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Messages - Miss Antsy Pam

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CAN ~ Collective Action Network / Re: Program Parents: Types and Psyches
« on: August 18, 2009, 09:09:41 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Would Katie Carter's parents be considered abusive or cult members?

I think Katie's parents are BOTH!  Me...I feel I was TRICKED and desperate...still NO EXCUSE for what I did to my son.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Antigen- Ginger Warbis address
« on: August 13, 2009, 11:57:28 AM »
Quote from: "Antigen"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Antigen"
724-797-2672 and that's an old addre
The easy way is
                                Antigen is one of the coolest souls in here, down with gulags, yeaaaaaaa for Antigen.  No one is afraid of the big bad wolf any more....sigh...... :twofinger:

Garsh! Thanks!

I am with ya guest^^...if it weren't for Ginger, we would not have these forums...forums that have helped countless souls come to terms with what they endured in any program.  To attack this woman is just F'd up..period.  Good for you Ginger...give it to them.

If I had your address, I would send you a BIG thank you note!!!

 :peace: be unto to you Ginger!


Open Free for All / Re: Los Angeles, Anyone?
« on: August 12, 2009, 10:42:11 AM »
Hey DJ....I sent you a pm but I think I only previewed it and did not hit "submit".  Please see your pm box for my reply

CAN ~ Collective Action Network / Re: Katie's Story
« on: August 11, 2009, 09:40:06 AM »

I can only imagine how hard it was to write that installment.  However, by doing so, you have freed yourself from the chains that bind and take you down.  People in your situation or something similar do the same thing; it is purely a matter of SURVIVAL.  You did what you had to do to make it thru your YEARS of torture.

Please, please remember you only did what you HAD TO DO in order for YOU to survive.  Everyone on these forums knows how this works with the upper levels and the new kids.  Do not beat yourself up for doing what anyone would have done in your situation.  You may be judged by some Fornits readers, but they are only words and words cannot kill you.  

New things will come to light as the days and months pass, but you have the opportunity now to make YOUR LIFE different and better than it ever could be.  Look at what people like Femanon had to endure and look at her now.  She is DEVOTED to this cause and channels her energy into doing something positive and something that makes a difference.  I respect her more than MANY other people in my life even though she is not my biggest fan because I did something to her that was wrong.  Even with that, she had the ability to forgive (maybe?) and to continue working together for a common goal.

Remember sweetie...this will be a journey and NOT just a destination.  You will have to process many things over the ensuing years, but what they say is TRUE...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!

Much love,
~pam    :rose:  :peace:

Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
This is a false choice. It is not a choice between some phony nirvana in a program and completely tolerating a teen who is off track, violent or deliquent. There is another way.

Parents do not have to be afraid to keep working it out at home.
Families can and do successfully seek help in their own communities, within their own family, social, and community networks, in a way that keeps the family together and helps the child and the family to work out their problems. The child may clearly need help, but that almost always means the parents need help parenting, too. Families can and do survive the teen years!

Adults are accountable because the adults have the power.
The reason children are not held to the same account as adults is that the adults are the ones with the power. The legal definitions of various kinds of abuse or violence all turn on the power differential. If one party is more powerful physically, mentally, or economically or with regard to legal standing, or otherwise have greater power, then they are prohibited from using that power to harm or take advantage of the other person.

Parents are legally and morally obligated to protect children from abuse.
Furthermore, parents are legally and morally obligated to protect their children, to protect them from the type of abuse that commonly--commonly--occurs in programs, including deprivation of food, water, shelter, medical care, liberty, and education, and deprives them of the ability to report these abuses to the authorities and, in fact, to their own parents.

We may disagree about what constitutes "protecting"...
Arguments like these between pro-program parents/family members/supporters and anti-program survivors/youth/advocates/defenders seems to get stuck fighting about two competing views. One view is that sending children to involuntary placements in programs thousands of miles from home and family for confrontational "therapy" is somehow "protecting the child." The other view is that doing so is abuse, pure and simple. Obviously you can count me in the latter camp. I do make an exception for the family members who are deceived and/or railroaded by programs into enrolling their children.

...but there is documentation of widespread abuse, and deceptive marketing practices at programs.
Just because some families report a good experience with a program does not in any way excuse or rationalize the acts of child abuse committed against other children. Parents are right to be deeply concerned about the health, well-being, and safety of a child placed in a program. There is detailed credible documentation of widespread reports of abuse, maltreatment, death, and deceptive marketing practices as reported by the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office in their foresic investigation reports issued in October 2007 ( ... timony.pdf) and April 2008 ( ... egKutz.pdf).  

Auntie Em

Quote from: "Inculcated"
Quote from: "seriously?"
i think you are being a little harsh on your daughter. grounded for being two minuts late? c'mon! and increasing the punishment every time? seriously?

rules are there to discourage bad behavior, not stop it altogether. you will never stop your daughter from doing things she wants to do, you can only prevent her from taking it too far. you will be fighting a never-ending battle if you continue to ground your daughter in this manner.

why do you think she drank your alcohol? because she's a "bad girl"? no. it's because she's a bored girl. because she is stuck inside all day long with nothing better to do than be sedentary and rummage through the cabinets and closets looking for something to do once she's sick of TV, music, and the computer.

you must understand, this is a very common yet tragic mistake that parents make. you cannot take away activities and ground kids if you want them to behave in a healthy manner; they will only find ways around your rules and look for new ways to have fun - which are often unhealthy.

instead of being restrictive, which indirectly encourages her to rebel and do things you wont like, you should be supportive. not supportive of whatever she wants to do e.g stay out all night (thats crazy), but supportive towards her leading a healthier lifestyle. instead of punishing her negatively, punish her positively - by making her do something good that she might not necessarily like.

for example:
tell her you will un-ground her if she does one of the following:
gets above a certain G.P.A
joins a certain after-school activity you'd like her to participate in
joins a sports team
pledges to exercise a certain amount of hours a day
goes to church

the opportunities are endless.

I would advise you to keep this in mind:
 first, this cannot be an instantaneous lifting of the grounding, nor can the grounding come back under the slightest infraction. slowly give her more and more freedom (and more leeway if she slips up) as she continues to consistently do what she pledged to do. if she wants to have lots of fun, she needs to balance it with lots of work.

also, i beg you, please dont freak out as she grows up and makes mistakes. it's very likely that she WILL smoke pot one day. she WILL throw a party at your house one day. she WILL get drunk. she WILL have sex. If you punish her by grounding her every time she does something like that, you are only instigating a war between you two. you have to accept that these things are inevitable and you have to allow certain things to slide. KIDS WILL BE KIDS. theres nothing you can do about it. It's your job to prevent your daughter from taking things too far, not punish her when she slips up. let her make her own mistakes. when she smokes pot, make her do 50 math problems - you cant do math if your stoned. when she throws a party, make her deep-clean every nook and cranny of the house. when she gets drunk, make sure she gets so drunk she'll never want to drink again. if she smokes cigarettes, make her smoke a pack in under two hours. It's like supervised mistake-making. like: "OK, so you want to do these stupid things? well, heres the dark side of these things, heres the extra baggage that comes with making mistakes, do what you want but at your own risk". it's all about teaching responsibility, not punishing for irresponsibility.

heres how this attitude plays out in the long term:
if you continue to just punish her, one of two things will happen:
1. she will rebel so furiously that you will be hard pressed to send her away.
2. when she goes to college, or leaves the 'nest', she will realize that the god deity [you] who would punish her whenever she does something wrong doesn't have any sway over her, and she can do whatever she wants. now, she is doing this and that risky behavior without knowing the real dangers, without any awareness, without a sense of balance in everyday life, and without supervision.

 wouldnt you rather she make supervised mistakes, rather than unsupervised? if you let her make these mistakes while she lives with you, when she leaves she will have a sense of responsibility and will not go crazy partying all day and all night in college.

i see this at college campuses all the time - there is a clear-cut division between students who's parents have different parenting styles. the ones who have supportive parents who let them party a little in high school develop a distaste for the party life early in college and end up being responsible adults - particularly the ones whose parents would actually drink with them (european style - glass of wine or beer at dinner once or twice a week, a little bit more at special events like weddings), that way the kids learned responsible vs. irresponsible drinking early on. the kids who's parents were abstinence only sticklers and banned any drinking would go and buy a case of beer every few days and get drunk at any opportunity.
Seriously, that was stellar advice, every word of it...except the church part (mho). I hope you’ve adopted a lot of kids or plan to.

You were given some GREAT advice from Inculated and Seriously.  Try these things first before EVEN thinking about sending her to a program.  This opinion comes from a Mom that made a BIG mistake sending my son to a program school.  It has been 5 years now and we still feel the effects of his 2 months in Casa by the Sea.

My other advice is to let your daughter live HER life.  Most parents have hopes and dreams for our children - these ideas must be tossed out.  We all get ONE life to do with as we please.  She has her OWN LIFE that she is entitled to mess up if that is HER choice.  I know it is hard; I struggle with this everyday.  Just keep loving her and she will find her way, but keep in mind what Seriously had to say.

Good luck to you from one Mom to another! :peace:

Tacitus' Realm / Re: the "birthers" thing
« on: August 06, 2009, 12:01:44 PM »
So what is the end result of investigation?  I am only interested since we have the same birthday  - not sure if that is good or bad

The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Program Trolling
« on: August 04, 2009, 08:12:46 AM »
Sure....I am on board.  I kinda get a kick at out calling these places and making them waste time!


Web forum hosting / Re: I'm Going on Vacation for two weeks
« on: July 31, 2009, 08:57:46 AM »
Welcome back Psy! I hope you enjoyed your time away :~)

The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Please stop flooding
« on: July 31, 2009, 08:47:09 AM »
Thanks Ginger!!!   You are correct about the sheer volume of posts.  I am having a hard time finding anything I am looking for... :shamrock:

Aspen Education Group / Re: "TheWho"'s True Identity
« on: July 13, 2009, 07:32:14 AM »
Put me down for $50...all of it to go to Fornits hosting fees!

The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Buzzkill and WWASP
« on: April 18, 2009, 08:52:55 AM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
I forgot to explain: I had learned about LGAT in my HS psychology class; and had heard James Dobson, of Focus on the Family fame, discuss it as well. He was concerned about all the business suites being forced to attend these things by their companies. Keeping in mind I was already concerned about what was going on with them; when I got the rules, it all clicked, and I knew then exactly what I was dealing with.

I find it interesting that you had the same reaction to the rules for the seminars that I did.  I booked myself for Discovery, but once I read the rules, I KNEW something was terribly wrong with this organization/association.  I knew about LGAT from the "team building" trips that I attended in the corporate world, but they were never as restrictive as what I saw with WWASP.  I was also quite active on the BBS, but they started deleting my post or heavily editing them once I began to question things.

Once I made the decision that this program was not right for "us", I pulled him within a week.  That was 5-6 years ago now and he is NOT DEAD INSANE OR IN least not at the moment.  He has had his troubles, but has had to work them out.  To me, that is our obligations as let them work it out in their own way without overreacting to something YOU might find unsettling.  

Now that his teen years are behind him (he is now 21) he has "evened out" so to speak.  There are still flare ups from time to time, but that is to be expected.  I LET him come back home for awhile so he could save some money, but even doing that might not have been the greatest idea. Ahhh...we ALL live and learn.  I expect he will be back in his OWN place within the next 2 weeks.  It is time for both of us.  We are very close, but both need our independence from one another now.

Keep going Che!!   Chapter 5 was good....let's keep it coming!

Seriously...this IS important information.

CAN ~ Collective Action Network / Re: Katie's Story
« on: April 11, 2009, 07:52:14 AM »
Dear Katie,

It is my desire that you will find acceptance here and HOPE that you will not be tormented the rest of your life.  Keep writing - it can be very cathartic just putting these words to paper.  As someone said, you CAN forget a lot because you were in shock and traumatized.  I admire your courage for sharing your most personal thoughts & feelings to complete strangers, but these will be the people that can help you feel "whole" again.

You have been thru a trauma that will not be healed easily, but there are LOTS pf people willing to help you.   Personally, I am glad that Femanon was so determined to make contact with you!!!

Welcome...Welcome...Welcome.  If there is somethig you need...just say the words and there will be many offers of help

peace can be found here :-)



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