Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 10, 2005, 06:58:00 PM
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[Confidential material deleted]
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is this email from JOYCE HARRIS excuse me the famous joyce harris. She is really getting off on this. is this her new job. didnt she get fired from her old job because her daughter ZIT turned her in for abuse 3 times? call the san antonio police dept. JOYCE baby help you out has the number in her little black book. miss educaated organized mother that she isnt
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wow... sounds like we have been getting the runaround eh? joyce who are you trying to kid. you said you are throwing your hands up that you are tired. guess you got your second wind eh? arent we lucky. you have been waisting our time.
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idelness brings about idolatry and increase in iniquity. there is something holy about work even in times of plenty, it is a neccessaity. while work is not all of life, it nevertheless can keep us mindful of our blessings
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are you saying that any 18 year old that spends as much time that this little girl leah is must be one lazy kid. does grandma pay for her living. sounds like it. hey grams why did you leave her there for so long if you think the suds are so bad. how many years did you think little leah was soooooooobad? sounds like the only one who loved her then was the suds. maybe you have sexual abuse mixed up with love.
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hey i lived with Leah. ya she was mixed up on sexual deals. she thought you were supposed to screw every guy in jeans. where would she have learned this concept grandma? some good example you are.
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sounds like the whitmore had some winners. are we saying the sudweeks? abused these winners?
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THIS IS CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY!
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misery may crave company but darkness detests light
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As a fellow parent of a child who went to Whitmore, I am appallaed and outraged that a private email containing a parent's concerns was made public for all to see. I can only conclude that Mark or Cheryl made this email available from their personal email. This is an outrageous and desperate attempt to discredit Joyce Harris. Not to mention, it totally violates all rules of patient confidentiality! I honestly hope that anyone who ever doubted the accounts of events stated by past students and parents now believes the abusive abilities of those housed at the Whitmore Mansion. I shudder to think of what personal files and information concerning my child are readily available to be published at a moments notice. This act is absolutely unconscionable! I am sure that an attorney will use this to the fullest extent. I have completely lost every shred of respect for Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks. God help you both and anyone caught in their web.
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We can only say that this is the most dispicable, dishonorable, if not ILLEGAL act we have ever encountered. We have turned this over to our attorney, and our family therapist, and Zita's private psychariatrist. We hold the Sudweeks totally, and legally responsible for all damages caused by the printing of this confidential material.
This CONFIDENTIAL EMAIL was written to Mark Sudweeks, as the Director of Whitmore Academy, in an attempt to address issues about our daughter that needed to be addressed in her therapy with her professional therapist at Whitmore Academy, David. This most certainly was never to be printed in a public forum. This email resulted from a family therapy session with her therapist, David.
This should be a MESSAGE TO ALL PARENTS WHO EVER HAD A CHILD AT WHITMORE ACADEMY OR WHO HAS ONE THERE NOW: Your confidential records at Whitmore Academy will be printed in a public forum by the Sudweeks---- if you speak out against any abuses by the Sudweeks against your child! We have filed charges of mental, emotional, physical, and sexual abuse against Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks. This is thier choice of retaliation against us. This behavior by the Sudweeks is deplorable.
This Betrayal of Confidentiality will be reported to Dr. Patti Harrington at the Utah Office of Education, Mr. Jared Eldridge, the County Attorney, Mr. Alan Sevison of the Attorney Generals Office, Fraser Nelson of the Utah Disability Law Center-- and whoever else we are advised by our attoreny to contact.
Formal complaints will be filed by our attorney.
This outrageous behavior will not be tolerated.
Richard and Joyce Harris 3/10/05
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This is another slanderous LIE.
Please keep them coming.
I have not had a job since 1997. We adopted Zita in 1998.
Joyce Harris
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in my new opinion, you are obviously embarrassed by the truths that you seemed ot have written yet wanted everyone to think was opposite. i am against the confidential letter being posted, but it seems like it almost had to be since joyce is so out of control. i don't even know this program, but the lunacy is obvious and it is only her and maybe one other unhappy person. where i come from there are tons of unhappy students. if you do have a lawyer i am really shocked he lets you write all this stuff. i do feel sorry for you.
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truth hurts. i think you should stop joyce and think about healing. this cannot be healthy for you. stop referring us all back to some isac, it is meaningless. think about your kid and your family, move forward. the things you wrote in that letter to the school are terrible. if your kid called cps on you twice, well, something is not right here. that letter, that was confidential, really speaks clearly.
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This is the same kind of tactic used by the Sudweeks with Leah. What she told Tim Lowe, in so-called counseling sessions was then told to Cheryl, who then acted on it in some way to humuliate or reprimand her. Total violation of privacy. The things the Sudweeks are now doing on this site have nothing to do with the investigation for FRAUD, ABUSE or anything else. They have still not answered the simple questions that have been posed to them. This is just a way for them to skirt around the issue. It really doesn't supprise me -- I was personally told by Cheryl that people in Canada and Mexico were trying to kill them. I was personally told by Cheryl that the Mexicans had killed all of their horses. I was personally told by Cheryl that someone in Canada killed all their horses up there.
Well, we know that is not the case in Canada. It is also untrue in Mexico. I was in Mexico. I was in the town where the Sudweeks have a house. I talked with people in the area and in the town. People knew who they were. I heard the same story from them all -- they had taken one or more of the kids into the country illegally -- was one of the problems -- they were given 12 hours to leave the country by the government.
What any of the kids at Whitmore now or at another time did to cause their parents to put them at the Whitmore has nothing to do, again, with the ABUSE and LIES told by the Sudweeks. They simply do not and did not provide the services they claimed they did. THAT SPELLS SCAM TO ME!!!
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The truth is what seems to be hurting the Sudweeks. The very teachings of their chosen church spells out exactly how it stands on Lesbians and Gays. Not only are homosexuals excommunicated from the Mormon church, they are then "turned over to Satan."
IF Cheryl Sudweeks IS formally charged with the allegations of sexual abuse, and IF she is found guilty of sexual abuse against this young girl, then Cherly Sudweeks has a lot more people to answer to than the legal authorities. She will have to answer to her own church officials.
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didn't YOU state earlier in another post that your computer had been violated?
ever think, this could be a direct result?
btw; what happened to the email?
censorship; fornuts? private emails have been posted before?
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joyce one thing you should remember that my mother taught me, is if you are going to be a good liar you need to have a good memory. your really blowing it. but of course that wouldnt embarrass you nothing seems to. just quit dragging your kid into this, for your own satisfaction. shes got it bad enough just having you for a mom. can you imagine. when do you spend time with your family. you are all over this website. are you looking for attention? you need a shrink. doubt you could find one whod put up with you eeech
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Never saw this mom post her child's name. She refers to her as "daughter." She doesn't seem to be a liar, either. Time will tell.
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hey please pull your head out and look in the mirror. you are the only thing dispicable Joyce Harris. what are you going to do when the whole truth is told. to bad you cant put it on public display. i guess the truth hurts tooo much. you better get over yourself and see that its all going to come out. why dont you do us all a favor and quit before you dragg more innocent people in it. remember there was alot of us who know everything we lived with zita. she told us about you. i heard you tell her you were going to "march her down to the a.g. office in the morning and she would tell them what you wanted". and if she didnt she was going to jail. all because you were mad she liked us better than you. she didnt have your picture in her room and not because sheral took it. maybe she didnt like you. she told all of us. mama did the spanking and daddy did the beatings and how much trouble she got into at school because she told s.s. that you hit her. she was so confussed. especially about the victoria secret clothes and you know what i mean. you nasty old lady. and yes i saw you push her down the stairs in front of you. and you slapped one of the girls here. maybe not on purpose but out of anger and yes Zita ran desperately back into the mansion from your car and clung to Alex. and begged us not to let her go. when we told the police we were worried about Zitas life they said a social worker would come and talk to us. nobody ever came even after we called the second time. your right it was officer wright and if he has any integrety he will do the report right. he never even did one till you called to get one to put on the internet. you have manipulated this too long. the sudweeks wont let us kids get on this sight. but we love them and want the truth to be known. you are lieing your head off. and then the truth is posted and that lady takes it off. there is so much more that people dont know. i dont even think Zita knows because she wouldnt do this to us. did that make you mad? this place changes lifes and you dont care. you are scarey, you are a spoiled old lady. who is determined to get your own way, at everyones cost. even your little zita. you have her scared to death. some one needs to check you out and good. how come when zita was investigated the first time there was no problem. how did you get the state to fly the police to texas. how are getting anybody to listen to you? you are just too weird for me i cant believe any one believes you. are you going to take this down too?
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We wanted thank Ginger Warbis for removing the confidential information regarding our daughter's psychological communication at Whitmore from this site. This dispicable act has been reported to every authority in Utah, and to our personal medical authority agencies in Texas and to our attorney.
The email to Mark Sudweeks was sent in his role as the Director of the School to address our daughter's Reactive Attention Disorder, and was laying out the symptoms of she has from this disorder and examples of behavior. The email was generated by a Telephone Family Session with Zita and her therapist,David, at Whitmore because of her hygiene, a symptom of RAD, which was not being monitored by Cheryl Sudweeks, which was part of our request prior to enrolling our daughter.
Despite the horrific accusations on this site, neither me, nor my husband have ever sexually or physically abused our daughter. I have not been reported to Child Protective Services for any abuse against my daughter. Any false allegations against me, another classic symptom of RAD, were told to a teacher at school, and were taken care of on that level.
We enrolled our daughter at Whitmore because the Sudweeks advertised on Who Am I Discovery, and on the Lon Woodbury Site, and because Sue Scheff of P.U.R.E assured us that they specialized in "attachment disorders." The Sudweeks also advertised that they ran a FULLY ACCREDITED academic boarding school with certified teachers, that included an Equine Horse Therapy Program, and weekly one-on-one Therapy and daily group Therapy with a licensed Therapist.
Publishing this Confidential and Private information regarding our daughter's psychological and health issues was and is wrong. Any person who puts themselves in the position of running a "school" of any type must honor confidentiality and must be held to this standard by every Agency that monitors them, from the Utah Office of Education down to each and every parent. I would think that the greatest supporter of Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks would look them in the face and say "This is wrong, no child deserves that."
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The "WHOLE TRUTH" will come out, and no I will not quit until it does.
My daughter did not "LIVE" with you there. She was a student going to school. She lives at home. There is a big difference in being a student and living with someone.
I never said I would take my daughter to the "AG's office." Until this episode, I did not even know what an "AG" was. And I do not talk that way anyway. I call it the "Attorney General's Office, because I show respect to that office.
I never touched any student there. That is ANOTHER LIE.
NO POLICE from Utah came to Texas. You are just misinformed again. You have no idea who came from Utah and took my daughter's formal statement regarding the Sudweeks' abusive behaviors, now do you?
As far as the illegal information that you have available that has been stolen off of my computer system---well that is just another little criminal activity that SOMEONE will have to answer for isn't it?
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hey crazy lady are you talking to yourself. looks like youve lost your credibility. dont you get it. its 8 peoples word against yours. they heard what they heard and saw what they saw.
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I do believe the only person's WORD that means anything is Offier Wright's, especially in a Court of Law. Enough said on the subject.
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you have got one right on Joyce. what makes you think he is as bad as you. hell tell the truth. but i am sure you wont recognize it.
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just because the letter is not here, how do you know pple haven't copied it from last night. i saw it and may have it. if pple want it, it tells the ugly truth about joyce. i can't help but say agian, if joyce loves her kid, why would she expose her like this! it is so sick for a parent to do this to her child. lady, i sure hope zita doesnt know what you are doing to her on this forum. truth or not, it is very sad for her.
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Joyce Harris did not publish that, the Sudweeks camp did, and it was wrong, wrong, wrong.
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please i think it has been established the sudweeks are the good guys here.
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wrong, wrong wrong. yes it was probably wrong, but it certainly cleared up who the real joyce harris is. furthermore, if it was false, and not accurate, why remove it? obviously joyce didnt like the real truth behind her version of truth out there. i saw it, joyce, it seems you need some serious help. still in shock your lawyer is allowing all your postings.
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Not from my perspective. Remember Joey, Hannah, Camille.....just to name a few. I don't know Joey or Camille, but I do know Hannah. It makes me sick that someone would abuse and hurt such a sweet girl. And Joey -- nothing justifies what was done to him or any of the kids that were abused. NOTHING!!!!!
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Joyce give it up, you lost! IT's okay, you can't win all the battles. I guess you'll have better luck next time, but for now, give it up, Mark and cheryl and the whitmore are good guys, they are honest people, That email you wrote to them was absured, I have one thing to say to you, " I see your true colors shinin' through."
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And oh boy do they shine bright. especially in that email that you can all still get a hold of. IT MAY BE WRONG TO POST THAT EMAIL BUT ITS WRONG ALL THE LIES JOYCE HARRIS IS SAYING ABOUT THE SUDWEEKS.!!!! EVERYONE BETTER THINK ABOUT THIS BEFORE THEY EVER BELIEVE JOYCE!!!
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THE MASK IS REVEALED...after all...good attracts good and bad.....well bad just does not prevail.
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Joyce Harris does not lie. Mark Sudweeks lied in Canada courts. He lied to Shelby Earnhardt at ISAC. He is a confirmed, proven liar.
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OOOKKKK WHATEVER, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT, READ THAT EMAIL, MARK IS NO LIER. JOYCE IS A LIER, AND YOUR A LIER TO SAY SHE ISNT. REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS.
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i still think it is funny they seem to think this isac thing has some authority. i see no credentials or resume of the pple there. who are they? much like this site, just pple sharing information. joyce and others act like isac is some powerful thing. maybe in the bible, which i have no clue.
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The independent ISAC that put Whitmore on "Watch" status to any parents looking Whitmore up on the internet, has a bit of influence in the teen industry busness, don't think otherwise.
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influence? on what? who are they to influence anyone? i am not being difficult, but after looking at the site thoroughly, they are like this. just information. they don't hold any authoritive control. so giving them a statement means what? means you got something off your chest. okay. where/who is the person with authority to make the difference? i dont see it.
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Then don't worry about it then. If Whitmore doesn't mind being on "Watch Status" then everything is just fine. Ignore these people.
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i am not worried at all, i am curious. i have no beef in this fight, just trying to understand it. to be on a watch list in a group like this is really means nothing. but if it were some government or something of authority, then you believe it. my only point was that the isac is nothing and the mother keeps referring to it like it is a bible or means something to make her more believeable.
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I think the value of ISAC is their independence.
That, along with their excellent research and reporting.
The ISAC statement does add to the credibility of the Harris statement, b/c ISAC has followed up, and made the calls to confirm what is said, and found that of the two very different statements, its the Harris version thats supported by the authorities involved.
Whitmore supporters were very happy to go on about the "police report" supporting their version of events (with no complaints of police "hate")until ISAC pointed out the report didn't even yet exist; and didn't support their version once written.
Then we get the blasting of the cops for being biased and Hating Whitmore -
Come on -
Open your eyes!
But anyway - as I said, ISAC has a great deal of credibility and I think we should all be very thankful for that.
I personally feel that ISAC is an invaluable resource and I think it is inevitable that they will be increasingly effective in holding the troubled teen industry accountable and educating families.
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dear ms. buzzkill,
i think you are being extremely niave,and i dont mean this as a insult. isac is not a authority nor does it have authority. it is just as good as this forum, fornits. we are all pple telling our story. no one at that isac, that i see, have credentials or of any authority. so why take there word? no reason. as far as the harris statement, you are sadly mistaken. if you saw or read that confidential letter that joyce wrote to mark, you would know there is much she is not telling. if it wasn't true, why did fornits delete it? yes, it is confidential, but i have read many private things here. seems joyce can throw mud, but when it comes back, she refers to isac. bfd. really. i am sure isac is good but they are not a solid resouce. not by far. fornit is just as solid as them, as struggling teens. try not to be fooled buzz, seems you are being sucked in. have you ever been to this place? just curious. i haven't and as i said, have no beef with them or joyce, but joyce's insanity is rampant for sure.
curious buzz, do you think zita would like what her mother has done here? exposing her and the alleged abuse? sick, and you supporting it is very questionable.
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buzzkill,
dont get angry, but i found your website http://www.wwaspinfo.com (http://www.wwaspinfo.com) which also promotes isac and asks for donations? are you also funded by them? why else do you think a website like isac, fornits, or struggling teens makes a story true? it doesn't. you believe someone did fact checking? really? after the visit to the school, what were the facts? or didn't they visit it? is it hearsay from a source? i guess i am having a hard time understanding it all. i don't see fornits asking for donations? now if isac was a governmental office or even dss, but i dont think it is. i dont see anything that shows authority on there. just reports that god knows who reported. was it by a authoritive person? i don't see any there. help me understand.
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I stand by my post.
You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am, and on this we differ.
As you well know, I have never been there. I suspect you have. . . It matters not. Look how many have been to TB and swear no abuse takes place. . . Being an occasional visitor in no way imparts any knowledge of what takes place day to day. Does it?
As for ISAC and credentials; what credentials would you have them have? They are survivors of the kind of program we are most concerned with halting, and so their insight is extremely valuable - I don't know how you get a credential for that tho.
As for the deleted post - I do believe it contained personal and private information about a minor that no one had any right to make public. Right?
Seems like deleting it was the only decent thing to do. Much the way ISAC deleted personal and private information from the WWASP vs PURE transcripts. It was the decent thing to do.
'Bout this:
i am sure isac is good but they are not a solid resource. not by far. fornit is just as solid as them, as struggling teens.
You can't be serious, can you? I mean there is no comparison at all. Fornits is an open forum in which anyone can say most anything and it is left up to the reader to filter and fact find, or ignore, as the case may be. ST.com is (as you well know) highly biased and severely moderated. They are in no way independent of the programs they promote and sell - that is their very reason for being.
Thus I am back to once again pointing out, the value of ISAC is their independence and research skills.
'Bout this:
do you think zita would like what her mother has done here? exposing her and the alleged abuse? sick, and you supporting it is very questionable.
I have no notion what the kid thinks. Its none of my business; nor yours.
Exposing her? I haven't seen anything from the Harriss' I would classify that way. From the Whitmore - that's a different story - and a deplorable one too, I might add.
My supporting it? As far as I am concerned, what Joyce and GMom are doing is exactly the same thing I often do. Me and a lot of others I know. We tell our story to help educate and support others who have been lied to and manipulated by a program for troubled teens. Of corse I support it.
If I had reason to think she were lying, things would be different. If, after looking at the available evidence, I thought the Whitmore was being unfairly and untruthfully described - I would say so. But that is not the case.
However, luckily for the Whitmore, I have no credentials and so I don't matter.
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Authority? The only authority I'm really interested in invoking is that of the IVth Estate and that of the free market. I'm a firm believer in letting the buyer beware. That's all I'm trying to do here, just let anyone with an opinion have their peace.
What's your angle? What's your interest in the Whitmore?
The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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hi antigen,
i have no connection, i am just parent that has been there done that, and honestly, not employed right now, so been spending a lot of time on the net. obviously, i am not the most computer literate, and i have to learn to type better.
what bothers me about this thread, is the poor child. weather she was abused or not i am not to judge, but i feel that the mother, joyce, is totally exploiting her. it is like the mother craves all this attention. when i had issues with my child, and believe me we had a lot, i would never dream to her there name here and the personal details. god forbid that child get on the net and see all this. god knows some is really ugly.
i am not sure you have kids or not, but i would hope you wouldn't do this to them. i feel for the child, that is all i can really say.
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Then take it up with the Sudweeks, they should have never have revealed this child's name, NOR should they keep posting titles with this child's name in it. Why don't they stop?
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If you people see Joyce Harris as an "attention seeker" then why do you keep giving her TITLES on this site? Why not just ignore her and make her go away?
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If Joyce Harris is just a liar, and nothing she says matter, why argue with her? Why give her a chance to say anything. You are just promoting her. How dumb is that?
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ummm, god help you. your the one who should realize that that emai lhad to be put up, how else are we going to let everyone know her true colors??
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GOD HELP YOU, nothing justifies that, nor the fact that a law was broken, but that doesn't seem to factor in, does it? Bet it will later.
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On 2005-03-11 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"hi antigen,
i have no connection, i am just parent that has been there done that, and honestly, not employed right now, so been spending a lot of time on the net. obviously, i am not the most computer literate, and i have to learn to type better.
what bothers me about this thread, is the poor child. weather she was abused or not i am not to judge, but i feel that the mother, joyce, is totally exploiting her. it is like the mother craves all this attention. when i had issues with my child, and believe me we had a lot, i would never dream to her there name here and the personal details. god forbid that child get on the net and see all this. god knows some is really ugly.
i am not sure you have kids or not, but i would hope you wouldn't do this to them. i feel for the child, that is all i can really say."
I do have kids. And I understand what you're saying, believe me! I'd have to go back and look to be absolutely certain, but I think the first person to drop this girl's (unusual) first name was someone posting from the Whitmore. And you have to admit that Harris is a pretty damned common name, so would probably never have come back on the kid if it had been left at that.
But then there were all the other really horrible posts about a couple of the kids who have either made complaints to the police or posted less than flattering things about the Whitmore.
And when I say "less than flattering", I mean just that! No one has described anything half as frightening as we routinely hear about some of these programs. It's also not shaping up to look quite like the pretty website they used to have. And, according to some of the parents, it's not what they agreed to pay for when the edcon sold them the program, either.
The thing about the horses is a little disturbing. But it also seems to be about negligence and incompetence, not so much intentional, sadistic torment. Just look over some of the claims about CEDU schools and how they employ animals in their 'therapeutic' programs. :eek: And those claims are coroborated by former employees, not just allegedly troubled kids.
It's all very telling about what kind of program the Whitmore offers and what kind of people the Sudweeks are. But I don't see anything here that tells a story that warrants the level of threats and intimidation we're seeing here. Do you?
I mean, if someone wants their kid to learn to behave the way we're seeing Whitmore defenders behave here, then by all means, that probably does beat hell out of 18 straight months on their faces under threat of serious physical injury! But they ought to know what they're getting.
All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race - before it had learned the obligations to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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hi antigen,
my only concern really, is about the child. there is a lot uglyness here. i am embarrass to say, but that is why i kept reading it all and was totoally blown away. has much mud that has been slung, all i can think about is how can this mother, joyce, exploit this child and continue to air her complaints. take them to the lawyer, protect the child. children first! she is a very selfish lady from what ihave read. i read that note she sent to the shcool and honestly, it could probably be written by many parents. i think most of us have seen troubled times, we are here arent we.
but most disturbing is this mother totally wont stop about the sexual abuse, mental, physical and whatever else she is claiming. most normal people know you take it to the lawyers first.
in my defense i read a posting that had a phone number for the ag severson. the post said to call to confirm the abuse or the allegations. since i am home doing nothing, curiousity got the best of me, i called. nothing in the conversation backed up one thing joyce has said. nothing. this was the ag! they are who files criminal charges, and nothing, nothing is pending and nothing is filed.
in my opinion, joyce needs to take care of her own mental being as well as try to take care of that young child. i just feel for that child. no matter who was the first one to post the child's name, joyce certainly provoked it all. you have to admit it. she is not stopping. i am intrigued, but it is out of the feelings of sadness for zita. the other ridiculous thing the mother, joyce, keeps saying, read isac! who cares about them? i did care about the ag's office, now that is credible. can isac defend zita in a court room? can isac offer mental therapy to zita? what credence can they give? are they lawyers? are they any type of professional? no! they are not. so my heart goes out to the child.
thanks antigen for listening.
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Look, again, I agree w/ you about publicly discussing some of these sensitive issues. That was my advice initially. I haven't changed my mind. FWIW, I'm just as deeply offended by just about everything that goes under the banner "daytime talk". It makes me physically ill to see Maurey Povich hook a little girl up to a "lie detector" machine and then start grilling her in front of a live studio audience about her sex life.
But different strokes for different folks. People don't always take my advice. But then, they're not bound to. I'm not anybody's mama but my own kids.
So we agree on that. Can we move on now?
About ISAC, they're an industry watchdog.
"ISAC's mission: To ensure through research, investigation, and publication that all children maintain their dignity, are treated with respect, and their civil rights are not abridged."
http://isaccorp.org/aboutus.html (http://isaccorp.org/aboutus.html)
That's what they do. They take statements from consumers, verify the ID of the person making the claims and then add them to the collection. They also verify documents and include citations in case you want to check up on their checking. They don't hold themselves out as doing anything other than that. If you don't like that they're asking for donations then don't donate. Works for me :wink:
Trust me on this one (or not), if you spot any inacuracy, Shelby is the first and most grateful to want to know about it. At least that has been my experience whenever I've asked for verification of anything on the site.
I don't know who's pursuing what investigations. I do know that Nephi PD has been interested at some point because they asked me for logging info on a couple of posts. I'll leave it to your imagination to guess which posts and whether or not they got what they asked for. I wouldn't want to give away info. that might complicate the investigation.
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
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thanks antigen. agree to not to agree. works for me.
as far as isac, i understand what you are saying and even give them credit for the reports, but it is sad to say, they really have no authority or credence. you mentioned a person male/female, shelby. is this person a licensed private eye, lawyer, professional of any kind? what make this person different then you or i? if they are a layman, which is not bad, just goes to show that there is no real authoritive basis. you have good information here too, we are all sharing our stuff. so maybe this person is somebody with credentials, but i certainly didnt see any listed on the site.
on the other side, http://www.emancipationproject.org (http://www.emancipationproject.org) has very qualified people, there backgrounds and resumes are there. doctors and lawyers! now this is a group i would align with and plan to.
only my opinions.
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Right, http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org) = laymen, just like us. And that's all they hold themselves out to be. Check their cites, do your own homework, take it for what it's worth.
http://www.emancipationproject.org (http://www.emancipationproject.org) is a different type of organization. To tell you the truth, the most important part of what they're doing over there is just exactly what ISAC is doing; getting info out there before the public. If people start discussing the issue w/ all sides of the story presented, they'll see through it. I have more faith in that than in any new regulations.
"Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)
--Bastard Administrator
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dont tell me about wrong when youve got some bitter ol grandma telling the biggest lies i have ever heard. some of us know the truth. Hannah did not get beat up, would you stop acting like you know something! hello Hannah here!
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Story changes again: Guess Casie just fell on top of you with her fists out, and just kept falling on you, and then one fist accidently landed on your eye so hard it blacked your eye.
Then Casie fell on top of Camile a few times until it just looked like Camille got beat up too. JUST LOOKED LIKE A COUPLE OF BEATINGS that Cheryl ordered. And you and Camilles were "just out walking and got lost" and weren't running away to begin with. And you just "hit the wrong key on the computer at the library" and weren't sending an UNAUTHORIZED EMAIL in the first place. JUST A BIG OLE MISUNDERSTANDING.
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whoever the hell you are that said hannah and camille didn't get beat up u are lying straight outta your butt and YOU KNOW IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Casie beat her them both up and gave hannah a fat black eye and kicked camille in the head. so goodbye! :wave:
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Ok, can anyone give me one good reason why I should believe the people saying no one ever got beat up over the people who say that it happened more than once?
Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
Orange Country, California
Los Angeles Times
29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray
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It's a given that Casie beat up Hannah and Camille. The reason is a fact, too. What gets lost in the mix is why. Cheryl ordered it. It is not Casie's fault. When Cheryl orders a beating, it must happen or else. That is just how it works at Whitmore.
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o.k. that must have been Anneliese. Only she would have that mentality, when she was negative. Stop. You can be so good. It is hillarious how you are trying to portray Cheryl. That is what is so weird to me. I wasn't even as tight as all you were, but where in the world are you pulling all the crap from. I lived there same as anyone else and the picture these negative people are trying to write are just not the right picture, and they know it. What is the reason. Are you screwing up and it makes you feel better when you think someone else is wrong. Why dont you stop and think for a minute. What did Cheryl ever do to you that would justify what you are doing. NOTHING so stop. When i talk to my friends that have gone home. I can always tell when they have screwed up. Its like they want to just talk crap. you don't have too. It really hurts to think this is what you believe you have to do. Please stop. I think you know who i am. Believe me or not. We all still care about you. Everyone knows Casie had a bad temper. Cheryl was on her case all the time. She was always trying to get Casie to express herself so it didn't build up and come out when she got mad. I was there the day the girls left. All of us were mad. Mad at Cheryl because she forgave Hannah, remember. She Would NEVER order anyone to hit anyone. She always got mad at us for even touching eachother. YOU KNOW IT. So why are you lying like this. It hurts all of us. email me you know who i am.
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This IS NOT Annaliese! This is like the movie deal at Provo. Quit denying things--it all happened. Cheryl jerked Hannah around, cussing her. Casie was ordered by Cheryl to beat the hell out of her and Camille. Christians? It's bad enough it all happened. To continue to lie about it just makes it worse and worse and worse!
Cherly ordered Jeff and Zita to beat up Joey too that night at 3AM. Cheryl ordered those boys to beat Joey up at the Boys House. Cheryl orders kids to beat kids. That is what Cheryl does...that is what she does when she is out of control.