Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Roy on March 08, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
-
Look, CEDU is an abusive cult. I worked there as a therapist and spent most of my 4 years trying to keep kids out of the hospital and off of psychotropic drugs. Why? Because the program was designed to drive them nuts with, double-binds, mixed messages, and conflicting rules that are no win no matter what they did. They place kids on restrictions and bans in order to make them feel intolerable emotional pain in order to control their thoughts. CEDU is a cult whose technology is taken directly out of cults. Scientology, Mormonism, Earhart Seminars Training, Lifespring and Synanon. I could go on and on, but why bother. This country is ruled by money and corporations by politicians who take that payola so they can exploit the average working joe and even the semi-wealthy. Kids are a commodity to CEDU, nothing more. The poster who said that you have little legal or regulatory recourse, sadly, is correct. That there is little regulation is a political game, a set up, designed to enrich big business with Bush at the helm. There is only one thing you can do about CEDU, and I can't say it, but, I can give you a hint. We did it in the 60s at universities, at government buildings, in the south, and across the country. The only mistake we made was to stop demonstrating and fighting and sitting in and smoking out and trashing places "singing songs and carrying signs." If you will. The only thing that saved kids at Northwest Academy was rioting, and it also saved them at Rocky Mountain Academy - RMA is now gone. Now, I am not suggesting rioting as a solution, because I can't. But, the only way to dethrone a tyrant is shown by history. You storm his seat of power and you take over, you lose him money and power. Remember that money and power are all they (the status quo) care about, and all they will ever care about. If you don't believe that, you are delusional or brainwashed. So, if you want change, you have to take risks and pay a big price. You are not going to get anything by working within the system, because the system is the whole problem.
-
Roy,
We remember you from our time at RMA.
We were hoping you would be interested in doing an interview for our documentary. Please contact us directly at [email protected]
-thanks
-
Roy:In my personal experience with this fornits site,it has become my opinion that your comments regarding the "cedu experience" offer the clearest articulation of the gross abuses perpetrated by cedu.
I mean;Where else are we going to get an authoritive use of such terms as double-binds,mixed messages,conflicting rules and stuff like that,(I especially liked the term psycho-dynamic propheets)if it doesn't come from you,someone with firsthand experience?
It would probably all be laughable if it wasn't so goddamn sad.
Here in Las Vegas there will be a protest March 19 to mark the second anniversary of our immoral and bloody invasion and occupation of Iraq.I'll be there,hopefully carrying a sign with some half-assed witisism regarding the use of DEPLETED FUCKING URANIUM.
You're so right.It's all tied together and none of us should have bought into the crap they were selling us.
Anyway here is my request....
Give these guys the interview.I'm afraid there are a lot of people whose true voice may never be heard on this matter....
[ This Message was edited by: CEDU 1974-75 on 2005-03-08 18:36 ][ This Message was edited by: CEDU 1974-75 on 2005-03-08 18:38 ]
-
Is this roy phillips????????
-
No, I am not Roy Phillips, but I admired him so much. I have read the dialogue on fornits on the documentary and, I hope I am wrong, but I believe that the "documentary" is a CEDU smoke-screen to identify dissenters for law suits. Therefore. I won't be giving any interviews.
What I would like is for people to talk substance and use this forum to end corporate rule, not only of CEDU, but everywhere. I hate it to hear people bickering with each other when they should be joining forces to organize to advocate for parents, kids, and workers who are being used and thrown away by a so-called democracy that is no more and a token bill of rights for show only.
This is a corporate dictatorship - let's face it.
We have a big problem. Bigger than CEDU, and we need a movement to stop it. There is a big counter culture with networks all over. Join up with The "Direct Action Network" (DAN). They need to knoew about these boarding schools like CEDU and to go to the parent conferences and protest. DAN was behind the WTO protest and the G8 summit. CEDU is small stuff for them, but they would be interested if they heard intelligent people tell their horror stories. See their site at
http://www.raisethefist.com (http://www.raisethefist.com)
-
Oh Well, It looks like the good ol USA shut the site down because of the stupid idea to post bomb instructions. That was really a dumb thing for this Guy from DAN to do. Anyway, there are still a lot of interesting links avilable through that link left on the page.
For the record, I don't, and never will, advocate hurting people. I still believe in nonviolent social action and protest, and I think CEDU needs a taste of it at the next parent conference at the Coeur d'Alene resort in Coeur d'Alene Idaho.
I know a kid who is planning one. I may call him and ask him if he wants to invite people from fornits.
Royski [ This Message was edited by: Roy on 2005-03-09 20:24 ]
-
Now that's an idea. Roy, be sure to let us know if he would like a few more heads for his cause.
-
Hmmm,interesting because your style is exactly like that patronizing SOB roy phillips. Roy used tactics that pacified students while validating their complaints. He used language very similar to the jargon you choose to use.
I am calling bullshit. if you are not roy phillips, you use the same tactics. don't listen to this guy. He stole from our families and he has the audacity to use the "expert halo" to disguise his true intentions.
why would he work here and comprimise his morals for a "cult."
I don't agree with a lot of that tactics used at the CEDU schools although i did gain a lot from the experience. this guy is the epitamy of what you guys fight, ironic that the argument i have brought up are so vehemently fought while this guy is revered because he blows smoke up your ass. think about the motivations, "Roy" claims to have worked at the school. Why else would you not want your views expressed in an objective forum like the documenatary being made by former students? there are plenty of ways to express views and still remain anonymous don't try to hide behind you anonymity at least one of us knows you are full of it.
This guy and Son Of (a bitch)Serbia are afraid that their veiws might be confronted. i remember kids just like them at the school. kids who made empty threats because they knew that others were more mature than them and would not resort to violence over dumb shit like a basketball game, or a simple disagreement.
we have a saying: if you aren't afraid, you aren't paying attention.
and if you go around posting bomb intructions and advocating riots i hope you go to prison for a long time.
-
A therapist was stealing from your family? Are you kidding? Yes program staff, yes FSC's, yes admin staff, but if there were two types of people at cedu that I can safely say didn't "steal" from our families, it's the therapists and the kitchen ladies.
-
ya right they just helped make you fatter and lied to you.
by continueing "therapy" when there is no reason they are effectively stealing.
-
Cool, I wanted to piss them off. I guess I did. And, they played right in to it. And there was a bonus. They began again exposing their true brain-washed culture and character.
And, they didn't even notice that RMA went out of business. And that It started its decline right after Roy Phillips left. I was there. Roy kept them from abusing kids. Now they have 25 lawsuits for child abuse pending. "Well, I guess it wa Roy's Fault." This is the mentality of Boulder Creek Academy and Northwest Academy also. They are so fucking Dumb - so stuck in group think.
I wonder if annon noticed the comma splices and grammatical errors in his/her post. It has to be on of those Mormon or other fundamentalist Christian conservatives from CEDU in Bonners Ferry Idaho. Nobody credible would be that stupid.
It also sounds a lot like Lon from struggling teens.com. Whoever it is, he/she has not realized that I don't care what he/she thinks or says - not at all. Stepping on a bug would upset me though. Why hurt a creature that is just going about his business and not bothering anyone. So, I'm not going to bother this person.
Anyway, that bullshit aside, I came here to let you know that there is a better organization that didn't shut itself down by doing such a stupid thing as DAN. And it seems more professional and more ethical. It is:
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/ (http://reclaimdemocracy.org/)
LOVE
-
the school shut down because roy left? pbbbbffft, if you can't tell that's me laughing, that guy would listen to you, turn around and inform the other staff of what you said, look for the angles. he definitely used a few, no wonder you ended up at the school you guys are fucking gullible. funny when i was there we would just talk mad shit about that guy, now he's a saint. ha. funny how things change when you are desperately grasping for anything to prove your point.
the place sucked, yes, should it have been shut down, probably. are there wilderness programs that do good thing for troubled kids, yes, have you changed since your time there, not much.
is there a bigger problem in america, fuck yes, a systematic war is being waged on the environment and our childrens' future. want to change things get informed, learn about what you are talking about, write letters work with other people, and FUCKING VOTE!!!
-
The school did shut down because the therapists had no clout and were unable to get the staff to comply with ethical standards
-
Yep, there was a meeting where Brown Schools introduced a treatment code of ethics. It was simply a document asking for respect, dignity, a chance at self determination, no forced isolation,
no emotional torture.
We therapists thought that "at last the CULT was going to become humane and decent," following the same standards that any mental health or chemical dependency professional is required by law and professional ethics to uphold.
The meeting did not go well. Program staff stood up in the meeting and flatly refused to follow any code of conduct. Twenty six law suits later, RMA (The school in question) is out of business because of charges of child abuse and maltreatment. Brown did not "hold the staff accountable"
Roy Phillips held the whole thing together arguing with the staff and trying to help them not get the school sued, and he did a damn good job. But, because Brown Schools backed down to the uneducated, unprofessional, unethical, abusive and undersocialized RMA staff, they killed the code of ethics.
Then All hell broke loose. The beginning of the "decline" was here.
Eventually, when the school was down to 30 students fron about 90, Roy was asked to run the clinical department. He was smart enough to know what a sinking ship lookes like. And, he knew that the staff were totally "bought in" to an abusive cult system, and therefore, taking the job would be a set up for losing his psychologist license. So, (smart man) he refused the position.
CEDU retaliated and asked him to leave. The next day after he left he had a massive heart attack. It killed him to leave his kids. He may be dead. I don't know.
Roy the poster, whoever he is, has it all down pat. And, he is telling the truth that CEDU can't handle and won't be able to handle until all of the schools are closed down. The schools are well on their way to the end with this class action suit for child abuse. Well on their way because they have no 'real" insight, no "real' compassion, no "real" sense of self. All they really have is what Ginger described so well - A "Circle Jerk."
-
YES!!!!!
-
Roy Phillips was the worst thing that could have EVER happened to me at that school. He should be stripped of his license and never be able to practice again.
-
Notice the difference between my post on Roy and the one quoted below. You will notice that my post is thought out, reasoned, and it provides details of what Roy did and the specifics about exactly what happened and how the system was impacted by CEDU.
Suppose I just said - CEDU sucks and it should be put out of business. Would that be a supported statement?
That statement is not supported by anything at all and it is the same as annon's post about Roy Phillips.
Read annon's quote below, and notice that a comparison of the two statements sheds light on the difference between a free thinker and a cult convert.
Notice how the convert makes his statement about how he hates Roy and what should be done to him without providing any specifics, detail, process, event experience to back up the premise.
The earlier post by the same individual was similar (an opinion with no premise that supports the conclusion that what Roy was doing was bad and why) The reader is thus left with nothing more than one individual's disjointed and accusatory "belief."
This is how cults teach people to think. All events, and even the character of individuals, are judged by the standard that they are not on the inside supporting the beliefs and behaviors of the group and they are therefore bad.
Some people call it group think. I call it "no think," because the specific beliefs of the group are not allowed to be questioned, critisized or even given the honor of dialogue.The beliefs are based on unsupported authority alone. (So were Hitler's beliefs werent they).
Now you begin to see how insidious this all is. It stops the thinking process. It makes questioning illegal, and damns everything and anyone who dares to think, reason, question, or see in shades of grey.
People and systems can't be part good, but flawed as we all are. The only thing is the omnipitent cult, CEDU, and it is believed without question to be all knowing, all powerful, supreme and without flaw.
Roy was a human being, flawed like all of us, but a damn fine human being. Notice that, by my earlier posts that statement is logical. Then look at annon's statements below. Quite clear, isn't it?
On 2005-03-12 14:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Roy Phillips was the worst thing that could have EVER happened to me at that school. He should be stripped of his license and never be able to practice again."
-
Hey Roy, it's obvious it's you, no need to pretend not to be the infamous Roy Philips, we know you're just trying to cover your tracks for legal reasons or whatever, but the lack of honesty is a serious detractor from what you have to say.
-
On 2005-03-13 14:15:00, Roy wrote:
"Notice the difference between my post on Roy and the one quoted below. You will notice that my post is thought out, reasoned, and it provides details of what Roy did and the specifics about exactly what happened and how the system was impacted by CEDU.
Suppose I just said - CEDU sucks and it should be put out of business. Would that be a supported statement?
That statement is not supported by anything at all and it is the same as annon's post about Roy Phillips.
Read annon's quote below, and notice that a comparison of the two statements sheds light on the difference between a free thinker and a cult convert.
Notice how the convert makes his statement about how he hates Roy and what should be done to him without providing any specifics, detail, process, event experience to back up the premise.
The earlier post by the same individual was similar (an opinion with no premise that supports the conclusion that what Roy was doing was bad and why) The reader is thus left with nothing more than one individual's disjointed and accusatory "belief."
This is how cults teach people to think. All events, and even the character of individuals, are judged by the standard that they are not on the inside supporting the beliefs and behaviors of the group and they are therefore bad.
Some people call it group think. I call it "no think," because the specific beliefs of the group are not allowed to be questioned, critisized or even given the honor of dialogue.The beliefs are based on unsupported authority alone. (So were Hitler's beliefs werent they).
Now you begin to see how insidious this all is. It stops the thinking process. It makes questioning illegal, and damns everything and anyone who dares to think, reason, question, or see in shades of grey.
People and systems can't be part good, but flawed as we all are. The only thing is the omnipitent cult, CEDU, and it is believed without question to be all knowing, all powerful, supreme and without flaw.
Roy was a human being, flawed like all of us, but a damn fine human being. Notice that, by my earlier posts that statement is logical. Then look at annon's statements below. Quite clear, isn't it?
wow, you are a character. oh, im sorry do I need to back that up with "specifics, detail, process, event experience to back up the premise." roy, you kissed kids ass and screwed them behind their backs. i hope i never bump into you because you make me fucking sick.
-
On 2005-03-13 22:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"wow, you are a character. oh, im sorry do I need to back that up with "specifics, detail, process, event experience to back up the premise." roy, you kissed kids ass and screwed them behind their backs. i hope i never bump into you because you make me fucking sick. "
well you are right about one thing troll, you are "fucking sick", but it would be impossible for roy to make you that way. cedu already did that a loooong time ago!
eat shit convert!
-
Roy can't make you "fucking sick" sheep, because you already are. Cedu already made you that way a long time ago.
Seriously, get some help already, you need it!
.
-
I don't know whether the current poster named "Roy" is Dr. Roy Phillips or not(he says he isn't, so probably not). Also not getting what the current conflict on this thread is about, whatever that's not my interest
What I do know is Dr. Roy Phillips is alive and residing and/or practicing in Yuba City CA on an Idaho psychology license that is still registered as active, at least as a few weeks ago
If anyone knows if Dr. Phillips wants to hear from old students, parents, or staff, please say so here. There are a lot of us who would like to wish him well-- but not if it would be intruding to contact him. It may be that CEDU is part of his pastlife and he would like to keep it that way.
If anyone knows one way or another whether he'd like to hear from old CEDU contacts please say so here
-
Roy Phillips is a TOOL and so is son of serbia.
To Whoever Serbia was addressing as "needing help"
Please don't listen to it because he's the one who needs help. Hey I bet Dr Ullrich would be willing to see you.
Sheep??? :lol:
Good one Sheepia
-
i knew roy phillips personally, he's a stand up guy who cares about kids, no doubt about it. as for son of serbia, well i don't know him, but from what i've read, the guy knows what he's talking about, and i do agree with most of what he's said.
sorry, but the only tool i see around here is you.
-
son of serbia knows what he is talking about? hah that's a joke, no doubt the guy is dangerous. he makes empty threats. using violence to intimidate is pathetic enough on a face to face basis, when it is used on the internet it becomes redonculus. this kid takes no risk in his own life. posters here claim that anyone who doesn't agree with them is "sheep", it appears that most of you follow the thoughts of one or two others. who is the sheep? i accept some of what i saw at the school while rejecting other concepts. for two and a half years i lived at that school i know that not all of it is bad. if you claim it is you are the one who is brainwashed.
the administrators of this site have their own agenda, the teachers, counselors and staff at cedu had their own agenda, every organization has their own agenda, if you cannot deal with that and work from the inside out effectively, you will have to get a quarter and sympathy from some one else.
peace, bitch!!!
-
You have said, in essence, NOTHING. Bugger off, little man!
-
BTW your victim stance including the pix on your post as a poor little torture victim is real silly too
And your "writing" the poor me recounts of your less than tragic school life---even if you took it that way---is sillier still
-
On 2005-03-15 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"BTW your victim stance including the pix on your post as a poor little torture victim is real silly too
And your "writing" the poor me recounts of your less than tragic school life---even if you took it that way---is sillier still"
:nworthy: Yea seriously. You're letting CEDU run your life and they are getting off on it. I agree with the last person.
-
On 2005-03-15 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"BTW your victim stance including the pix on your post as a poor little torture victim is real silly too
And your "writing" the poor me recounts of your less than tragic school life---even if you took it that way---is sillier still"
I'm really very silly.
-
So here we are, back at the beginning. And what have we accomplished. We have verified exactly what the man said
On 2005-03-08 11:15:00, Roy wrote:
"Look, CEDU is an abusive cult. I worked there as a therapist and spent most of my 4 years trying to keep kids out of the hospital and off of psychotropic drugs. Why? Because the program was designed to drive them nuts with, double-binds, mixed messages, and conflicting rules that are no win no matter what they did. They place kids on restrictions and bans in order to make them feel intolerable emotional pain in order to control their thoughts. CEDU is a cult whose technology is taken directly out of cults. Scientology, Mormonism, Earhart Seminars Training, Lifespring and Synanon. I could go on and on, but why bother. This country is ruled by money and corporations by politicians who take that payola so they can exploit the average working joe and even the semi-wealthy. Kids are a commodity to CEDU, nothing more. The poster who said that you have little legal or regulatory recourse, sadly, is correct. That there is little regulation is a political game, a set up, designed to enrich big business with Bush at the helm. There is only one thing you can do about CEDU, and I can't say it, but, I can give you a hint. We did it in the 60s at universities, at government buildings, in the south, and across the country. The only mistake we made was to stop demonstrating and fighting and sitting in and smoking out and trashing places "singing songs and carrying signs." If you will. The only thing that saved kids at Northwest Academy was rioting, and it also saved them at Rocky Mountain Academy - RMA is now gone. Now, I am not suggesting rioting as a solution, because I can't. But, the only way to dethrone a tyrant is shown by history. You storm his seat of power and you take over, you lose him money and power. Remember that money and power are all they (the status quo) care about, and all they will ever care about. If you don't believe that, you are delusional or brainwashed. So, if you want change, you have to take risks and pay a big price. You are not going to get anything by working within the system, because the system is the whole problem."
If you want to run over these twits at CEDU come to the parent conferences and bring the press.
Regards,
Roy (Not Phillips) But one of his many admirers.
-
"Roy", why don't you get yourself over there to the conferences? Show us how it's done. You seem eager to goad the rest into it... go ahead. You get the press, and let us know how it turns out.
-
It sounds like "Roy" is really behind the demonstrators--way behind them. Nice.
He wants these poor stupid kids to take the chance of being arrested. Because they will be told to leave private property, you can bank on it...and of course they'll think they're in some sixties re-run and they won't do (hell no)...and then they get a record or a beating or worse.
So I say what the last poster did, I think you'd have to be stupid to go but "Roy" if you're so gung ho, why don't you take the hit instead of playing big mastermind while somebody else takes a chance
-
so what's it gonna be, Roy? Put your money where your mouth is. Or will you just disappear for a few days, then reappear with more inciting rhetoric? Now is your chance. Do it.
-
Roy's a bitch, let him sleep.
-
Thanks for the entertainment. You see, I feed the trolls. Wanna know why? Because, though I don't care what people (especially sheep) think, I, in fact, love watching people who have been trained to not think try to reason and argue without the intelligence, creativity, or insight to do so. It's kind of like watching slapstick.
Apparently these folks think I am reactive, but I don't get angry at the type of things they post. It's more like watching comedy central. I actually have fun reading their angry attempts to provoke (not only me, but others). It appears, by what they are posting now, that I have got them by the balls. That is, if you contend that such foolish and easily provoked people have balls.
This is comedy and entertainment. I enjoy the attempts. But, I cannot be provoked, and I enjoy reading these attempts - pathetic as they are so, keep it up.
Love,
Roy
-
Protest?
Just in the last two months, CEDU has been splattered all over the news pages twice. CEDU is way better than me at fucking themselves. Hell They have 25 lawsuits against them for child abuse. And it has been all over the press. Why do what's already done?
-
Roy, I have to disagree w/ you on one point of samantics. You said "You are not going to get anything by working within the system, because the system is the whole problem."
Well the IVth Estate IS a part of the system. Often enough, a part of the problem, too. But it's a lot more accessible to most of us than the other three estates.
T.J. said that, were it left to him, he'd rather have newspapers w/o a government than t'other way `round. Jello Biafra said "Don't hate the media, become the media!" And so he did, too, to an extent.
Protesting is not illegal! You just have to know what the local ordinances are so that you can stay within them and so that no one can bullshit you that what you're doing is illegal if it isn't.
And it can be effective, too. Look at what's happening w/ Bethel Girls Academy. Herman Fountain Jr. is getting run out of Florida. Doesn't mean he's stopped exactly. But at least one little town will hopefully see the next one coming. And something like that has GOT to tank enrolement. Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
-
On 2005-03-12 13:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, there was a meeting where Brown Schools introduced a treatment code of ethics. It was simply a document asking for respect, dignity, a chance at self determination, no forced isolation,
no emotional torture.
We therapists thought that "at last the CULT was going to become humane and decent," following the same standards that any mental health or chemical dependency professional is required by law and professional ethics to uphold.
The meeting did not go well. Program staff stood up in the meeting and flatly refused to follow any code of conduct. Twenty six law suits later, RMA (The school in question) is out of business because of charges of child abuse and maltreatment. Brown did not "hold the staff accountable"
Roy Phillips held the whole thing together arguing with the staff and trying to help them not get the school sued, and he did a damn good job. But, because Brown Schools backed down to the uneducated, unprofessional, unethical, abusive and undersocialized RMA staff, they killed the code of ethics.
Then All hell broke loose. The beginning of the "decline" was here.
Eventually, when the school was down to 30 students fron about 90, Roy was asked to run the clinical department. He was smart enough to know what a sinking ship lookes like. And, he knew that the staff were totally "bought in" to an abusive cult system, and therefore, taking the job would be a set up for losing his psychologist license. So, (smart man) he refused the position.
CEDU retaliated and asked him to leave. The next day after he left he had a massive heart attack. It killed him to leave his kids. He may be dead. I don't know.
Roy the poster, whoever he is, has it all down pat. And, he is telling the truth that CEDU can't handle and won't be able to handle until all of the schools are closed down. The schools are well on their way to the end with this class action suit for child abuse. Well on their way because they have no 'real" insight, no "real' compassion, no "real" sense of self. All they really have is what Ginger described so well - A "Circle Jerk." "
I was in Couer d'Alene for one conference and the truth reflected in the above post was apparent to me at the time. A very sick system, indeed. If I was responsible for it, I believe I would have pulled the plug on the whole mess, too. No doubt, the parent company was concerned about the refusal to comply with ethical treatment standards. What a liability!
-
are you a parent or staff? What did you see happpen?
-
On 2005-04-20 06:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"are you a parent or staff? What did you see happpen?"
Parent. Among other concerns, I took issue with a particularly troubling group intervention/punishment that occured shortly before this conference and discussed my concerns with program leader, administration, & clinical. My assessment, despite some wonderful people and some potential to be helpful to our student, I could see why the "program" as implemented was iatrogenic to our student and subsequently pulled student. I could not get a sense that there was cohesion among the various elements of the school, that a meaningful individualized plan was in place and being implemented by all staff to address our student's educational and emotional needs, that therapy or other individual goals were being addressed or translated into the "therapeutic living milieu", that "whole child" and developmentally appropriate methods were being used to address our student, and like many other parents at this particular conference, clear communication, not only between school & family, but between elements within the school was a concern. In fact, our school had a break out session with very concerned parents to discuss communication and recent changes at the school like the elimination of the FRC position. Finally, I got the impression that the primary vehicle of change/power at the school was "the program" and the program staff. After spending time with, speaking with and observing the program staff leadership and reviewing our student's initial lack of progess and then deterioration, we concluded that the "program" was the product that was being offered and it was definitely not what we had in mind. We also had an appointment with academic head to ask questions, but she didn't keep the appointment. A few individual teachers met with us and they were very considerate. I am sure that there are parents that were very pleased with the "program", but we each have a moral and legal obligation to perform due deligence in regard to the welfare of our children and/or students. The world didn't come to an end because we pulled student, in fact student's functioning improved. We have never regretted the decision.
-
I'm a CEDU Idaho parent (was) too. You sound like it has been a while since you were there, since they eliminated the FRC position quite a while back, then later reinstated them. I may know you. How is your child doing? Hope your son/daughter is doing well. PM me if you'd like -
-
What's FRC?
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
-
Family Resource Coordinator --- functioned kind of like a casemanager,ie, facilitator of communication between various school components, outside resources,parent contact, etc. The therapists had to take over this function in addition to individual & group therapy -- & milieu facilitation when possible.
On 2005-04-21 15:43:00, Antigen wrote:
"
What's FRC? Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
"
-
good description of FRC. As the anon said, they were the liason between parent and team staff. Parents were called every week by the FRC or RC. Often times, they were not in tune with the child from day to day, and was not the ideal form of communication. When the therapists took over the job, it became even more diluted. They were, I believe, resentful that they had to provide this service, and as a result did not do an effective job.
-
In the beginning of our student's stay, the FRC and the team leader together [conference call]would call us on the scheduled calls. While the FRC dealt with pediatrician, orthodontist, etc. and additional casemanagement needs, the participation of the team leader in these scheduled calls made it much more easy to follow what was going on for our student programatically. The therapist and student worked on significant individual therapy issues, and the therapist would do family therapy sessions with us via conference calling with student.
Unfortunately, there were some experienced program leaders that also left early in our student's stay. I would have to check my notes and records to say for sure, but I recall that there was briefly some discussion of the team leaders taking over all of the FRC responsibilities at some point in this process...
Yes, the therapists then assumed the FRC responsibilities. I can't say how the therapists felt about it, but I know that there are times that the roles of a "manager" and a "therapist" are very different on a "team". Depending upon the nature of the issues being dealt with in therapy and on the environment in the program, this role dissonance could be greater or lesser.
The flexibility of the institution/program/philosophy and its ability to respond to individual strengths and needs are possibly other factors that could lend itself to role conflict.
Additionally, in other environments I've been exposed to, casemanagers are the team leaders and exercise informed decision making-power in developing individual plans.....
I believe on a well functioning team each member's contribution is respected and brings a unique understanding of the "whole child" or "whole person" that theoretically can enable the team to devise and implement an individualized, integrated plan based on positives that can empower the child/client/student to better take care of themselves and realize his or her potentials.
Some factors that may be necessary for this ideal scenerio to occur might include adequate leadership, a philosophy and methods grounded in respect for the integrity of the individual/client's core self, and healthy communication that eschews blaming, scapegoating, minimizing, etc.
While we were concerned about the disequilibrium in the system caused by the various changes during our student's stay, in hindsight it was actually a wonderful opportunity for us to really view the program philosophy and techniques in action under challenging circumstances with our student and see if it was consistent with our family values and goals. I respect that for many the program was experienced as a positive; however, our experience was otherwise. I'm glad we were able to figure that out.
On 2005-04-21 18:10:00, coco wrote:
"good description of FRC. As the anon said, they were the liason between parent and team staff. Parents were called every week by the FRC or RC. Often times, they were not in tune with the child from day to day, and was not the ideal form of communication. When the therapists took over the job, it became even more diluted. They were, I believe, resentful that they had to provide this service, and as a result did not do an effective job."
-
you make some very valid points. In retrospect, it probably was not a good idea to merge the responsibilities of the therapist to include the former RC's responsibilities in providing feedback to the parents.
I personally did not feel that this was a huge negative for our student. The brutality of the raps and some of the workshops were concerns of mine.
-
"The brutality of the raps were concerns of mine..."
I would also add the brutality of some of the students to others were a definate negative. You may be referring to the dorm situation where the kids who were causing chaos in their dorms, were all then housed together where they could bully one another. They weren't too happy with that.
-
Antigen,
Are you familiar with the work of Alice Miller?
http://alice-miller.com/sujet/eng.htm (http://alice-miller.com/sujet/eng.htm)
Here is a link to her site. I guess that you might appreciate some aspects of her work.
I read her earlier books years ago( THE DRAMA OF THE GIFTED CHILD and FOR YOUR OWN GOOD), but have not yet had the opportunity to read some of her later books, including the recent THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE. I particularly found her reflections on "poisonous pedagogy" in FOR YOUR OWN GOOD thought provoking. While I am not aware that she addresses the role of economics, poverty, the transistion from pre-industrial to industrial to post-industrial societies, etc. when addressing larger systems issues (her area is early childhood), her work looks at the ramifications of some of our culture's basic assumptions about children & child rearing, not only on the child, but on the larger social systems and on our collective global history. Interesting stuff.... Bound to stir up conflict in our "law and order" times and stimulate dialogue.
Antigen wrote:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
"
-
The brutality of the raps and some of the workshops were concerns of mine."
Me, too. But the way things are set up, it was hard to get a lot of details about what was really happening in Raps and workshops.
This concern comes under what I think of as "program philosophy and techniques", basic assumptions and values about human nature, dignity, etc. I guess I was surprised because I was familliar with Yalom's curative factors, group therapy, support groups, and various group learning or growth modalities, the need for "safety" in a group setting, the person in the role of leader/facilitator being RESPONSIBLE for establishing group safety, healthy boundaries & group norms, fair fighting, clean communication, etc. It really gave me something to think about.
I was unaware of any Synanon influence in technique in the teen help field at all until I discussed some of my concerns with an authority figure there....the "transfusion of clinical elements into the program" was progressing, this authority felt, but being hampered somewhat by old timers who had come up when Synanon methods were viewed as the most helpful means to an end. This person felt that things would get better. This Synanon reference was a bit confusing to me as I didn't think there was anybody THAT OLD there. This comment did help me to start to make sense of what I was expereincing, though, so I went back and did some reading-- Never having been a proponent of the "hot seat", brutal confrontations, etc., or methods that tore down defenses - I think they are unsafe and don't work-I had to start thinking about whether this was the best choice for us. Whether things were bound to improve or not, I had one student that I was responsible for at that one point in time. I rather like skill building techniques and an approach based on aligning with positive behaviors myself. .
-
How is your child doing? Hope your son/daughter is doing well."
A lot better, thank you.
We found a home based program, respectful to us and student, that helped us stabalize as a family system, stay calmer and more focused on the positives during challenging times, and come up with positive interventions based on student's needs & motivations. This program also advocated for student in the larger community which really helped a lot. We also got support for dealing with our own fears.
How is your student?
-
did this program staff actually mention the Synanon reference to the program at CEDU?
From what I have heard from my student is that they were very confrontational and defenses were torn down. My student is reluctant to talk about it much, which is probably fairly common. I hope that as time goes by, my child doesn't experience some of the traumatic memories that many on this forum describe.
My "student" is doing well, thank God. Happy to be home, more mature and appreciative of a good life in general.
-
on 2005-04-22 06:24:00, Anonymous wrote
While we were concerned about the disequilibrium in the system caused by the various changes during our student's stay, in hindsight it was actually a wonderful opportunity for us to really view the program philosophy and techniques in action under challenging circumstances with our student and see if it was consistent with our family values and goals. I respect that for many the program was experienced as a positive; however, our experience was otherwise. I'm glad we were able to figure that out.
On 2005-04-22 06:56:00, coco wrote:
"you make some very valid points. In retrospect, it probably was not a good idea to merge the responsibilities of the therapist to include the former RC's responsibilities in providing feedback to the parents.
So then it would have been better the old way so parents would stay in the dark?
Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
Not to be a downer or anything, but someone recently posted the most amazing bit of poetic prose I've seen in a long time. And it speaks eloquently to some of the more common after effects of the Synanon method:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=7&2 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9034&forum=7&2)
It's not just the nightmares. I can relate to the above essay in frighteningly many ways. I cried when I read it and asked my husband to read it too. I'm not sure if I hope he did and I don't think I'll remember to ask him next time I think of it.
When you tear away the very foundations of someone's personality and leave them to rebuild a new one, the new one is just never the same. Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
Bill Warbis
-
On 2005-04-22 19:55:00, Antigen wrote:
"Not to be a downer or anything, but someone recently posted the most amazing bit of poetic prose I've seen in a long time. And it speaks eloquently to some of the more common after effects of the Synanon method:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=7&2 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9034&forum=7&2)
"I have a Straight staff member living in my head. Somewhere the programming has manifested as a separate nasty critical voice that questions EVERYTHING I do. Sanity begins to slip away. I can't make a decision. I'm afraid I'll make the wrong one. Hell, I'm afraid I'll make the right one, and life might get better. Then there will be something in my life that can be taken away again. I can't afford to care about anything. Only hatred is real.. Only *I* am real. But I don't know what *I* am. I define myself by my failures.. and limited successes. I define myself by my intelligence.. and having all the answers. My biggest fear is the judgement that will follow my saying "I don't know". I never commit to anything that will encourage that. I never try new things unless I have a better than 95% guarantee that it will work to my favor. I sit on the outside watching life go by.. ......"
It's not just the nightmares. I can relate to the above essay in frighteningly many ways. I cried when I read it and asked my husband to read it too. I'm not sure if I hope he did and I don't think I'll remember to ask him next time I think of it.
When you tear away the very foundations of someone's personality and leave them to rebuild a new one, the new one is just never the same. Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
Bill Warbis
"
Thank you, Antigen. I think this says a lot.
-
On 2005-04-22 22:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Antigen. I think this says a lot.
I would be lying if I said that didn't come accross as "So, you're that crazy, huh?"
When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
-
Oh, please, please, please no... I am so sorry because that is NOT what I mean. I mean that treating people harshly, tearing them down, especially developing young people and children, results in these painful introjects - not part of the true core self- that make life hell and continues the torment and abuse internally. I mean I agree with you and I agree with Alice Miller that we have to let go of the "poisonous pedagogy" and learn to educate or socialize or parent or treat all people in a loving, uplifting, humane way. I mean that I think Synanon methods are evil and damaging. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clear up this misunderstanding.
On 2005-04-22 23:15:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-04-22 22:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Antigen. I think this says a lot.
I would be lying if I said that didn't come accross as "So, you're that crazy, huh?
When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat
"
-
Thanks for that. I think I was half kidding, but thanks for that.
I don't know about Alice Miller. I looked over her website a little, might see if our library system has any of her books.
I've often described the Synanon method like this. It's like having a jealous, paranoid, overly controling and obsessive spouse, except that you have dozens of them. Because they become more than family to you, like it or not, those voices are on a par w/ things your parents or teachers or other important people drilled into your head. The difference is that you don't have the freedom to reject or color the Program dogma. That's the whole idea behind not looking at or communicating w/ the people around you in Group. Essentially, you're not permitted to converse w/ anyone till you can be trusted to support the dogma.
For example, when I hear my grandfather's often repeated declaration "raising children is like training dogs, firmness and consistency blah, blah, blah..." it comes in the context of how we used to make fun of him for saying things like that. When he died, my brother chose as his momentum grandpa's voice device (he'd had his voice box removed due to cancer and used a sort of vibrator held to his neck to simulate a voice). We had great fun w/ that. I wonder if he still has it?
When staff and Group said demeaning, humiliating things, there was no dissent except your own thoughts, which you had to keep carefully concealed or face confrontation in Group for "having bad thoughts" or a bad attitude or having your awareness up your ass (which I always envisioned as a colonoscopy... :rofl: it helped).
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.
James Lloyd
-
On 2005-04-23 10:28:00, Antigen wrote:
I don't know about Alice Miller. I looked over her website a little, might see if our library system has any of her books.
She's against harsh parenting techniques and child abuse..."poisonous pedagogy" refers to the belief systems that teach parents, teachers, & society that this child abuse is for the "child's own good."
I've often described the Synanon method like this. It's like having a jealous, paranoid, overly controling and obsessive spouse, except that you have dozens of them. Because they become more than family to you, like it or not, those voices are on a par w/ things your parents or teachers or other important people drilled into your head. The difference is that you don't have the freedom to reject or color the Program dogma. That's the whole idea behind not looking at or communicating w/ the people around you in Group. Essentially, you're not permitted to converse w/ anyone till you can be trusted to support the dogma.
For example, when I hear my grandfather's often repeated declaration "raising children is like training dogs, firmness and consistency blah, blah, blah..." it comes in the context of how we used to make fun of him for saying things like that. When he died, my brother chose as his momentum grandpa's voice device (he'd had his voice box removed due to cancer and used a sort of vibrator held to his neck to simulate a voice). We had great fun w/ that. I wonder if he still has it?
When staff and Group said demeaning, humiliating things, there was no dissent except your own thoughts, which you had to keep carefully concealed or face confrontation in Group for "having bad thoughts" or a bad attitude or having your awareness up your ass (which I always envisioned as a colonoscopy... :rofl: it helped).
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.
James Lloyd
"
I think what you are saying here points out how and why these methods used by programs that isolate children from the outside world are so dangerous. All of us have some painful introjects and internal critics, all/most of us have suffered some abuse from someone growing up, all of us have suffered under - at times- some awfully stupid, inhumane bad ideas about child rearing or disciplining - "poisonous pedagogoy"- at home or at school. But the use of these harsh, demeaning, relationship & trust breaking techniques in the name of enlightened "whole" child education and treatment in such a way that a child cannot "reality check", escape, or get information about himself and the world from other sources is torture and brainwashing. It is still hard for me to wrap my mind around the possibility that this is so wide-spread...
No one can know unless the victims are able to speak and for some I see that they just can't talk about it for a few years.
I applaud your courage and vision as a Witness, and your fighting spirit as a survivor.
-
On 2005-04-22 16:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"did this program staff actually mention the Synanon reference to the program at CEDU?
From what I have heard from my student is that they were very confrontational and defenses were torn down. My student is reluctant to talk about it much, which is probably fairly common. I hope that as time goes by, my child doesn't experience some of the traumatic memories that many on this forum describe.
My "student" is doing well, thank God. Happy to be home, more mature and appreciative of a good life in general. "
Not program staff or therapist, but the one you would call if you had a major issue.....dropped the word "Synanon" in our conversation. I didn't know about their "success" with heroin addicts, I just somewhat remembered seeing a news story about the cult church and the rattlesnake in the mailbox along time ago. I had to research them to figure out what this person might be talking about as far as methods and approach.....
My student has bad dreams, not as much lately....dealing productively with the previous trauma that led to initial self-destructive acting out at present and working on making a life. When student wants to talk about it --rarely does --- I talk, but try not to probe. A person needs to be in control of how much they can handle or stir up at one time. Summer vacation is best, when there is no school. It is common for young people to postpone dealing with traumatic issues when they are needing their energy for developmental leaps.
-
How many more years of HS does your student have? The academics were not very strong for my student and has some catching up to do. No nightmares, seems fine.
-
My student went to a charter summer school to catch up with state requirements upon return and then re-entered old school. The match there isn't great, but student wanted to put past behind and be a "normal" kid.
The education was another disappointment at BCA, which goes to show that just because someone talks about the "whole" child and drops names like Howard Gardner's on a web site doesn't mean that a parent should just assume that everybody is talking the same language and has the same educational philosophies & methods as you think you are signing up for.... I could never get a handle on it and had other more pressing concerns. Did you get a copy of your student's "individualized" ed plan? I did......
We left before we could actually figure out what was going on, but that was an issue for us, as was communication on the issue. We did have some great interactions with one teacher, but she wasn't in the position to address our systemic questions. I could never figure out what was going on in the assessment and work on the farm phase or how individual strengths/needs were addressed in the plan in a measurable way. But, we "pulled" fairly early on in the educational process.
On 2005-04-23 19:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How many more years of HS does your student have? The academics were not very strong for my student and has some catching up to do. No nightmares, seems fine."
-
Do you still have your BCA Parent Handbook? In the section under Academic Services it discusses Howard Gardenr, the "whole child" educational philosophy, etc.
Sounded like what we were looking for... Was it there and did it work for you?
"http://www.cedu2.com/a/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=101
Article authored by Al Tuck, Master Teacher
CEDU Academics is purposefully designed to help meet the unique learning needs of CEDU students. In that context, you are probably familiar with phrases like "experiential education," "arts infusion," and "multiple intelligences." This article is designed to provide some detailed information on the latter.
Howard Gardner conceived the concept of multiple intelligences, and it essentially focuses on the fact that not everyone learns in the same way. In his original work, Gardner identified seven distinct ways that people learn. Since then, an eighth has been added and a ninth one is under serious consideration. Following this introduction is a detailed summary (from Gardner and other sources) of the characteristics of each of these nine learning styles, or intelligences.
Most people can identify two or three areas that stand out for them as learners. Take a look at these special intelligence indicators and identify your own learning style or that of your child. While many believe that we should focus primarily on the styles that come easily and naturally to the student, research has shown that these more comfortable styles only open the gates to learning. Gardner and others have emphasized that, when lessons are learned and reinforced in a not-so-comfortable style as well, information is far more likely to be retained.
How does CEDU Academics incorporate this information into its educational philosophy? Within a few weeks after their arrival, CEDU High School and Middle School students are specifically tested by our Academic Services Advisor to determine their individual learning styles. This information is then made available to the CEDU faculty via our weekly staff meetings. With this invaluable information, our teachers are equipped to adapt lesson presentations, classroom activities, testing materials, and assessment techniques to match the unique learning styles of their students.
The following performance indicators with your children in mind, and try to identify those areas in which they seem to fit most comfortably. You might be surprised by the results. How do they compare with the areas that are more compatible with your own learning styles?
Special Intelligence Indicators Linguistic Intelligence - (Word Smart)
- Writes better than average for their age
- Spins tales and tells jokes and stories
- Has a good memory for names, places, dates, and trivia
- Enjoys word games
- Spells words accurately
- Appreciates nonsense rhymes, puns, tongue twisters, etc.
- Enjoys listening to the spoken word
- Has a good vocabulary for his/her age
- Communicates to others in a highly verbal way
These learners have highly developed auditory skills and are generally elegant speakers. They think in words rather than pictures. Possible career interests: Poet, journalist, writer, teacher, lawyer, politician, translator.
Logical-Mathematical Intelligence - (Number Smart)
- Asks a lot of questions about how things work
- Computes arithmetic questions in his/her head quickly
- Enjoys the challenges of math class
- Finds math games and math computer games interesting
- Enjoys playing chess, checkers, or other strategy games
- Enjoys working with logic puzzles and brainteasers
- Likes to experiment in a way that shows higher order thinking processes
- Thinks on more abstract levels than peers
- Has a good sense of cause and effect relationships for his/her age
These learners think conceptually in logical and numerical patterns making connections between pieces of information. Always curious about the world around them, these learners ask lots of questions and like to do experiments. Possible career paths: Scientists, engineers, computer programmers, researchers, accountants, mathematicians.
Musical Intelligence -(Music Smart)
- Tells you when music is off-key or disturbing in some other way
- Remembers the melody of songs
- Has a good singing voice
- Plays a musical instrument or sings in a choir or other musical group
- Has a rhythmic way of speaking and/or moving
- Unconsciously hums to him/herself
- Taps rhythmically on the table or desk as he/she works
- Is sensitive to the environmental noises, like rain of the roof
- Can easily imitate the voices and inflections of others
These musically inclined learners think in sounds, rhythms and patterns. They immediately respond to music either appreciating or criticizing what they hear. Many of these learners are extremely sensitive to environmental sounds (e.g. crickets, bells, dripping taps). Possible career paths: Musician, disc jockey, singer, composer.
Spatial Intelligence - (Picture Smart)
- Reports clear visual images
- Reads maps, charts, and diagrams more easily than text
- Daydreams more than peers
- Enjoys art activities
- Draws figures and pictures that are advanced for age
- Likes to view movies, slides, or other visual presentations
- Enjoys doing puzzles, mazes, ?Where?s Waldo?? or ?hidden picture? or ?I spy? type activities, and challenges like hidden pictures or similar games
- Builds interesting three-dimensional constructions for age (Legos)
- Gets more out of pictures than words when reading
- Doodles on workbooks, worksheets, or other materials
These learners tend to think in pictures and need to create vivid mental images to retain information. They enjoy looking at maps, charts, pictures, videos, and movies. Possible career interests: Navigators, sculptors, visual artists, inventors, architects, interior designers, mechanics, engineers.
Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (Body Smart)
- Excels in one or more sports
- Moves, twitches, taps, fidgets while seated for a long time in one spot
- Cleverly mimics other people?s gestures and mannerisms
- Loves to take things apart and put them back together again
- Has trouble keeping his/her hands off something new just seen
- Enjoys jumping, wrestling, or similar activities
- Shows skill on a craft or good fine-motor
coordination in other ways
- Has dramatic way of expressing him/herself - Reports different physical sensations while thinking or working
- Enjoys working with clay or other tactile medium, and enjoys hands on art activities
These learners express themselves through movement. They have a good sense of balance and eye-hand coordination. (e.g. ball play, balancing beams). Through interacting with the space around them, they are able to remember and process information. Possible career paths: Athletes, physical education teachers, dancers, actors, firefighters, artisans.
Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart)
- Enjoys socializing with peers
- Seems to be a natural leader
- Gives advice to friends who have problems
- Seems to be people smart -- attuned to others
- Belongs to clubs, committees, or other organizations
- Enjoys informally teaching other kids
- Likes to play games with other kids
- Has two or more close friends
- Has a good sense of empathy or concern for others
- Others seek out his/her company
These learners try to see things from other people's point of view in order to understand how they think and feel. They often have an uncanny ability to sense feelings, intentions and motivations. They are great organizers, although they sometimes resort to manipulation. Generally they try to maintain peace in group settings and encourage cooperation. They use both verbal (e.g. speaking) and non-verbal language (e.g. eye contact, body language) to open communication channels with others. Possible career paths: Counselor, salesperson, politician, business person.
Intrapersonal Intelligence (Self Smarts)
- Displays a sense of independence or strong will
- Has a realistic sense of his/her strengths and weaknesses
- Does well when left alone to play or study
- Marches to the beat of a different drummer in his/her style of living and learning
- Has an interest or hobby that he or she doesn't talk about much
- Has a good sense of self-direction
- Prefers working alone to working with others
- Accurately expresses how he/she is feeling
- Is able to learn from his/her failures and successes
- Has high self-esteem
These learners try to understand their inner feelings, dreams, relationships with others, and strengths and weaknesses. Possible career paths: Researchers, theorists, philosophers.
Naturalistic Intelligence (Nature Smarts)
- Has a strong affinity to the outside world, to the beauty in nature, or to animals
- Enjoys subjects, shows, or stories that deal with animals or natural phenomena
- May show unusual interest in subjects like biology, zoology, botany, geology, meteorology or astronomy
- Is keenly aware of his/her surroundings and changes in the environment
- Has highly developed senses that help him/her notice similarities, differences and changes in his/her surroundings
- May be able to categorize or catalogue things easily
- May notice things others might may not be aware of
- Likes to collect, classify, or read about things from nature ? rocks, fossils, butterflies, feathers, shells, and the like
- Prefers to be outside and readily appreciates and embraces activities like camping, hiking, scuba diving, bird watching, gardening, or climbing, or perhaps he/she may just like sitting quietly and noticing the subtle differences in his/her environment
These learners typically prefer outdoor activities, have a special connection to the wonders of nature, and usually think of the larger picture rather than dwelling on details. Possible career paths: Environmental science, on-location scientific research, philosophers, forestry, wildlife preservation, pastors
Note on a possible ninth intelligence - Existential Intelligence
There are many people who feel that there should be a ninth intelligence, existential intelligence (A.K.A.: "wondering smart, cosmic smart, spiritually smart, or metaphysical intelligence"). Gardner has alluded to the possibility of this intelligence in several of his works. He has stated that existential intelligence might be manifest in someone who is concerned with fundamental questions about existence, or who questions the intricacies of existence. Gardner has offered a preliminary definition as individuals who exhibit the proclivity to pose and ponder questions about life, death, and ultimate realities.
Children with existential intelligence are those ?old souls? who may appear to have a sixth sense, may be psychic, or may pose, and sometimes even answer, life's larger questions, like:
- Why am I here? Why are we here?
- Are there other dimensions, and if so, what are they like?
- Can animals understand us, or do animals go to heaven?
- Are there really ghosts?
- Where do we go when we die?
- Why are some people evil?
- Is there life on other planets?
- Where is heaven?
- Why and where does God live?
CEDU Academics remains committed to providing a high quality, fully accredited academic component that fully supports the emotional growth of the students we serve.
*********
Al Tuch, Master Teacher
CEDU High School/CEDU Middle School Al was drawn to CEDU High School by its emotional growth emphasis. His own emotional growth pursuits led him to participate in Lifespring trainings in the late 1970?s and early 1980?s, where he completed all of their courses, and then went on to staff several of their basic and advanced courses. After careers in the car rental business, real estate, and two entrepreneurial enterprises, Al began his teaching career in 1996. Prior to coming to CEDU in June of 2001, he chaired the Mathematics department at Arrowhead Christian Academy, in addition to his teaching responsibilities. ?I love kids, teaching, and the pursuit of personal growth. CEDU is a perfect match for me.? Al holds bachelor?s degrees in Mathematics from Occidental College and Kinesiology and a Master of Education with an emphasis in teaching from California Baptist University. He currently holds a California Multiple Subjects credential as well as secondary credentials in Mathematics and Kinesiology. Al is the father to two daughters and two stepchildren, ranging in age from 13 to 21."
-
Overall, I'm glad we stuck it out. Student did well,and as an upperclass student, had more privileges, connected with staff and students. Student is moving forward with life and doing very well.
-
Why do you guys refer to your children as "student"?
Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton
-
On 2005-04-24 17:39:00, Antigen wrote:
"Why do you guys refer to your children as "student"?<
1. Don't want to use personal, gender specific pronouns --extra help to protect identity
2. The place was advertised as a school for young persons with unique learning needs whose needs were not being met previously, thus contributing to emotional/behavioral issues
3. Patient & client don't seem appropriate... Maybe resident???
4. Possibly "our child" would be better.....
-
On 2005-04-24 17:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Overall, I'm glad we stuck it out. Student did well,and as an upperclass student, had more privileges, connected with staff and students. Student is moving forward with life and doing very well.
"
I am glad things are going well for your child. Ours is an amazingly strong-willed, courageous, and creative soul whom I am sure will continue to grow in discernment.
-
FUCK CEDU FUCK THEM ALL. I REMEMBER STAFF BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF PATIENTS.PROBILY STAFF ARE ON THIS SITE THEY ARE THE ONES DENIENG ARE FEELING JUST LIKE IN THE PROGRAM I HAVE A COUPLE OF WORDS FOR THEM. FUCK YOU YOU ARE OUT OF A JOB SHIT HEADS.
-
I went to CEDU prior to 2001, so I have no idea how things have changed as far as academics. But certainly, there weren't ANY when I was there, and qualifying CEDU as a school is a misnomer since it's legal designation was as group home.
Thus far, I have never heard a student say anything positive about the school since I departed. I've heard students reiterate what I've seen as far as receiving bogus credits (Science for woodchopping, communication for yelling in raps) and elementary level academics for high school "students." I am sure, in later years, CEDU attempted to legitimize their acdemic program, but to what effect I cannot say. BUt I do know, I would not trust staff to verify its authenticity.
-
Well, so you can have some idea, here is the breakdown of the CEDU curriculum as I remember it around the turn of the century. Or millenium. Whatever. From what I remember, each class was split into an A and B section, each of which took a 10 week block to complete.
If you don't want to read everything, just skip down to the Mathematics section to get the full jist of the academic horror that is CEDU.
I hope this post allows parents considering a CEDU a more objective look at what the academics at CEDU involved. Now you can see how truly underprepared your children will be for higher education after receiving a "CEDU education".
English (4 "Years"):
English 9 - A lot of arts and crafts, writing poetry, reading books at a middle school reading level
English 10 - Taught by the same teacher as English 9, it was basically just the same bullshit class, but you picked the books you would read, so you could actually challenge yourself if you wanted. Sort of.
American Lit - Actually a somewhat difficult class, this was the only course that reminded me of a real High School class. Val Davis was a very intelligent, demanding teacher, and plenty of kids would whine and take her to raps saying her class was "too demanding". (Funny, those same kids are on this site years later saying "boo hoo, CEDU didn't challenge me academically).
World Lit - Same approach as American Lit, only involving works such as Milton's "Paradise Lost" and Dante's "Divine Comedy". Resume-building and writing a senior thesis were main focuses.
Social Sciences (3 years):
US History 1 and 2 - Basically a crash course in US History starting with the American Revolution and ending with the Civil Rights Movement. Not a bad class, but the teachers had outdated textbooks and far too little time to prepare a good course.
Government - After taking this course, I knew about as much about the government as I did in 8th grade. Makes sense, because the course material was about the same.
Natural Sciences (3 years)
Biology - Actually a pretty good introduction into biology, but again not nearly as good as in a real high school because of the limited lab availability. Couldn't use burners or anything like that...kids were too "fucked up" at CEDU, remember?
Earth Science - Taught by Jim Hooper, a very smart man, I actually learned quite a bit about Earth Science, if you actually care about Earth Science.
Physics - Very brief and basic course, the culmination of which was firing off rockets. I don't know a damn thing about Physics to this day.
Chemistry (Optional) - If you wanted the 4th year of science credit, WHICH EVERY GOOD COLLEGE PRETTY MUCH REQUIRES, you had to be one of the most "in-agreement", upper school students to EARN the privilege to take this class. I never earned it, so I can't tell you what it was like.
Mathematics (2 years)
First off, let me say...2 YEARS OF MATH?!? Good luck getting into junior college with that. I had to take Trig and Pre-Calc at a post grad school to have a prayer of getting into a decent college.
Algebra 1 and 2 - Both classes met at the same time and with the same teacher. They basically handed you a text book and wished you the best of luck, and the teacher would come help you if you were having trouble TEACHING YOURSELF ALGEBRA. If everyone in, say, Algebra 1 was struggling with the same concept, then they'd teach the concept on the board.
Math was a travesty at CEDU...not being able to understand Math closes the door on a lot of really cool degrees in college.
Foreign Languages (2 years)
Spanish - The only language offered at CEDU, and even this was only introduced a year into my stay. I barely learned to construct a sentence in spanish, and we spent most of the time watching the animated version of Lord of the Rings.
I think that's about it for classes. Keep in mind that the first 6 months of a stay at CEDU involve taking, at the most, 2 of those classes, as the rest of your time is spent on the farm or in "Voyager Classroom", where basically you learn horticulture and how to draw.
A CEDU Diploma = one hell of a struggle to get into college!!! I had a 3.9 GPA and a 1580 on my SAT's, and I still didn't get into 11 of the 13 schools I applied to. Imagine how thrilled I was at finding out the only schools I could go to with scores like those were my 2 safety schools. I was lucky enough to be wait-listed at one of my top choices, where I was finally accepted and have been going to ever since.
I guess 2 years of math just wasn't going to cut it.
Not to worry, I think something like 60% of all CEDU grads don't bother with college anyways. I know, I know, that's just a statistic, not to be trusted, but when I take a look at all the people I knew at BCA, I'd say about 1 in every 4 went to college.
-
On 2006-03-06 10:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Not to worry, I think something like 60% of all CEDU grads don't bother with college anyways. I know, I know, that's just a statistic, not to be trusted, but when I take a look at all the people I knew at BCA, I'd say about 1 in every 4 went to college. "
That percentage becomes even more miniscule when you consider that 60% of of all cedu students, don't even bother to graduate cedu!!! So in reality, it's only 40% of the 40% of cedu kids who actually stay till graduation. What this means is that overall, only like 12%-15% of all kids who attend Cedu successfully graduate the program, and continue on to college. That's just completely pathetic, don't you agree?
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-03-06 14:53 ]
-
Oh yeah, completely agree. I was only talking about the ones who got there diplomas, but you're right...plenty of kids didn't even get THAT far.
-
When I went to RMA, my parents demanded that I be in classes full time. While other kids went off to chop wood, I went to classes.
Early on one of the math teachers took ill and I was asked, by my 5 fellow students, if I could teach them the material since I was widely regarded as being well ahead of my peers.
So I taught them Algebra 1 and Geometry for 8 weeks. I don't think the teacher ever returned.
Eventually I was asked to continue teaching, and I ended up teaching Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and Trig to the students there. They did not offer Physics, even though Will Vernard should have been qualified I think.
The point of this was that the school knew it had no teachers capable of teaching math, much less science, as most were not all that bright to begin with. Many people can complete courses without ever retaining the information for later use. As such, though someone attended college and may have received a degree, they might be unqualified or incapable of teaching others what they learned.
RMA and the other schools seemed to be this way. Many of the classes had names that reflected hobbies more than actual courses. I am one of the few people to this day that can say I took Basket Weaving in school.
Other courses were called Photography in Nature. Basically taking pictures of plants, leaves or whatever else we found. Very relaxing class, but hardly prep-work for attending a college. Animal Husbandry, which was nothing more than being able to identify what parts of the cow went with what cuts of meat at the grocery store. Hard to impress a college administrator with that kind of knowledge. They should have had video game playing and called it Computer Theory or Computer Strategy and Simulation.
Most states back then required 200-220 units to graduated and receive a diploma. Somehow, with Idaho having the same requirements, I graduated with more than 900 units, because these schools consider everything you do to be worth credits. So many of those credits came in the form of Home Economics. By the time you were halfway through the program, you often had worked in the kitchen, and that counts as credits for graduation. Pretty much everything we did counted. The diploma, for most of us, was not worth the paper it was written on.
I had it easy. Learning came naturally to me and I was far ahead in school before I arrived and could have taken the GED when I was 10 years old. But I watched so many students, who had at least been getting a normal education back home -equal to their learning levels- reduced to incompetent, uneducated teens as they "graduated" from the program, totally unequipped to handle college or anything requiring any semblance of an education.
But the staff would comment that we were not there to get educated, because that was not our problem. There were far more important things for us to be working on. I only attended classes often because my parents bugged the school often, asking endless questions about my academics. Because, ultimately, that was all they cared about. I could have been a mass murderer, but my parents would have just said, "uh huh, but how are your grades?" Because to them, good grades, meant good kid.
But what I was saying above, about how the staff made it "ok" for us not to get a good education, was the point of this post. They knew these schools did not have the staff or licensed teachers to provide a real education. It was not really a part of their Master Plan. The reason for this might be the same reason why dictatorships and Communist countries limit interaction with the outside world to their subjects. Education and free communication breed free thinkers. The last thing RMA and CEDU wanted for us, was to have us thinking for ourselves. Asking questions. Questioning what was going on.
And the reason they kept communication with the parents vague and uninformative, was for the very same reason. And they were well practiced at this tactic and very good at it. But based on what the two parents above demonstrated, not always perfect as some parents were able to figure it out for themselves.
It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children. And like the two posters above, when a parents gets an inkling that something is amiss, that their child may be in danger, action is taken. Right or wrong. We should be using this site to inform parents, teach them, educate them, so this stuff doesn't continue. Because ultimately, as the customers, only they can boycott and shutdown these places by not sending their kids there. What we should not be doing, is just using this as a place to rant back and fourth amongst ourselves on trivial issues.
Whether Roy was great or not is not something I came to this site to argue about. I come here to interact with former students and validate for myself, verify for myself that what I experienced was experienced by others and that I am not insane for thinking there was something wrong with these schools. For thinking they did something to us, against our will and that we were harmed by it.
-
I remember I was having a conversation with my Mom about a year after leaving BCA, and I mentioned something about how much I was struggling in my college math courses because of how ill-prepared I was at BCA.
She said "So the academics really were bad at Boulder Creek?"
I, having told my parents repeatedly how miserable the academics were, was astonished. "You mean you didn't believe me when I told you every week?"
I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at her response. But she told me, "Administration always told us that students would try to manipulate their parents with the same three, big lies."
I can't remember what the last 2 were, but apparently the first big lie that we were telling our parents in order to get pulled was that the academics were a sad, pitiful joke. I'm sure you can all see the irony there, and I'm sure it will give you a new-found love for CEDU.
Seriously, someone defend CEDU now. Someone tell me they were "doing the best thing for us".
Then go to your local supermarket and ask the cedu alum bagging groceries if he/she agrees. All those "animal husbandry" classes clearly paid off for them in the end.
-
On 2006-03-06 18:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"When I went to RMA, my parents demanded that I be in classes full time. While other kids went off to chop wood, I went to classes.
Early on one of the math teachers took ill and I was asked, by my 5 fellow students, if I could teach them the material since I was widely regarded as being well ahead of my peers.
So I taught them Algebra 1 and Geometry for 8 weeks. I don't think the teacher ever returned.
Eventually I was asked to continue teaching, and I ended up teaching Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and Trig to the students there. They did not offer Physics, even though Will Vernard should have been qualified I think.
The point of this was that the school knew it had no teachers capable of teaching math, much less science, as most were not all that bright to begin with. Many people can complete courses without ever retaining the information for later use. As such, though someone attended college and may have received a degree, they might be unqualified or incapable of teaching others what they learned.
RMA and the other schools seemed to be this way. Many of the classes had names that reflected hobbies more than actual courses. I am one of the few people to this day that can say I took Basket Weaving in school.
Other courses were called Photography in Nature. Basically taking pictures of plants, leaves or whatever else we found. Very relaxing class, but hardly prep-work for attending a college. Animal Husbandry, which was nothing more than being able to identify what parts of the cow went with what cuts of meat at the grocery store. Hard to impress a college administrator with that kind of knowledge. They should have had video game playing and called it Computer Theory or Computer Strategy and Simulation.
Most states back then required 200-220 units to graduated and receive a diploma. Somehow, with Idaho having the same requirements, I graduated with more than 900 units, because these schools consider everything you do to be worth credits. So many of those credits came in the form of Home Economics. By the time you were halfway through the program, you often had worked in the kitchen, and that counts as credits for graduation. Pretty much everything we did counted. The diploma, for most of us, was not worth the paper it was written on.
I had it easy. Learning came naturally to me and I was far ahead in school before I arrived and could have taken the GED when I was 10 years old. But I watched so many students, who had at least been getting a normal education back home -equal to their learning levels- reduced to incompetent, uneducated teens as they "graduated" from the program, totally unequipped to handle college or anything requiring any semblance of an education.
But the staff would comment that we were not there to get educated, because that was not our problem. There were far more important things for us to be working on. I only attended classes often because my parents bugged the school often, asking endless questions about my academics. Because, ultimately, that was all they cared about. I could have been a mass murderer, but my parents would have just said, "uh huh, but how are your grades?" Because to them, good grades, meant good kid.
But what I was saying above, about how the staff made it "ok" for us not to get a good education, was the point of this post. They knew these schools did not have the staff or licensed teachers to provide a real education. It was not really a part of their Master Plan. The reason for this might be the same reason why dictatorships and Communist countries limit interaction with the outside world to their subjects. Education and free communication breed free thinkers. The last thing RMA and CEDU wanted for us, was to have us thinking for ourselves. Asking questions. Questioning what was going on.
And the reason they kept communication with the parents vague and uninformative, was for the very same reason. And they were well practiced at this tactic and very good at it. But based on what the two parents above demonstrated, not always perfect as some parents were able to figure it out for themselves.
It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children. And like the two posters above, when a parents gets an inkling that something is amiss, that their child may be in danger, action is taken. Right or wrong. We should be using this site to inform parents, teach them, educate them, so this stuff doesn't continue. Because ultimately, as the customers, only they can boycott and shutdown these places by not sending their kids there. What we should not be doing, is just using this as a place to rant back and fourth amongst ourselves on trivial issues.
Whether Roy was great or not is not something I came to this site to argue about. I come here to interact with former students and validate for myself, verify for myself that what I experienced was experienced by others and that I am not insane for thinking there was something wrong with these schools. For thinking they did something to us, against our will and that we were harmed by it.
"
Sorry for quoting such a long post but I feel that this is an important one.
I could have written this post myself other than the fact that my parents just threw me into the program and I had the honor of chopping wood et al. that most students had.
I too taught my "algebra and geometry" class...it was the only math class that I have recollection taking...I mean teaching. If I remember correctly Will Vernard WAS our teacher (It might have been Bob though)...and he was also quite adept at math...however, most of the other students were struggling and Will...athough a very competent mathematician himself, was not as competent when it came to actually teaching the stuff. He had a tough time "simplifying" things so that the students could understand better. I saw where I could be of help the first day of class and offered to show the students some simple algebra. Will directed me to the chalkboard and handed me the chalk. I went on to explain things so that the students could get a basic grasp of what algebra actually was...they were having a tough time grasping the concept of a variable and for some reason, I was able to help them better than Will.
To make a long story short...I got frustrated also as in MY mind...I was there to learn...not to play "teacher" to students that were eons behind me academically (I was 17 and had 13 year olds in the class) so basically after the first two classes we all just sat around and listened to the RMA designated teacher tell his pre RMA "war stories".
please note that I'm not sure if it was Will or Bob that was teaching...but I'm pretty sure it was Will.
I still think I got an A in the class...pretty pathetic.
but it's really not the academics that I have a beef with...it is the basic premise of the so called "therapy" and the structure of the program itself.
-
Actually, I didn't have a hard time following Will at all. In fact the only reason I got a C in my final math class was because I slacked off.
Does anyone from RMA remember Mortenson math? It was this bullshit math they taught to lower school students that essentially used blocks for algebra. (They even had a calculus book, but we never got around to using it.) Like, a long skinny one was x, then a flat square was x squared, then the cube was x cubed. It was such total bullshit. I remember one guy in my peer group would just pile up the x cubed ones to look like a bunch of amps and speakers and he'd make the x do stage dives.
_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-03-07 01:19 ]
-
This is unfuckingbelievable.I mean, I knew it was bad. But students teaching at the school they are paying to attend?! And the funny thing (although I'm feeling pretty riled up about it)is that they told our parents complaining about it was one of the three big lies. Jesus Christ.
-
No...really...I got an education there...
I'll prove it to you...
just give me a bowsaw, sledge & wedge, maul, hatchet, wheel barrow, posthole digger, hammer, chisel, shovel, pulaski, drawknife and a weed whacker (all manual please)...and don't forget my safety glasses.
then...point me to the biggest piles of manure to be shoveled, logs to be cut/split/peeled, fields to be cleared, hole to be dug...
I'm telling ya...I'll prove it to ya...you'll see...they edjumacated me reeeal good!
-
I know. I felt that if I ever needed a job as a lumberjack, I would be a shoe-in.
-
On 2006-03-07 13:37:00, OKB4RMA wrote:
"No...really...I got an education there...
I'll prove it to you...
just give me a bowsaw, sledge & wedge, maul, hatchet, wheel barrow, posthole digger, hammer, chisel, shovel, pulaski, drawknife and a weed whacker (all manual please)...and don't forget my safety glasses.
then...point me to the biggest piles of manure to be shoveled, logs to be cut/split/peeled, fields to be cleared, hole to be dug...
I'm telling ya...I'll prove it to ya...you'll see...they edjumacated me reeeal good!"
I spent a year and a half at cedu, and this is about all the education I recieved too.
Problem was, I grew up in the construction business, so I already knew how to do all that stuff. What really I needed at age 15 was a proper academic education, not an 18 month refresher course on manual labor! Yeah, you said it all right,they edjumacated (translation: fucked us)real good!