Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 27, 2005, 07:00:00 PM
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Does anybody now anything about this place:
Carlbrook School
http://www.carlbrook.org (http://www.carlbrook.org)
It's run by Tim Brace and a bunch of other old CEDU big wigs.
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Sorry...I'm afraid I've never heard of Carlbrook..
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Interesting, It seems to be in the South in a plantation - how ironic that they trade on group of slaves for another.
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I just graduated from Carlbrook in July 2005, and honsetly, coming on this website and reading your replys about Carlbrook made me want to vomit. This school was the best thing that has ever happened to me and my family. I found out how important I am, and how what I was doing to my body, my heart, my mind was against everything that is simply true about me. Carlbrook does not beleive in fixing anybody, because they beleive in the theory that no one is broken, it is true. It is not a place where they lock kids up, it is a place where lost kids can find out what they want out of this life, to apologize to themselves for betraying love, truth and their hearts. This school has been my home for the past 17 months, it has been the most powerful experience. Yes, a lot of the student are in charge of things like a student body government, a committee where older students are bigs brothers and big sisters to new students who feel so completly and utterly uncomfortable, there are prefects where the students are making sure the dorms are emotionally safe. They dont care about the money, that is why it works, they put the students first and that should be the point of all therapeutic schools. I wasnt planning on going to college before Carlbrook, I had gotten kicked out of my previous boarding school and was majorly addicted to drugs. Now i am here, i have been sober for 20 months, i have made the best friends i have ever had, friends that are based off of pure truth and love and what feeds my soul, not drugs or boyfriends or superficial nonsense, and in September I will be attending one of the best colleges in the Country. All because I simply trusted for a moment and let my family love me, and loved my family and let others hold me while i cried and danced with my inner child. I realized that everything that i have been searching for has been within me, i have let my mom be my mom and my dad be my dad because i understand how important i am to this world. Carlbrook made all this possible for me to find and discover. Honsetly people that bash this place are just afraid of letting their children go, who dont beleive in going back and facing what eats them alive everyday, people that dont trust...But i understand it is hard and many families think this way before Carlbrook. Its all about love and individual strength.
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Wow, sounds like its just like all the CEDU schools! And you sound just like half the jokes that graduated from CEDU. We'll see how ya feel in a few more months when it hits ya that that beautiful "experience" is the furthest thing from reality you could've possibly imagined while you were living it. Enjoy!
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this girl can't be serious i mean honestly, this has to be someone just fucking around. nobody since brandon mcneely has gotten that brainwashed...
On 2005-08-21 19:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just graduated from Carlbrook in July 2005, and honsetly, coming on this website and reading your replys about Carlbrook made me want to vomit. This school was the best thing that has ever happened to me and my family. I found out how important I am, and how what I was doing to my body, my heart, my mind was against everything that is simply true about me. Carlbrook does not beleive in fixing anybody, because they beleive in the theory that no one is broken, it is true. It is not a place where they lock kids up, it is a place where lost kids can find out what they want out of this life, to apologize to themselves for betraying love, truth and their hearts. This school has been my home for the past 17 months, it has been the most powerful experience. Yes, a lot of the student are in charge of things like a student body government, a committee where older students are bigs brothers and big sisters to new students who feel so completly and utterly uncomfortable, there are prefects where the students are making sure the dorms are emotionally safe. They dont care about the money, that is why it works, they put the students first and that should be the point of all therapeutic schools. I wasnt planning on going to college before Carlbrook, I had gotten kicked out of my previous boarding school and was majorly addicted to drugs. Now i am here, i have been sober for 20 months, i have made the best friends i have ever had, friends that are based off of pure truth and love and what feeds my soul, not drugs or boyfriends or superficial nonsense, and in September I will be attending one of the best colleges in the Country. All because I simply trusted for a moment and let my family love me, and loved my family and let others hold me while i cried and danced with my inner child. I realized that everything that i have been searching for has been within me, i have let my mom be my mom and my dad be my dad because i understand how important i am to this world. Carlbrook made all this possible for me to find and discover. Honsetly people that bash this place are just afraid of letting their children go, who dont beleive in going back and facing what eats them alive everyday, people that dont trust...But i understand it is hard and many families think this way before Carlbrook. Its all about love and individual strength.
"
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Now now... come on, people. Be nice.
For one, I think it's great that you are going to college. That's good. Sometimes these schools can put us in better situations after we graduate. That was my experience with RMA, and I'll never put it down for that, even though the school was totally screwed up.
However, a word of warning. Be wary of trying to use what you have learned at this school and apply it to the real world. You may be disappointed, and you may alienate potential friends by trying to act the way you did in college like you did at Carlbrook. My advice for your freshman year of college, watch what other people do, pay attention to how other people behave in social situations, and REFRAIN from judging them based off of what you have learned at your old school, because it may be incorrect. Just as long as it doesn't do any harm to you personally, keep an open mind. (But protect yourself too, obviously, I mean, don't be stupid, you know?)
I know you have talked about how wonderful it was to get in touch with your inner child. Now it is time to move on and focus on the outer adult. (And have fun, too. I mean, this IS college, after all!)
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Holy crap, Tim Brace. He was running RMA when I was there. I wonder if he's still as totally hyper as he was back then.
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R. Grant Price, B.A., M.A.
Dean of Faculty
I believe that Grant is a Cascade School Alumn.
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On 2005-08-22 17:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"R. Grant Price, B.A., M.A.
Dean of Faculty
I believe that Grant is a Cascade School Alumn."
Oh ok, so Price is dean of faculty and Brace is dean of students. What's the difference, exactly? I thought dean of students had more direct interaction with the students.
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I think that it is great that you had a good experience. Not to many on this site have. But some of the things said are true. The school doesn't prepare you for the real world very well. You will have to learn that everthing that is taught to you isn't alwats for everyone. Most people will think your crazy if you tell them all about your time at the school. Especially if you use the lingo. I talking from experience. The first few months i did great then i hit rock bottom cause i felt like no one understood me and all they wanted to do was party. right now you might think that you have to only hang out with people that support you but you will find that most people your age want to try things. that is what we do. and that is how we learn. I fell into the whole if you can't beat them join them. As you get older it will become easier. quit a few people on this site do not like what i say but i am glad to see some one else that doesn't hate this type of school. i didn't always like it and it was hard and painfull. but i got aalot from it and i am better person now because of it.
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On 2005-08-21 21:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"this girl can't be serious i mean honestly, this has to be someone just fucking around. nobody since brandon mcneely has gotten that brainwashed...
No, I think she's as serious as a heart attack. Fact is, people get this brainwashed every damned day. Thanks for noticing, though. Maybe if more people would notice fewer would fall for the bullshit.I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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Sticks and stones, Ginger, one might just as well say that you're brainwashed yourself with your relentlessly negative view of these schools. Believing something strongly is not the same as being brainwashed.
That girl sounded happy, enthusiastic, caring, intelligent, forward-looking and grateful. All of which I seldom see among your typical fornit posters (who you define as clear thinking and free of any kind of brainwashing).
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Hey I'm happy for her if she's happy. Why rain on her parade? CEDU may be a pretty bad reflection of reality, but it is a real place, and just like any real place, everyone's experience is DIFFERENT. That's the main problem with fornits. It's not people being negative because in all honesty you need that kind of balance to keep things interesting. The problem is people around here try too hard to force their beliefs on others. I've been guilty of it myself a few times. Maybe it's because all we see are words and not the faces and emotions behind them.
All I know is that things really started looking up for me once I figured out how to differentiate who I really am from who boulder creek tried so hard to make me become. Now I can just pick and choose the best of both worlds and it's smooth sailing baby!
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To the woman who graduated from Carlbrook: Hi, I graduated from RMA in 1993. Our experiences at our respective schools sounds in many ways similar and I too went to college shortly after being graduated from RMA. My college experience remains one of the high points of my life. However, I suggest that you contemplate finding a good psychotherapist within the next year. My first year out of RMA was, in nearly all respects, great. Beginning my second year though was tough. I had made some good friends in college and was certainly having fun and involved in campus life, but there was a big part of me that missed the intimacy I had shared with people in my RMA peer group and with some staff. There was emotional closeness with others on which I had come to rely and that feeling was simply lacking for me after graduation. Added to that was that my peer group members were scattered across the Country and staff members were focused on new students. It had been very painful and I had felt abandoned -- more aptly, a piece of me felt as if it were missing. It was existential in its intensity. After about 18 months I started therapy (I went to the college counseling center). At the time I had felt like a failure. I mean I had had a ton of therapy for nearly 3 years while at RMA, how much more did I need? The pain I felt though was just too big to live with and was certainly greater than any shame I felt about seeking out therapy. In retrospect it was a good decision. I spent a little over two years in therapy integrating my RMA experience into my life outside the school. I had to find a way to use what I had learned in a way that was tenable ? not overwhelming ? to my new friends. It seemed to work. My experience was contrary to the those that some on here have shared, I found that people were drawn to me, in part because of the qualities I learned at RMA (trust, forgiveness, honesty etc.). However, the context of college was very different from the residential treatment of RMA and had to be adapted to the new environment. If you would like to talk/write further about this let me know (send a private message). Best, M
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IDAHO SPOKESMAN REVIEW
Suits allege abuse at two schools
Private CEDU academies treat troubled teens
Kevin Taylor- Staff writer
October 29, 2004
More than two dozen parents and former students at Rocky Mountain Academy and Boulder Creek Academy - two expensive private schools for troubled teens - have filed four lawsuits claiming a pattern of neglect and abuse inflicted upon kids by staff or by other students running out of staffers' control.
The four lawsuits can be grouped into two categories, Todd Reed, attorney for the plaintiffs, said Thursday. Two of the suits recount allegations of misconduct and breach-of-contract issues from Boulder Creek Academy near Bonners Ferry in the mid- to late-1990s; the others concern students more recently enrolled at Rocky Mountain Academy, which is near Naples, Idaho. Boulder Creek typically houses 70 students. Rocky Mountain, which typically enrolls nearly 40 students, currently has 30.
Among the allegations listed in the lawsuits filed at the Bonner County Courthouse in Sandpoint:
One boy was forced to dig a grave, crawl into a coffin in the grave and have dirt thrown on it by staff.
A girl was called "fatty" by staff even as she was being counseled by other staffers for bulimia.
Another girl was called a "whore" and forced by staffers to wear a derisive sign advertising oral sex.
Another suit alleges a student at RMA was hazed, beaten and insulted constantly and with impunity by other students because staffers were not in the dormitories and didn't seem to care enough to stop the beatings when they did find out.
"We believe these allegations have no basis," Julia Andrick, marketing and communications director for CEDU Family of Services Inc., the parent company for both Rocky Mountain and Boulder Creek academies. "The charges are groundless and we are going to go ahead and litigate as appropriate."
Reed said the lawsuits focus on poor staffing levels, poorly trained staff and a lack of supervision that led to verbal and physical abuse.
"We are not asserting that all staff are bad at Rocky Mountain Academy - my impression is that fine people work there," Reed said. "We are asserting there is a struggle between two differing thought processes - the old CEDU and the new CEDU."
The old CEDU was verbally abusive, he said, while the newer approach "focuses more on the therapeutic process." The schism, Reed said, is problematic: "My concern is there is a lack of direction. From our perspective, the problem was RMA was going through school directors so quickly nothing has been consistent."
Andrick said Rocky Mountain Academy in September hired its third director in 10 months and fourth since 2001. She was unable to provide numbers on staff turnover, but did agree the approach at the schools has been changing in recent years because the students are changing.
Students at Rocky Mountain Academy today typically are dealing with drug or alcohol problems in addition to the types of behavioral or emotional issues - "school failure, low self-esteem, families in turmoil" - that drew students in the past, Andrick said.
More staffers are drug and alcohol counselors than in previous times when students were typically taken into the wilderness to either perform various tasks or suffer "natural consequences," Andrick said, citing the example of getting wet if a student re-fused to pitch a tent on a hiking trip.
"It's not a schism. It's been an evolution," she said. "We are changing with the times and changing with society's needs."
The lawsuits allege families typically pay $5,500 a month - sometimes up to $16,000 for special six-week programs - with promises from CEDU that their children are "cared for, taught and treated by high-quality staff."
The high price should not equate to students being forced to use scissors to cut large areas of lawn in July while dressed in winter clothing, be routinely told by staffers "your parents don't love you," or to suffer sexual assaults from other students while staffers, according to the court papers, did nothing.
CEDU is no stranger to such lawsuits. In November 2002, the company paid a $300,000 settlement to two former students who had alleged CEDU hired poorly trained, abusive staff. The students said the situation was what led to a student riot at Rocky Mountain Academy in 1997. Five students and staffers were injured in the riot.
Reed said a second lawsuit against CEDU in North Idaho also was settled, but the amount of the award has been sealed.
"You pay outrageous amounts of money and send your kid to a location where it is represented that your child is safe," Reed said, "And instead your child is exposed to alcohol and drugs and sex at that location, and couple that with abusive actions directed at children by staff," showing that the academy staffers were poorly trained and supervised, he said.
"We keep detailed records on students and their activities and therapy and counseling and academic records," Andrick said. "We do have information and we do feel these are groundless lawsuits. It's sad, but we will battle it out in court."
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Same names, same game, ain't a damn thing changed...
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CEDU settles personal injury, fraud claims
Company to pay
By KEITH KINNAIRD
SANDPOINT - CEDU Educational Services has agreed to pay $300,000 to settle claims that the company bilked parents and failed to protect students from harm.
The settlement was announced Monday, the day a jury trial was to start in Sandpoint.
"Our clients are very pleased that we obtained the results that we did," said Todd Reed, co-counsel for the parents who brought the suit. "They are very glad to have this emotional experience completed so that the healing can continue. They did not want to go to trial and reopen their wounds."
Michael Ramsden, a Coeur d'Alene attorney representing CEDU, could not be immediately reached for comment on Monday.
The parents of former students Kevin Accomazzo and Stanton Lewis sued CEDU in 1997, claiming their sons were verbally and physically abused by CEDU staff. They also alleged the school was violating state and federal racketeering laws through deceptive billing practices.
CEDU, which has offices in Sandpoint, operates Northwest Academy, Rocky Mountain Academy, Boulder Creek Academy and Ascent. Located in Boundary County, the private boarding schools are geared toward students with academic or emotional difficulties.
The suit arose after a student uprising at Northwest Academy in January 1997. The riot left five people injured and brought to light claims by students that they were being mistreated by school staff.
A majority of the students at Northwest Academy felt their concerns were not being addressed and a grievance process for students was seen as ineffective, according to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare, which investigated the riot.
An incident involving Accomazzo helped trigger the revolt, according to Steve Verby, who is co-counsel with Reed. Accomazzo, then 17, suffered a broken arm in September 1996 when he was tackled from behind by a school employee for walking out of a group counseling session, court records state.
"The fact that Kevin was taken down by one of the counselors and had his arm broken was one of the incidents that lead to the unhappiness of the students," said Verby, who is running against Jack Douglas in today's election for 1st District judge.
Other students said school staff had berated them and spit in their faces, concerns which Health and Welfare officials later deemed valid.
Lewis, the other student in the suit, claimed school officials failed to protect him when he was set upon by another student who hit him in the head with an object. The injury required hospitalization and surgery, according to a copy of the complaint.
Parents of both students also claimed CEDU were defrauding them of hundreds of dollars through its billing practices. The students' actual laundry and transportation costs were well below what their parents were being charged, the attorneys said.
"Parents were getting charged what we alleged was an unconscionable amount, and they were charged for services that weren't provided," said Verby.
Accomazzo's parents, for instance, were charged $1,800 to have their son stay at a Bonners Ferry home after the riot. But Accomazzo spent some of those days on a slush-covered deck in a sleeping bag and a pup tent, court records show.
CEDU took advantage of parents who have the ability to pay large sums of money for their kids' education, Verby said. Parents, most of whom live out of state, had no way of knowing whether the charges were legitimate.
"The parent gets the invoice, thinks that that's the charge and pays it," he said. "Why should a parent pay for something that they didn't agree to pay for?
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When will the Struggling Parents wake up to the games of the Teen Hurt industry?
Not only do they fuck your kids up even worse than they were, they rip you off at every turn, for both goods and "services."
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The school is run by folks who really could have a more academic background in psychology. This is a concern when you are dealing with student who are very troubled and serious decisions have to be made. Parents are spending enormous amounts of money to help their children and it seems to me that those serving at the executive level need to be better qualified. Some of the therapists at this school seem very caring and it is a very nice looking facility. They seem to make a good effort academically. However, not everything is as it seems. Might be better than average though. I would not take everything at face value when looking at this school. Don't be fooled. If your child is suffering from depression...RUN! If your child is suffering from a serious disorder...RUN! If you have any doubts at all...RUN! Ask MANY questions and if you don't get good answers, RUN! Keep an eye out on your child. This school has potential, but it will always be a question mark in my book due to leadership issues.
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Just for clarification, I was referring to Carlbrook
Carlbrook seems to have a weak Executive Staff. They seem to have a surprisingly week background in psychology...esp. at the Executive level. This is a concern when you are dealing with students who are very troubled and serious decisions have to be made which influence the lives of teens and their families. Parents are spending enormous amounts of money to help their children and it seems to me that those serving at the executive level need to be better qualified. Some of the therapists at this school seem very caring and it is a very nice looking facility. They seem to make a good effort to provide a good quality education for your child. However, not everything is as it seems. (Might be better than average academically though, however I would not take everything at face value. Don't be fooled). This school is not for kids who are seriously disordered, depressed or who suffer from a severe problem with ODD. Keep an eye out on your child. Carlbrook has potential, but improvements need to be made especially in terms of leadership and in providing better psychological/psychiatric care for their students.
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John Gurney is like the headmaster there. Wasn't he a shrink at Ascent?
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I just spoke to 2 guys who graduated from Cascade about 10 years ago (maybe more). I told them to look at Carlbrook for me and give me their input, and tell me about their experiences were like during and after Cascade and what their lives are like now. I kind of felt like I wanted to sign up and go by the time they were done. I felt the same way when I spoke to people at Carlbrook---I'm new to all of this, but it sounds to me like they really care about kids and families and have a pretty amazing therapy program. I love my son a lot and never in a zillion years would I have thought I would be considering a therapeutic boarding school for him....He's in a wilderness program right now and sounds like he misses us, but also wants to see this all through. I'd love to hear a few random opinions. HELP!!! :???: [ This Message was edited by: ladybri on 2005-12-13 18:47 ]
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On 2005-12-13 18:45:00, ladybri wrote:
"I just spoke to 2 guys who graduated from Cascade about 10 years ago (maybe more). I told them to look at Carlbrook for me and give me their input, and tell me about their experiences were like during and after Cascade and what their lives are like now. I kind of felt like I wanted to sign up and go by the time they were done. I felt the same way when I spoke to people at Carlbrook---I'm new to all of this, but it sounds to me like they really care about kids and families and have a pretty amazing therapy program. I love my son a lot and never in a zillion years would I have thought I would be considering a therapeutic boarding school for him....He's in a wilderness program right now and sounds like he misses us, but also wants to see this all through. I'd love to hear a few random opinions. HELP!!! :???: [ This Message was edited by: ladybri on 2005-12-13 18:47 ]"
Please read this thread and the Carlbrook thread.
Some posters have expressed a great deal of concern over Carlbrook for the following reasons (and others):
-Staff members, including Director from confirmedly abusive CEDU system, which was forced to close after many lawsuits and criminal prosecutions of staff members.
-Weak "self-paced" academics
-Even weaker therapy component with no licensed therapists
This place definitely throws up more than a few very serious red flags.
Aside from that, why are you sending your kid away at all. What is his diagnosis? By whom was he evaluated and when?
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Ladybri:
I hope you are looking at other resources regarding Carlbrook. Please keep in mind that this site typically only offers one perspective.
I know all of the founders of Carlbrook personally and much of the what is written in the previous post is just not true.
1) The current Director of Carlbrook was not at any of the Cedu schools when they closed and had not been for several years. Nor was he working for Cedu when the lawsuits mentioned were brought against the various schools
2) They do have strong academics. Their teachers are highly educated and qualified.
3)They also have qualified, licensed therapists, most, if not ALL, have master's degrees.
And you are right, they do care about the kids.
I agree that there are SEVERAL bad apples out there. I AGREE that there has been abuse at some of these programs. But Carlbrook should not be put into those groups.
Go visit. It may be a great fit for your son.
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I am going to visit...and my son seems interested too. I have found that what you have said is true...There is a LOT of quialification that staff, founders, and therapists have. I have spoken to some kids from the school, some parents and some staff. I will be going to visit. The more I find out, the more I actually like...
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On 2005-12-15 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ladybri:
I hope you are looking at other resources regarding Carlbrook. Please keep in mind that this site typically only offers one perspective.
I know all of the founders of Carlbrook personally and much of the what is written in the previous post is just not true.
1) The current Director of Carlbrook was not at any of the Cedu schools when they closed and had not been for several years. Nor was he working for Cedu when the lawsuits mentioned were brought against the various schools
2) They do have strong academics. Their teachers are highly educated and qualified.
3)They also have qualified, licensed therapists, most, if not ALL, have master's degrees.
And you are right, they do care about the kids.
I agree that there are SEVERAL bad apples out there. I AGREE that there has been abuse at some of these programs. But Carlbrook should not be put into those groups.
Go visit. It may be a great fit for your son.
"
What a line of BULLSHIT. This person has to be making cash off the referral, because this post is soooooooo full of lies. You people never cease to amaze (and disgust) me...
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I posted that reply about Carlbrook. And I had to laugh that you think I am getting paid for a referral... 1) I posted anonymously. 2) You don't know my history with these programs.
The person that posted about Carlbrook not having good academics, licensed therapists, etc is the one that doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Anyone can do their own research and find out that these are lies.
Again, I don't dispute the abuse that goes on at some of thees programs, including the old Brown schools, but Carlbrook does not fall into that group. Some of the founders were also students way back when and agree that abuse went on. They have created a program that does not ABUSE kids. They are using their own experience... creating a program that is different from what they went through. Did you ever consider that they are using their CEDU and Cascade experience as what NOT to do??????
Again, not ALL programs out there for teens/kids are BAD!!!!!!!!
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On 2005-12-16 07:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I posted that reply about Carlbrook. And I had to laugh that you think I am getting paid for a referral... 1) I posted anonymously. 2) You don't know my history with these programs.
The person that posted about Carlbrook not having good academics, licensed therapists, etc is the one that doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Anyone can do their own research and find out that these are lies.
Again, I don't dispute the abuse that goes on at some of thees programs, including the old Brown schools, but Carlbrook does not fall into that group. Some of the founders were also students way back when and agree that abuse went on. They have created a program that does not ABUSE kids. They are using their own experience... creating a program that is different from what they went through. Did you ever consider that they are using their CEDU and Cascade experience as what NOT to do??????
Again, not ALL programs out there for teens/kids are BAD!!!!!!!!"
Ur nuts :silly: There are plenty of posts from CB students saying they were treated badly, didn't get an education and never even saw a therapist, only unlicensed, uneducated "counselors." I tend to believe first-hand accounts over marketing materials. Sorry, but facts are facts and this place is a cookie-cutter model of the EG prototype that uses unsound, damaging behavior mod techniques.
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Concerns with the school/not ideal
Posted: 2005-09-17 11:43:00
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It's interesting to me that both my child and Karen's child did not graduate from Carlbrook. I know my husband and I were told by Carlbrook officials that our child probably had a VERY serious disorder. The implication was that he would never get better. After therapy by a qualified therapist locally, he received Employee of the Month twice at his part time job. This year, he is on the Dean's list in college. Truthfully, I don't know anyone his age who is more responsible.
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I just graduated from Carlbrook this month, and it was a life changing experience. What the person said early in this forum was all true, I learned all that about myself. The thing is though, none of us go around like machines or anything. We all still have our own personalities. Kids want to do druggs and drink and some still do. The thing is that Carlbrook, shows how the world can be. I have know problem fitting into the world. I make friends very easily, and am doing it in a way that is truer to myself. You guys talk about brainwash, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I concede that many people didn't like it, I fucking hated it at times, but it helped, and some people go back to their old shit. Then again, most of you probably don't think it did shit because you don't want to give up the glory of doing drugs and shit, and you think that's right. I'm fine with that. CB works on more than that shit, as a matter of fact, a very minimal effort is put forth for that because they don't like to preach, you can say what you want, but think of the last time you really felt happy; not high, not accepted, but happy because for me it had been a long time and now I have more of those moments
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On 2005-12-20 05:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I just graduated from Carlbrook this month, and it was a life changing experience. What the person said early in this forum was all true, I learned all that about myself. The thing is though, none of us go around like machines or anything. We all still have our own personalities. Kids want to do druggs and drink and some still do. The thing is that Carlbrook, shows how the world can be. I have know problem fitting into the world. I make friends very easily, and am doing it in a way that is truer to myself. You guys talk about brainwash, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I concede that many people didn't like it, I fucking hated it at times, but it helped, and some people go back to their old shit. Then again, most of you probably don't think it did shit because you don't want to give up the glory of doing drugs and shit, and you think that's right. I'm fine with that. CB works on more than that shit, as a matter of fact, a very minimal effort is put forth for that because they don't like to preach, you can say what you want, but think of the last time you really felt happy; not high, not accepted, but happy because for me it had been a long time and now I have more of those moments"
This place claims to have great academics, but from this post, that's dubious.
Give it a few years, kid. You'll see what bunk it is.
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why would you waste your time telling kids they're going to fuck up? what a loser.
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Whatever you think in a general way of this or other schools discussed here, why would you ever wish or predict that some person who is trying to do well would fail?
Now that is a pretty good approximation of the meaning of evil.
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yeah well im a graduate from the school and i got arrested for selling morphine and kicked out of school my old high school, then did Carlbrook, and now im going to college. its kind of simple. im sorry this nihl guy is wasting his time bashing something he doesnt know about, but he seems pretty miserable, so thats okay.
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and brainwashing...thats insultingly ignorant
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Contrary to popular beliefs on this site, I think that there are some programs out there that are beneficial to some students. I don't think that ALL programs are bad.
I think that isaccorp.org has a great list of horrible programs that should be CLOSED DOWN immediately. Carlbrook is not on that list.
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On 2006-01-02 10:24:00, Boomerang wrote:
"Contrary to popular beliefs on this site, I think that there are some programs out there that are beneficial to some students. I don't think that ALL programs are bad.
I think that isaccorp.org has a great list of horrible programs that should be CLOSED DOWN immediately. Carlbrook is not on that list. "
It should be and will be in the future. It's a new program and it takes some time for people to start relating the experience there.
I personally have heard some horror stories, mostly about their taking kids that have no business being in that environment (ones with pretty serious metal disturbances).
I've also heard about kids without prior psychological evaluation being admitted under a made up diagnosis derived from their intake meeting.
What I see as the biggest problems are no real therapy for kids who definitely need it, inappropriate treatment plans based on contrived diagnoses, lack of professional mental health counselors and staff that came from previously shut down notorious abusive programs.
For the price they charge, the real lack of menatal health care, the substandard academics and the phonied-up admission criteria its a pretty poor facility.
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http://www.carlbrook.org/home.htm (http://www.carlbrook.org/home.htm)
"Carlbrook serves the needs of bright, underachieving students aged 15 to 18 who have historically challenged convention and questioned authority."
Is there something wrong with challenging convention and questioning authority????
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I graduated from Carlbrook in May 2005. Yes, it had its fair share of negative aspects, but there was no abuse, the therapists were licensed, the academics were better then any public school, every teacher had a masters degree, and the staff cared about you. Yes, Carlbrook does not work for every kid, but just because it didn't work for some doesn't mean you people need to stereotype the whole program. If you think you could do a better job helping kids, then do it. It helped me out, and I was a pretty messed up kid. Anyone who downs it is just plain ignorant. Yes I hated many things there, but it turned my life around.
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Posted: 2006-01-03 21:39:00
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After spending about an hour reading through the thread, I am surprised that I am the only graduate thus far that is displeased with Carlbrook. I have been out for more than a year now and can say that I underwent the typical 6 month euphoria period and then dropped. Since coming out, I have been much more fucked up emotionally. Using the therapeutic terms I've become so well endeared with, I now experience negative thinking and depression much more than I did before- to the point where I am thoroughly anti-social and confused about everything. The issues that were brought up in the Workshops (see LGA) constantly pervade my thoughts. I question myself much more so than I used to and all of my actions. I have become a much more indecisive personality and question my every motive, my every choice. Many people have said you are free to walk away at any time. This is true, but you are also forewarned and constantly threatened with wilderness and much more emotionally distressing programs. Many children are forced to take medication. I refused for a long while and was constantly confronted in group therapy (different than a workshop) about why I was being so unreceptive to something that would help me. The psychologist there will prescribe on the drop of a dime. If you are recommended, no matter what you say, he will state that you are in need of medication. Once you agree to take this medication, if you miss it during the appointed time, you are assigned a one hour work crew. Places like this should not exist. Your friends are turned against you at every turn and the simplest of things are blown up. You turn into the scapegoat for many kids own personal issues and if you disagree, regardless of whether or not you are the one being attacked, you are taking away from the "safety" of others in the group. It's a more realistic version of the group therapy portion of the book "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" by Ken Kesey. I too was once on the golden float of Carlbrook. I will admit that my life was headed down the wrong path. Well, I've graduated and I still don't know that I'm headed where I want to. Some of the things, I didn't connect with and I was bashed because of it. I will admit that some of the closest friends I've ever had came out of this school. It's a Utopian society that doesn't prepare you at all for life outside of the therapeutic bubble. As with any school, they do play favorites. They manipulate, they play mind games. You're not brainwashed in the sense that, voila, you can't think anymore. You're brainwashed in a way that makes it a struggle to live your life. I'll be posting more later.
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2006-01-04 01:27:00
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Thank you so much for posting this. I was getting really sick of all the pro-Carlbrook crap from supposed alumni and satisfied parents, which pretty much sounded like it was all coming from the same person.
I'm all for dissent regarding the validity of programs, but the "people" who defended carlbrook all sounded alike, refused to answer or address questions posed to them by other fornits' members, and I felt like I was the designated dupe in a mirrors trick.
Welcome to the "disorientation" phase of deprogramming. i.e. the part where you start to feel really depressed and isolated and try to use the tools you learned at school to help your situation, but sadly, realize that they have lost their "magic" that they seemed to have had within the environment of the campus.
I call it the disorientation phase because this is the point where you go "what the fuck?" As in, "what the fuck happened?" and "what the fuck am I supposed to do now?" and "what the fuck is going on in my head?"
Followed closely by the "why the fuck"s. As in, "why the fuck do I feel so miserable?" and "why the fuck is it so hard for me to make friends and act properly with others?" and "why the fuck do I feel so alone?"
Then you'll get mad, and go through the "who the fuck?"s as in "who the fuck did those people think they were, anyway?" and "who the fuck's idea was it to 'help' teens in this manner?" and "who the fuck is ever going to understand what I went through?"
I went to RMA, part of the CEDU schools. One of your deans, Tim Brace, was the headmaster of my school when I went there. He was a weepy, melodramatic git who talked out of his ass most of the time and had no grasp on reality.
Based on alumni's descriptions of the Carlbrook curriculum, it sounds a lot like a fancy, prep-school version of the CEDU education.
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Posted: 2006-01-04 05:57:00
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Very nicely written. I'm sorry that you had to have this awful experience.
I have been saying since this program opened that it would take some time to get a realistic perspective from a former patient because it takes about a year for the reality of what you experienced to settle into your now adult mind.
The experiences you were led to believe would be helpful seemed hurtful, but the developing mind is unable to stave off the constant reeducation of indoctrination. There will be many more stories of abusive, unfair, unethical and nonsensical treatment that young patients were forced to endure at the hands of uneducated hacks, pseudo-psychotherapists, new-age pop psyche counselors, bm dominators and generally unbalanced people who subscribe to the program's methods.
It's unfortunate that people still refer to these RTC's as "schools," as it is abundantly clear that Carlbrook, like its predecessors, is nothing more than a BM warehouse whose primary purpose is conformity, NOT education. While they perpetrate fraud on desperate parents, they abuse the young patients with same methods used by their fellow programs: bait and punish, instill hopelessness, foster dependency, extirpate individuality, forced confessions, forced labor, forced medication, isolation, instilled fear, and no therapy by qualified professionals.
Their use of LGAT seminars on unstable children is appalling. This is an extremely dangerous, demonstrably ineffective and damaging practice.
Once more, I am deeply troubled about your experience at Carlbrook. You may rest assured, however, that the more data and personal accounts that are provided about the abuse heaped on children there bring Carlbrook ever closer to legal reckoning and inevitable closure.
It's going to take some time, but eventually they will be regulated by enforceable laws, stung with personal injury lawsuits and caught committing illegal acts against children in their care, just as nearly every single one of these programs has in the past.
Try to hang in there, get yourself right and, when you can, do what you are able to help future patients avoid the experience you had.
Good luck. Keep in touch.
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On 2006-01-04 06:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"2006-01-04 01:27:00
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Thank you so much for posting this. I was getting really sick of all the pro-Carlbrook crap from supposed alumni and satisfied parents, which pretty much sounded like it was all coming from the same person.
I'm all for dissent regarding the validity of programs, but the "people" who defended carlbrook all sounded alike, refused to answer or address questions posed to them by other fornits' members, and I felt like I was the designated dupe in a mirrors trick.
Welcome to the "disorientation" phase of deprogramming. i.e. the part where you start to feel really depressed and isolated and try to use the tools you learned at school to help your situation, but sadly, realize that they have lost their "magic" that they seemed to have had within the environment of the campus.
I call it the disorientation phase because this is the point where you go "what the fuck?" As in, "what the fuck happened?" and "what the fuck am I supposed to do now?" and "what the fuck is going on in my head?"
Followed closely by the "why the fuck"s. As in, "why the fuck do I feel so miserable?" and "why the fuck is it so hard for me to make friends and act properly with others?" and "why the fuck do I feel so alone?"
Then you'll get mad, and go through the "who the fuck?"s as in "who the fuck did those people think they were, anyway?" and "who the fuck's idea was it to 'help' teens in this manner?" and "who the fuck is ever going to understand what I went through?"
I went to RMA, part of the CEDU schools. One of your deans, Tim Brace, was the headmaster of my school when I went there. He was a weepy, melodramatic git who talked out of his ass most of the time and had no grasp on reality.
Based on alumni's descriptions of the Carlbrook curriculum, it sounds a lot like a fancy, prep-school version of the CEDU education.
"
Why are you copying what I wrote in another thread? Are you not capable of your own thoughts?
I'm flattered that you like what I wrote, but seriously, do your own work, or I will send you to the principal's office for plagarism.
If you are quoting me, than please make it more obvious that you are doing so. That's what the quote tags are for.
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:44 ]
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"Oh I liked my high school" "No your highschool sucked, somebody there was mean to me they wouldn't let me have my drugs'
What's obvious people. This program like a lot of others discussed at this site was (overall) positive for some kids not so for others.
Too many people acting like the answers are black and white. Like anybody who believes they got something from that school must be brainwashed. It's just as immature when somebody who's doing well is saying that their school program is the only, the one-and-only way to change. Only I don't hear this so much so it makes me think that the negative posters are more immature.
Anyway it's all a big yawn. If I talked this much about my highschool ten years later I'd be looking for more to do with my present life.
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On 2006-01-04 15:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Anyway it's all a big yawn. If I talked this much about my highschool ten years later I'd be looking for more to do with my present life."
Why then do you continue posting about cedu?
Stop inflating your pathetic ego, because you're no better than anyone else who posts here!
What's really obvious here, is that you have absolutely no grasp of reality. The truth is that Cedu is abusive, and hurts a lot more people than it helps. That's the reason why you don't see many posters saying that cedu is "the one and only way to change"; because most people aren't stupid enough to believe that shit!
If you're tired of seeing cedu bashed (deservedly so), then leave, go to sleep already, or better yet buy a gun and blow your fucking brains out! No one here gives a shit about a loser like you anyways!
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thats because the people who went there have better things to do with their lives than sit in some fuck forum all day and bitch about how things aren't working
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I was also a former RMA student in the 80's...I personally did NOT feel comfortable with Tim Brace yet I'm not about to air his dirty laundry that he copped to in Propheets & Raps...it may be a little more polished now but beware...I agree with the above comments if you think you are saving your son now...just wait until the future when he is even more messed up than when he went there and has psychological issues like many of the students that went to RMA. The school was very small when I was there so I feel that the ultimate success rate was very poor. Do a little research and cross referencing of names and you will find that there is a very tangled web between all these schools.
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On 2006-01-12 05:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was also a former RMA student in the 80's...I personally did NOT feel comfortable with Tim Brace yet I'm not about to air his dirty laundry that he copped to in Propheets & Raps...it may be a little more polished now but beware...I agree with the above comments if you think you are saving your son now...just wait until the future when he is even more messed up than when he went there and has psychological issues like many of the students that went to RMA. The school was very small when I was there so I feel that the ultimate success rate was very poor. Do a little research and cross referencing of names and you will find that there is a very tangled web between all these schools. "
I would hope you would reconsider telling what you know about this man. He has crossed the line from footsoldier to officer.
He is now making what could be life-altering judgements about children under his care and I believe it is up to those of us who know the truth about these programs and their employees to tell prospective parents the reality of exactly what they're dealing with.
What do you know about this man that may lead parents to reconsider using his program?
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find Kathy (possibly Kathleen) Brace...Tim's Ex wife...she will tell you what I want you to know about him.
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On 2006-01-12 19:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"find Kathy (possibly Kathleen) Brace...Tim's Ex wife...she will tell you what I want you to know about him."
I don't understand why you are being so coy about all of this. If you didn't want to talk about it, then why did you bring it up to begin with? That's a bit passive agressive, don't you think?
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:44 ]
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Kathleen and Tim are still happily married. The poster that suggested that contact be made with his ex should get their facts straight....
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On 2006-01-13 16:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Kathleen and Tim are still happily married. The poster that suggested that contact be made with his ex should get their facts straight...."
Your "evidence" can be held up to as much scrutiny as theirs can, you know. It's your word against theirs, since it is going to be rather difficult to produce proof on his marital status either way.
Besides, whether he is divorced or not doesn't really matter. The point is that he is a total creepy, annoying git, and that is for certain, because I knew him.
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I don't mean to invalidate your statements with my conjecture, but I wholly disagree. Yes, it is important for adolescents/children to receive appropriate intervention to essentially buffer against any future tragedies, but this system (I cannot speak on others) was no more than a fee-driven violation of morality and, well, human rights.
Yes, I'm sure that the statistics that CEDU was able to offer parents ready to dispose of their adolescent garbage were quite convincing - but the simple fact is, they're specious. The fact that this program is ostensibly meant to improve society is nauseating. These children that I witnessed while in SUWS, RMA, and Ascent over a decade ago were not being "saved" by any means - they were being frightened.
I'm not so sure that I would go as far to say that they were receiving a "cerebral cleansing", but given the impressionable years that adolescents are exposed to these upper SES atrocities - they were definitely being molded in an image of the "emotionally copasetic".
I couldn't believe what I was witnessing the moment I arrived to RMA. It seemed as if everyone wanted to hold hands with me and "sing kumbaya". Fine. But, was it really them that so "graciously" took me by the hand? Absolutely not. The expressions on their faces were so contrived and emotionless; and I can chalk it up as nothing less than derived by fear, impressionism, but mostly - a lack of love.
Let's be honest, the main distal reason why the majority of these children are entered into such a program is due to a family's own failure to maintain social cohesiveness. The proximal reason may be for many (potentially justifiable causes). Clearly, the correlation of higher SES and enrollment says something in and of itself. The higher the income, more disenchanted families become from one another, the more dysfunctional - so let's send him/her off...to save him/her. You must be joking.
Therefore, did it work? Possibly, but not for the appropriate reasons. And certainly not for the exorbitant extortion that they charge. What makes matters worse was the means in which their sloppy success was achieved. I will be the first to admit that these children were abused - physically, emotionally, mentally, and arguably sexually.
I even experienced a few marginal accounts of abuse - such as sitting on a tree stump for 5 days straight and subsequently obtaining severe burns on the back of my neck. Would I go as far to say that this is worse than some Liberian insurgents who force children to murder others for the price of a big mac? No. Yet the main distinction drawn here is simple - THIS IS AN EXCEEDINGLY EXPENSIVE PROGRAM MEANT TO CURB ABUSE NOT PROPAGATE IT.
Let's be honest, is there really any justifiable need to charge $3,500/month for a lack of education - outside of the simple fact rich parental failures will pay for it? I was in the 3 aforementioned programs above for over 5 months (until I escaped from the Betty Ford derivative of Alcatraz - never to be 're-captured) and didn't receive a speckle of classroom time. If the "cause" was truly felt, this sort of service could have and is a minute fraction of the price.
And these "intervention specialists" - could they possibly think of a more amusingly diplomatic title? These hired thugs might have the right intentions, but does it REALLY concern them what purpose they are serving outside of that $65/hour job (quite a handsome amount for most who arguably never went beyond the 8th grade).
The point is: the whole thing is/was nothing less than an intolerable scam, and they should be punished for it. I only pray that I could have spent more time on the relentless campaign of exposing these capitalist prisons for what they were. But alas, my world has taken on a new and much deeper meaning. And it seems as if there are those who have already beat me to the punch - kudos.....
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bum
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very good points te2105...
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i went to carlbrook and ran away, and there is some definite brainwashing, but some kids are so far down their own twisted path that it takes some heavy control to move them in a more positive direction
of course, most of the lessons wear off quickly after graduation
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...All because I simply trusted for a moment and let my family love me, and loved my family and let others hold me while i cried and danced with my inner child. I realized that everything that i have been searching for has been within me, i have let my mom be my mom and my dad be my dad because i understand how important i am to this world. Carlbrook made all this possible for me to find and discover. Honestly people that bash this place are just afraid of letting their children go, who dont beleive in going back and facing what eats them alive everyday, people that dont trust...But i understand it is hard and many families think this way before Carlbrook. Its all about love and individual strength.
I understand where you're coming from...I graduated RMA in 93, almost 15 years ago, and I agree with some of what you say. One of the biggest things I took from there was a sense of accomplishing something that no one (including, especially, me) can take away from me. I loved the wilderness trips. I still talk to and am close with people from the school. BUT. I don't know about your school, but RMA did nothing to prepare us for post-graduation. They cut us off from our friends still at the school for 6 months because they expected us to fall flat on our faces. There were staff allowed to work at the school that should have never been let near children. We were verbally abused regularly in attempts to change us. And yeah, we were teenagers, we were fucked up, but it was damn aggressive. Cut off from our families, with a moderated phone call every 2 weeks? Really? Kept up for 24 hours in attempts to break our spirits and then build us back up in the image they chose for us? That shit's illegal. Not to mention the $4500 a month they charged for us to be there. I noticed in your post that you didn't mention tuition?
Look, bottom line...I'm really glad that you came out of there feeling the way you're feeling. But it's true what MAD said in his post, it gets tricky the longer you're out. It takes some time to acclimate and integrate the program with the real world. A lot of people will look at you like you've sprouted big purple donkey ears when you try to tell them about your experience. And you'll find some good people along the way who will listen and try to understand. And you may find yourself feeling differently in a few years, or not. Who knows, everyone's different.
We're all here just trying to make some sense out of it, and we're entitled to our views, just as you are entitled to yours.
But I wish you the best of luck.
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I had lotsa good sex at that place.
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Anybody interested in Carlbrook please visit the site http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461). It is a public facebook forum that discusses Carlbrook and in which people are not anonymous, thus seeks to eliminate some of the more colorful and less productive aspects trends that occur on this one. If anybody is interested in documenting what went on at Carlbrook and taking it beyond the internet (not necessarily to the courts but gaining more legitimacy for our concern) I am attempting to collect sworn affidavits about the events that went on that aim to capture the truth. If you have told the truth you can use the accounts you've already made on this site and have them notarized. It is relatively easy to do this at a bank. Collecting affidavits of what went on there is important because obviously the extreme level of discontent coupled with severity and volume of accusations merits at least some sort of review by a state agency, the courts, or a specialist in mediation/arbitration. Tell the truth and don't exaggerate in any affidavits or you will be subject to perjury. You are also potentially sacrificing anonymity. You can either post your account on the facebook website or you can send it to my e-mail, [email protected]. I personally am glad that I went to Carlbrook in the long run. Less because of what Carlbrook did but because I did need a change of environment. There are good people there and it saddens me that their employment may be threatened by irresponsible and reckless decisions of their superiors. I do honestly believe every single person, aside from maybe one or two was convinced that they were helping us. However, this issue is bigger then whether you liked Carlbrook or the people there. This is about what is acceptable to do to people, no matter what they have done, against their will. This is about the type of breakdown that happens in many organizations that suffer from a closed, secretive management. There were several things that were unacceptable, regardless of your experience.
What was unacceptable was that Grant Price and others who ran groups and made explicitly "therapeutic decisions" has no formal training, education or certification to be providing mental health services (which is exactly what running a group therapy is doing). Carlbrook is not held to any standards in the provision of such services and that is a problem. There are a reason standards and regulations exist in this field (even if they have problems of their own). I think even those who cherished the experience realize that a lot of what went on was not OK and though intentions may not have been malicious by any party, kids were hurt and traumatized by the purposely constructed environment of acute stress and anxiety. Even if you could "take it" some couldn't. People are different. A one size fits all approach of breaking people down and building their identity back up may be useful in forming a cohesive military unit but it is not in treating kids for problems that in many instances are related to stress and anxiety in the first place. Creating an environment with the level of intensity and stress that Carlbrook did obviously will have different effects on different types of people. The degree of emotional invasiveness can also not be underestimated. Forcing people to disclose things they don't want to is simply unethical. Plain and simple. I see this as not an issue of whether or not you liked Carlbrook or certain people there. I see this as an issue of Carlbrook making egregious and harmful administrative errors and being held accountable like any other organization that provided you sub-standard services. If Johnson & Johnson sells defective Tylenol, like they did, they are held to account. Carlbrook purposely humiliated kids, engaged in arbitrary and bizarre punishment and the therapeutic relationships and incentives are certainly highly unethical if not illegal. I would like to know for certain if they are and what potential damage might have been inflicted. I would like to know if Carlbrook gave kids Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which is a condition that worsens with age. I personally am not OK with so much of what went on at Carlbrook and think that a lack of accountability for past events or sweeping what happened "under the rug" would set a terrible precedent and would only encourage others to provide even worse services to kids. Carlbrook is attempting to legitimize and dilute a form of treatment that has been roundly rejected by medical professionals, the courts, and state agencies. Please join me in writing and notarizing an affidavit.
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????????????? ?????????
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YES, CEDU connected.
Where are the newer posts?
Just because Carlbrook was has changed some of its practices to look above-board and avoid law suits, it's still ALL about the money. They longer they keep you there, the more money they make! There techniques are harmful!
"The "therapeutic mileau" is meant to facilitate the "un-freezing" of the psychological structure of a client. But this "break 'em down, and build 'em up" process consistently causes psychological harm and goes hand in hand with extreme forms of cruelty. History shows us that although these methods are powerful, they are dangerous. There is no safe way to restructure a teenager's psychology through aversive treatments and Pavlovian re-conditioning methods. Wherever human kindness and basic contact with the world can only be earned through compliance; when communication with family is forbidden and the identity is assaulted; when a child is not allowed privacy or autonomy over bodily functions; when complaints are met with punishment; when a child is denied compassion and yet prevented from leaving; where "un-freezing" is forcibly coerced...abuse is being used as a "therapeutic tool". This type of social system is a "Bad Barrel" that will consistently produce "Bad Apples." Why do we assume this behavior-change technology can ever be practiced safely? " Marcus Chatfield, Straight survivor
Keep pushing for reform and accountability. Save future kids from harm.