Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Timoclea

Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12]
166
The Troubled Teen Industry / Anon Postings
« on: February 19, 2004, 08:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 13:23:00, Christopher Riner wrote:

"Something very important that I learned in the program was that when approaching certain situations the best thing that you can do is have a clear, open mind.  If some people were to post who they really were than you would not listen to what they had to say at all... of course you probably already have a prior judgement built up towards anon. dundee supporters anyways, so I guess it doesn't really matter."


Approaching situations with an open mind is a good idea.  A good way to demonstrate that would be for you to open your mind to the possibility that even if you were a liar and doing coke when you went into the program, that not every kid that gets stuck in a program is a liar or a druggie---that some kids get stuck in programs because they don't fit a controlling parent's unrealistic expectations for teenage perfection.

Can you open up to that possibility?

Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind...it doesn't matter!
--  Chuck Gauran


167
The Troubled Teen Industry / DNS attack
« on: February 19, 2004, 03:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 12:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Sorry, that was me...do you see what I'm saying?

$paqmmer1"


The last thing I have to say on this crap is that it is Ginger's business whether she decides to consider  your behavior crossing the line into DNS attack territory or not.

If she doesn't, fine.  It's her board.  If she does, that's fine, too.  It's her roof, so her rules rule.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein


168
The Troubled Teen Industry / STOP SPAMMING!
« on: February 19, 2004, 03:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 12:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Attempts at censorship usually begin with attitudes like yours. Somebody thinks that what someone else has to say is offensive or potentially offensive, so it shouldn't be said.



I find the threads that I've bumped MUCH more interesting than the crap du jour that's been being dished up here lately...



Sorry, but you're wrong...



"$pammer" 1"


I don't object to the content of your opinions, I object to the manner in which you're using your expression to drown out other people's.

The police can't arrest Jane Doe for giving a speech in the public square on anything from government corruption to dryer lint----but if Jane starts giving the very same speech over a loudly amplified bullhorn that hurts the ears of the other people walking through the square, or drowns out their conversations, the police can drag Jane right off in handcuffs and prosecute---and make it stick in Court, too.

Freedom of speech, and censorship, are issues relating to content----not manner.

Your right to swing your fist ends at the other guy's nose.  Rules on the *manner* of speech, not the content, exist all over the country, and are routinely upheld.

Now, it's Ginger's board and if she doesn't have a problem with your virtual "screaming" drowning out other people, that's her business.  But if she *does* have a problem with it and tells you to cut it out, that's her business, too----which your ISP will help her enforce, if needed.

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
--Thomas Paine


169
The Troubled Teen Industry / DNS attack
« on: February 19, 2004, 03:34:00 PM »
I think the pro-program idiots, or the trolls, have changed their tactics and gone to straight Denial of Service attacks---carried out by "bumping" long dead threads to the top in order to bury actual current discussions.

Unfortunately, Ginger, if you let it work, you'll see more of it.

Denial of Service attacks are almost certainly an explicit violation of the culprit's Terms of Service agreement with his ISP.

Obviously Fornits is being effective, to start attracting this kind of disruptive attention.

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson


170
The Troubled Teen Industry / STOP SPAMMING!
« on: February 19, 2004, 03:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
I don't have a problem with your opinion vis which threads are important and your expressing that opinion. I have a problem with your choosing a manner of expression that disrupts the mechanical function of the board for everyone else by making it impossible to sort out the active threads from the inactive ones.

It doesn't disrupt the function at all...all you have to do is go to the next page, silly.



Quote
*If* you are truly interested in communicating a point of view and not just screwing up the function of the board, you should have no trouble with putting together a single post with the URL's of the threads you think are particularly important and why, rather than continuing this obnoxious behavior.

Why should I have to do that?"


To avoid being obnoxious.

Your behavior amounts to a denial of service attack on Ginger's board.  I hope she sends you a warning notification, and that if you don't stop, she notifies your ISP and gets your account killed as a violation of your Terms of Service agreement.

Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked,  and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that  the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque  self-deception."  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0517150735/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9


171
The Troubled Teen Industry / The Horror's of Dundee Ranch in May 2003
« on: February 19, 2004, 03:14:00 PM »
Well, I can believe they're all lying, or I can believe that maybe you're the one lying.

If WWASP was telling the truth, and you were telling the truth, then they wouldn't be getting so upset at the thought that they'd actually have to let the kids send and receive letters freely (not just to their parents), and that they'd have to be subject to surprise inspections of any part of the facility by child welfare folks.  And, of course, that there would be a *minimum* number of thorough, surprise inspections each year.

If WWASP was telling the truth, and you were telling the truth, they'd welcome the oversight as a way to demonstrate that they were better than their industry competitors.

If WWASP was telling the truth, and you were telling the truth, they'd welcome each child having an intake interview by a social services case worker to evaluate the reason for placement and to verify that the child did indeed have the listed problems, so that children who didn't need residential treatment would be screened out instead of admitted.

Since, instead, they (and you) come across as highly resistant to reasonable government oversight of what amounts to involuntary commitment, I draw the reasonable conclusion that the people claiming abuse are more likely to be telling the truth and you and the other WWASPies are more likely to be lying.

If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson


172
The Troubled Teen Industry / STOP SPAMMING!
« on: February 19, 2004, 01:21:00 PM »
But you're *not* saying anything.  You're not contributing anything new, you're just trying to control what others read.

Now, if you posted *one* posting with a list of the URL's of the threads you think are really important, and said, "I think these are really important, and here's why...."--*then* you'd be saying something.

As it is, you're not saying something, you're just being annoying and immature, and if Ginger deletes your bumps, I'm certainly not going to consider it viewpoint censorship.  Instead, I'll look at it as control/correction of a behavior designed to circumvent the smooth functioning of the Board as an open forum for all points of view.

There are often multiple ways to do something.  Some of those ways are annoying, some tactful, some neutral.

I don't have a problem with your opinion vis which threads are important and your expressing that opinion.  I have a problem with your choosing a manner of expression that disrupts the mechanical function of the board for everyone else by making it impossible to sort out the active threads from the inactive ones.

*If* you are truly interested in communicating a point of view and not just screwing up the function of the board, you should have no trouble with putting together a single post with the URL's of the threads you think are particularly important and why, rather than continuing this obnoxious behavior.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just hadn't thought of that.

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446


173
The Troubled Teen Industry / JASON FINLINSON-CASA
« on: February 19, 2004, 11:34:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-02-18 21:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-02-18 18:44:00, Timoclea wrote:


"Come back in five years and say whatever you have to say about your TBS experience.  Too often the accounts of fresh program leavers or grads are bare of detail compared to their accounts in later years, and too often we hear from program grads five to fifteen years on who say that when they were fresh program leavers or grads they either thought what they went through was okay when it wasn't or they were still too scared to talk about everything that happened.





Because of that phenomenon, those of us outside the program inmate/parent/owner/staff world have to give more weight to the accounts of people who left the program several years ago than to the accounts of people who left the program less than a year ago.





It's a bit like talking to someone fresh out of Scientology, the Unification Church, or TM.


I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association

"




Okay, everyone wanted a grad to share something and now you don't care to hear or acknowledge it unless he's been home for 5 years.  Hey, make sure you tell him he was abused and didn't even know it.  That's your M.O., right?  "


"Everyone...now you..."

*I* have had the standard of someone being out for five years pretty much since I made my first assessment of the industry and noticed the similarities of *some* programs to various cults in the mind control techniques used.

So don't count me in that "everyone."

And don't presume to tell me my "M.O."  I don't tend to ask people, "were you abused?"  I tend to ask specific kinds of questions about the food, about the rules, about the frequency of applications of restraints and the reasons for application, about the punishments for rules violations, about the reasons for commitment, about whether or not escorts were used, about the home situation, about the kinds of treatment provided and the particular problems that were being treated, about the educational resources and instruction provided, about access to communication with the outside world, etc.

Not all residential treatment is bad.  Not all places that serve some patients/inmates badly serve *all* patients/inmates badly.  There are some problems for which residential treatment is appropriate and necessary.

My gripe with TBS's is not that they exist, my gripe is the lack of external oversight to prevent fraud, abuse, malpractice and neglect.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use

--Galileo Galilei


174
The Troubled Teen Industry / Dundee
« on: February 19, 2004, 07:29:00 AM »
A man says he's a liar, then he says that all program kids are liars, is he lying?

No, I don't so much think you're lying as brainwashed.  Brainwashed into thinking and saying all program kids are liars, brainwashed into thinking physical restraints are harmless and normal , among other things.

Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813912652/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> James Madison


175
The Troubled Teen Industry / JASON FINLINSON-CASA
« on: February 18, 2004, 09:44:00 PM »
Come back in five years and say whatever you have to say about your TBS experience.  Too often the accounts of fresh program leavers or grads are bare of detail compared to their accounts in later years, and too often we hear from program grads five to fifteen years on who say that when they were fresh program leavers or grads they either thought what they went through was okay when it wasn't or they were still too scared to talk about everything that happened.

Because of that phenomenon, those of us outside the program inmate/parent/owner/staff world have to give more weight to the accounts of people who left the program several years ago than to the accounts of people who left the program less than a year ago.

It's a bit like talking to someone fresh out of Scientology, the Unification Church, or TM.

I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association


176
The Troubled Teen Industry / Majestic Ranch Prosecution
« on: February 18, 2004, 09:32:00 PM »
You program folks look a hell of a lot like the TM-ers and the Moonies and the Scientologists.

True Believers, every damn one of you.

Actions speak louder than words, and you folks' actions in shipping your kids off to be held incommunicado for months or years at a time are so effing *bizarre* that there's just nothing you can say that's going to outweigh that.

Even if there was, this True Believer scary shite wouldn't exactly be designed to inspire confidence in the rest of us who live in the real world and raise our kids, pay our taxes and bills, feed the dog, mow the lawn, and know parents with "problem teens" who manage to get through the teen years *without* shipping their kid to a private prison in Jamaica or Utah.





From the bottom of any large organization looking up through the ranks, human greed and stupidity look a lot like a conspiracy.
--S. Gilbert


177
The Troubled Teen Industry / JASON FINLINSON-CASA
« on: February 18, 2004, 09:18:00 PM »
Talk is cheap.  Dirt collects in dark corners.  Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

If you program supporters didn't have dirt in your dark corners, you wouldn't be fighting oversight tooth and nail.

It continues to amaze me to talk to law students -- college
graduates all and smarter than the average bear -- who will
seriously tell me about how dangerous mj is and how it
destroys the lives of those who use it and who, in the
very next sentence, will tell me how they and their
friends -- now CPAs, engineers, med students -- used
pot regularly through high school and college.  And
they don't see the contradiction between these statements.

We're not just talking ignorance here -- we are talking
deep down, serious, religious indoctrination.


--Buford C. Terrell, Professor of Law, South Texas College of Law


178
The Troubled Teen Industry / Pulitzer Prize Writer Looking For Book Title Suggestions
« on: February 18, 2004, 11:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-02-18 08:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hmm, couldn't resist the tongue-in-cheek response but it looks like ASR is a therapeutic boarding school, not one of these locked behavior modification facilities where therapy is either not available or only available at an additional charge. Don't know anything about the school so I'm planning to read the book.  Should be very interesting given the growing interest in TBS's which I presume are geared specifically for kids struggling with more severe emotional or mental health difficulties.  Does anyone have any first-hand experience with this school?  I'm curious what they think about the place.

 :smokin: "


ASR starts with a wilderness program, appears to operate with at least something akin to the "level" system, and does not allow inmates to receive mail from friends (*at least* for the first few months)--no matter how "clean" the friends or how harmless the mail.

I know of someone who's been there since last Summer and there's no indication that she's getting mail yet.  To my knowledge, nobody has gotten return mail from her.

ASR also ships the kids to Costa Rica for a mandatory trip prior to graduation.

Also, this student was lied to to get her there "voluntarily"---she was not told until the night she arrived that she would be unable to send and receive mail to friends---and these are NOT drug abusing friends.

Since they operate on a rotating arrival basis (they'll accept new inmates any time of year), and they're in Massachusetts, and inmates always start with a wilderness phase, that means a teenager could find herself forcibly camping out in New England in the dead of winter.

Also note that teens are scheduled every minute of every day from lights on to lights out.

I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python


Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12]