Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Karass on June 18, 2009, 01:48:31 AM
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Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.
But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.
Ideas?
Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?
It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?
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Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.
But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.
Ideas?
Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?
It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?
Remeber, you are only hearing his side of the story. Why not talk to the daughter and see what she says?
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Hmmm. Things like this are always tough to deal with regardless of the woman's age. I have a few friends who are in similar situations, as well I had experience with an abusive and controlling relationship so I acknowledge the severity of this issue. All I could suggest is a mentor, a friend or someone who this girl respects would offer to do some non-professional counseling sessions with her. I would suggest therapy or group therapy specifically pertaining to the issues of battered women, but that may not be something she is willing to participate in, and I can bet the asshole will discourage her from doing so.
The only cure to this situation is her realization and a clean cut break up with the guy, and that is most likely something she is afraid of. What makes this situation so hard to "control" from an outside perspective is the more you try to stand in the way of her emotional attachment to this guy the more she will put herself in danger by pulling away, and running to him, this can lead to him turning her against her parents completely, and then the likelihood that she will be further victimized is greater. The best thing to do is to offer the girl a haven, someone to vent to when they get into fights, and take that time to plant the seeds of doubt, and more importantly options to leave.
Most girls who get stuck in abusive relationships eventually break up with them, but all too often only after they are put in the hospital and all their friends and family are alienated. This is what happened to me, I was stupid enough to bail my abuser out of jail 3 different times after he was arrested for DV against me. The last time I landed in the emergency room with 2 broken ribs and a serious concussion. Maybe it was the hit to the head but it just clicked, I HAD to escape this man's hold on me. Something serious like this might have to happen for her to fall out of love with him... unfortunately sometimes young love can be too unconditional and it takes something really bad to break that obsession.
Forcing a child into treatment for this issue just wont work, shell get out and call him, believe me I was int he program for 2 years and beyond my better judgement I called my ex (not the same guy I mentioned, but an asshole all the same) You cant lock her up to prevent her from making mistakes, she has to make them and learn from them. Life is the ultimate "tough love" and really the only one that is effective.
All I can say is she needs a friend to confide in, one who can encourage her to leave him. Maybe even a male who she might become romantically interested in that way it gives her some incentive to leave the asshole. I don't know, just throwing out options lol.
If you think the girl will talk to me I'd be willing to give her some advice, pm me her email or myspace and I'll try to contact her.
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Thanks Femanon. I doubt I could get anywhere trying to talk to this young woman myself. I've known her for years -- but now I would just come across as another wicked parent who's trying to interfere with her love life and trying to tell her what to do...and being a friend of her dad's is a double strike against me. But I'll advise her dad to read your post and ask her if she'd be interested in a PM chat with someone who's been there, done that. If she would listen to a credible source who could help her understand that she doesn't deserve this kind of treatment, that he's not going to change, then maybe she will start thinking. Changing what's going through her head isn't going to change her heart, but maybe it's a start. I also had a similar thought as you -- when she meets a decent guy who treats her right, she'll quickly lose interest in this loser. Hopefully she doesn't have to pay too high a price to make that discovery.
Guest, you're right, I'm only hearing her dad's side of the story. On the other hand, when he told me how the neighbors down the street called the cops a few nights ago after witnessing a violent altercation out on the sidewalk, I tend to think he's not exaggerating all that much.
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Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it. If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it. I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence. Then they're back in court a few weeks later. (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.) Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...
Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work. It's very slim....but may be worth the effort. Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
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Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it. If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it. I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence. Then they're back in court a few weeks later. (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.) Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...
Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work. It's very slim....but may be worth the effort. Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it. Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.
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Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it. If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it. I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence. Then they're back in court a few weeks later. (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.) Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...
Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work. It's very slim....but may be worth the effort. Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it. Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.
I'm sorry did it hear you right?... are you considering a residential program because your daughter has low self esteem?...
I sincerely hope not, she will be bullied way more in a program than she ever would in public school.
Look, identify the problem, does she have weight issues, is she just kinda geeky does she has a significant depression problem? or all of the above... If i were in your situation I would try transferring her to a different school, maybe a private school like a creative and preforming arts academy. The atmosphere is much more tolerant of eccentricities in a school like that, to the point that most students have the same qualities and have learned to celebrate them. I am always of the opinion that the best way to influence a teenager is to give them an outlet to express themselves, and an environment and people they can trust. Contrary to popular belief teenagers are very "moldable" but they need to be the owns molding themselves, not you. The best you can do is offer an environment where positive reinforcement exists that is conducive to growing and evolving her character. Never underestimate the power of peer pressure, it can be used in a positive way too.
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Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it. If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it. I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence. Then they're back in court a few weeks later. (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.) Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...
Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work. It's very slim....but may be worth the effort. Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it. Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.
I'm sorry did it hear you right?... are you considering a residential program because your daughter has low self esteem?...
I sincerely hope not, she will be bullied way more in a program than she ever would in public school.
Look, identify the problem, does she have weight issues, is she just kinda geeky does she has a significant depression problem? or all of the above... If i were in your situation I would try transferring her to a different school, maybe a private school like a creative and preforming arts academy. The atmosphere is much more tolerant of eccentricities in a school like that, to the point that most students have the same qualities and have learned to celebrate them. I am always of the opinion that the best way to influence a teenager is to give them an outlet to express themselves, and an environment and people they can trust. Contrary to popular belief teenagers are very "moldable" but they need to be the owns molding themselves, not you. The best you can do is offer an environment where positive reinforcement exists that is conducive to growing and evolving her character. Never underestimate the power of peer pressure, it can be used in a positive way too.
Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...
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Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...
Jesus, talk about taking the kid out of the frying pan and shoving her into the fire. Have you read what any of us has been through in these places? Not only does the girl risk being bullied by the other kids, but by staff as well. This is dangerous territory, it can break a girl EASILY; particularly one who isn't strong willed in the first place.
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Not necessarily RTC. Boarding school with a therapeutic element. Problem here is not only at school, but in the community...
Jesus, talk about taking the kid out of the frying pan and shoving her into the fire. Have you read what any of us has been through in these places? Not only does the girl risk being bullied by the other kids, but by staff as well. This is dangerous territory, it can break a girl EASILY; particularly one who isn't strong willed in the first place.
Listen Up - You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I said CONSIDERING. And if you have another suggestion in protecting a battered kid, which you do not other than vague and ignorant platitudes, then cough em up. I am expressing sympathy to the other poster, and you are just spouting the same old propaganda that you read somewhere.
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I'm trying to help your defenseless child. I have BEEN through a religious cultlike troubled teen institution. I know what I have SEEN, FELT, and HEARD. I write about these experiences in an effort to get through to people who HAVE NO CLUE what goes on behind locked, closed, barred and alarmed windows and doors.
http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook (http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook)
Read this, you might Michelle Sutton's story of particular interest. Her mom sent her to a therapeutic boarding school in order to boost her self-confidence after a date rape. Her little girl never came home. I can get you in touch with the mother if you'd like.
(Edited to include the link.)
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I'm trying to help your defenseless child. I have BEEN through a religious cultlike troubled teen institution. I know what I have SEEN, FELT, and HEARD. I write about these experiences in an effort to get through to people who HAVE NO CLUE what goes on behind locked, closed, barred and alarmed windows and doors.
http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook (http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/sharebook)
Read this, you might Michelle Sutton's story of particular interest. Her mom sent her to a therapeutic boarding school in order to boost her self-confidence after a date rape. Her little girl never came home. I can get you in touch with the mother if you'd like.
(Edited to include the link.)
I haven't heard about the "help" part yet...
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Okay, I'll spell it out. I'm trying to prevent you from further consideration of this course of action because it is not a suitable solution to your daughter's problem. As I understand it, your daughter won't stand up for herself against bullies, please feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood that.
Taking your child out of her current situation and putting her into a TBS, even one touting 'self-esteem' as an item in their curriculum can have potentially serious emotional and physical repurcussions. Again, I urge you to read Michelle Sutton's story.
Send me an E-mail at [email protected].
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A real possibility for both teens maybe a summer or a high school semester abroad. Not to a wacky TBS, but to a normal healthy program. These program DO NOT have a pseudo-psych component. There are a variety of those types of programs. They are certainly cheaper than a TBS, and some of them look like they'd be a lot of fun. And who would not love a few months in Venice, the Galapagos, or some other interesting location.
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Sadly, in far too many cases with DV, it is only when the victim decides she's had enough that a stop can be put to it. If she's not ready, it's as if she's completely blind to it. I've seen women bring their little kids to court hoping that will sway the judge in favor of giving the abuser a lighter sentence. Then they're back in court a few weeks later. (In IL charges can be brought by police & other agencies even if the victim is uncooperative.) Women will come in bruised black & blue, to plead for their guy to be released etc...
Actually, if you can get her to a battered women's shelter for a look around at what others have been through, there's a slim chance that could work. It's very slim....but may be worth the effort. Particularly if former victims would be willing to talk to her.
Well, here's another point that should be considered: parents are supposed to protect their kids, not just wait until they grow up or become ready to fend for themselves. My kid gets bullied all the time, and believe me, I have torn my hair out about it. Gotten nowhere by contacting the other parents, school officials, puffing up all 5'2" of myself to confront the other kids, pep-talking my daughter, body-guarding her, etc. Ultimately I have to consider: should I take her out of this situation altogether? Since she resists talk therapy, are there residential options that might take her out of harms way and offer her support for resolving her self-esteem issues? I don't know how old the girl in question is; mine just turned 14.
LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?
How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
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LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?
How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
Who's the troll, asshole?
First of all, learn to spell; it will make you seem less ignorant. Second, I wasn't equating one thing to the other - therapy and bullying. But talk therapy might give her insight about why it keeps happening and what she can do about it. Third, who the fuck asked you?
As the creator of this thread points out, there is a lot of vitriol against "programs" but very little good advice about alternatives.
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LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?
How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
Who's the troll, asshole?
First of all, learn to spell; it will make you seem less ignorant. Second, I wasn't equating one thing to the other - therapy and bullying. But talk therapy might give her insight about why it keeps happening and what she can do about it. Third, who the fuck asked you?
As the creator of this thread points out, there is a lot of vitriol against "programs" but very little good advice about alternatives.
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In the sliding scale of "does not not need institutionalization" to "needs institutionalization" there is no room for programs.
First steps towards sanity would be family functional therapy (FFT) or community-based real therapies. Battered women's shelters have been already mentioned. Getting her to talk to an older girl who went through the exact things she did should not be hard!
When children are in need of real inpatient treatment that's why the state has juvenile justice/mental health programs (yes, they can be abusive too, we know- but it's almost never NEARLY as bad).
Hell, bring the GUY onto this board, he might fit in with the hatred lords around here who can tell him to stop in a way he'll understand.
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just a quick thought maybe the problem lies within our own society
when we have girls like Brittany Spears trying to be a role model for young girls ,
maybe teaching your daughters self worth and education is what ensures she will not have to
marry just ANYONE to support her ,look at madonna shes a has-been
and still going nowhere .
When Television and society raise our kids at early ages what do we expect ?
last but not least teaching boys how to treat girls is another issue so when they grow up
they aren't like the b/f you just mention ,
Parents need to be parenting when the kids are young if they expect to see the harvest
of a nice crop.
Facing problems and dealing with them head-on is alot less difficult then
waiting until the problems get to big to handle .
Learn to have authority over your children w/ they are young and be a good loving
parent ----or stay out of the business of having kids , break the cycle !
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In the sliding scale of "does not not need institutionalization" to "needs institutionalization" there is no room for programs.
First steps towards sanity would be family functional therapy (FFT) or community-based real therapies. Battered women's shelters have been already mentioned. Getting her to talk to an older girl who went through the exact things she did should not be hard!
When children are in need of real inpatient treatment that's why the state has juvenile justice/mental health programs (yes, they can be abusive too, we know- but it's almost never NEARLY as bad).
Hell, bring the GUY onto this board, he might fit in with the hatred lords around here who can tell him to stop in a way he'll understand.
Better yet, send somebody do go kick the shit out of him . (at least that's what my people would do!)
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I absolutely agree with the suggestion that the 14 year old who has been bullied should talk to an older girl whose been in her shoes. If there are any self defense type classes you could send her too, most not only teach self-defense, but self-control and self-confidence as well.
I mentioned my own child earlier on, I actually asked her what advice she might give another girl facing these kinds of problems. Her suggestions all revolved around the girl taking action for herself. Until she is equipped to do that, she will continue to allow herself to be bullied, no matter where you send her. This is often the case with battered women as well.
I completely agree with the poster who said that parents should teach their children from a young age to be face problems head on and the poster who said we should teach our boys to be decent men and our girls how to avoid getting involved with boys/men who are not. What we do when they make a choice to ignore this advice is crucial. Offering help, offering support, and hope for a better future are sometimes all that we can do. Sometimes we have to step back and let our children stand up for themselves, as hard as it can be (from a parents perspective) to do. They do need guidance in how to do this though.
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For the fourteen year old girl being bullied. If SHE wants to get out of the situation and the problem really is the community as well as her school, how about regular college prep boarding school? Ones with free communication, the students can go home whenever they want and no weird procedures. There's a lot of them around and you can probably find one catered to what she needs (is she interested in art, does she want a small school, lowest staff-student ratio, urban or rural setting). If she's looking for a fresh start she can get it and most regular college prep boarding school DO have counselling services or atleast they can refer her to community based support. Also she should be able to visit any school before hand and get a feel for whether she'll like it. This is only providing she wants to go.... because fortunately these schools only take actually willing students.
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LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?
How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
Who's the troll, asshole?
First of all, learn to spell; it will make you seem less ignorant. Second, I wasn't equating one thing to the other - therapy and bullying. But talk therapy might give her insight about why it keeps happening and what she can do about it. Third, who the fuck asked you?
As the creator of this thread points out, there is a lot of vitriol against "programs" but very little good advice about alternatives.
Actually "who-troll" is a term some of us use around here (albeit way too often) to refer to a parent who is trolling this site in support of the program or in support of subjecting their child to one.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, there's really no sense in asking us if ANY kind of residential treatment would be appropriate... most of us are in strong opposition of all kinds of residential treatment including those that market themselves as therapeutic boarding school. If you knew as much about this subject as we do you might not be so quick to be defensive against my friend hurrikayne here, there are significant reasons why it would sound like a ridiculous idea to find any kind of residential placement because you feel your daughter has self esteem issues. If you knew the kind of system and unethical methods that plague this ENTIRE industry you wouldn't even consider that as an option.
In your defense you probably believe there is a difference between the big scary programs we went to, and the new and improved "therapeutic boarding schools" you've probably heard about... I'm sure your still under the impression that there are good programs out there that would be capable of helping your daughter in a way you can't. As much as I would like to tell you there is hope you might be right, the chances of finding a legitimate "theraputic boarding school" are slim because they ALL market themselves that way, especially the dangerous programs.
I wouldn't risk your daughter's life and sanity on your ability to call bullshit on these corporate con men... too many have been fooled before and no offense but I don't exactly see you as the exception.
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For the record, I did not write the below:
hurrikayne wrote:
LOL. Makes no sence. If you want to take her out of the situation, wouldn't home schooling be the alternative? How does "taking her out of the situation" equate to putting her in a private prison?
How is bullying brought about by her "resisting talk therapy"? If I attend "talk therapy" will that guarantee I won't be mugged. Nice pretzal logic who-troll.
Was someone else - NOT me. (Those who know me are aware of this already I'm certain...just stating it for those who do not.)
...and thank you Fem.
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Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.
But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.
Ideas?
Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?
It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?
I don't think anybody here has been helpful. Classic case of a mission "against" something without anything to replace it with.
You didn't say how old the young woman is. I would say if she is under 18, then the cops should be called any and every time the guy lays a hand on her. After all, she is a minor and violence against her is child abuse!
I suppose the parents can require her to attend a support group, and tie her allowance and car privileges, etc. to it. Without sequestering her, however, ultimately she will do whatever she wants.
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You didn't say how old the young woman is. I would say if she is under 18, then the cops should be called any and every time the guy lays a hand on her. After all, she is a minor and violence against her is child abuse!
Aww I underestimated the ratio of what's not cancerous in your spirit. You who actually thought up something thoughtful to contribute.
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The turning point in the Nordic countries when it came to actually taking anti-bullying policies serious came when a Swedish family sued the pants out of a school. Since then our politicians have been on the back of the school directors to make sure that the policies are followed to the letter.
Victims of bullies should never end up in a program.
The bully neither.
The difference between having a student with a problem and bullying is when the third person enters the conflict. Our present strategy is to prevent the "angry" kid from having followers and it works better than putting consequences on the bully himself. It is often seen that they see even negative attention and consequences as rewards, so they must never be rewarded. In fact our strategy has stolen something from the programs we use in the public school system now. If the bully is prevented to have followers it functions like a "social ban" and any kid will socialize, so he will be motivated to change his ways.
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The turning point in the Nordic countries when it came to actually taking anti-bullying policies serious came when a Swedish family sued the pants out of a school. Since then our politicians have been on the back of the school directors to make sure that the policies are followed to the letter.
Victims of bullies should never end up in a program.
The bully neither.
The difference between having a student with a problem and bullying is when the third person enters the conflict. Our present strategy is to prevent the "angry" kid from having followers and it works better than putting consequences on the bully himself. It is often seen that they see even negative attention and consequences as rewards, so they must never be rewarded. In fact our strategy has stolen something from the programs we use in the public school system now. If the bully is prevented to have followers it functions like a "social ban" and any kid will socialize, so he will be motivated to change his ways.
You make me laugh!!! In other words let the bully beat the shit out of the kid and hope that social pressure will "cure" him - and to hell with the victim. As for as the girl with the abusive boyfriend, we'll try to socially isolate him and hope that she doesn't get killed. Very wise, indeed!
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In the school setting it works well. Of course the bully is not free on consequences. He is often sent down to a therapist who will try to analyze him. We use only 1/100 of the medicine on kids you do in your country, because 50% of the diagnoses made on children are bullshit, because the criterias are written for adults, so the bully will see it as a waste of time.
In a relationship other parameters needs to be used. Some years ago the police changed their policies. They can and do press charges without the aid of the wife. They take her down to the hospital and secure the evidences with photos regardless of her statement etc. Suddenly the husband can no longer blame his wife for his stay in prison, so there is no need for additional pressure or violence to get the charges dropped. He can send a thanks to a career-minded policeman or prosecutor.
If Children are involved and there is a suspicion that they could have witness the violence, the social services could decide that the family needs a "relief family". In Denmark there is an option between letting the children remain in the family and place them in the fostercare system. A "Relief family" is a family where the children goes for a overnight stay or a weekend stay every 2'nd or 3'rd week, while their bioparents keep custody. Then the bioparents have time for therapy or other tasks decided by system. Once the problem in the family is solved the "relief family" steps out. Often it is done for a full year. It means fewer kids in our foster care system. Foster kids are expensive and a full-time placement outside the home is always the second best solution never an ideal solution.
In this case there are no children involved and I guess that the police due to their policies is depended of the womans testimony, so the best approach will be for her to be contacted by a young woman she can relate to, who have been through the same. She is the only one who can break out of the relationship. No one else.
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As the creator of this thread points out, there is a lot of vitriol against "programs" but very little good advice about alternatives.
You do make a good point, but look at this point of veiw. Generally speaking, the alternative to sending a child to a TC or even a boarding school, could go something like this..
You do your best with your child. Your child may hang out with people you do not like. They may stay out late. Some may experiment with drugs, and every so often, occasionally, drugs may ruin some child somewhere's life and there will be an unhappy ending.
Noone said that it would be easy to have children. What in life is? the alternative is to deal with the situation to the best of your ability whatever that situation may be, and when push comes to shove, no matter how good you do, your child, at somepoint in their life may possibly go through experiences that you wish they never would. But, those hard times are often a part of becoming an adult in my opinion.
In your case, I would not send child to a boarding school. I wouldn t even consider it, ans considerring it is the first step towards doing it. It's too bad that talk therapy isn't working, but it very often does not. Have you ever turned the looking glass on yourself or your household. The best way for a parent to teach is through example I think.
I don't know too much about boarding schools, but I have never really heard a good story about one- only bad stories about stupid hierarchies and will breaking in the name of a cause. Also, if it were me in your position, as much as it would pain me to see my child harmed, I do not know that it would be a long-term solution to run from the problem. Why does the community dislike your daughter? There has to be some reason.
I don't know, but I think that the best thing for her might be a positive role model. Also, I think an excellent thing might be martail arts classes. Thye teach discipline, confidence, character, and of course how to defend yourself.
It is not impossible for something to change your child's life for the better. But in my opinion, you have to think outside of the problem, and you have to believe that a solution is possible. Sending your child to a boarding school, in my veiw, is like giving up in a way. I do not thinnk that you should give up on your child, or yourself. Try talking to as many people who you consider to be very successful parents as possible. see what insights they may be able to share with you.
And again, I don't mean to be a dick, but you might want to look at yourself a bit, too. Do you get bullied? Cause, if the whole community is ganging up on your child, they are treating you with little respect.
This is just my veiw as an outside perspective. maybe I am wrong.. maybe I am right. If you are uninterested in my response, let me know.. I have no problem deleting it.
As far as the other girl, I do not have a solution,myself.. that is a rough one. My desire would be to kick the dude ass, but that will only push her more towards him. I think that this is one that just takes time, and being there for the child.
Paul
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The girl I mentioned in the OP is 17, her b/f is at least 19, maybe 20 -- either way, he's an adult and technically she's a minor. I asked the dad why they don't have a restraining order yet. Maybe they will by next week. I can only guess why the cops didn't arrest him when he beat her up in plain sight in front of a neighbor's house, who then called the cops. I guess if cops don't witness a crime, and the girl says everything's fine, then no reason to make an arrest.
My personal opinion is that HE is the one that should be removed from the situation, not her. Get a R.O., get a cellphone video of him kicking the crap out of her, whatever...get some evidence and have him thrown in jail. At least that's what I told her dad. Much as I hate cops, I hate assholes even more...