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Messages - TC_Saved_Me

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Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: November 27, 2012, 02:22:43 PM »
xnsion wrote :
> TC, you are a pretentious asshole.

Believe me, God is still humbling me.  Luckily He's not finished with me yet.  But, yeah, you're absolutely right.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: March 09, 2012, 09:33:04 AM »
I had to have the last word because I'm a arrogant butthole.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: March 08, 2012, 11:23:00 AM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
You offered up nothing useful here. You're just trying to do damage control for teen challenge. You say that they helped you, but you don't seem to care that they've killed others. I guess to you that's a fair trade off. I don't care about your religious beliefs I do however care about your attitude towards survivors and their families. Just because you have a plastic fish,and a WWJD? sticker on your car doesn't make you a good person. I'll bet you're the type who goes out to eat and leaves religious tracts on the table instead of a tip. Keep drinking the kool aid from your holy grail!

I would NEVER put a Jesus sticker on my car!  Then, as soon as I'd cut off someone like you, you'd claim that it was a personal reflection on Christianity, and try to claim that Jesus is not the Messiah because some puttz Christian like me isn't perfect...

I want everyone to read None-ya's response to me in this poor women's post.  You'll see that I offered her my condolences followed by a prayer, and charged her to continue to challenge Teen Challenge (even though I support the program), and None-ya saw that as an opportunity to express his personal vendetta against me and a program that he knows nothing about.

None-ya, you should exercise more wisdom and foresight than to use this women's tribute to her son as your personal sounding board!  You've lowered yourself to the level of the Westboro Baptist Church protesting a military funeral!

This should be a little telling of how influencial none-ya's opinion should be:


Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: January 04, 2012, 10:47:57 AM »
I came here to present a different view of Teen Challenge that I didn't feel was being properly represented.  90% of the centers are for adults (ages 18 and over).  It is that majority that I wanted to offer some insight on.

It was fun how the conversation evolved into a theological discussion, and I always welcome freindly debate about religion.

I'll continue to poke my head in every now and again to see if anyone has any questions about the four Teen Challenge centers that I have first-hand experience with (Philadelphia, San Diego, Riverside, and Pittsburgh).

I'm certainly open for mature discussion about just about anything else as well.  I'll no longer respond to irrelevant castigations though.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: January 03, 2012, 11:02:49 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
BULL, The carrot on the end of the christian stick is heaven.
 And by the way I can't believe we had to shame you into responding to that woman who lost her son. It doesnt even sound like you read her story.

You must have some serious gall to use that thread as an outlet for your bitterness!  That woman lost her son man!  

That thread is a fond tribute to that woman's son, and I think it was extremely distasteful for you to choose that thread to try to somehow challenge my beliefs.  

If you have a problem with me, fine!  If you have a problem with the rehab that God used to deliver me from an addiction that would have otherwise killed me, FINE!  Take it up with me!  

And if you think you can bate me into being a bad representation of Christ or Christianity, I have news for you... You probably can!  I've been a Christian for six years, and have a lot of growing up to do!  I'll be the first to admit that.  If you think I'm going to drop to your level of cynicalness, and pick a verbal fight on a thread that is honoring that woman's son, you do not know me very well.

Regarding your above comment, I'll have the last word!  You can rot away in your white washed tomb all you want.  I choose to stand before the presence of a Holy and Awesome God when I die!

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for My name's sake, for great is their reward in heaven." - Jesus Christ

Teen Challenge / Re: Young man died shortly after being kicked out of TC
« on: January 03, 2012, 09:31:15 AM »
Good day Ma'am,

I want to commend you for your courage and your love for your son.  I am very sorry for your loss.

Isaiah 57: 1-2 says, “The righteous perisheth and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness.“

It seems like, as a result of his mother's faith, Nick received his salvation in Christ.  Because of that, I'm sure that Nick is in a beautiful place now.  It is a very honorable thing to continue to challenge the Jacksonville Teen Challenge, and I charge you to continue doing that, to ensure that your family's loss is not in vein.  

There are alot of people in positions to be a blessing or a curse to young people.  I want to urge you to maintain your faith in God.  Though men will always let us down, we should not allow that to be a reflection of the goodness and love of God through Jesus Christ.

"The LORD is with me; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" - Psalm 118: 6

I want to offer you a prayer, and hope that you will read this prayer, and come into agreement with it:

Thank you for calling this courageous woman to challenge the Teen Challenge ministry.  Your word says that you will bring all things to the light that have been hidden in the darkness.  Please God, will you give this woman the faith and the discernment to make wise decisions, and to speak forth your word?  Please will you go before her, and bless the work that you will have her to do?  You know what goes on at Teen Challenge and at the Jacksonville center, Father.  I pray that you will uproot the people who are not bringing glory to your name, and plant Goldy men and women in these programs to lead young people to salvation with love and grace.  Please, Lord, will you make sure that Nick's earthly death was not in vein, but use this tragedy to strengthen his family, and to make right anything that is not ordained by you at Teen Challenge?
In Jesus Christ's name,

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: January 03, 2012, 09:05:32 AM »
Quote from: "Samara"
And, really, I have a greater appreciation when people "do the right thing" without the hope or promise of reward. Intrinsic value.

So does the God of the Bible!  He tells us in the old testament that He desires mercy and not sacrifice.  He says that our good deeds are as "filthy rags" in His sight.  Christianity offers no promise of reward for doing the right thing - anyone who says that should study the Bible a little harder (alot of Christians consider the "rewards by doing good deeds" theology to be a terrible fallacy).  The only promise of reward that Christianity offers is eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 05:07:01 PM »
none-ya, that is completely irrelevant to the conversation that has taken place here.  You are talking about a completely different Teen Challenge.  Furthermore, we stopped talking about Teen Challenge over a week ago in this Discussion.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 04:16:36 PM »
I would say the vagueness is appropriately summarised by the entire corpus of theology.

I believed the moment I heard that Jesus died on a cross for my sins to be forgiven.  I also believed the moment I heard that Jesus loved me.  I just never understood why.  There wasn't a single sermon, or church service that gave me reason for any more understanding of my new found faith, so I see what your saying about the vagueness of theology.

I think it's a problem too.

I was a Christian for almost two years before I had enough discussions with others and studied the Bible enough to fully understand all the nuances of why I had become a Christian.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 04:12:29 PM »
the treatment of the Bible as Divine when it was written by men. Not God.

It is treated as divine for a couple of reasons:
1) The Bible has just as much archaelogical evidence to prove that it accurately depicts historical events as any History book does.
2) There are several hundred prophecies documented in the Old Testament that were fullfilled hundreds of years later (this is probably the main reason that people consider the Bible to be inspired by God - not written by God).
3) With all the evidence of the influence of God in the Bible, it says in 2 Timothy 3 that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God."

don't see a lot of Christians acting Christ-like
What I see in short supply is a lack of generosity in spirit.

I tend to agree with you here.  We are all a product of an overall selfish society.  It often seems that there is more evil running rampant in the world, and even in the church, then there is good.  I am not much of a saint myself.  I love God, and try to obey His every command, but I often do not do what would be considered honorable in the sight of God.  I would say that if you hung around me 5 years ago, and hung around me today though, you would see alot more righteous living today versus before I began to seek God.

I believe that once we believe in the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ on the cross, we are justified - we are "considered" righteous in the sight of God.  Justification is instantaneous upon receiving it.  

After we go through immediate justification, God begins another process in us called sanctification.  Sanctification is when He begins to purge of of our impurity and unrighteousness.  

Justification is immediate - sanctification is a process.  They are both a result of faith in Christ.  Christians who are not acting Christ-like, are in a process of sactification.  Or they really aren't Christians and just call themselves Christians (but that not up for us to decide.)

Also how hard is it to live mostly ethically?
 I don't know about you, but I have an extremely difficult time doing this, but let me throw a thought at you, and see what you think:
Since I believe in God, I obviously believe in the devil as well.  The greatest gift to man kind is salvation and eternal life with God in heaven.  Naturally, God and his "Heavenly hosts" want us to receive this gift.  The devil does not.  Because I believe in Christ, and have recieved this gift of salvation, the devil is pissed, and wants to try and take it from me.  The devil is gonna throw everything he can at me to try and get me to turn my back on this gift.   On the other hand though, if someone hasn't receive this gift, the devil is cool with that person, and isn't as concerned about throwing temptations their way.

I think it might be harder for Christians to do what is right, in a way, because they have received this awesome gift from God, and the devil and his dominions are pissed about that.  The devil isn't pissed at the people who have not yet received that gift!  I know this is alot, but this is what I think.  

Whattaya think??

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 04:10:41 PM »
That's an extremely well thought out reply Samara.  I can respect that you try to live a good life.  For the sake of exercising my understanding, I will try to reply to your points here.  Plus I feel inclined to in case someone happens to stumble upon these Boards one day in the future and that person has been misinformed about what most Christians believe of the Bible.

I should start by saying that I believe most Christians believe mostly the same fundamental things about scripture, but don't know how to articulate it.  I'm working on learning how to do that myself, which is the main reason for my reply here:

Murder = Salvation?

Kind of, yes.  It goes back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve lived in what was a perfect world at the time (no sin at all).  When they bit into the fruit, their eyes were opened to the idea of right and wrong, and they noticed they were naked.  It says that they clothed themselves with fig leaves.  Remember?  (Genesis 1).

First point to understand about this:  when they committed this first sin, it would infect all of their offspring with sin as well (all of humanity).  Humanity also lost the ability to have direct contact with God as a result (a perfect God cannot have fellowship with an imperfect person).  This is why God commanded Moses to include a curtain in the temple to seperate the Most Holy Place (the place the God's presence dwelt) (Exodus 36-39).

Second point that I should point out is this:  the first thing God did after confronting Adam and Eve was replace their fig leaves with an animal skin.  The reason He did this is because their sin could only be forgiven through a sacrifice.  A living thing had to be sacrificed for their sin to be forgiven.

Many years later, and many animal sacrifices later, God decided it was time to offer a perfect sacrifice.  A sacrifice that was available to both Jews and Gentiles.  A sacrifice that could forgive all sins - past, present, or future.  Out of God's great love for humanity, He was tired of being seperated from us as well.  It says in one of the Old Testament prophecies that it please God to crush Him [Christ] and put this burden on Him (Isaiah 53: 10).  It pleased God because He knew it would reunite Him with us!  He also knew that it was necessary to kill Jesus to raise Jesus from the dead, and to heaven!

This is the best way I can explain why "Murder = Salvation" sort of.  I would say it like this though:  "God's Sacrifice = Man's Salvation"

I know I've already typed Way too much, so I'll respond to the rest in a second post.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 09:32:34 AM »
I grew up with the Bible.  When I gave up on it, my life was saved so to speak.  My personal experience with the Bible and practicing the rituals did not save me from the hell.  So to say that I should use the Bible to prove Christianity wrong, I have to say that I have no faith in it saying anything all too important.  It has a few old chestnuts that have hung around with humanity since forever (The Golden Rule, the prohibition of murder, the prohibition of rape and so forth) and a lot of fanciful wishing on the part of the writers who turn to vagueness or hyperbole, in hopes that the reader or the listener (if relying on the preacher to read it for you) will feel spirited enough to go along with the traditions of the community or the powers that be.  There is nothing to prove or disprove because the hyperbole will be explained as a parable and the vagueness will be explained by supplementary flapdoodle from previous cultural iterations (in the case of English Protestantism, Wodenist beliefs, Roman beliefs and some Celtic beliefs.)

You're making a point about vagueness, but it seems to me like you are being pretty vague about the vagueness!  What exactly do you find vague?

As far as the "practicing of rituals" goes, that is contrary to everything that Jesus came to teach.  He was steady rebuking the Pharisees for being ritualistic.  Sounds like you might relate a little bit with Martin Luther who fathered the reformation of the Roman Catholic church.  Luther was a monk, and used to walk up the stairs of the temple on his bare knees to receive forgiveness for his sins.  He felt that he had to somehow merit the favor and forgiveness of God by performing rituals and using Catholic relics.  That continued for a while until he truely understood Ephesians 2: 8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."  Once he understood that the mercy of God is unmerited through the death of Christ, it sparked him to challenge Roman Catholicism.  

This is the foundation of Protestantism, that the practicing of rituals cannot save us from hell.  Our rituals are as filthy rags in the sight of a Holy God.  None of the animal sacrifices of the Old Covenant were good enough.  That is why Christ came to offer Himself as our sacrifice.  That if we believe in Him, we will be saved.  Then we get into the whole book of James, and understand that when we truely put our faith in a perfect Jesus Christ, it leads us to start doing things a little bit differently.  Obeying certain commandments will start to come a little more naturally.  Of course, no earthly Christians is perfect, but God will see to it that through our faith in Christ, "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1: 6)

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 09:12:15 AM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
I'd like to know if your program was catholic based. That would explain a lot. They will use your sins against you for guilt. And then absolve you with confession for control.

Teen Challenge is a non-profit, non-denominational ministry.  They are affiliated with the Assemblies of God, but they welcome anyone from any background.  

I've never seen this brought up, but I would imagine that they would discourage confession of sins to a priest.  Though it does say in the Bible that we should confess our sins to one another, and find healing in that, AG doctrine presents that you can only receive forgiveness of your sins through faith in Christ, not through a priestly confession.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 09:08:03 AM »
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Romans 10:13 refers to the soul, not the body

I know lots of people who asked god to save them from addiction. He did for some, and not for others

Mostly, I think it is speaking of salvation - you're right - but I don't think we should put God "in a box."  He can save us from more than hellfire if we are willing to meet Him halfway.  It says in the Bible that he counts our tears, and has the very hairs of our head numbered.  He knows us and cares about us that much.  In my personal experience, I lost everything I had from a crack addiction - my wife, my job, my car (Everything!)...  I tried several times to quit, and was arrested a couple of times because of my problem.  I remember laying in bed, balling my eyes out, begging God (I never even went to church before this).  I was literally gasping for air I was crying so hard, and begging Him to help me get sober.  Did I wake up the next day without any cravings?  No.  I was actually arrested the next day, and ended up in Teen Challenge.  That's where He took my cravings from me.

Psalm 51: 17 says, "The sacrifices of God are a ??broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise."   Once my heart and my spirit were completely broken, that is when God intervened.  This is just my two cents, but I wonder if God hasn't yet saved some people who asked him for help because He knows that - deep down - those people are still not ready for fully surrender to Him..  Deep down, maybe they are not broken..??

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:53:44 PM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
I never said you were an addict.(you did) I said you weren't clean. If God wanted you sober,and you still drink once in a while, then it sounds like he did a half assed job on you.

Can't get anything by you.   :notworthy:

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