Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 03, 2006, 04:18:00 PM
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Remember your first boyfriend or girlfriend after straight??
I was sexually active before the program so by the time I got out a year later, my first boyfriend was one lucky guy!
On a more serious note though, I remember getting very defensive if he questioned me in any way, or tried to make a suggestion I didn't like, I was pretty quick to let him know I would NOT be controlled.
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only a year in the "'gram"?...good lord....lucky fucking you!...i wish i could say that!....lol...that would've been a dream come true to most of us in that shit hole!...hippie
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yeah, well maybe you are right about that, but then again, I would not try an compare anyone elses experience there based only on their time spent in that shit hole. Then again, I never went back to be on staff either, so there's somethin to be said about that too
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Whoever said that has you there hippie.
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On 2006-03-03 14:40:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"only a year in the "'gram"?...good lord....lucky fucking you!...i wish i could say that!....lol...that would've been a dream come true to most of us in that shit hole!...hippie"
I saw people come in and get broken down mentally in
a matter of weeks/couple of months sometimes..One or two just sat and stared for months on end looking catatonic.
But yeah 1 year is better than 4 years but still...
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On 2006-03-03 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Whoever said that has you there hippie."
:nworthy: :nworthy:
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i guess...if you knew the reason why i did that,you'd understand....after that place,i had nothing..no high school diploma or college degree
just a ged....i went on staff to get in on the ground floor of somthing i could use to better myself! not to be an asshole....i tried college after i finished straight,but it was more of sitting in a blue chair for me!i couldn't do it! i didn't want to be mowing yards at fort belvor the rest of my life and i loved helping ppl out!
who was going to HIRE a ged /high school drop out?
no one was!...i was a trainee for 5 weeks and never really stood a chance of being a staff member...they never wanted me to start with....
it was just a cruel joke they played on me....whether ol' one year believes me or not,i don't give a flying fuck ok? no one who didn't totally kiss someones ass got out in one fucking year! dig it? i never knew anyone who was totally non-compliant in that place get out of straight in one fucking year! all i said was they were fucking lucky!....can you argue that?'cause i can't! even lulu couter was a fucking trainee,man......she was in the same schooling predicament as me when she finally got out of the kids program....she couldn't "do" school either! it was way too much like straight to her! all i was trying to do was get some kind of experience so i could have some kind of life after my ordeal in straight! thats all! they were the only ones that would give me a fucking chance without a college degree! it was a huge mistake!HUGE....and it cost me dearly......but i'll bet ol' one year
doesn't understand that,huh?......my motives were honest....i was told straight had fucking changed and was changing.....i thought i would actually help ppl in there....that was my big stupid mistake!they didn't want anyone actually helping the kids in there...they wanted control freaks for staff....that wasn't me!...lol....she or he has nothing on me....i'm glad you got out in one year....i'm glad thats all they got out of you...
i wasn't allowed to date anyone for 28 1/2 months!
thats why i said lucky fucking you!....nice to see the misinterpetation or twisting of my words and what i went through.....thanks....hippie
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yo, why don't you just calm down and breathe you, hippie ex-staff idiot.
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I know what hip is sayin'. By the time you were in there that long you just didn't know anything else. Almost every vestige of your self-identity was gone by then and you had been kept out of circulation in the world for so long that any kind of normal social skills were extremely atrophied. If all you knew was the cult for that long you would have a hard time leaving it.
I had a real hard time after $tr8, mostly 'cause I was in there so damn long. I had a nervous breakdown a year after I graduated because everything in the world was so foreign to me, well, that an' I had been eatin' LSD twice a week. I had none of the social skills which I had relied on in the time before $tr8. I spent years livin' as a sort of crazy homeless kid due to paranoia 'n' such. I still never went on staff though. ...Uhhh...I'm not takin' sides or nothin' I pretty much think ever'ones program pretty much sucked Republican cock.
So... it's like instead of a high school sweetheart, I had a $tr8 sweetheart an' me an' this one real cute girl with long brown curly hair used to catch eyes all the time. I remember when she was first introduced to group and I caught her eye. We caught eyes our whole programs. I always expected we would get reported at some point but we never were. We both knew whenever we were outta there that we would get together. And we did. We stayed together for about 2 years after $tr8.
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geez man.....i get worked up too easy.....all i was saying is she was fucking lucky.....to me that would've been a dream come true....unfortunitly it wasn't for me and just about everyone else i knew.....thats all....what pissed me off is you called that "witch hunt" me being on staff....that so far from the truth...i was used and thrown away.....then stalked for many years because of that witch hunt....i wasn't ever a real staff member dude/sister....i was a fool who wanted desparatly better himself...thats all....well,whatever.....hip
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hippie ex-staff idiot.....yep,that says it all!
ex-staff idiot....get real.....***** hip
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So who was your first git down girl after straight hip ??
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On 2006-03-03 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-03-03 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Whoever said that has you there hippie."
:nworthy: :nworthy: "
I totally don't get this.
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On 2006-03-03 18:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
I totally don't get this."
Nevermind; now I do - the odd choice of words threw me at first.
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when i 7 stepped,there was no one else really...
there was about 8 of us in the "society".....like you did,i had to wait for newer 7 steppers to come!then i had to "do" thier time in after care as well!by the time there were enough girls in the "society",i already grew my hair out and was wearing tye dyes!saying the "druggie slang" etc etc....unfortunitly,the girls and guys coming out of there were scared of me! they thought i was ready to "puff up" and "drop paper"......in 83 long hair/being a hippie etc,still wasn't cool with the real world girls either....the dead wasn't cool with everyone yet....so i was,like in high school,alone for a good while....the first girlfriend i had was an indian girl[from india]
and she had to "hide" me from her family! we met at places other than her house.....she had to call me...i couldn't call her! it was a bummer...
after straight,i mean after i quit my association with that place,i met up with a real cool pair of girls.....i was back out and i had gotten pulled over again,arrested etc....this time i had drugs,i really was f-ing up,so to speak,and i had a 1000 hits of liquid acid!...the cops searched everything ,but failed to realise they had a real crime this time!to my benifit,the acid was in a visine bottle!.....after i did my rounds of bailing myself out of 2 cop stations worth of default warrents,i was 50 miles from my car!my arrest were so common that the cops knew me,so i borrowed 5.00 from one of them and walked accross the street to a dunkin' donuts....wondering how the f- i was going to get home....to my surprise,there were 2 dead head girls sitting in the place! i sat down with them and we talked for awhile....they said they'd take me back to hingham
i made a deal with them that i'd hook them up with some liquid if they did that....after i got to where my car was,i jumped the fence and got the liquid and the sugar cubes and we went back to where i was staying.....well,i got them both! lol....no shit! and one of them was my girlfriend for a few shows too!.....it was a kodak moment for me....hippie
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whatever hippie, why don't you go back to working on staff and tell your lame fucking druggie stories. idiot
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I was staff. 5th phase trainee for 5 months and paid trainee for 6 months after I commenced. I appilied for Junior and got fired instead.
Hippy, lets go apply at SIBS. I bet they'll hire us. They'll prolly let us get high too. :smokin:
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cool!
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after you man....after you....
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whatever hippie, why don't you go back to working on staff and tell your lame fucking druggie stories. idiot
:lol: :lol: sorry i'm not perfect....
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On 2006-03-03 17:25:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"i guess...if you knew the reason why i did that,you'd understand....after that place,i had nothing..no high school diploma or college degree
just a ged....i went on staff to get in on the ground floor of somthing i could use to better myself! not to be an asshole....i tried college after i finished straight,but it was more of sitting in a blue chair for me!i couldn't do it! i didn't want to be mowing yards at fort belvor the rest of my life and i loved helping ppl out!
who was going to HIRE a ged /high school drop out?
no one was!...i was a trainee for 5 weeks and never really stood a chance of being a staff member...they never wanted me to start with....
it was just a cruel joke they played on me....whether ol' one year believes me or not,i don't give a flying fuck ok? no one who didn't totally kiss someones ass got out in one fucking year! dig it? i never knew anyone who was totally non-compliant in that place get out of straight in one fucking year! all i said was they were fucking lucky!....can you argue that?'cause i can't! even lulu couter was a fucking trainee,man......she was in the same schooling predicament as me when she finally got out of the kids program....she couldn't "do" school either! it was way too much like straight to her! all i was trying to do was get some kind of experience so i could have some kind of life after my ordeal in straight! thats all! they were the only ones that would give me a fucking chance without a college degree! it was a huge mistake!HUGE....and it cost me dearly......but i'll bet ol' one year
doesn't understand that,huh?......my motives were honest....i was told straight had fucking changed and was changing.....i thought i would actually help ppl in there....that was my big stupid mistake!they didn't want anyone actually helping the kids in there...they wanted control freaks for staff....that wasn't me!...lol....she or he has nothing on me....i'm glad you got out in one year....i'm glad thats all they got out of you...
i wasn't allowed to date anyone for 28 1/2 months!
thats why i said lucky fucking you!....nice to see the misinterpetation or twisting of my words and what i went through.....thanks....hippie"
hip just ignore that shit
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hip just ignore that shit
ok...its hard to do,man.....thank you though...
they throw my "attempt" to better myself at me
like i wanted to enjoy hurting ppl....thats just not true....the reality was i volunteered for more grief and angueish....boston str8 played me
and took a lot of my "zip" whatever "zip" i had left,out of me.....and "conned" my friends into helping them to ruin whatever life i had going after straight ....hip
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Hip, I respect what you say but you gotta understand that a lot of times you come across as thinking that you had it so different or so much worse off than others. You didn't. That may be where people are getting irritated with you.
My $.02.
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I'm just irritated with his long hair. :flame: He needs to cut that shit and become a respectible Punk Rocker. :grin:
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On 2006-03-03 13:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Remember your first boyfriend or girlfriend after straight??
I was sexually active before the program so by the time I got out a year later, my first boyfriend was one lucky guy!
On a more serious note though, I remember getting very defensive if he questioned me in any way, or tried to make a suggestion I didn't like, I was pretty quick to let him know I would NOT be controlled."
It was torture putting up with Str8's sexual repression! (http://http://www.allemoticons.com/Angry/Angry_1018.gif) I bet the executives never got laid, so natually we couldn't get any either! ::bwahaha:: I only had one social skill. I could lick, suck and fuck anyone, anytime.(http://http://planetsmilies.net/7195.gif)(http://http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/images/smilies/sex.gif) It was after Str8 that I became Druggie Whore. What can I say, practice makes perfect. And did I ever practice!(http://http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-037.gif)
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i don't mean too....unlike most ppl,i wasn't able to get away from that place for a lot longer time...my mom worked there for years...my total involvement in that cult was 6 1/2 years....geez......it makes me so mad man....i don't know....whatever....i just won't say anymore
stuff on here....will that fix it?....i just happen to remember so much of it...like yesterday.
i can name you a great deal of ppl that had it worse than me....i just happen to know and have a lot of personal experiences with that fucking place....for instance,mel riddle was my truant officer....he busted me way before straight ever came into the picture....so i happened to know him personally....that doesn't make me special or a know it all,just that i did know him better....
i was involved in 3 straights,as much as it sucks,i was....my involvement in there was long man....in the end,i was trashed and sabatoged,and made a screw up even though i wasn't.....i found out through one of the ppl involved in my "firing" that they had me arrested and many other things....i honestly don't know anyone that had that happen to them AFTER they were 7 stepped for 3 1/2 years,do you? 'cause i want to talk with them...i'm still having a real hard time with this new info....for a real long time i didn't think everything was bull shit,ask starry,he'll tell you about our first phone call!
it kind of took him off balance....i've kept quiet about straight for a long time dude,at least 18+ yrs!i havn't seen anyone from there till 6 months ago.....i'm sorry i come off that way.....i wish you knew me...you'd understand that i'm not that kind of person...hippie
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On 2006-03-04 14:20:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"i don't mean too....unlike most ppl,i wasn't able to get away from that place for a lot longer time..
Right there you're assuming an awful lot. You have no idea what any of us have gone through or for how long.
i just won't say anymore
stuff on here....will that fix it?.
That's not what I was saying. In fact, I tried to be careful in how I worded it so that you wouldn't get upset. Obviously I failed.
i just happen to remember so much of it...like yesterday.
so do most of us.
i can name you a great deal of ppl that had it worse than me....i just happen to know and have a lot of personal experiences with that fucking place....for instance,mel riddle was my truant officer....he busted me way before straight ever came into the picture....so i happened to know him personally....that doesn't make me special or a know it all,just that i did know him better....
ok, you knew him better. some people knew Newton better, some people had family involved with the board for years after them getting out.
i was involved in 3 straights,as much as it sucks,i was....my involvement in there was long man....in the end,i was trashed and sabatoged,and made a screw up even though i wasn't.....i found out through one of the ppl involved in my "firing" that they had me arrested and many other things..
Ok. I know of about 3 people that similar things happened to that were on staff in St. Pete and Orlando.
i honestly don't know anyone that had that happen to them AFTER they were 7 stepped for 3 1/2 years,do you?
Yes.
'cause i want to talk with them...i'm still having a real hard time with this new info....for a real long time i didn't think everything was bull shit,ask starry,he'll tell you about our first phone call!
Sorry, no can do. They're still deep in the kool aid and refuse to talk about any of it.
it kind of took him off balance....i've kept quiet about straight for a long time dude,at least 18+ yrs!i havn't seen anyone from there till 6 months ago.....i'm sorry i come off that way.....i wish you knew me...you'd understand that i'm not that kind of person...hippie"
fair enough
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everyone is too fucking sensitive
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druggie whore you kill me with your smiley's....lol......they're hillarious!...cool
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On 2006-03-03 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"whatever hippie, why don't you go back to working on staff and tell your lame fucking druggie stories. idiot"
I'll bet that his stories are probably way more intersting than any of your are...fucking dick.
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On 2006-03-03 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"whatever hippie, why don't you go back to working on staff and tell your lame fucking druggie stories. idiot"
I'll bet that his stories are way more interesting than any of yours are.
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I'll bet that his stories are way more interesting than any of yours are.
thank you....my whole f-ing "tenure" was with "the newt"{a type of slimy lizard or salamander}....i was only in virginia a short time
they "graduated" me out of guilt{i guess.all my "druggie friends were the staff in virginia}....i was falsly started over in 82 after 128 days on 5th! i know this because when i was chosen to go up to virginia to "secure" the homes before we went up,mark newton{millers one year in the "'gram" son},stayed at my house.....the first night back at my parents house he asked me if i had any music
to listen to....i told him"only what got me started over...everything else got thrown away as a stash....." then he rolled his eyes and said "you should've never gotten started over....that was a mistake..." you guys can't imagine how pissed i was to hear that...but i had to "act" like i wasn't of course,i didn't trust him...shit he was a sr.staff and millers son...
he told me that the staff that did that jumped to conclutions and unlike us,couldn't admit they were wrong.....the steps they forced us to apply,
didn't apply to them....i.e.....staff can't be wrong....can you imagine?" uhhhh,you're back on 5th phase,sorry we started you over,we were wrong"...lol...right!...it was and never {as far as i know} going to happen,so i wound up doing everything again!....no,the ANON persons right,i didn't get the physical torture that many of the ppl i saw in there get.after i tried to kill myself in there on my 3rd day and did recieve some physical abuse in my first month there,i realised the ONLY way i was getting out of that place was to comply like everyone else and just wanted to finish the fucking place....but nooooo, i had to do the thing all over again because jim sailor and shawna arnow couldn't be found as wrong for starting me over....i made a vow to myself that they weren't going to beat me the day they started me over...i never admitted that i was wrong on anything i was started over for!..at some point i decided that i would become something in that field so i could help stop the shit i saw in there from happening to someone else! when i did finally finish that place,i tried to go to college....but i couldn't do it!i found myself playing pinball instead of being in class! being in class was too much like straight for me.....i kept on working shit jobs and kept my promise to the group that i would come in and see how they were doing...something i did way after the "group" i knew was long gone or graduated.....since school didn't work for me,i felt that even though i couldn't be a licensed counselor,pscycologist or the others,i could give the others in that shit hole some hope....something that i never got while i was in there....3 1/2 years later,a very controlling "hitler type" trained by straight to be like that to me,mother and nothing but dead end jobs,i decided that maybe being on staff might give me a ground floor to work with to become something in the field of helping ppl...{i didn't want to work at straight.other wise i would've done just that years BEFORE.....}the rest is history....i got fired 5 weeks later and told i'd be arrested if i ever set foot on the straight grounds in boston again! i was black balled by the 7 step society too{they were all told i was doing drugs,even though i wasn't informed of that or even told why i was fired!} i
slowly declined to nothingness,not by choice,but by subtle pressure.....i gues my decline wasn't fast enough for them up there so they speeded it up and had me arrested for bull shit driving offenses{i know this because i went down to virginia to fix the charges i was being charged with and found out that i really didn't have those charges to begin with} i lost every once of digity i had in my venture up in boston...lost my girlfriend and my friends in harvard square because a stranger blew in that no one had ever seen while i was out of state and told them i was a dangerous person,a pimp and a heroin addict! when i came home everyone was scared of me....i thought everyone was nuts,but after talking to a person that was assigned to help them get me fired,i found out that they had me arrested,had my job i was at after my 5 week staff witch hunt,taken away from me! those s.o.b.'s were following me around! just like any CULT DOES to it's "screw up's"! this followed me for quite a few years after i was fired! it even happened up where i live today,15 yrs ago!.....please dude,who ever you are,if you know someone else that had a smearing like that done to them
,i'd love to talk to them! it's eating me up...you make me feel like i'm back in group again,i'm just finding out truths to things i never gave that fucking place credit for doing...
i just thought i had a black cloud of bad luck or something....because of what they did to me,i wound up on the streets in boston standing on the street corners wondering if i should just jump out in front of a vehicle etc etc....i was homeless,living in shelters...choosing that over living at home with my family because i didn't want anymore "tough love" done to me....geez....
it fucks me off that i feel i have to explain what exactly happened to me in my 6 1/2 years involved in that CULT to you so you'll understand me better....so there it is....i was a big stupid fucking fool...ok?......hippie
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very interesting hippie, can you please tell us more?
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geez dude,what more can i tell you?...there's tons i could tell you....are you serious? or just screwing with my head? i can't tell anymore...hip
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Take it E-Z Hip. I suggest you go for a hike in the woods somewhere outside 'a' town. It's a little chilly out still, but the Sun is shinin'. When was the last time you took a walk in the woods alone ?? Or bust out the mountain bike(if ya got one) and feel the wind in your face.
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Take it E-Z Hip
it's cool....that might be a good thing,but no,i don't have a bike.i guess i feel like i was back in the "'gram" again explaining myself away to staff...lol....that book"help at any cost" really fucked me up reading it....it brought back so many feelings i hadn't felt in a long time...hip
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On 2006-03-04 13:04:00, 6Reagan6Youth6 wrote:
"I'm just irritated with his long hair. :flame: He needs to cut that shit and become a respectible Punk Rocker. :grin:
"
I was a rebel from the day I left school,
Grew my hair long and broke all the rules.
I'd sit and listen to my records all day,
With big ambitions of when I could play.
My parents taught me what life was about,
So I grew into the type they warned me about!
They said my friends my were just an unruley mob.
And I should...
Get a haircut and get a real job.
Get a haircut and get a real job.
Clean your act up and don't be a slob.
Get it together like your big brother Bob.
Why don't you?
Get a haircut and get a real job.
I even tried that nine to five scheme.
I told myself that it was all a bad dream.
I found a band and some good songs to play.
Now I, party all night, I sleep all day.
I met this chick she was my number one fan.
She took me home to meet her mommy and dad.
They took one look at me and said "OH MY GOD!"
Get a haircut and get a real job!
Get a haircut and get a real job.
Clean your act up and don't be a slob.
Get it together like your big brother Bob.
Why don't you?
Get a haircut...and get a real job.
Get a real job...
Why don't you get a real job?
Get a real job.
Why don't you get a real job?
I hit the big time with my Rock N' Roll band.
The future's brighter now then I ever planned!
I'm ten times richer then my big brother Bob.
But...He's got a haircut and "real job!"
Get a haircut and get a real job.
Clean your act up and don't be a slob.
Get it together like your big brother Bob.
Why don't you?
Get a haircut and get a real job.
Get a real job...
Why don't you get a real job?
Get a real job.
Why don't you get a real job?
I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
---Albert Camus
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thats me in a nut shell!...lol....it didn't work,but thats the message i got from my "higher powers"....hip
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great hippie, now you and pirate go on your walk please
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On 2006-03-05 09:50:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"I'll bet that his stories are way more interesting than any of yours are.
thank you....my whole f-ing "tenure" was with "the newt"{a type of slimy lizard or salamander}....i was only in virginia a short time
they "graduated" me out of guilt{i guess.all my "druggie friends were the staff in virginia}....i was falsly started over in 82 after 128 days on 5th! i know this because when i was chosen to go up to virginia to "secure" the homes before we went up,mark newton{millers one year in the "'gram" son},stayed at my house.....the first night back at my parents house he asked me if i had any music
to listen to....i told him"only what got me started over...everything else got thrown away as a stash....." then he rolled his eyes and said "you should've never gotten started over....that was a mistake..." you guys can't imagine how pissed i was to hear that...but i had to "act" like i wasn't of course,i didn't trust him...shit he was a sr.staff and millers son...
he told me that the staff that did that jumped to conclutions and unlike us,couldn't admit they were wrong.....the steps they forced us to apply,
didn't apply to them....i.e.....staff can't be wrong....can you imagine?" uhhhh,you're back on 5th phase,sorry we started you over,we were wrong"...lol...right!...it was and never {as far as i know} going to happen,so i wound up doing everything again!....no,the ANON persons right,i didn't get the physical torture that many of the ppl i saw in there get.after i tried to kill myself in there on my 3rd day and did recieve some physical abuse in my first month there,i realised the ONLY way i was getting out of that place was to comply like everyone else and just wanted to finish the fucking place....but nooooo, i had to do the thing all over again because jim sailor and shawna arnow couldn't be found as wrong for starting me over....i made a vow to myself that they weren't going to beat me the day they started me over...i never admitted that i was wrong on anything i was started over for!..at some point i decided that i would become something in that field so i could help stop the shit i saw in there from happening to someone else! when i did finally finish that place,i tried to go to college....but i couldn't do it!i found myself playing pinball instead of being in class! being in class was too much like straight for me.....i kept on working shit jobs and kept my promise to the group that i would come in and see how they were doing...something i did way after the "group" i knew was long gone or graduated.....since school didn't work for me,i felt that even though i couldn't be a licensed counselor,pscycologist or the others,i could give the others in that shit hole some hope....something that i never got while i was in there....3 1/2 years later,a very controlling "hitler type" trained by straight to be like that to me,mother and nothing but dead end jobs,i decided that maybe being on staff might give me a ground floor to work with to become something in the field of helping ppl...{i didn't want to work at straight.other wise i would've done just that years BEFORE.....}the rest is history....i got fired 5 weeks later and told i'd be arrested if i ever set foot on the straight grounds in boston again! i was black balled by the 7 step society too{they were all told i was doing drugs,even though i wasn't informed of that or even told why i was fired!} i
slowly declined to nothingness,not by choice,but by subtle pressure.....i gues my decline wasn't fast enough for them up there so they speeded it up and had me arrested for bull shit driving offenses{i know this because i went down to virginia to fix the charges i was being charged with and found out that i really didn't have those charges to begin with} i lost every once of digity i had in my venture up in boston...lost my girlfriend and my friends in harvard square because a stranger blew in that no one had ever seen while i was out of state and told them i was a dangerous person,a pimp and a heroin addict! when i came home everyone was scared of me....i thought everyone was nuts,but after talking to a person that was assigned to help them get me fired,i found out that they had me arrested,had my job i was at after my 5 week staff witch hunt,taken away from me! those s.o.b.'s were following me around! just like any CULT DOES to it's "screw up's"! this followed me for quite a few years after i was fired! it even happened up where i live today,15 yrs ago!.....please dude,who ever you are,if you know someone else that had a smearing like that done to them
,i'd love to talk to them! it's eating me up...you make me feel like i'm back in group again,i'm just finding out truths to things i never gave that fucking place credit for doing...
i just thought i had a black cloud of bad luck or something....because of what they did to me,i wound up on the streets in boston standing on the street corners wondering if i should just jump out in front of a vehicle etc etc....i was homeless,living in shelters...choosing that over living at home with my family because i didn't want anymore "tough love" done to me....geez....
it fucks me off that i feel i have to explain what exactly happened to me in my 6 1/2 years involved in that CULT to you so you'll understand me better....so there it is....i was a big stupid fucking fool...ok?......hippie"
Your ideas intrigue me. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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there is no newsletter, just random sightings of pirate and hippie talking long walks through the mountians of PA. now what happens when they disappear into the woulds is an interesting thought......wait what is that sound? seems like it's a human trying to squeal like a pig.
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...Ahhh, the sound of insults from the shadows; and who might you be... ??
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Who would be the pitcher and who would be the catcher? :rofl:
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You're gay. :rofl:
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On 2006-03-06 07:48:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"You're gay. :rofl: "
An astute observation, Smithers!
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On 2006-03-05 09:50:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
thank you....my whole f-ing "tenure" was with "the newt"{a type of slimy lizard or salamander}
There are a lot of us who's entire tenure was under Newton's sadistic hand.
please dude,who ever you are,if you know someone else that had a smearing like that done to them
,i'd love to talk to them!
Yes, I know of quite a few people who had "smearing's" like that done to them. Some of the minute details are different but just as bad or worse and for just as long or longer. Some had their jobs fucked with, some their very physical freedom, some had custody interferred with and some just lost their entire family forever.
i just thought i had a black cloud of bad luck or something
In a way you did. You had the same black cloud hanging over you that we all did.
because of what they did to me,i wound up on the streets in boston standing on the street corners wondering if i should just jump out in front of a vehicle etc etc....i was homeless,living in shelters...choosing that over living at home with my family because i didn't want anymore "tough love" done to me....geez....
Yep, been there done that. I hear what you're saying.
it fucks me off that i feel i have to explain what exactly happened to me in my 6 1/2 years involved in that CULT to you so you'll understand me better....so there it is....i was a big stupid fucking fool...ok?......hippie"
You dont' have to explain anything to me or anyone else. We get it. We lived it along with you, we know.
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I understand why so many of us are so untrusting, so suspicious of one another. Just take an hour or so and read over this conversation, Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers".
Folks, some of us are dangerous and up to no good. For the most part, that seems to be only people who are still believing old lies about one another because we still haven't had or haven't taken the oportunity to talk out in group enough.
Anon, I liked you a lot better the other day when you were talking up fun and kindness. What happened in the mean time? The [Büsh] aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible
reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'
Ron Suskind
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On 2006-03-06 11:52:00, Eudora wrote:
Anon, I liked you a lot better the other day when you were talking up fun and kindness. What happened in the mean time?
I read the latest of Hippie's posts that again was saying how much harder of a time he had than anyone else. Guess it really rubs me the wrong way.
-
COLLEEN
My first hard-core girlfriend was just as crazy and
manic at the time as I was. This was in 1985 when I was just 23 years old. Her name was Colleen and she
was an illegal alien from Alberta Canada. She is one of the few girls I ever brought to my mothers house for
dinner. She put me through emotional hell on a daily basis. If we were walking somewhere and got into an arguement, she would go the the edge of the road and just stick her thumb out. Since she was pretty damn
good looking (sorta like Marissa Tomei) a car would pull up within seconds. Once, when we were short on the rent, she pulled this shit and we were not even really argueing. I got in the back seat like I usually did and she is all over this guy that picked us up. She tells him that we are late for a party and then invites him to it. She gets him to pull into the ABC Liquors on 4th street and swishes inside. I just sat there in awe, because One- she did not have any money, and Two- we were not going to any damn party. She comes out looking all pissed off and says, "The motherfuckers wont take a Canadian check!" "We can't go to the party empty handed," then she leans into the car and her knockers just about fall out of her top and she asks the guy who picked us up if he can spare enough for a case of beer. She'll pay him back at the party, because her room-mate will be there.
The guy hands her a twenty just like that. She goes in and after about 1 minute, the guy starts getting edgy.
He starts asking me shit about her and I put off like we are just friends, and that she is really hot and works at the Office Lounge, and any other shit I could think of to take his mind off the fact that he was being burned.
In desperation I stuttered out, "Oh shit, that's right!, she was thinking about applying for a waitress position here, she is probably talking the manager to death right now, I'll go in and get her." I shot out of the car and walked into the store. I quickly scanned all the fish-eye mirrors to see where she was. (We did a lot of shop-lifting back then too, and those mirrors work both ways.) There was a hallway that led to the Superlounge
so I walked down the ramp and noticed a crack of daylight coming from the door leading to the back parking lot. I walked out and had to let my eyes adjust to the blazing sunlight. Colleen was just about to the wall that ran all down the back of Northeast Shopping Center. She frantically motioned for me and I broke into a run just as the guy with the car started coming out of the back door after us. He ran halfway, then turned back around I guess to go jump in his car. Colleen and I made it to 1st Street, and she just smoothes her hair as a bus approached the bus shelter that was there. I frantically dug out a dollar in quarters to cover the fare, and we got on and headed back home. With the traffic and all, old Lover Boy Thanks for the Ride, probably never even made it out onto 4th street before the bus pulled away to take us home. Colleen was incredible, she pulled shit like that all the time. At least we got the landlord off our ass for a change.
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My penis isnt circumcised and I often get cheese just under the head that gives off a ripe odor*I often scrape the cheese off with a dull pearing knife and save it in a baby food jar which I plan to sell on e bay
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ttp://images.google.com/images?svnum=10 ... ma&spell=1 (http://ttp://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&hs=oNx&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=smegma&spell=1)
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On 2006-03-03 17:25:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"i guess...if you knew the reason why i did that,you'd understand....after that place,i had nothing..no high school diploma or college degree
just a ged....i went on staff to get in on the ground floor of somthing i could use to better myself! not to be an asshole....i tried college after i finished straight,but it was more of sitting in a blue chair for me!i couldn't do it! i didn't want to be mowing yards at fort belvor the rest of my life and i loved helping ppl out!
who was going to HIRE a ged /high school drop out?
no one was!...i was a trainee for 5 weeks and never really stood a chance of being a staff member...they never wanted me to start with....
it was just a cruel joke they played on me....whether ol' one year believes me or not,i don't give a flying fuck ok? no one who didn't totally kiss someones ass got out in one fucking year! dig it? i never knew anyone who was totally non-compliant in that place get out of straight in one fucking year! all i said was they were fucking lucky!....can you argue that?'cause i can't! even lulu couter was a fucking trainee,man......she was in the same schooling predicament as me when she finally got out of the kids program....she couldn't "do" school either! it was way too much like straight to her! all i was trying to do was get some kind of experience so i could have some kind of life after my ordeal in straight! thats all! they were the only ones that would give me a fucking chance without a college degree! it was a huge mistake!HUGE....and it cost me dearly......but i'll bet ol' one year
doesn't understand that,huh?......my motives were honest....i was told straight had fucking changed and was changing.....i thought i would actually help ppl in there....that was my big stupid mistake!they didn't want anyone actually helping the kids in there...they wanted control freaks for staff....that wasn't me!...lol....she or he has nothing on me....i'm glad you got out in one year....i'm glad thats all they got out of you...
i wasn't allowed to date anyone for 28 1/2 months!
thats why i said lucky fucking you!....nice to see the misinterpetation or twisting of my words and what i went through.....thanks....hippie"
Hip,
I am the one who started this thread and the " one year" you referred to. Why are you always so angry? When you first started posting here I read what you wrote with a certain amount of interest because of your circumstances. Then I started to see a pattern taking place. You say the same thing over and over and over. You were screwed over, all you were doing was tryin to help kids, your life was ruined by these people who were out to get you, blah, blah, blah. This may be some of the reason that people are finding you offensive. Like, for example, you say that no one makes it out in 1 year with out kissing someone's ass. How the hell would you know what it was like for me and how I was " lucky" enough to make it out in one year?? Do you not see how insulting that is?
I'm really surprised that you didn't make it as a staff member because you seem to have the asshole quality that was required to be one.
Speaking of being on staff, I just have to say something about that. I wouldn't care what someone told me about how the program had changed, or how much I wanted to help people, there is no way in hell I would EVER have gone back in under any circumstancs. I find it interesting that you couldn't do college because it was " more sittin in a blue chair" so what do you do? You go right back into straight as a staff member!!! If you were in the same straight as I was ( I don't mean location) then how could you even think for one minute that they were looking for anything OTHER than a control freak?
Of course I can understand that you now see what a huge mistake that was, but take responsibilty for the fact that it was your CHOICE. No one lured you in under false pretenses. If you spent 28 1/2 months in there, then you should have had a pretty good idea of what you were gettin yourself into. See what I'm sayin here?
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Anon, people got fucking brainwashed in that place. No kidding, for real, our very perceptions and personalities warped and edited in certain ways. I never bought in the way hip says he did. But it got me in other ways. Funny shit, sometimes, other times not the least fucking bit funny. Ask my husband one day how much fun he had for the couple of years it took me to unlearn jealous paranoia followed by long into the night confrontation/interrogation. He probably won't tell you. He's sort of a saint that way.
Can't we all just either get along or at least stay just a little bit detached from the topic? I mean, I really want to understand more than I do. And I really don't want to hurt anybody or be hurt anymore. Isn't there a happy balance somwhere?
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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One more thing, in defense of some former staffers. I never was quite so intimidated by staff as some were. My sister in law had been Seed staff. I babysat their son while they went out drinking. When I split for the final time, they took me in.
I don't know where I would have landed or what might have happened if they hadn't. Even so, the staff pod person in her emerged on my 18th birthday when she insisted that I get the fuck out for some lame assed reasons that didn't really wash.
But it was their house, their young family. And they had done so much for me, I just shrugged and walked. Found out just a few years ago what the real reason was; it was that I wasn't acting quite straight enough. And, well, we all "know"; once a druggie, always a druggie and she/they had that super Seedling "awareness" to spot a budding relapse......
GOD was I PISSED!!! At my brother, who I thought knew better. Still am, really, cause I still do think he knows better. And, for the life of me, I can't understand what his take on anything is. No explanation adds up to what I think I know. It's madening, I tell ya!
Maybe some of these other former staffers or true believers or half believers can shed some light. But only if I can get to know them well enough to understand the answers.
Ya know?
Government operates best when it allows all messengers to offer their views, allowing the American people to decide which take root and which wither away.
--Harold Furchtgott-Roth, member of the Federal Communications Commission
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On 2006-03-08 14:38:00, Eudora wrote:
"Anon, people got fucking brainwashed in that place. No kidding, for real, our very perceptions and personalities warped and edited in certain ways. I never bought in the way hip says he did. But it got me in other ways. Funny shit, sometimes, other times not the least fucking bit funny. Ask my husband one day how much fun he had for the couple of years it took me to unlearn jealous paranoia followed by long into the night confrontation/interrogation. He probably won't tell you. He's sort of a saint that way.
Can't we all just either get along or at least stay just a little bit detached from the topic? I mean, I really want to understand more than I do. And I really don't want to hurt anybody or be hurt anymore. Isn't there a happy balance somwhere?
I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet
"
Hey, this is the only time I've said anything to Hip. I'm not responsible for the other anon posts, something I tried to make clear. You don't have to tell me about people being brainwashed, I was there too remember?
The thread I started was about our first relationships after straight, Hip is the one who decided to make it about something else. Did you read his posts to me? I think I have every right to respond to what he said and that's exactly what I did.
If this is a subject that needs to be avoided than what are we all doing here? I'm not out to hurt anybody either but am I supposed to just keep my mouth shut if I have something to say that maybe you don't like?
Thanks for your input but I was really addressing Hip with this one
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Oh, I know. And I don't mean to bark at you. Just frustrated w/ the whole ongoing simmering brawl. Never mind. Sorry. I guess I can't really find the words yet, so I should shut up till I do.
The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting; 2. fleeing; 3.feeding; and 4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course
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So uhhh Pirate, how do you feel about this whole discussion?
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Why are you always so angry? When you first started posting here I read what you wrote with a certain amount of interest because of your circumstances.
i don't mean to be so angry....everything i had gone through that i had resolved or let go,was
changed after i found out the real truth....its like i got started over....i'm dealing with shit i thought was resolved only to find out that what i resolved was bullshit.....all over again,i'm dealing with this shit...like it happened yesterday....i have to "resolve" this all over again....
as far as being on staff,i didn't look at it like you described to me,but answering your comments,thats why i didn't go on after i 7 stepped or while i was on 5th.when i did go on,i looked at it as a way to get into some kind of field of helping ppl,from the ground floor,not as "going back in str8"....shit i had been done for 3 1/2 years.i had no phobias about being "set back" etc.....
i thought i was exempt from getting treated like a phaser....to me it was a job...thats how i looked at it.i was told the place was making new strides in changing the way it used to be.thats what made my decision to go up and work there...
ok! i was wrong!....
really,i was never a staff member....they were figuring a way to get rid of me from the day they knew i was coming up.....when the ppl that wanted me gone had enough shit to fire me,they did.lol....my life was a fucking joke to them.
now i find out{in the last month or so}that they weren't simply happy with firing me,noooo,not them.they had to make sure thier accusations were the truth and followed me around and smited everything they could about me! look,i just found this shit out,ok?....i'm sorry if i come off as an angry person,but i am! i never knew any of it!
now i have to deal with all of it again....like it happened yesterday....not 20 fucking years ago!.....oh well,fuck it....i won't come on here anymore.....fuck everything....
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No, don't go anywhere...unless you really want to for some other reason. If there was one thing that I was gonna say in your defense hip it was that the anger isn't always that easy to get over just like that...you're relatively new to this forum experience, so to me it isn't all that surprising that you haven't sorted everything out yet..there are things that still with me to this day and I'm more or less a veteran so to speak..so don't feel too bad about that. Maybe just try to take into consideration that other ppl's experience there may differ somewhat from yours and you should be ok...
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I don't think any of us have said that we'd be happier if he left. I really don't think any of us feel that way. Many of us have tried to state calmly and in civil terms why some of his posts were upsetting to us. I understand the anger at just finding some of this out. We all go through it when we first find the boards but not all of us try to insist to everyone that what we went through was somehow different or more problematic or more damaging. I've read that in more than a few posts of his..."you guys just don't understand"....we do. Of all the souls in the world, we understand. As I said before there may be variations in some of the details but to continually insist that one person's ordeal was somehow worse than anothers really does belittle the experience of the other person. I think we've tried to communicate that in a pretty civil manner. It's too bad he didn't take it in the spirit with which it was intended.
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One more thing. We all have seen how some former staff gets slammed on here (yes, I realize now that Hip is not former staff, but most of his posts reflect his desire to be or give the impression that he was). That has not happened to Hip. Again, we've tried to tell him calmly how we felt in an effort to get him to see how what he was posting may be an unfair assumption on his part without alienating him.
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On 2006-03-08 11:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-03-03 17:25:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"i guess...if you knew the reason why i did that,you'd understand....after that place,i had nothing..no high school diploma or college degree
just a ged....i went on staff to get in on the ground floor of somthing i could use to better myself! not to be an asshole....i tried college after i finished straight,but it was more of sitting in a blue chair for me!i couldn't do it! i didn't want to be mowing yards at fort belvor the rest of my life and i loved helping ppl out!
who was going to HIRE a ged /high school drop out?
no one was!...i was a trainee for 5 weeks and never really stood a chance of being a staff member...they never wanted me to start with....
it was just a cruel joke they played on me....whether ol' one year believes me or not,i don't give a flying fuck ok? no one who didn't totally kiss someones ass got out in one fucking year! dig it? i never knew anyone who was totally non-compliant in that place get out of straight in one fucking year! all i said was they were fucking lucky!....can you argue that?'cause i can't! even lulu couter was a fucking trainee,man......she was in the same schooling predicament as me when she finally got out of the kids program....she couldn't "do" school either! it was way too much like straight to her! all i was trying to do was get some kind of experience so i could have some kind of life after my ordeal in straight! thats all! they were the only ones that would give me a fucking chance without a college degree! it was a huge mistake!HUGE....and it cost me dearly......but i'll bet ol' one year
doesn't understand that,huh?......my motives were honest....i was told straight had fucking changed and was changing.....i thought i would actually help ppl in there....that was my big stupid mistake!they didn't want anyone actually helping the kids in there...they wanted control freaks for staff....that wasn't me!...lol....she or he has nothing on me....i'm glad you got out in one year....i'm glad thats all they got out of you...
i wasn't allowed to date anyone for 28 1/2 months!
thats why i said lucky fucking you!....nice to see the misinterpetation or twisting of my words and what i went through.....thanks....hippie"
Hip,
I am the one who started this thread and the " one year" you referred to. Why are you always so angry? When you first started posting here I read what you wrote with a certain amount of interest because of your circumstances. Then I started to see a pattern taking place. You say the same thing over and over and over. You were screwed over, all you were doing was tryin to help kids, your life was ruined by these people who were out to get you, blah, blah, blah. This may be some of the reason that people are finding you offensive. Like, for example, you say that no one makes it out in 1 year with out kissing someone's ass. How the hell would you know what it was like for me and how I was " lucky" enough to make it out in one year?? Do you not see how insulting that is?
I'm really surprised that you didn't make it as a staff member because you seem to have the asshole quality that was required to be one.
Speaking of being on staff, I just have to say something about that. I wouldn't care what someone told me about how the program had changed, or how much I wanted to help people, there is no way in hell I would EVER have gone back in under any circumstancs. I find it interesting that you couldn't do college because it was " more sittin in a blue chair" so what do you do? You go right back into straight as a staff member!!! If you were in the same straight as I was ( I don't mean location) then how could you even think for one minute that they were looking for anything OTHER than a control freak?
Of course I can understand that you now see what a huge mistake that was, but take responsibilty for the fact that it was your CHOICE. No one lured you in under false pretenses. If you spent 28 1/2 months in there, then you should have had a pretty good idea of what you were gettin yourself into. See what I'm sayin here?"
my my people sure are obsessed with hippie and his opinions. personally i rather dig the lower case letter thing and all the ellipses. it's hot.
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behind a paper bag you say these things,then you try to act like what you've said to me isn't supposed to piss me off! yes,i had desires to be a counselor of some sort.....so what?!...i would've done that anywhere...it just so happens thanks to that place,i couldn't "do" college,so i tried another way to get my desired occupation.you anon ppl hold that against me hiding behind a paper bag.again i explained to you what happened to me.....i had resolved a whole
bunch of stuff i just found out were lies!my family held that false shit against me for 20 years.....i knew i was right all those years but couldn't prove it. now...whats the fucking use? i'm 41 almost 42....in 28 yrs i'll be 70 and my best years were taken away from me....i had come to accept that it was my doing,my fault....now after 20 yrs,i found out way differently....how would any of you feel? at least what you know happened to you 20 years ago,pretty much happened that way...you've been able to lick your wounds the best you could and move on....i have to do that all over again man....how longs it going to take this time? another 20 yrs? shit i'll be 62 yrs old by then.hell yes i'm angry...i'm on the verge of checking out somtimes.....thanks to starry ,gin and froderick,i've been able to deal a little bit of this out,but i wake up torn to pieces about the shit i found out.....i see no hope or resolution in sight for me.....i'm back on first phase of resolveing this crap all over again.nothing i resolved was right or real.....
paper bag,you have alienated me.....behind a paper fucking bag,you acted like a fucking staff member,analising me and my story....its quite unfair of you to hide.....tell me who you are...
oh, its because of the shit in boston ,that my lifes course was manipulated and i wound up the way i did.what those fuckers did 20 yrs ago,manipulated my families perceptions of me,i wound up with a record{crimminal record},etc etc.
are you one of the ppl that was behind all that shit 20 yrs ago,back to stir more shit?if you are,why don't i just make it easy for you and get you a gun so you can finish doing the job you were assigned to do to me..! just leave me alone paper bag.....ok?....good bye everyone.....{to those who helped me thanks...your friend hippie
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On 2006-03-09 10:35:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
at least what you know happened to you 20 years ago,pretty much happened that way...you've been able to lick your wounds the best you could and move on....i have to do that all over again man....
Last time and I'm done. Hip, I like you, I hope you stick around but the above quote is exactly what I'm talking about. How the hell would you know if we did or didn't experience that? You're assuming that we didn't, that you were the only one. For the last time.....you weren't. Yes, we understand how much it sucks. I'm sorry it happened to you, I'm sorry it happened to me, I'm sorry it happened to all of us.
paper bag,you have alienated me.....behind a paper fucking bag,you acted like a fucking staff member,analising me and my story....its quite unfair of you to hide.....tell me who you are...
No, you've alientated yourself. We tried to explain to you how some of what you were saying made us feel. You don't like it or agree. Ok.
are you one of the ppl that was behind all that shit 20 yrs ago,back to stir more shit?
No, but I understand you thinking that and the paranoia.
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On 2006-03-09 10:35:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
"behind a paper bag you say these things,then you try to act like what you've said to me isn't supposed to piss me off! yes,i had desires to be a counselor of some sort.....so what?!...i would've done that anywhere...it just so happens thanks to that place,i couldn't "do" college,so i tried another way to get my desired occupation.you anon ppl hold that against me hiding behind a paper bag.again i explained to you what happened to me.....i had resolved a whole
bunch of stuff i just found out were lies!my family held that false shit against me for 20 years.....i knew i was right all those years but couldn't prove it. now...whats the fucking use? i'm 41 almost 42....in 28 yrs i'll be 70 and my best years were taken away from me....i had come to accept that it was my doing,my fault....now after 20 yrs,i found out way differently....how would any of you feel? at least what you know happened to you 20 years ago,pretty much happened that way...you've been able to lick your wounds the best you could and move on....i have to do that all over again man....how longs it going to take this time? another 20 yrs? shit i'll be 62 yrs old by then.hell yes i'm angry...i'm on the verge of checking out somtimes.....thanks to starry ,gin and froderick,i've been able to deal a little bit of this out,but i wake up torn to pieces about the shit i found out.....i see no hope or resolution in sight for me.....i'm back on first phase of resolveing this crap all over again.nothing i resolved was right or real.....
paper bag,you have alienated me.....behind a paper fucking bag,you acted like a fucking staff member,analising me and my story....its quite unfair of you to hide.....tell me who you are...
oh, its because of the shit in boston ,that my lifes course was manipulated and i wound up the way i did.what those fuckers did 20 yrs ago,manipulated my families perceptions of me,i wound up with a record{crimminal record},etc etc.
are you one of the ppl that was behind all that shit 20 yrs ago,back to stir more shit?if you are,why don't i just make it easy for you and get you a gun so you can finish doing the job you were assigned to do to me..! just leave me alone paper bag.....ok?....good bye everyone.....{to those who helped me thanks...your friend hippie"
i wish you the best of luck in finding some nicer friends to play with. you really DID get abused in a bad way by a very abusive cult. you don't have to make anyone here believe it, and you don't have to stick around or prove anything to anyone here, AT ALL. turn your back on these people, you owe them nothing, no explanation at all. personally all i read in your posts is someone sincerely struggling with their history and stuff. this is probably better done by yourself or with someone who is nice to you.
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How the hell would you know if we did or didn't experience that? You're assuming that we didn't, that you were the only one. For the last time.....you weren't
paper bag,you're the one doing any assuming....if you LIKE ME so much,what the fuck is your major malfunction?i don't need that kind of "liking me"......that the same fucking liking me that i got up there from all those "caring ppl"...again i will ask you,if you know someone who had a deal like that,tell me who they are...i'd like to talk to them.....i really would....no sarcasism....i need to talk to someone with that kind of experience ok?......as it is i'm really on the verge of ....geez....fuck it...fuck all this shit...i'll just go hunt down the mother fuckers responsible....hippie