Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 14, 2004, 11:25:00 AM
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I have been reading posts on here for quite some time. I worked at CEDU recently and went through the entire emotional growth process. The propheets although a little odd at times were not abusive and I will not have to devote many years of my life to recovery from abuse in them. (There are a lot of experiences in them that need to be changed and that is happening)I believe that some people on here exaggerate their experience for shock value. Most of the people that I know that work there are there for the right reasons. Because they love working with kids and devote their lives to it. I will admit that some of them were trained under Mel's philosophy and are having a hard time admitting that there might be a different better way, but the schools are going through major reform right now to come in line with modern methodologies.
I also know that some of the people who post on here regularly crossed ethical lines when they left CEDU and attempt to convince people here that they know what they are talking about. I also know that there are therapists that post on here who claim they know what happens in the propheets but are only going off of heresay as I know that they did not go through the propheets.
If you are devoting years of your life to recovering from so-called "abuse" then maybe you went to work for CEDU for the wrong reasons. I did not work for CEDU to learn something about myself, I went to work to help kids and because I maintained this focus the experience was different for me. There were defintley philosophies in use that were far outdated so I worked to set an example and let people know that there is a different way that works and had success in this endeavor.
It just bothers me to see alot of the negativity that is rampant on this website and people ignore a lot of the positive things that happen there. There are some quality people who work there and continue to work there to help kids and they deserve "kudos" for that. I know there are people who visit this site that have some positve things to say and I encourage you to do so.
I am sure there are peope here who will have a heyday with this post. You can find something wrong with any place that you work, and you can also find a lot of good if you so choose. More people on here should question the intent of people who see only evil and wrongdoing.
Out
JT
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On 2004-05-14 08:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
I believe that some people on here exaggerate their experience for shock value.
JT
On the other hand, you know how rape victims almost always remember their attackers as having been much larger, stronger and more frightening looking than they turn out to be? Maybe people who exagerate their experience are not even doing it intentionally to begin with, let alone doing it for the purpose you suppose. Or maybe they're not the ones w/ the more distorted view at all. Ever consider that? What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult.
-- Sigmund Freud
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If they truly feel they have been raped(by CEDU) there are much better avenues to deal with their emotions than the way it is handled on here. I would not consider this site a teraputic forum.
Let it all come and go as it will. Enjoy it all, but never make your happiness or success dependent on an attachment to any thing, any place, and particularly, any person.
~ Wayne Dyer - 10 Secrets for Success and Inner Peace ~
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On 2004-05-14 09:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If they truly feel they have been raped(by CEDU) there are much better avenues to deal with their emotions than the way it is handled on here.
No, that's not what I was suggesting. Just that the psychological effect is very much the same. The term "mind rape" or "mind fuck" resonates w/ a lot of program vets, regardless of the housing structure or corporate banner under which we experienced the Program.
I would not consider this site a teraputic forum.
Me either. This is more of an ongoing, impromptu exposé. At least that was my intention.
The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
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Hi! as the resident asshole on this board I feel the need to weigh in on this subject. Anti-gen is right. Of course there is a lot of negativity on this site, that's sort of what it is supposed to be. The point is to educate all people into the mind fucking that occurs at cedu, not see new kids enroll there. Either you are a CEDUized person, or just plain stupid, and no this site is not therapy, by any means, but it is a place to vent and share stories. Because all program vets will agree that it is impossible to tell the story properly, since the whole thing was a sham, lies built upon lies, deceit and treachery, and all that stuff.
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Thanks for making my point. For the record not all program vets agree. This is also more than just a place to vent and share stories if the goal is to "not see kids enroll". If parents want to send their kids there great, if you want to make it your mission to stop them more power to ya. If you allowed yourself to be "mind fucked" then your bad. I think I'll claim stupidity after all-
"Stupid is as stupid does."
Forest Gump
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I am one of the staff who began the process of making necessary changes in the program, specifically the profeets. I was "crucified." I am very happy that there are changes taking place since the methods that were practiced at CEDU for many, many years were criminal. And I believe you come from knowing because it is the "old staff" who do resist these changes. They structured their life around the morphed philosophies of CEDU's founder. Humiliating and screaming at kids to get control is what they know. They won't change easily, especially since they have no other skills when it comes to working with kids.
However, knowing that CEDU is in this transformation from harmful to helpful (if that be the case), how can they justify the cost to parents? How can they justify their policies which restrict kids from communicating with their families? Do you as a parent want to send your child to a program with this track record?
As far as the "emotional" posts on this thread, there is a reason for the feelings. The feelings may very well be exagerated, but I guarentee you that the stories are true! I worked there for many years, and I have seen evidence of every abuse listed here, and more. If you have as much passion about your love of CEDU as we do for our hate of CEDU, please feel free to express them.
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new around here - but I've been thinking.
it's obvious that some of the practices of cedu are abusive, we all experienced that and if you dont see it then you're just some kinda blind. on the other hand, it does help *some* people. I remember after ascent i was f*cked up. they should NEVER have sent me there, it broke me, i couldnt talk for like 8 months without breaking down- felt like some kinda vaccuum had just been weilded on me and took away everything- it was not healthy and it was not theraputic and it was "mind rape" and it was totally wrong, every second of it, especially conciously watching staff that i knew didnt agree with what was happening stand by and watch seemingly helpless. on the other hand, i know some kids who went to ascent and stopped doing stupid sh*t, had a sense of courage when they came back and it actually helped them. anyhow, i was talking to theresa one day and she said yeah, they screwed up on you,- apparently there is a screening process because some kids are not the right emotional type for the place, and (this is the worst part) some kids slip through the cracks: some kids should not have been there, even by their standards. its like the death penalty or something "whoops, you were innocent" and nobody even gets a sorry.
i think cedu might be like that, and parts of it better for everyone and parts of it not good for anyone except a dangerous few. Because i know people that it helped, and they arnt pro-cedu brainwashees, they just kids livin. anyhow, i guess some parts of northwest helped me and i did learn some stuff that i didnt learn growing up in my psycho family about how to love and stuff and some parts i despise with all my heart, they make me feel sick to know that people like that have any form of power over any kids who might be screwed up anyway and these idiots are let loose on this twisted sadomasochistic power trip against people who maybe they are scared or or maybe they have some internal resentment or some sh*t but thats not fair and it should not be happening, not to anybody.
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Well how CEDU is that?? Do I detect a "it's not them it's you theme here"?? Weird.
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no, because they are wholly responsible for the screening process, and instead of working towards meeting the needs of everybody they have this thought that everybody needs this specific process and can be forced to fit it with enough pressure. also, theres a conflict of interests between taking the careful time to decide what would be right for each individual kid and the bank they make off every kids parents. plus if someone said, no this place isnt right for so and so- that would be admitting that the processes isnt almighty and universal which would shatter some ideals, and i think that this desperate clinging to the ideal instead of the actual is whats wrong with the place and what leads to the narrowminded refusal that anything is wrong, which in turn permitts abuse.
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oops i forgot to login before i posted that last one.
cody
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"If you allowed yourself to be "mind fucked" then your bad. "
Way to deflect blame onto the victim, asshole. That's the same manipulative garbage that staff would pull all the time. That's like telling someone who got beaten up by 3 thugs that it's his fault because he wasn't strong enough to ward them off.
Why don't you go home and bow down to your Wasserman statue, prick.
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[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2004-08-01 22:45 ]
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Well, I feel like I just walked out of a rated 'R' Movie. I think a lot of what is being said on this thread can be said in plain and simple English. Come on people.
I believe what the prior therapist revealed about CEDU. This isn't the first time I have heard negativity about CEDU.
I am concerned about the boy who ran away from a CEDU School. If this boy was escorted (kidnapped) and take to this school, the last person he will contact is his parents. All trust was lost if he was taken by "force." I understand other children have run away from this school. My question is, "What are they running from?"
I would like to hear from the children who suffered abuse and were never vindicated for what happened to them in the name of help and therapy. I know these children still suffer. Pain upon pain is never gain.
Well, I have a lot I could say, but must go to an appointment.
Mother of Michelle Sutton who died while self enrolled in the now defunct Summit Quest Program, Utah. Cause of her preventable death was dehydration due to exposure to the elements. Stupid People was all I could say! How could they treat my child this way?
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
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What you are saying is so sinister and worng. If you think its right to allow children to talk to there parent's once a week,have non liscened therapist's and these so caled "propheets" then. Kahil Gabran's teahcing's were never to be cruel to other human beings. I was astudent so i know first hand what it was like and you are speaking out of pure ignorance! You are the one who gets to go home after work into your nice bed when all the student's have to get up early the next moring just to do chores! People like you make me sick! :skull:
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could not have said it better. Remember that some of these kids were very young, I know I was. I have talked to a kid that got sent there when she was 12, and she cannot remember her experience because she was so young. Wish I was so lucky
On 2004-05-15 16:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
""If you allowed yourself to be "mind fucked" then your bad. "
Way to deflect blame onto the victim, asshole. That's the same manipulative garbage that staff would pull all the time. That's like telling someone who got beaten up by 3 thugs that it's his fault because he wasn't strong enough to ward them off.
Why don't you go home and bow down to your Wasserman statue, prick. "
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[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2004-08-01 22:46 ]
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I am so sorry for your loss. I wish that it would not ever have to come to something like that. I was not escorted, but I knew so many kids that were. Just runninig away from the pain and b.s. that goes on I guess, or in my case just a kid looking for a good time. Hell to pay when I got back, but it wasn't too bad, I was still a new kid then. Maybe it is just me, but the only closure I ever want is to see the monsters who perpetuate this darkness to pay. Preferably the same metal anguish that we went through, but whatever works, I just don't want their dirty money, since all a lawsuit does is cut down on faculty hours and increases the price of entrance to hell.
On 2004-05-16 16:42:00, cmpsfty wrote:
"Well, I feel like I just walked out of a rated 'R' Movie. I think a lot of what is being said on this thread can be said in plain and simple English. Come on people.
I believe what the prior therapist revealed about CEDU. This isn't the first time I have heard negativity about CEDU.
I am concerned about the boy who ran away from a CEDU School. If this boy was escorted (kidnapped) and take to this school, the last person he will contact is his parents. All trust was lost if he was taken by "force." I understand other children have run away from this school. My question is, "What are they running from?"
I would like to hear from the children who suffered abuse and were never vindicated for what happened to them in the name of help and therapy. I know these children still suffer. Pain upon pain is never gain.
Well, I have a lot I could say, but must go to an appointment.
Mother of Michelle Sutton who died while self enrolled in the now defunct Summit Quest Program, Utah. Cause of her preventable death was dehydration due to exposure to the elements. Stupid People was all I could say! How could they treat my child this way?
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
"
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another righteous post. My feelings exactly. Although I didn't give a damn about having to get up to do chores, that was no thing, but having to hear from people, that "I know how you feel, I am fighting for you" and then they would go home to their friends and family. God that chapped my ass every time. For most of us we were all we had, and for some poor souls, we were family because they had no family back home. Those kids were heartbreakers, the ones who actually found a measure of safety and family inside the walls. I miss them every day and even though I am far from religious, I pray for them, and hope that their days are filled with sunshine. Ha, talk to parents once a week...... monitored phone calls.... half the time my fucking family was not home (and of course no make up phone call), and they wonder why I never call them now. :flame: gee...
On 2004-05-16 19:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What you are saying is so sinister and worng. If you think its right to allow children to talk to there parent's once a week,have non liscened therapist's and these so caled "propheets" then. Kahil Gabran's teahcing's were never to be cruel to other human beings. I was astudent so i know first hand what it was like and you are speaking out of pure ignorance! You are the one who gets to go home after work into your nice bed when all the student's have to get up early the next moring just to do chores! People like you make me sick! :skull: "
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[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-11 00:26 ]
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I love it when the survivors of an abusive program, camp or school speak up about the abuse they encountered in the name of "help and therapy." Keep on talking. TRUTH heals!!
After my daughter died, two more children died in the same state (Utah), within a four year period of time. I attended both trials. I interviewed some of the kids who were called to testify of the abuses inflicted upon them. During the negligent homicide trial of one of the kids, I talked with two boys who had been abused in the same program. They both opened their shirts and showed me their scars from being thrown around and landing on rocks. These boys were put on the stand and I watched as the defense attorneys used their past to discredit their testimonies.
I can certainly understand the anger of the kids who were in an abusive program, camp or school and nothing was ever said or done to vindicate them. But I know that TRUTH does heal. I prayed for the TRUTH about what happened to my daughter and I was given more TRUTH than I needed. We did sue, but that wasn't enough. I wanted to see the industry that allowed my child to die a torturous, preventable death, become what they SOLD to our family, and our daughter, or get out of the business of abusing children in the name of MONEY!
I didn't know of the "window of loss" that exists in this industry that says of each child who dies, "We lost ONE, but we are saving many." I also didn't know of the "fatal mind-set" that looks upon our so-called out of control troubled teens as fakers, whiners and manipulators. I think this industry is more out of control and troubled than our youth.
I want you to know, there are people out here who are fighting for laws to protect kids from the same such experience as you encountered.
The Mission and Goal of the Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. is to improve the quality of care in this lucrative industry, while seeing to it that a level of expectation is in place and enforced. Prosecute the perpetrator. Fine the entity for the act of those who abused the child.
I hope to see the SURVIVORS of Wilderness Therapy/Behavior Modification Schools have a Forum of their own.
I think you would be a great moderator.
Keep on talking :smile:
What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson
_________________
MSMEMFUND
"Campsafety is Everyone's Business"[ This Message was edited by: cmpsfty on 2004-05-17 00:01 ]
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Gees there are some people on here who need to move on.
"I tell you the past is a bucket of ashes, so live not in your yesterdays, not just for tomorrow, but in the here and now. Keep moving and forget the post mortems; and remember, no one can get the jump on the future." (Carl Sandburg)
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Who's living in the past. The neglect, abuse, degradation, starvation, molestation and manslaughter of children all over the country and out of the country is still alive and kicking us in the butts. It's only the past when something is done to right this terrible wrong.
If you think yourself too wise to involve
yourself in government, you will be governed
by those too foolish to govern.
--Plato
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"I hope that most of what you were talking about involves the ex-therapists.... If you are talking to the kids, then you can kiss my ass."
I think you can obviously tell that my post is directed at ex-staff members who come on here and spew some of the venom that they spew and expect people to take them as being credible.
As for you, maybe its time to move on with your life and quit letting the past control you so much. Why were you sent to CEDU in the first place by the way? It is pretty obvious there is a lot of hatred there directed at any opportunity that might present itself.
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We need to make a distinction here - the therapists were NOT CEDU employees. They were not staff. Therapists were people who went to the campuses to see kids and be helpful. The best ones left pretty quickly. That sucked. They were a corner of sanity...
On 2004-05-17 13:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
" "I hope that most of what you were talking about involves the ex-therapists.... If you are talking to the kids, then you can kiss my ass."
I think you can obviously tell that my post is directed at ex-staff members who come on here and spew some of the venom that they spew and expect people to take them as being credible.
As for you, maybe its time to move on with your life and quit letting the past control you so much. Why were you sent to CEDU in the first place by the way? It is pretty obvious there is a lot of hatred there directed at any opportunity that might present itself. "
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The Therapists are CEDU employees now and have been for the last several years. Cedu hasn't don the consultation in several years. Each campus has a group of terapists.
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Wow. I had no idea. Thanks for the info. When I was there, they were separate.
On 2004-05-17 15:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Therapists are CEDU employees now and have been for the last several years. Cedu hasn't don the consultation in several years. Each campus has a group of terapists."
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i'm on this board almost 10 years after being at Ascent for 6 weeks. it was a total mind-fuck. why else would we be seeking this out after all this time? because it was the worst place in the world. i have a great life now, "even though" my parents only made me go to Ascent, and i still have nightmares about the shit that went on there. i have nightmares that i am a teenager again and my parents send me back. i am 25 years old now, and that place still plagues my mind.
Cody-when were you at Ascent? if that is really one of your names, then i think you were in my course group. just curious.....
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I must have missed this post. Thank you so much for telling the truth about CEDU and how therapists are treated. We must have been at the same school. I was blown out of BCA because I told the truth at parent conferences, took the side of kids, and chastized staff for diagnoses.
There is some interestimg research on diagnoses.
Severl studies found no relationship between diagnoses and therapeutic results - even if done by professionals.
The fact is, DSM has no value whatsoever except to justify billing to insurance.
What is effective are the elements common to all good therapy - a motovated client with resources to change, a good and powerful relationship with the client/family, and expection that therapy willl work.
What elements are present at CEDU - Just "client factors." Conclusion, The kid changes in spite of the program. He or she grows uo over 1 to 2 years in spite of the program.
Finally these programs are damaging and you tend to see relapse after a few months. Kids leaving program have low social skills - yelling etc. learnerd from staff, flashbacks, panic attacks and PTSD all hiding under a facade, a false self, implanted by the program - in this case - CEDU.
Search Institute for the Study of Therapeutic Change (ISTC). Search in site for "Stale Baloney" and find "What works with Teens". For a complete summary of the research over the last 40 years on therapy outcome see "Escape From Babel." (Miller, Duncan and Hubble, 1997).
Thanks for your exact testamony. I was there and I saw it all. This Therapist is telling the exact and precise truth.
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Who are all these anonymous staff posting? As far as I am concerned there were three staff that genuinely cared about the kids at BCA.
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[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-11 00:27 ]
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On 2004-05-15 18:57:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:
"JT, I was a therapist at CEDU and I was PRESSURED about participating in a Profeet. They pressured me many, many times. I refused because I knew that the Profeets themselves were unethical and that as a therapist, it would be unethical for me to reveal personal information. Also, frankly, I don't have any big, horrible "dirt" in my past. Kids told me that they were accused of holding out and lying if they didn't reveal horrible histories, so they would lie in the Profeets just to get people off their backs. Then they were psychologically rewarded for LYING about their pasts, making up "dirt!" I find this despicable.
As for CEDU not allowing therapists to participate, this is pure and utter rubbish. Perhaps that?s how it is NOW, but when I was there, about 5 or 6 years ago, they really put the pressure on me to take part. The campus had had therapists for many years ? we were not new. Some therapists did participate; I did not. Your claim that therapists don?t know what is going on in the Profeets is DEAD WRONG. They really gave me a hard time for not doing it, and I knew several therapists who did go through them. They all regretted it.
Also, CEDU has a culture of administrative staff ?earning? their degrees from unaccredited, mail-order ?colleges.? This is very common there. California Coast College is the school of choice.
I consistently saw the most abusive and ignorant staff promoted. Without fail.
I saw kids who were actively psychotic kept there, despite my many warnings to CEDU that these kids were inappropriate. One kid was actively homicidal toward his cabin mates. I made all kinds of reports; the school pointedly ignored me. Finally, he was pulled by his parents.
I saw kids with eating disorders grossly mishandled. I saw a kid with Asperger?s Syndrome ?diagnosed? by a truly ignorant team leader as bulimic. I told the team leader that they absolutely had to stop escorting this kid to the bathroom; it was torture to her. There was NO history of bulimia and the parents were shocked to hear about this ?diagnosis? from the TL. When I told the TL the true diagnosis, that idiot said, ?don?t tell me she?s not bulimic; I can see it in her eyes. She has that same empty look I had when I was bulimic.? She wouldn?t have passed Psychology 101. She had no education and was a team leader ? in control. I had a Ph.D. You figure it out. That kid went through hell. Now that team leader has one of those California Coast College degrees. Whoopee.
I saw all manner of psychological mistreatment and blatant ignorance on the part of staff. CEDU bragged to parents that they had therapists there and that the floor staff and administration always followed our lead. This was a lie. Not only did they ignore us if we told them what they did not want to hear, they ridiculed us and told us we were being ?manipulated.? That is a big word at CEDU, because the staff didn?t have enough education to know any other words to describe behaviors.
I have many recollections of psychological mistreatment and saw a lot of kids emotionally wounded. Staff members who liked me told me that their team leaders instructed them to ignore the therapists and laughed at us behind our backs. I have clear recall of the ridicule some staff, including team leaders, inflicted on kids. I remember pointed and ugly sarcasm and a general smart-ass attitude. Such behaviors, aimed at a person who is angry at you, only inflames that person further, and is not a good teaching tool.
I was fully aware of hypocrisy of some staff, including team leaders. I learned from other sources how some staff were using illegal substances and picking up dates at bars, taking them home. I observed that the most successful staff within the corporation were more likely to be diagnosable with Borderline Personality Disorder and/or serious power and control issues. I witnessed staff enjoying having power over angry kids. I was unable to stay there because of these things.
I understand why parents send their kids there. They are desperate for answers, for help, and they don?t know where to turn. Some of them have lost control, and their kids are getting into dangerous behaviors ? behaviors that might kill them. However, there are better places... places that are truly therapeutic. My issue with CEDU is that most of the kids I saw were not heavily into drugs or in street gangs. They had educational or emotional problems, and CEDU was destructive to them.
Sure, some staff, perhaps most, went there because they loved kids and wanted to help. That?s why I went there. However, most people don?t know diddly squat about what is truly therapeutic for kids and those staff didn?t know enough to realize that what they were doing was wrong. I knew many staff like this ? I would tell them that some treatment was wrong, and they looked so relieved ? and horrified. They told me that they felt terrible, but thought they had to say/do those things to help the kids. Of course, then they were in a real quandry. They still had to put food on the table.
You are defending CEDU now. It is possible that you may see things differently as time passes. Or, perhaps, things are much better now than when I was there. I doubt it, though. I suspect that you are blinded by recency of your employment, or are so unenlightened and uneducated, that you truly are unaware of how abusive the tactics are. You may be one of the types of persons whom I had the most trouble with. However, you do state that you were making efforts to change things. I certainly hope this is so. My experience was bad ? here I am several years later, having found this post, having looked up CEDU on a whim. I was amazed how many negative feelings I had came back to me. I wonder about the kids, about how they are doing. I hope they are okay. Frankly, most improvement in a place such as CEDU is probably due to plain old maturity that time brings. That and the shock of knowing that your parents can actually have you picked up and taken from your life at home. And some kids certainly need to leave their neighborhood ? kids into gangs and drugs. Sometimes I tell parents to relocate because of this, as a part of addressing problems.
Of course, it is unhealthy to dwell on past wrongs and hurts. And I am concerned about some of these kids posting who seem so deeply wounded or angry. I am concerned, and I truly have no concept of how difficult it was for some of them. And I ABSOLUTELY KNOW that CEDU pointedly and purposefully ignored us, even thought we had LEGITIMATE degrees and YEARS of training. What does that tell us about CEDU?
In fact, I testified in a lawsuit against CEDU and stated that they ignored my warnings ? thank god I documented well. I had documented every warning I issued to them. The whole thing cost them money, but I?m sure they?ve swept all that under the rug. Can?t let people know about it ? bad for business. Funny thing is, things didn?t change even after that? even after they got into trouble for ignoring REAL professionals. Everything in the philosophy and ?treatment? of the kids stayed the same.
I need to stop typing. I?m feeling angry and I just don?t want to feel this way. It just pisses me off that kids got hurt right under my nose and I was railroaded time and again. Railroaded by ignorant and uneducated people who broadcast to parents that they worked hand-in-hand with us and always took our directives. Bullshit.
On 2004-05-14 08:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have been reading posts on here for quite some time. I worked at CEDU recently and went through the entire emotional growth process. The propheets although a little odd at times were not abusive and I will not have to devote many years of my life to recovery from abuse in them. (There are a lot of experiences in them that need to be changed and that is happening)I believe that some people on here exaggerate their experience for shock value. Most of the people that I know that work there are there for the right reasons. Because they love working with kids and devote their lives to it. I will admit that some of them were trained under Mel's philosophy and are having a hard time admitting that there might be a different better way, but the schools are going through major reform right now to come in line with modern methodologies.
I also know that some of the people who post on here regularly crossed ethical lines when they left CEDU and attempt to convince people here that they know what they are talking about. I also know that there are therapists that post on here who claim they know what happens in the propheets but are only going off of heresay as I know that they did not go through the propheets.
If you are devoting years of your life to recovering from so-called "abuse" then maybe you went to work for CEDU for the wrong reasons. I did not work for CEDU to learn something about myself, I went to work to help kids and because I maintained this focus the experience was different for me. There were defintley philosophies in use that were far outdated so I worked to set an example and let people know that there is a different way that works and had success in this endeavor.
It just bothers me to see alot of the negativity that is rampant on this website and people ignore a lot of the positive things that happen there. There are some quality people who work there and continue to work there to help kids and they deserve "kudos" for that. I know there are people who visit this site that have some positve things to say and I encourage you to do so.
I am sure there are peope here who will have a heyday with this post. You can find something wrong with any place that you work, and you can also find a lot of good if you so choose. More people on here should question the intent of people who see only evil and wrongdoing.
Out
JT
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[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2004-05-15 19:18 ][ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2004-05-15 19:30 ]"
first off, i don't see the propheets themselves as being "unethical"; i thought a lot of the shit they did was a little bit silly, overdone, and ineffective due to the fact that they were so standardized and dated, but there were helpful elements and concepts behind them. i do, however, believe that the way they failed to acknowledge us as individuals was a bit unethical. again, as i've said a million times on this message board today, i believe that these facilitators are caught up in the ways that they've been taught, and refuse to be creative in order to come up with more efficient methods of helping (they probably treat/treated us in a sheepish manner because that is the manner in which they are accustomed to act.) a lot of them are not genuinely driven enough to accomplish their "goal" (in other werds, a lot of them aren't all that concerned about being helpful; they had some sort of ulterior motive or were just going through the motions aimlessly.. which i really don't believe they would do... that's a stressful environment to just follow behind. they must've gotten something from it or else they would've stopped. power, perhaps.) to change their methods... if they were, they'd be trying new tactics everyday until they got the desired results. also, i'm a firm believer that each individual deserves a different approach. we all have different psychologies, and thus, using the same standard method to try to change us all will not be effective; maybe 40% will be helped by this standardized approach, and the rest of us need something more original. so, in the context of propheets, i'm not sure that they shouldn't exist, however, i do believe that the facilitators need to be more sensitive to the particular needs of each individual and act accordingly... you can't talk to everyone the same way and expect a good result... i have no idea why they didn't realize sooner that their yelling at me just put my guard up; i have always had issues with authority, i like to live my life by my own rules and morals. rather than trying to help me create a positive lifestyle for msyelf, the staff were generally focused on yelling at me for being defiant and breaking their rules. they never thought to question why i had this authoritative issue, nor did they figure out how to break through my barrior. at this point, i could tell them how they could've done this... it wouldn't have been that difficult; all it would've required was an open/receptive and creative mind.
i agree with you about making up your past; i was one of those students who made up lies because the counselors were not satisfied with the disclosures i'd told them. before cedu, i'd never touched drugs, never kissed a boy (or a girl), i was just very depressed, which resulted in an eating disorder and serious issues with my parents (which were not resolved at cedu, or as a result of cedu methods, by any means. in fact, they were amplified by the neglect factor of having been sent there because my parents didn't want to take care of me anymore. i'd been hospitalized twice before.) however, while i was at cedu, i 'became' an alcoholic and a bi-sexual slut. it wasn't until after cedu that i actually did any of these things that i claimed to have done at cedu. i started doing lots of drugs, having sex with whoever gave me the time of day, etc.
about the bulemia thing, you must be talking about brandi... she tended to do that kinda stuff. she'd call girls sluts and bulemics just because that was her history. i had a friend that had previously had sex with one guy. in a rap, brandi called her out on having her legs spread wide open to the werld to make herself feel loved or some shit like that. it was the most inaccurate, projectile statement i'd ever heard. sure, this girl has a problem with looking for love from other people as a result of her abandonment by her biological parents, but she was far from a slut and brandi calling her one was absolutely ridiculous.
about the manipulation... honestly... i get so werked up about this. EVERYTHING WE DO IS MANIPULATIVE. we act to get results. if we don't realize that we are being manipulative by acting in certain ways, then chances are, we're not acting to get optimal results, we're just doing what we think we're supposed to do. i believe that if one claims not to be manipulative, they are either continuing to be manipulative, or they are in serious denial. and as i've said, if you're in denial of the manipuative nature of communication, chances are, you're not getting the results you want; if you are getting what you want, well, consider yourself lucky that your conscious mind allows itself to be overpowered by your subconscious without you being aware of it. god, cedu runs on manipulation... i hate the fact that they claim that manipulation is a bad thing; it's very... well, manipulative (but in an unethical, dishonest manner.) :smile:
wow, that was long, and i'm going to stop now... i could go on for pages.
my name is laura solomon, i went to cedu hs/ms between 1996-1999. were you at the cali skools? it's likely that i was one of your patients if you were, i went through nearly every therapist that stepped on that campus.
i'd love to pursue further communication between you and i... my email is [email protected]
please hit me up, if you're at all inclined to.
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by the way, i must add...
staff members like randolph and dennis were the best that cedu had to offer... these men were truly ethical and understood how to approach me better than any other staff member.
janine and i also had a pretty good relationship, but she didn't really keep me, as an individual, in mind at all times, and consequently, i was, at times, not completely open with her as i was with randolph and dennis, whom i felt saw me as the individual i am, with my own unique psychology.
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oy... that last comment was from me, laura.
i really need to register on here, huh?
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by th eway,
hell on wheels,
i did do the program, and maybe you'll be able to hear it a bit better from me... (i hated virtually every second of my 3 year stay at cedu.) it's been a part of your life; if you like where you are now, appreciate your past for what it is... it's the stimulus that's gotten you to the point you're at now.
you don't have to like how you were treated at cedu. i was very upset about that for a long time. if you're truly that disturbed, do something to make a change. i had considered going back to werk at cedu in order to try to revolutionize the system. i had SUCH a deep hatred for virtually every element of that program that i thought i'd never want to step back on that campus again. i just wanted to sue the skool and have it shut down. at this point, i've come to realize that these places are going to be in existance whether i liek it or not. and consequently, there will be children going through what i went through whether i have anythign to do with it or not. thus, i wanted to step in and bring what i had to offer in order to make it a bit more constructive. i want to help these kids realize what cedu (in theory) is all about... finding yourself and optimizing your life. it's not about bans and full-times. it's not about pop-offs and back-kitchen clean up (i was on at least 20 restrictions... i spent prolly half of my h.s. evenings in back kitchen. i was salty, but my deviant friends and i had much fun back there... actually, that was where we did a lot of the out of agreement things we did, i.e. breaking into the office to use the phone, or the walk-in for coke and candy.. perhaps taking a smoke break as we walked the trash down to the dumpster.) anyway, my point is that there are things that are more essential to the cedu program than what the staff will allow you to believe through their methods of discipline. i genuinely want to help these kids; i want to prevent them from hating cedu in the way that you do, and i did, and have them realize what's true about them... to help them do some soul searching and set themselves on the right path to get where they ideally want to go.
life is what you make it... for you, cedu might be over. just let it go. if you still have a burning fire inside, rather than spu it out casually on a message board, use it as fuel to drive you to the results you fantasize about.
if you'd like to talk about cedu or anything else, feel free to hit me up as well... my offer is extended to anyone. my contact info is listed above in one of my million posts on this page. haha.
-laura
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On 2004-05-14 09:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If they truly feel they have been raped(by CEDU) there are much better avenues to deal with their emotions than the way it is handled on here. I would not consider this site a teraputic forum.
Let it all come and go as it will. Enjoy it all, but never make your happiness or success dependent on an attachment to any thing, any place, and particularly, any person.
~ Wayne Dyer - 10 Secrets for Success and Inner Peace ~ "
what cum and go like the staff members to those poor kids. sick fucks i hope you burn
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so changes are happening. I'm sorry folks had to endure what I've heared to be abuseive treatment. I'm sure it was. Things have changed.
Academics come before program most of the time.
kids are put on the phone to parents as needed, and allowed to share real feelings, includeing feeling sad, homesick or that they plain hate it and want to come home.
I see some of you refer to "profeet" (example of change is that it isn't even called a profeet any more)tools or ideas, what happened to being your own person? You claim such hate for a place. Do places have such power as to run you? Who's life is it? Stop giveing your power away. Use it to give your self a good life. All these people you are spending time bieng mad at probably don't even remember you.
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staff who really cared?
who?
folks have named names of who they hate. :???: