here and there and then when they are questionned in depositions and on the stand they have a hard time remembering all they have said. When the opposing lawyer, if she are involved in a lawsuit, puts a sentence she has said on a huge poster board for all to see, it can ruin her credibility. Plain and simple. Best thing for CCM Girl to do is to get a hold of a lawyer and ask him or her how she should handle her story. None of us should be telling her what to do or not to do. I do know that Fornits posts have been used in court, something to remember and to think about.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:21:00 PM
For example:

"I barely kept my cool back then... I would have hurt some people... if you push me into the corner, and taunt me, you have better watch out. I am surprised that none of these head honchos have had there lives taken. "

It makes her sound unstable and violent, and it will serve WWASP very well.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 01:23:00 PM
I have a right to say whatever I like. I am not suggesting that anybody go out, and kill anyone!?!! Are you kidding me, I would never, ever, ever , want that to happen to anyone. That would mean they were getting off way too easily!!! If all these things I read are true, or even half of these things are true, then these schools must be shut down. These WWASPS are going to go down in a court of law. I'm just going to sit back and watch it all unfold, with a bowl of popcorn in hand. It's inevitable, you can't grow these schools into the numbers they have, have coucilers with no formal training, and expect bad things not to happen.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:24:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-17 10:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"None of us should be telling her what to do or not to do.


Alright then stop telling her what to do and what not to say and where to say it or not to say it.  Sounds like a plan to me.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:26:00 PM
Sounds like good advice to me. Just trying to protect her and her story, if she wants to actually use it to help the kids. It seems that's not what she plans to do, instead she's going to eat a bowl of popcorn and watch it unfold.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-17 10:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

 Just trying to protect her and her story,


Who died and made you fucking queen?  I don't remember anyone asking for or needing your "protection".  :roll:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:31:00 PM
Queen? Hmmmmmm, don't think so. King maybe, not queen. And no one made me king, I just am stating an opinion and trying to help this person protect her story, should she really want to do something to help. Maybe she should get a hold of Alison, the therapist who is going to do a survey. CCM Girl, if you do want to share your story with anyone, then there is a woman who is going to do a survey and your input could be valuable. Just a thought. If you show interest I can find the information out for you.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:33:00 PM
Out of the millions and billions of people in the world, 10 are online right now at Fornits. I wonder if your energies could be better spent somewhere else? Each of us could do something productive today to help the kids - a letter, a phone call, make fliers, anything, but something, other than sitting in front a computer getting pissed off at each other.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:34:00 PM
God I am so sick of people telling others that they're not enough of an activist or that they're not an activist in the right way.  Get off your high horse dude.  

CCM...post what you want, the way you want.  The control ended when you got out.  If you want to "help", great.  If you'd rather sit back with your bowl of popcorn, go right ahead.  You've earned it.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 01:34:00 PM
Oh please, you quote me, and you have no clue who I am, or what I have been through. I'm merely stating that if I were 15 years old today, with the problems I had back then, put into Cross Creek Manor the way it is run today, that I don't think I could handle it!
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-17 10:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Out of the millions and billions of people in the world, 10 are online right now at Fornits. I wonder if your energies could be better spent somewhere else? Each of us could do something productive today to help the kids - a letter, a phone call, make fliers, anything, but something, other than sitting in front a computer getting pissed off at each other."


Well then get off your damn computer and get out there.  That's YOUR way of helping.  I've done enough to help, believe me.  I've earned my place in the LazyBoy.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 01:37:00 PM
A survey would be fine. Get me the information of the person I should contact. I will go ahead, and do it.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:41:00 PM
You probably couldn't handle it today and you shouldn't have to handle it. Nor should you have had to handle it back then. I'm not trying to tell you what to do but just give you some advice. Constructive advice. You can do whatever you want to with it. It is your choice how you handle your story. I was only trying to let you know what has happened in the past since you are new here.

Anyway, the fact is I hate these programs too. What they did to you is horrific and you should never have had to go through any of it, let alone at the age of 15. One of the problems, as I see it, is lack of knowledge. Too many people in the world do not know what is happening. Every time I mention it to others, and that is very often, they have never heard of it. I find it hard to believe but that's because I'm in the middle of it because of someone I love.

The point is the word needs to get out. I'm not sure what the best approach will be but parents are mindlessly and naively sending their kids away to programs who make them believe they will help their kids. I can't fathom for a single moment how a parent could fall for it. I just can't. It boggles my mind how someone could think sending their child hundreds or thousands of miles away could be good for them. That not talking to their child for months on end could be good for them. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Good luck, CCM Girl. You never deserved what happened to you and I only hope you find peace with all of it. Whatever you decide to do is up to you and no one else. I apologize if I seemed to be "telling" you what to do because that was not my intention. I just wanted to share what I've learned and observed.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:44:00 PM
Here's a link to Alison Pinto's website. Her phone number and email are listed toward the bottom of the page. Good luck, I think contacting her would be a good start.

http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html)
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-17 10:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

 If she wants to make a difference then she should keep her story to herself until she decides if she wants to share it. And then she should share it with a lawyer, someone who can lead her in the right direction."


Maybe its just me, but that seems a lot like you're telling her what she should do.  There's an awful lot of "you/she shoulds" in your posts to her.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:46:00 PM
Read my post to her above. I was just trying to give her some advice from what I've seen and learned. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. I wish her the very best and hope she gets in touch with Alison and participates in the survey. I don't know if the survey is even ready yet, but I know it's in the works.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 01:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-17 10:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Here's a link to Alison Pinto's website. Her phone number and email are listed toward the bottom of the page. Good luck, I think contacting her would be a good start.



http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html)"


More regulation.  Yeah, that's the ticket, yeah.  :roll:

The people involved may very well have all the best intentions.  I don't know enough about them but I am hesitant to trust that government regulation will solve this problem, especially considering the current administration.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 02:09:00 PM
A little history on me.........I was first sent away at the age of 12. I'll never forget the date 1-16-86. I was the youngest girl at the school. My first placement was called Heritage School for girls, located in Provo, Utah. Anyway, I was only supposed to be there for 1 year. 1 year came, and went.....I lost my only brother 6 months after I got there in a freak drowning accident. That was my first homevisit, was attending his funeral. I didn't go on many homevisits, 2-3 a year. I never got in any trouble when I went home, I did everything I could to prove to my parents I would be the perfect daughter, it didn't work. They were happy to have me gone, that way they could retire, and travel the world. Anyway, I went to my therapy sessions, and as time went on.......we all knew that I was going to be left to rot in these places till I turned 18 no matter how great I did. It was hard work to maintain the level system, to be perfect, to not get upset over my situation. I snapped after 3 years of this. I finally had the "fuck it attitude". I mean it didn't much matter if I were on S.S. (special status) or leval 4? I was determined to do whatever I wanted (like step outside onto the porch, you had to be on leval 2 for that!),  to say whatever I wanted, to use the lords name in vain if I wanted. I just gave up, I tried to do the things the right way, and it didn't get me anywhere. I was angry, I was violent, I did things I know hurt people. I found out I was being shipped from one school to another, and I ran. I was gone for a week, and was captured to only have the one and only Karr Farnworth there to pick me up and take me to Cross Creek Manor, where I endured even more abuse. I spent almost a year there, before I ran from there too. This time for good, I never went back. That's it, just wanted you to know a little more about me.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 02:28:00 PM
CCM, you did nothing wrong. You did not deserve any of that treatment. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that for so many years. It was so wrong.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 02:36:00 PM
Wow, CCM. It's me again, I just posted my apology above. I'm so sorry, 12!!! It sounds like your parents were extremely selfish. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to go on a home visit for your only brother's funeral only to be sent away with strangers all over again. I blame your parents for this, shame on them. I hope they will have to answer for what they have done some day. I can't remember if you said you have any sort of relationship with them now. Take care.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 02:59:00 PM
To "it's me again,"..CCM posted that her father is age 85, and that he learned the "truth" about these WWASP programs on Fox News, and finally accepted that his daughter was telling the truth all along. I would suspect that her father has "paid" more than you would realize.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 03:05:00 PM
Well, I do with my Dad who is 85. We finally patched things up when I was around 26 or 27? So, things have been pretty good for the last 6 years. My Mom passed away unexpectally a couple years ago. So, she was not at my wedding which was a month ago (today is our 1 month anniversary). But, I had my Father walk me down the aisle :smile:. He feels sooooo bad about everything that happened. He's come clean, and asked for me to forgive him, and I have. But, I will never forget. Never, ever, ever. At one time I was so angry, I told people he better never come to me when his health is ailing, and he wants to move in with me! I was like, I'll get my revenge then, lock him up in some stinky old folks home, have him the one begging, and pleading to take him home!!! Hahahaha, I am laughing while I am writing this! I was mad, I wanted revenge, but I wouldn't do that to my Dad now. My husband and I are 6 weeks away from having our home completed, it's around 4400 sq. ft. and we are situated on 3 acres. My dad knows if anything should happen, that I will take care of him. I'm more then happy to do that. I love him. But, I don't have a lot of sympathy for these WWASPSies. They haven't come to me, and apologized. They just continue to screw up other peoples lives, and collect a paycheck for doing it.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 03:11:00 PM
CCM: it is great that you have reconciled things with your father. Congratulations on your one-month anniversary, too! Forgiveness is healing. We parents who have been forgiven by our children are truly blessed. Some may not think we deserve such forgiveness, but we are grateful.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
Does anyone know of anybody currently in Cross Creek? Or of anybody who has been recently released? I would love to know what an average day was like for them in there.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 04:44:00 PM
If you key in "Search WWF" to the left and enter Cross Creek---it will direct you to other topics discussing this facility.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 04:49:00 PM
It's telling me that it is unable to connect! Hmmm...........I'll try later on. Thank you for the suggestion though!
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Antigen on October 17, 2005, 05:20:00 PM
Yeay! I get to use my newest little gizmo!

cross creek

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2005, 05:37:00 PM
That's cool Ginger!!
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 17, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
So, nobody ever did tell me what this guy is up to??? Is he off somewhere trying to open up another school? Is he in the middle of court proceedings? Is he relaxing at home in front of the boob tube eating an extra large pizza all to himself? What is he doing?!! Has anyone here come face to face with him, or had a chance to talk to him on the phone, and ask him why he's doing what he's doing. I emailed fox news, and asked them to do a story on all this. I know they have done them before apparently, but I think it's been a while, and this investigation needs to be opened again. If you were to create a timeline of all the events, and drama that has surrounded WWASPS, it could be a real eye opener for all parents out there. This could get interesting.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 18, 2005, 11:09:00 AM
I don't think it's healthy for me to spend as much time as I already have on these type of sites. I get a little sad reliving all this. :smile:
I know they're are kids in these places that are as we speak being abused emotionally, possibly physically, possibly sexually. I hope, and pray for them to stay strong. I know in my heart that the truth will come out about these places. It truely is only a matter of time. :tup:
I respect those of you immensley who do go out, and fight for the rights of these children. They need people fighting for their rights. I will always speak my mind, I will never be ashamed to tell people my story. It's just I can't let my life revolve around all this. It already took too many years, and I can't let it take any more.
If you are not able to change the structure of these WWASP schools, and these guys don't take drastic measures to clean stuff up, then they need to be shut down.
I don't have a problem with them profiting from this type of business. This is America, ya know! I do have a problem with how they are run though. At this point, I don't know if there is any turning back for them though? All the schools they own, all  the changes that need to happen. I'm just not sure they can do it?  :???:

Well everyone, take good care of yourselves.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: kurley on October 19, 2005, 08:12:00 PM
im new here and a grad of one of the programs. i hope i dont step on any toes here as i comment for the first time, i dont know everyone here, but from what im reading i would point this out. i have watched these guys ever since i got out of the program and i have yet to see litchfield convicted of anything, im sure if he was it would have been a real hot topic for some time now. i would hate to see you guys get distracted with this stuff since some of you really do seem to make a lot of sense and have alot of good points. wwasps must have some real good attorneys because i have seen other deals where people make a claim and then caught up in all the other crap and they end up nowhere and tired. stick to the facts and less time on the rumors and other bullshit. i hope this makes some sense since alot of you seem real cool and it is very rare to find a group of other kids that have been trhough the same kind of stuff.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2005, 08:16:00 PM
What facility were you at? How long ago?
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2005, 09:44:00 PM
Kurley, in your opinion what are some of the FACTS rather than "rumors?" Would like to hear from you on that.

Yea, some of the kids that went through the same programs as you are cool that post here.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2005, 09:51:00 PM
You're right about one thing Kurley, they do have the best lawyers..........the best lawyers that hundreds and millions can buy!!!!! :eek:
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2005, 07:27:00 PM
Let me help clarify a few Truthful facts young person that you may not be aware of. RL contributes a substantial amount of money to political parties in the states where he has placed his facilities. The other country too recieves a substantial amount of $$$$$$$$.

Politics and favors    they make the rules.

The attorneys are not impressive from what I had observed. Rude and ignorant really. They have an abundance of money to work with which equates to time and dollars for the people who have made efforts against them.   Not truth. MONEY .

Don't allow yourself to become confused to the reality and truth.  Because he and the others have'nt found themselves in prison yet does'nt me it won't happen.

Criminal behavior will eventually be held accountable.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on November 07, 2005, 12:51:00 PM
I agree that eventually they will be held accountable. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced this is a type of cult. I was in there, and I had no clue what was happening to me. I knew these guys got off on having power over us girls, but when I think of "cults" I thought of weird extreme religous groups where there were willing participants. I was not willing, I had no choice of being there. But, the strange thing is.....even though I was one of the most rebellious girls there.....and spoke my mind the most.....I felt as though it was a turn on for them. I have a love/hate relationship with Bob Lichfield. It's a typical woman thing, we think if we understand the man, we can change the man. He was actually very loving, and giving to me for the majority of the time I was there. Until I threatened to expose our special relationship. Then it got pretty ugly. I guess back then it wasn't as big of a deal, I was 16 he was mid-thirties? I know he wanted me to tour the country with him to talk up the programs. It was going to be my only chance for freedom, and I was going to be able to do whatever I wanted. In the end, I didn't see it coming quickly enough, and I thought he had betrayed my trust. I will never know. Someday, I will take off a week from my life and take a trip down memory lane. At the end, maybe  I will find him.........and I will get some answers.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2005, 12:04:00 AM
Sure hope you don't expect to find any answers from the man, Litchfield himself. You will probably be very disappointed. What happened to you is enormous to you and and your life. But, it may be very sad to discover, it meant little to him. He does not appear to be a nice man at all.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on November 08, 2005, 12:04:00 PM
You're right. What seemed like such a major thing to me, meant nothing to him. He's gone on to start up all these twisted programs, I've just ended up a little more twisted! Hahaha, you know what I mean! I'm sure after my departure he found another girl who was as desperate as me to gain some freedom, and took her around to talk about how great WWASP was. Life is interesting, I have had people from my past pop in, then out. I love that about life! These days everybody can be so easily located. I'm not as good as some people at it though! Usually it's some ex boyfriend or guy that I dated who ends up looking me up. But, I think it's sweet though. Sometimes life just takes you in different directions, but you always wish the best for that person. I always find it very interesting to talk to people from the past. It's never a dull conversation, that's for sure! You get all the highlights of what's been going on with them for the last 5, 10, 15 years of their life! I wish that I was able to get in touch with some of the other girls I was in Cross Creek with. I find it to be quite difficult though since I am sure a lot of them including myself have been married, and their names have changed.
Title: What happened to Bob Lichfield?
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2005, 04:59:00 PM
RL is a BSter who knows nothing about saving the youth of today.