Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: none-ya on May 31, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
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Whooter, it's to bad that you yourself never spent a day in a program yourself. In a violent rap at straight,or In the ring at elan or maybe the dog cages in Jamaica (WWASP). I doubt that your opinion would be so one sided. You're trying to change the minds of people who actually lived this insanity. Who's that working? Many converts? Play a new tune please.
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Whooter, it's to bad that you yourself never spent a day in a program yourself.
None-ya, I understand that you were hurt by a program but from another perspective it is too bad that you never got to experience a child who was in need of help and the structure that a program provided to help your child. Not sure if you are a father or not.
In a violent rap at straight,or In the ring at elan or maybe the dog cages in Jamaica (WWASP). I doubt that your opinion would be so one sided. You're trying to change the minds of people who actually lived this insanity. Who's that working? Many converts? Play a new tune please.
I really do understand that many children were hurt by programs, none-ya, but you need to be able to see both sides (as I do) that some children did well and others did not. You cant just go through life viewing it from just your one isolated perspective. I never experienced it as a child and you never experienced it as a parent. Step back and try to see both perspectives and try not to be so judgmental of others.
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I too am interested in what would happen if parents, not specifically whooter, spent time in program and underwent many of the same things the kids did. I'd wager they'd withdrawal themselves pretty quickly, but at what point would the treatment become unacceptable. We know parents will subject themselves to seminars fairly similar to what the kids will, but what about raps? What about the crazier aspects of the kids's seminars?
I am interested to know from somebody like Whooter that if he (or she) were asked to wear a French maid outfit and perform a lap dance in the name of therapy, would he(or she) do it. Any other examples people can think of? Let's try and keep this thread clean and free of personal attacks, but I am interested in these hypotheticals.
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If a parent recognizes that some kids are hurt by being sent to these Synanon-based thought reform camps, while other children get a positive outcome, is the parent basically accepting, and teaching their child, that it is okay for their child to climb upon the broken backs of others to reach the top? That the ends always justify the means?
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I too am interested in what would happen if parents, not specifically whooter, spent time in program and underwent many of the same things the kids did. I'd wager they'd withdrawal themselves pretty quickly, but at what point would the treatment become unacceptable. We know parents will subject themselves to seminars fairly similar to what the kids will, but what about raps? What about the crazier aspects of the kids's seminars?
If the parents recognized that they needed the therapy for their marriage or for work/career etc. I think many would work through the program and try to improve themselves. Many others would flee when things got tough. Kids on the other hand dont have the option of just picking up and going home so they are forced to complete the program through to graduation. When kids turn 18 they are free to decide for themselves.
I am interested to know from somebody like Whooter that if he (or she) were asked to wear a French maid outfit and perform a lap dance in the name of therapy, would he(or she) do it. Any other examples people can think of? Let's try and keep this thread clean and free of personal attacks, but I am interested in these hypotheticals.
It would be bad for business. If they forced me to do that and I walked out wearing it most of the people would leave. Even staff would resign.
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The parents would attract too much attention because they are the one who need the therapy most of all. In Denmark Season 3 of a program using wilderness therapy on teenagers who want the therapy so they can learn how to become independent and move out of their parent’s house the mothers were invited.
The result was that the therapist saw that the girl’s progresses were halted by the presence of the parents. Parents tend to use something we call "Curling effect". They fall into a kind of pattern where they make excuses for their children because they can see what they created. Some parents do the homework of their children. Some drive across the country to secure that there is food on the table despite the fact that the teenager can do without the parents.
Here is a link to season 2 of the TV-series (http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-aBfHSWiWA). It is not Brat Camp. It is actually teenagers with top-grades. Our society produces adults based on the social status of their parents only. You can measure the success of a Danish child based on the economy and level of education by the parents. Danish social workers know the children they will be working with as soon as the child is only 2 years old.
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I am interested to know from somebody like Whooter that if he (or she) were asked to wear a French maid outfit and perform a lap dance in the name of therapy, would he(or she) do it. Any other examples people can think of? Let's try and keep this thread clean and free of personal attacks, but I am interested in these hypotheticals.
It would be bad for business. If they forced me to do that and I walked out wearing it most of the people would leave. Even staff would resign.
Actually. I chose that example for a reason. Crossdressing is just one exercise out of many from WWASP's parent seminars. Yet parents put up with it. Voluntarily even. Why?
WHY I DIDN’T WALK OUT
Somehow the situation had overcome my usual objections to this type of process. I was in a vulnerable position emotionally because of the long-term crises that we had experienced with our daughter. In the past several hours, I had felt myself carried along by a powerful and charismatic speaker; I was experiencing an overload from the amount of information given and speed of delivery. I didn’t have time to emotionally and rationally process what was happening. The confrontation by Don had put me into a state of emotional shock and made feel personally threatened and afraid.
My defenses were down because I was already trusting of Teen Help and expected something different. I felt an urgency to stay and participate in the seminar, because I had been persuaded to believe that my daughter’s life depended upon it. I had been told if I didn’t attend, our family could not participate in the Parent/Child Seminars that were vital to our daughter’s reintegration into our family. I wanted my daughter to come home and I wanted help with the reintegration processes from the program that best understood what she had been through. That was one of the main reasons I was at the Seminar.
Besides, I had already made a significant investment of money, time and energy in this program and my reputation was on the line. If I objected and walked out now, I would have to explain to the newspaper reporter who had interviewed me a few days before why I had done it.
I had referred three people to Teen Help and wanted to believe I had done the right thing. No one likes to feel they have made a mistake and endorsed a company they will later wish they hadn’t. I had trusted Teen Help and the results I was seeing with my daughter’s progress in the program. I would not have referred families to this program if I had had any doubts.
Besides, I owed R & D Billing, the billing company for Tranquility Bay and Teen Help, a sizeable amount of money and I was paying them off for my daughters care with referrals to the Teen Help was in a financially vulnerable situation and felt an obligation to protect the program’s best interests.
All of these reasons contributed to my decision to stay and take the Silent Vow. These were certainly not normal circumstances and I was not behaving in a manner consistent with my normal behavior. I did not, however think all of this through at the time. Rather, I was swept along in an experience that seemed to be accelerating in pace and unusualness. I also assumed that things would eventually explain themselves and that I was through the worst part of the seminar.
Read the full thing here (http://http://wwaspsurvivors.com/breaking-the-vow-of-secrecy/).
Many program parents do, in fact, go through LGAT seminars similar to LifeSteps, Propheets, WWASP's discovery seminars, and others. They're usually not quite so severe, but i'm interested to know, Whooter, if after reading that, you would tolerate what those parents did?
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I am interested to know from somebody like Whooter that if he (or she) were asked to wear a French maid outfit and perform a lap dance in the name of therapy, would he(or she) do it. Any other examples people can think of? Let's try and keep this thread clean and free of personal attacks, but I am interested in these hypotheticals.
It would be bad for business. If they forced me to do that and I walked out wearing it most of the people would leave. Even staff would resign.
Actually. I chose that example for a reason. Crossdressing is just one exercise out of many from WWASP's parent seminars. Yet parents put up with it. Voluntarily even. Why?
WHY I DIDN’T WALK OUT
Somehow the situation had overcome my usual objections to this type of process. I was in a vulnerable position emotionally because of the long-term crises that we had experienced with our daughter. In the past several hours, I had felt myself carried along by a powerful and charismatic speaker; I was experiencing an overload from the amount of information given and speed of delivery. I didn’t have time to emotionally and rationally process what was happening. The confrontation by Don had put me into a state of emotional shock and made feel personally threatened and afraid.
My defenses were down because I was already trusting of Teen Help and expected something different. I felt an urgency to stay and participate in the seminar, because I had been persuaded to believe that my daughter’s life depended upon it. I had been told if I didn’t attend, our family could not participate in the Parent/Child Seminars that were vital to our daughter’s reintegration into our family. I wanted my daughter to come home and I wanted help with the reintegration processes from the program that best understood what she had been through. That was one of the main reasons I was at the Seminar.
Besides, I had already made a significant investment of money, time and energy in this program and my reputation was on the line. If I objected and walked out now, I would have to explain to the newspaper reporter who had interviewed me a few days before why I had done it.
I had referred three people to Teen Help and wanted to believe I had done the right thing. No one likes to feel they have made a mistake and endorsed a company they will later wish they hadn’t. I had trusted Teen Help and the results I was seeing with my daughter’s progress in the program. I would not have referred families to this program if I had had any doubts.
Besides, I owed R & D Billing, the billing company for Tranquility Bay and Teen Help, a sizeable amount of money and I was paying them off for my daughters care with referrals to the Teen Help was in a financially vulnerable situation and felt an obligation to protect the program’s best interests.
All of these reasons contributed to my decision to stay and take the Silent Vow. These were certainly not normal circumstances and I was not behaving in a manner consistent with my normal behavior. I did not, however think all of this through at the time. Rather, I was swept along in an experience that seemed to be accelerating in pace and unusualness. I also assumed that things would eventually explain themselves and that I was through the worst part of the seminar.
Read the full thing here (http://http://wwaspsurvivors.com/breaking-the-vow-of-secrecy/).
Many program parents do, in fact, go through LGAT seminars similar to LifeSteps, Propheets, WWASP's discovery seminars, and others. They're usually not quite so severe, but i'm interested to know, Whooter, if after reading that, you would tolerate what those parents did?
I would not tolerate that. I don't think it is necessary to bully or belittle people. I had a family member who attended a seminar called EST in the early 80's, it was a 2 weekend 60 hour course and just listening to what the people had to go through, no bathroom breaks etc. it wouldn't be for me. I was invited in during the last hour and people seemed like they were on drugs. A lot of money for getting high in my opinion. It wore off in a couple of weeks and all was forgotten. Probably a good exercise in human behavior.
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I had a boss who spent big $$$ to do the EST thing. It never did any damn good. But he would never admit he wasted his money
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I too am interested in what would happen if parents, not specifically whooter, spent time in program and underwent many of the same things the kids did. I'd wager they'd withdrawal themselves pretty quickly, but at what point would the treatment become unacceptable. We know parents will subject themselves to seminars fairly similar to what the kids will, but what about raps? What about the crazier aspects of the kids's seminars?
I am interested to know from somebody like Whooter that if he (or she) were asked to wear a French maid outfit and perform a lap dance in the name of therapy, would he(or she) do it. Any other examples people can think of? Let's try and keep this thread clean and free of personal attacks, but I am interested in these hypotheticals.
Or perhaps it would be used as a means of legitimizing certain politically connected companies who claim to offer "safe and non-abusive" treatment alternatives. Emphasis on the quotes should be seen as sarcasm.
As another way of looking at it, the Sue Scheff El Switcheroo. Her vocal opposition to WWASP being used as a front to pitch her hand picked programs that reportedly give/gave her a fee for referring kids to them.
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I had a boss who spent big $$$ to do the EST thing. It never did any damn good. But he would never admit he wasted his money
I've always been bizarrely curious about the whole EST thing. Just too cheap to drop the money to go see it for myself, not sure I could sit still without dropping my pants and mooning the facilitator either.
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I would not tolerate that. I don't think it is necessary to bully or belittle people.
So you agree that these seminars, as they are used in today's programs, are wrong? For both parents and kids? You consider this bullying -- belittling... abusive?
I had a family member who attended a seminar called EST in the early 80's, it was a 2 weekend 60 hour course and just listening to what the people had to go through, no bathroom breaks etc. it wouldn't be for me.
I've had it verified from CEDU staff (Penelope Valentine, for one), that est and lifeSpring were primary influences in CEDU's Propheets, which form the basis for Aspen's LifeSteps. Would you say that this entire experiment with LGATs was a mistake?
It wore off in a couple of weeks and all was forgotten. Probably a good exercise in human behavior.
Indeed the intended effects do wear off, but not always the unintended effects. Margaret T. Singer (not Sanger) and others called these "casualties". (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/apologist/apologist23.html) Just to quote "the Lieberman and Yalom studies (19xx) of encounter groups indicated that "the people who experienced negative results in combination with the psychological casualties constituted about 19% ... or for close to one out of five people who participated in these group experiences, the results were harmful"" Given that evidence and the fact both est's successor, Landmark Education and LifeSpring both to my knowledge recommend adults with psychological trauma or difficulty not go through their seminars, do you really think it's a good idea to be putting vulnerable kids who very likely may have psychological issues, through the very same thing (often far worse)?
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I would not tolerate that. I don't think it is necessary to bully or belittle people.
So you agree that these seminars, as they are used in today's programs, are wrong? For both parents and kids? You consider this bullying -- belittling... abusive?
I had a family member who attended a seminar called EST in the early 80's, it was a 2 weekend 60 hour course and just listening to what the people had to go through, no bathroom breaks etc. it wouldn't be for me.
I've had it verified from CEDU staff (Penelope Valentine, for one), that est and lifeSpring were primary influences in CEDU's Propheets, which form the basis for Aspen's LifeSteps. Would you say that this entire experiment with LGATs was a mistake?
It wore off in a couple of weeks and all was forgotten. Probably a good exercise in human behavior.
Indeed the intended effects do wear off, but not always the unintended effects. Margaret T. Singer (not Sanger) and others called these "casualties". (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/apologist/apologist23.html) Just to quote "the Lieberman and Yalom studies (19xx) of encounter groups indicated that "the people who experienced negative results in combination with the psychological casualties constituted about 19% ... or for close to one out of five people who participated in these group experiences, the results were harmful"" Given that evidence and the fact both est's successor, Landmark Education and LifeSpring both to my knowledge recommend adults with psychological trauma or difficulty not go through their seminars, do you really think it's a good idea to be putting vulnerable kids who very likely may have psychological issues, through the very same thing (often far worse)?
The present models may have developed from the past, EST, for example but it doesn't mean that they are abusive. My daughter never had to dress up in a french maids outfit nor was she belittled. We need to identify and weed out the abusive programs and have them change their tactics or shut them down for their abuse if they are still operating.
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LGATs are not indicated for individuals with a trauma history (and in fact are likely harmful and counterindicated). Many but not all programs utilize LGATs. Many but not all youth who are referred to programs have a history of trauma.
Youth are exposed to LGATs well before it is conceivable that a thorough evaluation can be done to assess if they do in fact have a significant trauma history. I know you put a lot of faith in third-party referrals, and the ability of a good ethical educational consultant to make this determination. I don't think that the educational consultant system nor the evaluative (i.e. wilderness program) system is fined tune enough to distinguish between behavior that has trauma that has a root cause, and behavior that does not.
What I think is reasonable to ask of the industry, is to either take the LGAT out of their toolbox or to make damn sure that they're not applying this tool to the wrong person. For those programs that are dependent upon LGATs as a significant piece of their intervention, this will hurt their bottom line.
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So when your daughter was in ASR, she didn't go through LifeSteps? When was she in ASR?
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LGATs are not indicated for individuals with a trauma history (and in fact are likely harmful and counterindicated). Many but not all programs utilize LGATs. Many but not all youth who are referred to programs have a history of trauma.
Youth are exposed to LGATs well before it is conceivable that a thorough evaluation can be done to assess if they do in fact have a significant trauma history. I know you put a lot of faith in third-party referrals, and the ability of a good ethical educational consultant to make this determination. I don't think that the educational consultant system nor the evaluative (i.e. wilderness program) system is fined tune enough to distinguish between behavior that has trauma that has a root cause, and behavior that does not.
What I think is reasonable to ask of the industry, is to either take the LGAT out of their toolbox or to make damn sure that they're not applying this tool to the wrong person. For those programs that are dependent upon LGATs as a significant piece of their intervention, this will hurt their bottom line.
My daughter underwent a week evaluation at McCleans hospital in Belmont, Ma to see if she would be fit for wilderness and then eventually Therapeutic boarding school. It was good money spent in my opinion. As a minimum I think it would be advantageous if the children were screened prior to attending either one of these. I saw kids in SUWS that I thought should not have been sent there, but I think they did a good job screening kids for ASR. Out of the 12 or so kids in my daughters peer group only one pulled out early and I think that was due to financial reasons and she ended up unwed /pregnant and moving away from home. She lost contact with the group after that. My daughter has been in contact off and on with with most of the kids they graduated with. They are planning a reunion and even trying to locate and invite some staff members.
One thing they have in common is they dont put ASR on their resumes lol.
But back on topic, I think they did use LGAT at ASR but they were not as brutal as what I read in the Article psy linked to in another post. A much softer version was used.
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Softer? Let's let the reader be the judge.
Perhaps as a former student/client/survivor/inmate/whatever you want to call it, I can shed some light on the subject. I was in peer group 17, I was at ASR from October of 2000 to December of 2001. During my stay I was under the impression that the lifesteps were essentially unchanged from the start of the program up until then. I can't say anything about 2002 and onward. As was said before, they were about anger, insecurities, reconnecting with core self, (aka inner child) and forgiveness. They were held in the library in the academic building, and generally started around mid evening on a friday or saturday night, and lasted between 12 and 24 hours. Hard to tell exactly because they made a policy of taking our watches beforehand. All I know was that at the latest, we were asleep in our beds by the normal lights out the next night, except for the 4th lifestep, where we slept in tents overnight outside the library. That was about 36 hours altogether.
They definitely fed us, slightly less than usual, but more than adequate for a day's nutrition. As for sleep deprivation, we were up way past our bedtimes, which were tightly regulated, so any alterations to the routine were quite noticeable. While we were up late, full of anxiety and stress, we were subjected to a lot of yelling, a lot of exercises and workshops designed to illustrate how our behaviors were hurting us. There was a lot of crying, screaming, cursing, quiet time for writing, (read: kids can't talk, counselors walk around reading what's being written and pontificating about the topics being written about. My point is that it was very intense and quite overwhelming. I don't remember every single detail of the experiences, but I will try to include what I can.
The most memorable thing about the first lifestep was an exercise called dyads. This involved pairing up with a buddy and holding them while screaming at the top of our lungs all the things we hated our parents and ourselves for, for minutes at a time. I distinctly remember spitting up blood and being encouraged to continue screaming. There were also short group therapy sessions, there were exercises involving listing all the things our parents had ever done to hurt us, focusing on all the pain and suffering that we'd ever felt and how angry it made us. After all of us were exhausted we read letters our parents sent us about how much they loved us and why they chose to send us away. Needless to say there was a lot of crying.
The second lifestep had exercises where we had to sit in a circle, while one of us would walk around from person to person to hear whether that one or this one considered them a "giver" or a "taker". After we'd all judged each other we had to say to people why we felt this way about them. Some of this took the form of harsh criticism masked as praise. There were exercises involving how we judge ourselves and how we present ourselves to others. We had to wear cards around our necks that labeled us as one thing or another to supposedly demonstrate how restrictive the images we present to people can be. I remember carving images into cubes of sandstone to symbolize all the good qualities we had and who we really were. I also remember listening to Enya and other new age music, and doing a warped guided meditation which, rather than enhancing relaxation heightens emotions like guilt, sadness and fear. It was either in this lifestep or the third that we did an exercise involving manic, happy music, and all of us being instructed to smile until it started to hurt, and walk around laughing and smiling and looking at each other for about 5-10 minutes with the song on repeat. By the end many were crying, some were on the verge of hysteria.
The third lifestep was probably the most traumatic and damaging. It involved internalizing immense guilt. We had to write down anything and everything that we'd ever done to hurt ourselves, told how horrible it was, then forced to look at childhood pictures of ourselves that our parents had mailed to the school. Sitting there for what seemed like hours being yelled at because all the mistakes, impulses, and self destruction we'd gone through were "horrible things that we, as horrible people had done to the innocent children that we were" We were told to imagine all these wrongdoings being visited upon these children, as if we'd done them to some helpless little kid ourselves. Hurting yourself because you're horribly depressed is suddenly akin to torturing preschoolers. Talk about cognitive dissonance! We had to draw a symbolic portrait of ourselves involving all our interests, loves, etc., then tack the childhood picture to it. The other focus of this lifestep was the emotional manipulations or games that we use in an attempt to fill holes in our lives. We acted out all the games we each typically used, and had our peer group guess which one. Games such as playing the victim, using intimidation, attention games, the "everything is fine" game, etc.
The fourth lifestep involved a modified Native American sweat ritual. One of these took place before the first lifestep, almost a pre lifestep. This ritual was kind of like group therapy in a sauna, with some new age religious undertones. We were smudged with sage before entering the sweat lodge, there was a little discussion about purification. We talked about grudges we held, and how they weighed us down. To illustrate this concept physically, we took a long walk in the woods late at night, each of us carrying a rock about the size of a large melon and being lectured to about how we weigh ourselves down by not letting things go. We weren't allowed to put down the rocks, and the walk lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. Being able to set down the rock was supposed to symbolize how good it feels to let go of anger and resentment. Perfect timing, the program's almost over, let's assuage some of the anger that comes from having a year of your life stolen.
As I understand, you've admitted in the past that this description is more or less an accurate description of what your daughter went through. I should note that most of what he wrote is more or less a copy of Propheets from CEDU (also very similar to what I went through myself which was also a Propheet based workshop). Similarly, the "dyads" and the giver-taker exercise among others are also part of LifeSpring. Here (http://http://survivortothriver.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/healing-in-lifespring-day-three-in-advanced/) is a more complete description of a giver-taken exercise taken from a pro-LifeSpring website (I recommend reading the entire thing with the fact in mind that this survivor of sexual abuse views what she went through as a positive experience, and no doubt wasted untold thousands on further workshops). My question to you is whether, like the parent seminar, you feel these things are over the line, and whether you would be willing to tolerate and participate in such activities as a participant?
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Brett Carey was my former discovery family head and ran my children's propheet. They knew how to pick em at Academy at Swift River!
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As I understand, you've admitted in the past that this description is more or less an accurate description of what your daughter went through. I should note that most of what he wrote is more or less a copy of Propheets from CEDU (also very similar to what I went through myself which was also a Propheet based workshop). Similarly, the "dyads" and the giver-taker exercise among others are also part of LifeSpring. Here (http://http://survivortothriver.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/healing-in-lifespring-day-three-in-advanced/) is a more complete description of a giver-taken exercise taken from a pro-LifeSpring website (I recommend reading the entire thing with the fact in mind that this survivor of sexual abuse views what she went through as a positive experience, and no doubt wasted untold thousands on further workshops). My question to you is whether, like the parent seminar, you feel these things are over the line, and whether you would be willing to tolerate and participate in such activities as a participant?
It was accurate as I remember, but her description was a bit softer than that and they (her friends and herself) recalled being elated after it was over and stayed up for hours talking about the events of the day. Sort of like climbing to the top of a mountain. Totally exhausted, a little beat up, but feeling good about yourself. I think the problem is two fold. Not all kids are cut out for Therapeutic Boarding schools and not all schools are alike. So the stories and outcomes can differ greatly.
As I mentioned before this is not something that I would want to go through myself and would probably opt out if I had the option to do so. But I dont consider it abusive.
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As I understand, you've admitted in the past that this description is more or less an accurate description of what your daughter went through. I should note that most of what he wrote is more or less a copy of Propheets from CEDU (also very similar to what I went through myself which was also a Propheet based workshop). Similarly, the "dyads" and the giver-taker exercise among others are also part of LifeSpring. Here (http://http://survivortothriver.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/healing-in-lifespring-day-three-in-advanced/) is a more complete description of a giver-taken exercise taken from a pro-LifeSpring website (I recommend reading the entire thing with the fact in mind that this survivor of sexual abuse views what she went through as a positive experience, and no doubt wasted untold thousands on further workshops). My question to you is whether, like the parent seminar, you feel these things are over the line, and whether you would be willing to tolerate and participate in such activities as a participant?
It was accurate as I remember, but her description was a bit softer than that and they (her friends and herself) recalled being elated after it was over and stayed up for hours talking about the events of the day. Sort of like climbing to the top of a mountain. Totally exhausted, a little beat up, but feeling good about yourself. I think the problem is two fold. Not all kids are cut out for Therapeutic Boarding schools and not all schools are alike. So the stories and outcomes can differ greatly.
As I mentioned before this is not something that I would want to go through myself and would probably opt out if I had the option to do so. But I dont consider it abusive.
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If the child says anything negative about the program there would be consequences. Whooter what are you trying to sell? :roflmao:
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As I understand, you've admitted in the past that this description is more or less an accurate description of what your daughter went through. I should note that most of what he wrote is more or less a copy of Propheets from CEDU (also very similar to what I went through myself which was also a Propheet based workshop). Similarly, the "dyads" and the giver-taker exercise among others are also part of LifeSpring. Here (http://http://survivortothriver.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/healing-in-lifespring-day-three-in-advanced/) is a more complete description of a giver-taken exercise taken from a pro-LifeSpring website (I recommend reading the entire thing with the fact in mind that this survivor of sexual abuse views what she went through as a positive experience, and no doubt wasted untold thousands on further workshops). My question to you is whether, like the parent seminar, you feel these things are over the line, and whether you would be willing to tolerate and participate in such activities as a participant?
It was accurate as I remember, but her description was a bit softer than that and they (her friends and herself) recalled being elated after it was over and stayed up for hours talking about the events of the day. Sort of like climbing to the top of a mountain. Totally exhausted, a little beat up, but feeling good about yourself. I think the problem is two fold. Not all kids are cut out for Therapeutic Boarding schools and not all schools are alike. So the stories and outcomes can differ greatly.
As I mentioned before this is not something that I would want to go through myself and would probably opt out if I had the option to do so. But I dont consider it abusive.
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If the child says anything negative about the program there would be consequences. Whooter what are you trying to sell? :roflmao:
You misunderstood, this was after she graduated. She wasn't in the program when we talked about this.
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I wouldn't dispute that. Lots of people think the LGAT experience is a positive one long after it's over. It doesn't make it a positive experience objectively. Lots of victims of childhood sexual abuse feel the same way, and carry on to abuse others. I was elated after I went through my LGAT, and it took me a while to realize just how fucked up, for example, the disclosure circles, actually were. Same with a lot of the exercises. It's like an "aha" moment when you realize "Oh dear. That was just plain wrong and manipulative". I realized it in program, long before most people, and long before I ever found Fornits. I don't think any "outsider" can read an honest description of an LGAT and not think "there is something wrong here". A lot of social pressure is needed to keep adults in such seminars. Kids, as you point out, don't have the option of leaving.