Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Elan School => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 04, 2002, 04:56:00 AM
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I wonder... was it to teach other people a lesson...or was it more for staffs benefit....so they could see who the really strong people were...the people who would actually pose more of a threat... not the ones getting their ass kicked in the ring....but the ones doing the ass-kicking...
i went in the ring....i'll never forget it as long as i live.................
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I hated the ring. I never went in it, nor volenteered. I don't understand how everyone could keep cheering on the line of people who would go against that one guy. It was totally wrong, and how it was ever allowed in the first place legally or any other way is totally beyond me.
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In 1982, at Elan 7, I had a friend die after going into the ring. It was always a no win situation, putting new people in to "modify" the behavior of 1 individual. I think, like most things there, it was used as a deterrant. Another cheap ploy to get people to submit. Only in this case it wasn't cheap, a 16 year old died......
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
--Edmund Burke
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In 1982, at Elan 7, I had a friend die after going into the ring. It was always a no win situation, putting new people in to "modify" the behavior of 1 individual. I think, like most things there, it was used as a deterrant. Another cheap ploy to get people to submit. Only in this case it wasn't cheap, a 16 year old died......
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
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Dave
Could you tell this board a little more about this incident . Who was running the ring ,which director(s) were present ,etc,etc.
On a personal level I am appalled at this incident . A state investigation at that time was certaintly warranteed .Did ONE happen .What in the hell happened!?
elan has got some really dirty little secrets,obviously this is one of them
Shame on the state of Maine ,shame on elan .
Best wishes to you Dave .
Matt
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ya the ring ,, how many rounds did j. deegan go,, 23??and tell me honestly, how many women were givin chest protectors???it was a way to find out whose dangerous,, and also just another tool to break you...i wasnt there when that guy died,, but i remember the house beat 1 person till he projectile vomited across the dining room,,,then 1 more round for that...alice dunn is a sick cunt :evil: :evil:
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So very interesting.
Are you Elan survivors aware that Art Barker instituted the ring at The Seed Cincinatti and Ft Lauderdale but not at other locations?
If you don't know, Art Barker is the grandaddy of the entire Seed/straight/Kids/safe line of treatment centers.
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
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So very interesting.
Are you Elan survivors aware that Art Barker instituted the ring at The Seed Cincinatti and Ft Lauderdale but not at other locations?
If you don't know, Art Barker is the grandaddy of the entire Seed/straight/Kids/safe line of treatment centers.
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil ---in its worst state an
intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same
miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without
government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we
furnish the means by which we suffer!
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
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Sorry it's taken me awhile to reply, not online that much anymore.
The incident I'm reffering to happened during the Christmas holidays in 1982. The resident who died was Phil Williams, a 16 year old from the state of Maine. Unfortunatly, Phil was a ward of the state, because his father was in jail for killing his mother. Phil was a Coordinator Trainee, and started complaining of having headaches. The staff felt that he was malingering, and doin this just so he didn't have to deal with the book (ie. give haircuts). This esculated to the point where he was GM'd and put in the ring for reacting during GM.(for those that thought the ring was only used for people who were violent, think again)After going 3 rounds, I think, hard to remember after over 20 years, Phil went unconscious and started vomitting profusely. After laying on the floor for around an hour,The "Staff" decided he should be brought to hospital. As for who these staff were, I'm sorry, but I cannot remember. It was a weekend and the regular house staff were not there, that much I remember. For what Director, there 'prolly wasn't one there.It was common practice that GM and Rings to be held with just whatever staff was on duty, no director required.
The following Monday, that hack of a nurse they had, came in to tell the house that what Phil died from was an enbolism and that he 'prolly would have died anyways, regardless of the ring (pretty convienent for Elan, I imagine)
Myself, 2 other residents and a staff member did go to his funeral. I'm glad Elan showed this amount of respect.
As for an investigation, I doubt there even was one. Noone ever came to house in an official capacity and asked questions of the residents. This is most likely due to he had no family to push the issue.
I would like to think that if Phil had recieved proper madical treatment prior to being in the ring, maybe he would have been ok. But this is something I'll never know.Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
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give up Matt you will never be able to prove a thing................... is just how it is
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dont ever give up matt, one way or another "it all comes out in the wash" personally i cant wait til the spin cycle starts :wave:
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i still have nitemares and daymares no less about the ring..........1st time i was in it i was 13 years old against sally b, she said that i hit her when she was trying to put makeup on me for a costume, as i remember it, i tried to brush her hand away from my face, but oh well, i remember that i would fight back and when i was pushed or knocked outside the ring, people would push me back in and i heard people say quit fighting cause if you quit fighting it will end but if you fight it will keep going......
Another time i was in the ring wendy w broke my nose in the elan 3 dining room, it was a 3 or four house gm, i can't remember which, i cant remember if i went more rounds with somebody else or not but i know when the blood started coming out my nose she stopped fighting and started crying........
Another time, i was put in the ring with andrea r, she went on a visit with me with either my mom or my dad, im thinkin my dad tho, she came back and told them that i acted like a spoiled brat another 3 house gm, i dont remember specifics, but my dad and me talked about it like last year and he told me that as far as he remembered she was the one acting like the spoiled brat........
Another time i was in elan four, im not sure why i got put in the ring this time but i think it was because i was making people chase me around the compound outside (i was a corner person then) and i pissed some people off, so anyway i know i went like at least five rounds, robin w, karen q, dawn m,maryjane h,and judy h i think,sandy n, i know i went rounds with a couple of them at least twice and when no more girls wanted to fight they threatened to put mark r in with me, i talked to him a couple years ago and he told me that he still remembers that and that he was like no way am i going in with a girl....i remember jeff g kept asking me why i was so mad and it was almost like he was getting a kick out of it.....
people say that the ring was for bullies and for people who physically hurt others there, i know i was in the ring more times than i can remember, but these instances here specifically, unless im wrong i dont think i was bullying anyone or hurting anyone physically......and i always thought it was particularly cruel how some people just curled up and they still got the crap beat out of them, or told that they were a piece of shit, no wonder so many people have comitted suicide, gotten into drugs or just plain wanted to stop living.......but what the hell its all in the name of treatment
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i pissed some people off, so anyway i know i went like at least five rounds, robin w, karen q, dawn m,maryjane h,and judy h i think,sandy n, i know i went rounds with a couple of them at least twice and when no more girls wanted to fight
LOL!!, Jackie, you fought all those chicks in one straight run?
:nworthy:
Paul
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I was in the corner for refusing to cooperate as a shotdown.I was determined not to accept being shotdown because someone admitted to some bogus guilt that they so da with me.Anyway Rosenberg was the director of our house and saw to it that my s.p.'s were people i did not get along with nor did i like.
After about a week of sitting in the corner i was fed up with having these people sit with me so i acted out like any other corner person, messing up the office and tearing down production.I was placed in restraints for my actions only to come out and do it all over again.
Finally a general meeting ring was called and I was chosen to be placed in the ring with another student that was sure to dominate me.At this point he was putting on the gloves and I was told to put on mine and if i refused they would force me to put them on.I know I had one shot and opportunity to express my hostility towards Rosenberg so without any thought or emtion I stood up and sung with everything I had and hit Marc right in the face, I cold clocked him and he went down and out.I was emmidiatly restained by several students and taken back to the coordinators office to sit in the corner.
I hit Marc so hard that they had to call the nurse over to revive him, they helped marc walk over to the nurses office and I laughed my ass off at him, calling him all sort of names.
Later that day a three house gm was called and they gave me this huge g.m., Joe Ricci also attended and said if i ever were to lay my hand on anyone again that I would be thrown out and sent to jeuvinal detetion.
Months later down the road I started to do what
I had to do so I could get ouit of there, Marc never fucked with me again and had said not more then 10 words to me for my last remaining time there.
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LMFAO!
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Hey what could I say, Marc had what was coming to him.I wished now I would've punched him in the nose and broke it, shit I didn't even give him much of a black eye because my fidt contacted his jaw, he was bruised up for a week by his mouth though.
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i only went in to pummel not to be.... they sent me in w/ this one kid i fukd hiz world up (being the fourth he was pretty spent) but what a stress reliever man so much pent up agression in there. i just kept imagining it was gotlieb i was smashing....
SyN
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i just kept imagining it was gotlieb i was smashing....
I would guess that they like when you do that.
as I have said many times before, " Sick Fucks!"
Paul
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Let me see if I got this right .
Phil ,a ward of the state of maine. In the states infinite wisdom sticks Phil in elan . elan does not render medical aid when Phil is having serious head aches . What elan does is put Phil in the ring . Phil gets beaten on and finally collapses . Does elan give Phil aid then or do they just let him lie there !?
Phil dies . The quack of a nurse tells everyone that Phil died from an anuerysm (a blood vessel that has ruptured,not from being put in the ring .
this quack of a nurse had to be liscened by the state of maine . The state of maine put Phil in elan . Phil dies in elan. Does anyone think that there is something really rotten in the state of maine besides elan ? Better yet could the state of maine really do a fair investigation of Phils death ? After all Phil is a ward of the state of maine .
Shame shame on the state of maine for not having convictions to do a fair investigation on Phils death and that explains why that vacationland state can't seem to be able to do an investigation based on the many complaints that their states att. general has recieved .
the state of maine has some explaining to do !!!!
After all elan was generating a lot of revenue in taxes
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what th fuk??? r u serious?? when was this?
SyN
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Syn I believe that this tragic incident took place around Christmas time in 1982 according to what has been posted on this thread . If Dave Betz is still around I believe he could give you some more info .
The really sad thing is that Phil did not have anyone on the outside for him due to his circumstances . just the state o Maine
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just kicking this back up .cause I think that if everyone reads all the sub topics in this thread. From begining to end you might too feel that this is somewhat important . In my opinion elan should have been closed then ,when this act occured .
a lot of you would not have had to suffer thru elan if it had been , and those directors would be eating a lot of hersey bars in prison.
thats just a fact, child abusers tend to get a little more attention in prison ,as well as they should.
they (the directors) use to use that hersey bar reference quite a bit when I was there ,therfore they would most definately know what I am talking about. the old hersey bar under the pillow deal .just another form of putting fear into the residents
Matt
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does any body know if Bill diamond was sec of State for Maine during this incident . Could explain a lot
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hey all remember What goes around comes around and its all coming around on you mother fucker.I'll never forget that as long as I live!graduated in 1976. guess its all coming out in the wash marty! ha ha sick fuck!
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Matt so true! and protrolium jelly any one wants some. hersy bar. how sick. my stomack is turning.the ring I went in it and just put the cloves over my head and got my ass kicked it was faster that way.blows my mind all the sick ,so called learning exsperences. I was there in 74
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Elan is not the only horrible fate for kids taken into state custody. It's getting more and more common to hear of kids taken from their families, with or without some halfway understandable reason, and placed in homes where they are sexually and otherwise abused.
Florida has been making headlines just lately. Guess it's time for another new name for HRS and a reshuffling and redoubling of child snatchers and assistant child snatchers and child snatching case organizers and such, huh? But really, it happens all the time. When a kid is allegedly hurt at home, CPS investigates. In school, first the school then, maybe, CPS. When a child is killed or hurt in CPS custody, CPS investigates itself. It has always been thus.
Have you noticed that, more often than not, when you look at those junk mail flyers of a missing kid last seen with an adult, it's almost always a relative of the right age to be a parent? Maybe they have a better reason for taking off with the kid than the state has for trying to stop them. So, next time you see one of those publis service announcemnts admonishing you to call a child abuse hotline if you merely suspect abuse, think twice. What could you do directly to actually help give a kid in trouble a break?
As far as I know, Florida still places wards of the state at Stop Camp and/or Eckard Camp for boys.
When an innocent Californian millionaire gets killed by a drug squad
trying to seize his house with a bogus search warrant, people better ask themselves if they really want to turn their cops into money-makers.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder
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does anyone know when elan stopped using the ring?
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Elan still uses the ring, they have it deep in the woods away from the media.
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The ring ended in the fall of 2000. I was a resident at elan 8 at the time, I was one of the last people to go in the ring. Although many of you disagree I fell it was probably one of the more productive things at Elan. I personally learned that there are real consequences for my actions. I know this may not be the popular opinion aroud here, but I think the students of Elan would be better off if it was still in concept.
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Becca, serious question.
In Straight, we didn't have the ring exactly like they had at Elan. But we had very similar practices. We had what, in later days, was euphemistically termed 'restraint'. In my day (`80 - `82) they just called it getting sat on, which is essentially what happened. They (well, we who didn't want to go a round on the floor ourselves) told parents and anyone else that the only reason anyone ever got sat on was to restrain them from assaulting others or hurting themselves. (carving was a popular passtime in group at Straight)
The truth, though, was that you could get sat on for refusing to "get honest" (renounce yourself, confess to an accusation... whatever) or for making a run for the door.
Most of the assaults for which people got restrained started out with the allegedly dangerous and violent subject being pushed, hit, prodded and physically made to do things like sit ups or that bizarre ritual that we called 'motivating' (flapping your whole upper body as hard as you could to show how gosh darned motivated you were to get called on to speak) If a defiant newcomer (shot down) refused to do these things, the kids nearest them would grab hold of their arms and legs and simply put the other kid's body through the motions.
Once you were down on the floor with 4 or 5 other kids sitting on your limbs and stomach, very often that was there chance to take out a little pent up agression on you. Sometimes they'd have fun covering the sittee's (yeah, that's really what we called them) mouth and nose till they panicked, which, of course, would draw a response to justify a few good punches or the (usually heavy set) girl on your stomach to bounce a few times.
None the less, the stock response to people who expressed through word or deed that they did not like being sat on was this, "You did the necessary things to get sat on!"
I never saw it this way at all. These were artificial consequences used to control behaviors that, in the real world, would certainly not have drawn anything close to these contrived consequences.
Never the less, by the time I got out after two years, my confused little concience wouldn't allow me to testify against the people who'd held me down and beat on my like that for two hours for calmly refusing to apologize to Group for having run away. "Get honest!" was the angry demand. But, honestly, I wasn't sorry. I was being honest by the traditional definition. And yet I also knew what would happen if I continued to refuse. So, in Program (Concept) sense, it was my fault, right?
Took me longer than the statute of limitations to sort that one out.
Do you really think going in the ring was a natural, fair and even handed consequence for the kinds of actions for which Elan used it? I'm not going for a 'gotchya' here. I just want to compare notes.
On 2003-10-31 10:31:00, Becca wrote:
"The ring ended in the fall of 2000. I was a resident at elan 8 at the time, I was one of the last people to go in the ring. Although many of you disagree I fell it was probably one of the more productive things at Elan. I personally learned that there are real consequences for my actions. I know this may not be the popular opinion aroud here, but I think the students of Elan would be better off if it was still in concept."
Speak gently! 't is a little thing Dropp'd in the heart's deep well; The good, the joy, that it may bring Eternity shall tell.
-- G. W. Langford: Speak gently.
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On 2003-10-31 10:31:00, Becca wrote:
"The ring ended in the fall of 2000. I was a resident at elan 8 at the time, I was one of the last people to go in the ring. Although many of you disagree I fell it was probably one of the more productive things at Elan. I personally learned that there are real consequences for my actions. I know this may not be the popular opinion aroud here, but I think the students of Elan would be better off if it was still in concept."
Becca,
You are probably not gonna hear what I am saying, but there already are real consequences for your your actions. That is the fact of the matter. What we have here is people getting the way of the natural cause and effect relationship of the world. I am sure that you think that you have learned something. You probably think that you have learned discipline, but that is false. Discipline is an inner matter. iT's source is the self. Disciplne comes from going for what we want.. not avoiding what we do not want.
Back in the day, Gypsies, use to put children into weird shaped vases and such, and let them grow within these shapes, throughout their life, so that when thye came out, they looked the way, that the people who had put them into them wished. The use of the ring and other fear tactics, is the same thing.. It is molding a person.. It goes on the idea, that a person is no good as they are, and must be beaten or brought to submission by another.
Also, as far as it being productive, recieving harm to one's being is the most counter-productive thing in the universe. Productivity is measured by the amount of benefit or health brought to the individual. We have no other reference point.. we need no other reference point, but the conscious individual. Beating the "image" out of a person is extremely counter-productive, and nobody wins.
You may not like what I have written, but it happens to be true.
Paul St. JOhn
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I have heard the ring was different back when Elan was newer, but when I was there it was very only for very extreme cases. A student would generally get more warnings than could be counted. They would have to have shown extreme physical violence and not responded at all to the warnings.
The ring was litterally a boxing ring. Students would be fully padded in the same height/weight class and have to follow boxing guidelines.
Unless the student receiving the ring refused to commit to stop their violent behavior the ring would never last more than 3 minutes. Mine lasted 28 seconds.
I hope this clears it up for you.
Becca
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Becca, I believe folks who say Elan has changed a lot since the bad old days. Not only are there a whole lot of people who saw it then and now, there are even a few who were around for various transitions. That's a good thing! I know pretty much what it was like for my brothers and sisters in The Seed and I wouldn't wish Straight on them.
A lot of the other programs have changed significantly as well, most of them for the better. I think most of the worst ones that let things get way, way out of hand pretty much fall apart because of it. Only some few with very skillfully manipulaive leaders seem to be able to hide the more outrageous practices for long. Miller Newton, for example. Took from the mid `70's till just the last 3 years or so to shut him down.
But I'm not convinced that everything has changed or that they're not still using some very potent and dangerous slight of mind. Some things about Elan concern me very much. A few people who I find very credible tell consistent stories about Marty and Joe. They're not talking just about the ring and making people think they were going to die or the rapes, but that these boys enjoyed this type of thing very much. And I know a few people personally who never were physically harmed, but who were deeply hurt psychologically by the mind games.
I'm glad they reeled in the more outrageous uses of the ring. If it was just as you perceived it when you were there, it actuallys sounds like a perfectly sensible and safe practice.
But you didn't address my primary concern in your response. Like I said, the only time I ever got the end-all physical punishment was when I refused to say what I was told to say. And I'd seen plenty of people just tormented till they lost their temper, as any reasonable person might do under similar circumstances, and then get the treatment for it.
What types of infractions would get someone put in the ring to begin with?
Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton
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Thanks, Art.
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I think the ring was good for one reason only. You could back your words up in the ring. I have no problem with the ring because of all those trash talkin violent kids that were there in my time. It gave them a chance to show that either they were or weren't badasses like they talked. I allways root for the bad guy and i saw many good rounds in my stay. 16 oz gloves and mouth n head gear, i dont know how many of you box but its pretty much a pillow fight. Yes physical violence is bad in most cases but you also need to back up your words in life, and sometimes that will lead to gettin down n dirty.
I allways wanted the "bad" kid to win, show everyone whats up, and i think the ring was the start of the riot that took place, and hey what the fuk ever the school learned what the kids were all about. For those of you that werent in elan you gotta understand that it was a cyclone of crazyness with or without the ring. And most of us wanted to see pure anarchy when we were there, it was the only way i could still feel human, and unprogrammed.
thats only my oppinion so dont jump down my fukn throat about it.
SyN
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win,,,lol. way back when dinosours ruled the earth, it was never a question of winning. if you were put in against the house,, they kept goin,, and goin, and going.usually till you couldnt even hold you arms up,, the best u could hope was the crouch and cover,,and they tire themselves and then maybe get a good shot in..
but then u went another round,,,pillow fight? if by that u mean put a 1 pound weight in a pillow,, wind up and clocked some one in the side,, ok,and as far as the women went,, our house didnt have a chest protector,,but that didnt stop staff from putting them in anyway. if there was nobody bigger in the house,, they would import 3 or 4 from other houses.. the only way a guy i saw "win" was to punch jim lehman in the nose before he got the gloves on him.. this being the legendary nose he got broke in prison as he would tell us constantly.. my, my, how he paid ,,but what a hoot :silly:
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Ken Z always wore a chest protector when he fought in the ring.Ken use to drip hot candle wax on his nipple's in the dorm so his chest was always sore, elan got him a chest protector so he wouldn't get injured.
It is also to be said that Ken would masterbate before going into the ring this way he didnt have a loaded gun on him and wouldn't come on to the victum he was boxing.one time Ken forgot to masterbate before going into the ring and made several passes at the victum before grabbing his balls and sucking on them.
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I felt humiliated in the ring. I't wasn't scared I felt. I felted dogged! Yeah that's the feeling! I went in for reacting to comment's made about my dad,eye or body movement's got you put in the ring and I remember the house loved it.Back then You didn't have to be violent to go in.Hey I would be angry after being held down over two chairs and have my ass out there for a free for all, yeah I think I was feeling very angry. I wasn't going to stand at attention after that abuse.Over the chairs I would go again. Marty you must have got off watching that bondage and the helplessness of all. The Ring was an act of violence pure and simple!or maybe something more.
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This is all so interesting (except of course the few who respond with childish statements).
The thing that interests me the most is the connection that the ring has with the seed. I am the moderator of the Seed discussion forum and was in the Seed St. Pete in 1973.
Some of you may know that the Seed was founded in 1970 as a juvenile drug abuse center in Florida, far away from Elan. However, The Seed used many similar techniques and thought reform tactics as Elan did.
Here is the clincher. The seed opened a branch in Ohio that Used the ring. The other branches did not to my knowledge. A friend who experienced the ring in the seed described it as terrifying and said art barker really got off on it.
So, my question is this, and I don't think the answer is here. There is obviously a thread tying all these programs together. What was it and why did Art Barker all of a sudden start using "the ring" in 1973? I don't think these places spontaneously thought this brutal shit up on their own....
There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir
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hmm ,, i always thought was a tree,, synanon begat daytop and the seed,, elan sprong from daytop and straight sprung from the seed,,ya kno,, teach a man to control his mind and you save his life,, teach a man how to control other minds and he goes off and starts his own theraputic community. im positive you can follow the trail to the recent place in the news ,, in south america,, that got closed for abuse
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unfortunately you can't. Art barker has disavowed any connection to the synanon. I have been trying unsucessfully to link him....
There are just two many similarities between these programs...including the topic of this thread "the ring".
We need cops.
We can't live without 'em.
But they need to start working for us....
That's no longer an option.
They've pushed it.
They've gone to far.
They've just gone to far.
Tom Crosslin
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you all had the ring in other programs ?
which other programs used the ring ?
Did any one die in the ring like what happened to Phil, in those other programs .
Blows my mind a weakened blood vessels in the brain (anuerysm) can be made to rupture from a blow to to the head .
It seems that a person experiencing an anuerysm also experiences serious headaches . In my opinion it seems that elan thought that instead of giving medical assistance ,it instead thought it could beat those headaches right out of Phils
head .
Maybe some one should "ask a nurse "if this is the prefered method of treatment for headaches . Or if ther is another more accepted and humane form of treatment ? Like going to see a doctor .
Just wordering and also wondering if this is how your kid could be treated ,why as a parent would you subject them to this kinda lunacy . Ah my bad it was the state o Maine that was Phils guardians .
Maybe some one should ask the medical association of the state of
maine if this is the prefered and optimum treatment plan for kids with severe headaches .
I must say it does go against any thing I was taught (in college in my anatomy and physiology class) maybe it was something taught on a day tha I missed. I did get a B in that class though!
Matt
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I have never been in a ring, but I have seen plenty. I was there in 1996 to 1999, so the ring was not used unless people were violent, and when the staff didn't like a student, they would invoke that destruction of Elan property would call for a ring. There was one case: one kid spit on walls. he weighed about 140 lbs, and was put in with a guy who weighed about 200, who broke his nose. They even violated their own rules, and many students were appalled. I think this incident turned a lot of students against the program.
Many of the other students were less sympathetic cases
There was a young Jewish boy from Canada (his parents are rich, so I don't want to get sued) who was always in the corner, Coz was on his SP, he's the kid who jerked off on people. The strength in his ring obviously enjoyed themselves, because they were on his SP a lot. There were some violent female corner people, but I was not allowed to be on their SPs because the staff thought I was too short-tempered. One time I almost beat up Jenn Ferro, but someone came between us before any punches were thrown.
I avoided violence there only to stay out of the ring, but that doesn't mean that I would avoid violence with the people I have in mind out in the real world, fortunately for them, they do not live in New England. I found out that my parents were lied to about the ring; at least my father was. I think my mother would have signed for a ring if it was necessary, Elan mainly dealt with her because they had brainwashed her more successfully than most of the students. She was commenting to him about all the Jaguars that the staff had, and she didn't see a problem with it, but he did. That was about the time that he wanted me out, but the staff had brainwashed my mother into thinking that he was insane, so I stayed there longer, about a year and a half longer. Elan would have encouraged my mother to divorce my father if it would have helped them keep me there longer, there is nothing they won't do for more money.
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The whole idea of the ring sounds absuive but it really wasn't.They would make you wear these big huge gloves that really didn't do any damage to anyone.It was like hitting someone with a pillow followed by some weight to it.I never seen anyone get hurt, but I'm sure there was people that got hurt,I just didn't think it really hurt when someone hit you with those huge gloves on.
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It was you idiot, what about that kid who got his nose broken?
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74 to 76 I saw many people go in the ring . As residents we were told that the only way you would be put in to the ring is if you broke the cardnal rule of no physical violence of any kind .
Yet as one became more aware of what was going on in the place you quickly came to realize that the ring was used at the whim of the directors .
I saw noses broken and people hurt ,it was a sick and violent way to treat people .
And no it does not surprise me that someone with an anuerysm died in the ring .It does surprise me that someone dies in the ring and elan remains unscathed .
Something smells very rotten in the state o maine and it smells like death .
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The whole idea of the ring sounds absuive but it really wasn't.They would make you wear these big huge gloves that really didn't do any damage to anyone.It was like hitting someone with a pillow followed by some weight to it.I never seen anyone get hurt, but I'm sure there was people that got hurt,I just didn't think it really hurt when someone hit you with those huge gloves on.......................
sounds like it was abusive but wasnt??? my mind warbles at the possibilty that someone could actually think that ,, unless of course your staff or just a plant..i wont regress to calling you names,,if youve never seen welts left from a 1 pound glove i guess u can consider yourself lucky. i guess by that reasoning it wasnt abusive to step on peoples neck , keeping there face in the corner,it didnt really hurt them. so what if they were made to piss themselves,, its just a lille piss.and the residents{im mostly refering to women} who were forced to divulge extremely personal incidents ,, then be made to wear a sign that does nuthin but belittle and degrade even further?the worst 1 i saw was "please ask me how i feel about having to have sex with my mother at gunpoint"i mean cmon,, staff had no real clue,, and were sick ,, twisted fucks,, as well as completely without imagination,, unless was leaning towards depravety..but its ok,, it only looks real bad
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On 2003-12-14 00:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"my mind warbles at the possibilty that someone could actually think that ,, unless of course your staff or just a plant"
Or just hasn't got it all sorted out yet. When I first got out, HRS (Florida's CPS agency in those days) was investigating Straight and wanted me to testify. I couldn't say I was abused because, at the time, I didn't view it that way. The one time I got sat on, I viewed it as my choice and it didn't bother me. They'd ask if I ever saw anyone get sat on and I'd say "Well yes, but they were misbehaving."
The group was very much like family to me. Family I didn't particularly want to ever see again, but family none the less. I didn't want to hurt them and I had, after all, agreed to everything at every step along the way. And there was the confidentiality thing. Then there was the problem of people just not understanding.
Do I testify that Robin Peele was the staff in group that after noon when I got sat on? Why would I do that? She didn't order it and she sent the girl back to group who had covered my mouth and nose. I thought she was being very reasonable and kind. I still believe she and the other staff thought they were doing the right thing. They probably don't believe that these days any more than I do.
I couldn't explain to anyone why I was so desperate to get out when I did. It didn't even make sense to me. It was only a couple more months till I turned 18, I was on the highest phase already. Any Friday then, I was sure they were going to graduate me. But I just had to get the hell out, get away, clear my head RIGHT THEN!!It took awhile.
The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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On 2003-10-31 10:31:00, Becca wrote:
"The ring ended in the fall of 2000. I was a resident at elan 8 at the time, I was one of the last people to go in the ring. Although many of you disagree I fell it was probably one of the more productive things at Elan. I personally learned that there are real consequences for my actions. I know this may not be the popular opinion aroud here, but I think the students of Elan would be better off if it was still in concept."
You are a moron. There are plently of ways to learn that there are consequences for your actions, I'm sure you also had a GM. And maybe if there was no ring, people like Jenn Ferro and Jodie Stilson would have acted differently, because people like me would have pounded the living shit out of them without having to worry about the ring.
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Oh, and another thing, Becca. THE RING IS PROBABLY ILLEGAL.
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i dont think it was.. i say this cause i was in so many and i know every time they always called the parents or guardian( be it the state or parents i dont know.) to clear the ring with them and recorded such clearings on audio tape. I pummeled and was pummeled. As far as i see it, that was nothing compared to the old school. talk to jackie or matt or art, they will tell you shit where your glad that was the farthest they could go in the 90's. give me 16 oz gloves head gear and a mouth guard any day compared to the old school fukd up shit any day. Much respect to the old school survivors.!
SyN
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I must say I was totally against the ring but I didnt mind it when Pete Rowe said I could be in it to kick the shit out of someone much better than any enc grp
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I went in the ring once (to fight the offender, not because I did anything wrong). Looking back, I think it was rather pointless. Someone could get hurt and and I saw one person vomit all over the floor after going in the ring. That can't be healthy. Of course they made him keep standing and take the GM.
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I feel sorry for the shotdown that had to clean up the vomit.
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One time Marc Rosenberg ordered this student to go into the ring because he acted out in the corner and ripped down production.When the ring was formed the student asked Marc to go round and round with him in the ring, Marc chickened out and made up excuses.Anyway the corner person kicked the shit out of the hero and suckered punched Rosenberg and Marc fell on his ass.Another student was placed in the ring with him and also lost to him.Jeff broke the ring up and continued with the GM.
That day the corner person Tom was his name, prevailed and got the best of elan.I was his S.P. at the time and was cheering him on from the begining.Gottlieb confronted me as to why I stood by his side and I said, Jeff this is the United States of America, I can support any one I want to.Jeff shook his head and walked away.What was elan gonna do? Take away my constitional rights?
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So when did Elan get rid of the ring? Was it because someone finally got hurt and elan decided not to use it anymore?
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State cracked down and made them get rid of it. They would never have done anything on their own.
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How did the ring last as long as it did? It's so brutal and horrifying. God I hated elan so much I wish it would burn to the ground. I also wish I could drop a bomb on Marc Rosenburgs house.
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They still do the ring at Elan right? God I saw so many when I was there,. I hated them!
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wow! is that really true! u had to see a shotdown cleanup vomit from someone else????????? OMG thats sick...what yr were u there?
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I saw that happen. And I saw somone pass out in a gm and knock down the x mas tree.
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Jimy
I am amazed still at this incident with Phill.
As you say jimy what a sad life .Would you be able to tell us a little bit more about what happened to Phill , after all you have stated on another thread that you went in the ring with him and were with him when he died.
Thats the least you can do for Phill
Matt
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hi dave maybe i can help out here phil was a big boy i went in the ring that day it didnt hurt phically with 16 ounce gloves maybe my pride. i was also with him by myself in another room with him when he first went into a coma remember we had no power and we where all in the dinning room. thats when phil got a bad headache so i was sent to a office with him.thats when it happen.he was a good freind. his mother wasnt dead but had been in a coma for 7 years. father prison for hiring someone to do it.poor kid
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Jim,
If you talk to Clare, ask her why I couldn't visit Elan in 2002 when I went rafting in Maine. I'm not mad or anything, I just wish she'd gotten back to me. For the most part, I like Clare. Don't agree with her on everything, but she's a nice person.
Hope Nicole and Jesse (that's your son's name, right?) are doing well.
Pete
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becca good for u we all payed for what we were doing but some of these babies let it hurt them for there entirer life .if i got violent i deserve what i got so they yelled in my face or put a sign on boy that hurt there just a BUNCH OF FUCKED UP LITTLE BABIES. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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:eek: :eek: :eek:
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So many sights for Elan, I wish there was just one to gather everyone and everything together.
The ring was very much in effect when I was there. I remember this Kid Joe wanted so bad to go on his trip so he could "split" he worked hard to get to "strength" after months of being shotdown. Problem was the kid couldn't keep his mouth shut (something you need to learn at Elan, or at least who you can talk to. Tanya Merette found out and called a house in the dinning room, but didnt say GM. She called Joe up and had myself( I think I was Cheif at the time) and several other males stand around him. I heard Joe mumble something about how he better not lose his job. Tania atarted ripping into him, yelling and then she shot him down, blowing his trip and his chance at freedom. Then Joe mumbled something under his breath. I am not sure what Tanya was thinking, but she got real close and said "what did you say". Then Joe knocked her one. I mean, he really laid into her. Blood was everywhere. Me and Nick D. (God bless his soul, he just passed away) and Elliot Free began kicking the crap outta him, and the staff sort of let us do it.
Joe was put into the corner. Tanya was out for a while ( I am not sure ow long) but she came bac one day, nose all bandaged up and we had a three house GM/Ring. Resident after resident was put into the ring to pummel tis kid Joe. I know exactly how many it was because I wa #6, and he was knocked out right before me. I actually had the gloves on, but they couldnt get him up.
After that he was put in a room with an SP. Things got worse. in 91/92 there were still a lot of inner city kids at Elan, and a few were accused of forming there own gang. I remember Maria ( God bless her kind soul) confronting Danny Cooper, and Danny going after her, which ignited the second riot I had seen at Elan so far. Im talking 40 kids going at it, chairs being broken over Dave Mcvety's back, toasters as weapons, scared 13 year olds running for their lives. By the time peace was restored half our basketball team was arrested (thats why we sucked the first year, ask Peter Rowe) and police from all around were there.
Thats one of my many ring stories, but my favorite has to be Julie Cooks asskicking of little girls who were bad. But thats a story for another time. I loved Tanya, Pete, Hiram, Dave and Terri. Looking back, they were instituting the rules of the program. Seperate they were always there with insight and advice when needed. I mean, there are things I hate about my stay, things I think were wrong and messed up. But for the most part the staff were people helping people. Maybe Peter was a cocky egomaniac that I would have tooled on if I knew him in college, but man, the guy can ball for an old man and some of his advice was good. Tanya could be cold, but she knew her shit and made you earn everything. Hiram may be the smartest man I still have ever met, and I still take some things he said to me to heat. And Terri, well, she was real and I miss her. Hope my story entertained a few.
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hell ya it did jon. what house were you in? and what time period?
SyN
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I was there early 90's, E-7 before it became the T-Project house. and you? I have so many good and bad weird tales to tell. Just checking your profile, noticed you are in the business as me, just the other side. I have managed some high profile clubs and restaurants in Boston.
[ This Message was edited by: jontgwd on 2004-02-02 07:49 ]
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3 94-97 please share more of these fond memories. they are juicy.
SyN
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:wstupid:
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I also believe there were staff members that did help us... but Peter Rowe was just plain cruel. I was in 7 as well, a few years after you.
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I am very interested to ask how Peter was cruel. I mean, I know he was a male shovanist, so did it involve that. Like I said, he was a joke as far as i am concerned, I know some interesting private things about him. But it does not take away what he has done for that program, or does it?
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you may have been helped but that program was abusive. fuck peter rowe and his eminem wannabe bullshit. like what is he forty years old and still dressing like a wigger, thinking he's some badass gangsta? he lives in maine, so their standards for gangstas might be low, but where i come from, even urkel's more badass than peter rowe.
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I'm glad to answer your question. How was Peter Rowe abusive? You're getting me started here.
Peter Rowe's way of gaining "repect"was through intimidating, emabarassing ppl, throwing ppl's areas on their faces. What type of help did Peter Rowe offer to ppl in his groups? He used his group time to talk about athletics (since when this is an issue?), about rap and about shooting ppl down (oh yeah, he's really good at that). I never liked Peter Rowe although I was afraid of him. But the day he lied to me and told me that my father was calling me names and I almost stopped talking to my father for that reason, I realized that he's cruel. He enjoyed shooting ppl down, blowing ppl's visits, you could just see the expression on his face, it was sick.
Talking about "being sick", this guy traumatized many girl's self-esteem, either making humilliating comments about them being overweight, unadequade or whatever. He flirted with others. Pete had this strange way of picking his favourites, mostly the best athletes and the pretty girls. Everyone pretty much wanted to be down on his favourites list cause you'd be able to get away with lots of shit and get extra privileges. Then again, he liked to fuck with ppl like he was making dorm-charts (combining ppl that didn't like each other).
His GM's were always very abusive. He humilliated ppl, he got into ppl's faces and made them believe that they were completely worthless. I'm sorry but most of these ppl aren't worthless, they have a lot opf potential, he souldn't encourage them to think of themselves like that. I got so many GM's ran by Pete that I began to believe him. Thank God I learned to ignore him and believe myself, otherwise I'd be traumatized up to this day, like many ppl have.
He ran most of my origins group in which he made many racist comments that would take him straight to jail. How can a person run origins groups If all he could do is make fun of ppl's culture and degrade them? How do you think it feels for a person to live in a completely different country and have them feel as If they are secluted from the society because they are different? Does it make me less cool just the fact that I have a Brazilian accent?
What's so cool about Peter Rowe anyways? He dressed as a tennager, just like they said, a total Eminem wannabe, eating twizzlers, jelly beans and sweedish fish in groups and chewing them with his mouth open with his feet up on a chair. He looked ridiculous with his long hair contrasting with his bald spots. I'm not just talking about his physical appearance, I'm talking about him overall. When it came down to his personality, all he had was his self-centered ego, there wasn't much else.
Maybe he did help a few ppl (never heard of it, but sure, maybe Freddy Konopasek might have a different opinion than mine), but he traumatized lots of ppl too, especially females and ppl with self-esteem issues. That's one person that I can't forgive up to this day.
Fuck You, Peter Rowe! For all the shit you've put us through!
I think you should ask more ppl, don't just go by my opinion. They'll tell you stories similiar to mine.
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I was in the 3-house GM with Matt Miklautsch. Despite the GM, I think Peter Rowe was likely guilty of the stuff with Matt and that other Jeff kid, both of whom came down to our house. Elan probably helped him cover it up. I could see Tania doing that.
From what I know of Tania and Peter, neither of them should be in charge of children. I was in the house with Sam Vange and when he told me that Elan (Tania) had stopped his sister from attending her father's funeral, I was almost sick from disgust.
As for that Tracy Mendonides woman (doesn't the last name sound like a disease???)... no comment!
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-02-04 13:43 ]
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Marina, I was in 8, but a girl named N.B. actually went down there for the day because her mom didn't have enough money for white water rafting. She was a little overweight, but not by much, the only reason for the extra weight was the fattening Elan food and the lack of exercise, because she came there skinny. But anyways, she was told that she was not allowed to eat the brownies by some petrified e-7 girls because Peter Rowe would book her and give her a VR. I heard that all e-7 girls were put on diets automatically by this guy upon coming in the house. Was this true? In 8, you were only put on a diet if you were morbidly obese, or if you asked, up until 99, anyways. If Peter Rowe really cared about helping students lose weight, he should have changed the menu, and had people exercise more.
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MArina,
I am sorry for all tha tyou went through. At the time I was there I was the "star" basketball player and did recieve many privleges that others did not. I very quickly learned to play the game to survive. After I grew up after Elan I finally saw through all of Perters smoke and Mirrors. When I was struggling after I called Peter many times, and not once did he call back. Tania, Terri and Hiram all did. Hiram is one of the most incredible people I have ever met. I also believe Tania is misunderstood but her heart is in the right place. Sometime I will tell some stories of Peter that are fabulous, just great examples of the fact that he is a complete loser and uses Elan to make himself feel better.
Marina, I am glad you shared that with me, it shows that others saw through his shit. Race, religion, beliefs, and apperance should never be held agaist another, especially a child who is trying to find themselves and are obviously struggling to do so. There is a time for tough love, but no one can survive without encouragement and understanding.
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Hey yo! I'd love to hear your stories. You sound like a very open minded person.
About the whole "diet" matter, it was Pete's sick way of labelling the overweight girls. I never had this issue in my life, until I was submitted to the Elan greasy food, especially considering that when you're in Elan, you don't have anything to look forwards to, except food. The food goes in dichonomy, If you're an expeditor, you get pizza and soda, I mean, ppl are rewarded with food. I'm not much of a runner, so, of course I gained a few extra pounds. I've managed to loose them before my graduation and I've been taking good care of my body, thank you. I still don't understand why he made such an "issue"about it. He just liked to make me feel worst about myself. He did that to many girls. I don't recall of any boys being put on diet LE's yet there were many boys who were overweight... That's Peter Rowe sexist bullshit again.
I don't hold this shit against him reguarding to my part because I got over it, there's not much he can do to damage me anymore since I realized that he no longer has power over how I feel about myself. I don't need Pete's degrading comments to take care of my body and have a balanced diet. I do it because it makes me feel good. But I feel bad for the girls that he did traumatize and also for the humilliation that he's continuing to put ppl through.
Changing the subject: Yes, Peter Moore, Tracy Mendenites is a fucking bitch! I can't understand why the fuck an English major graduate got a chance to come back and abuse kids. In my opinion, she came back as a staff member so she could be vindictive and abuse ppl back from a position of "power". Why don't Elan hire ppl who have at least some experience and, of course, a degree in psychology? It's obvious that someone like Tracy M isn't well qualified to run therapeutic groups and deal with troubled adolescents.
Peace!
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You are such a well traveled person Marina, where are you now. All the culture you posses intrigues me. My spelling is horrible so you must forgive me. Was the cook still fat Bob? Wow, the food could not have been worse. Sheppards pie topped with lard, the only meal I could eat was sunday brunch, and I loved the lower you were on the dicotomy meant you got scraps left over. And what the fuck kind of pizza was that, it was so bad? But damn, it sure tasted good to me compared to the Elan food. Do you know that Prison food is better and healthier? THe state requires it. Things that make you go hhhmmmmmmmmmm
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A good thing about Elan was that you were usually judged by your present behavior instead of your past. Isn't that right, Tracy? Dumbass.
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Do you guys remember the meal evals? Don't you think that they used them to prove that the quality of the food was decent? I don't know about you guys, but I'd always say that the meal was horrible! I decided to become a vegetarian after I worked at the kitchen and realized we were eating class D meat. Nick White used to say that the meat was so nasty that we could hear it "Moooo".
I remember John, the old cook but when I started working on kitchen shifts, Joanne was the head chef. I hated her food, but she was such a nice lady. I gave her such a hard time not knowing the names of kitchen utensils in English. Tania thought I was playing dumb, so I was put on this LE that I had to work in the kitchen like every other day. It felt good to be out of the house and we even got to listen to radio while working. Anyways, I had to pretend I hated it so they'd never put me off this LE. Joanne and I became good friends, she even showed up for my graduation. Who remembers her?
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Folks,
I was searching for a friend & her daughter when I cam across your posts - the daughter happens to be named Tracy Mendonides b. 03/22/1997 Chi., IL - she was first lovable in 1984, & then an obnoxious teenager in 1988, but then the TM you refer to may not be the same person...
The TM I knew was half greek, 1/4 jap, & 1/4 irish !!!
Reply to "[email protected]" only if your obnoxious TM is my obnoxious TM.
regards
koshy george
bangalore, india
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Yeah, Tracy was half-greek too. I think "obnoxious" is a very soft word when reffering to that bitch. She was plain cruel. Anyways, she went to Elan as a resident in the mid- 90's and she came back in 1999 as a staff member. She was good friends with Miluska Martinez, Diane Jacobs, Becky Formol(sp?) and she had a special friendship with Peter Rowe. I hope this might help on your search, I'm sure she's still in touch with them.
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do you know an email address for HIREM???? :question: :question:
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why are you looking for tracy?
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Jenny!!!! Still broken? hope your better!
SyN
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SYN--
what do you meen? Still broken?
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I wonder why nobody well that i saw ever started kicking the person in the ring or the people who formed the Ring? Or even throw there gloves off and started swinging bare handed.
I know if i were thrown in da ring that exactly what i would have done cause what were they going to do then. They cant continue the ring cause ur fucking every one up bare handed including people making the circle.
What could they do next keep u in da corner for months, been there done that.
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lol,, it was attempted,,, and you got piled on by every male in the house,what better place to take out aggression than on some punk who thinks hes steven segal,,ever had your balls stepped on,, kicked in the kidneys and someone clawing your eyes at same time???then after a 30 min session in the corner with 3 pple stepping on your back,, they just put you back in. but i did see jim lehman get punched in his nosebefore 1 guy got taken down,,, was a hoot
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OU2, were you in the house for Mitch Kerbel?
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Was he the little 12yr old?
i was there 04/96-08/97
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werent you in a messed up car wreck?? if not then just hey, i guess :???:
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On 2004-05-06 11:57:00, O.U.2 wrote:
"Was he the little 12yr old?
i was there 04/96-08/97
"
Yes, the rich Canadian Jewish kid.
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yea- i was i guess i just didnt understand your email..
BTW- miluska Martinez is back!!!
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Jenny,
She's back in Florida? Tell her I said wazzup. Miluska has been a good friend to me.
BTW, Jenny, are you still working for New Times? I'm ditching journalism and going into PR.
Take care,
Pete
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no --she sent me an email responce to that address we both have...its lagit..she moved...write her. i havent had a chance to get into a nice email with her. and she said she was in her finals week. so i am sure in a week, it would be good to write her!
see ya jenn..
BTW--why the change from journalism?
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Cause journalism pays shit! Also I have little enthusiasm to write about real estate for what I'm making. I only took this job because I got laid off from my editor's gig in a buyout.
Besides, the idea of working more for clients than for a boss appeals to me.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Moore on 2004-05-13 11:43 ]
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what house was he in? I was in 3 from 96-99 and remember there being a really young obnoxious kid who got put in the ring and then just flopped around, I felt sorry for him then
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the jewish canadian that you're mentioning
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I was in that Genarel Meeting :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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On 2003-12-11 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The whole idea of the ring sounds absuive but it really wasn't.They would make you wear these big huge gloves that really didn't do any damage to anyone.It was like hitting someone with a pillow followed by some weight to it.I never seen anyone get hurt, but I'm sure there was people that got hurt,I just didn't think it really hurt when someone hit you with those huge gloves on."
Maybe you should have been put in the ring you PUSSY. ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff::
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On 2003-12-14 00:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
" The whole idea of the ring sounds absuive but it really wasn't.They would make you wear these big huge gloves that really didn't do any damage to anyone.It was like hitting someone with a pillow followed by some weight to it.I never seen anyone get hurt, but I'm sure there was people that got hurt,I just didn't think it really hurt when someone hit you with those huge gloves on.......................
Fuck You :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:
sounds like it was abusive but wasnt??? my mind warbles at the possibilty that someone could actually think that ,, unless of course your staff or just a plant..i wont regress to calling you names,,if youve never seen welts left from a 1 pound glove i guess u can consider yourself lucky. i guess by that reasoning it wasnt abusive to step on peoples neck , keeping there face in the corner,it didnt really hurt them. so what if they were made to piss themselves,, its just a lille piss.and the residents{im mostly refering to women} who were forced to divulge extremely personal incidents ,, then be made to wear a sign that does nuthin but belittle and degrade even further?the worst 1 i saw was "please ask me how i feel about having to have sex with my mother at gunpoint"i mean cmon,, staff had no real clue,, and were sick ,, twisted fucks,, as well as completely without imagination,, unless was leaning towards depravety..but its ok,, it only looks real bad"
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I remember a persons nose being brioken in the ring. Talk about a beating. That was sick
A woman who was pregnant being put in the ring .She is now dead . I can't but wonder why she would be dead.
I think she thought it was better dead than go back into a treatment facility. She killed herself a few years after elan.
You were put in the ring until you were beaten down . I think the ring is what lead to the mismatched boxing events that you can watch on ESPN. Or at least the concept.
I give you the ring ;A real self esteem building and confidence building tool deployed by the henchmen that ran that horror show of a therapuetic center.
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man this school sounds pretty bad, i went to hidden lake academy, it was a total shit hole therapeutic boarding school pretty much like this except people only got restrained if they acted up not for shit like spilling water. and if you got in a fight you got restrained then sent to the fuckin woods for 26 days. someone please explain to me what is the ring, and sp's and "the corner"
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Remember 97 or 98, three house G.M Ring for josh M from e-8, Dale Martin absolutley destroyed that fuckin cat ...
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yea, joshes nose was smushed in like a fuckin porch monkey's, i felt bad for that wierdo ass kid..
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Are you serious? Thats FUCKED up...
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On 2005-11-30 10:43:00, Matt C. Hoffman wrote:
"I remember a persons nose being brioken in the ring. Talk about a beating. That was sick
A woman who was pregnant being put in the ring .She is now dead . I can't but wonder why she would be dead.
I think she thought it was better dead than go back into a treatment facility. She killed herself a few years after elan.
You were put in the ring until you were beaten down . I think the ring is what lead to the mismatched boxing events that you can watch on ESPN. Or at least the concept.
I give you the ring ;A real self esteem building and confidence building tool deployed by the henchmen that ran that horror show of a therapuetic center.
"
What years were you there?
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********Sigh************
It's all so familiar. They all are so similar, use the same fucking mind control/thought reform shit. As we've all said, same shit different wrapper.
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I have heard the ring was different back when Elan was newer, but when I was there it was very only for very extreme cases. A student would generally get more warnings than could be counted. They would have to have shown extreme physical violence and not responded at all to the warnings.
The ring was litterally a boxing ring. Students would be fully padded in the same height/weight class and have to follow boxing guidelines.
Unless the student receiving the ring refused to commit to stop their violent behavior the ring would never last more than 3 minutes. Mine lasted 28 seconds.
I hope this clears it up for you.
Becca
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They had pregnant girls attending Elan? I cannot think of anything worse for an unborn baby than that. Pregnant women should avoid stress right?
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originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=696&start=0#p7991) 11 Jan 2003:
In 1982, at Elan 7, I had a friend die after going into the ring. It was always a no win situation, putting new people in to "modify" the behavior of 1 individual. I think, like most things there, it was used as a deterrant. Another cheap ploy to get people to submit. Only in this case it wasn't cheap, a 16 year old died......
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
--Edmund Burke[/list]
originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=696&start=0#p8643) 04 Feb 2003:
Sorry it's taken me awhile to reply, not online that much anymore.
The incident I'm reffering to happened during the Christmas holidays in 1982. The resident who died was Phil Williams, a 16 year old from the state of Maine. Unfortunatly, Phil was a ward of the state, because his father was in jail for killing his mother. Phil was a Coordinator Trainee, and started complaining of having headaches. The staff felt that he was malingering, and doin this just so he didn't have to deal with the book (ie. give haircuts). This esculated to the point where he was GM'd and put in the ring for reacting during GM.(for those that thought the ring was only used for people who were violent, think again)After going 3 rounds, I think, hard to remember after over 20 years, Phil went unconscious and started vomitting profusely. After laying on the floor for around an hour,The "Staff" decided he should be brought to hospital. As for who these staff were, I'm sorry, but I cannot remember. It was a weekend and the regular house staff were not there, that much I remember. For what Director, there 'prolly wasn't one there.It was common practice that GM and Rings to be held with just whatever staff was on duty, no director required.
The following Monday, that hack of a nurse they had, came in to tell the house that what Phil died from was an enbolism and that he 'prolly would have died anyways, regardless of the ring (pretty convienent for Elan, I imagine)
Myself, 2 other residents and a staff member did go to his funeral. I'm glad Elan showed this amount of respect.
As for an investigation, I doubt there even was one. Noone ever came to house in an official capacity and asked questions of the residents. This is most likely due to he had no family to push the issue.
I would like to think that if Phil had recieved proper madical treatment prior to being in the ring, maybe he would have been ok. But this is something I'll never know.
Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry[/list]
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The Ring
[attachment=0:19hd04nt]thering.jpg[/attachment:19hd04nt]
http://http://theelanschool.tumblr.com/tagged/1981
Honestly Elan needs it's own "PILE OF DEAD KIDS"
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http://http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/topic.php?uid=2234330403&topic=3393
"Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
’relax,’ said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!"
Anyhow, I think that verse is the creepiest out of all of them, in accordance to Élan.
That is a really similar conversation that I had with Kate Hawkins. I was ONLY a DH getting evals for shingle when I was asked to go into the ring with Tiffany. Kate told me that she could promise me shingle, if I went in. I asked for the 100th time "this is my decision though, right? I mean I am about to get shingle anyways, I don't see why it would affect it." Kate left it alone and then Marty came and tried the same thing on me. I can see how Marty was intimidating to a lot of people. But to me, I always pictured him as a gawky pimply teenager, as a goofy looking man who spoke improper grammar and knew he couldn't get a job anywhere but Élan. A full grow man who got his rocks off by controlling children. To me he was pathetic. His manipulations fell on deaf ears. My entire 3 years at Élan that was the only conversation he had with me.
It took me almost a month to get shingle. Kara told me that all the coordinators thought I was ready. So if all the coordinators had answered YES, why was Clare writing NO? I guess it was my punishment for NOT doing something that was "completely voluntary"
I got the whole shpeal about how I wasn't being a role model if I didn't stand up for Élan eight by fighting Tiffany.
AS for the actual ring it all went down when Tiffany hid under the raft in the middle of the lake. Headcounts noticed she was missing so the house lined up at the bottom of the hill. Just as we were really freaking out and coordinators started scattering into the woods to look for her, someone yelled THERE SHE GOES! and she was hauling ass Olympic style across the lake, 5 people jumped into the water after her and 2 coordinators got into canoes, and when Marc Nueman got next to her she kicked his boat over and luckily he had a life jacket on because his Timberlands filled up with water and he was in jeans and he couldn't move. The entire house watched as she swam into the horizon and Jeff Harttnet followed in a canoe. We all went to the house and had no idea what was going on on the other side of the lake. It was pretty scary.
My guess is that Tiffany was 95-105 lbs at the time. But Jeff Hartnett was probably 6'0 and 200 lbs. The story we were given after Tiffany was brought back to the house was that Jeff tackled her when she got out of the water and she picked up a rock, over powered him and bashed his head in. We were pretty horrified, Jeff was a real sweet guy, and he couldn't help that he HAD to chase a splitter. It was his job. Jeff was supposedly at the hospital and came back with his entire head wrapped in gauze. It looked silly, and not like anything a doctor would do.
SOOOOO, after little, brand new resident Tiffany swam probably about a mile (a triathlon swim is usually 1/4 a mile) She got out of the water and had the super human stamina to then overpower a full grown man and beat his head in? He caught her, so did she really beat his head in? Would she have gotten away? This was the story Clare Woodman told in front of the house until we all thought Tiffany was a pure demon. The meanest most horrible human in existence. DURRING Claires little house meeting was the time that Jeff wobbled through the door with his head all wrapped up. Coincidental timing? Or a well thought out parallel for dramatic effect? All I know is that I was on Tiffany's SP a lot after she was brought back and thrown in the corner. She had a gash on he leg that needed stitches. Staff refused her a Band-Aid. Days later it was completely green and yellow and infected. Jeff’s head wrap also came off within 24 hours while he was covering the post and there was no sign of any massive head trauma as we were all supposed to believe. The head wrap went back on before the house woke up though. Tiffany told me several times while she was in the corner that Jeff tackled her, there was no one around and she was scared. She was helpless on her back in the dirt and she reached over her head and grabbed a rock no bigger than a cigarette lighter, she closed her fist AROUND the rock, and tried to punch this guy to get him off her. (Remember she was in a wet bathing suit and frantic to get out of a very scary cult, she was willing to do anything and was really freaked out by the things she witnessed as a new resident) The rock fell out of her hand after one attempt at hitting him failed.
That was also the story I got from Tiffany 3 years AFTER the incident when I visited her in Boston. We talked about all sorts of corruption and guilt. She would have told me the REAL story. I am sure that is the real story though. There was no sharp jagged boulder, no pathetic little Jeff being overpowered by and exhausted, sopping wet 14 year old monster. But when her 3 house ring came around, the story GREW.
It GREW as the words were shouted to the 160+ kids from Marc Rosenberg’s mouth. She was made to sound even MORE evil, he stated she was trying to MURDER Jeff, she wanted to KILL HIM!!! Everyone got so crazy, frantic and enraged that they were booing at her and screaming at her as she was brought out. Marc Rosenberg Took her head gear and slammed it onto the top of her head. He did it so hard that all of her hair flew forward and was being held in front of her eyes and face like a dense curtain. The girl was totally blinded.
I was 115lbs and even that would have been an unfair fight but they decided on Robin Johnson, a 5'10 180 pound girl who was at Élan for violence related reasons. She swung at her over and over again Tiffany didn't even see the swings coming. She fell on the ground and people laughed mockingly at her covering their mouths or pointing, some people screamed for her "to get up you fucking baby!" and a select few were just saddened and shocked by what was going on around them in their little bubble world. A world that was being proven in front of our eyes was impossible to escape from. After Robin was done beating the shit out of Tiffany and élan 3 girl who was even larger, maybe 200 lbs was cheered in and by this time Tiffany couldn't barely move, I thought she might faint, throw up, collapse. I am sure the staff would have enjoyed that though so she just tried to protect herself. It was scary watching all of the staff members faces twist into malicious smiles, and veins pop out of their foreheads as they screamed to "KICK HER ASS!" in shrieks of pleasure. It was one of the sickest things I've ever seen. After a few more rounds they pulled off the head gear. There was blonde hair from tiffany's head laying at her feet, her face was swollen and patches of red covered her whole body. She swayed as she tried to keep herself standing up straight and 160 students surrounded her, closing in and screamed in her face while their spit landed on her cheeks and in her hair. All of the life from Tiffany’s eyes had disappeared. Marc stopped us briefly to put me and another girl at Tiffany’s sides. We had to hold her up and force her to stare at the other students, since she was to weak to do it on her own. I remember looking out into the see of screaming faces, angry kids who were so broken that they didn't know what they were doing. 2/3rds of them never having met Tiffany b4 this Ring but HATING her because of the power Marc Rosenberg possessed over them. I remember feeling scared of my surroundings, like nobody had a mind of their own, like invasion of the body snatchers...like Why has not ONE person out of this whole room stood up and yelled "STOP IT! LEAVE HER ALONE! SHE IS A CHILD!" All she wanted was to get away from Élan. This was her "therapy" to make her stay? I knew why no one stood up for the true right thing... Because if they had, they would have been next, we all knew it and we were all afraid. So we followed what we knew wouldn't get us any extra attention. What a scary, sick fucking place Élan is.
But Élan wouldn't exist unless PEOPLE created it.
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@The Élan Reporter and others who replied about the ring, Thank you for providing answers to my questions about the ring. I’m sorry it has taken me so long to reply. My hard drive crashed and it has taken quite a bit of time in tech support tedium to get my set up operational again.
I've witnessed two refusals in the ring before. Both were then warned they would be held and then the students with the gloves would be able to use the held resident as a punching bag. I remember one of the held residents was a female and Marc ordered her to be held by two strength while the other female pucnched her in the face and gut over a dozen times. This crude form of punishment was also sought to be a way to conform the anti-elanian to conform to elan's rules. Well it never worked for one, and only made the resident hate being at elan even more, not to mention despise all and any orders from staff and strength. Even TCK found it to be non exciting and walked out of the house, as he lost interest as soon as the beating ended. I guess he had a buffalo to fuck or something. :timeout:
To finish answering your question inculcated about the ring.
The ring was for residents who either commited acts of violence, like attack another resident. That was the only purpose it was for and the staff started abusing it by using it as an excuse over time for alot less infractions committed by a resident. Corner people who throw stuff arounf the room, or kicked out a window, or ripped down production were sent into the ring. There was once this girl who got booked in the dorms many namy times on a daily basis and the rest of the females grew tired of it, so one day staff decided to throw her in the ring, so that every female in the dorm that wanted to get in the ring with her could. Again, this was yet another example of abuse of power by staff. The girl who disrupted the dorm at night was a minor that did not want to be at elan and wanted elan to discharge her because she was not 18 and could sign out. So forcing her to face 15 other women in a ring would be something I would expect from a street gang, not a self help program like elan. The staff do not give two fucks about any resident when they are not being funded to keep them there. If a resident were to run away from there, elan would accept all collect calls made by the runaway at any given time of the day, and convince them to give themselves up all in the name of money. Hell, they wont even allow former residents that were nongrads or not to set foot on their property to visit elan, all because they are no longer being paid to talk to them.
Elan is not a program to help troubled teens, yet it is a place where people learn to become more vindictive and mind fuck those who oppose you. There is a hidden message in elans purpose and that is "Do what you want to that is not right, but do not get caught at doing so". Elan teaches you to be more sneaky and more vindictive towards people by getting back at those by narcing them out, or getting them in trouble for anything.
I’m also made more curious about the pods from Eliscu2’s recent post. These were houses within the houses and from what I’m reading they used the imposition of the forced/false alliances within them as an opportunity for control by splitting and segregating, right? Did pod assignment have anything to do with the level system?