Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: BuzzKill on June 09, 2005, 11:56:00 AM
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To the right - look under veido - look down the list to Tough Love.
Will also run tonight and tomorrow.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74522,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74522,00.html)
OK - I don't know why tjhe link won't disply correctly - try a copy and paste.[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-06-09 08:58 ]
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I find that I can emial the link with no problem - No idea why it won't post correctly - Ginger - any advice?
mean while - just checked - it will copy and paste over just fine.
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-06-09 09:06 ]
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I don't see Tough Love under Video, nothing is there but the jackson trial. HELP!!!
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I just watched it... hearing that mother say, "I'm going to keep her here, absolutely"... this is so insane. I think about what this girl must have been through in the past 5 months, since she was sent away... why do parents fall for this shit? :cry:
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http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.ht ... &-1&wvx-56 (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?060805/fr_mckinley_060805&FOX_Report&Tough%20Love&acc&U.S.%20%26%20World&-1&wvx-56)
Try this link ...
Part 2 of Tough Love airs tonight. Sheppard Smith FOX NEWS
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On 2005-06-09 09:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?060805/fr_mckinley_060805&FOX_Report&Tough%20Love&acc&U.S.%20%26%20World&-1&wvx-56
Try this link ...
Part 2 of Tough Love airs tonight. Sheppard Smith FOX NEWS
"
LOL .. sales pitch by Karr Farnsworth (I think it was) saying Cross Creek Manor cost about the same as a new 50k Infinity ... yeah, right.
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Thats Ken Kay talking about it costing as much as a car.
I have seen that comparison given before. Must be the new justification of the cost - isn't your kid worth as much as a car? must be the idea behind it.
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The WWASP gang love car analogies. Remember that line in the Rocky Mountain News article, where they compared their "treatment" process to the assembly/construction of cars? They really do treat these kids as "products", not as people.
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On 2005-06-09 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just watched it... hearing that mother say, "I'm going to keep her here, absolutely"... this is so insane. I think about what this girl must have been through in the past 5 months, since she was sent away... why do parents fall for this shit? :cry: "
Good question ... one of the reasons is the ed cons and the "free" program referral agencies.
The advocates against this industry have failed to educate the media about the ed cons and the private so-called parents-helping-other-parents websites who are in the business of referring children into programs for A FEE paid by the referred PROGRAM.
Until that practice is regulated and/or stopped this industry will continue to flourish.
Second reason is parents don't know any better. Someone tells them they "feel their pain" and the parents are so relieved they buy into "solution" even if they have to mortgage their home to the hilt.
Third reason .. TROUBLED PARENTS. Too many control freak parents are using these programs to punish their kids for not living up to their demands and expectations. If parents would be more honest about their own "issues", these programs would not be crammed full of teens.
Fourth Reason ... the tough love movement ... I'm gonna love you till it hurts ... it's all bullshit ... a racket. Parents are just dumb enough to believe that crap.
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Great find Buzzkill!!
We will be watching for it tonight.
Thanks.
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On 2005-06-09 09:58:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Thats Ken Kay talking about it costing as much as a car.
I have seen that comparison given before. Must be the new justification of the cost - isn't your kid worth as much as a car? must be the idea behind it."
Good Point. What's scary is WWASPS is all about "engineering" the minds of teens .... to fit their warped moral and RELIGIOUS standards. I would never send my kid to Utah knowing what I now know about what's really going on in these programs. Ditto any faith-based locked program.
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The first segment mentioned something about a group of families who have gotten together and are filing a DIRECT ACTION CLASS LAWSUIT.
Anybody know anything about this?
Is this that same PURE thing we heard about last year?
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I am not Positive - but I expect this has to do with Henry Bushkin's cases. If so, then PURE has nothing to do with it. Altho Sue was involved at one time, she no longer is.
I think she is working with David Pollack on some Florida cases. She has got notices up on a couple forums to that effect.
I guess this could be about David's cases - I think he has filed already - but again, I am not certain.
Maybe they'll tell us more tonight.
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The tricky thing about Kay's comment is that it is not equivalent to the cost of a G35 Infinity.
That price is PER YEAR. And how many years?
Anyone know the percentages... X% there a year, two years, three years, longer?
I know it varies, and probably based on the parents ability to pay, but it would be interesting to know.
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Based on my BBS experaince - I would say the average is two years.
Your right it does varrie a good deal - but that seemed to be the average length of time it took to graduate.
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On 2005-06-09 11:05:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"I am not Positive - but I expect this has to do with Henry Bushkin's cases. If so, then PURE has nothing to do with it. Altho Sue was involved at one time, she no longer is.
I think she is working with David Pollack on some Florida cases. She has got notices up on a couple forums to that effect.
I guess this could be about David's cases - I think he has filed already - but again, I am not Tcertain.
Maybe they'll tell us more tonight.
"
Many thanks BK .. I think I do remember seeing a post on the internet (or Fornits) about David Pollack looking for clients wanting to sue Lynne Pretzfeld (sp?) or something like that. Are these the cases you are talking about? I thought LP was a WWASPS recruiter?
:???:
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On 2005-06-09 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just watched it... hearing that mother say, "I'm going to keep her here, absolutely"... this is so insane. I think about what this girl must have been through in the past 5 months, since she was sent away... why do parents fall for this shit? :cry: "
Because it's very convincing! They send off a kid who's angry or distant and who, to their way of thinking, is certainly trying hard to mess up or end their lives. The next time they see the kid, they're docile and extremely happy to see them and are saying just what the parent wants to hear. The parent doesn't see how that came to happen. They don't "see" a kid dancing for their very life. They're constantly sold on this Utopian fantasey and they want to believe it.
Worked for the Nazis, too.
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
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What time? Please post. Thanks.
Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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the host said 'tune in tomorrow for part 3, the darker side of tough love programs'. Anyone know when this comes on???
The car reference was ridiculous. The seminar guy of course was talking about 'healthy choices' a wwasp keyword they use. Overall, it brought back memories and made me want to throw up, but I think it's good people are talking about it. What I'm really hoping for is some disgruntled student to go postal on Ken. ::unhappy::
PS: WHAT WAS THAT CRAP ABOUT WWASP BEING A NONPROFIT ARE THEY KIDDING????
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On 2005-06-09 11:20:00, Deborah wrote:
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The tricky thing about Kay's comment is that it is not equivalent to the cost of a G35 Infinity.
That price is PER YEAR. And how many years?
Anyone know the percentages... X% there a year, two years, three years, longer?
I know it varies, and probably based on the parents ability to pay, but it would be interesting to know."
he forgot to add in the post-treatment costs. for example, exit counseling once the kid and parents figure out what really happened. or, if no one figures it out, or the exit counseling doesn't help, figure in court costs for legal troubles, years of poverty because the kid can't deal socially so they don't keep jobs, homelessness from paranoia, the cost of legal or illegal medications to treat the intense inner persecution and pain experienced by many victims of brainwashing techniques, etc.
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TIME - anyone know what time this will be aired on FOX?
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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If its on Shephard Smiths show that is at 7pm ET
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// .. I think I do remember seeing a post on the internet (or Fornits) about David Pollack looking for clients wanting to sue Lynne Pretzfeld (sp?) or something like that. Are these the cases you are talking about? I thought LP was a WWASPS recruiter? //
I havn't seen it on Fornits, but its up on other boards. Two I know of.
Frankly, I am not sure David Pollack knows anything about those posts. I do a little doubt it. Sue has a way of getting excited and taking such matters into her own hands. I know Henry was angry with her when she posted something similar about his case.
I've not ever seen anything actually from David Pollack's office. But I do know he is representing some TB students. He was on Montel with the girl whoes jaw was broken. Her case has been filed, I'm sure.
I don't myself know much about Lynn P. I have heard she transports kids and also that she sells the program.
// PS: WHAT WAS THAT CRAP ABOUT WWASP BEING A NONPROFIT ARE THEY KIDDING???? //
I can't get over that non profit business. How can they get away with that?
// he forgot to add in the post-treatment costs. for example, exit counseling once the kid and parents figure out what really happened. or, if no one figures it out, or the exit counseling doesn't help, figure in court costs for legal troubles, years of poverty because the kid can't deal socially so they don't keep jobs, homelessness from paranoia, the cost of legal or illegal medications to treat the intense inner persecution and pain experienced by many victims of brainwashing techniques, etc. //
Write Fox and point this out.
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// PS: WHAT WAS THAT CRAP ABOUT WWASP BEING A NONPROFIT ARE THEY KIDDING???? //
Buzzkill, it sounds like you just don't understand what a "non-profit" corporation is.
Non profit corps are forbidden from passing profits to the stockholders. There is nothing that would preclude the officers from making huge salaries and having big benefit packages.
For instance, The director could conceivably take a 300,000 per year salary with a housing allowance, an expensive car and paid expense account. This would not disqualify their "non-profit" status. They could put family on the payroll with big salaries as well.
"non-profit" doesn't mean no one is making any money.
Not even close.
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I understand that.
Plenty of non profits have top dogs getting rich.
But I recall Jay Kay talking about the share holders (on the BBC interview)
And I am confused at how a non profit can have share holders - because shareholders get a percentage of the *profit* - Right?
Or maybe I don't understand.
But in any event - it does seem obscene for wwasp to be called non profit - as if they are some kind of charity or philanthropic organization.
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WWASPS, IIRC, is just the umbrella orginization that does marketing and whatnot. I suppose the actual programs themselves pocket the cash?
I dunno. But I do know that investment in a program is probably a good idea considering how insanely high the revenue is relative to cost :roll: When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
-- Quentin Crisp
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Did anyone see the second part? I missed it.
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I can't find a video clip of it on the Fox website either. They seem to have given us just the first half as a taster.
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Yeah, everyone is having that problem with the web site.
There is a link for contacting Fox Reports - write and ask that the other two segments put up for viewing.
I'm trying to find out about getting a copy and if I do I'll let ya'll know.
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Just saw part 3 .. it was about the investigation into Ivy Ridge and Congressman Miller.
Ken Kay kids lie.
What else is knew?
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I'd really love to see this - what day and time - or is it on-going.
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It's there. Click on US & World. On the right hand of the screen is the topic "Overkill". That's the segment on Tranquility Bay.
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Does anyone have a link to part 2?
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http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.ht ... &-1&wvx-56 (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?060905/fr_mckinley_060905&FOX_Report&Overkill?&acc&U.S.%20%26%20World&-1&wvx-56)
try this link
[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2005-06-11 08:17 ]
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Thanks for the link. Using pepper spray on the kids. How sick.
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Ineresting how the pepper spray thing hasn't happened in a lot of years and it was only used on a violent kid or two instead of restraint. Didn't they decide real fast that it wasn't a good thing? Mistakes happen - apparently they learned from the mistake.
Wasn't pepper spray being used in other programs and juvenile detention around that time as well?
PHX
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On 2005-06-11 11:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ineresting how the pepper spray thing hasn't happened in a lot of years and it was only used on a violent kid or two instead of restraint. Didn't they decide real fast that it wasn't a good thing? Mistakes happen - apparently they learned from the mistake.
Wasn't pepper spray being used in other programs and juvenile detention around that time as well?
PHX
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The fact that pepper spray was used at all is a bad sign. And the fact that other programs were doing it is an irrelevant and childlish excuse ("yeah, I cheated on my test, but, look, johnny did it too!!").
I don't believe Pepper Spray Jay ever stopped macing kids. He's say whatever lies he needs to say to make himself look good, but it's still lies, and nothing can change that. God have mercy on these poor children.
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They soaked Layne in Pepper spray. They doused him with it. He was so soaked with the caustic stuff it burnt his skin and left him scared.
If they stoped, this is why - it left proof of the abuse, and they can't have that.
And where do you get the idea this kid was violent? His tomentors? And you believe them?
Whos the fukked in the head fool here?
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On 2005-06-11 11:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ineresting how the pepper spray thing hasn't happened in a lot of years and it was only used on a violent kid or two instead of restraint. Didn't they decide real fast that it wasn't a good thing? Mistakes happen - apparently they learned from the mistake.
Wasn't pepper spray being used in other programs and juvenile detention around that time as well?
PHX
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Are you fucking kidding??! Do a little more research and read a bit more.. and you will find some students had been pepper sprayed many times DAILY for MONTHS. Learned from their mistakes? You mean they got caught, and had to deal with bad press. They just keep getting more secret is all. Learned from their mistakes.. lol.. thanks for the laugh.
Even the most violent, shit throwing crazed prisoners in the US rarely get pepper sprayed, and when they do the officers record it on tape. Who the fuck sends their kid to a THIRD WORLD country to be pepper sprayed by some local person working for a few dollars a day??!! Program parents, that's who! Sick fucks, they need to be pepper sprayed themselves before they start apologizing and making excuses. YOU MAKE ME SICK
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PHX, here's an interesting question. How many WWASP graduates have scars on their chins?
I just planted a ticking time bomb in your head. Mwooohahahaha! Now that you've thought about it, you'll have a much harder time unseeing it. Scars on their chins. So many of them. How did they get there?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
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Saw the series.
Glad to see the negative publicity. However, this article in my opinion makes the same mistake almost all the publicity makes,including the Montel show.
That is, they hyperfocus of the abuse, and not the overall techniques and mind control issues including isolation, ego destruction and then the rebuilding of the individual in the image of the group.
This aspect of the program is largely ignored by the press, and in my opinion is the most damning, far far worse than a scar on someone's chin or a broken leg. This physc damage caused to 10s of thousands of kids goes unrecognized in this society.
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On this we agree compleatly.
I think the problem is the time it takes to explain all that - the news networks are addicted to the sound bite - the two minute story.
But still - you never know what something like this could lead to.
Write Fox and explain what you wrote here - and maybe they'll do a documentary.
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BTW - a scar on the chin and a few chemical burns is the least of what was done to Layne.
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Greg, the problem is that people dont "Get" that what you described is the most damaging.
A lot of the nation would go "pshaw, sissies!" or some other similar reaction, or just simply NOT GET IT. People are largely stupid. Plus, a lot of tough love proponents are FOR it.
Physical abuse of the extreme degree that is focued on, people do understand, and people do disagree with, so its the most shown. Lowest common denominator, yanno? Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
James Madison
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On 2005-06-11 13:22:00, Antigen wrote:
"PHX, here's an interesting question. How many WWASP graduates have scars on their chins?
I just planted a ticking time bomb in your head. Mwooohahahaha! Now that you've thought about it, you'll have a much harder time unseeing it. Scars on their chins. So many of them. How did they get there?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
"
I've met and know a lot of kids from several of the schools. Not one of them has a scar on their chin. Maybe i just didn't meet the right one.
PHX
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Maybe not all have been physically abused in that specific manner?
Hyperfocusing on a scar to disprove accusations of PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE *which leaves no visible scars* or of painful or even damaging joint manipulation, which leaves no external injuries, is stupid.
But at any rate, Its rather pointless to discuss this with you at all, you'll simply deny anything and dodge any proof offered.Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the
tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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On 2005-06-11 13:22:00, Antigen wrote:
"PHX, here's an interesting question. How many WWASP graduates have scars on their chins?
I just planted a ticking time bomb in your head. Mwooohahahaha! Now that you've thought about it, you'll have a much harder time unseeing it. Scars on their chins. So many of them. How did they get there?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
"
holy shit!
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Yeah, PHx. You never noticed them. Now you will. You'll be helpless to. Like someone w/ dentures always spots others who wear them. Mwoohahaha!
But yeah, the physical stuff is not the worst of it. It is an indication, though, of the type of environment we're talking about. In the real world, most fights go about two punches. That's it. Nobody's slugging it out, round after round, unless they're getting paid in an exhibition setting. In the Program world, it's different. Getting maced several times per day for days at a stretch must suck a whole lot. But not as much as having this sort of treatment wittnessed by a bunch of people who all react (or don't react) asif this is perfectly good and right. I'm guessing Lane knows just what I mean.
Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
James Madison
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On 2005-06-11 11:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ineresting how the pepper spray thing hasn't happened in a lot of years and it was only used on a violent kid or two instead of restraint. Didn't they decide real fast that it wasn't a good thing? Mistakes happen - apparently they learned from the mistake.
Wasn't pepper spray being used in other programs and juvenile detention around that time as well?
PHX
"
Again, another thoughtless and obtuse comment from PHX.
Listen, dummy, there's such a thing as "reasonable expectation." Any normal, fully functioning adult can reasonably expect that pepper-spraying a child repeatedly, daily and chronically can't be a "good thing." They shouldn't need to "try it out and see what happens."
Acccording to your "logic" I could beat you about the head and neck horribly and to a bloody pulp because I am unhappy with your commentary. And, as long as I realized AFTER your terrible beating that it was not a "good thing" to do, as you say, well, then that's just dandy.
Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter as long as I have an epiphany aftwerward in which I realize I've done "a bad thing."
So, let's use your "logic" on you, shall we?
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way.
I PROMISE I'll ultimately realize the error of my ways and won't do it to anyone else after you, ok?
So that squares the deal, right? I didn't think so.