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Messages - Somejoker

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Cults and Conspiracies
« on: December 06, 2004, 04:50:00 PM » do you define abuse?

There is a good question for you.

Of course it is abusive to hit someone, but

How about imprisoning them against their will..even if you feel it is for their own good? Is that abusive?

What about padLocking them up at night and making them ask permission for everything from defecating to eating or drinking a glass of water? Is that abusive?

How about purposely restricting their right to urinate as a control method?  Abusive?  

How about severly limiting their sleep and caloric intake? Abusive?

How about forcing them to sit up straight in a wooden chair for twelve hours and having them poked in the back sharply when they slip out of consciousness or fail to comply?  Abusive?

Not allowing them to think or for their eyes to wander, all the while and at all times forcing the person to Smile and motivate his desire to speak to the group at the same time having said person fearfull of being personally verbally torn to shreds for little or nothing?  Abusive?

There is more,,,much more.

To me a comment that the seed wasn't abusive is just so missing the mark. The outward physical abuse endured by some in the seed is greatly overshadowed by the day to day CULTURE OF ABUSE the seed was immersed in.

The entire modality in fact fosters abuse and cultic worship, and this is seen from the seed right down to the present day copycat programs.

The seed was extremely abusive, and much like an abused housewife, many people that endured said abuse say it was because they deserved or needed it, or that it really wasn't that bad.  It was.

The Seed wasn't just unpleasant Cleveland. In fact, many of the techniques, if done by the average person, would result in felony convictions of assault and false inprisonment.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Home from rehab 30 years after the seed
« on: December 06, 2004, 04:38:00 PM »
Hey, you actually trolled up a post that wasn't attacking or sarcastic. Congrats!  you now also have 90 posts!

In honor of this momentous occasion,might I recommend you choose a user name?


The Seed Discussion Forum / to Anon with Law Degree
« on: November 19, 2004, 03:20:00 PM »
any chance of getting this thread away from personalities and back on topic?  It really has been a good conversation.

And last anon, you have now trolled up 84 posts. You ever gonna choose a user name?


The Seed Discussion Forum / Love-Bombing?
« on: November 12, 2004, 01:31:00 AM »
On 2004-11-11 19:34:00, marshall wrote:

""The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under

constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own

initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a

victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes

himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.

His servitude is strictly objective."

Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958


Now there is a quote for the archives.  Thanks Cleveland.  Many if that isn't spot on topic, nothing is.

The Seed Discussion Forum / anyone know what happened to cliff?
« on: November 11, 2004, 09:16:00 PM »
Please call him and tell him about our forum and ask him to post here.

I haven't spoke to him since I was fifteen. Also, do you know where John Underwood is?

The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: November 11, 2004, 09:13:00 PM »
On 2004-11-11 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I heard about the Seed when I was 7. that was 1975. I wnet into the program when I was 14 then again later because I had a "relapse", basically I had a couple of beers on Friday after and was an alcoholic. I have been directly involved with the Seed for 20 something years, right up to the bitter end when Art lost it and started accusing all the guys of sleeping with Shelly and became viciously paranoid.  I know one of the staff memebers took his guns away when he started walking around the house with them. Whatever reason the Seed was started, it became a cult and like most organizations and religions it is hard to say whether it did more good than bad. Many kids got off of drugs and stayed that way hopefully.  

Art's personality for control and everyone worshipping him basically let him get to the point where the Seed was a cult. (If you look up the definition it is scary.)  If you have good memories, keep them especially if they help you through life. It was very ugly at the end all the staff met with Art and "blasted him", but he and they were too far gone by then. Decisions were made over every aspect of your life by Art and staff if you lived around the Seed.  Staff at the end tried to play innocent and , but really they ran the Seed at the end and didn't tell Art most things, he was gone by then. It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who dedicated most of their lives thinking they were doing the right thing only to feel like they were swindled and confused at the end.  I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.  

I just hope i'm not crazy"

WELCOME TO OUR FORUM ANON. We have been waiting for someone like you to come along and educate us from an extreme insiders perspective.  Please tell us more, and if you would be so kind, email me your telephone number at [email protected]. I would love to chat with you.


The Seed Discussion Forum / CENIKOR is Older
« on: November 11, 2004, 09:36:00 AM »
On 2004-11-11 04:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen-now your really going off the deep end again." just trolled up 80 posts!!!!

The Seed Discussion Forum / good and bad
« on: November 11, 2004, 09:35:00 AM »
Lizard King, if you are indeed new around here, welcome to our forum!

Tell us a little about your involvment with the seed please.

I don't like it either Robin, especially since I am often the target.


The Seed Discussion Forum / CENIKOR is Older
« on: November 10, 2004, 02:40:00 PM »
Any connection to the seed?

The Seed Discussion Forum / Seed Psychology
« on: November 10, 2004, 02:36:00 PM »
When people say "cults" today, it really means coercisive cults. Sure the term came from religion but it really does mean something different now.  However, religions somtimes take on personality cult behavior and then they are very similar. Take christianity and then look at the rattle Snake people in the deep south, Or take The Hindu faith and compare that to The american Hari Krisna movement. Christianity and Jim Jones....

So yes, religions can become  destructive cults. It just isn't always so or even usually so. Lumping Religion at large in with coercsive cults is a mistake.

Religion as a legitimate social force is another topic for another forum.

The Seed Discussion Forum / THE FINAL GENERATION
« on: November 10, 2004, 02:27:00 PM »
Here here Ginger. I think these people do need to know their family has been contacting us trying to get a breakthru. I get emails and phone calls from all over the country asking me to intervene on behalf of these long timers.

For god sakes, call your mother, your father, your "druggie" sister or brother and just talk to them.

As far as the anything Sinister, I still don't believe later on much was happening except absolute control over the devotees lifes in every manner, sexual, relationships, work...everything. I don't really find that Sinister just kind of sad for grown people to be so dependent on a closed society.

The seed did end with a big blowup like alluded to from the earlier poster. Feelings are deeply hurt and people are divided and confused...people that spent their entire adult lives dedicated to the seed.  This is a story I will not post about because it was told to me in confidence, but when and if the time is right, the story will come out. [ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-10 11:28 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: November 10, 2004, 02:20:00 PM »
On 2004-11-10 09:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigin. Are you sure that place wasn't a cult too. Maybe they made someone do too many pushups which caused them some permanent damage. Maybe they gave someone too close of a crew cut and now years later they can't get erect because of it.  Come on you know everything in this world is fake you can't believe in anyone or anything because their are cultic tones behind everything.  Beware of kindness and love for their are always ulterior motives behind everything. :scared:    "

What exactly is your problem anyway Anon? You seem to always glee in sarcastically attacking people and post here constantly but won't even pick a user name. What are you up to now, 77 posts or so?

No need to hide behind that anon moniker, I know you are an ex staffer, but really none of that matters here. You want to discuss something go ahead, but your bitterness towards others hasn't gone unnoticed. No one else here really feels that way towards others and not towards you either.

BTW, I deleted your other direct attack on Ginger. I really served no purpose on this website.

Now if you got something intelligent to say, we are listening.

The Seed Discussion Forum / to Anon with Law Degree
« on: November 09, 2004, 05:08:00 PM »
On 2004-11-09 09:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

  I was absolutely terrified every single time I had to go there. Every single time without exception.

Me too. I was just sure they were gonna stand me up and humiliate me, berate me and embarrass me.  My 14 year old physc just wasn't up to it and truth be told it scarred me up pretty good. I spent years trying to understand what happened to me.  

This was the real damaging part of the program in my opinion, not the rare instance of a kid getting slapped around or tackled to the ground, but the very real threat of being personally rippped apart at any unsuspecting minute for nothing.  It truly was scary.

To our new poster, If you want to talk, email me at [email protected] with your number and I will call you. I would love to speak to you.

My user name here is GregFL and/or Somejoker. Somejoker is my moderator handle.

[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-09 14:11 ]

for the most part, not really. But you need to understand that when someone spends that much time devoting their life to something, criticism is not taken easily and clarity is sometimes hard.

Understanding is what is needed here.  These people have an important story to tell and I appreciate them being here. I have learned so much that I didn't have a clue about from them. Their contribution here is tremendous.

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