Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Filobeddoe on September 25, 2004, 10:03:00 PM

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Filobeddoe on September 25, 2004, 10:03:00 PM
Ok... here goes! It will probably be a short list for me, but there are some positive things I got out of "my" Seed experience.

IMPORTANT LESSONS:
1) Serenity Prayer- Very important lesson while in The Seed and to this day for me to deal with problems that come up.
2) Change your ATTITUDE- The Seed taught me that it is up to me to "change my attitude" if it is bad. Yes, this is pretty obvious... but it is something I think about almost daily whenever I have a lousy attitude I stop & think about it & know that I can change it if I want.
3) Self Esteem- Was told that I was "better" than all those druggies out there. It was something I needed to "say no" to my peers. It gradually helped me realize that I was capable of making my own decisions without getting approval from my peers. (there of course were many negatives about alienating 90% of population.. BUT eventually helped)
4) Counselling friends & relatives about drug abuse/effects of peer pressure etc. Having been in a "drug rehab" program... I have a unique perspective.

FOND MEMORIES:
1) Many friends made with seed oldcomers & graduates. They replaced my old druggie friends for a few years while I grew up. Looking back, alot of the stuff we did was "druggie-like" like listening to rock music (real loud), dating Seed & non-Seed girls, dancing, hunting, water skiing, riding dirt bikes, etc.
2) Driving back home from a weekend Seed meeting & getting my mom's Chevy 4 door up to 100+mph while listening to Boston's album on my power amped out (300 decibels?) stereo with other Seedlings. (Hey, I was 17 & it was fun)
3) My oldcomers & their families where sincerely interested in my progress & were neat people.

Well, that's about it. Not a long list but I can say some good things about my experience.

What are some of your fond memories or lessons from The Seed?

Filobeddoe[ This Message was edited by: Filobeddoe on 2004-09-25 21:32 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on September 25, 2004, 11:34:00 PM
the seed got me a job with other seedlings and i learned to work hard show up in time  something I could never do prior ,and actually save money for a car. I shared apartments with several seedlings and we had a ball, and yes we listened rock and roll and
I even let my hair grow back and ocasionally some one would make a comment about my hair, but they didn't  try to force me to cut it,  at this point I was an oldtimer.  I also made very close friends with a family that I lived with and they were very supportive, we are still friends to this day. I traveled the country in a pinto with a female seedling friend and that was a great experience, we even fought occasionally, but we never had to use over it. Art asked me to stay on as a staff member and even offered to help me get to art school, I just was not ready at the time and said no.  It took me 11 years later to get to art school on my own, oh well, I wasn't ready.  coulder woulder shoulder.  The seed knew me better then I even realized, even when you think no one knew you, they seemed to know what you needed.   Art is a great man and may he remain well.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Tony Stark on September 26, 2004, 07:55:00 AM
We could sing really well together in St. Pete. :smokin:

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on September 26, 2004, 12:00:00 PM
I know singing those sappy songs were ridiculous, I basically just moved my mouth.
That one took a while for me to get use to.
It certainly was a way to break the big ego.
The road to recovery....
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 26, 2004, 10:33:00 PM
Recovery from what?  99% of seedlings had no drug addiction. Recovery is a drug addiction term.

The only road we were on was the road to coersive cultic mind control.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2004, 10:58:00 PM
speaking for everyone are we? hmmm..
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 27, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
Anon, do you dispute that 99% of the Seed inductees were not drug addicted?

Enlighten us please...
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2004, 01:21:00 PM
children playing with matches could be deadly. I do think many kids were simply developing dangerous habits . the seed for many was early prevention. I do think even today the word addiction may be misused but
bad habits can kill regardless.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 27, 2004, 03:52:00 PM
Early Prevention?  Holy shit...So by that same logic any child drinking a beer should be put in lock down Alcoholic treatment, and kid looking at porno should go to sexual addiction treatment,any kid that gets in a fight needs Anger management counseling and any kid that steals a dollar should go to jail.

It just doesn't fly.  You don't put non-addicted kids in residential lock down addiction treatment, Especially ones using the techniques of a known cult (synanon) with a "leader" that claims to be saving america's youth. Just how fucking gullible and stupid were the parents of seedlings?  I still have stuck in my mind visions of those little children coming into that warehouse and being subjected to food and sleep deprivation. The whole thing was  a travesty and injustice to most of the kids, and those few of you that felt "helped", well...congratulations for "recovering" on the backs of scared little children. Would you do this to your 14 year old if you caught him with a joint and bad grades? I sure hope not.

No, for the most part, addicts were a rarity and oddity in the Seed that got instant hero status once off the front row, then usually they disappeared within a couple weeks. If not, they were called on constantly to woow us with their addiction and jail stories.

The Seed as Prevention.....   ::puke::

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-27 12:54 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2004, 04:47:00 PM
I never meet anyone in the seed that was there for a joint, and about getting sober  at the exspence of other children,
you really are reaching. It sounds to me that you are trying force your idea's on other people.  
Tell again , what did they do to you that was so terrible?   and again I ask,  How come you didn't take off.....  30 something years later your still there, go  out of there.
Take off....
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 27, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
Oh, its you rjfro22. I wasn't sure but thought so, but your latest posts are Anon.

There were children in the Seed as young as 8 or 9 for attitude problems. Many many people were there for "druggie attitudes" and for minor offenses, even skipping school and talking back to their parents.This is documented. Judges even were sentencing kids to the seed in st pete for shoplifting (the judges kids had kids in the program).

I also in length explained to you why I didn't "take off". It was not an option for many. I have also for several years of posts explained what happened to me there, how I had to choose freedom over family, how my famly was left shattered, how my childhood was stolen, how I was embarrassed, hurt, angry, confused, how my ego was destroyed, how I felt in school being the member of a non voluntary cult and how I felt worthless and not part of normal society for a long time.


I am also "30 years later still there" for the benefit of people like you that want a place to discuss what happened in the seed. Before the SDF existed it was just the dirty little secret of many people and few understood like others that were there.  This site is my pleasure to moderate. I don't do this because I chose to relive my hurfull childhood over and over. In fact, I have no emotion whatsoever discussing this. I view this forum as an avenue of public service, something I am qualified to give back to other people who went thru a unique shared event in their life. No thanks necessary rjfro and no charge to join the discussion and no attacks allowed to protect all points of view.

No, rjfro, I am not trying to force anything on anybody and certainly not my ideas. . How many times must I say that?

You seem to want to often bring this discussion off of the Seed and back around onto me for some reason. That is usually the tactic of someone with weak arguments. You may notice few other people do that here. Do you have an axe to grind with me? Do my opinions offend you?  If so, try to get over it and give us the benefit of your knowledge and point of view instead of changing the subject to me.  That confrontational method of communication learned in the Seed really is anti-social outside of exclusive groups.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Filobeddoe on September 27, 2004, 08:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-09-26 09:00:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"I know singing those sappy songs were ridiculous, I basically just moved my mouth.

It certainly was a way to break the big ego.

The road to recovery...."


Right! I can't think of a better way to break down the big ego of a "tough kid" than making him sing Zippety Do-da or Do the Hokey Pokey or playing Simon Says or cutting off a couple years worth of long hair.

You are also correct that many of us were on the road to recovery during & after The Seed... not from drug addiction (which you didn't say) but from a self-destructive way of life largely centered around doing "non-addictive" drugs.

For most of us in The Seed... we needed a "jolt" or an abrupt about face to get off the wrong track and onto the right one.

Unfortunately, there were alot of negatives mixed in with the good & for alot of people in the program, the negatives outweighed the good.

= = = Getting back to original post.... would be interesting for me & others to hear of any fond memories or lessons learned others have had = = =
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 27, 2004, 09:07:00 PM
I will say this, drug use was always a very destructive thing for me personally. I do know people that can smoke pot all the time with apparently little consequences.  For me it always spirals me into a self critical paranoid non fun time and I choose not to do it. Other drugs are way out of the question for me now.

prior to the seed, it didn't do this. Maybe the brainwashin did work in a way. On the other hand, I did far more drugs in a much more dangerous way after the seed as did most of my friends.

Aw fuckit, I just can't come up with anything positive...I give up and totally bail out of this thread.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Tony Stark on September 27, 2004, 11:58:00 PM
Taught me right from wrong when everybody and everything I was into was not right. I could have wound up like a lot of dead ,jailed, institutionalized people. I remember what question Nick asked me when he stood me up and rebuked me....." Do you know how many people want your chair right now?"   :smokin:  

"I predict, Sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some vile disease."
 "That all depends, sir, upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
--Disraeli to Gladstone

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Tony Stark on September 28, 2004, 12:02:00 AM
And you mr. clown asshole moderator can GO TO HELL

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
Tacitus, Roman senator and historian (A.D. c.56- c.115)

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2004, 12:53:00 AM
I deleted your duplicate post Capt america.

thanks for the invite to go to hell and I suppose it is because I asked you to stop sending me ranting incoherent emails and then subsequent apologies.

By the way, you said the seed kept you from being institutionalized?  You have posted prior contrary information about your history and multiple encounters with the mental health industry.

Oh well, perception is everything. Thanks for the kind words.

 :wave:

next pro seed benefactor to the mike please.

  :grin:






[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-27 22:02 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Tony Stark on September 28, 2004, 04:47:00 AM
Well Clown, I figured you'd botch that thread up since you've involved with the occult and freemasons ect. You might try answering my e-mails instead of just not being able to comprehend them. What are you hiding Greg? The fact you've never had visitation in the night? The fact you are a big poser that fucks up threads to hide the truth? I hyope you and Mark get along well in your lifetime. You two are so much alike in deception. As for you music , well I guess you must be married to and have a liscence to fuck so why don't you just do that then.

Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Tony Stark on September 28, 2004, 04:50:00 AM
Bigot? I believe you just described yourself

Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2004, 08:59:00 AM
Capt America, if you wish to continue to "contribute" to this site, you will stop your personal attacks now.

And as a sidenote, I have never been a freemason in my life,  don't believe in the occult, don't know the person you allude to named "Mark", am not married, and don't play music. Where you get these allusions cause me concern for your mental health.

Please leave or focus on the topic. And if you wish your posts to remain, stop attacking people. Thank you.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-28 06:03 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2004, 10:49:00 AM
My apologies to Filbodee. It appears your thread has been hijacked.

This thread is for positive comments about the Seed, lessons learned, friends made, etc.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2004, 04:54:00 PM
My Sister & I went through the program both of us had extensive drug use ( she was a heroine user)
Our 3 younger brothers never got into drugs.  I think that says something.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on September 30, 2004, 01:59:00 PM
Please elaborate..that could mean any number of things.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: ccgar61 on September 30, 2004, 07:03:00 PM
I believe this forum is very good. It allows us who went through this exprience to air our thoughts and impressions of the time we spent at the Seed be it for good or for bad. I believe my exprience was for the better and I hold very fond memories especially of the people I met while I was there. The Seed was not perfect and maybe part of the problem was I expected perfection.After being in the world for so long I have come to the conclusion that nothing that involves people will ever be perfect.
 I can go and on on about somethings that I did not agree with and mistakes that were made, but I choose not to. In the end I feel my true growth happened once I left the Seed (Smartest thing I ever did) but only after I learned the things I needed to learn. If this was a brainwash then for me brainwashing was a good thing. To be able to funtion in the world and to be happy was the whole point of the thing something that some staff and many long timers failed to understand.
 I can understand people who were left bitter and resentfull and even respect thier views I can honestly say it helps me to put my thoughts together about that time in my life which I constantly think about. ( I never get tired of reading these posts) To all of us that went through this exprience I wish you all the best for all of you hold a special place in my heart even if I don't always agree with your views. After much thought I can say that Seed is what gave me the foundation on which I base my life on today. Life is too short to live in resentment or bitterness or wallow in what could have been. You can accuse me of being too much of an idealist but I took what I was taught at the seed as the literal truth. I'm not perfect and I have my faults and God knows how many stupid mistakes I have made. For all of us who went through this exprience (In the famous  of Charles Dickens) " May God Bless us, everyone".
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on October 01, 2004, 01:57:00 AM
I can relate, nice to here what you had to say.
It gave me a good foundation to work with as well.
We all had a unique experience and it is a great forum to hear the good and the bad,  I do believe The Seed was started with love and good intentions, and if one life was saved it was worth it, but I know many lives were saved.  what year were you there?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 07:31:00 AM
:nworthy: I tip my hat to ccgar61 & rjfro22
you guys are good folks
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 08:36:00 AM
". . . Our 3 younger brothers never got into drugs. I think that says something."

Yeah, it says they didn't want to be fuck-ups like big bro and sis.   It says they saw how fucked up the SEED was and how fucked up their paretns were for enrolling you and sis in the program.   It says volumes, but none of points to anything good about the SEED.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 09:08:00 AM
::jawdrop:: My God Whats your problem?  All 5 of us are very sucessful & have families and are all very close.  What institution are you presently in?
 I,m suprised they alow you access to a computer.  Maybe its medication time and you are running late???
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: cleveland on October 01, 2004, 09:21:00 AM
Personally, I can't understand why anyone wants to yell at another person who went through the Seed, no matter what your experience there was. Whatever your personal experience was, it's yours, telling somebody the Seed sucked because you say so, or it was the greatest thing ever, is not going to change anything. I enjoy reading the posts about good times and bad, because I had both. I hope people on both sides will respect each other, because, love or hate the Seed, one thing we can agree on is that when you were in a Seed Rap you were not allowed to express anything but good thoughts about the Seed and anything but bad thoughts about your 'druggie' past. So, chill out and state your truth here and listen to others if you can. We can all learn something from each other - now that we can be honest.

Call me a Pollyanna if you want to...

_________________
Wally Gator[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2004-10-01 06:21 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
point taken(Pollyanna)
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 09:35:00 AM
::argue:: see all those years of teaching high school paid off- you can subdue the addults with high school mentalities.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: cleveland on October 01, 2004, 10:26:00 AM
Ha Ha! I don't know about that! Those High School kids kicked my ass somedays...

It's probably more about growing up in an alcoholic family - "mom, dad - stop fighting, please!"

But thanks for the compliment. :razz:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 10:42:00 AM
::birthday::
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Scout on October 01, 2004, 11:07:00 AM
I have good and bad memories of the seed and my time there but my life today is determined by the choices I make now, not by what happened 30 years ago.  

I was put into the seed at 15 yrs old after my older siblings were already on the program.. both court ordered.  I had smoked pot only 2 times (both times with the same person), and drank alcohol many times.  When I was in my intake interview, staff had gone out to the group and asked if anyone had ever done drugs with me and people said they smoked pot many times and had done speed with me....complete lies (the one person I smoked pot with was not in the seed at the time, but came on the program after me).  Anyway, that sealed my fate and I was put on the front row that day.  I remember telling my oldcomer that they lied but of course, no one believed me.

So, here I am 30 years later.  Do I have a great life...absolutely.  Is it because of the seed?  By all means, not completely.  The time I spent there and the tools they taught me definitely gave me a leg up on life.  Did I miss out on the last years of my high school, Yes.  Those years were full of turmoil and lonliness.  I threw out all my old pictures, yearbooks and memories of my life back then that I can never replace. I look back and wish I hadn't done that but what the heck, it's over and it's water under the bridge.          

This forum is a great way to finally talk about all those years with people that understand.  I have tried over the years to explain but I just get blank stares looking back at me.  I even meet up with my old highschool clique once a year as sort of a reunion (boy, did I break the rules.. no old druggie friends).  Did they all end up in jail or dead...obviously not.  I wouldn't trade places with them though and I would not change my past if it meant not having the life I do now.  

So, my point is that it's good to talk about, understand it, grieve a little for lost years, be grateful for the good parts, and vow to be an involved, attentive, loving, parent who would not put my child in a program like the seed or any other program.  

Enough for now.

Scout
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 01:26:00 PM
Scout - Where are you from or what seed were you in?
 I probably know you. I don't remember a scout.  Whats you first name or initals? I was around 32 years ago.  Believe me I remember just about everyone and everything.   :exclaim:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 01:42:00 PM
Scout if you are from St.Pete I probably won't remember you- :exclaim:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Antigen on October 01, 2004, 02:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-01 06:21:00, cleveland wrote:

Personally, I can't understand why anyone wants to yell at another person who went through the Seed, no matter what your experience there was.


I understand it very well. For most of my childhood, people who spoke fondly of The Seed were dangerous to my wellbeing. And I had to pretend to love The Seed as much as anyone. It made me ill.

To me, hearing someone talk about how wonderful The Seed was is about like a Jew listening to someone go all nostalgic about the glory days of the Third Reich. Glad you had fun, folks, but I really wasn't having such a good time.


Innocence implies the ability to restrain from the initiation of aggression, and to question those who don't.
Sorin Cucerai

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on October 01, 2004, 03:18:00 PM
Antigen,
               To compare the Seed  to the
hologaust is beyond my believe, do you not understanfd the horror the jews have suffered.
I have never heard anyone form the hologaust talk about how it  saved thier  lives. I do unstand you had problems being at the Seed, but many of us got the message and got on with our lives. i am sure you did not mean it to that extreme, I hope .....  
Besides I am not a Seed lifer, I am just grateful and have good memories of what it did for me and it was'nt always easy.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Scout on October 01, 2004, 03:38:00 PM
Ginger, I don't know you but I understand the cloud that you lived under as a sibling of seed kids..  Because my siblings were in the program for about 2 years before I was, there was always the threat of my going onto the program if I screwed up.  I went to open meetings for 2 years every Friday.  My friends became distant from me for fear that if I went into the seed, that I would rat them out, which of course, I did once I entered the program.  

I remember my friends were not allowed to come over to my house because my olders siblings used drugs and had pretty bad reps.  That was before the seed.  Then, once they went in, my friends still couldn't come over to my house because we were involved with the seed.  The program totally comsumed my life and my families life from the time I was 13 years old.  But then again, so did the drugs and the trouble that goes along with it consume our lives before the seed.  So which is worse?  I know my parents were just trying to do the right thing and they were pretty much at their wits end.  They put me on the front row cuz they thought I was next.  I might have done the same thing if I were them and were looking for help.  What they didn't know was that the seed would alienate us kids from them and cause a much wider communication gap.  Remember parents rap??

Anyway, just thoughts.  And yea, I did go into the St. Pete seed.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 03:47:00 PM
Antigen,
Did your family live in Melrose park in the 70's?
I really liked your family.  Although I did not know them well. I think If I'm remembering correctly you were a really cute little girl at the open meetings.  Sorry you still feel the same .  What I don't understand is your family probably hasn't been involved in over 30 yrs. Maybe I missed some posts. Why is this still so upsetting to you?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 01, 2004, 03:56:00 PM
Scout, maybe we know each other if you went to the St Pete Seed. Email me at [email protected].

Look foward to hearing from you.

And for those that dont understand how Ginger feels, it is because you walked in different shoes and processed your time in the Seed Cult differently than she did.

Simple as that.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 01, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-01 08:07:00, Scout wrote:



So, my point is that it's good to talk about, understand it, grieve a little for lost years, be grateful for the good parts, and vow to be an involved, attentive, loving, parent who would not put my child in a program like the seed or any other program.  



Enough for now.



Scout "



Right on point in my opinion...except I personally dont have any good parts to share. It all was so negative for me, the whole entire experience I can not think of one positive I took from it.

Except the old adage That which does not kill you makes you stronger.  I really didnt need that knowledge at 14 years old.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 04:09:00 PM
I really wanted to hear from Antigen -Greg
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 04:11:00 PM
Greg - Do you have any contact with any family(parents or siblings?)Were you at Broward ST Pete & Straight Inc?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Antigen on October 01, 2004, 04:28:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-01 12:18:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Antigen,

               To compare the Seed  to the

hologaust is beyond my believe, do you not understanfd the horror the jews have suffered.


Yes I do. Do you understand that the Third Reich came to power in 1933? That they didn't start off w/ work camps and mad scientists doing horrible experiments on inmates, but as a "grass roots" movement to improve German culture?

Point is, I'm not comparing The Seed to the Holocaust. I do, however, compare the war on (certain unpatentable) drugs to the third riech. Just substitute one scapegoat for another. If anything, The Seed, Straight and some other organizations are directly comperable to the Hitler Jugund.

Wally said he can't understand why anyone would want to yell at another former Seedling. I was trying to explain that.  

Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Antigen on October 01, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-01 12:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen,

Did your family live in Melrose park in the 70's?

I really liked your family.  Although I did not know them well. I think If I'm remembering correctly you were a really cute little girl at the open meetings.  Sorry you still feel the same .  What I don't understand is your family probably hasn't been involved in over 30 yrs. Maybe I missed some posts. Why is this still so upsetting to you?   "


No, Lyons Park in Pompano Beach. You probably did know my family, as we were involved pretty constantly from around `70 till at least `78 or so.

It still bothers me because it destroyed my family. Not just a little tention here and there in the midst of an otherwise decent family relationship. I mean I haven't spoken w/ my mother since the last time she tried to force me to go into treatment, which was only around 12 years ago. She remains convinced that, because I smoked pot when I was 15 and didn't graduate the Program, that I must still be a druggieinneedoftreatment.

But that's just personal business. The reason why I try to get some public light on the subject is because of the overwhelming power these same drug warriors have in public policy.

Did you know, for example, that DARE is not a curriculum but a psychological program and that the president of the corporation is a very powerful former Seed parent? I don't know about you, but I don't want that crazy old bat anywhere near my kids' heads!

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-- Albert Einstein

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: cleveland on October 01, 2004, 05:06:00 PM
Yes, I can understand anger, and it's justified. I just don't think we should abuse the person -

As far as the Seed being Third Reich-ish - that's all I used to think about on the Front Row. Until I was convinced that I was really worthless and needed the Seed to survive. Is there potential for abuse in this? Yes!

However, I hung around for a long time after my Front Row and came to really like some individuals. My 'interpretation' of what I was supposed to do became a little less black and white, and finally, I couldn't stay.

Do have good memories? Yes! Did I learn something about life, mainly by seeing how easily I and others were manipulated? Yup - would I send my own kid? Nope!

I do feel bad for anyone who suffered, and whose family was torn apart - so was mine, but mine was so disfunctional at that point I hardly noticed.

So the point is - your reality is yours, mine is mine - I don't want to be shouted down by anyone if I say something they don't agree with.  Otherwise it's like one of those phony Fox interviews where everyone's just yelling pointlessly.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Antigen on October 01, 2004, 06:09:00 PM
Hey Wally,
  This reminds me of a conversation (read brawl) that happened on a drug policy reform list. A guy, who had just been threatened w/ a baseball bat by a Baptist minister for gathering MMJ petition signatures outside the polling place asked a question. And I, being what I am, answered it bluntly and litterally.

  He asked why people got so utterly freaked out and violent over something like the sight of a pot leaf on a t-shirt or long hair and tie dye. (We're talking Jax cir. 1995 or so) My answer was that older conservatives, especially there in the Bible Belt, associate all of those symbols w/ Communism.

  A brawl ensued! But it's still the truth. Not that only Communists are in favor of MMJ. In fact, most MMJ activists I know are either Libertarian or Republican. But that is the perception.

  I think you can expect to strike a nerve w/ a lot of former Seedlings if you speak kindly of Art. To some, he and his little clique were real mosters.

  Oh hey, btw. Helen Petterman's name springs to mind behind that. Ya'll might enjoy this.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#18413 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2862&forum=7&start=0#18413)

(it also sort of paralells what I was trying to say)

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day
Thomas Jefferson

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2004, 12:05:00 AM
I was "asked to join The Seed" down in Broward, I had never heard of it and didn't have any idea what I was getting into. My parents put my brother and I in after they were informed from their kids that we were "druggies". So I spent 3 months in Broward before they opened up the seed in St. Pete. It seemed at the time that we filled that building up with all our friends from Lakewood High, sorry about that, but at least we knew everybody. I finished my program 4 months after that, and got on with the rest of my life, so far. All in all, the experience wasn't really that special or life changing, just another chapter.
I'm sure I got into drugs because "all my friends were doig it" and, "peer pressure". So through "peer pressure" at the seed I quit drugs. After getting off the program I had a choice again of where I wanted to go next I finished High School, started college, dropped out, jioned the Air Force, after finishing my stint I got married, 26 yrs now, raised a family, both in college now, and am enjoying suburban life living the american dream.
So that's my "Seed" experience not all that exciting all though I have alot of pictures in Lakewood's yearbook to remember all the Seedling's from. I took most of the pictures for the yearbook'73 and '74 and I only took pictures of my friends, Sorry. Later.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 04, 2004, 02:40:00 PM
ANON, you have the 73 yearbook then we are old Seed inductees together. Your experience was common, the seed being a brief interlude. For others, and if you know who I am you will understand, it was much more profound than that.

Welcome and email me. I am very curious who you are.

[email protected]
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-10-04 11:41 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: littlenicky on October 07, 2004, 03:08:00 PM
Artist: Dave Matthews Band
Album: Crash
Title: Proudest Monkey
 

Swing in this tree
Oh I am bounce around so well
Branch to branch
limb to limb you see
all in a day's dream
I'm stuck
Like the other monkeys here
I am a humble monkey
Sitting up in here again
But then came the day
I climbed out of these safe limbs
Ventured away
walking tall...
head high and singing
I went to the city
car horns, corners, and the gritty
Now I am the proudest monkey
You've ever seen
Monkey see Monkey do, Yeah
Then comes the day
Staring at myself I turn to question me
I wonder do I want the simple, simple life that I once lived in well
Oh things were quiet then
In a way they were the better days
Now I am I am the proudest monkey
You've ever seen
Monkey see Monkey do, Yeah

Dave Mathews Band
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2004, 04:41:00 PM
Nicky - When were you at the Seed?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: littlenicky on October 07, 2004, 05:22:00 PM
?If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken?
 Rudyard Kipling

About a million years ago
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2004, 09:15:00 PM
maybe it should be dippy nicky instead of little nicky
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: ccgar61 on October 08, 2004, 02:12:00 PM
I went into the Seed in 1983 after being court order into a inhouse rehabilation program after a few felony arrests for narcotics and weapons vilolations.I was 22 years old at the time. I walked in scared thinking that all I had to do was keep to myself (work out alot, don't mess with anyone and no one will mess with you). I also thought that at least I did not have to wait for trail in the stockade which was a real human cess pool. I did not like my life or myself very much and in order to survive I had to numb myself from my overwhelming feelings with Coke Qualudes my drug of choice. It feels like this was another world and other life ago. The Seed gave me a chance to be reborn. Without getting into alot of talk. The Seed taught me how to think and live and be happy. I am glad I had that time in my life at the Seed and the good friends that I met.Some I still keep in contact with some. Was the Seed perfect? No it was not. Mistakes were made we were all too human.But overall the Seed game me the foundation in which I base my life on to this very day. I do not mind peoples opossing views as a matter a fact I welcome them they open my eyes to other peoples struggles and internal battles. After I left the Seed I went through good times bad times but all in all I moved forward adjusted and most importantly learned. I will never blame the Seed for my personal short comings or battles that I had to fight inside of myself these battles are mine and only mine. After finding this site and reading the posts I thought why even bother to post anything I know where I stand on this issue and I don't need to prove myself to anyone but myself but, after much thought I decided to let my voice be heard. To all those here I wish you the very best .
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 08, 2004, 06:47:00 PM
same to you, the best that is.

Along that line, to me the Seed was a very destructive force in my young life but I overcame all the negativity.

Today I have no left over problems to speak of short of hating sitting in groups and a healthy distrust of authority.

I do however find the subject fascinating, all sides of it.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 08:06:00 AM
What I was before the Seed:

1.  A drug using, lost girl who had skipped 49 days of High School in 4 months, had 6 F's and one C (awarded by a druggie teacher) on her report card.
2.  A promiscuous 15-year-old girl, used by so many men she couldn't count, specifically men over the age of 20, to include a teacher, who was 30.
3.  A girl who had lost all the moral values her parents ever taught her and felt her life would never be turned around, which caused thoughts of suicide.
4.  A girl who had been "brainwashed" by a rebellious teen generation which told her that free sex was good, that she should "love the one you're with," and that drugs should be legalized.  Hmmm, let's see what happened to most of those cultural icons -- oh yeah, most of them are dead -- or are now conservative.

What happened after the Seed:

1.  After several weeks there, an actual "clearing" of my mind -- not brainwashing -- that allowed me to regain a sense of moral conscience.  Part of this was getting away from old habits and destructive music.
2.  An actual sense that I could have value without a relationship with a guy.  I actually had a sense of sexual purity when I left the program.
3.  I will admit, a very difficult return to High School, which ended up strengthening my character, and allowing me to stand up for my beliefs later in life.
4.  I remember knowing outsiders thought we were in a cult and being brainwashed.  We used to think that was funny, because many of us were having the time of our lives, especially as oldcomers and oldtimers.
5. I remember some of the best friendships I've ever had being formed, while we extended our "rap" sessions to Denney's (or was it Sambo's?) into the wee hours of the morning.  
6.  I remember a bunch of us taking ballroom dancing lessons and actually enjoying it!
7.  I remember really fun softball tournaments and parties in Tarpon Springs.
8.  I remember becoming really good at a sport, which gave me physical confidence I never had before.  My best Seed friend and I played this sport all the time and had a blast.
9.  I remember having my first boyfriend (also a Seedling) who respected me and my new-found purity.  We actually dated without having sex -- what a concept!
10.  I remember a new-found love for learning, which netted two years on the H.S. Dean's list, one year on the Junior college Dean's list, and then completion of a four-year university ON TIME with my peers.
11.  I remember my Dad getting "straight" from Open Meetings.  He was so inspired by us, he quit drinking.  Hmmm, he was an aerospace engineer and West Point graduate.  Was he "brainwashed?"
12. I was commissioned as an Army officer and had a successful career, to include achieving two Master's degrees, one in business, and one in Journalism from UNC-Chapel Hill.
13.  I fondly appreciate my "rap" experience at the Seed, because I am able to help others by relating to them in a way most other people can't or won't.  Also, I have no fear of public speaking, which made me absolutely love being a Media Relations officer in the Army.  I also love public speaking and have been asked to speak at several events.
14. I'm married to a great guy, have five beautiful children, live in a lovely house, am involved in many community activities, and in my church.  I think the Seed really screwed me up, don't you?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 08:20:00 AM
:nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 10:59:00 AM
To Anon above with two Master's degrees? how many years did u live at the seed compound? how many years did u live in the host homes with the girls? how many years did go into group raps? how many times did u ask if you could go out with someone (and were denied the right) how many times did u ask to get a certain job or career (and were denied the choice)? just curious if ur experience was different because u might not have lived at the compound for too many years?  glad to here you are very successful. . . if you did visit did u feel like u were place in a fishbowl while you were there?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 11:06:00 AM
Host ???  Compound  ????
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: littlenicky on October 12, 2004, 11:30:00 AM
Good post Anon,
Glad you Posted, We are part of the silent majority
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 12, 2004, 01:22:00 PM
And how do you know this Little Nicky?  So far I would say the silent majority are those that don´t want a damn thing to do with even their memories of the seed.

But in absense of a scientific pole that is just speculation based on the people I have spoke to over the past five years when I have spoken to people that were there.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 01:30:00 PM
1. After several weeks there, an actual "clearing" of my mind -- not brainwashing -- that allowed me to regain a sense of moral conscience. Part of this was getting away from old habits and destructive music.


4. I remember knowing outsiders thought we were in a cult and being brainwashed. We used to think that was funny, because many of us were having the time of our lives,




9. I remember having my first boyfriend (also a Seedling) who respected me and my new-found purity.
__________________________________________


Hmm...nothing cultish  about that,



14. I'm married to a great guy, have five beautiful children, live in a lovely house, am involved in many community activities, and in my church. I think the Seed really screwed me up, don't you?
_________________________________________________


You are probably not that much different than the average person.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 01:47:00 PM
:roll:  :roll: Average people don't have 2 Master degrees. :tup:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: ccgar61 on October 12, 2004, 01:57:00 PM
I?m writing this as a person who once openly rebelled against the Seed and had to come to terms with my decisions and after much thought I have decided to tip my hat to Art and the Seed and I am forever grateful for that time in my life that changed me so profoundly.

[ This Message was edited by: ccgar61 on 2004-10-12 10:58 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 01:59:00 PM
I just said that about the 2 masters- I'm not the one that did the actual posting.  I'm a guy.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2004, 09:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-12 10:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

" :roll:  :roll: Average people don't have 2 Master degrees. :tup: "



Okay then I guess you subscribe to the theory that she is somewhat better than the average person.

Is this due to her degree or her status as a seed graduate?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2004, 07:22:00 AM
::bigmouth:: You guessed wrong.  I simply stated the average person does not have 2 masters.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2004, 01:27:00 PM
Actually, you replied to this comment
_______
You are probably not that much different than the average person.
_______


Your response ( Average people don't have 2 Master degrees) with smiley faces and thumbs up signs  denotes that you feel she in fact is somehow better or different or that somehow her comments carry more weight.

So, again I ask you, is it because she has two degrees or that she is a happy seed graduate?

Would you give as much weight to a practicing attorney or medical doctor that is a program graduate and also highly critical of the program?(hint...they have posted their opinions here).

I think I already know the answer, but fire away.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 13, 2004, 03:21:00 PM
Oh OK now its "Happy" Seed graduate.  I don't care who posts.  Everyone has the right to.  I learn from everyone.  The Seed was not perfect, I'm certainly not perfect.  I was just very proud of her acomplishments, she sounds very positive and she sound very "happy" and very well adjusted.
I'm sorry that you have a problem with someone that sounds sucessful. In my mind there is no dening that the Seed had many sucess stories.  I believe the harder you tried at it the more you bennifited.  Just as in practice makes perfect.  The more effort you put into something the more you get out of it. Simple stuff to me.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 14, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-13 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I believe the harder you tried at it the more you bennifited.  Just as in practice makes perfect.  


You must have forgotten the severe punishments, come down on sessions, and refreshers people got for trying so hard they got labeled "super seedling".

The truth is, you were forced to wedge yourself in a tight little box of expectations and requirements others had for you. If you deviated from said expectations adn requirements even just a little you were in big trouble.

Now to some that may have just been a blast, to be manipulated into being a person others thought you should be. To others it was damn cohersive and suffocating and felt like being in an orwellian prison.

The fact that the seed was a destructive mind cult  doesnt change with glowing testimonies. As an example,  There are people  who just loved being in the moonie cult and would tell you that before they joined they were wasting their lives drinking and smoking dope and they found direction and meaning there and straightened out their lives. They may even point to their wonderfull family and college degree they have as proof of the power of said affilition. Testimonials to me are almost meaningless because every group including the KKK, the american Nazi party, right down to your local AA branch will have people ranting and raving about how much they love it.

You can try all day to make a chicken sandwich out of chicken shit, but in the end you still have a chicken shit sandwich.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 14, 2004, 02:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-13 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:



I'm sorry that you have a problem with someone that sounds sucessful.


Now what in the world would lead you to believe that?  I commented she was probably just like everyone else..certainly that denotes no problem.

Are you under the impression that disagreeing with someone automatically denotes a problem?

Where on earth would you learn such a concept?

...oh wait...I remember now! :grin:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2004, 02:38:00 PM
Greg-you sound like you need to eat a "chicken shit sandwich" :grin:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2004, 02:41:00 PM
Seriously - You can be quite the wise ass.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on October 14, 2004, 03:23:00 PM
Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.  It is so great to hear from people who remember  the Seed for  the great work they did.  Art  and all the staff  were heros, working endless hours to help us get through some rough times.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 15, 2004, 03:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-14 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Seriously - You can be quite the wise ass."


Thanks for stepping the conversation up a notch.

Seriously you need to improve your communication skills with others.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Somejoker on October 15, 2004, 03:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.  It is so great to hear from people who remember  the Seed for  the great work they did.  Art  and all the staff  were heros, working endless hours to help us get through some rough times. "


Rjfro22, were you on staff?
Do you currently live in Ft Lauderdale?

thanks in advance.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Antigen on October 15, 2004, 03:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.  


Really? I guess they never told you that you were a worthless piece of shit and that your parents didn't want you anymore. That bit really worked a number on my youngest brother.

When my dad went down for his "checkout" interview, he wouldn't sit for a smart assed 16 year old demanding answers to personal questions and dictating what he could or couldn't do, who he could and couldn't associate with. So, he "flunked" his checkout and wasn't allowed to attend open meeting or to come around the house once my brother made oldcomer. Regardless, he still thought my brother needed the Program, so he paid and donated and collected donations from friends, even though he wasn't allowed to see my brother.

Those delicious cold cuts you got for lunch sometimes? Fuck Art, he didn't buy them, even though he certainly had the means by then. Thank Louie DeFasio of Roma Deli in Pompano and John McNulty for soliciting those ongoing donations.

All the while, maybe even the night I remember sitting in the car out in the old orange grove w/ my dad while my mom attended open meeting, you sadistic sons of bitches were telling my brother that his dad loved his beer more than him. Poor Tommy, right? If only he knew the truth. But, alas, he's so thoroughly washed that he didn't believe me when I told him the truth.

He didn't get straight, either. I found out just a few years ago that the day he came home to help get me into Straight he was strung out on coke. He's been through 3 marriages while bouncing from one XA group to another. If you're going to take credit for anyone's success, then you have to take responsibility for his failure. After all, you turned him against his own father when he was only 14.

Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By  any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young,  DOJ/DEA

Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on October 15, 2004, 07:41:00 PM
No, I was never a staff member,  but I was asked to stay on, but I decided to move to California and start a new life.  To be a staff member   was such an unselfish act and I was not ready for that, and my hat goes off to those who choose to help others
unconditionally.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 16, 2004, 01:29:00 PM
thanks for the answer rjfro22. You left out whether or not you currently live in ft lauderdale.

thanks again.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 16, 2004, 01:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.   "


Everything?

You mean like screaming at 14 year old girls that they were so full of shit they couldn´t even fuck a coke bottle?

Like reducing to tears anyone that didn´t agree totally with someone.

How about it is okay to lie to someone if the end result was they would get "treatment" aka entry into the seed?

Like screaming in peoples faces at top volume?

Like holding people, illegally I might add, captive inside of rooms at night and watching them defecate because they hadn´t "earned the right" to privacy.

How about learning that your life was worthless before you found an affirming group of people?

crap, the list of fractured lessions learned in the seed could go on for pages.....
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: rjfro22 on October 16, 2004, 02:02:00 PM
GregFL
             I live in Los Angeles since
1976. I think we were in different programs,
I remember tough love when needed,  the group even came down on me at times and I learned a lot from it. I never saw anything like what you have discribed.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 16, 2004, 03:42:00 PM
The seed constantly tweaked the culture. I personally witnessed as did others at the St pete seed little tiny 14 year old girls stood up, berated sexually in front of the entire group.

The "I bet you couldnt even fuck a coke bottle" routine was repeated ad naseum and usually left the little girls crying and spent. Also, "guys never liked you, they only used you for sex"  "you were nothing but a joke on the streets" type bellittlement was not only common but routine.

I have noticed a phenom with people who support the program and that is they often have shut out the negativity and refuse to discuss it.  I think it has something to do with really buying into the big lie that you were worthless and going to die without the almighty help of the seed, and that all means were justified by the redemption (purity as one recently described it) the seed gave you.

I didnt need to be saved by those nuts. I could have done just fine not spending 12 hours a day in that hot warehouse without adequate food or water in constant fear of being confronted and having my freedom stripped from me.

I am sincerely glad you are posting  here rjfro22, I just think you really havent stopped to critically examine the processes you went thru that cause you to be a grateful graduate of thought reform.

check out these quotes.


 "The whole trick is to make you feel like the lowest scum of the Earth. I knew it was wrong. I wanted to stand up there and tell them they were all full of it but I didn't know my court order was phony".

Archie Mcrimmon, former seed employee, describing the "come down on you therapy", remembered that Seedlings were forced to stand up in front of the whole group of Seedlings and listen to hours of abuse and also reflecting that he stayed there because he was told he was court ordered, which later turned out to be phony.


or....


 "If you don't, she will die".

Told to a potential Seed parent by a Seed father. The mother then called the girl out of class by telling her she had a doctors appointment, and the Seed father then, according to the girl, kidnapped her from St Pete Catholic and beat her on school premise. The Girl showed an evening independent reporter black and blue marks on her legs which she claimed resulted from the incident. The resulting scuffle in which the girl screamed and kicked as she was dragged to the car was witnessed by teachers and students in the schoolyard.

No charges were filed against the man by the St Pete police. The chief of police was a Seed parent.

The St Pete Independent 6/74
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2004, 05:08:00 PM
At the time when everything felt so surreal and uncertained about 3 days into the Seed
I can remember a golden afternoon light filling the back rap room bringing to me for the first time in what seemed years  a overwealming peace of mind. I remember thinking "It's over" I can finally breath again as I looked out toward the truckers shed and the side lot.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Somejoker on October 19, 2004, 05:34:00 PM
what was the significance of the truckers shed, and does it relate to "Truckers" handle.

Thanks for the explanation in advance.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2004, 05:58:00 PM
This was not meant to be a cryptic message.
The Truckers shed was the Shed on the side lot where all the tools were kept for gardening and maintance of the building.Big in the early 70's when the Strd84 Seed opened the guys who did the work on the grounds were nicked named "The Truckers" so the shed was called the Truckers shed. I was just trying to convey a mood.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2004, 07:02:00 PM
cool. I figured you were being literal when you said that but I was always curious why he called himself trucker. I actually thought he may be a long distance driver right now.

You cleared it up. Thanks.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 19, 2004, 07:10:00 PM
I visited the Lauderdale Seed twice, once while an oldcomer and the other time when I was an oldtimer for about 2 months.

When I was an oldtimer I showed up with my sister, newly graduated expecting a warm welcome. For some reason we thought it would be cool to stop by.

 They were all suspicious at first, sat us down at a desk and grilled us on why we were there. Soon John loosened up and took us in an introduced us to the group, brought us back for a minute or two talking to Art and then basically said goodbye.

I remember walking out with my sister and saying "that was weird" and leaving. I don't think we much discussed it after that but it really creeped me out the way they acted. I think that was my last formal contact with the seed.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: TRUCKER on October 21, 2004, 01:36:00 PM
Yes I was a trucker.Does any one remember the large snakes that were caught in the old building
at the end of the asphalt lot?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: TRUCKER on October 21, 2004, 01:37:00 PM
TRUCKER
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2004, 06:08:00 PM
Some of the best people I have met in my life are from the Seed.I've been away for many years now but it never fails I will be driving home and some old memory will resurface and a smile will come to my face.
 On one occassion I was spending sometime with a cousin of mine that knows a couple of other Seed guys although,he never went to the Seed not so much as a single open meeting he made this statement to me that took me by surprise. "come to think of it Some of the best people I've met are from the Seed".
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Somejoker on October 21, 2004, 06:51:00 PM
Well, its no surprise you would feel that way. First you rejected everyone you knew before the seed then spent years and years surrounding yourself with them.

Of course they are the people you reflect on and think about, you grew up with them so to speak. This is normal.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2004, 06:47:00 PM
The reasons I post on this forum is to help me come to terms with my experience at the Seed. If someone relates or disagrees with what I post that is ok because I believe that all of our experiences are unique unto ourselves. I do not like to Post here too Pro or to Con I try to find both the good and the bad in order to be able to sort through my experience and put my experience into its proper place with in my mind. If I post to pro I feel the need to exam myself in my motives, ?am I truly convinced of what I ?am stating to be an absolute truth?? Or, am I so conditioned to think in a certain way that I have ignored the truth altogether? I suspected that the truth is somewhere in the middle (just trying to come to terms with all of this). These are common battles we all fight within ourselves and the answers we conclude to are what ultimately define us.

  My experience at the Seed is one of contraction, filled both with great joy and memories and of course with some regret. The Seed definitely opened doors for me. It taught me how to be self reliant, honest, and functional in my daily affairs, but most of all it taught me how to love myself and the people around me. These lessons are instilled deep within me and are what I base the foundation of my life to this very day. To deny this would be deny my whole philosophy. A life philosophy that was acquired at the Seed and was customized to fit my life once I left the Seed. I believe that much I learned at the Seed was very valid and useful lessons that I needed to learn not only to survive but also to be well adjusted and happy. I refuse to blame the Seed for my shortcomings hence my whole reason for being at the Seed and the good changes that were achieved at the Seed. (I can only speak for myself). I?ll be the first to admit that I?m somewhat dysfunctional in my post Seed life but then again I was before I went to the Seed. The biggest difference being that now I had the correct mind-set to face these problems with clarity some common sense and direction, remembering another Seed saying, ?Life is the journey not the destination?.
 
  We can argue endlessly about the point was the Seed a Cult or not, (some aspects were and some were not) and still remain entrenched in our perceptive positions (I suspect the truth is split right down the middle) but that?s not my point to this post.
 While I spent my time there I noticed how some people took to what was been taught at the Seed. Some people (probably most people) took things at face value on a very superficial level and were very literal on how rules were interpreted. This fundamentalist position I found to be most dangerous because of its rigid interpretation of the set standards of behavior among the people of the Seed. I found these people stifling and unimaginative with a complete lack of depth. I found myself not wanting to be that way. I wanted be more open minded both my heart and mind told me that I was better than that and I certainly did not want to cheat myself out of what I could be as a person. I suspect this is partially due that most people as in life were bidding their time until the moment they graduated and then were able to go their merry way.
 Other people I include myself in this group wanted to grow and cement things permently within ourselves to avoid making the same mistakes and to gain true wisdom (call me an idealist) so questioning this period in my life is only natural. I can not be pigeon holed into being accused of being a mindless follower of Art because to be honest I always found the people that were kind of strange and dangerously misguided however, after many years being away I did acquire a good appreciation for Art and what the Seed was able to do for me. (I know and love people on both sides of the coin).

I post here not to defend my position or to insult anyone but to clear my mind and clearly define the lessons learned from the Seed both the good and the not so good. I yearn to grow in depth and in knowledge but above all in understanding.

 In the end what caused me to go was an ever-growing resentment on my dependence on the Group and the lack of control I had over my life but, some good came out of this. I came to the conclusion these feelings were natural and only served to signal me that it was my time to go and make my way back into the a normal life. I can honestly say that I never held a grudge or resentment toward the Seed. To throw blame toward the Seed or anything else would simply be unfair and cowardly to the Seed or to myself. I take control and responsibility for my life both for the good and the bad.
 Once I went my way I was able to take control of my life and become a staunch individualist. The problems that I face now are mine not the Seeds, not any therapist, priest, minister or whatever else I can think of to use for my escape can be blamed. These problems were present before the Seed and long after the Seed. Theses battles are mine and mine alone and I have faith that in good time I will find the solutions and answers to all these things.
 
Two things I really appreciate now are clarity and control.

It?s OK to speak ones feelings and clear the air.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on October 22, 2004, 06:55:00 PM
Great post.  Just remember one thing...when you left the seed you did so willingly as an adult, not a 14 or 15 year old that never wanted to be there in the first place.

Same place two different results.  I appreciate your introspection and open mindedness and participation in this forum.

It is what it is all about, after all!
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2004, 09:59:00 AM
Trucker - I remember alot of corn snakes
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
there were corn snakes, black racers along with scorpions
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2004, 08:09:00 PM
My daughter went to the Seed and my son to a fancy institute complete with psychiatrists and other drug dispensers. They proceded to beat him up and put him in solitary for weeks on end. I don't recall the Seed doing that. Art Berker charged nothing, but the institute was so outrageosly expensive that when I was forced to retire,  I couldn't afford the 25 Per cent after
my health insurance payment. My family doctor interned at the drug center up north of Lexington, KY. He said that government blot on the taxpayers did not cure any better that just dumping druggies on the street and hoping that they would cure themselves. That's what happened to my son who does not use drugs, alcohol, caffeine, and is a strict vegetarian. The Seed is not and never has been what its opponents (probably all druggies) say here and elsewhere.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2004, 08:58:00 PM
Yep, Art Berker was some guy.
 
Lets see, your son cured himself. He never went to the seed. And your daughter?  You left that part out.

All seed critics are druggies, eh?  Gee, never hear that before.
 :roll:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 12:10:00 AM
The Seed gave me a family environment also with foster parents who were wiser, and where my own folks had failed I found peace in knowing not all grown-ups were like my parents.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: cleveland on November 08, 2004, 09:37:00 AM
I think it's all relative people. If you were a hard-core shooting up junky, or came from an overtly abusive environment, the Seed must have seemed like heavan. If you were a typical confused middle class teen, the Seed was a temporary haven at best from which you could leave and start a new life. If you hung around in the '80s, it was a little island separated from the outside world where you could live, work and play and never deal with people you didn't know intimately. The price for this was your freedom and self-will. Many were willing to pay it, at least for a while.

The Seed got one thing right. Kids need love, lots of it, and most don't get it. They are made fun of in school, left alone at home in front of the TV, and neglected by working parents, some of which have their own substance abuse or mental problems. Hug your kids!
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 10:10:00 AM
Here's one that's better:

http://www.ami-fl.org/Youth_Services/services.htm (http://www.ami-fl.org/Youth_Services/services.htm)

Quote
On 2004-11-07 17:09:00, Anonymous wrote He said that government blot on the taxpayers did not cure any better that just dumping druggies on the street and hoping that they would cure themselves. That's what happened to my son who does not use drugs, alcohol, caffeine, and is a strict vegetarian.

So if that's what happened to your son and he does not use drugs or alcohol then how exactly do you attribute his success to the Seed????

 
Quote
The Seed is not and never has been what its opponents (probably all druggies) say here and elsewhere. "
:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 10:38:00 AM
Right on Cleveland. And this is the magical allure of almost all cults...love bombing. They bring you in and  give you instant paths to love. ALl you have to do is comply. Soon you are walking talking and acting like everybody else.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 06:54:00 PM
I'll reply that I'm the daughter of the one who posted this, and since you've asked how the Seed daughter turned out, I'm the one on page 6 who has the Master's degrees, etc.  Don't mess with my dad.  He has put up with a lot of crap and doesn't need any here.  Remember, you asked for fond memories and positive aspects.  You shouldn't shoot the people who report them.

My dad loves my brother and me and is proud of our accomplishments. I will always be thankful for him putting me in the Seed.  After he dropped me off, my mom reported that he returned home and cried all night wondering if he had done the right thing.  I was so screwed up that he was at his wit's end.  My brother had to go through torture at another style of drug rehab.  You guys that complain about our "cult" ain't seen nothing compared to his stories.  By the way, I was in the Seed at the same time, same place as GREGFL, and I don't remember half of what he reports, and it's not because I'm a mindless "Nazi" who is hiding or stuffing her "cult-induced" memories.  

I think a bunch of the complaints here are revisionist history.  I remember reading the St. Petersburg Times stories when we were at the Seed, and most of the stories were based on reports from Seed runaways, screw-ups or their parents, who had an axe to grind. Also, a lot of the reporting was speculation because Art tried so hard to keep the curious public out to protect our anonymity and our growth in the program.  He practiced "the rules" too.

By the way, as some would hint here to jab at my dad, the street didn't cure my brother.  It took a lot of hard work and determination on his part, a lot of sacrifice, set-backs and heartache.  He still regrets that he lost his chance to get more education, because he had to fight just to keep food on the table.  Most of us who graduated from the Seed had a chance to recover our educations if we chose to do so, or if our parents had that goal for us in the first place.

I'm sorry that the "testimonials" of Seed success are so "blah" to some of you, but I am not living in a post-Seed rebellious mindstate, posting endless diatribes on a message board.  Instead, I'm using my energy to volunteer in my community, raise a family and make a lasting difference on society.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 06:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"  Don't mess with my dad.  He has put up with a lot of crap and doesn't need any here.


Then tell him to go away if he doesn't like what's posted here.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 07:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

" Instead, I'm using my energy to volunteer in my community, raise a family and make a lasting difference on society.



"


That's funny...ME TOO. :lol:   I'm doing my part by shutting down Seed/Straight spinoffs and dedicating my life to exposing the Barker/Sembler/Newton/Stepcraft dirty little secrets.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 07:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote
By the way, as some would hint here to jab at my dad, the street didn't cure my brother.  It took a lot of hard work and determination on his part, a lot of sacrifice, set-backs and heartache.


Then please explain this statement:

"He said that government blot on the taxpayers did not cure any better that just dumping druggies on the street and hoping that they would cure themselves. That's what happened to my son who does not use drugs, alcohol, caffeine, and is a strict vegetarian. "
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2004, 10:32:00 PM
Oh, but you are posting here...and apparently so is your dad, you know, the guy still using seed lingo 30 years later calling seed critics druggies.

So know we know, you brother "cured" himself and you needed the seed.

You sure about that? You less of a person than your brother?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on November 08, 2004, 10:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:


 By the way, I was in the Seed at the same time, same place as GREGFL, and I don't remember half of what he reports.....
I think a bunch of the complaints here are revisionist history.  I remember reading the St. Petersburg Times stories when we were at the Seed, and most of the stories were based on reports from Seed runaways, screw-ups or their parents, who had an axe to grind. Also, a lot of the reporting was speculation because Art tried so hard to keep the curious public out to protect our anonymity and our growth in the program.  He practiced "the rules" too.




As they would say in the seed  "you are full of shit" ... at least on this topic.

Art allowed the "curious public" to come to open meeting and observe who was there and listen to their coerced confessions. In St Pete sometimes there would be several thousand observers and parents.

Art put HUNDREDS of kids in front of TV cameras and ran their pictures and testimonies over and over on tv stations thruout florida and Ohio. The infomercial is called "the Seed of hope".

Art only inacted the "no talking to the press" rule after making a complete ass out of himself over and over. Even then the press was at every open meeting at the Seed and Art gave countless statements to the press. Was the press all druggies too? I can tell you this, it took the St Pete Independent almost a year before they caught on and started critically reporting seed events. At first the were solidly in the Seed camp until Senate reports came out, people testified that they had been beaten and abused.

Further,early he let the press interview and post newcomers names and MORAL INVENTORIES in local nespapers where he was recruiting new members.

Countless abuse from the period was reported in the press, but here 30 years later you discredit all of those accounts because they were people who had left the seed.

Tell me, if it was so wonderfull, why did they leave? Oh yeah, they were druggies and splits..instant discredit of everything they say.

I am a seed graduate. I have the same "status" as you do post seed.  I am not on drugs. Tell me, why is my memory and the memory of hundreds of people that went thru the seed so easily discredited by you?

Is it because we criticise your beloved cult?

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-11-08 19:52 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 04:10:00 AM
Adios!  Enjoy your website.  No more replies or posts from me, so you can have meaningful discussion with those who support your cause.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 08:45:00 AM
:cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 08:51:00 AM
Speechless, eh?  I think you need to bone up on some facts. The "cause" as you put it is open discussion and  you just got nothing but a open meeting style testimonial to offer. Sorry your feelings are hurt or your hard wired story is challenged. Whatever it is that bugs you about this open discussion, if you are truly signing off... go in peace.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:06:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-11-09 01:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Adios!  Enjoy your website.  No more replies or posts from me, so you can have meaningful discussion with those who support your cause."


And that just PROVES our point!!!!!  Any criticism of the beloved program will NOT be tolerated!! :rofl:  :rofl: Some of us even asked you very pointed questions after your little tirade.  I guess you don't have an answer...hmmmm.  Interesting.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:09:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:



I think a bunch of the complaints here are revisionist history.  I remember reading the St. Petersburg Times stories when we were at the Seed, and most of the stories were based on reports from Seed runaways, screw-ups or their parents, who had an axe to grind.



Shhhh...your right..it was only a dream...go back to sleep....shhhh...everything will be fine.....thats it......


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz




[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-09 06:14 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:30:00 AM
Quote





Shhhh...your right..it was only a dream...go back to sleep....shhhh...everything will be fine.....thats it......





zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:32:00 AM
PLEASE answer at least THIS one.  How long after you got out did you continue to surround yourself with these people?  I've heard rumors and read on these forums that people ended up being involved with Art or the Seed for years after they got out.  True or not?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on November 09, 2004, 09:44:00 AM
Well I think I can answer that for you anon.  This poster apparently didn't go to Ft Lauderdale, but  people that were in the Seed in the mid 70s and early 80s in Lauderdale continued to go to raps for 10 and 20 years. Some estimates were as high as 60 of them while new inductees were floating somewhere around 10 to 20 per year. It became real important for the continuance of the seed to keep as many people dependent on the Seed as possible. They were told they were the cream of the crop, Homo superior, etc.

Maybe someone who was there, Cleveland or RJR could answer this better, but that is what I have been told.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:50:00 AM
Absolutely fucking AMAZING.  I just can't get over that.  No WONDER these people can't recongize that it was a cult.  They're still IN it!!
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:56:00 AM
http://www.thestraights.com/images/seed ... inwash.gif (http://www.thestraights.com/images/seed-Ervin-brainwash.gif)

Please go read this.  Here is an excerpt:

There are indications that a cult of The Seed has developed which leads seedlings to associate only with other seedlings and to ostracize those who associate with non-seedlings. This has led to the formation of continuing limited peer groups outside the program which restrict seedlings' interaction with normal society. Allegiance to such a peer group may lead to a transfer of decision-making and opens the possibility that if the peer group shifts direction it may return its members to drug abuse or turn them to other anti-social behavior.  

1974 Report by the Staff of the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. [Saint Petersburg Times, 4-26-74, p. 7B].
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Somejoker on November 09, 2004, 09:58:00 AM
for the most part, not really. But you need to understand that when someone spends that much time devoting their life to something, criticism is not taken easily and clarity is sometimes hard.

Understanding is what is needed here.  These people have an important story to tell and I appreciate them being here. I have learned so much that I didn't have a clue about from them. Their contribution here is tremendous.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:58:00 AM
Couldn't resist, here's more:

I know many returned Seedlings, there are many here at the High School. When they return, they are "straight", namely, quiet, well-dressed, short hair and not under the influence of drugs compared to their previous appearance of stoned most of the time. However, they seem to be living in a robot-like atmosphere, they won't speak to anyone outside their own group. . . I have noticed that it is almost necessary that the Seedlings be rehabilitated into social situations upon their return from The Seed. . . I attempted to visit The Seed in order to speak to them about how we could work with them and what we should do. I asked for help. I was treated rudely, two people who went with me, were denied permission to enter and were closely watched in a separate room. In addition to rude treatment, I was told that The Seed was not interested in helping us. The Seed counselor with whom I spoke, said, "We are not interested in educators or any of the people out there because they don't know anything. The world out there stinks, we will not come to school people."

Seedlings seem to have an informing system on each other and on others that is similar to Nazi Germany. They run in to use the telephone daily, to report against each other to The Seed. . . I used to take kids there. Now, I know that a number of the children are back on drugs and I am not sure whether the method in which they do return home and the difficulties they have in school, is an improvement over their previous condition of being on drugs.

Telephone statement of Helen Kloth, Guidance Counselor, North Miami Beach Senior High School to Paul T. Schabacker, Senior Health Planner, Individual Rights and the Federal Role in Behavior Modification, A Study Prepared by the Staff of the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee of the Judiciary of the United States Senate, November 1974, pp. 190 -191

 

It's a question of philosophy. What do you want for an end product? Do you want a robot, or someone who can think and act for himself.  

Thomas Perrin, a former alcoholism counselor talking about the Straight-legacy program Kids of Bergen County [Bergen Record, 7-27-86, p. A17]

 

I wasn't me anymore, I was them. I thought what they thought, I did what they wanted me to. I could feel a sense of brainwashing.  

Twenty-two-year-old Lenny in 1986 describing how he felt after leaving the Straight legacy program Kids of Bergen County in 1984. [Bergen Record, 7-27-86, p. A17]
 

The Seed was funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse which was directed by Drug Czar Robert DuPont who later became a paid consultant for Straight, Inc. Dr. Donald Ian Macdonald, Straight's national clinical director, became White House Drug Czar.  In the first 18 months of operation a half dozen directors left Straight. Board member Theodore Anderson had this to say about Straight upon leaving, It has many of the poor points of The Seed and few of the good points. If I had to recommend one I?d recommend The Seed.


What is meant by backbiting, or criticizing behind one?s back? . . . Some comrades have something to say about other comrades, but they never speak out openly. They always talk behind one's back . . . then this can be called criticizing behind one?s back, which is prohibited by the Party.
From a captured Communist Chinese document in Brainwashing in Red China, the Calculated Destruction of Men?s Minds by Edward Hunter, p. 193. (Edward Hunter invented the term "brainwashing" in the cited book. One effective way Straight controls its members is by forbidding them from talking about what happens in the program. It is called No Talking Behind Backs. On page 61 of Dr. Miller Newton's (Straight's former national clinical director) PhD thesis on Straight he lists the Fourth Handout to the New Parent's Raps, Rule 4: No talking behind anyone's back, staff, families, or clients, by name or inference, neither positive, negative, nor neutral comments. He lists Rule 17: Parents should leave promptly after Open Meetings and raps. No parking-lot gossip.)
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 10:18:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-11-09 06:58:00, Somejoker wrote:


Understanding is what is needed here.  These people have an important story to tell and I appreciate them being here. I have learned so much that I didn't have a clue about from them. Their contribution here is tremendous.



"


Point taken.  Guess I got upset when we were told "don't mess with my dad....".  If they're going to be here then they're probably going to see/read stuff that they don't like.  It also still really gets to me to hear people extolling the virtues of the Seed when I know how much damage was done to sooooooooo many in there.  But your point is well taken.  There is always something to learn.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 01:35:00 PM
Amen to that, Brother.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Robin Martin on November 10, 2004, 01:01:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-11-09 05:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Speechless, eh?  I think you need to bone up on some facts. The "cause" as you put it is open discussion and  you just got nothing but a open meeting style testimonial to offer. Sorry your feelings are hurt or your hard wired story is challenged. Whatever it is that bugs you about this open discussion, if you are truly signing off... go in peace.





"
GOOD GRIEF!!  Can we all not agree to disagree??  Obviously, our experiences WERE NOT the same.  I don't feel the need to slam anyone for their negative experiences or impact it had on ones life, family, etc., and empathize with those who still hurt and hold resentments.  

Hard-wired my ass!! I was provided "tools" for life which I use to this day and appreciate hanging w/ people who are positive, honest, loyal and not "full of shit" as so many people tend to be.  As the bumper stickers state "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK" and "TEACH PEACE".  Those of you still ranting about how the Seed f***** you up remind me of "Children of Adult Alcoholics" that can't find anyone to blame but their parents.

Look to this day,
For it is life,
The very life of life.
In its brief course lie all
The realities and verities of existence,
The bliss of growth,
The splendor of action,
The glory of power -

For yesterday is but a dream,
And tomorrow is only a vision,
But today, well lived,
Makes every yesterday a dream
  of happiness
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.

Look well, therefore, to this day.

Sanskrit Proverb
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2004, 07:44:00 AM
Robin :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
Thank you - you are a kind soul
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on November 10, 2004, 09:25:00 AM
Yes Robin...in a perfect world. However sometimes people push each others buttons. The Seed is an emotional issue, and I think this entire Forum community should be proud for the way flames have been handled. If you doubt that, take a look around the Straight or Elan sites.


All one has to do is peruse the history of this site to find most of the flames have come from the "pro" seed side. I have tried to quelch as many as possible from both sides, but it has happened before and it will happen again.

Understanding is the key..in this case someone came along and called all critics "druggies". You must understand that is a hot button, then the daughter jumped to his defense and basically called everyone with a negative memory a liar. On any other forum this would have erupted into a free for all with cursing and personal attacks.


Now, when we were in the seed all critics were called druggies,and if you spoke against anything the seed said or did after you got out you had a druggie attitude and were banished and not spoken to by those connected to the seed.

 Bullshit.  Plain and simple. On this forum all sides will be heard, and no comment by ANYONE is sacred and closed to questioning...and if that type of introspection causes somone to tuck tail and leave...so be it.  All I ask is you leave personal attacks out, but I encourage everyone to vigorously debate the issues.  And yes, if your poppa posts here, his comments are fair game as well.








[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-11-10 06:29 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: GregFL on November 10, 2004, 09:30:00 AM
Nice proverb by the way...

[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-10 07:29 ]
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Robin Martin on November 10, 2004, 09:26:00 PM
Now, when we were in the seed all critics were called druggies,and if you spoke against anything the seed said or did after you got out you had a druggie attitude and were banished and not spoken to by those connected to the seed.


OK - so that was then, this is now.  Obviously there are some people still raw about their time served.  Yes, some people even 'get off' on pushing others buttons, but didn't we learn not to react to "button pushing"?  That is a lesson I practice today. Hmmm, I must still be programmed :wink: .... I don't mind someone flaming about their experiences or even the program - that's why I "keep coming back" but don't appreciate some nitwit attacking anyone personally - know what I mean?
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Robin Martin on November 10, 2004, 09:33:00 PM
p.s.

Didn't mean to delete your "quote" at the top of my page.

p.s.s.

Thank you, the Sanskrit Proverb is one of my favs but it is also p.5 of Hazelden's "Twenty-Four Hours a Day", published by a "cult-catering" publishing company.
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Somejoker on November 11, 2004, 09:31:00 AM
I don't like it either Robin, especially since I am often the target.


 :grin:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: cleveland on November 11, 2004, 10:40:00 AM
Robin, and others who post here, and can tolerate disagreement...

I'm so glad you keep posting, both good and bad. I am really impressed that people who post here can give and take with out getting too bent out of shape. I agree with Greg who posted earlier that this particular forum is more understanding than some of the other groups. I'm glad. I get enough name calling and yelling on Fox!

To tell the truth, some days I hate the Seed and other days...have fond memories. Either way, I have to honor my experience and seek the truth. Confusing sometimes, but OK, that's life. No easy answers.

 :scared:  :smile:  :wave:
Title: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
Post by: Robin Martin on November 12, 2004, 12:20:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-11-11 07:40:00, cleveland wrote:

"Robin, and others who post here, and can tolerate disagreement...



I'm so glad you keep posting, both good and bad. I am really impressed that people who post here can give and take with out getting too bent out of shape. I agree with Greg who posted earlier that this particular forum is more understanding than some of the other groups. I'm glad. I get enough name calling and yelling on Fox!



No doubt!  Thanks for the good words.  Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a "Seed" reunion??  The good, the bad and the ugly?  Can anyone say they wouldn't be happy to see their peers of the year spent in the program?  Whoops...another PIPE DREAM :eek: OK, OK..not EVERYONE...I guess I speak for myself.

What I enjoy the most is that the majority of us seem to be well educated, , technologically  literate and seem to be getting along fine in life.  For those who are still having troubles in this life, seek spiritual, emotional or mental guidance and get well!!  I bid you peace!!