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Messages - GregFL

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46
The Troubled Teen Industry / Which program was Phil McGraw in?
« on: December 24, 2007, 12:10:41 AM »
Hey, it was me and Ginger discussing "dr." Phil last week.

I have long suspected he was in some program connected to our particular brand of torture. Last week I was channel surfing and became transfixed to his come down on techniques.

i mean, just how many 'normal' people tell people to "get honest", "dont' give me that druggie crap", and "Druggies are lying when their lips are moving".

these are clearly program classics.

How about another?  The other day when he was berating some crack head, he mentioned someone in the audience and very confrontational like said " John H. stand up"...then proceeded to waylay him with information about him that the poor schlep didn't know the "dr." knew.

No, this anal wart has spent some time in/around some straight/seed/growing together/other teen torture camp trash heap. either that, or he was trained by someone who did.

watching Dr. Phil is like watching a train wreck.  bad therapy doled out to idiots.

47
The Seed Discussion Forum / The SEED and Art Barker on FICA
« on: December 19, 2007, 10:50:20 AM »
Thanks Kathy!

You may wish to search this website as there are several articles  posted on Art.  Feel free to copy into your website anything you find.

48
The Seed Discussion Forum / Brainwashing
« on: December 07, 2007, 09:36:21 AM »
Quote from: ""hp456""

I feel like I am a weak person for believing and buying into everything.  I even told other clients that their brains needed washing.  I am disappointed that I didn't hold out.  I wish that I had fought instead of blindly following what they said.  I feel like a fucking sell out.  How do I "deprogram"?


Guilt is one of the program's legacy.  Let yourself off the hook.  You were not at fault but rather overwhelmed, confused and perhaps like most of us went into survival mode.  The programs play off of that and the modality counts on it.

Once you stop blaming yourself and learn all you can about what happened to you, the process will come naturally.  Good luck and thanks for posting.

49
The Seed Discussion Forum / Brainwashing
« on: December 03, 2007, 09:20:32 AM »
corrected the broken link above...

50
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: December 02, 2007, 11:37:56 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""

What makes cedu so pernicious is that the brainwashing is not specific to drugs, it's tailored to each specific person. Each person has done something "wrong" in their lives, or had something painful happen and that something is used as prima ficiie- the "sickness".
Long term, it's harder to beleive you were addicted to a drug you never tried, and was saved from it, than you were a self destructively irresponsible teen becasue you cut class. That's a less obvious absurdity, and therefore, more confusing.

.


CEDU and the Seed/Straight shared more in common than you may think. The Seed also went for you darkest secrets and then attacked you at that level. It wasn't all about drugs even tho that was the main focus.  the basic techniques were the same...rip you up, break you down to nothing and then replace the void with Seedling doctrine.

It was not uncommon to stand up a 13 year old girl in a group of almost 1000 kids and have people take turns screaming at her, telling her they knew her "on the streets" and she was a big joke, not pretty, ackward, ugly..freckeled..skinny...fat..whatever.. Then guys would scream at her that they would have screwed her and laughed at her and  throw her out/ girls would say  she was so lame she couldn't even fuck a coke bottle. This wouldn't stop until she was reduced to sobbing.  Then it was off to girls/boys rap, where they seperated us and made us confess our sexual secrets, only to be used against us later. I will never forget one boy, about 16, who confessed in boys rap to having oral sex with a neighbor boy.  Later, they stood him up in group and made him recant the story but now in front of the girls, then all the kids hands shot up and the staffer called on them one at a time to rip him apart for what seemed forever, took turns just shredding him.  The next day he was gone and never spoke of again.  That was the way of the seed, once someone left they were never to be spoken of again, and when it was time to destroy someone's ego/self worth/and humilate him/her, if you didn't not only participate but participate in an enthusiastic and convincing manner, you were in more trouble then the kid being focused on.  It wasn't unusual if you failed in your endeavor tthat they would  let the original kid sit down and then they would focus on you.  In this manner they always kept you off guard, suspicious, scared, uncertain...and most especially, unwilling to let your brain be filled with your thoughts...it had to contain Seed dogma at all times.  They also had everyone convinced that the Seed made you 'aware' and that staffers and Art barker  were so aware they could read your minds.  It was in a word, terrifying.

51
The Seed Discussion Forum / Brainwashing
« on: December 02, 2007, 11:15:50 PM »
"Some people say the seed practices brainwashing techniques.  I say your brain needed a little washing".

My father, to my sister and I while driving us to a oldcomer rap.



"Brainwashing, as a technique, has been used for centuries and
is no mystery to psychologists. In this sense, brainwashing means
involuntary re-education of basic beliefs and values."

Allen W. Dulles,  CIA director  in a forward memorandum to J Edgar Hoover dated 1956.

http://www.ncoic.com/brainwsh.htm


excerpts:



"There is no question that an individual can be broken psycholog-
ically by captors with knowledge and willingness to persist in tech-
niques aimed at deliberately destroying the integration of a personality. Although it is probable that everyone reduced to such a confused, disoriented state will respond to the introduction of new beliefs, this cannot be stated dogmatically.



PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN CONTROL AND REACTION TO CONTROL
There are progressive steps in exercising control over an individ-
ual and changing his behaviour and personality integration. The fol-
lowing five steps are typical of behaviour changes in any controlled
individual:
1. Making the individual aware of control is the first stage in
changing his behaviour...
comes to recognize the overwhelming powers of the state and the impersonal, "incarcerative" machinery in which he is enmeshed. The individual recognizes that definite limits have been put upon the ways he can respond.

2. Realization of his complete dependence upon the controll-
ing system is a major factor in the controlling of his behavior.The controlled adult is forced to accept the fact that food, tobacco,praise, and the only social contact that he will get come from the very interrogator who exercises control over him.

3. The awareness of control and recognition of dependence re-
sult in causing internal conflict and breakdown of previous patterns
of behaviour. Although this transition can be relatively mild in
the case of a child, it is almost invariably severe for the adult
undergoing brainwashing. Only an individual who holds his values
lightly can change them easily. Since the brainwasher-interrogators
aim to have the individuals undergo profound emotional change, they force their victims to seek out painfully what is desired by the
controlling individual. During this period the victim is likely to
have a mental breakdown characterized by delusions and hallucinations.
4. Discovery that there is an acceptable solution to his prob-
lem is the first stage of reducing the individual's conflict. It
is characteristically reported by victims of brainwashing that this
discovery led to an overwhelming feeling of relief that the horror
of internal conflict would cease and that perhaps they would not,
after all, be driven insane. It is at this point that they are pre-
pared to make major changes in their value-system. This is an
automatic rather than voluntary choice. They have lost their a-
bility to be critical.
5. Reintergration of values and identification with the cont-
rolling system is the final stage in changing the behaviour of the
controlled individual.


.......






"The most important aspect of the brainwashing process is the interrogation. The other pressures are designed primarily to help the interrogator achieve his goals. The following states are created systematically within the individual . These may vary in order, but all are necessary to the brainwashing process:

1. A feeling of helplessness in attempting to deal with the impersonal machinery of control.
2. An initial reaction of "surprise."
3. A feeling of uncertainty about what is required of him.
4. A developing feeling of dependence upon the interrogator .
5. A sense of doubt and loss of objectivity.
6. Feelings of guilt.
7. A questioning attitude toward his own value-system.
8. A feeling of potential "breakdown," i.e.,that he might go crazy.
9. A need to defend his acquired principles.
10. A final sense of "belonging" (identification)."

52
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: December 02, 2007, 10:50:29 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
did you go to cedu or rma?
you explain well.

if you can log in, i'll pm that to you. I am paranoid

Is there a paper trail linking Mel to synanon? Something irrefutable?

thank you


http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5144.shtml

this is right from the horse's ass, er..mouth.

53
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 30, 2007, 11:30:25 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
There are alot of great sites about straight and it's offshoots, but many fewer about CEDU. i wonder if that is becasue cedu was more damaging, in that people are more intimidated and stay confused about reality longer. There are still ceduites around, but you rarely see a pro striaghter.


You are wrong.  Pro seed/straight people are in existence. there are people who think all sorts of kooky things were good for them,


As bad as cedu was, I dont think the modality was nearly as harsh as being locked in a hot warehouse under guard,in florida from 10 to 10, with the temperature hovering over 100 degrees and being denied basic food,sleep, bathroom privelidges and being subjected to the humiliation of the game..seed style.  

There is/was a pro straight website in existence that pre dated fornits.  Go look on the seed discussion forum and you will see pro seed posts from the past. You can also find them archived from the very beginning on the straight site.

The reason the pro seed/straight people don't post is that they either get shouted down on the straight forum, or get the debate kicked out of them on the seed forum.   Don't think they don't read these forums, however...they do.

54
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 30, 2007, 05:00:44 PM »
If he did it didn't show up on his list of 'accomlishments'.

I sure would like to put this piece of the puzzle together as  it has been a minor annoyance of mine for years.

55
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 30, 2007, 05:00:25 PM »
If he did it didn't show up on his list of 'accomlishments'.

I sure would like to put this piece of the puzzle together as  it has been a minor annoyance of mine for years.

56
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 30, 2007, 01:53:11 PM »
well yes, we (Wes, ginger and I) long speculated that Art MAY have been involved with Daytop.  This is another one of the 'theories' I alluded to in an earlier post that we have held about just where the hell Art lurned himself those lock em up, break em down and yell at em modalities

Again, this is just another theory until someone comes forward and makes the hard connection. To this very moment in the history of the internet expose' of the program, the Seed/Straight et al connection to the synanon still remains speculation and an outright mystery. A mystery I might add, that I have been unable to solve.

57
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 30, 2007, 10:41:43 AM »
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""GregFL""
Quote from: ""Che Gookin""
Quote from: ""GregFL""
I would like to know how the Seed got placed in direct lineage with Phoenix house in that chart.  That isn't right!

Try Another Castle reported that an ex-boyfriend of his knew of a Phoenix House that was chock full of ex-synonanite douche bags working as staff members. Can't recollect where I saw this statement but I think it probably is buried on the Synonan forum somewhere.

the problem is the connection has not been made.  No one *knows*, at least no one is talking, about where Art Barker acquired the synanon techniques.  therefore, the entire seed/straight/kids/SAFE/et al lineage remains directly unconnected to the synanon and synanon spinoffs.

I say directly because it is obvious some of the synanon techniques showed up at the seed and then at the seed spinoffs (straight et al). So, indirectly..yes we know they were acquired. *HOW* is the missing link.

 The chart shows a direct connection which is speculative at best, misleading at worst.


Nope, he never worked at phoenix, but he did interview when he moved up to new york. (not the brightest bulb) What he worked at was walden house in san francisco, another synanon started rehab. It even says it on George Farnsworth's site on the front page. www.synanon.org. Both places came right out of there, and he said that the staff there talked about synanon all the time.

.


We KNOW Cedu and Phoenix house have direct linkage to Synanon.  That is not in dispute.  

What I have been trying to do unsuccessfully for 7 years is connect Art Barker to the Syananon or a synanon spinoff and I have been unable to do so.

Who are you saying worked at Walden house?

58
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 29, 2007, 10:09:08 PM »
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
So you're basically asking for evidence of a tangible paper trail right?




Paper trail, a witness that knows where Art Barker received his Synanon training, or any other credible evidence linking Art back to the synanon. Art Claimed in the press that he had 13 years working with juveniles and alcoholics..but no one will say where.  Given Artie's penchant for bullshit and self promotion no one even knows if it was true.  

The hard connection from the synanon to the Seed, and then to the Seed spinoffs like Straight, Inc. has NEVER been made.  We from the early days of this 'movement' have tried but the connection is still only circumstantial.

I personally have tried. I have researched, interviewed former staff, disquised myself as a former syanonite and infiltrated their web forum and posed the question and no one remembers Art.

So if Art got direct synanon training I believe it was in a Syanonon spinoff.  There are other theories that Ginger and I have kicked around. One of them that seems credible is this:

When Art started getting federal funding the person in charge of the federal grant, Robert Dupont, had a connection back to the synanon.  Also, around this time the Seed drastically changed into a lock down synanon style 'rehab'.  When Art started getting his funding pulled, the seed started morphing back into the less harsh but  always wacky personality cult.  The harsh days of the Seed lasted roughly from 1972 to 1977, with the real harsh times being 72,73,74...interestingly the exact years of the involvement with Dupont.  In later years under oath Dupont said that "it all started at the synanon". This is intriquing, No?

The theory basically developed by Ginger and I bantering around ideas is that Dupont, upon Granting Art Barker funds, also sent some Synonite staff member to help him 'develop' his program. Before this the Seed was located in a house, and people came and went as they pleased. Imagine that!  

 I was theres  in the early days (1973) after the voluntary seed during its heyday   and remember some older, harsher staffers that didn't seem to have come up thru the ranks like all the other staff members. I distincly remember one of them with a new york accent telling us about some other place that 'this all came from' and that we 'had no idea'. This was in a day rap during my first 14 days, but I can't remember the name of the place as this was Some 35 years ago.

So, that is the Theory. There are no hard facts.  That chart needs to be, at least, show a broken line down to the Seed along with a notation.  The Seed, to the best of my knowledge was not decended from Phoenix house.  Of course, it is possible that Art was connected to PH, but this is unsubstantiated and to date I have not even seen anybody claim it to be even rumoured to be true.

hope this helps or in some way is interesting to whomever had to drudge thru it.

59
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 29, 2007, 05:28:39 PM »
Quote from: ""Che Gookin""
Quote from: ""GregFL""
I would like to know how the Seed got placed in direct lineage with Phoenix house in that chart.  That isn't right!

Try Another Castle reported that an ex-boyfriend of his knew of a Phoenix House that was chock full of ex-synonanite douche bags working as staff members. Can't recollect where I saw this statement but I think it probably is buried on the Synonan forum somewhere.


the problem is the connection has not been made.  No one *knows*, at least no one is talking, about where Art Barker acquired the synanon techniques.  therefore, the entire seed/straight/kids/SAFE/et al lineage remains directly unconnected to the synanon and synanon spinoffs.

I say directly because it is obvious some of the synanon techniques showed up at the seed and then at the seed spinoffs (straight et al). So, indirectly..yes we know they were acquired. *HOW* is the missing link.

 The chart shows a direct connection which is speculative at best, misleading at worst.

60
The Troubled Teen Industry / synanon cedu and the seed
« on: November 28, 2007, 09:59:35 PM »
I would like to know how the Seed got placed in direct lineage with Phoenix house in that chart.  That isn't right!

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