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Messages - wtaylorg

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Cleveland Seed Revisited
« on: January 25, 2006, 11:59:00 AM »
Hey Cleveland:
I too drove past the Cleveland Seed several times and never even knew it. This was afew yrs back, when I was in Cleveland. I used to visit a friend who lived only a couple of blocks away from there. One day, I looked at the bldg and thought that's it, the H shape. I saw the old ball field behind it.

I didn't stop but, I sort of remebered the parking lot although it seemed different to me. I hated that bldg, It felt to me at the time
like a cold dungeon with catacombs.

But, I also hated the Seed in Ft Lauderdale. The entire time I lived down there, everyday I drove up to that place my heart would sink, and I felt very bad being there.
I couldn't wait to leave it everyday, but I knew I'd have to come back tomorrow.

The Seed Discussion Forum / "if you don't, she will die"
« on: January 20, 2006, 11:25:00 AM »
Hey cleveland:
Unless I'm wrong Suzie Connors didn't die, Suzie Barker did. You remember Suzie Connors? A smallish redhead with sharp features. She left about a yr or so before me and I left in '85. She worked at the credit card place as an exec. I remember seeing her in the weekend raps when I first moved down there in '82 and I saw her regularly there for at least 2 yrs.

After I hadn't seen her around in a while I find it ironic that one day she was on my list to call about the Safecard insurance and she answered the phone and I thought I recognized that voice, and I looked down and saw her name.
At that point I said I had to go, she might have told me she already had the protection. :eek:)
I never knew Suzie Barker. Wasn't she Art's niece? maybe TK could shed some light on that.
I have read a few postings about staying at the "house" recently My recollection is how everyone got to stay at the "house" except me. I wasn't asked to "watch the house" until shortly before I left. Funny how I was never trusted the whole time I was there to do something as simple as that. But hey I stayed. right?

I too, endured a similar experience with running into Seed people and trying to rekindle a shared reationship, after leaving the Seed. I ran into an old Seed friend in '86. He had been in Fla, earlier than me and asked to leave, so when I moved down in '82 he was already gone. We had been very good friends from '78-82 in Clev.  
I saw him at a movie house in I'm guessing '86 in Cleveland, Both of us were originally clevelanders, and came into the cleveland seed. He was visintg Clev I found out, as he was still working on his degree at Univ ofMiami.

We agreed to meet later, and for a few weeks during that summer we each tried to rekindle a past experience of having been close friends during our Seed days. But being removed from the bind of the Seed, showed both of us that we weren't interested in knowing someone from that part of our life anymore.
When we had been friends '78-82, we each knew the party line and never departed from it. At that time He was over his bitterness toward the Seed asking him to leave, and saw it as a blessing. I too, felt the same way, But, it was hard to share anything new, because our perception of each other was based on a shared past, which now was gone. It was like we were "new" people trying to escape the "Seeds" shackles.

We parted ways realizing how different we were then (now),and it was incomfortable to know each other later.
I went to a treatment program yrs after that event for my being a ACA "survivor". It was during this time that I was willing and able to work on my having been apart of the Seed and the consequences it had on my life. I learned some about cults and learned about the experience I had had with my old friend some yrs before.

Yeah his name was Rob M. And he loved to sail. We used to sail out on Lake Erie with his Dad near Astabula. I think Evan went once or twice. He later moved to Fla, before me and got kicked out before I moved down in '82. A really good guy.
I remember breaking off with Evan as being a hard thing, We were very close and yeah we used your stereo and listened to Aerosmith,  Jimi Hendrix, etc.  Evan had a guitar and played a few lick as I recall.

I remember visiting the Seed in Ft Lauderdale when I was in the 10th or 11th grade '80. My parents were vacationing in Pompano Beach and they dropped me off at the gate on SR84. Bob W, met me and ushered me in to the intake office near the gate, I was sequestered there for a 1/2 hr and Lybbi showed up and asked me if I have done drugs and if Bob or Evan had. I was literally shaking in my heels, cause I didn't know what was up.

She proceeded to tell me if I wanted to stay apart of the Seed, when I went back to Cleveland to have nothing to do with Evan or Bob. For a second my heart broke, as I loved those guys, and was confused about what if anything we had done

So, when I returned I did that and told Evan and Bob I had to end the friendship.
They called my parents and hung up on me for a few weeks and then it was over.

Typical Seed story.

Hey Cleveland:
When I used to stay the night at the Seed it always seemed to be with Jeff P. He always played the piano in the back office, jazz piano.

I always idolized/envied the Kienzle's because it seemed that the rules we had to obey didn't apply to them. It seemed like they mostly did what they wanted.
I remember Jim H, in much the same way, but he was gone by the time I moved down in '82.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / does anyone remember Brian M.?
« on: October 25, 2005, 06:36:00 PM »
Thanks, Brian Marble. Yes, he was a funny guy, but at least back in OH he was kinda quiet.
I hope he is well.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / does anyone remember Brian M.?
« on: October 25, 2005, 01:31:00 PM »
Me and a friend were arrested and charged with Breaking and Entering in '78. Avoiding youth hall, I was sent to the Seed in Cleveland, my cohort in this was sent to the Str8 in St. Pete. We were both 14 at the time and from Cleveland, OH.
His name was Brian M. He was very tall and skinny at least 6'0" at 14, and had dark brown/black hair.

I remember him as being a quiet kid. He never returned to Cleveland and I wonder if anyone from the Str8 in St. Pete in the late '70's might remember him.

The Seed Discussion Forum / message for Antigen
« on: October 21, 2005, 12:22:00 PM »
I was arrested with a kid for a breaking and entering in '78. I was sent to the Seed, and later I found out he was sent to the Straight in St Pete. His name was Brian M. A really tall lanky kid with dark hair. I have always wondered if you knew of him or maybe someone at the Straight board might remember him.

He never came back to OH and I have always wondered.


The Seed Discussion Forum / Why did cleveland branch close?
« on: October 20, 2005, 01:26:00 PM »
It was Oct/Nov '78. I remember that last day of the Cleveland Seed and being a Newcomer they asked me the previous day if I wanted to go to Ft Lauderdale to finish my program and being a minor my parents had to agree and I'm sure sign some type of form.
I met my Mom and she pleaded with me to change my mind about wanting to go. She had spoken with the juvenile court probate and She said a transfer to another facility was OK.

To this day I don't know why I agreed to go. I had my chance away from staff, but I felt intimidated into agreeing to go and most importantly I was angry with my parents.

I really wish I had chosen differently and become like my brother a "hippy" straight kid. Cause he still seemed cool to me. It never felt right being a Seed kid, it was like wearing clothes a size small.

But, that last day we met in a room I had never been in before. In the mornings we usually met in a room with windows looking out the back of the property. The chairs faced across the open meeting chairs in the typical "Seed" way. And in the afternoon we would move downstairs to another rap room, no open meeting chairs.  This day we met in room with no chairs and everyone sat on the ground. The raps were about taking care of each other after the Seed left, that kind of thing. Lots of oldcomers/timers spoke

We were taken to the airport in several big cars and I sat next to Ginger T on the plane ride down.
I remember the next day getting to the Ft Lauderdale Seed and thinking how big it was compared to Cleveland. A different atmosphere.
Yeah, I recall Scott B, and I recall not seeing him that much down in Ft Lauderdale. And I remember Hank and Robert being the "senior" people down there.

I remember John G. as being one of the volunteer staff members in Cleveland when I came in.
My memory of John Grimm involves when he came back to the Seed and went on the program again in Ft Lauderdale, early 80's right? After sometime he went back to work 2nd shift as a welder at one of the docks in Ft. Lauderdale.
My job was to pick him up in the morning about 8 or so when he got off work and drive him back to his apartment where he lived with his wife & son. I don't know why he wasn't driving himself, but that was what i was told to do.
This went on for a few weeks. One day I picked him up as usual, he said he was very tired and layed back in my car seats. I had a '63 Olds, with the bucket seats went far back.
He sort of seemed to be sleeping and then all of a sudden he said he needed to stop at a gas station to use the bathroom. I obliged and when he came out he got in the car and said he was going to nap.

I dropped him off and thought nothing of it and went back to the Seed.
Sometime later, Bob W, came and got me off the door and asked what John and I had been doing? I said nothing, he gave me the "Seed stare" and I verbally repeated what had occurred.
Bob said John's wife called the Seed and said that John had came in high on heroin. I was like "wow" I didn't know. Later, I was told he admitted to staff that he had shot up at the gas station. But, because all I had ever seen prior to coming to the Seed was pot smoking, I didn't know the signs.

I guess he started over and I never was asked to pick him up again. But, For the rest of my time down there I avoided him, partially  mad at him about that, because I myself was always on Seed probation. And it took some convincing on my part to get them to not put me on the front row as well.:smile:
But, obviously the guy was trying to do change his life, otherwise why would he have gone back down there.

He waas one of the good guys.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Dear John U
« on: September 30, 2005, 02:06:00 PM »
I think this is how it went, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Around '83, A yr after I moved down there, maybe a little earlier Art had a problem with his heart and was advised to quit smoking. Therefore smoking was banned at the Seed, at least in the bldg. Some guys and maybe girls still smoked elsewhere. I can't be certain. I used to ride around with Bob K and he would smoke.
I lived out in Davie at Bob W's house and sometimes I would ride out west  of Davie, going to the bank, near the Everglades, and have a smoke. I was busted a few times for having a cigarette while I stayed the night.
Staff told me I didn't need 'em, because now I was loved. (smile) I was certainly not comfortable enough to give up the only thing that gave me any sense of relief then.

Maybe a yr after the no smoking rule, Art had another heart problem and required a procedure of some sort. This initiated the "get healthy" rule. Prior to this the "girls made cookies, candy, that kind of thing and would bring it into the group. Not after that.

So, the point is the Seed mirrored Art's behavior and ideaology at the time. It changed as Art changed.
But, Art would still say in the group all the time he never changed because he was perfect.This idea was constantly repeated in raps. We had to change to come to Art's level. But, it was highly unlikely we ever would. Maybe the "blue bloods", but not the "workers".
Thanks for the proletariat!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Why Did YOU Stay Away?
« on: September 23, 2005, 12:15:00 PM »
Check your private messages.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Why Did YOU Stay Away?
« on: September 22, 2005, 10:51:00 PM »
In 1985 when staff told me I had to park my '63 olds and get rides into the Seed everyday because I didn't have the money for car insurance or gas, because I was one of the guys told to come in everyday.
I knew I had to leave.
While I watched others work and have the things I wanted, the important things, like a job with health insurance/a sense of gaining in this world.
 In my mind then after 3 yrs of working to achieve what i saw others take for granted, Freedom, I finally realized I wasn't the "cream of the crop" and I told Bob W. as much. I had made a mistake coming down here.

I left the next day after my 45 second converstion with Lybbi.
Bob told me to call in a couple of days. So, I called from Kentucky on my way back to OH. I believe Bob W. was as surprised to be talking to me that day as I was to him. I hung up the phone and realized I would never have anything to do with the Seed again.
That moment the people I believed were my friends/family for 7 yrs, I knew I would never know anymore.
It was fuzzy at first than it became clearer everday. I never had friends at the Seed, just conditional acquaintances.

The day I arrived back home my brother was waiting to meet me and my life's journey was finally to begin.

Check your private messages Ft. Lauderdale

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