Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 18, 2005, 11:26:00 AM
-
This morning I posted about being a parent that "enrolled" their child in a WWASPS facility. This is what I posted.....
"This is an important topic about WWASP being called "boarding schools". I am one of those parents. I was looking for a boarding school to offer my teen a way to get out of his laziness, be in a more progressive educational situation, experience another country and it's culture. It's not a sin to think you are offering your child an opportunity. He was a teen that was not in trouble.
It is different now, with the anti WWASPS sites. A few years ago when searching for boarding schools WWASP sprang up everywhere. No negative sites. After calling them, doing what we thought was our homework on this "school" we were convinced that this was the perfect opportunity for our child, not a punishment. A new school, didn't mention "program", in Costa Rica. I personally love this country and travel there. He was to learn the culture, learn Spanish as a second language (not first), be involved in a great music program, be aggressive in his education, go surfing, golf, etc.
What many of you may not know is the fact that they handle parents like myself differently. I spoke with my son almost weekly. He "worked" in his family reps office and I called and was able to talk with him. Sure he used to say things like "this place isn't what you think it is", but at the time we thought that he was just wanting to come home. Natural for a 16 year old. To much work in a boarding school, alot easier at home. The staff were trained how to handle us. "Your child is doing great, just homesick, natural, will say things to get home".
This is a topic that many people don't mention. When reading articles about these programs they always mention that they are facilities for troubled teens, making it sound like every child behind those walls have major problems. Believe me, there were and are many teens in these places that are not "troubled" teens and their parents "enrolled" them, didn't commit them. Or they are there because their parent's standards are so high that they think that smoking a cigarette or having sex at 17 warrants commitment."
Immediately, responses come back like ?bullsh***** the troops? and ?Stupid is as stupid does?. I come to this forum for information to help the cause. The cause that I hoped many of you care about. I usually don?t post because of experiences like this in the past. I have been actively working to change legislation and save these children from the prisons that they call home.
How are we going to get to the parents that have/or will have their teens in these facilities without sharing our experiences. How can we change things if people won?t bother to post because of situations like this?
I am not defending myself to anyone. I am accountable for the decisions I made and learned from them. I am an intelligent business woman that was taken in by WWASPS. There are many of us out there. They were really good at it, especially a few years ago before forums like this were available. This is why I work so hard, so that others will not have to suffer. Sharing information, sharing your experiences. That is what this forum is all about, not a gossip forum for those that choose to attack others.
-
Bravo, I agree 100%.
i also know many of these comments come from surviors of other abusive boarding schools,therfore they have very little patient with us "stupid" parents.
When we come from a place of understanding each other's experiences,it opens the opportunity for better communication.
The bigger goal for us all is to stop these abusive programs ASAP. To stop other children from being enrolled. Let's work toward that goal and not belittle one another. Nothing anyone can say, I havent said to myself already a million times already.
-
::mecry::
Maybe you should understand why some people can't help be aggressive on this subject, and you could learn to ignore them. Just as we learn to ignore similar statements by program parents.
"obviously you left the program too early" etc...
this sword cuts both ways
-
I will second what you've said here - My experience was much the same. I actually thought I was buying a wonderful educational, as well as rehabilitative program. Thats what I was sold. I to, thought I had done my home work. I went to several local professionals and asked what they thought, and with out exception all thought it sounded good. I looked around on the web - and saw only the positive.
I also know from talking with so many post program parents that they sell the parent whatever the parent is looking for - and you are not the only one who thought it was a boarding school.
As for the hostility - sometimes we just have to take our lumps and move on. You have an important voice and important message. Its one other parents might listen to - and that is key - If you want to help the kids you have to have the ear and respect of the parents.
-
"Maybe you should understand why some people can't help be aggressive on this subject, and you could learn to ignore them."
Being aggressive is one thing, giving your side to the story is another. We don't want to learn to ignore them. That is what this forum is for. Letting both parents and teens tell of their experiences. We believe your statements, why do you chose to ignore ours? If one parent comes to this site and reads a statement and it saves a child from your experience, is it not worth it?
"Just as we learn to ignore similar statements by program parents."
Ignore nothing. Learn and help!
-
On 2005-06-18 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Being aggressive is one thing, giving your side to the story is another. We don't want to learn to ignore them. That is what this forum is for."
Everytime someone comes here to post about abuse in a program, they get reemed by program parents and 'graduates' of said program. Everyone here gets the privelage of being called a liar, this is not new. I didn't realize this forum only had one purpose. Who is ignoring your statement? We heard it a million times from parents... 'I was duped.'
Thats great. Just stop telling other people what they should or shouldnt post.
-
On 2005-06-18 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What many of you may not know is the fact that they handle parents like myself differently. I spoke with my son almost weekly. He "worked" in his family reps office and I called and was able to talk with him. Sure he used to say things like "this place isn't what you think it is", but at the time we thought that he was just wanting to come home."
He 'worked' in the family reps office? You got to speak to him on the phone even while he was on lower levels? Can you explain how this happened, I've never heard of this kind of special treatment before.
-
First,you parents that come here and talk about your mistakes with your kids are brave, and I commend you all.
Some of us are your age and were committed as kids, so we broach the subject from a different perspective. I think it is hard for us to understand how our parents could have subjected us to such horrible tactics, sent us away without even caring enough to research the technics they were subjecting us to. How they ignored the headlines about brainwashing, ignored the abuse charges, etc.
But imagine for a moment you are 20 years old and trying to get over the worse 3 years of your life. You were sent away to "drug rehab" and abused, locked up, tortured. You have seen the articles on Costa Rica. You know the place was always controversial...
Then some parent comes along and says the only reason they sent their kid away to this hell hole was because they thought it was a wonderfull school and that there kid was sent there for being "lazy". I can understand how they would just immediately think..."what a stupid shit" and lash out. I mean, dear parent, what the fuck? How much research did you do? It isn't true that the costa rica facility existed in a vacuum. Controversy surrounded the place...
You are asking for understanding of what you did. I think a little reciprocation to the people who react unfavorable is in order.
-
She who pays the piper calls the tune.
Ginger pays for this forum.
She says it is here so that there is an absolutely uncensored place people can talk about this industry and the related issues.
So that's what this forum is for, and that's what this forum is all about.
I can sympathize with how you must feel, but if you feel there is a need for a different kind of forum than Fornits as it is, then you need to set up a website and make one.
The survivors need someplace they can talk out of turn and yell and holler and say what they really think of program parents. They've already put up with being silenced, and for too long. An important part of their healing is to have someplace where they will not be silenced no matter what they choose to say.
They push the limits to prove to themselves they can. It's a healing thing.
The parents want empathy and want everyone to understand how very good this pack of frauds and con-men are at sucking in victims.
They get upset when the survivors don't give them empathy. I think it's selfish to expect empathy from the survivors. They aren't here to meet your needs. They have their own traumas to get over, they don't need yours too.
People like me are here to hear what the survivors and parents have to say, and to share information about the mental health issues surrounding those of us who really do have serious mental health issues and really do need to have quality, ethical care available. And what kinds of care we need to have available so that reforms stop the abuses, improve quality of care, and put safeguards in place without making it more difficult for us to get the kinds of care we really need when we need it.
Program parents and staffers are here to try to convince any prospective customers that might show up here that all the survivors are liars, and all the disenchanted parents are duped enablers.
The side effect of all this is that Fornits has become a fairly effective place for parents considering a program to show up to check out its possible dark side, and for those of us concerned about the issue to brainstorm ideas for reform, and to make us aware of industry developments so that we can use grassroots activism to do things like helping stop a new facility from opening (Kemper).
But that's not Fornits whole purpose or direct purpose. Fornits direct purpose is to make a place for discussion of this subject that is absolutely, completely uncensored.
If you think you can put together a moderated forum on your own website that will be more effective for what you want to do than Fornits' uncensored free-for-all, you can do that.
What you don't get to do is redefine what's already here, because you aren't the one who made it or is putting in the time or is paying the bills.
If Ginger wanted to change it to a moderated forum discussing only pink wallpaper, she could change it tomorrow.
It's her living room.
Because of her rules of no censorship, it's perfectly okay for you to say what you did and ask for what you did.
I just don't hold out much hope of you getting it.
Your best bet for getting what you want would probably be to start up your own site, administer it yourself, work with like-minded people to get up some content to draw hits on your site, and start a thread here to talk about what you've made and what you're trying to do with it.
Timoclea
-
On 2005-06-18 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
How can we change things if people won?t bother to post because of situations like this?
Please try and understand the difficulty and complexity of trying to screen out those angry, insulting personal attacks. I can't do it. I can't know enough about each individual or each situation to confidently screen out the bad w/o censoring valid and important info. Also, I've found that if I'm too quick to shut people down, they get indignant and then they never come back again.
You must understand by now that many people are extremely emotional about this issue. If I shut out all the angry, hurt people, then who's left?
No, I think the better solution is for people who want to participate in this dialog to expect some hostility. If you're personally offended by some remark you can ignore it or answer it, explaining your position. But, in a word, I won't bend over backward to try and make this discussion all friendly and dispassionate. It's an emotionally charged issue no matter how you wrap it.
Finally, I do understand how they reel parents in and, more importantly (imo) how they bring you along a step at a time, leaking just a little info here and there as they think you can handle it till, finally, many parents who don't smell a rat early on wind up joining the ranks of the blind faithful.
THAT is one of the aspects of this story that I hope people will start to understand. And, again, I never have believed that it's all about the money, though money is always a big part of it. I think it's about blind faith and the lust for power. The money often lands up as investment capital in public policy (official or not) that these zealots need in place to further their crusade.
Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.
James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
-
THAT is one of the aspects of this story that I hope people will start to understand. And, again, I never have believed that it's all about the money, though money is always a big part of it. I think it's about blind faith and the lust for power. The money often lands up as investment capital in public policy (official or not) that these zealots need in place to further their crusade.
This is an aspect of these programs that I wish more people would "get".
People think this is all some sort of Ponsy scheme and all about lining the pockets of people at the expense of the children. If this was true, they would all be shut down tomorrow.
Instead it is much more insidious than that. This is our societys attempt to "correct" our children, to make them look and act in a certain way, and to these zealots the ends certainly justify the means.
And these zealots just don't run the facilities but instead have involved themselves in every aspect of public life, making what we call "the program" a disfunctional big brother aspect of society at large.
This is how they get away with it, and when the shit goes down, no one even questions what is really going on, they just hyperfocus on a specific incidence of "abuse".
Those of us that were unfortunate enough to be locked away 30 something years ago and then spent years thinking of what a strange experience we went thru, one day woke up and discovered the "program" that fucked us up as kids had permeated society in ways we never would have expected.
Yes Ginger, you are spot on again...it is a crusade, and it is an emotional charged issue.
-
As some of you may know, we are the grandparents of a young lady sent to Casa by the Sea when she was 14. She spent 10 months there, and never once was able to talk with her mother (did not "work the system" adequately to raise above Level II). She was kept from the world, and had all her letters from us blocked when we continued our campaign of educating her mother on the true nature of The Program and desperately trying to retreive her from the jaws of WWASPS. My method of informing parents of potential WWASPS "students" is by anecdote. If I continually contribute the small daily occurences she endured at Casa, I hope to let readers evaluate my information and make an informed decision...which cannot be anything but "Run, Run, As Fast As You Can In The Other Direction!!!"
This adolescent was typically teen, but was a thorn in the side of her new step-father. His solution to The Problem Child was to convince the mother to send her off. Well, after nearly a year there, suffering psychological harm and abandonment fears, she was brought home, where...gosh, what a surprise...it did not go well. She now lives permanently with us, and is doing extremely well as a nearly-senior in high school. She speaks by phone with her mother from time to time, but stilted, difficult conversations with little mutual interest make these rare and quick contacts. If my recounting of our experiences (so typical of WWASPS survivors) can change things, maybe prevent a kid from being sent, maybe shutting down the places, then I have succeeded. Casa was shut down by the Mexican government after she left. Hopefully my constant calls to US and Mexican government officials, reporters, forums such as Fornits, as well as anybody else who would listen, helped make a difference
I DO find it hard to condone parents who send their kids off without the possibility of checking on them, but that's me. If WWASPS were really a boarding school, I'm surprised that ANY parent would send their kid off without checking daily...at least, weekly...on how things are going. Our kid just got her first job as a hostess in the fanciest Mexican restaurant in town (she 1/2 Mexican, so looks the part). Her first day of work, she wasn't home by 10:30PM, so I called to check on her. Second day, I at least just called her cell phone, so as not to embarass her with the restaurant staff. I simply cannot fathom having your kid go off alone. She is now 16, nearly 17, but WWASPS takes kids as young as 12 (7 at Majestic Ranch). Parents, don't you want to know which movie theater your kid is at, much less if she is alive and eating well in a foreign country?
WWASPS is evil. Some parents are evil. I always hope this mother (our oldest daughter) will "come to her senses" someday, but she refuses to learn just what her daughter went through, and has screamed at her to stop talking about it whenever the slightest mention of traumas at Casa are touched upon. Unbelievably, one of their phone conversations recently touched on how distressful it was for the girl to have her mother abandon her to WWASPS. [These issues are spoken of rarely, softly, and never contain the truly horrific experiences she tells me about late at night.] Her mother's response?
"If I had it to do again, I'd still send you there. You'd be deadorinjail otherwise."
Oh my God. It was a sock in the gut to discover that the mother was a cult groupie, still spouting WWASPS rhetoric and buzzwords. There is no hope left for her. Our family is fractured by WWASPS, but the remaining tight-knit group will just go on, without the Black Sheep parent who did not choose to parent. Rather, she chose to relinquish her role, and in doing so, relinquished the entire extended family from which she came.
If my experiences and anecdotes help keep a family together and sane, it is a good thing. This forum has space for all viewpoints, and I can display our bad times as well as fall victim again to WWASPS if a groupie choses to attack my postings. I've never noticed a WWASPie questioning politely my information. I'd expect inquiring parents to be able to handle my information with much more intelligence than a "...deadorinjail" maniac.
More power to Fornits.
-
//It isn't true that the costa rica facility existed in a vacuum. Controversy surrounded the place... //
Well, early on, it did. What I mean is, there was very little press on Dundee specifically, until the riot and closing. Not much on WWASP in general - nothing like there is now.
Googling and web searching in general just turned up dozens of pro program sites. I thought this indicated what a good program it was. 'Wow - look at all the people recommending them'
I recall when I first discovered the various forums - Voy and BST and so on - I was relieved Dundee wasn't mentioned. Ignorant as I was, I thought this meant Dundee was the exception. It was my son who pointed out to me (after I began asking questions)that this was b/c the program was so new nobody was out and talking yet. Man, did I feel like an idiot for not figuring that out for myself.
But, I have often noticed this same mind set with other parents who begin to understand some of the realities - that was there - my kid was here - so it doesn't apply.
It must be pointed out over and over, the program is the program where ever it is.
Much of the problem is ignorance and mis information. People do not know about the controversy; find it beyond believing when they learn of it, and there is, in general, this positive spin. For example, Brat Camp. Jeff is quite Right. This will make these out door programs look like the answer for a lot of troubled teens. Parents will be flooding the phone lines.
They will have no knowledge of Michelle or Aaron and will most likely never know what a risk it is.
There is the assumption that such a program is operated by professionals who like kids and want to help them. There is the assumption that it is operated in a safe mannor with no more risk to life and limb than any camper encounters.
Same for the program. It is incomprehensible that they are operating with no oversight or accountability to the states and countries they are in. And who in there wildest dreams would imagine they would put kids in OP (or what ever they call it) for even a full day - never mind the weeks and months that they actually do! I mean - that is just not imaginable. And keep in mind - always - they do not tell the parents these things are going on. No parent enrolls their kid in the program with foreknowledge of the realities of OP, or work sheets or the diet restriction or the no talking - no looking up, or to the right, or to the left - I mean, none of this is explained - and it is hard to believe when hearing it. It is much easier to believe it is all lies and manipulation - at least when you are just hearing it from one kid who has a history of jerking you around.
For me, personally, I was disturbed by the letters I received, b/c I know my son, and this wasn't the kind of things he would make up; I was disturbed at the misleading information I got from Teen Help, as to how long it would take to get to level 3, and graduate and so on; But the real loud wake up call was realizing there were kids in all the "schools" making the same allegations my son was making. No way they could be conspiring to yank the parental chain as we had been told - they were saying the same things from all over the globe.
Parents were on the BBS from all over - "Yes, my son said that too - ha ha - what clever liars they are"
Me:Shit! Something is wrong with this picture!
And this was long before I learned about OP and what the program means by "restraint".
I do tend to be impatient with parents who have all this info and still refuse accept that they have made a terrible mistake. But I know the conditioning is powerful. This too, is something very hard to explain to outsiders.
I didn't intend to go on so - I guess my point is just that until recently - it was no easy thing to find much truth about the programs. This situation has improved - but still - if a parent has no reason to suspect such things exist as brutal and negligent private owned program - they don't even know to look.
Back to the original post here - I don't know that they were asking for censorship - seemd more like advice to be less hostile and more might get done.
Spots - glad to hear your Gran daughter is doing well.
-
On 2005-06-18 10:08:00, GregFL wrote:
"But imagine for a moment you are 20 years old and trying to get over the worse 3 years of your life. You were sent away to "drug rehab" and abused, locked up, tortured. You have seen the articles on Costa Rica. You know the place was always controversial...
Then some parent comes along and says the only reason they sent their kid away to this hell hole was because they thought it was a wonderfull school and that there kid was sent there for being "lazy". I can understand how they would just immediately think..."what a stupid shit" and lash out. I mean, dear parent, what the fuck? How much research did you do? It isn't true that the costa rica facility existed in a vacuum. Controversy surrounded the place...
You are asking for understanding of what you did. I think a little reciprocation to the people who react unfavorable is in order.
"
I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there. Being one of the orignal 10 students, I have seen the facility grow from a delapitated old dude ranch to a high security prison in the center of the jungle. The program was non-existant for the most part at that time. As more and more kids came in, rules came in place, staff members were brought in. In the first three months, we built the "school" as the program was placed around us. As time went on, the facility was converted to a full fledged WWWASP community. So please do not dictate to us our situation and the situation I was in. You were not there, so therfor have absolutly no FIRST HAND knowledge of this place and the events that occured there. For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about.
-
Heres a quote about the reason for the hostility I found on:
http://www.tbfight.com/ (http://www.tbfight.com/)
"While you can modify the child's behavior and structure the behavior, for many of these people, by breaking their spirit, you're going to create an incredible sense of anger and resentment."
Psychiatrist Gary Glass
-
You're right, BK, I did jump right to "well wadaya want me to do about it." Sorry, my bad. Honestly, that's not the thought I started out to convey, but I got carried away.
What I meant to say was 1) expect some hostility (by the time I pecked that out and pulled the turnovers out of the oven several people had said it already.) and 2) harsher than that, I have no sympathy whatever for any parent who wants to take that hostility as an excuse to not participate if you've got something you want to add. This is NOthing, NOTHING! compared to a real live, full on rap on YOU in the round, let alone months or years of them. This is just words on a screen, no spit flying, no pain, no barbed wire fences; you can take it in small doses or not at all. Your call.
Yes, the sales pitch is convincing. And it didn't begin when you first searched Google for pages about "troubled teens". You've been bombarded w/ messages right along the same lines from the day the nurse removed your newborn baby from your arms and informed you that he/she would be taken for tests and stabalization for at least 10 hours (or... long enough to make starting breastfeeding a little trickey) Did you fight it? Did you argue? Did you want to but maybe you were too afraid?
And it goes on from there in like fashion. No wonder parents ta' day are such suckers! It's amazing to reflect on how the art of parenting has been so nearly lost in our society. 150 years ago, we had near total litteracy w/o compulsory government schooling. When the first compulsory schooling laws took effect in Massachusetts, there were riots. People did not easily or trustingly turn their children over to government schoolpeople.
God, it's amazing if you just slow down, take a minute and think about the state of things. We take our doctors' advice (unless we're weird, bookish, bodacious broads) and let them shoot vaccines into them. Anyone who would question or object (as broads mentioned above) are persumed to be paranoid idiots. And when, a couple of years down the road we read about the link between murcury in vaccines and autism, we STILL continue to trust blindly. What ever happened to prescience?
What ever happened to that spirit of independence, ruggedness and autonomy that we get all dewey eyed about on Independence Day and whenever the commander in thief shipps off another raft of young men to someone else's war?
It's a hollow promise. Has been for a long time now. If you kid is not pissed off, they haven't been paying attention. Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe. -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
return undef() if /coercion/i;
-
People just do as told, accept what is told, dont think, are milquetoast to be totally honest, and generally just seem not totally there. Like theyre stuck living in their little consumerist utopia leaving all the decisions to other people while they do their jobs, get their money, and then spend it.
When shit happens, nobody cares because nobody WANTS to care. They just want their income and spending money.
Until EVERYONE gets screwed over (and loses that) there wont be much done to change the way things are. Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine
-
On 2005-06-18 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-06-18 10:08:00, GregFL wrote:
"But imagine for a moment you are 20 years old and trying to get over the worse 3 years of your life. You were sent away to "drug rehab" and abused, locked up, tortured. You have seen the articles on Costa Rica. You know the place was always controversial...
Then some parent comes along and says the only reason they sent their kid away to this hell hole was because they thought it was a wonderfull school and that there kid was sent there for being "lazy". I can understand how they would just immediately think..."what a stupid shit" and lash out. I mean, dear parent, what the fuck? How much research did you do? It isn't true that the costa rica facility existed in a vacuum. Controversy surrounded the place...
You are asking for understanding of what you did. I think a little reciprocation to the people who react unfavorable is in order.
"
I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there. Being one of the orignal 10 students, I have seen the facility grow from a delapitated old dude ranch to a high security prison in the center of the jungle. The program was non-existant for the most part at that time. As more and more kids came in, rules came in place, staff members were brought in. In the first three months, we built the "school" as the program was placed around us. As time went on, the facility was converted to a full fledged WWWASP community. So please do not dictate to us our situation and the situation I was in. You were not there, so therfor have absolutly no FIRST HAND knowledge of this place and the events that occured there. For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about."
First, I am sorry you were sent there. I love Costa Rica,and I would hate for that to be my memory of a very special place.
second, you have missplaced anger towards me. I did not bash anyone only asked what I assume was one of your parents to try to understand some of where the hostility might be coming from.
It was a mistake for your parents to send you there, irrespective of the history of the place. It was run by A synanon derivite program which has proven to be harmfull to children.
If you parents admit the mistake, you have it over many other kids..witness the thread above about the girl and her mom. Hell, I went thirty years before I got an apology, and then my father stopped having much to do with me, still proclaiming he did the right thing to other family members.
You are not that much different than me anon, our experiences are only seperated by time.
-
Yeah, you're not wrong. But nobody sets out and aspires to blandness. We're told that we have to do the school thing if we hope for success. Look around you. None of the great luminaries of our time or any other did particularly well in school, though many were absolute freaks for education.
Here are a couple of lists:
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm (http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm)
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts2.htm (http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts2.htm)
One of the most heartbreaking aspects of the troubled parent industry is that one of it's primary purposes seems to be to finish off those kids who resist the breaking process. Bells, detentions, having to announce to the whole classroom when you need to pee, letter grades, cliquing and bullying... if all that doesn't break em and they still have enough autonomy and spunk by the time they're 15 to resist, well now, we've got JUST the place for them!
It makes me sad. When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
-
God, but my spelling sux!!
You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.
--Charles Austin Beard
-
]
I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there.... For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about."
You are wrong here...all these programs have been immersed, in fact swimming in controversy for the last 30 years. Goto my forum, the seed discussion forum,and you will see a very interesting article I just posted from 1974 accusing the place I was in of using brainwashing methods on the kids.
The state department of our government has been warning parents against sending their kids to these camps in foreign lands. Many years ago, television shows such as 60 minutes and 20/20 ran series on these foreign Behavior modifications schools.
Even in the absence of all outside criticism, sending your kid away to a foreign land for corrective measures just reeks of a dangerous rotten decision.
Like I said, your parents seem to have come to some understanding that what they did was wrong and that makes you a lucky kid. I also said your parents were brave for telling their story here. I believe that..it takes integrity to admit when you are wrong.
"In almost every region of the world, there are facilities for the treatment of minor children with drug/alcohol and/or discipline problems. These private and state-owned overseas treatment centers can often be characterized as "Behavior Modification Facilities." Parents/guardians enroll their minor children in these facilities in the hope they will improve their problematic behavior.
Some facilities request parents/guardians to sign a contract for their minor child''s treatment authorizing its staff to act as their agents. These contracts purport to give staff very broad authority to take any actions deemed necessary, in the staff''s judgment, for the health, welfare and progress in the child''s program. The facilities can be located in relatively remote areas, restrict the minor child''s contact with the outside world, and employ a system of graduated levels of earned privileges and punishments to stimulate behavior change. The minor child''s communication privileges may also be limited.
The Department of State has no authority to regulate these entities, whether they are private or state-owned, and does not maintain information about their corporate or legal structures or their relationships to each other or to organizations in the United States. The host country where the facility is located is solely responsible for compliance with any local safety, health, sanitation, and educational laws and regulations, including all licensing requirements of the staff in that country. These standards may not be strictly enforced or meet the standards of similar facilities in the United States. The Department of State has, at various times, received complaints about nutrition, housing, education, health issues, and methods of punishment used at some facilities.
Prior to enrolling their minor children in such overseas "Behavior Modification Facilities," the Department of State strongly recommends parents/guardians visit the facility and thoroughly inform themselves about both the facility and the host country''s rules governing it and its employees"
If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is. When the The state dept "strongly" recommends anything,something is amiss.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/bro ... _1220.html (http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1220.html)
gregfl
-
"This is an important topic about WWASP being called "boarding schools". I am one of those parents. I was looking for a boarding school to offer my teen a way to get out of his laziness, be in a more progressive educational situation, experience another country and it's culture. It's not a sin to think you are offering your child an opportunity. He was a teen that was not in trouble>>>
I am also one of those parents that sent her child off for "help". But, I didn't do my real good homework until my son was already at Eagle Point Christian Academy, Lucedale, MS. It is owned and operated by the Fountain family. I began searching the internet and found nothing but horror stories surrounding that place. That was all it took for me to know that we weren't taking any chances and rescued my son 3 1/2 days later.
Today, the internet is full of stories surrounding each place. Victims pouring their hearts out in hopes of saving even one child. But here come the ignorant parents "well, it has changed, they don't abuse them anymore".
Believe it or not, but I get e-mails all the time from parents who have still placed their child at this hell hole. They have done internet searches and read all the victim's testimonies. Yet, still believe it is a good place for their kid. Why take a chance? I just don't understand it.
If a doctor was killing and making his patients sick (which the victims began blasting him on the internet)....would you still be willing to risk your health at that particular doctor's office? I think that says it all right there. Of course you wouldn't.
-
Ginger and I went to a protest of a modern day incarnation of the program we were in. We told the parents that we were subjected to the very same techniques that their kids were going thru and that it was harmfull, but most of them just got mad at us.
Even still, I believe and heard that protest caused a few kids to be pulled from the program as did a follow up protest I attended.
All we can do is do what we are doing. Talk about it and let the truth find its own way.
-
On 2005-06-18 20:58:00, GregFL wrote:
Talk about it and let the truth find its own way.
Dude! http://fornits.com/quotes.php?rno=740 (http://fornits.com/quotes.php?rno=740) :nworthy: The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
--John Adams, U.S. President
-
Even in the absence of all outside criticism, sending your kid away to a foreign land for corrective measures just reeks of a dangerous rotten decision.
Question for any and all, but especially program parents. Do you know the difference between the reputable, legacy boarding schools and anything established after, say, the 1970's or so? Do you understand that you can't buy w/ money alone passage into those elite circles? What I mean to say is, are you new money ppl who actually thought that a school established in the 80's or 90's and espousing a mix of newage and good old fashioned discipline was the same thing as, say, the Groton School or St. Paul?s? Did you really think you were buying the real thing? So cheap? And w/o qualification?
When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
-
On 2005-06-18 11:57:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"Heres a quote about the reason for the hostility I found on:
http://www.tbfight.com/ (http://www.tbfight.com/)
"While you can modify the child's behavior and structure the behavior, for many of these people, by breaking their spirit, you're going to create an incredible sense of anger and resentment."
Psychiatrist Gary Glass "
Oh, reading this again, I have to answer it. A lot of the hostility around here comes from Program proponants. It usually comes masked in condescending, sanctimonious tones. But it's unmistakably there.
The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
-
On 2005-06-18 20:41:00, Watchaduen wrote:
If a doctor was killing and making his patients sick (which the victims began blasting him on the internet)....would you still be willing to risk your health at that particular doctor's office? I think that says it all right there. Of course you wouldn't.
Actually, it happens all the time. Unless and until you or a close friend gets critically ill, you just assume that the local hospital, though maybe not state of the art, is at least up to some sort of standard.
The reality is more like this:
You have a seering pain or other frightening symptoms that compel you to exceed all speed limits and disregard all but the most important traffic control devices on the way to the nearest hospital.
It's not enough that the ER staff keep you waiting through the wee hours, well into the new day before they decide it's actually a serious matter, not just the flue or a jonesin' junkie. You stay on for weeks of obvious neglect and idiocy, thinking these people who rescued you must know best. Takes someone slapping you upside the head w/ a 2x4, practically, to jolt you from the hero worship and direct you to utter the term "second opinion".
But then, all this lunacy of mine was based on the rediculous notion that Big Brother was watching over the local hospital. Nothing could be further from the truth! Big Brother doesn't exist. But Guido does!
You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author
-
On 2005-06-18 20:41:00, Watchaduen wrote:
" It's not a sin to think you are offering your child an opportunity. He was a teen that was not in trouble"
No its not a sin.
It is a mistake..and a very big one. Once this mistake has been made, you cannot take it back. Those experiences become part of who your child is and how he views the world. He/she probably now has issues with trust and issues with authority.
What you can do is take responsiblity for your bad decision, atone to your child and work to spreak the truth about these places in hopes of preventing exposure of these mind numbing life altering experiences to other unsuspecting families and kids.
Part of making it right with your children is to get on their side totally. No more the world against them, but instead you and them against the world..the bad part of it anyway. Let them know how your were duped and why it was YOUR mistake to let them con you and just how bad you feel about it and how come hell or high water, it will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
If you are here, perhaps you are already doing that.
I commend you for your efforts, and I mean that in the plural...all you parents that are trying to set it right. It is the only right thing to do.
-
ps...Cheryl...your signature says it all. Thanks so much for telling your story.
-
[email protected] here... about the money issue being the sole reason wwasps exist:
I think money has 99 percent of the stake in this thing... There are issues that surround wwasp and rehabilitation centers in general that do not have anything to do with money, yeah, but all I see is wwasp trying to make a buck...
The seminars do bother me though... I have a hard time reconciling the fact that wwasps would use the type of seminars they do, just to keep parents and kids quiet until they are long gone... These seminars can have long lasting effects, and do seem to lead the participant away from questioning what other people are doing and into a form of self abuse... I always assumed that this was just to keep everyone quiet until years later... But it does seem as if there is some societal influence being applied...
I dare not venture farther than what I just insinuated :smile:, but I do think it is something to look into...
-
It is different now, with the anti WWASPS sites. A few years ago when searching for boarding schools WWASP sprang up everywhere. No negative sites. After calling them, doing what we thought was our homework on this "school" we were convinced that this was the perfect opportunity for our child, not a punishment. A new school, didn't mention "program", in Costa Rica. I personally love this country and travel there. He was to learn the culture, learn Spanish as a second language (not first), be involved in a great music program, be aggressive in his education, go surfing, golf, etc.
What many of you may not know is the fact that they handle parents like myself differently. I spoke with my son almost weekly. He "worked" in his family reps office and I called and was able to talk with him. Sure he used to say things like "this place isn't what you think it is", but at the time we thought that he was just wanting to come home. Natural for a 16 year old. To much work in a boarding school, alot easier at home. The staff were trained how to handle us. "Your child is doing great, just homesick, natural, will say things to get home". [quote/]
Martha,
Didn't you visit the school on numerous occasions? Had dinner with Joe and Amberly more than once?
I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there. Being one of the orignal 10 students, I have seen the facility grow from a delapitated old dude ranch to a high security prison in the center of the jungle. The program was non-existant for the most part at that time. As more and more kids came in, rules came in place, staff members were brought in. In the first three months, we built the "school" as the program was placed around us. As time went on, the facility was converted to a full fledged WWWASP community. So please do not dictate to us our situation and the situation I was in. You were not there, so therfor have absolutly no FIRST HAND knowledge of this place and the events that occured there. For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about.
Corey, your affidavit only talks about the facilities and the inconsistancies in the program, not about abuse.
How could your parents not know what was going on at Dundee? Your mom went to Costa Rica on several occasions. She even took you out of the school when she came to visit.
-
"How could your parents not know what was going on at Dundee? Your mom went to Costa Rica on several occasions. She even took you out of the school when she came to visit."
I think that this is how this thread started. This parent was treated like her son was in a boarding school. WWASPS probably didn't want to lose the tuition. Sounds like this quote came from an employee at Dundee. Why would you treat this parent different and let them take him out of school on a visit?
-
I agree, sounds like WWASPS employees moniter this forum. Who else would know this info?